Open 735: Watchmen Wanted - Game Over!


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Post Post #586 (isolation #0) » Thu Sep 06, 2018 12:36 pm

Post by Nauci »

WELL HOWDY Y'ALL (☞゚∀゚)☞

Oh man I'm kinda bummed I didn't roll scum w/ tw and/or irrelephant; I was hoping so hard

This looks like an awfully fun crowd

Give me a couple of days to catch up mmmkay?
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Post Post #588 (isolation #1) » Thu Sep 06, 2018 12:39 pm

Post by Nauci »

In post 587, the worst wrote:
THIS DOESNT LOOK LIKE TOWN NAUCI
You're lucky I can't swap back to that avatar right now ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
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Post Post #589 (isolation #2) » Thu Sep 06, 2018 12:40 pm

Post by Nauci »

VOTE: Irrelephant11 on principle/policy. Personal policy. (´・ω・`)
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Post Post #609 (isolation #3) » Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:16 pm

Post by Nauci »

In post 601, the worst wrote:OOF so glad I pagetopped that

town!Nauci is a force of nature though
Recently I'd been a bit of a wet blanket because I overcommitted myself and forgot about some travel (well, that, and I rolled a protective role so I lurked my way into staying alive in a game that just ended)

But I'm back, baby, so lord I hope you're actually town with me this time because you know I'll put the screws to ya without hesitation
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Post Post #610 (isolation #4) » Thu Sep 06, 2018 4:16 pm

Post by Nauci »

If I get shot tonight

someone was probably trying to frame TW :lol:
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Post Post #630 (isolation #5) » Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:14 pm

Post by Nauci »

I'd never actually seen town worst before

It's distinctive
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Post Post #631 (isolation #6) » Thu Sep 06, 2018 8:23 pm

Post by Nauci »

I see that NSG is afk or VLA or somesuch

No time to read the game yet but I have her ISO a skim and this is town NSG by a continent or so
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Post Post #658 (isolation #7) » Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:39 am

Post by Nauci »

Lol Irrelephant I love that you also check for daychat every time

It feels like it should make a huge difference to use because we used it so much but most scum threads I see are kinda tumbleweeds
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Post Post #659 (isolation #8) » Fri Sep 07, 2018 11:47 am

Post by Nauci »

In post 656, the worst wrote:don't feel bad baby elephant
some people really really struggle with reading me
some totally do not xD
Grab 1.75g of dry oolong tea leaves

Scatter into a baking sheet

Shake for more than 2s but less than 4.4s

If it forms a vaguely duck-like shape, he's town
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Post Post #670 (isolation #9) » Fri Sep 07, 2018 6:11 pm

Post by Nauci »

In post 668, the worst wrote:
In post 659, Nauci wrote:
In post 656, the worst wrote:don't feel bad baby elephant
some people really really struggle with reading me
some totally do not xD
Grab 1.75g of dry oolong tea leaves

Scatter into a baking sheet

Shake for more than 2s but less than 4.4s

If it forms a vaguely duck-like shape, he's town
i used lapsang souchong
are we in trouble
Unclear; best to consult with the mod
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Post Post #686 (isolation #10) » Fri Sep 07, 2018 10:31 pm

Post by Nauci »

No idea if this post will actually succeed

Having internet problems and even my Verizon 4G service is unstable and I'm getting insane packet loss

༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ gief intarnats pls ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
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Post Post #725 (isolation #11) » Sat Sep 08, 2018 10:25 am

Post by Nauci »

Not even remotely caught up (I'm at like post 52) but VOTE: Keyser Söze until I'm done because like dayum
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Post Post #736 (isolation #12) » Sat Sep 08, 2018 1:57 pm

Post by Nauci »

I got roped into a concert for the rest of the day sowwy!
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Post Post #787 (isolation #13) » Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:08 pm

Post by Nauci »

Damn it's been a surprisingly busy weekend

Keyser I hope you're right about your improved self awareness!
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Post Post #831 (isolation #14) » Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:25 am

Post by Nauci »

Lordy

Tryhardrrelephant came out to play!

I've been dealing with some personal shit :< also headed out to an eye appointment. Taking my laptop just in case I can still read a screen with my pupils dilated in the afternoon ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I swear to God it's like the whole world is against me being on MS this week; I've been modding via occasional 4G signal in bathrooms
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Post Post #832 (isolation #15) » Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:25 am

Post by Nauci »

Excited to see what has NSG down there for you hmm
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Post Post #833 (isolation #16) » Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:27 am

Post by Nauci »

Jk I called and they said I won't be able to read a screen at all for the 4-24 hours dilation may last QQ
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Post Post #916 (isolation #17) » Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:18 pm

Post by Nauci »

Making progress

and not changing my vote; actually if anything I feel worse about Keyser at this point
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Post Post #917 (isolation #18) » Tue Sep 11, 2018 2:55 pm

Post by Nauci »

Spoiler: word vomit of reactions and feelings from reading the first 200 posts
-GameNBurger’s math posts are funny. This setup is very obvious: claim if you’ve seen something, or don’t claim otherwise because dying w/ no results is mostly meaningless because someone else takes over, ya? And not seeing anyone not visit doesn’t green check? And there’s no reason to ever hold on to a red check because someone else takes over when the watcher is shot.

-NSG’s 27 is awesome. I’ve never even thought of it like that: questioning someone’s townread on me for bad premises seemed natural but yeah, it totally is counter productive unless it’s because it’s scum-motivated, like if TW town reads me from now on so as not to instigate the wrath I’m apparently capable of with 1600 word posts dunking on him

-Something about Keyser’s page 1/2 posts feel like they come from a scum-making-town-sounding-posts POV… Like Keyser is perfectly capable of asking poignant questions that sound productive early in day 1. The lurker question is a classic topic to look productive without being necessarily productive, and is a topic that can often drag the game into a quagmire of debate that demotivates town

-I had the same reaction as Irrelephant’s 41 mao

-Keyser’s 42 seems very paranoid. I thought it was clear that Irrelephant asked because Keyser’s initial reaction to Sesq’s post was interpreting a lot that the rest of us may not have inferred, and therefore implied Keyser knew sesq better than we did from experience. All of his posts thus far feel like they come from a non-cohesive mindset, versus lacking information and trying to make reads. 51 makes it worse.

-I don’t really understand my predecessor’s posts in both sentiment and syntax

-Don’t agree with Reundo’s 46 but town lean for it

-god it’s hard to keep track of who’s who with multi replace slots

-Keyser you better get better like you promised because I’m at 102 and just keep feeling worse about your thought process; IIRC your town game with us was productive when scum read, not so defensive. Before anyone criticizes me for scum reading the content of those posts: I’m not. It’s a combination of tone and progression and pace that makes me feel very uncomfortable about what POV could generate that

-Rreundo’s 103 is good, in both content and the motivations I glean from it

-I’ll probably end up going into detail about my thoughts on Keyser at some point post catch up

-volxen 104 felt more posturing than genuine, like out of all of the content thus far that’s the only genuine sounding commentary they could squeeze out

-irrelephant it feels like you’re more aggressive this game :o I don’t know what it means yet but I’m curious how you play in a game I wasn’t in

-I feel like gamenburger meant to say “this is never scum” or something in 108? I thought he was saying that he was town read a lot for his high effort play style, but then he says he did it and people said “this is never town” as if he’s scum for it? But then he criticizes it by saying scum on this site tend to be lazy and therefore scum can coast with high effort IIOA, so he told everyone to not town read him for effort? That had to be have been a typo, right? I agree with the sentiment though and it’s why I run around joining games with Irrelephant just to tell everyone not to town read him for just high effort posting. Has only really post his philosophy of town play/scum hunting though, and nothing alignment indicative

-I have surprisingly little grasp of Ausuka’s tone and thought process after reading 111 what the hell; my only reaction is maybe a wiff of ausuka/keyser association

-can everyone just stop misspelling laissez faire just as a favor to me pretty please tia

-unless it’s a brazen gamble I don’t think Keyser and ausuka are scum together? But I don’t know Keyser’s scum range. Must investigate

-lock towning on Reundo after 119; explain in reads list later maybe

-121 Keyser what? It makes perfect sense that Dunn would address every instance he’s been mentioned thus far before posting his current scum read

-volxen’s 123 has somehow made me feel really bad about him but also Keyser. I hope they’re scum buddies and this is 2 birds 1 stone!

-126 is weird; I would have thought Keyser is far too experienced to think there’s no point to baiting empty vote reactions as if they’re not alignment indicative

-134 disagree with Keyser here. Irrelephant’s posts name dropping Dunn were all “waiting for Dunn to post” which isn’t really content that can be engaged directly

-148 from volxen is so strange; why this focus on Keyser not in a way that sorts the people reading Keyser but rather undermines scum reads on Keyser? Like, I defend people I think are town all the time and even in similar ways, but not until I actually think they’re definitely town which I didn’t think had happened

-150 reundo wagon makes me very uncomfortable

-Toranga’s posts seem towny, even if I disagree a lot I can see why he would react the way he did if he’s town

-170 I was worried about nsg for a spell but I think this is, in fact, townsg

-don’t have any read on Kop at all

-I’ve got very little read on e but the nonchalant apathy feels non-scum, maybe even tpr
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Post Post #927 (isolation #19) » Tue Sep 11, 2018 6:14 pm

Post by Nauci »

In post 924, Eragon wrote:
In post 725, Nauci wrote:Not even remotely caught up (I'm at like post 52) but VOTE: Keyser Söze until I'm done because like dayum
In post 916, Nauci wrote:Making progress

and not changing my vote; actually if anything I feel worse about Keyser at this point
why do you think keyser is scum?

is it the posts you pointed out in your wall or is it something else?

if its something else, what is it?
After reading the first 200 posts I have a narrative/idea of keyser's motivations and narrative that feels extremely plausibly scum to me and I noted a lot of which posts made me feel that way, but since I have over 600 posts to still read, I didn't bother to write up the case yet because it could change or have stronger data points. Plus, I want to finish reading before I do the necessary deep dives to test my hypotheses.

I feel strongly that Reundo is town from the first 200 posts, that Keyser is coming from a scum POV, and the rest I'll develop as I finish reading

Leaving the notes in raw form to hurry the process along, but posting them so that you guys can read my reactions and thought processes and therefore form reads on me. Convincing you guys of my reads will happen afterwards and in a much more organized manner (pretty similarly to what I did in presidents, IMO, except apparently a lot of people didn't even read my glorious wall posts that I so carefully wrote and formatted and annotated >:C).
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Post Post #962 (isolation #20) » Wed Sep 12, 2018 3:57 pm

Post by Nauci »

In post 950, Irrelephant11 wrote:yeah I'm actually pretty interested in a Nauci flip
No you're not
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Post Post #963 (isolation #21) » Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:01 pm

Post by Nauci »

Damnit I knew I had set a new bar for myself with the American Presidents game lmao

Whether or not I format a post depends on how much time I have on my hands and if I am on my phone or my laptop or not, actually; don't rely on shallow tells like that IMO but then again I've not played scum enough to know what tells for myself would be hmmmmmmm

Irrelephant it's totally bizarre that you'd say you want to see my flip before I've even put more content into the thread; my flip wouldn't even generate any associatives. What? Is this more reaction testing?
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Post Post #980 (isolation #22) » Wed Sep 12, 2018 6:27 pm

Post by Nauci »

In post 972, Toranaga wrote:there's nothing creepy about monty python

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Post Post #981 (isolation #23) » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:32 pm

Post by Nauci »

Okay sorry for the delay; I've had so many things pop up unexpectedly lately

Spoiler: musings and ramblings and notes and reactions for posts 200-399
- irrelephant - I read that as him accusing you of not being willing to engage with him directly because ???, but if your interpretation is correct then it’s a great catch

-That feel when I realize I forgot during my previous catch up (which happened in several phases/days when I could find time) that e and volxen were already flipped

- Reundo continues to make posts that have the organic town thought processes that would be incredibly difficult for scum to make; I am about as confident about this town read as I was on day 1 skitter in American Presidents; I don’t think I’ve *ever* been wrong on one of my very strong early town reads all the way back to my first newbie game, to the point where I play later days as a matter of convincing my strongest town read of my other town/scum reads

- need to check if town Keyser sheeps like this, so late on a wagon (and something about :twisted: rubs me the wrong way)

- feels like Town Kop based on what little research I did during a recent game; 226 even better. IIRC Kop is less opinionated and less active in his scum games, and certainly not with these sorts of opinions

- etc. I keep being paranoid that scum nsg is sitting in my blind spot or something but no, these posts are almost certainly town nsg (there’s a certain… righteous indignation in the way town nsg writes, and she applies shrewd thinking to details other players wouldn’t ever think of that town nsg has, while scum nsg tends to be very lurky and have more shallow views because she struggles to fake it as scum). My notes app really needs to stop autocorrecting me to “msg” lmao

- the only thing that has troubled my gut scum read of Keyser is the way volxen repeatedly championed his cause lol; it feels crazy that scum would chainsaw this hard on day 1 but that doesn’t seem like a solid argument so much as something I could never imagine doing

- I don’t think I have any chance of reading toranga w/o meta diving :/

-- feels town from Dunn; I think scum don’t question a fast wagon on town OR a fast wagon on scum because it can be an obvious associative, but town with genuine interest in game solving will hit the brakes on a potential early mislynch

- was super paranoid about irrelephant as per usual but I’m leaning town; break down the psychology of my read post catch up. Disagree on Keyser’s vote but obviously I’m “biased” since I’ve seen sesq’s role pm say town

- is so hilariously shallow that I have to dive volxen to see how far he goes into underlying nefarious associations as scum. But this just seems like standard panic-scum BUT THINK OF THE LURKERS

-town reading ausuka because of the timing of her volxen vote

- whaaaaaaaaaaaa? Who :o :o :o Ducky I hate when you bluff secretive knowledge it feels so scummy when you do that; I don’t actually know what you do as town though lmao

- nsg is basically lock town for me at this point

- based on how scum tw has treated teammates in the past, tw being scum with any of those 3 is highly plausible if anyone in the set flips red

- nsg calls e town (pre flip obviously) when the slot could easily have been pushed for mislynch for somewhat weird activity, and far easier than many other players in the game

-/ agreed here

- I like this analysis post though I don’t quite agree

- I feel good about; I’ll give Keyser some room to breathe for the next 200 posts

- totally off topic from what Ausuka is saying but Ghandi used to sleep naked with teenaged women and give them enemas I wish I was making this up

- tbh I have no explanation for my gut feel but this seems like a town post

- is another great post. Reundo is my new Skitter. This post absolutely nailed it and I couldn’t have written up the case on Volxen and his apparent motivations better myself. 392 is also MathDino level

- Huntress is awesome and so were these reads

- based on vc 1.13 I want to say that I don’t know how I feel about the sesq wagon but am going to re-skim for who became complacent/quiet after the cw popped up (sadly, this is most relevant to Volxen)


omg there's a button to add [post] tags I'd been manually typing them for all of my stuff before (though that was on desktop where I wrote them up in Sublime; currently having to juggle back and forth between my laptops and phone via Google Keep so shit's a mess sorry)
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Post Post #982 (isolation #24) » Wed Sep 12, 2018 7:33 pm

Post by Nauci »

I'll finish the next 200 tonight but no promises on the rest sorry
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Post Post #983 (isolation #25) » Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:49 pm

Post by Nauci »

Spoiler: hot takes and notations from 400-599
-400-403 makes me lean town on toranga; swung momentum on volxen more than tw did

-413 oh man I wanted to town lean irrelephant for this but this is also precisely the kind of towny sounding bit that irrelephant can contrive

-reundo did so much of the heavy lifting from beginning to end on volxen I don’t understand how anyone has him in their possible-scum piles

-418 I extremely want to see Irrelephant’s explanation for this one

-419 I like this from dragon

-425 eragon I realize people apparently disagree with me here but from my memory, it’s definitely not how Keyser posts typically and felt off for me

-429 Keyser wat

-430 oh okay

-438 irrelephant I feel like the words you scum read him for in that game were much less meaningful and syntax based, while this is different

-446 lmao volxen I’ve never seen anything that made me want someone lynched as much as this post

-457 lmao ducky

-472 Lordy you younguns have too many Pokémon these days

-491 eragon this is good stuff

-508 is this trying to wifom bait to take reundo down with him? Hmm

-532 irrelephant it depends on how much resistance there was to the wagons, among other factors, IMO

-540 lol toranga. Nobody on this site *except* TW would be enthusiastic like that about bussing d1. But bluffs and extravagantly WIFOM actions are where Scum Worst eats.

-543 the last bit feeds into my pet theory of the POV narrative for Keyser which I’ll explain in my eventual case

-554 it’s like Reundo is presciently pocketing me :o

-564 keyser this is such a weird request I don’t even know how to process this

-567 keyser pls

-582 lol reundo ty but I think I have a surprisingly strong sort just after reading day 1

-583 TW hahahahhaahaa <3

-592 I have to go do some chores but I am salivating to read this case oh gee oh boy

Damnit reundo ARE YOU IN MY HEAD because you said a lot of the stuff I am preparing in my case possibly better than I could have

Like Keyser was unbelievably careful to not interact with Volxen while Volxen was non stop chain sawing. Like it was clearly beyond the point of “woah why are you scum reading this hard it seems implausible” and beyond even “I think keyser is town so I disagree with this read” but fully into actively trying to undermine points against keyser for motivations that make no sense at all. It seemed too ridiculous to be true but since he is a low experience player, it’s not that insane.

It makes no sense to me why keyser wouldn’t call him out on his obsession or, at the very least, blatant attempts to pocket, OR the issues with his posting that town keyser 100% would have called out based on my experience with him. If this was town keyser I seriously couldn’t fathom in the slightest how he doesn’t call out the gross pocketing

Plus, he was voting volxen when it was a good way to not be on the town wagon, but volxen’s had lost steam. But when Toranga threw the momentum back on it and other players joined, it would have been completely weird for him to switch off for almost any reason he could think of at the time, when only maybe 2 players in the game were plausibly lynchbaity and not enough so to explain the move. Giving himself credit for not moving off wagon day 2 was just open wolfing at this point I can’t take this seriously any more lol

I’ll go into more detail later but like literally 97% of Keyser’s posts fit into a completely cohesive narrative of navigating this game as scum Keyser. Like I can build a post by post narration of the thought process I am 96% sure of as of post 543, and will probably take the time to grab some bits from his previous games to round out the thesis.

