Open 737: Stack the Deck (Game Over)

[Vex Vience]

VOTE: skygazer
first

[Vex Vience]

ok idk any of u but i did some theorizing pregame
mafia likely took two modifiers pregame, joat and daytalk meaning we have at most 4 townprs.

[Vex Vience]

i doubt that mafia took all 3 mods

[Vex Vience]

im vex if u havent already figured that out
and the feeling goes both ways, its also nice to meet u

[Vex Vience]

VOTE: ruru

@ofrhz

: regular vla on fridays and saturdays!!!

==

Lol at creature getting ic

==

ok idk any of u but i did some theorizing pregame
mafia likely took two modifiers pregame, joat and daytalk meaning we have at most 4 townprs.

No offense but imo theorizing like this is kinda pointless; its basically impossible to know what scum has picked at this stage of the game; i think its a bit premature to guess the number of prs we have or what scum picked

I do agree that they prob didnt take three modifiers

it gave me sth to do for a bit to kill time
from my math, joat counters three townprs so why wouldnt scum take joat? (bg, rber, tracker)
daytalk is also universally good hence why not take it?

[Vex Vience]

i also do agree it could be a bit pointless but its better than nothing

[Vex Vience]

As you walk towards the casino, you can’t help but feel a rush of adrenaline course through your body from anticipation. Feeling energized, you strut into the building with thoughts of glory and prize money on your mind.

A tall, stern-looking man greets you as you walk in, but instead of leading you to a table, he quickly ushers you away from the floor and into a small, nondescript side room. You recognize some of your other competitors, sitting in silence and looking determined to avoid making eye contact with one another.

The same man walks to the front of the room and says, “I appreciate your patience. You must be wondering why we have brought you here today.

We have video footage of three masked figures breaking into the casino stockroom yesterday evening. Due to the high stakes nature of this event, we have suspended the competition until the perpetrators can be identified. As competitors with motive, you are now our primary suspects in this investigation.”

A few unintelligible murmurs resonate throughout the room, but the man clears his throat and continues, “Luckily, we can narrow down the pool of suspects a bit further. I have already questioned Creature, and he was able to provide a solid alibi for his whereabouts last night.”

---

Creature has been revealed as the Innocent Child.

THIS IS STUPID

im assuming that creature just gets obvtowned early on?

VOTE: Creature

I've seen an accidental lolhammer on an IC that has yet to be revealed, can we make history and accidentally lynch an outed IC?

lol

[Vex Vience]

also sky, what game was that in?
kinda wanna read it now

[Vex Vience]

Epic fail!
And on my FIRST POST!

VOTE: Skygazer

this is obvscum plz lynch this
only scum fail on their first post

[Vex Vience]

it gave me sth to do for a bit to kill time
from my math, joat counters three townprs so why wouldnt scum take joat? (bg, rber, tracker)
daytalk is also universally good hence why not take it?

aside, are you an alt? (feel free to ignore this if you like!)

scum don't know what powers town are going to get and joat is useless against many of them; 1s ninja is useless if tracker isn't in the game, even then it's only worth one shot. 1s strongman is good against bg; i don't know how strongman and rb interact but again it's only one shot while town is given full tracker/bg/rb

(well i suppose to be fair it's good against goon cop)

on balnace i don't think it's worth it for scum to take prs when they don't know which prs town will get or how those prs stack up against scum's prs

like i think any 4 of {tracker/bg/ic/rb/vig/goon cop} is kinda weak against scum joat from a scum perspective, as is 5 of the town prs against joat + daytalk

the only scum modification that i think is kinda worth giving town more prs as scum is daytalk and that's like the only one i'd take i think as scum

==

THIS IS STUPID

kinda townie reaction imo

@vex: town!creature is very, very, very easy to identify most of the time

==

VOTE: Creature

I've seen an accidental lolhammer on an IC that has yet to be revealed, can we make history and accidentally lynch an outed IC?

i know that you probably meant this in jest and that it's rvs but i think this is slightly more likely to come from scum tbh

to answer ur points:
if i do say im an alt, what does that mean for u?
out of 6 prs, joat counters 3 of them: tracker because ninja, bg and rber because strongman, (strongman ignores bg and rber)
also i do agree that daytalk is something scum will 100% take however i feel that joat may be a very close second pick
i dont think scum would wanna take bp or recruit traitor because with 3 modifiers, the odds of vig appearing is 47%, basically a coinflip, and regardless its a useless modifier
vig just outs themselves once they hit a bp and then the bp mafia goon flips
sure if theres an rber that could fuck things up a bit but thats so unlikely that its negliable

[Vex Vience]

also about town!creature that was my thought based on gamma's reaction

[Vex Vience]

also to expand on why i dont think maf would recruit traitor:
it puts them down a mod first off, plus if theres no vig (and they took two mods), they can instantly tell if they hit the traitor barring any rber fucking with their results
traitor is 1s bp, and if the person they hit didnt die and they know they werent rb'd, they know instantly who the traitor is
i could see scum taking it as a third mod if they really really wanted it, but other than that, i highly doubt they wouldve recruited traitor

[Vex Vience]

i think scum were very likely to take:
daytalk, joat and rolecop if they took three
i don't think they did, and im 100% sure they did take daytalk meaning for me its between {joat/rc} for scum second mod

[Vex Vience]

yes thats a given fact that no two times will scum pick exactly the same thing but its a good starting point to try to figure out what we could be dealing with
ill take a look at the picks in a min

[Vex Vience]

if i do say im an alt, what does that mean for u?

whether or not i ought to view you as a new player or not

yes, i am an alt
not telling u who my main is tho

==

out of 6 prs, joat counters 3 of them: tracker because ninja, bg and rber because strongman, (strongman ignores bg and rber)

ye but joat is only two shot and tracker/bg/rb can still affect that scum member after those shots are up, or if they didn't use the shots on the correct night

on balance i don't think it's worth it to give town more prs

touche

also i do agree that daytalk is something scum will 100% take however i feel that joat may be a very close second pick

scum didn't take daytalk in the last two iterations of this setup (i don't know what happened before that)

daytalk hasnt been taken at all by my count

==

i know that you probably meant this in jest and that it's rvs but i think this is slightly more likely to come from scum tbh

yet you don't opt to end rvs by voting me?

i mean, i think we're out of rvs at this point

why should i have voted you there?

replies are in bold

I've learnt my lesson about setup spec D1 in such set ups ...
Tbh you can look at past games run with this set up and you'll see that the picks wildly differ

between all 15 games:
bp: 0 times
rc: 8 times
joat: 6 times
daytalk: 0 times
recruit traitor: 5 times
games with no mods picked: 2 or 3, didn't keep count of those

[Vex Vience]

its also really helpful when mods post the endgame link in the op

[Vex Vience]

looking at joat again:
if im rber/tracker and whoever i rb/track doesnt appear im not gonna try rbing/tracking them a second night
id just assume theyre vt not joat because rbing/tracking them a second night would be a waste right?
if i suspect them as scum whats stopping the other scumbuddy from preforming the kill, the one

not

being targeted?

[Vex Vience]

Actually thanks vex that’s quite useful. I was too lazy to look myself, partly because of what you mentioned about mods not flipping on post 0.

What’s interesting is that it’s 15 games, so from glance of numbers the average no of mods per game is quite low.

roughly about 1.2 mods/game
which is quite interesting in general
if im scum id wanna take around two mods not one

[Vex Vience]

Early *serious* read alert: Vex is likely town. I did the exact same thing (speculating about what scum might have picked) when I played this setup for the first time. It's not a *strong* TR bc there is a scum motive to do it (and I'd really rather not speaking of that right now) but I'd like to think of him as a townie for a starting point.

yeah i agree overall

Even considering that he’s an alt?

y would me being an alt change people tring me?

[Vex Vience]

It’s likely that you might have experience with such setups. I’m pretty meh towards early reads anyways

experience with semi-open setups like this one or c9++ or similar?

Early *serious* read alert: Vex is likely town. I did the exact same thing (speculating about what scum might have picked) when I played this setup for the first time. It's not a *strong* TR bc there is a scum motive to do it (and I'd really rather not speaking of that right now) but I'd like to think of him as a townie for a starting point.

Agree with this. But I do think setup spec isn't too relevant at this point, it's wildly guessing and even if we were to agree on the number of PRs we wouldn't do anything with it for a while.


@Vex Because if you would be a new player we could read bad reasoning as newbie reasoning

bad reasoning from me is just bad reasoning or me underthinking something
not because im new

[Vex Vience]

also question
how would my experience (or lack there of) change anything about tring me?

[Vex Vience]

also question
how would my experience (or lack there of) change anything about tring me?

with this type of setup*

[Vex Vience]

= I'd feel like I'd be more forgiving to newbies who don't really put forward reads or play unconventionally, while I'd expect less so from experienced players, but that's me

thats fair
im somewhat experienced at any rate

[Vex Vience]

ive played enough to know what im doing at the very least

[Vex Vience]

Also how about we stop talking about how many prs we think scum can claim

y? do u have anything ud rather discuss?

[Vex Vience]

Also how about we stop talking about how many prs we think scum can claim

why not? they already know how many prs town has; this convo doesn't change that

i think overall there's *better* things to talk about than setup spec, but i don't think it's detrimental to anything at this stage either, and i think the setup spec is helping bring the game out of rvs anyways

what better things do u have to discuss?
im open to hearing them
im just discussing setup spec bc i got nothing better to discuss

I think it's like actively antitown because it informs scum's decision of what to claim

explain, scum already know what they took and how many prs there could be.

Also, what do you think about my case on Sky? I think it's very convincing and I would appreciate your vote there. Thank you.

what case?

[Vex Vience]

also enigma are u just generally against alts?
im getting that feeling from u

[Vex Vience]

also enigma are u just generally against alts?
im getting that feeling from u

Nah doesn't bother me so much, meta only takes you so far when scumhunting

dont like meta arguements
thats why i made an alt

I think it's like actively antitown because it informs scum's decision of what to claim

Whilst I don't think its super productive, agree with Vex its fine to boot us out of RVS. I wouldn't say its helping scum unless people are literally softclaiming their TPRs, in which case helping scum CC is the least of our worries...

i agree on this
its not helping scum bc no one is softclaiming their prs
im still also waiting on what else we could be discussing

Whoever casts the third vote on Sky gets a free pass from me for the rest of the day!

where r u going with this?

Suppose you're a scum at L1 and you have to decide what to claim, you have information that town will probably believe n+1 PRs existing, so you claim PR

yes but what else is there to discuss rn is my point
ids the spec on what scum took hurting us
it got us out of rvs (which was sorta my purpose) and got discussion going
whats wrong with trying to get early discussion going?

