NY 215: HMS Erebus - Game Over!

[davesaz]

Now again can we move on to lynching someone who isn't trying to solve the game? I think we have a much better chance following that path.
You will carefully note that I've avoided going for those who aren't posting at all. My focus is on players who are here and posting but managing to say things while doing nothing positive.

[davesaz]

BTW someone asked me a question much earlier about CT being appeasy. One such example follows.
I had seen this post which was a reply to CT.

I don't like your latest post dave. Given that one of Saudade's stated reasons for voting me was because I alienated myself from other players, it seems obvious he thinks I'm scummy because of that. Also, the other question is one that depends on someone's opinion and that varies with no correct answer, I don't understand how that adds to the game or could change your opinion of a player.

I don't see how asking for clarity is a problem, but you did bring up something i don't think you intended too but I think it pretty important of a point.
He's asking a lot of questions that really have no meaning or impact. As in he's asking questions for the sake of asking questions and not really getting anything from them. That's one of the reasons I found your post 36 a bit scummy.
I just went back through his ISO and noticed close to 75% of his posts are just asking questions.
Some are fine like his 3rd post, but a lot of the questions are just asking people to play more (posts 55-57 for example), and he also asks others for their opinions without really providing much himself (207, 222, and 111).

CT changes his approach to match what Io had just explained as being "how town should be".

As I said earlier, I decided that Lapsa was probably scum and Popo town. I believe this because most scum will not make 98 since it limits their options by making any push on someone other than me in the future suspicious. It would be very odd for someone who really wants me policy lynched to vote another person and they would probably get lynched for not providing content in the late game. However, Lapsa has mostly been wishy-washy in their voting and
have changed their opinions with little reasoning involved. For instance, they seemed to suspect tictac or at the very least didn't like something he said in 53, then suddenly wanted me policy lynched in 73, only to later sheep someone else in 109. They've also made some shitposts like 162 and 181. Overall, they have only shaded people and voted for weak reasons.
VOTE: Lapsa
In addition, I am currently townreading Gamma Emerald because the progression from 77 to 189 seemed natural. Umlaut didn't seem more vulnerable to a lynch than Tictac, so I believe that GE is a town player really trying to sort others.

I see this, and other tonal changes, as adjustments to try to get off the radar.

[davesaz]

If I push other people to follow and they merely sheep me, we're betting the alignment of a player on my read being correct. And I get nothing to base my read on the sheep.
If I ask them to contribute their thoughts on the matter, I get information to read them, and the group read is more likely to be correct than an individual read.

This post is motivated by my role.
I'm not the type of vig who is willing to be leashed, but I sure as hell want consensus on scumreads reads from my townreads.

[Saudade]

funny how all the people that voted dave are not surprised in the slightest that he's not scum/PR claim

[Gamma Emerald]

If I push other people to follow and they merely sheep me, we're betting the alignment of a player on my read being correct. And I get nothing to base my read on the sheep.
If I ask them to contribute their thoughts on the matter, I get information to read them, and the group read is more likely to be correct than an individual read.

This post is motivated by my role.
I'm not the type of vig who is willing to be leashed, but I sure as hell want consensus on scumreads reads from my townreads.

I think you got a small case of word salad there. Rephrase that last part please?

[davesaz]

Plus you're like the only person not doing anything scummy at all.
Therefore you're the only really townie person.

You can be a vig target. At least half the things you're calling scummy aren't, and you're townreading someone for doing absolutely nothing.

Pedit: Lapsa

This is a crumb in the form of trying to scold someone for being really shallow. I don't have Io as a scumread anymore btw...

[Malakittens]

Seems straight forward to me.

I guess maybe that’s because I like being the vig

[davesaz]

@Gamma:
1. no leash accepted. I don't expect a vote on who to kill and won't follow one.
2. Advice accepted, from my town reads only. I'd prioritize a shot they agree on. Though the day flip might flip the table in which case all bets are off.

[davesaz]

funny how all the people that voted dave are not surprised in the slightest that he's not scum/PR claim

Don't know if this observation is very relevant, how many have posted since?
If I've lost count and there are several who have posted, what do you make of it?

[Gamma Emerald]

I played a game as semi-leashed vig once. What I did was I listed my targets and if anyone from the masonry said no to a target I’d switch it out. I think Dave was in that game, albeit temporarily

[davesaz]

Re: 998 I'm rarely comfortable directing traffic this early in a game due to the risk of inadvertently revealing more roles, but yeah having one PR outed does give others an opportunity to leverage it.

[Completly Trustworthy]

I don't understand what tone change you are referring to Dave? Are you saying I stopped asking questions because Io said they thought it was scummy? I don't think that is correct since I didn't stop doing it as posts like 444, 758, and 788 can attest.

Also, you didn't say you wanted Lapsa lynched in 969. What caused you to change your mind?

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m between voting Lapsa and pox7 rn

[davesaz]

@CT to be honest I'd need to do a mountain of work to illustrate what I'm seeing. It's more like I have a mental count of things and you've tipped it.
In a nutshell, you do something, someone calls you on it, you change to match whatever the person who complained wants. Then someone calls you on that so you change to match the new accuser.
I'm not even sure it's scum. It is one thing that some scum do, to try to get by. It's also human nature to some extent. As others have pointed out, sometimes I ping on style.

As of 527 my main reason for scumreading Lapsa had disappeared because he had started doing things to sort.
I'm blatantly prioritizing "not sorting" as a scumtell this game, until something better comes along.
It should not come as a surprise that it's next to impossible to tell a nefarious bad push to get someone mislynched from an honestly believed but totally wrong push from town without some flips.

Gamma, can you please give reasons? I really do need to know more about the why, for obvious reasons.

[Io]

funny how all the people that voted dave are not surprised in the slightest that he's not scum/PR claim

Nothing phases me anymore.
I’ve gotten used to my scummiest read flipping Doc or something.

[davesaz]

Being town enough to avoid lynch while scummy enough to not be NK'd is a very fine line.
The people who try to walk it are usually PR.

[davesaz]

I used to try to hint that I didn't mind being scumread, and all that came of that was the scum knew I was a PR while town had their heads stuck where the sun don't shine.

[popopopopopopo]

Don't know why we're avoiding having any serious wagons. Less than 6 days left to get some votes in motion for analysis later.

Explain why scum!me doesn't just let town circle jerk themselves into a no-lynch? At this point there were something like 4 wagons with 2 votes if memory serves. Unless that state was a little earlier...

Pedit:
Gamma I don't give a shit what your definition is. Keep it up and you're my leading candidate for the extra bullet. This kind of bullshit has no place in mafia and it's another reason that towns lose.

lol we were never going to no lynch

[Nosferatu]

UNVOTE:
ok
i mightve been wrong
this is good.

[Nosferatu]

leashing the vig sucks btw dont do that let dave shoot who he wants

[Garmr]

UNVOTE: dave

Taking bets Dave hits town

[Nosferatu]

+1

he'll probably shoot ct or popo

maaybe hugo

[Nosferatu]

YOU KNOW WHAT

imma say garmr is town this game

[Gamma Emerald]

Do I detect a scumbloc

[Saudade]

I'd say lynch CT shoot Nosferatu but dave is his own woman