I am so ecstatic that the player I had declared lock town by his 3rd post (not even jokingly) has thrown down almost exactly the same case that I have been accruing omg. From here on I’m basically searching for the 3rd scum, who right now is plausibly irrelephant to me right now with a couple of other longer shots like TW


Looks like the next 200 aren't that substantive so I might be able to finish catching up tonight? But it's already like 1 AM. I've been sleeping at a normal schedule when the sun is down every day for like 2 weeks now for the first time in literally >5 years but lord am I tempted to fuck that up by deep diving Keyser games until 5 AM like an idiot
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Post Post #984 (isolation #26) » Wed Sep 12, 2018 8:55 pm

Post by Nauci »

Quick and dirty reads list before I head into the 600s

Skitter Tier
:

Reundo - Bellaphant of the ball
nsg - this is so outside of scumsg range and definitely in burned-out-townsg range

You know what? You's alright
:

Toranga
Eragon
Ausuka

Wouldn’t bet on these
:

Dunnstral
The worst

Naughty little boys and well actually just boys
:

Keyser
Irrelephant
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Post Post #987 (isolation #27) » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:19 pm

Post by Nauci »

Everyone who is/was scum reading Reundo: why? tl;dr me?
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Post Post #988 (isolation #28) » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:20 pm

Post by Nauci »

In post 986, Toranaga wrote:is burnt-out-town range nsg not in nsg's scum range?

is she that easy to read?

I mean she a style that's suitable for wolfing, you know

oh well
honestly yeah nsg is really easy to read lol; she just puts in way more effort as town than scum and hate hate hate hates scumming

and this is the most effort I've seen her put into a game in the last several months (there's like at least one scum pt where like her only post is a "why can't I ever roll town" complaint
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Post Post #989 (isolation #29) » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:21 pm

Post by Nauci »

I was in a newbie game with NSG and have seen several of her town games after that. She escalates towniness with a fury so scumlurking isn't her meta, except that all of her games are relatively low energy right now
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Post Post #993 (isolation #30) » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:32 pm

Post by Nauci »

I realize it was a while back, but just check out this ISO

versus scum nsg:

Subject: Micro 817: Mafia PT
northsidegal wrote:i just want to be town :cry:
replaced out

viewtopic.php?p=10367782&user_select%5B ... #p10367782

Subject: Mini Normal 2024 Mafia Thread
northsidegal wrote:uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuggh why cant i just be town
Shallow reads/lurking into replace out

Subject: American Presidents, the War Room Mafia PT
northsidegal wrote:sigh
lurk then replace out :< :< :<

Man, NSG, I'm sorry about this crap luck rolling scum so many times in such a short time.

I think her town games aren't nearly so high effort right now but, as seen above, her scum games are far lower still.
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Post Post #994 (isolation #31) » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:34 pm

Post by Nauci »

In 2024 she kinda weighed in a little on a lurker discussion, threw out a town read on me based on previous games/events/discussions, and showed no hint of really reading the thread/thinking about each post, which she definitely does here
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Post Post #996 (isolation #32) » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:36 pm

Post by Nauci »

In post 985, Toranaga wrote:that just feels wrong to me

I'll read the game later but irrelephant and keyser as scum? wow

maybe I'm a dumbass but that's completely opposite to my reads
I think that I'm only able to come to these reads because I know the two players and read everyone on a narrative/psychological basis. If I didn't, I'd absolutely have them in my town basket because they are very good and very active players who have all the usual hallmarks of town mannerisms.

My case on Keyser will expound on Reundo's but I think I'll hold off on Irrelephant because there's a whole lot more interaction I want to do there to test my hypotheses
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Post Post #998 (isolation #33) » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:48 pm

Post by Nauci »

If you want to see the breadth of Irrelephant's scumrange, read our 17 page scum pt for a 9 player newbie game lol (I was a jerk and lurked out because I also struggle with motivation when I roll scum but fortunately it's been super rare)

He purposely makes typos, very super softly scum reads but then defends me because he's hyper aware of associations and pocketing opportunities, specs out every possible role claim and fake claim and optimal night kill, and cases tons of players in the game thread with such expertise that it carried the lurking of me and all of my replacements through to a flawless victory without ever having to even bus my slot. Everyone swore up and down that he was their only sure town read until the very end, when he backstabbed his biggest supporters lol.

In American Presidents I poked and prodded Irrelephant for like 80 pages before I finally stopped scum reading or being paranoid about him and town read him, but even after that I had to neapolitan check him just to be totally sure (and more importantly to assuage the paranoia that I fed to Skitter early on about Irrelephant). But it does mean I do think I can read him fairly well, and that declaring so actually makes his responses more telling. :o

Irrelephant are you tired of me joining your games and putting you through all this yet
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Post Post #1000 (isolation #34) » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:54 pm

Post by Nauci »

In post 997, Toranaga wrote:man irrelephant iirc cased the fuck out of volxen d1

it just feels not svs
Hmm.

Actually thank you for pointing this out; most of my feelings on irrelephant were based on his interactions with keyser and largely near deadline. I didn't realize how early he pushed volxen fairly hard for that reads list post, and this changes my view significantly.

I'll finish catch up and rethink things. I mean, I've had an overwhelming scum case for people before and been dead wrong (mathblade in team mafia tiebreaker, blackvoid in american presidents), etc., so I'll be doing a lot of keyser meta diving before I really push there, but I wasn't at all familiar with BV's range tbh.
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Post Post #1001 (isolation #35) » Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:00 pm

Post by Nauci »

Partial completion of my 600+ catch up also makes me doubt my irrelephant read so I'll have to rethink who's the 3rd scum (plenty of room for it to be dunn or tw but those require more research)
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Post Post #1002 (isolation #36) » Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:05 pm

Post by Nauci »

Toranga what did mean
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Post Post #1003 (isolation #37) » Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:10 pm

Post by Nauci »

It's entirely dependent on the game and context, but I find that townrrelephant is more casual, more "adhd" and likely to jump around, empty vote, provoke reactions, test stuff, make more scummy posts in service of those goals, and just generally spend a lot of time being paranoid. I tend to come to totally different reads from townrrelephant.

Scumrrelephant was more opportunistic about scum reads, fishes out possible mislynch pursuits in question form (instead of scumreading outright, he'll ask "what do you think about <player>'s <action>?" or "hmmm <posts> could be scummy" or "this pinged me" and only go into it when he has the temperature of the room. He's meticulous about having a towny post style (and since this didn't apply before he ever knew I'd be in the game to undermine it, it's making me worry less about him).
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Post Post #1004 (isolation #38) » Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:13 pm

Post by Nauci »

In post 657, Irrelephant11 wrote:My last thought (about Toranaga) got me thinking about how the wagon on volxen happened and I went back and found this
In post 399, the worst wrote:hot take: we need to hammer Sesq who will do nothing to defend themselves or flashwagon volxen who is one rung townier and will become extremely obvious later if scum

:]
Which, given scum don't have day chat, is VERY INTERESTING.
If volxen "will become extremely obvious later if scum", why be concerned about lynching him now? (wagon movement was still more toward sesq, who tw says here is scummier)
Unless
he's trying to hint to his scum buddy that it's time to bus

Toranaga immediately followed it up with the move to vote volxen, which tw followed. Tor has tried to claim towncred for them both this game day, and has since lampshaded "inb4 partners" which, admittedly, would be bold, but would also make anyone who called them partners look a little silly

Any thoughts on this? tw has come across as feeling v towny in tone but I can't get over the combo of
-GNB's weirdness
-volxen's long, drawn out nullread of the slot
-tw's TMI of the lynch

And then Toranaga
-Has directed attention off-wagon without reasoning
-Has lots of interactions with tw that are really very friendly and (significantly) once tw joined the game Tor was much more interested in playing

Tor was also pretty scummy last game day imo (see: Keyser's case, which was mostly ignored?)

Thoughts anyone? They happen to both be independently possible scum but ISO the two of them + GNB and see if you see what I see

For now I'll start with VOTE: Toranaga

pedit: hi sorry :lol:
this is townrrelephant–final answer
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Post Post #1005 (isolation #39) » Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:16 pm

Post by Nauci »

In post 665, Toranaga wrote:-Has lots of interactions with tw that are really very friendly and (significantly) once tw joined the game Tor was much more interested in playing

I like how enjoying to play with certain people is scummy to you irrelephant :P
hahahahhaahhahaa

See all of irrelephant and I's interactions in american presidents or mini normal 2024 or here for why I'm giggling
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Post Post #1007 (isolation #40) » Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:27 pm

Post by Nauci »

Hmm I have very little read on Dunn

Are and your only reasons for that town read
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Post Post #1009 (isolation #41) » Wed Sep 12, 2018 10:41 pm

Post by Nauci »

Subject: Mini Normal 2024 - Endgame
Toranaga wrote:yeah I checked NSG's ISO before replacing in and, never seeing her scum game before but also never seeing her lurk this hard as town I was guessing this would be a red role PM. turns out I'm town which works great for me cause wolfing is... painful

I'm going out in a bit so I can't read the thread rn
Subject: Mini Normal 2024 - Endgame
Toranaga wrote:
In post 1083, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Creature, where did DDL go from your scum reads?

Toranaga, you replaced into a slot, thinking it would be a scum slot, even though you dislike playing scum?
yeah I enjoy the challenge of subbing in late regardless, I just thought this had a >rand chance of landing on scum
Subject: Mini Normal 2024 - Endgame
Toranaga wrote:IDK anything and I'm just suggesting but that drdolittle ISO is an absolute garbage fire and deserves death
Lmao the amount of lamp shading and WIFOM bait is hilarious. (DDL was the 3rd scum that game) Toranga you put up a hell of a scum game; not sure if anyone but Krazy would have caught you that game

Toranga is capable of not just bussing but casing his teammates and I have no doubt that he can plan to confidently claim town credit for doing so and rescind my town lean
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Post Post #1013 (isolation #42) » Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:14 pm

Post by Nauci »

lol toranga please don't take this the wrong way but I have a feeling that you're a fully capable scum who gets lynched just because your overall tone tends to be easy to push lynches on a subconscious level versus clear actions and signs :o
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Post Post #1015 (isolation #43) » Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:21 pm

Post by Nauci »

Spoiler: mad ramblings on 600-799
- dw ducky; boutta become Florence to scum’s South Carolina

- while I find the observation/post towny, I soft disagree

- looks towny

- I think town nsg frequently jumps onto wagons to add pressure tbh, and then takes the reaction data to make sharp observations later on. I tend to give nsg space earlier on because her reads become more confident and sharp later into the game. But the observations she’s done already are out of her scum range IMO. I’ve seen her lurk through multiple scum games and replace out of others but never fake substantive observations (except maybe the time Math wrote ones for her to post lol)

- is good; I think I gave ausuka way too much town credit for the timing of her vote on volxen. At the same time, specifically because I have sesq’s role pm, makes her town even though I can understand the suspicion from other slots

- oh dear. Scum Worst loooooves to make vague “this pings me” posts and make up the basis for them later; it’s like a Rorschach test he administers to actual town in the game lol

- glad ausuka doesn’t respond to the duckster Rorschach (at least not yet)

- keyser this wasn’t a super scummy post until you started confidently assigning motivations to volxen’s posts

- I like this ausuka post but almost entirely because of the “pooped up” typo ㋡

- okay this post is actually pretty townrrelephant; after our newbie game I would be shocked if irrelephant ever failed to take into account scum having day chat or not and factoring two much scum and coordinate here. Following up on a previous read because of this though is a very in depth read that I think only a townrrelephant very eager to solve the game makes.

- lol Tw/keyser is my pet theory if it’s not irrelephant lol so :popcorn: let’s see where this goes

- tw I’ve seen you make this post as scum like twice lmao

- this is townrrelephant, final answer

Probably wrong, but 100% a townrrelephant thought process to go this deep into almost tin foil hat territory but in a thoroughly explored thought process of someone very determined to figure out the game

- keyser why does that “townie who towned in Townville” bit sound so… condescending? THat’s not the right word hmmm. It’s almost… resentful? Bitter? But only slightly.

- Image

- toranga I thought it was super obvious that ausuka was voting volxen after a particularly scummy post from him or case on him, but I honestly didn’t see reason for sesq except that she maybe just wanted to add momentum to the wagon to sort him. I think the combination of the 2 switches isn’t as telling as you think but it’s not totally meritless.

- ooooooo ausuka’s reaction to the scum reads isn’t doing her favors

-// are town. Ausuka is going in the town bucket 100%. Explain later

-all of the rest of these posts look like townspew too. Also evasive is like the most perfect word for scum worst’s style wow

- NSG the worst does all kind of shenanigans interactions with his partners totally publicly. Agreed on wrt scum theatre though. Also on the misery wrt Kop

- this can be town worst probably. Scum worst knows waaaay better than to provoke my wrath by posting about worrying if I’m scum, and probably wouldn’t have decided this is town ausuka

- not if there are multiple really towny players because it becomes better to gamble on the 1/3 chance of being seen than leaving all 3 power players in the game (3 being an arbitrary number selected for illustration purposes)

- toranga stop flipping around on Dunn dangit. It’s never done for a very good reason either; more because of what other people say

- irrelephant this shit is why I love playing w/ you


Mmk it's 3 AM so I'mma stop now but here's my preliminary listicle:

Town bucket:

reundo
nsg


irrelephant
ausuka


Lynch candidates:

Eragon (lurked all of d2; more research needed)
the worst (could swing either way; every other post pings me as towny or scummy)
toranga
(nothing I previously townread for is out of toranga's scum range. More research needed)
dunnstral
(come play with us I don't even have anythihng to read you on)
keyser
(I'm going to need several hours of free time to get this case ready; don't want to screw it up like I did BV)
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Post Post #1018 (isolation #44) » Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:26 pm

Post by Nauci »

rofl my notes were written chronologically while I read the thread but I was skipping randomly to respond in real time so my read on toranga and some others will make no sense after my previous posts hahahahaha

deal with it I'm tired t(-.-t)
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Post Post #1019 (isolation #45) » Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:31 pm

Post by Nauci »

In post 1017, Toranaga wrote:in b4 all 5 of your lynch candidates are town and it's just ausuka and NSG
I've been wrong about my scum reads (but also dunked lots of scum), but I've never been wrong about my strong townreads to my knowledge.
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Post Post #1020 (isolation #46) » Wed Sep 12, 2018 11:33 pm

Post by Nauci »

are you happy now ducky

I think I dropped like 3k words just for the rough and terse catch up notes
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Post Post #1046 (isolation #47) » Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:59 am

Post by Nauci »

In post 1037, Irrelephant11 wrote:lol not what I meant
I don't mean "he was really bad at playing scum" which is sorta true but you live and learn, whatever
I mean "the way he played scum was pretty textbook and I think his associations are going to be more helpful than the average flipped scum, so we don't need to get weird/paranoid with the lynch"
The most important part of volxen's ISO is that he had spent a lot of time reading mafia theory and guides on the wiki, so we can make some safe assumptions about his play style being based on the things mhsmith et all have written about scumming, associatives, etc., IMO.
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Post Post #1047 (isolation #48) » Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:00 am

Post by Nauci »

In post 1039, Keyser Söze wrote:@Nauci - what does ‘scum The Worst’ look like in your own words?
Okay first of all I already wrote a book on this in american presidents. Second, I wrote a relatively detailed note on every instance I had a reaction to something TW post and why, so just go read those.
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Post Post #1049 (isolation #49) » Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:05 am

Post by Nauci »

In post 1042, Irrelephant11 wrote:volxen associations:
- RVS votes GNB[tw]
- He parrots NSG's (without mentioning nsg) "why say not to townread yourself?" case on GNB[tw]
- He shades Sesq[Nauci] for poorly scumcasing Keyser
- He continues to argue with GNB[tw] and answers Ausuka's question about GNB[tw]
- Asks 2.718[Huntress] if he's still scumreading Keyser
- Answers Toranaga's question about GNB[tw] ("I'm nullreading him")
- He townreads Keyser for weak reasons; nullreads nsg in few words; nullreads GNB[tw] in very many words; scumreads 2.718[Huntress] with his most in-depth thought processes yet. His reasons for the scumread are:
> Misrepping Keyser
> Siding with Reundo against Keyser
> Townreading Reundo with poor reasoning
-
Tries to direct attention off his slot by pointing at lurkers. Namely: 2.718[Huntress], Toranaga, and Sesq.
Notably, part of his scumread of Tor is that Tor thinks scum is in 2.718[Huntress]/volxen/sesq. I think this is somewhat clearing for Tor (in addition to the towncred he does actually deserve for the volxen lynch) because I don't think their scum play here was to name each other in their lynchbait lists.
- Reiterates his scumreads from his previous posts. Also says Reundo/Keyser is either t/t or s/t (Keyser being town either way)
- says hi to the worst (not really indicative, I'm just being thorough)
- He answers nsg's question about knowing the worst ("yes")
& - continues to talk about nsg, this time about his experience with mafia and mafiascum.
- Becomes the fourth vote on sesq
- Welcomes Huntress
- Helps sesq try to unvote
- Welcomes Eragon
- Claims watcher in response to me
- Tries to shift wagon movement back to sesq in response to me
- Shades Reundo for attacking Keyser one more time after his lynch is inevitable
Even as a spectator without the obvious bias of being in the slot, my reaction to these associatives that feels strong is that he didn't try to throw the heat off of himself and onto a teammate, so Toranga (and I) are clear. I don't see a world where inexperienced scum would do that, tbh.
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Post Post #1054 (isolation #50) » Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:14 am

Post by Nauci »

whdn my cat stops aggressively snuggling me ill refute the nsg case im very sure shes town
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Post Post #1056 (isolation #51) » Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:16 am

Post by Nauci »

In post 1053, Toranaga wrote:dunn is totally scum, his ISO is horrible
this is like your 9th flip on dunn case him properly or stop flipping
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Post Post #1057 (isolation #52) » Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:16 am