@vex:

the qualifier was 'at this stage of the game' - it's helping us transition out of rvs so i'm fine with it for now; i wouldn't want to revert back to this discussion in several irl days after we've had legit wagons or something

for now it's fine since it's helping us get to the interesting things

duh im not planning on saying in like 3 irl days from now "what mods do u guys think scum took?"
rather get it done now bc that was the spec i did while waiting for scum to pick mods and to get my final rc

[Vex Vience]

Suppose you're a scum at L1 and you have to decide what to claim, you have information that town will probably believe n+1 PRs existing, so you claim PR

Why wouldn't scum just fake claim regardless of our discussion, claiming VT doesn't really help them out at L-1 anyways so at least could just take their chances with a CC bait or potentially get away with it?

i do agree with this:
theres three ways this could go for scum if they claim pr:
1) they get hung with no cc, we get it confirmed that whatever they claimed isnt in the game
2) no one ccs, they get off free
3) someone ccs, they get hung, cc'er gets nk'd

better question here is why wouldnt scum claim pr on stand?

creature's lurking through this, meta says he's obvscum, come on guys lets wagon this

ladies first

[Vex Vience]

Hey guys I'm traitor no shoot pls

VOTE: Almost50

I would be so upset if later this we find out that you weren't joking with this lol

idt scum would be

that

stupid to openly claim traitor

[Vex Vience]

If scum really claimed pr every time then town could just confirm themselves by claiming vt

hm interesting idea
but what makes you think that all 3 scum would claim pr on stand when at least one would get instantly cc'd?
ig as well that my question assumes all scum claim pr too

[Vex Vience]

Guys you know how hypo innos are a thing?

Why don't we do hypo scum teams? If I'm the traitor then my partners are ruru and A50 pls dont crosskill me guys

wdym?

If scum really claimed pr every time then town could just confirm themselves by claiming vt

Hypothetically yes, but unfortunately town has a tendency to lynch VTs claims and let TPRs get off...
Another thing is that there is very little defence once a TPR is outed in this set up. No docs, watchers, JKs, etc. Bodyguard is less than ideal - i.e. very little to discourage scum NKing TPRs if they CC.

yea that was something i was thinking about when specing
once a tpr gets outed, theyre dead which would discourage scum from claiming pr right?
if im scum and a tpr outs themselves im killing them 100% of the time which means that if someone outs themselves as a tpr why wouldnt scum kill them unless they were scum all along?
which ik that brings up the entire "what if they decide not to kill them to try to frame them as scum" argument but for simplicity rn, lets ignore it
we can always discuss it later

@a50 why wagon sky?

Because it's fun.
And also bc it's good for the game.
Well, it's as good as any other wagon really, but my vote is already there and so is ruru's, so if you want to be our third I'd be obliged. (It's still be L-4 you know, and N_M isn't even in this game if it makes you feel any better)

how is wagoning sky good for the game?

[Vex Vience]

currently am hesitant on liking a50

[Vex Vience]

pageget

[Vex Vience]

im assuming that creature just gets obvtowned early on?

yeah if creature doesn't fall into lurkerdom, he's town so kind of a waste of IC but thems the breaks

i like ruru's entrance

a50's not so much

VOTE: a50

y do u like ruru?

[Vex Vience]

i like ruru's entrance

Explain?

also ....
pedit: sigh

(☞ ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)☞

Sky's entrance to the game is alarming. Everything she said so far "could" be interpreted as a mere joke. However -in my experience- joking about lynching the IC always comes from scum. And her last post/joke is even more alarming. I feel like it's been made for the sole purpose of declaring herself as the true traitor. It's as if she took ruru's earlier post about the traitor as an inquiry and is responding to it in fashion.

So,

my case on Sky is she is the Traitor

how confident are you in sky being the traitor?

pageget

VOTE: Vex

o i c this escalated very quickly

[Vex Vience]

also a50 do u have games where someone joking about lynching ic was scum?
just curious
also wanna hear from sky a bit more

pedit:

how confident are you in sky being the traitor?

About the same level of confidence you are Town in this game.

and how confident are you in that?

[Vex Vience]

trying to figure out how confident u are in sky being scum
i do see the case u have as well

[Vex Vience]

Vex feels townish so far even though it looks like some sort of newbtown enthusiasm. Eh. He's contributing much which is enough for the day.

i dont know if it matters or if it's relevant or anything but i'm not gettng a newb vibe from him

please see these quotes:

= I'd feel like I'd be more forgiving to newbies who don't really put forward reads or play unconventionally, while I'd expect less so from experienced players, but that's me

thats fair
im somewhat experienced at any rate

ive played enough to know what im doing at the very least

===

don't particularly like ruru thus far; everything she's saying is kinda inane and about the pr stuff but isn't actually cotributing anything useful or game-moving imo and that's not really what i expect from town!ruru

what do u expect from town!ruru?

another thing that's bothering me about this is that i don't know if scum is so ... conspicuous about voting the ic and naming themselves traitor?

idt scum would be this blatant as well, however, i havent played with sky under my main so idk
scum!sky could be this blatant, but by the same token why would scum be that blatant?

What's your problem with getting a wagon going anyway and see what happens? Wagons are generally good early on D1. They get people to react faster, they provide reads, and they are a good reference later on. Even you don't buy the case.. even if there is no case to begin with.. just wagon someone to L-2 and see what happens. Hell, if it needs be.. we can run TWO competing wagons at the same time and see who votes which and why.

i dont have one actually. i was just curious about what u were thinking, thats all

@sky, what do u have to say about what a50 said?

VOTE: skygazer

[Vex Vience]

However -in my experience- joking about lynching the IC always comes from scum.

do u have something u wanna say or no?

[Vex Vience]

Ok, first one that I tripped on (not the one I was looking for, but it'll do). We (myself and Chara as a hydra) were revealed as the IC, and we received 2 votes on page one. NSG wasn't Scum (actually she was the Cop, and sometimes.. just sometimes.. TPRs do some scummy stuff). Elmo was the other vote and she was indeed scum.

But that's NOT my only point. I have 2 other points against Sky now: Her meta and her Traitor claim. I;ve already explained the later. As for her meta, I think skitter (for one) would agree this isn't the way way Sky enters her games as a Townie. She tends to be pushing the game forward from the word go. It'd make my like much easier if you just went to her profile and clicked her topics and took a look on how Town Sky usually enters the game. This is some weird entrance by her to say the least. She's likely the Traitor and she simply didn't know how to play it.

will do
give me a bit

[Vex Vience]

Okay fine I'll make an effortpost

i expect town!ruru to be more opionated/stubborn almost? like if she thinks you're wrong about the pr stuff i kinda expect a long novel about why exactly you're wrong. like she wasn't as forceful about it as i'd expect her to be if that makes sense

About this, I don't actually care about arguing with people whom I think are super wrong about mechanical stuff unless it's going to change the outcome of the game

In this case a lot of the setup spec that was bothering me was already done and people aren't really doing it anymore

i said a couple of times that i wanted to pressure her and i kinda expect town!her to engage with that in some way, or to like respond to me? she knows i can locktown her pretty easily as town so avoiding that feels kinda wrong?

It's like pretty hard for me to take your vote on me seriously when you already called it a "pressure vote" and like I pretty much expect you to read me correctly before eod anyway regardless of your alignment? And I'd rather just be shitposting lol

idl this post in general
the whole "ok fine ill make an effort post" thing seems odd to me
y would u just now be like "ok ill take the game seriously" when we already have been for a few pages?

[Vex Vience]

Ok done.
It's late but here's some super raw thoughts-

I don't see what Sky said as a scum move. Well, I actually don't know what to think of it. Not exactly towny either.

I'll call it null for now.

y do u see it as null?

lied about catching up im just gonna watch avatar tonight instead

how about u tell us what u saw while watching avatar?

[Vex Vience]

also sky, y change your profile to include "im town" in it?
just now noticed that

[Vex Vience]

I don't townread her. I was meaning to say that the reasoning was sound

whats ur stance on sky then?

[Vex Vience]

Sky's entrance to the game is alarming. Everything she said so far "could" be interpreted as a mere joke. However -in my experience- joking about lynching the IC always comes from scum. And her last post/joke is even more alarming. I feel like it's been made for the sole purpose of declaring herself as the true traitor. It's as if she took ruru's earlier post about the traitor as an inquiry and is responding to it in fashion.

So,

my case on Sky is she is the Traitor

Sir, don't do this to me. I will not hesitate to tell the class why I think this is wrong, especially from you.

idt i see it
care to explain?

[Vex Vience]

gamma's entrance has a stick-up-the-ass feel

i don't like it

gammas null for me rn.
y dont u like his entrance?

[Vex Vience]

its w/e should be passing remarks
id like to hear from some others on sky v a50 tbh namely why gamma thinks a50 is wrong

[Vex Vience]

i have some preliminary reads going on but id like to get more posts from everyone else before i post it
half of u are null because u havent posted a lot
also gamma can u explain without outing an alt?

[Vex Vience]

@mod how long until creature gets replaced?

rather not have an inactive ic slot

[Vex Vience]

Don't worry, I won't be an inactive IC.

glad to see u could finally join us

ok idk any of u but i did some theorizing pregame
mafia likely took two modifiers pregame, joat and daytalk meaning we have at most 4 townprs.

Huh? Four town PRs might be troubling for them.

yea, i could see 4 tprs being troubling for them but y would they take two mods if they couldn't handle 4 tprs?

i think scum were very likely to take:daytalk, joat and rolecop if they took three

I'd just do recruit mafia traitor, at most do daytalk too.

id personally not have recruited traitor.
its about a 50% chance of town getting vig with daytalk + recruited traitor, about 60% without daytalk but recruiting traitor
odds of vigi appearing arent high enough to really justify recruiting traitor and sacing their bp
if the kill doesnt go through maf knows who traitor is

Page 3

ruru town
skitter and Vex too

Tempted to townread Enigma too

currently am tring enigma and skitter
what about ruru is telling u she's town?

this might be a weird thing to say but i kinda think that shitposting is kinda more likely to come from scum!you? you're pretty competitive as either alignment and i feel like town!you would have gotten into the game already and not have to be like drawn out of rvs and that you'd have more of a presence but i can kinda see scum!you affecting a shitposting/meme-y style so that if people question you why you're acting different you can say that you're just shitposting

You should probably read more of my early d1 meta if this is a serious concern

eli5 why this is correct play? (ie specifically why you get lynched before me and why everyone ought to lynch you because i'm scumreading you)

Historically you read me accurately on d1, so it would be similar to a guilty

like someone saying their own posts are scumpinging them is kinda strange?

Sometimes I write a post and realize that it contains scumtells or that I would to some extent scumread it, and then I either delete it or post it anyway

(also I'm more likely to delete as scum)

y do u make this seem like only u do it?
scum would try to minimize the odds of whatever they post containing a slip by re-reading it and thinking about it no?

[Vex Vience]

Me being IC or the font?

Looks like my browsers weren’t rendering the font properly so it looked okay to me. Let me know if it is still hard to read, since I can’t tell the difference.

font looks alright, just small

[Vex Vience]

y do u make this seem like only u do it?

y do u make this seem like i make this seem like only i do it?

trying to make posts you havent made seem more townie is a given thing scum will do
y bring that up?