Post by Nauci »

In post 1055, Irrelephant11 wrote:I mean I would love if nsg would come refute the nsg case
i woujld love for us to not lynch town tia
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Post Post #1066 (isolation #53) » Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:40 am

Post by Nauci »

If you have Reundo in your potential scum list after he built and sustained the volxen wagon from beginning to end with posts that ooze with town play then you trippin' dawg
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Post Post #1067 (isolation #54) » Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:41 am

Post by Nauci »

I mean unless you find me a scum game from reundo where his entire day 1 is hard casing one of his partners, he's my only NEVER LYNCH
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Post Post #1069 (isolation #55) » Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:43 am

Post by Nauci »

Mmkay. Have my caffeine, got my notes out, let's get crackalackin
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Post Post #1072 (isolation #56) » Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:47 am

Post by Nauci »

P.S. The Eragon slot is like hard gliding right under everyone's radar and that should bother all of y'all a lot
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Post Post #1076 (isolation #57) » Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:52 am

Post by Nauci »

Eragon is the new Errant
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Post Post #1088 (isolation #58) » Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:12 am

Post by Nauci »

In post 912, Ausuka wrote:i told myself i was going to stop posting content itt because i'm having no fun but i can't stay away because i have a mafia addiction probably. still not really going to bother defending myself, sorry

don't think chainlynching popular suspects is going to get town anywhere. i don't think anything indicates scum are feeling pressure; feels like slots commonly seen as town are mostly sitting back and watching suspects go at it, while not actually committing to townreads on any of the suspected players. like, aside from tw to toranga who really tr's any of {ausuka, dunn, toranga} on a substantial level? because as far as i see it's nothing and scum don't really look uncomfortable.

also Reundo had a towny day 1 yeah but he's like totally been scumming it up d2.

first is his keyser push which is like a possible motive of the huntress kill other than keyser!scum I think? but that's minor, more importantly he just up and forgets about this push because nobody was biting? and like his decision to chainlynch me and toranga doesn't make much sense i think. the voteflopping / "opportunism" thing has literally been done to death and is boring while the "organic" thing makes like very little sense; he can feel free to elaborate on it if he wants but I feel like I didn't detail progression on volxen itt so I don't see how it can really be read as inorganic. the fos on toranga I kind of just don't understand at all. and I don't get how he can literally just push a chainlynch while seemingly not really caring about anything either of us posts; like, he has other SRs, he has 4 FOS's with 2 scum alive, you would think that he would do something other than "let's just chainlynch these two players who were the weakest of my 4 FOSs" tbh.

nsg kind of had some poor associatives w/ volxen I think. nauci is possible scum I guess. eragon's hard to tell because I think he's forcing his reads here as either alignment. still need to consider tor/tw/dunn I guess but again doesn't really feel like mafia are threatened in this gamestate
Pausing from my catch up to point out that this is a bomb-ass post
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Post Post #1108 (isolation #59) » Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:53 am

Post by Nauci »

ErrantParabola was scum in my last game with Keyser/irrelephant/tw and sounded generally towny without making any particularly committed or controversial reads and coasted by while other players post a lot more for a long time
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Post Post #1109 (isolation #60) » Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:53 am

Post by Nauci »

I feel it deep in my gut that the way Ausuka's votes joined the wagons and helped create momentum was town motivated, and, in fact, pro-town things to do
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Post Post #1115 (isolation #61) » Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:00 am

Post by Nauci »

In post 1110, Eragon wrote:
In post 1108, Nauci wrote:ErrantParabola was scum in my last game with Keyser/irrelephant/tw and sounded generally towny without making any particularly committed or controversial reads and coasted by while other players post a lot more for a long time
sadness..

i replace in D2, have the 5th highest post count, and people think im coasting

:doc:
I'm finally getting around to reading the section where you post a lot though
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Post Post #1117 (isolation #62) » Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:01 am

Post by Nauci »

In post 1113, Keyser Söze wrote:Let’s explore this, we have time.

VOTE: NSG

I have no idea where this will lead us, but I have a definite feeling it will be a place both wonderful and strange.
I'll give it like a day or 2 for NSG to come in with her own words to defend herself I guess, on Irrelephant's wise suggestion
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Post Post #1119 (isolation #63) » Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:39 am

Post by Nauci »

A huge part of that game was fake claiming but there is no room for him to fake claim here and I entered with giving him a town read so he wasn't feeling under fire

but I keep seeing peeks of scum tw habits (see notes) so he's firmly in my "could be scum" pile
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Post Post #1121 (isolation #64) » Thu Sep 13, 2018 12:01 pm

Post by Nauci »

Spoiler: hot takes from 800-whenever I started interacting with the thread in real time
-800 I don’t remember dragon’s posting almost at all except for a few stray towny remarks maybe. This slot is hard gliding under the radar for everyone

-802 damnit the worst this is exactly the kind of shit you consistently post about your scum partners as scum

-807 I don’t have a read on why but my gut says this post is scummy. Like several things are mild misreps or lack the proper context, that as a whole build up a negative case on ausuka

-815 is a good post; especially the comment on 666

-827 Irrelephant’s notes mirrored my own on dunnstral here

-834 I’m never lynching irrelephant if the cute baby elephant posts keep coming’. Sorry ducky he stole your thang

-839 whatchya waiting on ducky :o Please actually be town this time and not empty posturing again you have no room to fake claim in this game lol

-841 I’m sorry Irrelephant but I’m really not understanding what you mean here

-842 tw can you explain what you think 841 meant

-844 ok never mind lol

-904 10 points for house Toranga

-911 I’m going to give this idea some serious consideration, ausuka. Also, this is a town post; scum ausuka under heavy shade wouldn’t dig her heels in on something so controversial and requiring deep belief

-912 is gold

-918 NSG you’re only the first on the wagon because keyser and irrelephant moved off for a bit; many people were voting Dunn before you if you don’t count unvoting?

-921 @eragon I just didn’t have a good read of e’s alignment at that point but that was when I forgot what the flips were during my early catch up

-941 Irrelephant

-928 for the life of me I can’t figure out why me scum reading Keyser from the first 200 posts makes my slot no longer town

-948 lol keyser be careful what you wish for
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Post Post #1124 (isolation #65) » Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:43 pm

Post by Nauci »

I keep wanting you to be town and was initially reading you as town but bits of your scum nervousness tics keep coming up and it makes me sad if you're scum against me again =P
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Post Post #1125 (isolation #66) » Thu Sep 13, 2018 1:47 pm

Post by Nauci »

Also when I say that's exactly the kind of thing you say about your partners as scum, I mean it's exactly the way that you scum-theater/semi distance-but-buddy, and that it's the kind of statement that you think of specifically from a scum point of view trying to throw us off the scent
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Post Post #1128 (isolation #67) » Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:23 pm

Post by Nauci »

Lingering post catch up questions and responses:
  • @Keyser
    Why did me scum reading you for the first 8 pages make you want to scum read/re-evaluate my slot? What would be the scum train of thought to do something like that?
  • @eragon
    I had forgotten what the flips were while I was catching up early because it had to be spread out over so many sessions; I didn't have much of a read on e's posts at that point w/o knowing the flip.
  • @NSG
    You were only first on the wagon at that time because others (including keyser and irrelephant) had voted but unvoted
  • @irrelephant
    Irrelephant, is TW's explanation for your post the theory you meant?

    Reundo where did you go day 2 :< :< :< I was so happy with that town read but you can't just rest on your laurels buddy
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Post Post #1131 (isolation #68) » Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:36 pm

Post by Nauci »

In post 1127, the worst wrote:
In post 1124, Nauci wrote:scum nervousness tics
why do you act so confident about seeing the difference between my scum nervous tics and general nervous tics lmao I have a very weird typing style
I mean I think I'm seeing the same psychological reactions but I'll comb through your town games and see if they're present there as well
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Post Post #1132 (isolation #69) » Thu Sep 13, 2018 2:36 pm

Post by Nauci »

In post 1128, Nauci wrote:Lingering post catch up questions and responses:
  • @Keyser
    Why did me scum reading you for the first 8 pages make you want to scum read/re-evaluate my slot? What would be the scum train of thought to do something like that?
  • @eragon
    I had forgotten what the flips were while I was catching up early because it had to be spread out over so many sessions; I didn't have much of a read on e's posts at that point w/o knowing the flip.
  • @NSG
    You were only first on the wagon at that time because others (including keyser and irrelephant) had voted but unvoted
  • @irrelephant
    Irrelephant, is TW's explanation for your post the theory you meant?
Reundo where did you go day 2 :< :< :< I was so happy with that town read but you can't just rest on your laurels buddy
damnit I forgot to close my list
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Post Post #1143 (isolation #70) » Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:10 pm

Post by Nauci »

In post 1138, northsidegal wrote:
In post 1043, Irrelephant11 wrote:In the green: Nauci is almost certainly town, as I think volxen was being survivalistic at the end there by trying to get sesq to unvote correctly and move wagons back to sesq
i'm not making any comment specifically on the context of this game, but moreso this as an idea in general

i think a good case study for why what you're saying here may not necessarily always hold true and should definitely be re-examined come later days (or today; nothing says you have to wait) is Mini Normal 1996, which i modded. early on day 1 pretty much the entire scumteam got caught - that is, at different points throughout the day all of them had major wagons start to form on them. they recognized this, and as a strategy decided to immediately all turn against eachother and hardbus. scum got lynched day one, but going down he made his partners look really good by contributing to their wagons. the scumteam didn't even know for which of them the lynch would actually go through on, but no matter who it was they would turn out looking good.

and so that's exactly what happened, scum got cleared from associations for a few days before i think some role shenanigans brought it back for town.

my main takeaway from that game was that a scumteam that's caught early on might turn on itself as a strategy, pushing one person down to raise the rest of them up. there was actually a time where i was considering making a "reminders / advice / 'words of wisdom' " section on my wiki and including that there, but i never got around to it.

anyways, that just reminded me of that thing that i had been thinking about for a while but never really had a chance to say.
Your post reminds me of the game mhsmith post for his Test Your VCA Skills thread (it's a very very good thread; anyone who hasn't read it really ought to).

Also this is a vvv good post.
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Post Post #1146 (isolation #71) » Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:13 pm

Post by Nauci »

In post 1142, northsidegal wrote:
Spoiler: rude comment inside, i apologize in advance
~
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:lol:

Thanks for saving me from making a wallpost for 2 hours :o
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Post Post #1147 (isolation #72) » Thu Sep 13, 2018 4:14 pm

Post by Nauci »

In post 1145, northsidegal wrote:is it a towntell to agree with someone else pointing out the potentially questionable reasoning for a townread on yourself?

not sure!
is this about me

I'm so lost
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Post Post #1154 (isolation #73) » Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:59 pm

Post by Nauci »

Had to go to boyfriend's office because my roommate made smoked salmon but he has no sense of smell to detect that my entire apartment reeks and I couldn't stop coughing yaaaay
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Post Post #1159 (isolation #74) » Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:29 pm

Post by Nauci »

In post 1148, northsidegal wrote:
In post 1146, Nauci wrote:
In post 1142, northsidegal wrote:
Spoiler: rude comment inside, i apologize in advance
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:lol:

Thanks for saving me from making a wallpost for 2 hours :o
don't let me stop you :wink:
In post 1147, Nauci wrote:
In post 1145, northsidegal wrote:is it a towntell to agree with someone else pointing out the potentially questionable reasoning for a townread on yourself?

not sure!
is this about me

I'm so lost
yeah. my was about why volxen's push on your slot as he was going down may not be a reason to associatevly townread you (which you agreed with). what did you think it was about?
I thought it was but get reeeeaaally paranoid-awkward when there's room for misinterpretation

like the same feeling as when I'm on a sidewalk with someone coming the other way and we both try to dodge each other but end up blocking each other and I have to guess which way they're going and oh no ive fallen down a pit of awkwardness and will now cringe myself out of existence ok bye
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Post Post #1160 (isolation #75) » Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:04 pm

Post by Nauci »

He has almost no sense of smell and I have a nearly super human sense of smell

He's Indian and makes Indian food with like 5x the spices so I can taste his food with my eyeballs from upstairs sometimes

Fish though

Fish oil sticks to everything
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Post Post #1168 (isolation #76) » Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:03 pm

Post by Nauci »

In post 1166, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 1128, Nauci wrote: [*]
@Keyser
Why did me scum reading you for the first 8 pages make you want to scum read/re-evaluate my slot? What would be the scum train of thought to do something like
My tone was semi serious: but tbh Sesq on D1 gives me enough reason to not lynch you today.

D2, your slot has been focused on killing townies. I just think you need to re-evaluate the playerlist.
Okay first of all, it's really bizarre for you to say "D2, your slot." While talking to me. That's some weird 3rd person round about stuff.

Second, my slot has spent more time declaring and protecting town reads thus far while I continue to work on my scum cases when I have time. So that's either confirmation bias refusing to see what I'm spending my time on, or a misrepresentation.
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Post Post #1169 (isolation #77) » Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:20 pm

Post by Nauci »

In post 1137, northsidegal wrote:
In post 990, Toranaga wrote:one of the games she posted so much so hard she was still top poster d3 and died n1

and it was a lot of... meta diving people, making very deep reads
what game was this? not doubting you, just wondering so i can look back
In post 993, Nauci wrote:lurk then replace out :< :< :<
this one was because of a long v/la though
In post 999, Toranaga wrote:nauci is town as fuck
i'm liking the meta reads much more for town than the catch-up posts honestly, although i'm still not sure how actually town-indicative they are - after all, meta reads are pretty factual; it's a lot of just straight up pointing to evidence and a lot less of your own personal take on things, so they can come from town or scum equally as often. i think as scum (at least, in one game) i used meta reads as a crutch to avoid having to give real reads (not to say that i don't use meta a lot as town or that you should take it as a scumtell - don't do that.)

in terms of why i didn't like the catch-up posts for town, it's because they reminded me a lot of a scumgame i played on a secret alt once where if you just sort of read through the thread and react to a lot of posts it comes out as just a lot of words which people are inclined to towntell

and also i still haven't seen
The Tell
assuming that
The Tell
is what i think it is.
I'm just quoting NSG here as one example in one game, but this isn't targeted at her.

TBQH the mysterious towntell posts at me are super annoying. They aren't helpful to anyone else in the game to read me because they're not in on your secret, they don't help anyone else read your slots because you're stating a read without explaining it, it's not content I can engage with or respond to, and it makes the game (mafia in general) a lot less fun for me.

I replaced in and had to catch up on 30 pages, THEN go into analysis mode and work out all of the cases and thought processes I am pursuing and find time to do the research that you guys could have been doing all game, and the response is to dismiss addressing what I've said with this hand wavey "she hasn't shown her mysterious town tell yet" excuse.

I know that every time that I play a game where I don't spend dozens of hours pounding out work like in American Presidents, people are going to freak out that I'm not playing my town game, so I'm already discouraged and burned out (pretty much like how Toranga is treating NSG). I was already extremely burned out after American Presidents because I found out that my giant amounts of effort only led people to town read me: WITHOUT EVEN READING MY WORK, nevermind engaging with it. The most I was remembered for was my neapolitan green checks when I had spent so many hours writing so many words and thoughts.

So it's kind of infuriating and just demotivational if everyone just sits around expecting me to write a bunch of shit so they can easily town read me instead of actually thinking about my views, opinions, read progressions, etc. and engaging with it and using it to cooperate on solving the game together. Like, I'm pretty sure this is why GNB wrote the disclaimer he did.

If people just expect me to put out walls of hard work so they can get a lazy town read, but the content of what I'm writing doesn't change anyone's mind or get any responses, what the hell am I on the site for? Do I need to lurk a dozen times as town to "reset" my meta?

But WRT catch up posts:

I have seen catch up posts that are just a bunch of reactions and IIOA to look like content/busywork. I don't think mine are like that. I think that I used to posts that were just reactions to each individual post, so I tried to write specific notes that build towards cases or contribute to distinct reads, and show my work for how I got to those reads. In some cases, the case I'm working towards is too large to explain into notes without going on a 200 word deviation, so I'm saving them separately until I can string together all of the thoughts cohesively into a case, which takes a LOT of time. I'd appreciate if they were engaged with on a specific topic or moment because you have the opportunity to think about whether or not my reactions or reads make sense in the context of the game state and my slot's perspective being town or scum, and not just dismiss it with a "catch ups can be faked LAMIST word vomit" argument.
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Post Post #1170 (isolation #78) » Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:21 pm

Post by Nauci »

In post 1166, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 1128, Nauci wrote: [*]
@Keyser
Why did me scum reading you for the first 8 pages make you want to scum read/re-evaluate my slot? What would be the scum train of thought to do something like
My tone was semi serious: but tbh Sesq on D1 gives me enough reason to not lynch you today.

D2, your slot has been focused on killing townies. I just think you need to re-evaluate the playerlist.
It's disappointing how little you've engaged with all of the content from the last 5+ pages (while asking others to contribute more).
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Post Post #1173 (isolation #79) » Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:32 pm

Post by Nauci »

In post 1171, Keyser Söze wrote:
Dunnstral and Toranaga are no longer in my PoE today.

I want to sort NSG and TW now. If I exit D2 with strong reads on either slot I will count that as a success.
Why?
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Post Post #1174 (isolation #80) » Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:33 pm

Post by Nauci »

In post 1172, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 1170, Nauci wrote:all the content from the last 5+ pages
Highlight which alignment indicative observations / scum cases you think I have ignored and I will offer you my take/read on it.
Otherwise, I believe I am up to date.
I want you to explain which things you reacted to and caused the updates in your reads.
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Post Post #1255 (isolation #81) » Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:10 pm

Post by Nauci »

VOTE: dunnstral no time to post but I'll be slightly useful this way gl
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Post Post #1261 (isolation #82) » Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:37 pm

Post by Nauci »

just gave the briefest of glances at the posts since I actually read the thread

what the hell is going on

where is reundo

is there anything that should change my previous read that scum is in <keyser, dunn, tw, eragon> besides toranga's nsg crusade

I'll try to put some time towards this tomorrow but I'm helping a friend finally dump the most massive of assholes and move her metalworking equipment :o
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Post Post #1262 (isolation #83) » Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:38 pm

Post by Nauci »

In post 1260, Dunnstral wrote:And I was obvious town in team mafia I think, unless I'm misremembering
if it's not you then who's scum
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Post Post #1271 (isolation #84) » Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:31 am

Post by Nauci »

UNVOTE:
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Post Post #1272 (isolation #85) » Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:43 am

Post by Nauci »

during my catch up d1 I had dunn as town just based on vca

I'll reconsider until I can iso
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Post Post #1459 (isolation #86) » Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:23 pm

Post by Nauci »

Apologies for my absence; reading up now.