[Vex Vience]

UNVOTE: sky

@mod v/la for 48 hours

apparently i have like 2 essays due in like 3 days
will try to post when i have a minute
quick thought as well: was thinking that sky couldve been using the changing avatar to have "im town" as a method of confirming herself as town but i found that too angleshooty to be true
good play regardless sky

Thanks for the heads up -ofrhz

[Vex Vience]

Can you explain your Jager vote then?

I'm not townreading him

i mean y else would u be voting him past rvs unless u were scumreading him / not townreading him?

[Vex Vience]

pageget

[Vex Vience]

Kinda feel the same about Vex who has done a looooot of setupspec and asking questions which... doesn't quite put him in my townpile... (and using u and y over you and why is only strengthening that! )

i would tell u to go look at my mains games but thatd defeat the entire point of using an alt w/ a different typing style
tl;dr is that i ask a lot of questions as town
also, im using u and y over you and why to try to distance myself from my main. do u have a problem with that?

A50, you townreading ruru then?

I am. I mean, I have no reads "carved in stone" yet, but I am indeed TRing everyone aside from Antihero/ManWithNoName/FrankJaeger/Gamma Emerald.

is everyone really that townie or am i just bad at the game?

havent really seen anything else that calls my attention and my reads list from earlier is mostly the same still
i think skitter + enigma are town, a50 + sky could be town, but im not really sure. kinda inclinded to believe that sky is town bc of the changing avatar thing
everyone else is kinda hanging out around null

@hws still waiting on ur stance on sky

[Vex Vience]

a lot of the things im getting from reading back are just fluff or something i dont really see anything from
once we start getting reads posted and shit ill be able to actually start reading ppl better

[Vex Vience]

also thinking about it some more, @hws why is asking a lot of questions not townie to u?
the entire point is to get someone to clarify their stance no?
if ur forced to clarify what u mean itd help everyone no?

[Vex Vience]

starting to like ruru a bit
dont get the scumread on mwnn. how can u scumread someone whos been on vla the entire game?

[Vex Vience]

how confident are you in sky being the traitor?

About the same level of confidence you are Town in this game.

looking at this quote again it pings me as somewhat odd
a50 was really certain that sky was the traitor at that point (or at least to me it seemed like) while he earlier said that he was tring me, it wasn't a strong one, but he was tring me
i could just be really overthinking this and be totally wrong tho

OK, so substitute Sky with MWNN in my initial Scum team formation and that's game over. Scums are Antihero, ManWithNoName & FrankJaeger. I'm a GENIUS!!

y r u scumreading anti?
hes null/slight tr for me

Early *serious* read alert: Vex is likely town. I did the exact same thing (speculating about what scum might have picked) when I played this setup for the first time. It's not a *strong* TR bc there is a scum motive to do it (and I'd really rather not speaking of that right now) but I'd like to think of him as a townie for a starting point.

starting to like ruru a bit
dont get the scumread on mwnn. how can u scumread someone whos been on vla the entire game?

with this being said as well, im starting to like anti, unsure on a50, im starting to dislike frank

If I go crazy:

01. Almost50

02. HeWhoSwims

03. Skygazer
04. ruru

05. Antihero
06. ManWithNoName

07. Enigma
08. FrankJaeger
09. Creature

10. Gamma Emerald

11. skitter30
12. Vex Vience

y do u think frank isnt scum creature?
ill also post a wall of reads either later tonight or tomorrow

[Vex Vience]

y r u scumreading anti?
hes null/slight tr for me

I mean, PoE alone leaves me with only 4 suspects, so he's like 75% scum yo me.

explain how u got there plz

also thinking about it some more, @hws why is asking a lot of questions not townie to u?
the entire point is to get someone to clarify their stance no?
if ur forced to clarify what u mean itd help everyone no?

Not sure if I said this? At least wasn't trying to. Asking questions isn't bad but it can very well get you a scumread from me if it's the vast majority of your iso... I want people's own reads as well!

i mean... thats the basis of all my reads is what u reply to me with...
i even said id be posting a wall of reads later tonight or tomorrow

[Vex Vience]

yes but asking questions helps me get a better idea as to motive
someone whos town is gonna reply to questions than someone whos scum
its just a matter of figuring out which answer is the town answer and which one is the scum answer

[Vex Vience]

Might just be a playstyle difference then but in general that pings my scumdar

Although skitter is saying that I might be making a mistake for thinking similarly of Gemerald

it is a playstyle difference
i find questioning (to an extend) townie before it becomes just pure "all i do is ask questions and nothing else"

explain how u got there plz

What's to explain, my friend? I said I TR everyone with the exception of Antihero/ManWithNoName/FrankJaeger/Gamma Emerald. Given we have 3 scums over all it follows each of my suspects is 75% likely to flip scum. 3 out of these 4 are the scum team IMHO.

explain ur reasoning on

how

u got there
meaning what is causing u to tr everyone but those 4, and whats causing u to not tr those 4

[Vex Vience]

Now what exactly is townie in any of Anti/Frank/MWNN's ISOs? T

he latter is a strong scum lean for the very fact you would null read him: NO CONTENT

. I know he can do MUCH better than this if he wanted to.

so ur scumreading someone on vla?

[Vex Vience]

im not sure on a50
im currently scumleaning him
i find the scumreading the vla player the scummiest out of all of them tho
also @a50, only use latter for two people

[Vex Vience]

also @a50, only use latter for two people

I think my brain is turned off. Would you kindly rephrase that?

ok u only use "latter" when ur referring to two things, u dont use it when referring to three or more things
using latter when it comes to three or more things just makes it more confusing

[Vex Vience]

also do u have proof that mwnn does post something even when on vla?
also

@mod sky needs a prod

Done, thanks for the reminder

[Vex Vience]

ok, here's my wall of reads

Spoiler: almost

Also, what do you think about my case on Sky? I think it's very convincing and I would appreciate your vote there. Thank you.

Whoever casts the third vote on Sky gets a free pass from me for the rest of the day!

@a50 why wagon sky?

Because it's fun.
And also bc it's good for the game.
Well, it's as good as any other wagon really, but my vote is already there and so is ruru's, so if you want to be our third I'd be obliged. (It's still be L-4 you know, and N_M isn't even in this game if it makes you feel any better)

not really sure how i feel about a50 trying to get a wagon on sky early on and saying that he had a case on sky when really it was just the rvs reasoning.
im also unsure of how to feel about how gung-ho he was to try to get people to vote sky that early on
granted, sure, we couldve been out of rvs by then but i still feel like it was a bit too early to really try to start any wagons much less a pseudo-rvs one
i find it slightly scummy over all but its nothing really that major since it could just be explained by it being a rvs wagon

Sky's entrance to the game is alarming. Everything she said so far "could" be interpreted as a mere joke. However -in my experience- joking about lynching the IC always comes from scum. And her last post/joke is even more alarming. I feel like it's been made for the sole purpose of declaring herself as the true traitor. It's as if she took ruru's earlier post about the traitor as an inquiry and is responding to it in fashion.

So,

my case on Sky is she is the Traitor

i feel like this case could be true but at the same time, sky said that she was shitposting.
i find this quote null overall, but its still something worth bringing back up imo

Welcome to A50 theories ... true madness, this is why I take them with a grain of salt ahaha

A50, re Sky's avatar do you think she changed it just because of this specific game and the wagon on her (considering she is playing in several other games rn)?

Well, I haven't checked her other ongoing games and I dunno if she said she'd be watching avatar in them, so I can't return a reliable answer. However, I do think that post had something to do with that avatar edit in this game, and thus more inclined to buy it. After all, if I lose to her because of THAT move I'd still be laughing hard at how cute of a move it was.

do u have an answer on if sky posted she was watching avatar in any other games?

If I go crazy:

01. Almost50

02. HeWhoSwims

03. Skygazer
04. ruru

05. Antihero
06. ManWithNoName

07. Enigma
08. FrankJaeger
09. Creature

10. Gamma Emerald

11. skitter30
12. Vex Vience

OK, we agree on 2/3 and you're conf!Town so your reads are a good reference to me.

VOTE: Antihero

waiting on an explanation of your reads and how you got there still

do you townread hewhoswims? if so, why?

There's nothing manipulative in his posts so far. His progression feels natural and coincides with what I'd expect from him at this point. Even his reads are more or less close to mine. Why is he a suspect to you?

im not sure what i make of of a50's reads being close to two peoples, one of which is the ic.
i just find it a bit odd that he has narrowed it down this quickly
either that or im really bad at reading people lol

y r u scumreading anti?
hes null/slight tr for me

I mean, PoE alone leaves me with only 4 suspects, so he's like 75% scum yo me.

again, waiting on explanation on how he got here

@Vex: There comes the part where I really hate it. You want me to rewrite my whole ISO? I know I -at least- explained the TRs on HWS, Sky, ruru & you. I hinted on the skitter read, but to reiterate I know her well enough to notice if she's being manipulative or withdrawn and she's not. Enigma is also posting in a townie manner .. like how am I supposed to explain what "posting in a townie matter" means?

Gamma hasn't given me that Town vibe just yet, but he hasn't obv!Scummed either, so he's more of "backup" candidate for scum, but I treated him as an equal to the other 3 to be fair to them.

Now what exactly is townie in any of Anti/Frank/MWNN's ISOs? The latter is a strong scum lean for the very fact you would null read him: NO CONTENT. I know he can do MUCH better than this if he wanted to.

i dont like the scumreading a vla slot

It's hard to explain, but he usually does "something" even when he has no time to play. He just won't "abandon" the game totally.

once again, asking for proof

overall, im pretty torn between a50 being scum and being a nullread, im not really sure what to make of him tbh
im gonna say that he's at a

strong scum

point for now until i get how exactly he got down to 4 people + proof mwnn does this + just an actual explanation

Spoiler: hws

theres not a lot i can make from him rn. so far his iso seems pretty good, but theres barely anything for me to really get any strong feelings on

null

for now

Spoiler: sky

creature's lurking through this, meta says he's obvscum, come on guys lets wagon this

meme

Guys you know how hypo innos are a thing?

Why don't we do hypo scum teams? If I'm the traitor then my partners are ruru and A50 pls dont crosskill me guys

i don't really like this post
it feels out of place outside of rvs imo

still at work so i cant make an effort post but if you want even more of a mindfuck one of the layers of my avatar is from the show avatar

still waiting on this

sky was originally a scumlean for me, but following the "im town" avatar thing im not really sure what to make of her
her early shitposting hasn't really helped out a whole lot for making my read so

null

Spoiler: ruru

Hey guys I'm traitor no shoot pls

VOTE: Almost50

ill let this slide as meme

Also how about we stop talking about how many prs we think scum can claim

like i said earlier, we had nothing better to discuss and i was open to hearing anything else u wanted to discuss

I think it's like actively antitown because it informs scum's decision of what to claim

not really? unless im just dumb and missing something, it really doesnt

Okay fine I'll make an effortpost

i expect town!ruru to be more opionated/stubborn almost? like if she thinks you're wrong about the pr stuff i kinda expect a long novel about why exactly you're wrong. like she wasn't as forceful about it as i'd expect her to be if that makes sense

About this, I don't actually care about arguing with people whom I think are super wrong about mechanical stuff unless it's going to change the outcome of the game

In this case a lot of the setup spec that was bothering me was already done and people aren't really doing it anymore

i said a couple of times that i wanted to pressure her and i kinda expect town!her to engage with that in some way, or to like respond to me? she knows i can locktown her pretty easily as town so avoiding that feels kinda wrong?

It's like pretty hard for me to take your vote on me seriously when you already called it a "pressure vote" and like I pretty much expect you to read me correctly before eod anyway regardless of your alignment? And I'd rather just be shitposting lol

i still dont like this post
it just seems odd to me to now be like "oh im being called out let me put forth some actual effort meanwhile id really rather be shitposting"

there was nothing really that noteworthy from later posts that i saw
i think ruru is probably town, im getting a vague townish feeling from her posts
she can have a

townlean

spot for now ig

Spoiler: anti

the only things ive really gotten from anti is stuff against gamma and against a50 + him saying that he likes rurus entrance.

null

overall

Spoiler: mwnn

literally two posts, one rvs and one declaring v/la
cant read that,

null

Spoiler: enigma

Early *serious* read alert: Vex is likely town. I did the exact same thing (speculating about what scum might have picked) when I played this setup for the first time. It's not a *strong* TR bc there is a scum motive to do it (and I'd really rather not speaking of that right now) but I'd like to think of him as a townie for a starting point.

yeah i agree overall

Even considering that he’s an alt?

while i dont really like this post (only bc its implying me being an alt

would

change peoples trs, i dont see really anything wrong with it
post just seems odd to me overall

^ that's still true

Suppose you're a scum at L1 and you have to decide what to claim, you have information that town will probably believe n+1 PRs existing, so you claim PR

Why wouldn't scum just fake claim regardless of our discussion, claiming VT doesn't really help them out at L-1 anyways so at least could just take their chances with a CC bait or potentially get away with it?

If scum really claimed pr every time then town could just confirm themselves by claiming vt

Hypothetically yes, but unfortunately town has a tendency to lynch VTs claims and let TPRs get off...
Another thing is that there is very little defence once a TPR is outed in this set up. No docs, watchers, JKs, etc. Bodyguard is less than ideal - i.e. very little to discourage scum NKing TPRs if they CC.

i like these posts. they seem to have a town-motive behind them for me.

none of their recent posts as well really stand out to me.

overall, i think that enigma is town. they're a

town lean

, bordering on a strong-tr to me at the very least

Spoiler: frank

i dont really like frank so far
the general lack of content from his slot just is odd
he had wednesday (afawk) to post yet didn't
waiting on his post from afterwork at this point tbh

i feel comfortable putting him at a

scumlean

for now until he posts what he has to say

Spoiler: creature

this is the ic
however that doesnt mean i dont have things i want creature to explain

Frank feels town

y

If I go crazy:

01. Almost50

02. HeWhoSwims

03. Skygazer
04. ruru

05. Antihero
06. ManWithNoName

07. Enigma
08. FrankJaeger
09. Creature

10. Gamma Emerald

11. skitter30
12. Vex Vience

please explain how u got here

apart from that, creature is obviously

scum

, i mean...

modconf town

Spoiler: gamma

Sky's entrance to the game is alarming. Everything she said so far "could" be interpreted as a mere joke. However -in my experience- joking about lynching the IC always comes from scum. And her last post/joke is even more alarming. I feel like it's been made for the sole purpose of declaring herself as the true traitor. It's as if she took ruru's earlier post about the traitor as an inquiry and is responding to it in fashion.

So,

my case on Sky is she is the Traitor

Sir, don't do this to me. I will not hesitate to tell the class why I think this is wrong, especially from you.

Sky's entrance to the game is alarming. Everything she said so far "could" be interpreted as a mere joke. However -in my experience- joking about lynching the IC always comes from scum. And her last post/joke is even more alarming. I feel like it's been made for the sole purpose of declaring herself as the true traitor. It's as if she took ruru's earlier post about the traitor as an inquiry and is responding to it in fashion.

So,

my case on Sky is she is the Traitor

Sir, don't do this to me. I will not hesitate to tell the class why I think this is wrong, especially from you.

idt i see it
care to explain?

It's a meta read, but I prefer not to give it unless necessary because it involves outing an alt

i dont like these posts
"ill explain y its wrong"
"haha jk i dont wanna out an alt"
please explain the reasoning and for future reference, if it involving outting an alt, dont say u have reasoning unless the alts been outed already

i also dont really like gamma all that much
theres not a lot to read and most of his posts so far feel rather empty to me if u get what i mean
i have a

scumlean

on him regardless

Spoiler: skitter

overall, i really like skitter
theres no posts from her that are like "this person is 100% town" but overall i like her tone. i like how shes playing so far and seems to be pro-town (to me at least)
all of her posts are really good so far are suggesting she's town
skitter is a pretty solid

townread

for now

Spoiler: vex

this is myself
ik im

town

Spoiler: tl;dr

{creature, myself}

{skitter}

{ruru, enigma}

{mwnn, hws, sky, anti}

- null

{frank, gamma}

{almost}

{none}

color code:

confirmed/lock town

,

strong town

,

weak town

,

null

,

weak scum

,

strong scum

,

confirmed/lock scum

weak - still unsure about alignment
strong - very certain about what they are

[Vex Vience]

also on mafsepia my color code looks much better

[Vex Vience]

also also my reads list was originally made a day or so ago, so somethings may not make sense
tell me if something does
i tried to doublecheck everything probably missed something

[Vex Vience]

also a50 read and mwnn reads pends on their posts rn

[Vex Vience]

wanting to see what a50 means by mwnn does post even in vla
and mwnn not being here yesterday

[Vex Vience]

prod RECEIVED im at a bar rn hi

cant remember if i unvoted so UNVOTE:

i have a solid group of people in my head that are probs town ill get to that tomorrow because i dont work or school tomorrow

holding u to this, im also setting a reminder on my phone
reminder is set for 9am tmrw

id say my top townread is def creature for the record

{creature, myself}
{skitter}
{ruru, enigma}
{mwnn, hws, sky, anti} - null
{frank, gamma}
{almost}
{none}
color code:

i have kinda similar reads to you except i think ruru is still ~nullscum and a50 i had as pretty hard town earlier but this mwnn development is making me question that

also anti is maybe nulltown? not sure yet

ruru i think could be townie, kinda debating on that
im seeing effort from their earlier shitposting phase which i like
i was also tring a50 earlier but the mwnn thing really made me stop

i'm not entirely sure why you won't source this ...

Because the game is slowing down and I don't want to fall into apathy so I decided to pick a fight. Do you want to fight with me?

agreeing with skitter, this is one of the worst things to pick a fight on
tbh you just trying to pick a fight on this makes me not want to anymore only bc it seems like its just a waste of time if its worth picking a fight over

[Vex Vience]

forgot to reply to skys quote, fml
@sky thanks for that wonderful insight on creature being town

[Vex Vience]

this is a dumb thing to pick a fight about, no offense

all it does is make me wonder if this is an actual thing or if you made it up

You're not thinking straight and are letting "local events" affect your "global read" on me. That said, I'll try to point you to the right direction: Why would scum!me SR specifically 4 people and TR everyone else? Does it not "limit" my space to maneuver that I TR as many people? The space you are well aware I need to get both my "mis"lynches and my NKs through?? And why would scum!me be trying to intimidate a TOWN READ on mine? Am I trying to pocket him or alienate him here?? Finally, why would I be voicing my suspicions of MWNN when I know for a fact he can't be lynched on D1 (or at least not at this point of the day), given that the site meta is against lynching lurkers and especially so when they've declared V/LA?? You try to think of a scum motive for me to be doing all this, and then IF you find one you'd be more than welcome to reevaluate your initial read on me.

ill think about this
so far: my thoughts went to a modified too scummy to be scum type thing.
u try to tr as many people just to try to appear as town meanwhile ur actually scum
ill think about it a bit more tho

[Vex Vience]

this is a dumb thing to pick a fight about, no offense

all it does is make me wonder if this is an actual thing or if you made it up

You're not thinking straight and are letting "local events" affect your "global read" on me. That said, I'll try to point you to the right direction: Why would scum!me SR specifically 4 people and TR everyone else? Does it not "limit" my space to maneuver that I TR as many people? The space you are well aware I need to get both my "mis"lynches and my NKs through?? And why would scum!me be trying to intimidate a TOWN READ on mine? Am I trying to pocket him or alienate him here?? Finally, why would I be voicing my suspicions of MWNN when I know for a fact he can't be lynched on D1 (or at least not at this point of the day), given that the site meta is against lynching lurkers and especially so when they've declared V/LA?? You try to think of a scum motive for me to be doing all this, and then IF you find one you'd be more than welcome to reevaluate your initial read on me.

ok so, thought about it a bit more:
theres twelve people, with 9 town and 3 mafia. u hang 3 town and nk 3 of them, mafia automatically wins.
u can tr ur scumbuddies, and sr the others, and shoot the people u tr'd.
as for intimidating tr, im not sure who ur talking about nor what ur really meaning
and for mwnn, u could be setting up for a ml later in the game.
however, i do agree this is a far-fetched theory

a50s reaction to skitter feels kinda natural to me
im gonna be re-evaling him soon

Might just be a playstyle difference then but in general that pings my scumdar

Although skitter is saying that I might be making a mistake for thinking similarly of Gemerald

it is a playstyle difference
i find questioning (to an extend) townie before it becomes just pure "all i do is ask questions and nothing else"

That's what I was trying to say too.

glad we understand

You said that after my post though.

And you can base reads on what people say apart from your questions, too.

If you're only/mostly asking questions and or discussing the setup it looks like empty busywork to me. If it goes on too long

do you currently think that vex is doing the busy-work sort of questioning?

Currently, no, he's way better, I like the fact that the absence of reads is made up for by that pretty huge post. His questions earlier were what kinda pinged me + the setup discussion which was a dead horse or so I thought.