This game took an interesting turn of events. I see the tryhards have properly come out to play and I'll have a lot to read :o I was still working on reading toranga/keyser past games waahhh
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Post Post #1460 (isolation #87) » Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:11 pm

Post by Nauci »

I haven't caught up on this thread, but re-revewing Keyser's American Presidents posts, I just feel there's a
massive
contrast in his POV/attitude/behavior/etc.

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=76627&user_select%5B%5D=25845

In American Presidents, he:
  • Called out and questioned everything he thought could be conceived as attempts to pocket him, even if in jest
  • Spent waaaay more of his posts actively prodding others and sorting
  • Had a more carefree attitude even in the posts where he did defend himself
  • This one is more biased, but I defended Keyser multiple times in that game because I could clearly see what he was thinking in the times he was accused of being scummy, and felt like I agreed with his reads a ton
  • Spent a lot of time just reacting to bits and pieces of the game and writing up reactions to other players' posts in a way that made total sense from the perspective of town trying to figure out the game
This game, I just feel like I saw him be constantly defensive, hyper aware of how others viewed his slot in a way that agitated him, make fewer posts analyzing others, have a lot of reactions and perspectives that felt unnatural to read, and totally didn't comment on the way Volxen defended about him
repeatedly and unsubtly
, throwing him a town read without much of an explanation for day 1. It felt like he tried to shade the players he would find threatening day 1 like Reundo when there was opportunity/momentum to do so, but once it looked futile he flipped 180 (and something about the way he kept calling him teammate felt so awkward, like intentionally trying to create misleading associations?).

I just can't seem to get rid of this gut feel as I read the game. It's hard to explain some of the reasons I get this gut feeling because I feel like I read players on a more psychological/hard to phrase level (without writing the kinds of essays that I do), but I've always been able to just psychologically jump into the perspectives of some town players so seamlessly that they have to be town. This one feels like the opposite; I just struggle to see why Keyser would react so much to every comment on him, while also dodging responding.

Keyser, why did you feel like you had to wait until I cased you to respond to me, when my catch up posts clearly had tons of instances of comments on your posts that you could have replied to/explained/etc.?

VOTE: Keyser Söze
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Post Post #1461 (isolation #88) » Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:26 pm

Post by Nauci »

In post 1175, Keyser Söze wrote:No, you said I ignored all the “content” from the last 5 pages.
What alignment indicative posts / scum cases are you referring to?
You can’t just throw that out there and expect me not to react.
I have been fully engaged in this game thank you.


Do you think Toranaga and Dunnstral are the last two mafia goons?
If so, convince me to return back there.

Toranaga has convinced me 1) he is unlikely mafia and 2) he also convinced me I was a blind idiot for being on Dunnstral’s wagon all of today.
I said I was disappointed with how little you engaged with the content that happened. I thought lots of action had happened with Ausuka and other slots, but your replies were to defend yourself, comment on NSG's joke post instead of her content posts, and a shallow reaction to Dunn's lynchbaity post. Of everything there was to engage with, it was disappointingly shallow.
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Post Post #1462 (isolation #89) » Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:44 pm

Post by Nauci »

I'm catching up but man I am
so
bothered by Keyser misrepresenting my comment to him.

Like I thought maybe I had forgotten I accused him of ignoring the game, but no, it was only like 5 posts before he said that, and my words were:
In post 1170, Nauci wrote:
In post 1166, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 1128, Nauci wrote: [*]
@Keyser
Why did me scum reading you for the first 8 pages make you want to scum read/re-evaluate my slot? What would be the scum train of thought to do something like
My tone was semi serious: but tbh Sesq on D1 gives me enough reason to not lynch you today.

D2, your slot has been focused on killing townies. I just think you need to re-evaluate the playerlist.
It's disappointing how little you've engaged with all of the content from the last 5+ pages (while asking others to contribute more).
I mean that's a really aggressive and shading way to come at me for asking for sortable content and in depth reactions and engagement (hmm, I dare say, I might call that "scum hunting").

I can't figure out why scum Keyser would say it, but I really can't see why town Keyser would demand that I convince him to return to Toranga/Dunnstral. For one, my biggest scumread at the time (at all times?) has been Keyser, which he knows. Maybe it's an attempt to get me to case them instead of him?

I just don't understand the reasoning for so many of Keyser's posts. The look like effort at a glance, but not any deeper than that.

The only posts where Keyser's effort approached the level of analysis and comfort or even paranoia that
town Keyser had. Even the posts that weren't those walls of effort/analysis spoke to more complex thinking about other players' motivations and thoughts, versus the motivations he confidently attributes to Volxen after his flip.

So I guess, in Keyser's words:
In post 858, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 819, the worst wrote:don't give me that phoney AtE crap. if you think it's fake tell me why you think it's fake. the fact you're trying to call me out on a personality thing when you don't know me is g r o s s

but also most of the player list just feels totally resigned with my lunch. like if I was revealed as IC where would people even go?
You still sound like you’re in defence-mode, not scum-hunting mode :(

The best defense is a good offense
’ - Kevin Spacey
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Post Post #1463 (isolation #90) » Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:49 pm

Post by Nauci »

In post 1186, Keyser Söze wrote:@Eragon - why is your vote not on me?
You have just listed many (bad) reasons why you strongly think I am scum.



Btw, I never said I was "god like" - I'm a below-average mafiascum player with still lots to learn. However, my reads have been on point so far this game. If Dunnstral and tora flip town, I'll feel even better about my developing game :giggle:
You're below-average, but your reads have been on point?

But you pushed Reundo, my slot (which I know is town, of course), and e, and pushed volxen a little. How do you make that statement with just 2 flips?
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Post Post #1464 (isolation #91) » Mon Sep 17, 2018 6:49 pm

Post by Nauci »

I mean not just that post, but ones repeatedly declaring how good your reads and and demanding that the rest of us re-assess, instead of actually making your cases for why your reads are so strong?
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Post Post #1465 (isolation #92) » Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:12 pm

Post by Nauci »

In post 1210, Keyser Söze wrote:This game is about survival.
And Dunnstral’s supposed scum game isn’t helping him survive.
Scum-Dunnstral gets no benefit out of this or his remaining teammate: even if his partner busses, they’d get no town-cred.
It’s tactical suicide.

I believe scum are in my middle ground reads.
I extremely do not understand your case for town Dunnstral. It's pure WIFOM Dunning-Kruger. Unless you can show me that Dunnstral's scum game is amazing, I don't see extreme-WIFOM as a good reason for the read.
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Post Post #1466 (isolation #93) » Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:19 pm

Post by Nauci »

Man this is a strange game

Toranga thinks NSG is scum because her scum range can't possibly be so bad that this must be her town posting

Keyser thinks Dunnstral is town because his scum range can't possibly be so bad that this is him scum posting?
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Post Post #1467 (isolation #94) » Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:22 pm

Post by Nauci »

I don't know if it's alignment indicative that Eragon has the same psyduck.mp4 reaction to it that I did
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Post Post #1468 (isolation #95) » Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:25 pm

Post by Nauci »

In post 1233, Eragon wrote:oh my god its so hard to see that.

i dont know what im thinking thinking i can see that.

its almost impossible

/s

but tbh i havent really cased NSG, if they had continued "people pushing me are scum or bad" i woulda hard-pushed them, but they said its a joke so ehhhh
i think tora had a pretty good case overall, but other people are defending too.
thats why NSG is my weakest SR, on top of the fact a Keyser/Dunn Scum team could actually make sense(pre-flip associations. gotta love em good. /s)
wait are you saying you really thought nsg's spoilered rainbow post was serious
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Post Post #1469 (isolation #96) » Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:26 pm

Post by Nauci »

In post 1243, Toranaga wrote:
In post 1241, Ausuka wrote:
In post 1098, Eragon wrote:
In post 1063, Ausuka wrote:{Nauci, Irrelephant, Keyser}
{nsg, (will just trust nauci on this particular read since I'm low on towns anyway) dunnstral}
{Eragon, the worst, Toranga}
{reundo}

about here, i'm probably missing something
can you explain how you think reundo is your biggest scum?
can you explain how you think TW, Tora, and I are scummy?
can you explain your Keyser and NSG TR's?
Reundo is my SR due to my view on the gamestate (Mafia are comfortable now and this sort of town isn't the kind to ace a game based on today, bussing is therefore likely), Keyser things, and the fact he has a wide lynchpool of popular suspects that he's stating willingness to chainlynch. I am open to other ideas but dunn/Keyser isn't really one of those ideas, sorry. Although it doesn't matter what I think really.

Tor is an old read that just decayed over time, tw gives me bad vibes, you're kind of not readable for the most part and some things you do ping me vaguely. Like why am I suddenly 4th scummiest when you've been tunneling me this whole day?

NSG read explanation is in my readslist. Keyser feels genuine and I don't really get how he's meant to be scummy.
you're literally only townreading NSG because nauci is, and nauci is only townreading NSG because NSG doesn't post anything when she is scum normally. she hasn't been towny this game and I think nauci is just taking her for granted here. NSG is smart enough to replicate minimally her town meta. this isn't her town game though. this isn't anyone's town game, this is scum.
Okay so

I've repeatedly said

this may not be NSG at her full town power

but it's waaaay outside of scum nsg range

repeatedly telling us (most of us have seen what full power townsg looks like, but also know her scum range) that she can be townier isn't a good argument

a good argument would be linking to a single scum game where she was able to post like this (she's rolled scum a surprising number of times)
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Post Post #1470 (isolation #97) » Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:34 pm

Post by Nauci »

In post 1275, Keyser Söze wrote:I do love Reundo’s novella-style reads on players. They feel like a warm blanket that re-assure me.

His work on Volxen D1 was exemplary. For those alone I elected Reundo into my top tier of town reads at the start of D2.

His recent post regarding Dunnstral strengthens my resolve not to hang Dunnstral today.

Reundo also weakens my desire to flip NSG D2 (pointing out their D1 actions surrounding the Sesq counter wagon was not the scum-optimal-play).

Finally, Reundo has re-opened my reluctant suspicion of Ausuka, who jumped off the Volxen wagon, to join the Sesq wagon, then finally rejoining the Volxen wagon. Even though I town-lean the Ausuka slot, those actions are scummy in isolation (in the conventional VCA sense). This is
my dilemma
This is the kind of keyser post I was hoping to see make up the bulk of his ISO
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Post Post #1471 (isolation #98) » Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:38 pm

Post by Nauci »

WTH is WIM
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Post Post #1476 (isolation #99) » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:17 pm

Post by Nauci »

There were a few moments I townread TW but that felt like 30 pages ago

it's not out of character for TW to dance on a scum buddy's grave and he took no part in swinging the momentum on that lynch IMO, so there's not much to rule out tw being scum against me yet again except statistical craziness
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Post Post #1477 (isolation #100) » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:19 pm

Post by Nauci »

In post 1335, the worst wrote:
In post 1333, Keyser Söze wrote:TW demonstrating his unreadable tone,
quoting for memes post-game
If you're scum again I'm going to have to buy my cat a rubber ducky for a new avatar
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Post Post #1479 (isolation #101) » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:20 pm

Post by Nauci »

In post 1337, Toranaga wrote:
In post 419, Eragon wrote:
Irrelephant11 wrote:we've got a couple hours might as well use 'em

Anyone else around?

@Huntress, what would you say if I told you scummy word choices were a reason to townread Keyser?

pedit: whatever you're thinking

Spoiler:
Image


i mean, there 4 posts dont really have much to read off, tbh id read them more off the flips.

If volxen is town then i might look at them/sesq a bit more, but if Volxen is mafia i think huntress is going to be quite towny.
i know bussing is a possibility, but how easy is it to just come in, state intent to hammer, and vote sesq?
Instead, they came into the thread, gave a few starting reads, then said they dont want a sesq lynch and voted Keyzer.
then said they're fine with volxen, but preferably not sesq, so more defending sesq, who was at (L-1 was it?) and a few more reads.

so if i had to make a read right now i think id give them a town lean for their posts
I find the excessive associatives with the volxen flip quite alarming, especially considering eragon had just subbed in 2 hours ago. this feels very unnatural from a recent replacement.
That eragon post struck me as towny; I'm not seeing what the scum motivation would be for this?
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Post Post #1481 (isolation #102) » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:23 pm

Post by Nauci »

In post 1349, Keyser Söze wrote:just for fun I'm gonna post every time Eragon has shaded something NAI I've written or expressed suspicion over something I've posted:

"So lynching Keyser should end the game"
"i think the most likely scumbuddy would be Keyser"
"agreeeeed. but add Keyser there"
"can I have 10 of what your smoking?"
"I definitely see you and Dunn flipping scum more often then Ausuka."
"IMO we Lynch Dunn > Keyser > NSG/Ausuka > NSG/Ausuka and thats a wrap."
"p.much hard pocketing of Reundo right here"
"This is reachy, incorrect, and wolfy"
"Nice deflection my dude, by not one that will get you far."
"on top of the fact a Keyser/Dunn Scum team could actually make sense"
"i was saying you twisting and misinterpreting her words was bad"
"ahh, the self-deprecation, always the distancing from yourself being scum, because scum isnt likely to point out where they did bad"
"so dont try to twist their words to make it seem like you are doing as much as everyone else and that they are wolfy reaching."
"this is subtly shading dunn and subtly saying "I'm town""
"probably the scum"
"yes i know theres three of them but i could see them all flipping scum"
"honestly fucking stop saying this BS"
"how is there nothing scummy about keyser?"
"its just a way to deflect the attention IMO"
"but i havent seen much presence from you recently either, i know you've had a lot of posts, and probably just RL stuff(understand) but you have lost activity"
"probably the scum"
"if both scum arent in {Dunn, Ausuka, Keyser, NSG, maybe Reundo) i need help."
"also what i mean by this is that this post is super scummy."




...still waiting for him to vote me. All I know is he has my lynch lined up after Dunnstral's (who he's still not voted...)


I need advice from a neutral party:

Does this look like confirmation bias? Or someone suspiciously chaining misslynches / linking a townie-to-scum?
feels like a pretty natural suspicion of you to me

but you probably don't count me as a neutral party
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Post Post #1482 (isolation #103) » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:25 pm

Post by Nauci »

In post 1360, Dunnstral wrote:
In post 1355, Keyser Söze wrote:@Dunn - why do you suspect Eragon?
feels kind of detached from the game
...wat
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Post Post #1485 (isolation #104) » Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:58 pm

Post by Nauci »

Before I finish reading since dunnstral is the lead wagon

Here are some scum games

and here are town ones

They feel similar for the most part. Seems like town Dunn is a bit less passive and makes confident/town leading posts and more responses, while scum dunn makes a lot of question format surface commentary ones, and/or asks people about their scum reads of him like here. He seems to keep teammates at standard distance of half hearted bussing or largely ignoring, and does make inconsistent pushes like hypocritical ones or inconsistent logic.

I'd say this is more scummy than town dunn, based on the lack of engagement, confusion about who was scum/town reading volxen, and questioning people asking him for content?

Idk I have a hard time reading Dunn.
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Post Post #1486 (isolation #105) » Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:07 pm

Post by Nauci »

In post 593, Eragon wrote:19999999999999% confirmed town{Nauci}
Spoiler:
kidding.



{Irrelephant, The worst, Keyser}
{toranaga, nauci}
{Ausuka, NSG}
{dunnstral, Reundo}


right now Im not very confident on the reads themselves, because I haven't had ISO dive time yet.
Basically this is just the strength of my reads, so the top bracket is my strongest town reads(but not, like, confirmed town, or "IMO never ever flips scum town")
second is town reads, but could sort of go either way
Ausuka and NSG are basically null
And dunn and Reundo are both small scum reads, but not very confident in them
In post 938, Eragon wrote:
TOWN CORE

-Nauci
-Toranaga
-Eragon
-the worst
-Irrelephant11

PoE Bracket

-northsidegal
-Ausuka
-Keyser Söze
-Dunnstral
-Reundo

Probably the town

-Reundo
-NSG

probably the scum

-keyser soze
-dunnstral
-ausuka
In post 1393, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 1385, Eragon wrote:and if you think they're pockety, can you explain which posts and why?
the piggy backing.
the unsupported top town read of nauci in your town core.
Between 593 and 938 I'm pretty sure I threw down a lot of obvtown posts so I don't see what's so "unsupported" here? Like, town-lean to town-core in that time seems like a reasonable progression
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Post Post #1487 (isolation #106) » Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:07 pm

Post by Nauci »

In post 1396, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 1390, Eragon wrote:you very well could be hard-defending dunn.
Scum-keyser busses both Volxen and Dunn and sails to easy victory 100 times out of 100.

I wouldn't put myself through all this bullshit.
Irrelephant or I would spot that play from miles away though
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Post Post #1488 (isolation #107) » Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:09 pm

Post by Nauci »

In post 1410, Toranaga wrote:
In post 461, the worst wrote:I'm not the watcher.... I'm a duckling



duh
I'm impressed you weren't NKed n1 with the amount of TMI posting that volxen was scum at that EOD
I don't understand: why would TW be NK'ed for that N1
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Post Post #1489 (isolation #108) » Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:12 pm

Post by Nauci »

In post 1415, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 1412, Toranaga wrote:
In post 491, Eragon wrote:Literally the only play is to kill volxen.

If we lynch him and he’s watcher, then someone else takes his place and we get their results N1

If we lynch him and he’s scum, GREAT!

If we don’t lynch him and he’s watcher, and he’s town, he dies tonight and we don’t get results for N1

If we don’t lynch him and he’s scum, we’ll then we lynch him tommorow, which is a day later than we should
this lacks nuance
My confirmation bias says it’s a bus post.