(im making this remark at the risk of accidentally outting my main (if u guys really are that determined to search everyone's games for a similar reads style))
thats how i do my reads just as a headsup, dont expect many small reads posts apart from a "i like x" or "i think y is scum" with some short reasoning type posts.
i do most of my reads as the giant wall of everyone once or twice a day rather than a bunch of smaller read posts many times per day. personally for me, the giant wall helps me out the most bc i explain everything i think about peoples iso, (and yes, itll cover multiple days, ull see that if i get to late-game), plus i get to organize my thoughts much more cleanly than a google doc or solo-pt of random quotes and ideas.
u also get to see how i got to the conclusion of "x is (town/scum)" and how that idea changed over time.

expect another giant wall post before eod assuming we dont wagon someone while im working on the reads

[Vex Vience]

@mod mwnn and creature need a prod as well

[Vex Vience]

i also kinda don't know why enigma's vote is parked on vex...? why is that?

enigma joke-voted me because i stole a pagetop
they just haven't unvoted yet

[Vex Vience]

@sky post ur reads as well plz

[Vex Vience]

@mod mwnn and creature need a prod as well

Creature has been prodded. Since ManWithNoName was V/LA through Wednesday, I'll give him ~12 hours before issuing a prod.

ok

@skitter, i see 268 and accompanying previous games. will get to that later today

and yeah as everyone's already noticed, scumreading the v/la guy for NO CONTENT is bs. townreading the top 5 active posters is also a pretty easy position to take and..... doesn't have an accompanying explanation.

i think a50 said that his tr on me was mostly gut
not sure

@a50, correct me if im wrong:
ur tring me bc i tried speculating the setup, (basically a soulread)
ur tring sky bc of the whole "im watching avatar" followed by her changing her avatar to say "im town"
ur tring hws bc u like his posts
ur tring skitter because u know her

u claim to have explained ruru's tr, yet i dont see it anywhere

also, looking at a50s iso trying ti find where he explained the trs, i found this:

Even you don't buy the case.. even if there is no case to begin with..

just wagon someone to L-2 and see what happens.

Hell, if it needs be.. we can run TWO competing wagons at the same time and see who votes which and why.

i dont like this at all
i really dont
it just feels off to me
idl the whole vfr thing, (vote for roles, it comes from town of salem where everyone votes up someone

just

to get them to claim).
a50 trying to vfr (or at least suggesting we should) feels very off to me

the south end of vex's reads list is good

ruru seems town to me too. skitter is competent and makes not-awful posts and i hope she's town but i still haven't gotten a good thing to get a grip on to really TOWNREAD her

enigma's posting is acceptable but i'm not really townreading him at all...?

overall i like skitters tone and posting. to me it seems like skitter is trying to gamesolve and scumhunt which i really like
enigma is a weakish town read. i see them as having town motive, not so much under scum motive

[Vex Vience]

Sky's entrance to the game is alarming. Everything she said so far "could" be interpreted as a mere joke. However -in my experience- joking about lynching the IC always comes from scum. And her last post/joke is even more alarming. I feel like it's been made for the sole purpose of declaring herself as the true traitor. It's as if she took ruru's earlier post about the traitor as an inquiry and is responding to it in fashion.

So,

my case on Sky is she is the Traitor

to counter this post quickly:
this post, this post and this post all come from the same game where people joked about hanging the ic
just read the pregame and look at those posts
both scum and town can joke around and vote the mod-confirmed ic

[Vex Vience]

i dont like these posts
"ill explain y its wrong"
"haha jk i dont wanna out an alt"
please explain the reasoning and for future reference, if it involving outting an alt, dont say u have reasoning unless the alts been outed already

It makes sense to me
Don't make me have to give the explanation on why this is wrong > I don't want to out your alt
Does that not seem logical?
As for the actual logic I remember a game where someone joked about lynching the IC, A50's alt didn't comment on it as far as I remember, but it definitely was brought to everyone's attention for a little bit and the person who made the joke is someone who I definitely remember being town that game, so it's wrong for A50 to be acting like this here.

ur logic doesnt make sense to me, so please, enlighten me

[Vex Vience]

now i do, but a50 said that both his alts are outted, so whats stopping you now?

[Vex Vience]

DO YOU GET IT?

also, this frustration feels faked

[Vex Vience]

Because you took BP.

[Vex Vience]

That'd be why.

[Vex Vience]

scum!you could take the vig shot, and get away till d3/4
also better question, why is town!you trying to bait vig shot as well?

[Vex Vience]

italics - idk who this is referring to

I was talking about Vex. I said he was a TR of mine, yet I appear to be teasing him. If I'm scum I can either be trying to pocket him (with the TR) or alienate him (with the intimidation) but not both. If I wanted to pocket him then I wouldn't try to bug him, and if my purpose was to bug him then why the TR?

what if ur trying to confuse everyone?
also u trying to pocket and alienate me isnt working

Also, you do realize I'm now the prime target for a Vig shot? In fact, here's a list of all possible TPRs in this setup:

again, why try to make yourself a target for the vig?
regardless of ur alignment, that's a throw

- Goon Cop: Probably gonna check me, but maybe scum!me picked a modifier

no godfather mod for scum to take

- Roleblocker: Probably will consider targeting me, bit maybe I don't do the NK tonight

Hint: If scum picked no modifier it's one or the other, and if it's a Goon Cop I'm doomed. If they did pick at least one modifier then both could be applicable and I've just wasted my N1 action

- Tracker: Similar to RB (i.e. I won't be the one carrying the NK tonight)
- Bodyguard: I sure as hell am not going to be protected by them anyway. Not with an IC in play.
- Vigilante: Check the start of this post. Anyone who might not be sure what I'm doing will probably just "do it"

Now think about me being the Traitor: Vig shooting me and me not dying is a red herring. They may assume they were RB'd on N1 so that saves me from the lynch, but then they're sure to try again on N2, and if I don't die I'm going to be lynched on D3 regardless.

Now, reread and recalculate.. does SCUM!ALMOST50 know all this, and still do what he is doing?? Why would scum!me be

baiting the Vig shot

at all????

[Vex Vience]

i dont like this at all
i really dont
it just feels off to me
idl the whole vfr thing, (vote for roles, it comes from town of salem where everyone votes up someone just to get them to claim).
a50 trying to vfr (or at least suggesting we should) feels very off to me

i didn't really read that as an attempt to institute vfr; i thought he was interested in wagonomics and wanted to see who would join and/or leave the wagon

i can see that, but i kinda see it as an attempt at vfr as well
the two wagons part is where i get the wagonomics thing, but not really the solo wagon

[Vex Vience]

idl the whole vfr thing, (vote for roles, it comes from town of salem where everyone votes up someone just to get them to claim).

I never played on ToS

it was a thing in ranked games for a bit thats been mostly phased out by now
it helps scum more than town because then they know who to kill

[Vex Vience]

which is why im exactly against it

[Vex Vience]

no godfather mod for scum to take

goon cop only gets guilties on mafia goons

yea, i just figured that out
im dumb

I don't think that one is? He can tell me whether it is, he should know which game I'm talking about. I'm going to drop a name from the game, he should be able to locate it with that.

I know the game but I;m not sure I want to check back, Anyway, I am "AP" and I am "Judge Joseph Dredd" (I believe the latter is the one in question?)

P.S. I used "latter" correctly!

gj

Because you took BP.

GOOD EXPLANATION! BP indeed is unaffected by all TPRs except the Tracker. Well done!

So, with the knowledge that I'm indeed the BP Mafioso, how about you reread my ISO and find my teammates. I gave you a big head start and you should be thanking me for it.

im not sure if i believe this or not, but at any rate, i feel like this is a throw

no godfather mod for scum to take

if a goon has any sort of mod (like bulletproof or joat or anything) they're no longer a goon and return 'not goon' to the goon cop

unrecruited traitor also returns 'not goon' iirc

just realized that, and yea, unrecruited traitor would return 'not goon'.

why is town!you trying to bait vig shot as well?

I think I'll take the 5th on this one.



Somebody get this guy a copy of the Bill of Rights

VOTE: A50

if anyone wants to convince me a50 is not scum, be my guest.
coupling this with the case im making on him, i'm 99.9% sure a50 is scum

[Vex Vience]

@skitter my thing that im mainly looking at is: why would town!a50 try to bait vigi shot into him in the first place?
scum!a50, (namely traitor!a50) has a reason to: if he feels that there is no vigi in the game, he can try to act scummy and bait mafia kill into him to try to get them to know that he's the traitor
couple that with the fact that he's refusing to answer my questions, i feel that he's scum here
if he flips town, im saying its a solid throw from him

pedit: exactly what i was thinking, he's traitor
ppedit: hang a50 plz thank me later
pppedit: jfc ninja'd again

[Vex Vience]

Spoiler: updated reads

{creature, myself}

{skitter}

{ruru, enigma}

{mwnn, sky, anti, hws}

- null

{frank, gamma}

{none}

{almost}

- i see no town motive from his recent posts
anti's alignment is also not the same as a50s i think
also starting to like anti a bit
starting to like hws a bit, just want more content from him, (and really all my other nulls). hws is nulltown
everyone else to get a more updated read on id have to do some isodiving

color code:

confirmed/lock town

,

strong town

,

weak town

,

null

,

weak scum

,

strong scum

,

confirmed/lock scum

weak - still unsure about alignment
strong - very certain about what they are

wall comes in about 2 irl days if we dont hang a50 by then
p burnt out from making a case on a50 for 1.5 hrs earlier

doesn't town start with 3tprs?

or did i just make that up

the only modifer i'd pick here is daytalk tbh

only two tprs

[Vex Vience]

@skitter my thing that im mainly looking at is: why would town!a50 try to bait vigi shot into him in the first place?
scum!a50, (namely traitor!a50) has a reason to: if he feels that there is no vigi in the game, he can try to act scummy and bait mafia kill into him to try to get them to know that he's the traitor
couple that with the fact that he's refusing to answer my questions, i feel that he's scum here
if he flips town, im saying its a solid throw from him

pedit: exactly what i was thinking, he's traitor
ppedit: hang a50 plz thank me later
pppedit: jfc ninja'd again

why would scum shoot someone they think is the traitor ... that's a dumb waste of a shot imo

and why would traitor!a50 know/think there is/isn't a traitor?

i don't why getting vig-shot is on his mind at all; like taht's not really something i think about most of the time; maybe like at end of day after a flip or something, but it's not really on my mind in middle of the day

i don't think this is how he acts as groupscum at this stage of the game

but if he's traitor signalling ... he's doing a pretty bad job of it and he thinks he just made himself a vig target so why isn't he modulating his behavior here?

if groupscum believe theres no vigi, they can safely hit the traitor and confirm for a fact if they are the traitor or not, no?
who else is gonna nk the traitor?

what do u mean on the bolded part as well?

[Vex Vience]

@gamma this post

[Vex Vience]

couple that with the fact that he's refusing to answer my questions

Hello, Eragon. Is that you? "It's his fault anyway, because I'm never wrong!"

And when did I become the center of your universe? Do you realize your one and only obsession has become A50? Are you not looking for 3 scums? Are you not interested in sorting anyone else???

also im not eragon
i would tell u if u got it right or not... after the game

still dont like a50, especially after saying they were mafia bp
will reply to the rest of the things sunday

VOTE: frank
thats for the skitter sr
like skitter is almost certainly town to me

[Vex Vience]

also @a50, when u claim mafia bp, it kinda makes people wanna focus on u, js

[Vex Vience]

can u literally give me a minute to reply to the rest of the thread or no?

[Vex Vience]

time for a wall guys even though i should be doing schoolwork

Spoiler: a50 scummy posts

i'm not entirely sure why you won't source this ...

Because the game is slowing down and I don't want to fall into apathy so I decided to pick a fight. Do you want to fight with me?

why not fight with me

because I want the fight to go a certain route and my forecast of your responses won't serve said goal.

see, this is the type of thing that i find really scummy
ur saying that you have a certain goal in mind of this fight, y would town have that?

then, a50 makes a bunch of posts regarding him being goon, which i absolutely despise

i don't understand the bolded

Town starts with only 2 TPRs and gain one for each modifier the Mafia picks. If Mafia picked no modifiers we have only 2 TPRs and one is the IC, so we can only have a Goon Cop OR a Roleblocker (or neither) but not both.

So, assuming no modifiers then I'm a GOON, so the Goon Cop can guilty me if they check me.

On the other hand I may have opted to pick a modifier to avoid that, but then the RB will stop me from doing whatever the modifier is supposed to do (except the BP as Vex pointed out). I was thinking of Role Cop and/or JOAT tbh. An active ability in other words. Recruiting the Traitor and/or activating Daytalk doesn't really change my status as a goon. I just missed the BP part (which iirc is a very good pick for scum if they decide to pick just one modifier, so keep that in mind for when we -hopefully- roll scum together in this setup sometime in the future).

I'm confused

So am I! I don't know why anyone would think of shooting me tbh. I probably am just paranoid and overreacting iirc.

So, who should the Vig be targeting tonight in your view?

u literally claimed to have been scum y do u not think a vig would try killing you?

coupling this with the case im making on him, i'm 99.9% sure a50 is scum

Don't put all your eggs in one basket, my friend. Make that 90% for your own sake. 80% would make it look even better, while 50% makes you look confused (in a justified way), gets the job done and saves you the headache of the aftermath.

You know what looks even more scummy? THIS:

VOTE: A50

And YES, I have self-voted before as BOTH alignments, and I have even hammered myself as Town on D1 to make a point. We WON that game too!! (I don't remember is it was under AP or JJD though).

selfvoting

why would town!a50 try to bait vigi shot into him in the first place?

Why do you think I'm baiting the Vig shot at all? What gave you the impression that I am?? HOW DO YOU KNOW there is a Vig in the first place?

Like, I simply mentioned POSSIBILITIES, and everybody seems to have just "accepted" there is a Vig in play. How about the RB? What about the Goon Cop? Why not the Tracker????

r u fucking kidding me on this post?
gee, idfk, maybe the

FACT U FUCKING CLAIMED FUCKING MAFIA BP??

i don't really think you've towntold tbh

skitter, put your head together in the game if you intend to win it. ruru is as town as you and I are. Sky is very very very likely town too. I dunno about Creature, but ofrhz says he's Town so I will sheep her. He's not active enough for my liking though, and Town!Creature could prove the difference between a Town win and a town loss.

\

"as town as you and I are"
thats saying a lot considering u claimed mafia bp

Getting yourself lynched d1 is hardly optimal traitor play, especially not if you're a50 and have a strong scumgame

We should also just agree to never vig or gc jestery players (sky, a50) and use the lynch on them instead if they're widely scumread

gc can make sure theyre not goon, vig can make sure theyre not bp/traitor

couple that with the fact that he's refusing to answer my questions

Hello, Eragon. Is that you? "It's his fault anyway, because I'm never wrong!"

And when did I become the center of your universe? Do you realize your one and only obsession has become A50? Are you not looking for 3 scums? Are you not interested in sorting anyone else???

also im not eragon
i would tell u if u got it right or not... after the game

still dont like a50, especially after saying they were mafia bp
will reply to the rest of the things sunday

VOTE: frank
thats for the skitter sr
like skitter is almost certainly town to me

That's the thing he isn't certainly town for me.

How is he so town?

i like her posting so far overall, i'll be working on another wall-reads bc a50 literally claimed mafia bp earlier
so
also i find u scummier atm bc of the reads
the fact that u rushed them kinda feels a bit odd
and another thing: im the top poster, yet u said that a50 had a lot of posts to sift through??

[Vex Vience]

i have 102 posts (as of this one) v a50s 68 and skitters 64
something on those lines doesnt add up
also when it comes to reads when ur being asked for it, u should take ur time and think about it

[Vex Vience]

im personally fine with leaving whatever the fuck a50 is alive for now and hanging frank
wall readpost is being worked on as well

[Vex Vience]

What standards are those so we can get a little more specific

I dunno. You're NOT using any.

Also,

IF SOMEONE CLAIMS A PR TODAY

DO NOT CC

Spoiler: Here's why:

Generally speaking, doomed scum will fake a claim to out the most dangerous PR (if exists) according to the modifications (or lack thereof) they picked. If that PR isn't in the game then there will be no CC anyway. Now let me not go into too much details and go straight to the point:

- Claiming Vigilante when a Town Vig does exist = Just shoot the claimer. If they're BP we'll deal with it on D2, but there is always a chance the Vig will kill the scum w.o. the need to out themselves.

- Claiming Bodyguard: Chances are he BG will flip sometime during the game anyway, so we will know it was a fake claim. (Actually this one "may claim if they want to", since they're dying anyway, and most probably protecting the IC, so I'll leave it to your best judgement)

- Claiming Tracker: Obviously we want results from the Tracker, and the longer they live the more reliable their results will be, so no need to eat a bullet on N1 in exchange of lynching a scumster on D1. I hope you know what to do in this case though.

- Claiming Roleblocker: Also more valuable towards the game end. Best play is to block the fake claimer thus forcing scum to use someone else to do the kill AND making them lose their modification if they have one.

- Claiming Goon Cop: This role is intended to find us at least one scum if it could. If the fake claimer is a goon (and the only one) then you should claim, but how do we know that? Best play is to try and find others (if any) and if you get shot we will know whom to lynch anyway, but if you do get a guilty on someone else then that's when you claim and you give us TWO scums instead of just one.

If you disagree with any of this, feel free to do what you will, but

please

don't discuss alternative strategies. Discussing certain details may still give your role away w.o. even the need for scum to fake claim anything.

Thanks for your attention.

ok but plz explain y tf u claimed mafia bp

[Vex Vience]

oh hypoing gc results?
im down with that
thats fine

pedit: i mean, if im right ruru, frank + a50 is the team with someone else being traitor
if we have rber, they leash a50 and we can just traitorhunt for the rest of the game

[Vex Vience]

if we have rber, they leash a50 and we can just traitorhunt for the rest of the game

What if I'm strongman??

See? You're practically baiting me to respond this way!

ok, u get by one kill then we keep rbing u
what do u do then?

[Vex Vience]

if we have rber, they leash a50 and we can just traitorhunt for the rest of the game

What if I'm strongman??

See? You're practically baiting me to respond this way!

ok, u get by one kill then we keep rbing u
what do u do then?

Since we're playing chicken, what if my NK hits the RB??

ok we hang u, u flip scum
thats clearly the next logical step

[Vex Vience]

A50/ruru/Creature/skitter/vex feel town imo

explain?

[Vex Vience]

ok we hang u, u flip scum
thats clearly the next logical step

And we're back to square #1: What if I flip TOWN???

You see, the only flaw in your plan here is you're still thinking of me as the center of the universe (or the lead character in this drama, if you will), and while that flatters me -of course- I feel it could be a distraction to you (as well as anybody who follows you) from seeing the whole picture.

not really
waiting on sky to explain reads, waiting on enigma, creature, hws, mwnn and anti to post, waiting on better reads from frank
so while i could be working on wallposts, im a bit burnt out on that so what better thing do i really have to do?

also if u flip town, im saying that u threw, by claiming mafia in the first place and then will actively refuse to talk to you ;3

[Vex Vience]

i mean what do u expect me to do apart from pursue a hypothetical scenario while im waiting for everyone to post?

[Vex Vience]

ill reply and catchup after work

[Vex Vience]

Still waiting on ru and a50 to talk to me

... and I'm still waiting for you to explain why you're nullreading me when you're calling the majority of my content scummy self-meta and not giving any further analysis

Your readslist has only three townreads in a game with twelve players

Two of them are "leans", and one of them is a "small lean"

so basically I think I'm in the "lynch later" pile but you don't think it's politically viable so you just called me null

Youre expecting waaayyyyy too much from an early D1 reads list.

Why do I need to have such binary reads right now anyway?

Is it that unusual that I have such a big null pile?

Yeah you had a lot of self meta, which is bad. Way more scum motivation than town.

if i can make a wall reads list like 4 irl days into d1, u should have no problem doing the same at this point in d1

[Vex Vience]

Some peoe form reads differently/at different rates

yes but my point is if i can make a wall post 3/4 days into d1, frank should have no issues making one about 7 days into d1 because there’s so much more content.

[Vex Vience]

catchup from me comes in an hour or so

[Vex Vience]

also im wanting to hear from ceejay now before they also just lurk out

[Vex Vience]

Nothing. I concede that with as many players holding back we have nothing better to do .. unless of course you wanna be Jeff Daniels and I can be Jim Carrey. No? Didn't think so, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

how do u know i wouldnt say yes?

Vex I'm not asking for a wall, but a little more than a "feeling" would be nice. the auto town read just seems confident for D1

i like skitters tone over all.
i feel like shes trying to actively gamesolve and scumhunt rn, unlike u

Someone entertain me

ok

What standards are those so we can get a little more specific

I dunno. You're NOT using any.

Also,

IF SOMEONE CLAIMS A PR TODAY

DO NOT CC

Spoiler: Here's why:

Generally speaking, doomed scum will fake a claim to out the most dangerous PR (if exists) according to the modifications (or lack thereof) they picked. If that PR isn't in the game then there will be no CC anyway. Now let me not go into too much details and go straight to the point:

- Claiming Vigilante when a Town Vig does exist = Just shoot the claimer. If they're BP we'll deal with it on D2, but there is always a chance the Vig will kill the scum w.o. the need to out themselves.

- Claiming Bodyguard: Chances are he BG will flip sometime during the game anyway, so we will know it was a fake claim. (Actually this one "may claim if they want to", since they're dying anyway, and most probably protecting the IC, so I'll leave it to your best judgement)

- Claiming Tracker: Obviously we want results from the Tracker, and the longer they live the more reliable their results will be, so no need to eat a bullet on N1 in exchange of lynching a scumster on D1. I hope you know what to do in this case though.

- Claiming Roleblocker: Also more valuable towards the game end. Best play is to block the fake claimer thus forcing scum to use someone else to do the kill AND making them lose their modification if they have one.

- Claiming Goon Cop: This role is intended to find us at least one scum if it could. If the fake claimer is a goon (and the only one) then you should claim, but how do we know that? Best play is to try and find others (if any) and if you get shot we will know whom to lynch anyway, but if you do get a guilty on someone else then that's when you claim and you give us TWO scums instead of just one.