Perfect timing to try to get t/cred just as the lynch has all but been delivered.
this makes no sense that post was just a game mechanics point hours before deadline just after volxen claimed and people thought about backing off but it wouldn't have made any sense to so the post was very pro town to ensure a lynch based on sound logic
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Post Post #1490 (isolation #109) » Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:13 pm

Post by Nauci »

In post 1414, the worst wrote:
In post 1410, Toranaga wrote:
In post 461, the worst wrote:I'm not the watcher.... I'm a duckling



duh
I'm impressed you weren't NKed n1 with the amount of TMI posting that volxen was scum at that EOD
was silently praying for it tbqh
Ducky I worry about you

You're like a WIFOM-BS cannon when you're scum

@Eragon why do you town read TW so much
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Post Post #1491 (isolation #110) » Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:14 pm

Post by Nauci »

In post 1411, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 428, Flicker wrote:Votecount 1.15

volxen (6)
- Reundo , Sesq , Keyser Söze , Toranaga , the worst , Ausuka
Sesq (3)
- Dunnstral , northsidegal , volxen
Keyser Söze (1)
- Huntress
Toranaga (1)
- Irrelephant
Huntress (1)
- Eragon

Not voting: N/A

The deadline for Day 1 is 1:52 pm CT on Tuesday, September 4, in (expired on 2018-09-04 14:51:53).
Who else said DUNN-NSG-VOLXEN are unlikely scum team based on all three sat on Sesq/Nauci slot at EoD?
IIRC, Irrelephant
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Post Post #1492 (isolation #111) » Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:19 pm

Post by Nauci »

In post 1446, Toranaga wrote:
In post 1432, Eragon wrote:
In post 1410, Toranaga wrote:
In post 461, the worst wrote:I'm not the watcher.... I'm a duckling



duh
I'm impressed you weren't NKed n1 with the amount of TMI posting that volxen was scum at that EOD
why would he be killed for giving off TMI??

isnt TMI bad?
knowing volxen is scum requires one to be the watcher, or scum.
are

are you a time traveler
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Post Post #1493 (isolation #112) » Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:22 pm

Post by Nauci »

In post 1475, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 1463, Nauci wrote:
In post 1186, Keyser Söze wrote:@Eragon - why is your vote not on me?
You have just listed many (bad) reasons why you strongly think I am scum.



Btw, I never said I was "god like" - I'm a below-average mafiascum player with still lots to learn. However, my reads have been on point so far this game. If Dunnstral and tora flip town, I'll feel even better about my developing game :giggle:
You're below-average, but your reads have been on point?

But you pushed Reundo, my slot (which I know is town, of course), and e, and pushed volxen a little. How do you make that statement with just 2 flips?
I have not been fixed/tunnelled in my reads though (caught in confirm bias)

Yes, I scum read Reundo at one point on D1 but you have failed to see the development of my town read of them.

I feel my revised reads are getting closer to the real picture.
You repeatedly talked about wanting to sort NSG (and TW) but didn't engage with her catch up posts at all

and I haven't seen you case TW either
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Post Post #1494 (isolation #113) » Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:35 pm

Post by Nauci »

I think it would be absolutely mad to lynch Eragon today

<Dunnstral, TW, Keyser> is my lynch pool for today


-I'm clearing Toranga because newbscum Volxen wouldn't try to throw heat off of himself onto a teammate like that in his other-lurkers post (experienced scum do though, like Dunn)

-Reundo built the wagon on volxen from scratch day 1, even if he's been suspiciously inactive d2, and I completely grok all of his views, even the ones where I don't necessarily agree I see where he's coming from

-I thiiiink this is town Irrelephant, because I feel like scum irrelephant has bits of knowing the setup leak out in his posting or just hints of an agenda, but townrrelephant jumps all over the place trying to get reactions and vote momentum

-I honestly don't remember why I thought ausuka was town but I remember feeling that was the case quite strongly

-NSG is not scum here; I just don't think any of what she's post is within scum nsg range even when she's not burned out

-I thought eragon's posts about lynching scum OR claimed watchers was town-beneficial, as well as catching many of the things I found questionable about keyser before I did/post about them, which means he's not just sheeping me opportunistically. The things he noticed would be *really* hard to contrive as scum, even if Keyser is actually town. Funny enough I was paranoid about Eragon until Keyser's post summing up every time he shaded Keyser :lol:

Meanwhile, GNB was commented on by volxen in a very suspicious way, made a lot of town levels of effort posts but that were just commentary on mechanics and surface level game info. TW as scum is a WIFOM cannon who's just as prone to dancing on his scum buddy's grave as he is being outright friendly to his partners, and despite having a few informative posts, has been resting on his laurels since. Also, ducky, you sure as hell know I'm town here =P

I'm not sure if I mentioned in my previous catch ups, but it felt like Keyser was on the volxen wagon when it was only kind of building and wasn't a sure lynch yet, but by the time he checked again, it had picked up enough steam that it'd be really awkward if he switched to sesq without really really good grounds. His post evaluating sesq felt more like he was searching hard for a reason to vote there and save volxen, but couldn't come up with anything by the end of the case so he may as well post the effort in the thread for why he stayed on Volxen. I realize that this is some serious paranoia reaching level theorizing, but all of my gut feels about Keyser this game are a 180 flip of what I felt in the American Presidents game, where I defended him to irrelephant's paranoia. :lol:
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Post Post #1495 (isolation #114) » Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:36 pm

Post by Nauci »

Not enough time to rally a keyser wagon so I'll just go here VOTE: dunnstral
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Post Post #1499 (isolation #115) » Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:49 am

Post by Nauci »

NO ONE HAMMER DUNN I'M IN THE MIDDLE OF MY KEYSER POST

UNVOTE:
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Post Post #1500 (isolation #116) » Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:49 am

Post by Nauci »

In post 1498, Toranaga wrote:
In post 1492, Nauci wrote:
In post 1446, Toranaga wrote:
In post 1432, Eragon wrote:
In post 1410, Toranaga wrote:
In post 461, the worst wrote:I'm not the watcher.... I'm a duckling



duh
I'm impressed you weren't NKed n1 with the amount of TMI posting that volxen was scum at that EOD
why would he be killed for giving off TMI??

isnt TMI bad?
knowing volxen is scum requires one to be the watcher, or scum.
are

are you a time traveler
he claimed watcher, remember?

so if you're the watcher you might behave like TW
Oh sorry I misinterpreted your wording of "requires one to be the watcher" I get it now and agree
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Post Post #1502 (isolation #117) » Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:08 am

Post by Nauci »

Finally reading Keyser scum games lol

Subject: Mini Normal 1888 - TwoFace Mafia - Game Over
Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 164, Eddie Cane wrote:you haven't played with transcend much have you
I currently have one uncompleted game with him.
In post 173, Barleycorn wrote:i like transcend and want to sheep him. i don't like reading keyser's posts and get little from them when i do. i also don't like that keyser didn't interact with my
I am currently on this page as part of my catch-up.
I will 'interact' with you as part of my natural catch-up.
I have not ignored anything/anyone so far.
Gosh this post feels familiar
Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 174, Barleycorn wrote:keyser's interaction with dog was weird. everyone reading really far into dog's reaction to the fire wagon is weird.
"Weird"?
I think my analysis on that was explicit and insightful thank you very much.

Lot's of dialogue has been expressed on dog's reaction/fire's wagon, so me sharing my own stance on it is not "weird" or irrational.
Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 43, DogWatch wrote:I'm saying if he's scum then it's NOT a noob scum tell, as evidenced by his past posts. that's just his style of posting regardless. It just initially caught my eye because Lamist in my experience often is a noob scum tell.. but I also haven't played a game in 9 years, so my readings can be outdated.
Yes, I was wondering why you were projecting your newb-scum-tell on him - if you dug up his "past games" this could explain why you didn't follow up with your suspicion with a VOTE. IN general, 'LAMIST' is null for me (I get s/read alot for people thinking my pro-town posts are me
trying-to-look-townie
).
In post 44, DogWatch wrote:Fire has three votes now with zero reasoning behind them.
Can the three of you explain?
We're getting out of the rvs stage at this point.
:lol: The game has only begun.
I think the above can be catorgorized as LAMIST :giggle:
We are in RVS.
Why did you expect those three to have deep/supporting reasons for their naked RVS votes?

In post 54, aronagrundy wrote:Exactly, which is why his defense lacks substance. If it's going to dissipate anyway, is anyone really going to give him towncred for defending your wagon?

I also never said dog was scum. I've wanted to start a wagon and felt like fucking with him
I agree here, in theory, 'scum' will more likely choose to defend a 'townie' when the wagon/scum-case has more reasoning and substance (then they reap the greater town-cred). Thinking scum would defend an empty RVS wagon on town is a bit too far-fetched for me. I'd be more concerned with players defending players at the meaty end of the game.
Is this scum-keyser lampshading how he makes LAMIST posts as scum? There's SO much self meta in Scum Keyser games wow

He's super not shy about town reading/defending scum teammates (Eddie Cane and DogWatch) in this game. It's honestly amazing how bold-faced it is. Even his case on another player is a defense of his scum partner?

Not to mention all the defensive or LAMIST posts almost to the point of gaslighting and misrepping (here, Transcend said the stalled wagon on keyser meant he's scum because scum would love the chance to wagon town-keyser, and keyser says he was making up a narrative because there were multiple stalled wagons. Except they weren't on scary tryhard players like keyser, which keyser actively ignored as transcend's point).

I ran out of words to link to his gaslighting, defensiveness, et al so here are some more because every other post is defensive.

Oh and being suspicious of anyone who scumreads him even a little
Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 288, Barleycorn wrote:what was this case?
In post 289, Barleycorn wrote:i think you're full of ****!
I think I am the only person reading the thread :giggle:

"171 is a scum claim btw"
"i don't like reading keyser's posts and get little from them when i do. i also don't like that keyser didn't interact with my 159"
"keyser's interaction with dog was weird."
"i didn't understand your motivations"
"I'm paranoid he's buddying up to me"
"Excellent. Two obv town here. Massive resistance. Scum would love to run up a town!keyser"
"gerryoat - Keyser Söze (L-6). Lol"


Then your recent suggested/hinted scum-feel to add as the cherry on top of the cake:
"keyser feels slimy"


All items that players were trying to suggest were scum-indicative. I'm so "slimy" none of those accusations stuck :giggle:


[FYI: I refer all scum-feels, observations of suspicion/paranoia/VCA/scum-read reasons as a growing/developing 'scum-case' on a slot]

I think I have answered all allegations on my slot efficiently, with comfortable fluency and articulation :nerd:

I took most offense to the
"Massive resistance"
accusation Transcend was trying to portray.
Keyser do you always quote other people's scum cases of you as scum in attempts to undermine them, because I'm getting deja vu here
Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 300, Barleycorn wrote:ok you're not full of shit. but i don't think transcend is either.
In post 219, FireScreamer wrote:
You are not going to get 6 other people to agree with Gut. You know this and are not trying. Which means you are putting on a show and I wonder why.
would you agree this is an example of resistance?
In regard FireScreamer's point:
- I actually agreed with him there. No one will support your push on player if you're only saying "Player X is scum. Why? Gut lolz." If you don't add the supporting argument to your case you're not going to convince your teammates to lynch your scum-read.
- Plus, Transcend's play this game is an easy playstyle to hide behind as both town AND scum, so I understand the "putting on a show" observation.
I.e keep posting short and cute reads/votes... but not offer anything tangible along with it.
I feel like FireScreamer shared my suspicion on Transcend's intentional null/hard-to-read playstyle.


In regard the 'massive resistance' point:
- Re-reading it, I can see how this could be indirect DEFENSE (FireScreamer changing the focus from me to Transcend)
- HOWEVER, "massive resistance" is still too much of an excessive/OTT/hyperbole expression.

I agree that my lynch was not mass-supported.

However, lack of support does not equal "massive resistance".

Agree?
...or use the term "teammate"

TL;DR of just that one game: Keyser plays a beautiful scum game that's totally counter to site meta. Spends tons of time being defensive, prefers to not bus teammates unless necessary/inevitable, OMGUS votes a lot, shades people with extremely skilled manipulation and questioning, and has a... gaslighty tone?

Up next: examples from this game of him doing these things (that condescending/accusatory/defensive tone just constantly agitated me, even when I didn't have logical reasons to dislike a post). I didn't react to ANY of his American Presidents posts this way, while almost every post he made in that game and this game feel exactly the same.
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Post Post #1503 (isolation #118) » Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:09 am

Post by Nauci »

In post 1501, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 1495, Nauci wrote:Not enough time to rally a keyser wagon
In post 1499, Nauci wrote:NO ONE HAMMER DUNN I'M IN THE MIDDLE OF MY KEYSER POST
I'll save you time: I'm not scum.

You don't know me.

I know you though.
I like when you post a condescending gaslighty defensive comment at me right before I was about to point out that scum-you does this

I think this makes things easier
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Post Post #1504 (isolation #119) » Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:12 am

Post by Nauci »

Everything about Keyser's pushes and cases in American Presidents felt like reactions and analysis to me, while those 2 games (oh and this one) I'd describe his pushes more as "shading." Oh and for some reason he uses way more :emoticons: and
formatting
I think
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Post Post #1508 (isolation #120) » Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:19 am

Post by Nauci »

In post 1497, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 1359, Keyser Söze wrote:VOTE: Eragon

Probably gonna stay here for the rest of D2.

Dunnstral vs Eragon wagons competing makes most sense in my reads universe. Not going to give any town-scum, scum-scum association theory until we see a flip.
I may need to go back on my promise.

VOTE: Dunnstral

Sorry mate. I needed more tangible town motivation in your ISO to defend you with. In the end, I’ll have to concede and say WIFOM isn’t going to outweigh the surface level scummy actions in your D1/D2 behaviour. I hope to play again with you, but hopefully it’s in a game that engages/excites you.


Let’s end Day 2.
So after pages and pages and pages of defending Dunnstral, you're willing to do a total 180 for no reason right after I said I am in the middle of casing you?

Really?

Let's be real: that was not a thought out and cased flip on Dunnstral. That was a black and white obvious switch to Dunnstral because I'm willing to lynch there instead of you and even said so.

I can't even see a universe where town Keyser makes here, with the threat to replace out.

Guys, this is caught scum and you know it. VOTE: Keyser Söze if he flips green I'll use whatever non-forum-rule-breaking avatar Keyser chooses for the rest of 2018.

PEdit: Keyser you can fake the things you do as town, like evaluate each players' cases one by one and make nuanced observations, but almost no one can change tone and attitude. That'd be a more convincing defense if I didn't see you as town for a long time and see a completely different personality.

Calling me pathetic and telling me to save my time and NOT case you is pro-town... how?
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Post Post #1510 (isolation #121) » Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:20 am

Post by Nauci »

VOTE: Keyser Söze
VOTE: Keyser Söze
VOTE: Keyser Söze
VOTE: Keyser Söze
VOTE: Keyser Söze
VOTE: Keyser Söze
VOTE: Keyser Söze
VOTE: Keyser Söze
VOTE: Keyser Söze
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Post Post #1513 (isolation #122) » Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:28 am

Post by Nauci »

In post 387, Reundo wrote:I don't really understand why the volxen wagon died down the way it did. The only town points he got was from northsidegal for being contradictory, and while I can sort of see where northsidegal is coming from it doesn't feel like a particularly strong town-read, and the contradictions run much deeper than mere activity. Looking back on it, post #254 is a lot more petty than I realized. I could see why some of the posts volxen mentioned could be viewed as active lurking, but to not put any more thought into players than "oh, they're active lurking, they're probably scum" is incredibly lazy and narrow-minded. It actually feels like he's afraid of contradicting himself, as if scum-reading someone for doing X means he also has to scum-read everyone who does X, and I'm struggling to see how town can be so close-minded. He gives himself a lot of town points for "having reads and trying to game solve" while completely ignoring that 2.718 made an entire reads list, and the least he could've done was acknowledge that fact and explain why 2.718's reads list was lazy/active-lurking/whatever instead of trying to sweep it under the rug and hope no one notices.

His recent trajectory isn't much better either. 2.718 seemed to be his biggest scum-read, but when northsidegal started town-reading him volxen didn't even bat an eye or seem to care at all really, not even an acknowledgement akin to "well, I guess you have a point on 2.178", and he seemed too eager to hop onto a counter wagon as soon as the opportunity opened up. He also said he was going to update his readslist tomorrow on Friday, and he still hasn't followed up on it. On one hand I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he was busier than he intended, and I ended up posting later than I meant to once as well, but part of me feels he's just not bothering anymore because the pressure's been shifted to Sesq instead.

Sesq isn't a terrible lynch, but the way it built up didn't make much sense either. It seemed mostly based on their play here not lining up with their town meta, which sort of makes sense but unless their play here is similar to their scum game it might just be NAI. A lot of players have talked about their lack of motivation in this game, and it's debatable how much of this is genuine or just an excuse but it's wide-spread enough to where I can see Sesq just not being at their A-game this game. Just looking at this game specifically, I'm struggling to see a definite scum agenda to their play. I'm annoyed by their limited scum-reads and coasting behavior, but at the same time they clearly don't care about the impression they give off and they're not super motivated to start a counter-wagon, even going as far as to town-read volxen. It almost feels like they're playing to get lynched in some aspects, which honestly does make some sense as a scum play-style, but I'm kind of iffy on it.

Volxen is still my preferred lynch today. I'm not too opposed to a sesq lynch but I have a lot more reservations about it compared to volxen. Toranga/Dunn are my weakest nulls right now, so I probably won't cry a river over their lynches either, but volxen makes the most sense to me right now tbh.
Btw this is one of those posts that put Reundo firmly into never-lynch territory
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Post Post #1515 (isolation #123) » Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:37 am

Post by Nauci »

In post 308, the worst wrote:you have me so pocketed rn

VOTE: Sesq

i think i owe E a meta dive, i might have my read on him completely upside down
TW could be scum, taking the opportunity to counter-wagon
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Post Post #1517 (isolation #124) » Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:42 am

Post by Nauci »

In post 981, Nauci wrote: - based on vc 1.13 I want to say that I don’t know how I feel about the sesq wagon but am going to re-skim for who became complacent/quiet after the cw popped up (sadly, this is most relevant to Volxen)[/spoiler]
In post 344, Flicker wrote:Votecount 1.11

Sesq (4)
- Dunnstral , northsidegal , the worst , volxen
volxen (4)
- Reundo , Sesq , Keyser Söze , Ausuka
Toranaga (1)
- Irrelephant
[2 718281828459] (1)
- Kop

Not voting: Toranaga , [2 718281828459]

The deadline for Day 1 is 1:52 pm CT on Tuesday, September 4, in (expired on 2018-09-04 14:51:53).