If you disagree with any of this, feel free to do what you will, but

please

don't discuss alternative strategies. Discussing certain details may still give your role away w.o. even the need for scum to fake claim anything.

Thanks for your attention.

2/10

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Almost50

You can't yell don't talk spec after this lol.
Your vote stinks too

y cant he? i see it as a valid point to not try to discuss spec after posting that
his vote actually is alright too

Someone entertain me

how?

Who's obvtown?

skitter imo

Still waiting on ru and a50 to talk to me

... and I'm still waiting for you to explain why you're nullreading me when you're calling the majority of my content scummy self-meta and not giving any further analysis

Your readslist has only three townreads in a game with twelve players

Two of them are "leans", and one of them is a "small lean"

so basically I think I'm in the "lynch later" pile but you don't think it's politically viable so you just called me null

Youre expecting waaayyyyy too much from an early D1 reads list.

Why do I need to have such binary reads right now anyway?

Is it that unusual that I have such a big null pile?

Yeah you had a lot of self meta, which is bad. Way more scum motivation than town.

i mean u had longer to make a reads list than i did, ergo u should have less reads unless u didnt really try to make it

So scum will avoid it. Meaning town questions it. Except one of them is scum. Makes perfect sense.

How do you decide which one is the scum?

How do you come to the conclusion that it is remotely worth it to even try this?

Nothing makes sense about the whole thing.

Town have no reason to lie so early in the game for such a trivial reason.

no it does make sense to me
y wouldnt one scum try to blend in by questioning it?

I'm catching up in the middle of the vig talk and don't see why scum A51 would want to gambit bait the vig shot... As either alignment? I feel the only way to resolve this is shooting him and if he doesn't die he's the BP goon? Or is tired!hws being dumb here

im not sure either, still trying to figure out that

I feel like Vex is definitely town from his efforts, not sure about anyone else

"Effort is alignment indicative, but only for Vex"

Its not the effort itself, but it's directed towards that I townread. He seems dedicated to advancing the game in a pro town way

And I'm not?

i dont think claiming bp mafia is very game advancing

couple that with the fact that he's refusing to answer my questions

Hello, Eragon. Is that you? "It's his fault anyway, because I'm never wrong!"

And when did I become the center of your universe? Do you realize your one and only obsession has become A50? Are you not looking for 3 scums? Are you not interested in sorting anyone else???

also im not eragon
i would tell u if u got it right or not... after the game

still dont like a50, especially after saying they were mafia bp
will reply to the rest of the things sunday

VOTE: frank
thats for the skitter sr
like skitter is almost certainly town to me

claiming scum bp i think was in jest; i don't scumread that

i don't really care that frank is scumreading me; i'm more concerned that he was talking to me like he thought i was town just above giving me a scumread

it could be but it still brings up the question of y would he?

This is going over my head you guys

same

ManWithNoName has not responded to his prod.

---

ceejayvinoya replaces ManWithNoName. Welcome!

how long till ceejay lurks out guys?

Vex
Feels town to me for now. I think just with the sheet amount of content, some scum intentions would slip through somewhere. As I read through, I don't really see much of this in places. He is actively putting pressure and scum hunting, particularly the interaction with A50.

--
Night actions
(stemming from a50's 321). We don't know what PRs are in play and many of the actions are not conclusive for town. E.g. a vig can be roleblocked etc. D1 discussion on hypo night actions I don't are particularly helpful, and tbh I feel it is a little bit AI towards scum as there are too many unknowns at this stage for someone townie to even want to engage in all this hypo stuff.

like i said what else did i really have to do at that moment, was waiting on others to post so i could refine my earlier reads

1. Don't CC any fake claims
2. Vote for who you want to (hypo) vig with hurt tags
3. Hypo cop results tomorrow

UNVOTE:
Waiting a bit

whoa, you're just running with ruru's plan?

Yeh? It benefits town?

i agree this is helpful towards town
y are u against it?

It;s like the VT Cop (VT, not just Vanilla) in a role madness. The VT Cop will only be able to identify the one VT in the game. If there are "named townies" (like, if there's a Miller with no alignment Cop in play or a Nurse with no Doctor in play, or a Macho Citizen.. etc. they will give a "not a VT" result still). If that was a VANILLA Cop though then only true Vanilla Townies and Mafia Goons will give them a positive result.

P-edit: A50 is NEVER a good "Vig" hit. A50 is a good NK for scum and a good Investigation target for Town unless he obv!Towns in which case the Mafia are sure to take care of him on N1. In short, you don't need to worry about me before D3 (and chances I won't even be alive by then)

tbh i feel like creature or myself is the most likely n1 kill
the other one certainly gets killed the next night imo

the slots that I'm most interested in right now (hws/sky/cjv) are all afk

well I guess I'm interested in this: how are you reading frank/hws/sky/antihero/enigma?

frank is scum
hws is null
sky is null
anti is null
enigma is town

would have to look back at {hws, sky, anti} iso a bit more to give u something past null

[Vex Vience]

Oh no!

i dont like this
still like frank for lynch
HURT: sky

[Vex Vience]

im kinda here, im working on my wall reads rn

[Vex Vience]

updated wall reads - final one before eod

Spoiler: almost

(old wall went thru post #256)

@Vex: There comes the part where I really hate it. You want me to rewrite my whole ISO? I know I -at least- explained the TRs on HWS, Sky, ruru & you. I hinted on the skitter read, but to reiterate I know her well enough to notice if she's being manipulative or withdrawn and she's not. Enigma is also posting in a townie manner .. like how am I supposed to explain what "posting in a townie matter" means?

Gamma hasn't given me that Town vibe just yet, but he hasn't obv!Scummed either, so he's more of "backup" candidate for scum, but I treated him as an equal to the other 3 to be fair to them.

Now what exactly is townie in any of Anti/Frank/MWNN's ISOs? The latter is a strong scum lean for the very fact you would null read him: NO CONTENT. I know he can do MUCH better than this if he wanted to.

i still dont like the scumreading the vla slot

i'm not entirely sure why you won't source this ...

Because the game is slowing down and I don't want to fall into apathy so I decided to pick a fight. Do you want to fight with me?

i dont really feel like trying to pick a fight is necessarily pro-town, i kinda feel like some scum intentions could come thru that, but im not sure what they'd be

this is a dumb thing to pick a fight about, no offense

all it does is make me wonder if this is an actual thing or if you made it up

You're not thinking straight and are letting "local events" affect your "global read" on me. That said, I'll try to point you to the right direction: Why would scum!me SR specifically 4 people and TR everyone else? Does it not "limit" my space to maneuver that I TR as many people? The space you are well aware I need to get both my "mis"lynches and my NKs through?? And why would scum!me be trying to intimidate a TOWN READ on mine? Am I trying to pocket him or alienate him here?? Finally, why would I be voicing my suspicions of MWNN when I know for a fact he can't be lynched on D1 (or at least not at this point of the day), given that the site meta is against lynching lurkers and especially so when they've declared V/LA?? You try to think of a scum motive for me to be doing all this, and then IF you find one you'd be more than welcome to reevaluate your initial read on me.

this post feels townie
it brings up a valid point: why would scum!a50 wanna limit his pool

that

much?

italics - idk who this is referring to

I was talking about Vex. I said he was a TR of mine, yet I appear to be teasing him. If I'm scum I can either be trying to pocket him (with the TR) or alienate him (with the intimidation) but not both. If I wanted to pocket him then I wouldn't try to bug him, and if my purpose was to bug him then why the TR?

Also, you do realize I'm now the prime target for a Vig shot? In fact, here's a list of all possible TPRs in this setup:

- Goon Cop: Probably gonna check me, but maybe scum!me picked a modifier
- Roleblocker: Probably will consider targeting me, bit maybe I don't do the NK tonight

Hint: If scum picked no modifier it's one or the other, and if it's a Goon Cop I'm doomed. If they did pick at least one modifier then both could be applicable and I've just wasted my N1 action

- Tracker: Similar to RB (i.e. I won't be the one carrying the NK tonight)
- Bodyguard: I sure as hell am not going to be protected by them anyway. Not with an IC in play.
- Vigilante: Check the start of this post. Anyone who might not be sure what I'm doing will probably just "do it"

Now think about me being the Traitor: Vig shooting me and me not dying is a red herring. They may assume they were RB'd on N1 so that saves me from the lynch, but then they're sure to try again on N2, and if I don't die I'm going to be lynched on D3 regardless.

Now, reread and recalculate.. does SCUM!ALMOST50 know all this, and still do what he is doing?? Why would scum!me be

baiting the Vig shot

at all????

again, well written post, i feel like this is a bit townie

i'm not entirely sure why you won't source this ...

Because the game is slowing down and I don't want to fall into apathy so I decided to pick a fight. Do you want to fight with me?

why not fight with me

because I want the fight to go a certain route and my forecast of your responses won't serve said goal.

not sure what to make of this post
this doesnt really feel all that townie to me
it feels like a50 has an agenda hes pushing with this post and by trying to make sure the fight goes a certain way

---

the next few posts are from when he scumclaimed:

Because you took BP.

GOOD EXPLANATION! BP indeed is unaffected by all TPRs except the Tracker. Well done!

the next few posts
So, with the knowledge that I'm indeed the BP Mafioso, how about you reread my ISO and find my teammates. I gave you a big head start and you should be thanking me for it.

why is town!you trying to bait vig shot as well?

I think I'll take the 5th on this one.



Somebody get this guy a copy of the Bill of Rights

i don't understand the bolded

Town starts with only 2 TPRs and gain one for each modifier the Mafia picks. If Mafia picked no modifiers we have only 2 TPRs and one is the IC, so we can only have a Goon Cop OR a Roleblocker (or neither) but not both.

So, assuming no modifiers then I'm a GOON, so the Goon Cop can guilty me if they check me.

On the other hand I may have opted to pick a modifier to avoid that, but then the RB will stop me from doing whatever the modifier is supposed to do (except the BP as Vex pointed out). I was thinking of Role Cop and/or JOAT tbh. An active ability in other words. Recruiting the Traitor and/or activating Daytalk doesn't really change my status as a goon. I just missed the BP part (which iirc is a very good pick for scum if they decide to pick just one modifier, so keep that in mind for when we -hopefully- roll scum together in this setup sometime in the future).

coupling this with the case im making on him, i'm 99.9% sure a50 is scum

Don't put all your eggs in one basket, my friend. Make that 90% for your own sake. 80% would make it look even better, while 50% makes you look confused (in a justified way), gets the job done and saves you the headache of the aftermath.