Mod notes
  • - Ausuka has been prodded. She has (expired on 2018-09-02 10:23:45) to post before I start searching for her replacement.
    -
    @northsidegal
    : After deliberation, I have decided to stick to my original deadline extension of pausing at 48 hours until the last replacement is filled (if necessary).
Not sure if I can really evaluate who was complacent during the sesq wagon, but I credit Reundo and Toranga with hard steering it back onto volxen highly unnecessarily, with Reundo having the full credit of creating it in the first place. TW's vote made it officially a flash wagon, but I don't give it as much credit.

I gave ausuka credit because she first joined it in a very normal town empty vote to make pressure wagons manner, and same with sesq, before joining the flash wagon at the end of the day. Not sure if I should give as much credit as I do here, but it's what my gut feels?
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Post Post #1518 (isolation #125) » Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:44 am

Post by Nauci »

Irrelephant since it's no longer the weekend: I expect effort posts again! By which I mostly mean, what do you think of my case on Keyser?
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Post Post #1519 (isolation #126) » Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:46 am

Post by Nauci »

In post 1511, Keyser Söze wrote: I have allowed you to case me. . But you’re now scraping the barrel talking about emoticons and formatting. You are diseased with confirm bias Nauci.
That was a super minor side note in my overall case. If you want to refute it, you'll have to link me town games where over half of your posts were defensive to the point of manipulation.
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Post Post #1521 (isolation #127) » Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:55 am

Post by Nauci »

=30260]The scum game from Toranga I skimmed didn't really help me read him. Seems like he is active and posts very genuine sounding scum hunting as scum, so my read of him is basically entirely due to volxen interactions/votes. :<
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Post Post #1522 (isolation #128) » Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:58 am

Post by Nauci »

In post 1520, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 1519, Nauci wrote:
In post 1511, Keyser Söze wrote: I have allowed you to case me. . But you’re now scraping the barrel talking about emoticons and formatting. You are diseased with confirm bias Nauci.
That was a super minor side note in my overall case. If you want to refute it, you'll have to link me town games where over half of your posts were defensive to the point of manipulation.
Defensiveness is not scummy.
I may write a book on this, after this game.


[I will reply to all your points before the day finishes though in ONE post (as a bookmark you can refer to for this game and all future games).]

For now, I'm interested to hear your thoughts on Dunn/TW/Eragon (not me).
I hadn't fleshed out my notes on TW but otherwise commented on all 3 already.

PEdit: GUH the way ISO links are sometimes formatted breaks tags and I have to manually edit them but I didn't catch that one and now it's an ugly post :<

Mmmk it's 6 AM apparently and I should sleep good luck y'all
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Post Post #1523 (isolation #129) » Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:01 am

Post by Nauci »

In post 1520, Keyser Söze wrote: Defensiveness is not scummy.
This is true, but it can be scummy in the context that it was the bulk of your posting in lieu of scum hunting, with the tone you used while doing it, and compared to other games
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Post Post #1563 (isolation #130) » Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:16 am

Post by Nauci »

In post 1527, Eragon wrote:
In post 1467, Nauci wrote:I don't know if it's alignment indicative that Eragon has the same psyduck.mp4 reaction to it that I did
psyduck 0.0?

where psyduck?

im quite... confused :3


ok got to get to school kbye
just seemed like you were as confused by why he would post the stuff he did as I was
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Post Post #1566 (isolation #131) » Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:20 am

Post by Nauci »

In post 1548, Eragon wrote:@nauci

I agree with you on Keyser being scum, but I feel more strongly about Dunn being scum, and it seems you think Dunn might be scum too?
Vote Dunn today, we lynch scum, and then tommorow you can push Keyser and we can sort that out
Eh, a Dunn flip would be the most telling for my reads, I think
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Post Post #1568 (isolation #132) » Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:23 am

Post by Nauci »

Irrelephant if you turn out to be scum this game I am going to be SO mad
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Post Post #1569 (isolation #133) » Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:26 am

Post by Nauci »

In post 1483, Keyser Söze wrote:If Dunnstral flips town/scum does that effect your read on me?
In post 1496, Keyser Söze wrote:I’ll take it as a compliment you are scum reading me.

If Eragon is actually town who is trapped in confirmation bias / suffocating paranoia, so be it.

All my actions (even though innocent and NAI) are being scum read by Eragon and Nauci - but I’m ok with that. I like the content and rationale behind Nauci’s other reads though. If she opposes the Eragon lynch strongly there’s only one way to go and end today:

Dunn’s flip
. the ultimate info lynch for D2. If he flips town, I’ll probably need to replace out though.
In post 1497, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 1359, Keyser Söze wrote:VOTE: Eragon

Probably gonna stay here for the rest of D2.

Dunnstral vs Eragon wagons competing makes most sense in my reads universe. Not going to give any town-scum, scum-scum association theory until we see a flip.
I may need to go back on my promise.

VOTE: Dunnstral

Sorry mate. I needed more tangible town motivation in your ISO to defend you with. In the end, I’ll have to concede and say WIFOM isn’t going to outweigh the surface level scummy actions in your D1/D2 behaviour. I hope to play again with you, but hopefully it’s in a game that engages/excites you.


Let’s end Day 2.
I'm not understanding your thought process for this progression. Can you explain?

Do you think that if I oppose an Eragon lynch, then it's not possible, and therefore you're going to push Dunn, even though you think Eragon is the scum here? I mean I normally have more vote shifting clout but not in this game; everyone's a great player who doesn't just sheep others.
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Post Post #1570 (isolation #134) » Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:28 am

Post by Nauci »

I feel like I need to reread my ausuka notes and analyze her ISO but there won't be time for it today
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Post Post #1571 (isolation #135) » Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:29 am

Post by Nauci »

VOTE: dunnstral

I think my keyser read does change depending on dunn's flip

I think this is -1?
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Post Post #1584 (isolation #136) » Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:29 pm

Post by Nauci »

Huh

I realize that the remaining mafia needed to kill someone who is unlikely to be watched but wow I thought that one of the really active posters would have gone down

But Dunn/Ausuka are ridiculously useful flips IMO

Also gj everyone on dunking scum two days in a row \o/
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Post Post #1585 (isolation #137) » Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:29 pm

Post by Nauci »

P.S. VOTE: Keyser Söze
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Post Post #1592 (isolation #138) » Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:37 pm

Post by Nauci »

Oh I totally missed that :o

Well played indeed, Ausuka
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Post Post #1679 (isolation #139) » Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:02 pm

Post by Nauci »

NSG is like 5000000% town unless she's secretly been capable of superb scum theater unbeknownst to us all, btw
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Post Post #1680 (isolation #140) » Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:08 pm

Post by Nauci »

That's 3 players who see the same weirdness from Keyser this game and at least 2 of us aren't scum lol

People who hard town read Keyser: what's the thing that has you most convinced he's town?
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Post Post #1681 (isolation #141) » Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:09 pm

Post by Nauci »

I'm suuuuuuper busy for a while but maybe I'll have catch up time Saturday
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Post Post #1702 (isolation #142) » Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:44 pm

Post by Nauci »

I think the biggest reason most of Keyser's defensive posts kept reading as scummy af to me is because he almost always resort to "OMG town does this thing too IT'S A TERRIBLE REASON TO SR ME" instead of explaining the thought process for why he did a thing in this particular game and context.
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Post Post #1703 (isolation #143) » Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:49 pm

Post by Nauci »

In post 1603, Eragon wrote:wow... ok then...

im like 95% confident last scum is in (keyser/NSG)

i could see TW, but i just really dont...

VOTE: Keyser Soze


p-edit: Tora, those posts are hot damn...
You think NSG would have bussed Dunnstral that hard through Keyser's objections?
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Post Post #1704 (isolation #144) » Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:49 pm

Post by Nauci »

In post 1609, Toranaga wrote:last scum is actually incredibly hard to figure out and I can see eragon's posts on d2 as not w/w with dunn as well

I really don't know where to go.

are we sure nauci is town?
Yeah, you are
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Post Post #1705 (isolation #145) » Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:52 pm

Post by Nauci »

In post 1613, Eragon wrote:
In post 1579, Flicker wrote:Votecount 2.28 - FINAL

Dunnstral (6)
- northsidegal ,
Eragon
,
Toranaga
, Keyser Söze ,
Nauci
, the worst
Eragon (3)
-
Irrelephant11
,
Dunnstral
,
Ausuka

Ausuka (1)
-
Reundo


Not voting: N/A

A lynch has been achieved!
this is yesterday's final VC, it really tells us nothing, but when you put it to the VC at the top of the same page, TW was voting me, and when it seemed there was no turning back from a dunn lynch, he hammered.

also, he gave up his dunn TR with "eh, maybe i was dreaming it"

and then finally, his fake hammer on dunn for ?false spew?


p-edit:UNVOTE: Keyser
ill give ya time m8
I'm like 99% sure that the last scum is Keyser or TW but the NK points me to Keyser because TW would have shot within keyser/irrelephant/myself/nsg, which is much more threatening to his existence than going for a NK for WIFOM purposes. Unless TW doesn't think any of us are all that good, in which case :cry:
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Post Post #1706 (isolation #146) » Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:54 pm

Post by Nauci »

I guess I can't 100% rule out irrelephant or toranaga

but I 100% rule out nsg/reundo/eragon/myself

P.S. Sorry Toranaga for being illiterate and thinking your name was Toranga for days
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Post Post #1707 (isolation #147) » Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:59 pm

Post by Nauci »

In post 1648, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 1642, Eragon wrote:
In post 1539, the worst wrote:lynch Eragon not Dunn
the fuck
In post 1573, the worst wrote:
In post 1539, the worst wrote:lynch Eragon not Dunn
the fuck
In post 1576, the worst wrote:actually I think I dreamed up reasons to townread Dunn
VOTE: Dunnstral
if this greens Eragon tmrw obviously and we have his partner in the fucks who tried to manipulate the wagon : ]
In post 1615, the worst wrote:KING DUCKLING
LOLHAMMERING SCUM SINCE 2K18

brb
i dont really think that these posts feel natural to me with Dunn interactions
This is the Worst’s dance.

He’ll do exactly what you expect and don’t expect in an over the top performance.

Strip away the music, and you’re left with a distancing attempt and healthy dose of WIFOM that he can fall back on.
Well this is a good genuine call out of many of the things that have made me think TW was scum here

but would TW really roll scum against me this many times

poor sod
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Post Post #1708 (isolation #148) » Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:01 pm

Post by Nauci »

Okay I've concluded that until I have a couple of days to dig through Reundo's game history I'm not sure of anything
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Post Post #1709 (isolation #149) » Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:10 pm

Post by Nauci »

In post 1684, northsidegal wrote:eragon scum being based off of how dunnstral came at me when i noted the punctuation thing about kop in much the same way that he only really showed up to attack the people scumreading volxen

ducky scum being based off of potential overconfidence in volxen's scumflip and maybe the eragon wagon / position on dunnstral day two (obviously given town!eragon if ducky!scum)

toranaga scum being based off of just my own personal scumread, as well as i guess the really weird way that his dunnstral read flipped like 10 times during the first few days of Day 2
Pretty sure we caught Dunn because he specifically went after every and only the easy opportunities for things to call out instead of any in depth thought processes, and challenging you on a read like that was top 3 easiest things to fake nuanced views on
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Post Post #1710 (isolation #150) » Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:11 pm

Post by Nauci »

based purely on VCA, it's Ducky
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Post Post #1711 (isolation #151) » Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:12 pm

Post by Nauci »

In post 1684, northsidegal wrote:eragon scum being based off of how dunnstral came at me when i noted the punctuation thing about kop in much the same way that he only really showed up to attack the people scumreading volxen

ducky scum being based off of potential overconfidence in volxen's scumflip and maybe the eragon wagon / position on dunnstral day two (obviously given town!eragon if ducky!scum)

toranaga scum being based off of just my own personal scumread, as well as i guess the really weird way that his dunnstral read flipped like 10 times during the first few days of Day 2
Also that sort of flipping back and forth almost invariably comes from town and I'm pretty sure MathDino would back me on this one
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Post Post #1713 (isolation #152) » Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:19 pm

Post by Nauci »

I'm going to take a hard look at Reundo but I'd like to request that everyone currently townreading him re-evaluate Keyser. Can you put into words why you feel Keyser is definitely town? I can put into words why I town read all of the people I town read, but I feel like the town reads on Keyser are sort of coasting on the fact that he's posting with high effort, without seeing the pacing and narrative of his moves and considering the possibility that he's scum here.

I'm also going to re-evaluate Irrelephant, but my gut says that he would have done more to prevent his partners from getting lynched because this is a difficult game to deepwolf.
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Post Post #1716 (isolation #153) » Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:28 pm

Post by Nauci »

In post 1714, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 1702, Nauci wrote:I think the biggest reason most of Keyser's defensive posts kept reading as scummy af to me is because he almost always resort to "OMG town does this thing too IT'S A TERRIBLE REASON TO SR ME" instead of explaining the thought process for why he did a thing in this particular game and context.
I did make one final defence post pointing out that all your reasons to scum read me were a) not alignment indicative b) wrong c) strong evidence of you being caught in confirmation bias :good:
At almost no points in your many posts have I felt like I had a window into what you were thinking, only that what you said wasn't alignment indicative. So you responded by saying that it wasn't alignment indicative. :|
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Post Post #1776 (isolation #154) » Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:36 am

Post by Nauci »

In post 1747, Keyser Söze wrote:(We’re not the old couple in the bed spooning, watch the video)
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Post Post #1777 (isolation #155) » Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:37 am

Post by Nauci »

In post 1751, Toranaga wrote:if TW is scum all I can say is thanks @ everyone for being so goddamn towny the entire time and carrying the game as a collective
Yeah it feels like the game was too easy...
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Post Post #1778 (isolation #156) » Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:38 am

Post by Nauci »

In post 1752, Irrelephant11 wrote:I would suggest at some point if we have a consensus lynchpool, the watcher, if they're in that lynchpool, should claim
If tw is watcher he should claim now I think, he's already at L-2 iirc
I don't understand this

I thought we already established that watcher is only useful if they claim with results otherwise they get shot and we lose a night of potential results

Wait no I see what you're doing

Nevermind
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Post Post #1779 (isolation #157) » Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:41 am

Post by Nauci »

In post 1762, northsidegal wrote:i would place reundo as being more likely to be scum than the duck

and checking my iso i just realized i'm still voting the duck, so oops
VOTE: reundo
Pls explain

Dankeschön
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Post Post #1791 (isolation #158) » Fri Sep 21, 2018 10:57 am

Post by Nauci »

I don't think we'll make much progress until reundo posts again
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Post Post #1806 (isolation #159) » Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:56 pm

Post by Nauci »

VOTE: The Worst

TBH I don't think it's a great idea for us to chase each other around paranoidly in circles when Occam's Razor got us as far as it did
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Post Post #1807 (isolation #160) » Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:58 pm

Post by Nauci »

Reundo's town game posting makes my ISOs look like post it notes, god damn.

The only thing remotely shady to me about his ISO this game was the bit about not even being worried I was pocketing him. Something about making a show of NOT calling it out bugged me

but I don't understand why scum reundo would voice disapproval about dunnstral being lynched when he couldn't stop it?
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Post Post #1809 (isolation #161) » Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:30 pm

Post by Nauci »

In post 1308, Reundo wrote:Meh, I'm not too happy with this lynch, but it is what it is. Let's see if we can't get some spicy twilight reactions from Dunn.
I was referring to this post
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Post Post #1822 (isolation #162) » Sat Sep 22, 2018 2:22 am

Post by Nauci »

duck

i have things to do with my life that aren't 6-8 hours/day 7 days a week of mafia tryharding in just this game

if what ive contributed thus far isn't powerhouse enough, then kindly gtfo my apparently-regular house; ive already contributed enough information to sort what there is to sort short of new information coming in

side note, not sure if ill ever see irrelephant so fired up as when he needed to defend our scum butts
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Post Post #1873 (isolation #163) » Sun Sep 23, 2018 12:14 am

Post by Nauci »

In post 1834, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 1831, Toranaga wrote:VOTE: reundo

scummy af entrance
Yeah, Reundo had the worst entrance out of every player.

Reundo still demonstrating the inability to post in real time.



So is that his thing, post enough to pull of a clinical bus of his teammate and cash in towncred galore, day two doesn’t know what to do as he witnesses his scum mate being savaged, a wagon he was half hesitant with...?

After consulting my teammates, IT’S SIMPLY NOT GOOD ENOUGH :evil:

Image



You no longer deserve the cloak of invincibility I bestowed upon you!
I WANT JUICE
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Post Post #1876 (isolation #164) » Sun Sep 23, 2018 12:19 am

Post by Nauci »

I'm not loving Toranaga's posts today

idk if it means scum reading or anything just

I don't like the posts themselves

okay super busy through Monday I finally do my training to foster kittens in the morning! ~toodles
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Post Post #1885 (isolation #165) » Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:52 am

Post by Nauci »

In post 1854, the worst wrote:
In post 1850, Keyser Söze wrote:Hmmm... the Reundo in this game has lost his voice.

There is no soul in his posts!



It’s like a demon has possessed the body of Reundo and is trying to mimic him! :o
thank you--this is what I'm feeling too.
he's transparently good at town, this feels like him trying to mimic that.

and I don't think he strongly bussed his partners? but yes his reactions are completely within the range of what i'd expect from scum!Reundo
After what you said about me in American Presidents I'm like never ever trusting you're evaluations of people being in or out of their meta without heaps of evidence ever again
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Post Post #1904 (isolation #166) » Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:37 am

Post by Nauci »

In post 1887, Toranaga wrote:GNB's posts are not towny

I normally can't read tl;dr stuff because I get bored 2 lines into it and move to something else, so I've been brief skimming and townreading effort on whatever GNB did without any evaluation, really. but now I read every word he posted, and he made 2 kinds of posts: NAI mech talk posts that looks wrong on a surface and isn't actually helpful at all for anyone; surface level reads and commentary on the game that looks like scum.
In post 55, GameNBurger wrote:Keyser I will say I’ve preferred to just call out lurkers based on ratios of post and if it’s awful ask they replace or change
I don’t see lurking as a valid town playstyle personally

Keyser if you haven’t played wih sesq before from what I rmember sesq has a laizefair attitude and tone to their posts and keeps to themself or atleast that’s how I rmember his playstyle looking

Although to be fair I played scum with them I think the last time I played with them
I think keyser is being a bit stiff on all the sesq stuff

I’ve addressed Northsidegals points already how I disagree with letting people be shit at passing basketballs just because they’re atleast passing it to people on the correct team but do chime in with more questions North if I’ve missed anything

Irrelephant you aren’t trying to distance yourself from me by addressing my direct question with an indirect tense response right? ;) You don’t have to be afraid, you can adress me and I promise I won’t bite

Uh I got nothing else to say right now that caught my eye

Feel free to ask anything, it helps me since I’m often phoneposting

Pedit: how can I write anything gamesolvery when I don’t think a majority of the players have even posted????
this sesq defense catches my eye because he is not pointing at anything towny sesq is doing, and then lightly pushing keyser for being "stiff", but that read doesn't go anywhere. the rest is descriptive or blend. #108 is his other big post with reads, but it's really lacking in any reads and it's just defending himself/pushing people that push sesq/lots of descripting things and explaining his own mindset. I actually don't like this now.

lemme read everything reundo posted next.
Yes thank you that is exactly how I felt about GNB posts

Like he relied on generic sentiments he has as town

But I never saw him post anything that was a thought process or reaction that could only really be from a town perspective in this game
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Post Post #1907 (isolation #167) » Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:42 am

Post by Nauci »

In post 1895, Keyser Söze wrote:I preferably want a TW vs Reundo fight to the death today.
In post 1896, Keyser Söze wrote:Reundo’s 3-hit strike on Volxen is remarkable but what else in his ISO says town?
Your reasons for flip flopping your confident reads on Reundo this game have been thin af

And it reads as grossly opportunistic

Maybe you made a mistake killing ausuka when she was a more viable mislynch for you =P

Like I'll vote TW today if it's the most concensus read but between this and the flip on Dunnstral when the Eragon wagon ground to a halt, I am so extremely suspicious of this slot and prefer to lynch here
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Post Post #1916 (isolation #168) » Sun Sep 23, 2018 12:13 pm

Post by Nauci »

Keyser/TW interactions might just be the bestest thing right now :popcorn:
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Post Post #1919 (isolation #169) » Sun Sep 23, 2018 12:17 pm

Post by Nauci »

In post 1912, the worst wrote:
In post 1911, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 1908, the worst wrote:hardclaim opportunistic cornered town
I'll lynch Keyser over myself if you all agree not to mislynch me if he flips town

I'm just super worried we're both in the same position of having been irreparably PoE'd
Are myself and Reundo your bottom two reads now?
I haven't hard reassessed my reads based on the last few pages but you're dropping hard :c I still think Reundo needs to die before endgame but I think your flip is close to being a necessity

That said lynching through both of us feels.. bad
This might be the scummiest post in the game
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Post Post #1920 (isolation #170) » Sun Sep 23, 2018 12:18 pm

Post by Nauci »

In post 1918, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 1916, Nauci wrote:Keyser/TW interactions might just be the bestest thing right now :popcorn:
Great thing is, as this is an open setup everyone knows this isn’t scum theatre :giggle:

Coz it reeks of it if you were to take a step back :giggle:
Ya if I didn't know y'all were sorting each other and only one of you is scum I'd definitely say off with both of your heads after that
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Post Post #1921 (isolation #171) » Sun Sep 23, 2018 12:19 pm

Post by Nauci »

Pivoting to new viable mislynch targets as scum is an art form and I've only seen Irrelephant11 do it with absolute grace on this site
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Post Post #2052 (isolation #172) » Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:10 pm

Post by Nauci »

my POE is keyser/toranaga/reundo but it's really more like

keyser
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
toranaga
reundo

lol

but before we start voting and whatnot

Reundo can you write out your full thoughts on why you think keyser is scummy, and why it couldn't be me/eragon/irrelephant
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Post Post #2053 (isolation #173) » Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:11 pm

Post by Nauci »

I don't want you to just coast through in my blind spot for agreeing with me I want your own detailed words and references

like it should be clear that you'll have to do some work today to get keyser lynched over you, nevermind toranaga
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Post Post #2057 (isolation #174) » Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:32 pm

Post by Nauci »

In post 2056, Toranaga wrote:reundo with the scummy posting.

saying 3 people are never scum here isn't the sort of confidence you're supposed to have.

I don't like that you're stalling yet again instead of posting your thoughts. seems like you're avoiding doing so cause crafting the fake reads will take a lot of effort from you
I mean I do this all the time as town because writing up giant walls of careful analysis takes time regardless of alignment?
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Post Post #2058 (isolation #175) » Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:33 pm

Post by Nauci »

like let's evaluate the actual thoughts and not when any of us have an extra 4 hours to bang out some mafia essays
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Post Post #2064 (isolation #176) » Wed Sep 26, 2018 4:47 pm

Post by Nauci »

In post 2059, Toranaga wrote:
In post 2057, Nauci wrote:
In post 2056, Toranaga wrote:reundo with the scummy posting.

saying 3 people are never scum here isn't the sort of confidence you're supposed to have.

I don't like that you're stalling yet again instead of posting your thoughts. seems like you're avoiding doing so cause crafting the fake reads will take a lot of effort from you
I mean I do this all the time as town because writing up giant walls of careful analysis takes time regardless of alignment?
he did that last gameday as well if you don't remember
personally I think we hammered way too quickly d2 when there was plenty of time left for more analysis

I owe a sincere apology to TW :(

I realized too late that I was scum reading not for TW scum tells but for generic ones which don't really apply to him

should have stuck with my guns wrt keyser, who just continues to feel disingenuous even when I try to go back and reread his ISO in a different light
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Post Post #2069 (isolation #177) » Thu Sep 27, 2018 12:30 am

Post by Nauci »

Someday we'll all Hydra together

It'll be a 300 page game
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Post Post #2107 (isolation #178) » Thu Sep 27, 2018 12:12 pm

Post by Nauci »

In post 2071, Irrelephant11 wrote:NSG's last words were to not let Toranaga make it to endgame
Seems like others will be casing Keyser and Reundo first so I'm gonna do Tora first - I will be surprised if I find him to be the best lynch, but someone's gotta honor nsg's legacy or whatever

I do think we ought to be thorough enough to examine me/nauci/eragon closer... We've all been riding towncred from early anti-associational moments that may or may not deserve the full townreads we've received. It would be nice if we could be sure on all three of our slots, though.

Slightly disappointed to be here this game day, I was hoping I could watch nsg solve the game from the dead thread
I wanted to do a fresh read of you just in case but I am sooooo busy rn
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Post Post #2108 (isolation #179) » Thu Sep 27, 2018 12:15 pm

Post by Nauci »

[quote="In post 2080, Irrelephant11"][/quote]

I put him in my town block because I didn't think newb scum volxen would throw his partner(s) into that "THESE GUYS ARE LURKING TOO LOOK AT THEM INSTEAD" post he made

and also for his play, but more for that
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Post Post #2109 (isolation #180) » Thu Sep 27, 2018 12:20 pm

Post by Nauci »

weeeeeird what happened to the post I quoted

I didn't edit anything
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Post Post #2126 (isolation #181) » Thu Sep 27, 2018 6:09 pm

Post by Nauci »

I'm so sorry guys but I can't handle playing rn with the news triggering panic attacks regularly. I only have the bandwidth for my mod duties which take priority.

@mod
I'll be V/LA through Monday, but possibly able to post on Saturday.
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Post Post #2132 (isolation #182) » Fri Sep 28, 2018 1:27 pm

Post by Nauci »

I made this for if Keyser is town here

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Post Post #2137 (isolation #183) » Fri Sep 28, 2018 3:29 pm

Post by Nauci »

I made it during the night phase because of what TW said about him and the bet I had

I mean, I did say he can choose my avatar but I hope this is chosen
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Post Post #2138 (isolation #184) » Fri Sep 28, 2018 3:30 pm

Post by Nauci »

Shitposting is a true form of therapy for the stress levels these days
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Post Post #2144 (isolation #185) » Sat Sep 29, 2018 8:12 am

Post by Nauci »

In post 2143, Toranaga wrote:why are the news triggering panic attacks? where do you live, nauci?
the US

an entire week saturated with men shitting all over sexual assault survivors in order to put one on the Supreme Court \o/

survivors have had a rough
week
month
year
time since 11/8/2016
time since our assault(s)
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Post Post #2145 (isolation #186) » Sat Sep 29, 2018 8:14 am

Post by Nauci »

In post 2140, Toranaga wrote:
In post 1969, Reundo wrote:I never got a chance to do my catch up! :( It was basically just going to end up with me listing a bunch of reasons why I wanted to lynch the worst anyways. Still disappointed you guys decided to hammer w/o hearing from me first, but that's basically my fault for being so inactive these past couple of days. Sorry about that everyone.
In post 2055, Reundo wrote:
In post 2052, Nauci wrote: but before we start voting and whatnot

Reundo can you write out your full thoughts on why you think keyser is scummy, and why it couldn't be me/eragon/irrelephant
Yeah, sure. I'll try to work on this over today/tomorrow.
In post 2127, Reundo wrote:I'm really sorry, I haven't had the time or motivation to gather my thoughts yet. I'll have to postpone my catch-up till at least Friday, but I'll try my hardest not to let you guys down.
can we end this game now?
I would prefer if we waited through at LEAST end of day Monday if not Tuesday, because over half of the game isn't around on the weekend

If you don't and he flips green I will end you the next day if I've not been shot

also I want to see Keyser's write up of me
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Post Post #2148 (isolation #187) » Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:18 pm

Post by Nauci »

Shoutouts to men who weren't just gang raping errybody in high school/college amirite

Gorsuch went to the same school and didn't have allegations against him

Brett is just straight out of any 80s movie
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Post Post #2179 (isolation #188) » Sun Sep 30, 2018 10:40 pm

Post by Nauci »

In post 2177, Eragon wrote:This is from reundo:


"This complete 180 on me doesn't make any sense at all, and I feel the only reason he's completely changing his read on me is that it's clear I'm a viable mislynch target and that scum-reading me is the new cool and popular opinion to have. This constant flip-flopping of me being town or scum makes absolutely no sense from town, and neither does his constant flip-flopping of his read on Dunnstral."

what about my flip flops on Keyser?
are those wolfy?
I bring this up because I thought Keyser sounded odd, was told that that was just him, close to locktowned him, and then scumread him heavily, and now(yesterday) TR him
I want Reundo to answer in his own words, but I found your read changes narrated with posts that showed your thought processes, while Keyser and TW's did not
In post 2178, Eragon wrote:also, I find it funny.

Reundo says
"I think Keyser is the scummiest person here, so ill do his ISO first"
>spends forever working on Keyser's ISO.
"Oh Keyser is super scummy how hasn't he been lynched yet"
>does nothing else except just make that single gigantic case on his already-confident scumread
If there's only 1 scum left in the game, and one have one confident scum read, what if it's actually just on scum?

I mean personally, I still think the scummiest player all game has been Keyser for all sorts of psychological reads. I'd say there's a chance it's reundo or toranaga (that thought struck me at like 3 AM last night but I don't have time to re-evaluate for a while), but that it's rather slim.

Keyser, did you still feel that you'd be okay with being lynched so long as reundo was lynched after, like you offered yesteray?

Side note, I wish I had a dollar for every time scum sacrificially offered to be in a lynch-chain. I could buy a foot long sub.
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Post Post #2204 (isolation #189) » Tue Oct 02, 2018 7:12 am

Post by Nauci »

I've got a 103 fever but I don't feel like I need to post very much in this current game state so I won't replace out for now and will just give my evaluation of the Keyser and reundo mega posts when they're done

VOTE: Keyser Söze

Willing to spice things up a little

Not sure if I'd be able to form decent reads if Keyser is town but unflipped at this point; all roads are kinda leading to Rome
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Post Post #2211 (isolation #190) » Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:25 pm

Post by Nauci »

In post 2202, Reundo wrote:Sorry for the radio silence. I'll get my Toranaga ISO done tonight.
Yeah okay this is now scummy even by my standards
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Post Post #2249 (isolation #191) » Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:34 am

Post by Nauci »

In post 2231, Keyser Söze wrote:Are we ever going to lynch Nauci/ Tora/Eragon/Irrelephant?

If not, lynch me today, then force Reundo to look at everyone.
OK

VOTE: Keyser Söze
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Post Post #2250 (isolation #192) » Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:40 am

Post by Nauci »

In post 2240, Reundo wrote:I'm not really sure. I guess on a subconscious level I care more about how I come off than I really should, and I think that plays into why I don't post that much. I also think my drive for playing mafia is kind of waning a bit. Like, if I get started on posting then I'd probably spend a good few hours straight analyzing the game, but finding the motivation to actually get started writing something is kind of hard for me. Whenever I try to post something it takes me way longer than it should, like I'd pop in hoping to whip up a quick post in 10 minutes and it ends up taking me an hour for some reason, and the sheer time sink required from me just steers me away from posting in general, and I've had a lot less time on my hands overall than I used to.
Whatever your alignment is, I'm with you on this one.

I have so much trouble casually posting that I'd procrastinate on really playing like it's homework.
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Post Post #2270 (isolation #193) » Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:24 am

Post by Nauci »

TBH I kinda just skimmed Reundo's posts but I can't get over the reasons I have for scum reading Keyser

Short list that's probably not comprehensive (am on mobile at a doctor's office because I was accidentally 90 minutes early oops)

-Total lack of calling out Volxen's weird obsession with him (there's like no universe where the town Keyser I know would just ignore this)
-VCA that makes sense as scum: it was too late to jump off of the volxen train by the time he got back to the thread; his changes on dunnstral were
-Weird flip flopping on dunnstral that was very... self conscious
-non-stop defense by saying that things I and others have called him out on are things town would do, totally ignoring their context, INSTEAD of explaining how he arrived at those views
-spent a lot more time actively trying to dictate the game state/pace that far outweighed presenting cases and evidence (which feels pretty similar to his play here)
-I read a lot of Keyser posts I could understand the motivation for in AP and here

Like as far as I can tell, the case y'all have one Reundo is low activity compared to his other game?

But can anyone show me where Keyser's scum read changes ever made sense? Like even his pivot to Reundo after hard town reading him? That pivot was like grossly opportunistic to me. Same with the hard pivot to scum reading TW. All of the pivots were when someone else gave reasons to doubt someone, like when Irrelephant and I questioned TW's posting or when Irrelephant questioned Reundo. Every time we have Keyser + someone else in our bottom 2 he pushes the other player HARD.

Like I just don't see why people town read Keyser besides post count, which is totally non-alignment indicative for him.

P.S. Keyser since you're talking a lot about Reundo being tunneled, what are your reads? Did you ever end up doing the ISO of me you promised like, last weekend or something?
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Post Post #2274 (isolation #194) » Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:28 am

Post by Nauci »

In post 2261, Irrelephant11 wrote:oh wait it's actually just lylo because there isn't a no lynch option
Let's see

If we lynch Reundo and he flips town
Someone claims watcher tomorrow, and they pretty much get to pick the lynch (unless scum is out-there enough to cc, which I doubt)
Keyser, if town & not watcher, has a reaalllll uphill battle to find and lynch scum
Keyser, if scum, has an uphill battle to lynch tor

I'm just gonna interrupt myself to say IF IT'S ERAGON, SO HELP ME

If we flip Keyser and he's town
Reundo just gets lynched, I guess, since he's already claimed backup and is the obvious PoE

Since Reundo's lynch is more inevitable than Keyser's, I think it makes more sense to lynch him today? Plus then we don't have to deal with "oops we outed Keyser the watcher AND Reundo flipped town"
'cause the watcher is our best hope of fixing a mislynch either way

Whatever let's flip Reundo already, in honor of the worst
Can you do the exercise of looking at whether Keyser's various vote changes/pushes have made sense to you from a town perspective? If so, can you explain them to me?

Because I absolutely just do not see them, while I very much understand the bits of reundo's posts I've had time to read. I'll go read them now since I"ve got another half hour to burn here lol.

But then I'm out the rest of the day because I'm getting my eyes dilated again lol. BUT SOON I WILL HAVE LASIK AND SEE SUPER GUD (well, theoretically by Oct 20)
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Post Post #2275 (isolation #195) » Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:29 am

Post by Nauci »

In post 2272, Irrelephant11 wrote:if it's keyser, nauci and reundo deserve an award
I unvoted because I'm willing to wait for Keyser to answer Nauci's question
I am not wanting Keyser to answer me though because he has repeatedly shown me that his answer is "but town also does X"

I want YOU and Tor and Eragon to look at my points and try to follow Keyser's narratives and trains of thought
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Post Post #2276 (isolation #196) » Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:31 am

Post by Nauci »

In post 2273, Toranaga wrote:it's done already though, you don't get to unvote a maj
ffffffffffffffffuuuuuu that was a hammer?
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Post Post #2284 (isolation #197) » Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:55 am

Post by Nauci »

In post 2278, Irrelephant11 wrote:no keyser had unvoted I think
Damnit lol I was playing along after seeing your hammer tests get ruined so many times
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Post Post #2285 (isolation #198) » Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:57 am

Post by Nauci »

I TRIED SO HARD

AND GOT SO FAR

but in the end

Still waiting for the doooooctor
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Post Post #2288 (isolation #199) » Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:26 am

Post by Nauci »

Spoiler: reundo's post on Keyser iso page 2
In post 2172, Reundo wrote:Now, onto dissecting the second page of Keyser's ISO... The spoiler's tag still not working for me, so sorry for the incoming wall.
In post 1497, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 1359, Keyser Söze wrote:VOTE: Eragon

Probably gonna stay here for the rest of D2.

Dunnstral vs Eragon wagons competing makes most sense in my reads universe. Not going to give any town-scum, scum-scum association theory until we see a flip.
I may need to go back on my promise.

VOTE: Dunnstral

Sorry mate. I needed more tangible town motivation in your ISO to defend you with. In the end, I’ll have to concede and say WIFOM isn’t going to outweigh the surface level scummy actions in your D1/D2 behaviour. I hope to play again with you, but hopefully it’s in a game that engages/excites you.


Let’s end Day 2.
Now Keyser does a complete 180 on Dunnstral, despite him advocating so hard against his lynch for so long. Now that it's obvious Dunn is probably getting lynched, scum!Keyser decides the best course of action is to bus his partner to try and cash in his town-cred, which explains the abrupt transition regarding his read of Dunn.
In post 1516, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 1513, Nauci wrote:
In post 387, Reundo wrote:I don't really understand why the volxen wagon died down the way it did. The only town points he got was from northsidegal for being contradictory, and while I can sort of see where northsidegal is coming from it doesn't feel like a particularly strong town-read, and the contradictions run much deeper than mere activity. Looking back on it, post #254 is a lot more petty than I realized. I could see why some of the posts volxen mentioned could be viewed as active lurking, but to not put any more thought into players than "oh, they're active lurking, they're probably scum" is incredibly lazy and narrow-minded. It actually feels like he's afraid of contradicting himself, as if scum-reading someone for doing X means he also has to scum-read everyone who does X, and I'm struggling to see how town can be so close-minded. He gives himself a lot of town points for "having reads and trying to game solve" while completely ignoring that 2.718 made an entire reads list, and the least he could've done was acknowledge that fact and explain why 2.718's reads list was lazy/active-lurking/whatever instead of trying to sweep it under the rug and hope no one notices.

His recent trajectory isn't much better either. 2.718 seemed to be his biggest scum-read, but when northsidegal started town-reading him volxen didn't even bat an eye or seem to care at all really, not even an acknowledgement akin to "well, I guess you have a point on 2.178", and he seemed too eager to hop onto a counter wagon as soon as the opportunity opened up. He also said he was going to update his readslist tomorrow on Friday, and he still hasn't followed up on it. On one hand I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he was busier than he intended, and I ended up posting later than I meant to once as well, but part of me feels he's just not bothering anymore because the pressure's been shifted to Sesq instead.

Sesq isn't a terrible lynch, but the way it built up didn't make much sense either. It seemed mostly based on their play here not lining up with their town meta, which sort of makes sense but unless their play here is similar to their scum game it might just be NAI. A lot of players have talked about their lack of motivation in this game, and it's debatable how much of this is genuine or just an excuse but it's wide-spread enough to where I can see Sesq just not being at their A-game this game. Just looking at this game specifically, I'm struggling to see a definite scum agenda to their play. I'm annoyed by their limited scum-reads and coasting behavior, but at the same time they clearly don't care about the impression they give off and they're not super motivated to start a counter-wagon, even going as far as to town-read volxen. It almost feels like they're playing to get lynched in some aspects, which honestly does make some sense as a scum play-style, but I'm kind of iffy on it.

Volxen is still my preferred lynch today. I'm not too opposed to a sesq lynch but I have a lot more reservations about it compared to volxen. Toranga/Dunn are my weakest nulls right now, so I probably won't cry a river over their lynches either, but volxen makes the most sense to me right now tbh.
Btw this is one of those posts that put Reundo firmly into never-lynch territory
Yep, I noted 3 great uppercuts from Reundo on Volxen from D1. #pivotal

In post 537, Keyser Söze wrote:Master Reundo won big town-cred from D1. After his awkward examination of me (once scummy, but now forgiven), Reundo changed up his focus and gave us a tour-de-force in delivering the Volxen lynch. Here are the 3 killer posts:
In post 119, Reundo wrote:volxen - His post-RVS introduction was pretty pointless and actually did nothing to add to the discussion. I get I might be kind of a hypocrite since similar things have been said about my introduction, but it seems even more exaggerated in that the distance between the post he was responding to and his actual post number were literally pages apart and that all he said was basically just paraphrasing what northsidegal said. A lean scum for me.
In post 220, Reundo wrote:I don't really understand the town-reads of volxen. Everything he's posted seems like surface-level scum-hunting based mostly around points that have already been brought up by others, and as a whole it seems like he's much more interested in garnering why player X scum-reads player Y than providing scum-reads of his own. I'm more worried about him than 2.718 at the moment.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: volxen
In post 387, Reundo wrote:I don't really understand why the volxen wagon died down the way it did. The only town points he got was from northsidegal for being contradictory, and while I can sort of see where northsidegal is coming from it doesn't feel like a particularly strong town-read, and the contradictions run much deeper than mere activity. Looking back on it, post #254 is a lot more petty than I realized. I could see why some of the posts volxen mentioned could be viewed as active lurking, but to not put any more thought into players than "oh, they're active lurking, they're probably scum" is incredibly lazy and narrow-minded. It actually feels like he's afraid of contradicting himself, as if scum-reading someone for doing X means he also has to scum-read everyone who does X, and I'm struggling to see how town can be so close-minded. He gives himself a lot of town points for "having reads and trying to game solve" while completely ignoring that 2.718 made an entire reads list, and the least he could've done was acknowledge that fact and explain why 2.718's reads list was lazy/active-lurking/whatever instead of trying to sweep it under the rug and hope no one notices.

His recent trajectory isn't much better either. 2.718 seemed to be his biggest scum-read, but when northsidegal started town-reading him volxen didn't even bat an eye or seem to care at all really, not even an acknowledgement akin to "well, I guess you have a point on 2.178", and he seemed too eager to hop onto a counter wagon as soon as the opportunity opened up. He also said he was going to update his readslist tomorrow on Friday, and he still hasn't followed up on it. On one hand I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he was busier than he intended, and I ended up posting later than I meant to once as well, but part of me feels he's just not bothering anymore because the pressure's been shifted to Sesq instead.

Sesq isn't a terrible lynch, but the way it built up didn't make much sense either. It seemed mostly based on their play here not lining up with their town meta, which sort of makes sense but unless their play here is similar to their scum game it might just be NAI. A lot of players have talked about their lack of motivation in this game, and it's debatable how much of this is genuine or just an excuse but it's wide-spread enough to where I can see Sesq just not being at their A-game this game. Just looking at this game specifically, I'm struggling to see a definite scum agenda to their play. I'm annoyed by their limited scum-reads and coasting behavior, but at the same time they clearly don't care about the impression they give off and they're not super motivated to start a counter-wagon, even going as far as to town-read volxen. It almost feels like they're playing to get lynched in some aspects, which honestly does make some sense as a scum play-style, but I'm kind of iffy on it.

Volxen is still my preferred lynch today. I'm not too opposed to a sesq lynch but I have a lot more reservations about it compared to volxen. Toranga/Dunn are my weakest nulls right now, so I probably won't cry a river over their lynches either, but volxen makes the most sense to me right now tbh.

Yes, yes, scum partners bus, but at the time of reading these posts I did begin to see Reundo as a teammate who was sharing similar thoughts and suspicions as myself. He chose to oppose the Sesq wagon while it was selling like hot cakes (like myself) and hold the course with the more difficult Volxen wagon.

These three posts should at least give him safe passage into D3.


If Reundo is town, they possess impressive reading skills.
Here he agrees with Nauci that I'm in his "never lynch" pool, further citing three posts of mine that supports his view, which again demonstrates the sheer magnitude and strength of his town-read on me.
In post 1558, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 1552, Eragon wrote:Also, the fact that your talking about MY confidence is ???

Keyser went from hard-defending Dunn with nothing but WIFOM read, and then he suddenly switches to
“If Dunn flips town I’m replacing out”
That’s literally staking his part of the game on dunn’s Flip being red.

If that’s not confidence, then I don’t know what is
I’m not confident of Dunn flipping red. You have misunderstood my post.

I will lose interest in this game if he flips green.
So he's not confident that Dunn will flip red, yet he'll lose interest in the game if he flips green? Why would his interest in the game even wane on Dunnstral flipping green? Like, I guess it would be annoying if he flipped green since he did nothing to defend himself, but it's definitely not a game-ending lynch or anything. This just reads like a weird excuse to justify his complete 180 on Dunn.
In post 1601, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 1593, northsidegal wrote:
In post 1590, northsidegal wrote:what're the odds reundo is scum?
meh, not sure. he was right there on the volxen wagon, but townread dunnstral day 2 (albeit for reasons consistent with reasons for him townreading me). his reaction at the end of the day seems pretty strange to me coming from someone who had a townread on dunn, though.
In post 1591, Keyser Söze wrote:Wellplayed Ausuka x
Reundo town through and through for me.
Crystal clear scum read progression and methodology on Volxen.
Delightful brain waves regarding Dunnstral slot that I felt during the middle part of D2.
If scum, an exceptional scum player I will never want to play with again as his scum game is untraceable in my eyes and he mirrored many of my developing thoughts on players.
Town
This is probably the strongest town-read of me he's given yet, even to go as far as to say that my scum game is "untraceable" and that's he'd never want to play with me again if I were scum. It would be reasonable then to assume that his town-read of me would take a lot of work to break down, and that it'll take a lot of convincing for him to view me as scum. Except...
In post 1663, Keyser Söze wrote:I’d be very uncomfortable lynching Reundo today (he has more town cred than even me!) :giggle:
Why would he be uncomfortable lynching me
today
? I thought he just said literally a few pages ago that I'm town "through and through" -- why would he want to lynch me
ever
?
In post 1678, Keyser Söze wrote:I guess Reundo would only be lynched if he got to the last 3.



His intricate scum case on me was so well constructed, painting me as Volxen’s perfect partner...
But I don’t see two scum trying to set me up like that for a single misslynch.
It felt more like a townie starting with a scum read on me, then turning everything I wrote into something scummy, and every thing Volxen wrote as a link to me. I’m nobody though, just a man with a vote.
So now he does want me lynched despite advocating so hard that he could basically never see me as scum, which doesn't feel like a genuine transition in the slightest. Remind you, this is just pages after he claimed that he was so confident I was town that he'd never want to play with me against if I'm scum since my scum-game would be "untraceable".
In post 1834, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 1831, Toranaga wrote:VOTE: reundo

scummy af entrance
Yeah, Reundo had the worst entrance out of every player.

Reundo still demonstrating the inability to post in real time.



So is that his thing, post enough to pull of a clinical bus of his teammate and cash in towncred galore, day two doesn’t know what to do as he witnesses his scum mate being savaged, a wagon he was half hesitant with...?

After consulting my teammates, IT’S SIMPLY NOT GOOD ENOUGH :evil:

Image



You no longer deserve the cloak of invincibility I bestowed upon you!
This complete 180 on me doesn't make any sense at all, and I feel the only reason he's completely changing his read on me is that it's clear I'm a viable mislynch target and that scum-reading me is the new cool and popular opinion to have. This constant flip-flopping of me being town or scum makes absolutely no sense from town, and neither does his constant flip-flopping of his read on Dunnstral.
In post 1850, Keyser Söze wrote:Hmmm... the Reundo in this game has lost his voice.

There is no soul in his posts!



It’s like a demon has possessed the body of Reundo and is trying to mimic him! :o
In post 1856, Keyser Söze wrote:I CAST YOU OUT, UNCLEAN SPIRIT!



VOTE: Reundo
So now he's fully committed to lynching the player he once thought was the most towny in the game, and compared to the mountains of posts he made D2 where he was convinced I was never scum this vote just doesn't feel natural at all.
In post 1896, Keyser Söze wrote:Reundo’s 3-hit strike on Volxen is remarkable but what else in his ISO says town?
Keyser's literally made posts where he pulled up strings of posts that he believed were town-indicative. He's brought up numerous posts from mine that he suggested were towny. Acting like he never town-read me at all or town-read me outside of the "3-hit strike on Volxen" is disingenuous and completely untrue, and there'd be no reason for him to lie like this as town.
In post 2067, Keyser Söze wrote:Where my head is right now regarding Reundo.

The scum narrative:

- uncomfortable start pressing non alignment indicative factors as scummy (worst entrance by any player), realises he needs to save his slot
- busses teammate (Volxen) and continues miminal posting
- sets himself up perfectly: nobody can put together a strong case versus his small ISO, and will all bestow town cred on him for his acute push on flipped scum. He’s happy to be town read and be outside everyone's PoE
- half hesitant with Dunnstral wagon
- continues a suspicious periphery presence (choosing when to join the game when a misslynch is viable)
- I actually think he’s out of his element with the town players in this playerslist so has failed to engage one on one in real time. We could have had a perfect game lynching him yesterday.
- his reads reflect two misslynches lined up (his only strategy now)
- his timing to show up is always bad (scum indicative opportunistic/survivalist behaviour)
- there is a serious lack of WIM from his slot (the least WIM demonstrated by all the playerlist, despite apparently dunking on scum on D1)
- no pro-active sorting of the playerlist (where is the sincere town initiative, the paranoia, the genuine concern of someone challenging both his reads and others?
- the more he posts about myself/Toranaga the more likely he’ll be lynched tomorrow anyway (so he’s in a dilemma, thus, his pro-active contributions will be underwhelming yet again)
- meta: his posts lack the soul of the town meta I have read of his. This Reundo is not the real town Reundo, but a fake imitation.


Promised to ISO each player though first before I vote.
This scum narrative ignores the fact that he himself was half-hesistant on Dunnstral, and as a whole it just looks he's just drumming up reasons to scum-read me.
In post 2090, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 2076, Irrelephant11 wrote:So fmpov either scum is eragon or one scum bussed the volxen lynch
that challenges some assumptions
I've been along the 'scum bussed scum' narrative for a long time now. So I expect attention my way via VCA (I'm on both the Volxen and Dunstral lynch wagons).

Let's face it though, Volxen was no hard lynch. There wasn't an uphill struggle to make their wagon/lynch viable. If Volxen had been mass-town cred,
then cased
, then maybe you would give massive kudos to the people who pro-actively pushed his wagon, but no.

Dead weight scum is dead weight scum.
Wait... Keyser literally said at the start of D2 that I decided to "hold the course with the more difficult Volxen wagon". Why does he suddenly think the volxen lynch wasn't hard at all? It feels like he's just sticking to the explanation that best fits with his current read of me -- if he's town reading me, then the volxen wagon was impressive and there wouldn't be any reason for me to jump back on him, if he's scum reading me, then the volxen wagon is a piece of cake and it wouldn't be hard at all for scum to pull off a bus.
In post 2096, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 2061, Reundo wrote:And I only did it last gameday because it was largely during the weekend when I generally don't have much time to play mafia, and by the time I did have the time to write a catch-up the worst was already lynched.
Excuses excuses.

You do realise how long the game days are?

You watched us miss lynch The Worst.




In post 2050, Reundo wrote:VOTE: Keyser Söze

It's pretty much either him or Toranaga at this point, but Keyser is definitely the scummier one by a longshot. There's just zero world where any of Irrelephant/Nauci/Eragon flips scum.
Explain to me
how you are so sure
?

I've studied every post and tried to be as attentive as possible but even I would fully town clear 'Irrelephant/Nauci/Eragon' - where is the paranoia to rationalize and do the due diligence homework to support any of your reads?

It was me or the worst yesterday, and now me and Tora today? I knew you were lining up misslynches as soon as I realised you weren't reading the thread/analysing/revising your reads.

You don't even have the interactions to be so locked into confirmation bias either (like I was with Eragon)
So now I'm scum because I'm not paranoid enough for his liking? OK then. And it'll be reasonable for me to think it would be Keyser and Tora today if the former was a town-read, the latter was a null-read, and everyone was town. I can't possibly think one of my town-reads was scum. And him trying to brush off his scum-read of Eragon as being "locked into confirmation bias" rubs me the wrong way.

In conclusion, it's clear that Keyser is very likely to be the last scum. He defended himself a lot the whole game, and it was clear it was more suited to driving suspicion away from him then actually attempting to scum-hunt off of people scum-reading him. His only scum-reads D1 were either those who were directly scum-reading him or were heavily influenced by the opinions of others. He never gave a clear stance on volxen, and it was evident through his own scum-hunting criteria that he should've been a lot more suspicious of volxen. He constantly shifted his read on Dunnstral with very little indication between each transition. His flip-flopping on his read of me is even more suspicious, and there's many moments of him blatantly contradicting himself to try to push my lynch -- what he once thought was towny of me is now apparently scummy, what he once thought was a hard lynch (volxen's lynch) is now apparently not a hard lynch at all. His criteria for scum-reading people is not consistent at all and as a whole he seems content to just go with the flow and align his opinions with the majority of the player-base. There's hardly a shred of town in him when you really break down his play, and I'd be beyond surprised if Keyser flips town here.

So that's my Keyser ISO done. I think I'm going to work on ISO'ing Toranaga next since he's the next likely to be scum, but even his play is incredibly towny when compared with Keyser. I'm pretty confident that Keyser is just the answer here, but I'll probably ISO everyone else anyways just to double check, but if for whatever I reason I don't get to it then just know that Keyser needs to be lynched, period.


I apologize that it's taken me so long to finally read this

But it's like he took the words out of my mouth

Inb4 Keyser says but but but Eragon/Tor also did blah blah in a way that totally disregards context and nuance

Like there's a slim chance reundo is plying me with my own opinions but I don't think he could have articulated my views more in depth than I could if so. I've never had a mind meld that wasn't also town

And I haven't been able to follow any of keysers thought processes when I mind meld with him enough on our previous game that I could explain his point of view better than he could

Flip flopping doesn't just mean changing viewpoints, it means changing without genuine reasons

I've been kinda over this game since no one but Keyser interacted with my high effort case of him and that interaction was kinda angry defense. It's pretty de motivating that I kept asking but no one has really answered how Keyser has been very town thus far

P.S. reundo the spoiler tag wasn't working for you because MS doesn't allow nested spoilers and you quoted a Keyser post with a spoiler (that was fun to hunt down on mobile...).
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