You know what looks even more scummy? THIS:

VOTE: A50

And YES, I have self-voted before as BOTH alignments, and I have even hammered myself as Town on D1 to make a point. We WON that game too!! (I don't remember is it was under AP or JJD though).

i dont really like those posts in general, however... im actually soulreading that, (the selfvote at least)
i kinda get the feeling thats more likely to come from town!a50 rather than scum!a50
like skitters said, a50 is a good scum player so why would scum!a50 do that?

why would town!a50 try to bait vigi shot into him in the first place?

Why do you think I'm baiting the Vig shot at all? What gave you the impression that I am?? HOW DO YOU KNOW there is a Vig in the first place?

321
mainly because u asked y u would be, implying u were (to me at least)

couple that with the fact that he's refusing to answer my questions

Hello, Eragon. Is that you? "It's his fault anyway, because I'm never wrong!"

And when did I become the center of your universe? Do you realize your one and only obsession has become A50? Are you not looking for 3 scums? Are you not interested in sorting anyone else???

i was interested in sorting u at that moment

GE might be designated mislynch?

Yeah, I'm starting to get the same feeling. However, SRing skitter is out of proportion. TRing Antihero is illogical. His reads on me and you can be forgiven IMHO, but why give HWS a Town lean here is beyond me. It looks like he set up the reads first then went to find reasoning for them (i.e. he's not using the same standards).

you and i*
second person always comes first, you always come second

What standards are those so we can get a little more specific

I dunno. You're NOT using any.

Also,

IF SOMEONE CLAIMS A PR TODAY

DO NOT CC

Here's why: Generally speaking, doomed scum will fake a claim to out the most dangerous PR (if exists) according to the modifications (or lack thereof) they picked. If that PR isn't in the game then there will be no CC anyway. Now let me not go into too much details and go straight to the point:

- Claiming Vigilante when a Town Vig does exist = Just shoot the claimer. If they're BP we'll deal with it on D2, but there is always a chance the Vig will kill the scum w.o. the need to out themselves.

- Claiming Bodyguard: Chances are he BG will flip sometime during the game anyway, so we will know it was a fake claim. (Actually this one "may claim if they want to", since they're dying anyway, and most probably protecting the IC, so I'll leave it to your best judgement)

- Claiming Tracker: Obviously we want results from the Tracker, and the longer they live the more reliable their results will be, so no need to eat a bullet on N1 in exchange of lynching a scumster on D1. I hope you know what to do in this case though.

- Claiming Roleblocker: Also more valuable towards the game end. Best play is to block the fake claimer thus forcing scum to use someone else to do the kill AND making them lose their modification if they have one.

- Claiming Goon Cop: This role is intended to find us at least one scum if it could. If the fake claimer is a goon (and the only one) then you should claim, but how do we know that? Best play is to try and find others (if any) and if you get shot we will know whom to lynch anyway, but if you do get a guilty on someone else then that's when you claim and you give us TWO scums instead of just one.

If you disagree with any of this, feel free to do what you will, but

please

don't discuss alternative strategies. Discussing certain details may still give your role away w.o. even the need for scum to fake claim anything.

Thanks for your attention.

also like this post overall
seems pretty townie to me

ok but plz explain y tf u claimed mafia bp

You brought it up in a response to my post (which was mainly directed at skitter, but that's no problem) and your response was PERFECT. It was something I hadn't thought of, so I responded in my usual tongue-in-cheek manner.

As for why I play this way (in general) it's to liven up the thread, keep certain parties interested (and generating content) as well ... GET READS (through the reactions). You were more focussed on what I said (not blaming you), but you should have also paid attention to what others said (and what some didn't). Scum will

always

have a different reaction to a scum claim not coming from their team. I dunno how to explain it, but it usually gives one of them away (which is why the majority of them prefer not to engage on the issue and pretend it didn't exist).

So, the tldr is I do my scum hunting and reaction tests in the most unconventional ways. I also tend to crumb or hint my role (if I choose to) in some unconventional fashion as well. It is perfectly natural for someone who plays me for the first time to find me scummy for "being me" (unless -of course- when I do roll scum)

so what did u gain from it?

----

i feel like a50 is actually town however if i wanted to use a meta arguement i could say that a50s gambit meta is really easily faked
otherwise i feel like hes redeemed himself enough to make himself a

null

read for now
still hesitant on calling him town for rn

Spoiler: hws

still really nothing that i can make reads on
id like to see more content from him

null

for now

Spoiler: sky

(old wall went thru post #201)

A50/ruru/Creature/skitter/vex feel town imo

plz explain why

Oh no!

i dont like this post att all in response to the prod

im fairly certain sky isnt really town here
sky is a pretty solid

scumread

to me rn
i also think sky is a pretty good vig shot if we have one

Spoiler: ruru

(old wall went thru #126)

Getting yourself lynched d1 is hardly optimal traitor play, especially not if you're a50 and have a strong scumgame

We should also just agree to never vig or gc jestery players (sky, a50) and use the lynch on them instead if they're widely scumread

wut
vigs should shoot jestery players
i agree that gcs probably shouldnt check jestery players tho

Thing A

We're voting on vig shots

This is a good thing because:

• PRs can claim so they don't get shot (note: if you are a PR lined up to be vigged and either you're vig or feel there is a low chance of vig existing, you can and possibly should claim vt)
  
• Individuals are biased and have varying levels of competence and therefore tend to have worse reads than the majority on average
  
• More associative reads

Thing B

1. Please read this if you haven't

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... (by-Yates)

2. We're doing it starting tomorrow

And I'm policy lynching you if you don't, even if you're a cute baby monkey!

3. We're doing it right

How to pick cop/hypocop targets:

• Unlikely lynch
  
• Unlikely nightkill
  
• Useful if town
  
• Dangerous if scum
  
• Hard to read

DO NOT TRY TO LYNCH YOUR HYPO-INNO

GC can give false negatives but if you think someone is lockscum such that you will read them as scum PR or traitor despite a GC inno, you probably shouldn't be copping them which means you probably shouldn't be hypocopping them

Occasionally hypoclaiming "either I was roleblocked or I investigated a dead player" is also worthwhile as it could happen to the real GC (and scum don't know who was roleblocked anyway)

i really like this post
this post (to me) shows town motivation with a desire to try to help give the gc some cover

you continue to claim that you are intentionally playing somewhat scummy

I'm not playing intentionally scummy and I didn't claim to be playing intentionally scummy

There's a difference between playing intentionally scummy and not bothering to intentionally craft the towniest-sounding post possible (which I sometimes do as town)

For example, when I voted skygazer, I thought it might look like a scummy vote, but I also thought it had positive utility outside of just "is this going to get me townread or not"

Can you explain your Jager vote then?

I'm not townreading him

wait, ur not tring who ur voting??
sorry, had to say that
part of me wouldnt not let me

Because in the universe where you think exactly the same way as me it would make you.me townread me.me except that's not actually how logic works so whatever

this post just hurts my head to think about, plz dumb it down for me

a50 what are your thoughts on sky ellitelling

wdym?

not sure what to feel about ruru v skitter

still feel good about putting ruru as

weak town

.

Spoiler: anti

the only things ive really gotten from anti is stuff against gamma and against a50 + him saying that he likes rurus entrance.

still really nothing from anti that i could find that pinged me
he declared vla for weekend and said he'd get to it monday (yesterday)
waiting on where he is

starting to slightly lean towards him being

nullscum

only bc hes just lurking the whole time and not really being too active

Spoiler: ceejay

at least someone replaced mwnn.

Been through the first five pages. Vex is town.

I think Sky might be scum.

10 pages in.

Enigma is townie to me. Maybe skitter as well.

Dunno what to think of frank

do u care to explain y u think that?

I'll read the rest later.

when will that be?

null

Spoiler: enigma

(old wall went thru #93)

Reading from p11 onward and commenting, sorry if posts might seem like they are disjointed.

--
A50
I remember reading somewhere that A50 complaining about how he is a prime N1 target as both scum and town, kinda see why now. I've played with A50 a few times, but only with him as scum. He feels a bit different here though ... maybe in the game solving? Though the hypo scum me would do this/that including mod guessing isn't helping his case since there are too many variables for a mechanic play D1. As I mentioned previously, I'm not a huge fan of the V/LA push on MWNN considering it is a site-wide absence rather than this game only, but now that CJ is in the slot and should hopefully be more active (and I've played with CJ before and know his game a bit better) I'm leaning towards overlooking this for D1, though the associative will be interesting late game with more flips. For me, he is kinda a player that is night action bait and if he is alive in LYLO without hard clears you start asking some serious questions.

Ohh I don't know what to think of A50's self vote and then saying he does this as both alignments whilst acknowledging that this is scummy. Skitter pretty much walks through my entire wtf thought process on the next page.

--
Vex
Feels town to me for now. I think just with the sheet amount of content, some scum intentions would slip through somewhere. As I read through, I don't really see much of this in places. He is actively putting pressure and scum hunting, particularly the interaction with A50.

--
Night actions
(stemming from a50's 321). We don't know what PRs are in play and many of the actions are not conclusive for town. E.g. a vig can be roleblocked etc. D1 discussion on hypo night actions I don't are particularly helpful, and tbh I feel it is a little bit AI towards scum as there are too many unknowns at this stage for someone townie to even want to engage in all this hypo stuff.

--
Frank
Disagree with quite a few of his reads. HWS and antihero as town? I checked their ISOs and I'm struggling to find that perception ...
Franks 464 about A50s CC post is terrible.

--
Mechanics discussion
Agree with A50 about CC not being the optimal play. There is very little protection for town in this setup for outed PRs, and scum will be on a limited time towards endgame and it will unravel. Crumb enough so that it is enough to justify in a LYLO/MYLO situation.

You can read a50 and ruru as town/scum whatever, but what they do mention is an optimal play.

Not having a cop/vig doesn't matter. It provides cover for the situation that cop/vig exists. And maybe there isn't a cop/vig, but in the case they might exist it helps town out a lot if we follow the mechanics.

--
Ruru
I agree with the vig and hypo-cop strat, but the following (439 about skitter being able to TR ruru because of that post) makes me sad and wonder if this is to buy town credit. Ruru has come off a bit concerned about being TRd by skitter most the game which is :/ And at the same time is less concerned about trying to confirm skitter's alignment - just feel it is very one directional.

--
Sky
This has just been fluff and shit posting dunno, kinda was expecting more from (town) sky.

--
No comment or comments reserved for other players at the moment. Sorry post is a bit brief to do justice for the past 10 pages.

i like this post tbh, seems like effort was put forth

1. Don't CC any fake claims
2. Vote for who you want to (hypo) vig with hurt tags
3. Hypo cop results tomorrow

UNVOTE:
Waiting a bit

also like this post

Not a read list, but here is who I wouldn't mind if they were lynched/vigged today
Frank, HWS ... potentially Gamma and Sky as well

why gamma?

still like enigma, still see them as a

weaktown

Spoiler: frank

Post 416 (the reads post) from frank feels weird and rushed
he did mention it was rushed, but y rush it?

What standards are those so we can get a little more specific

I dunno. You're NOT using any.

Also,

IF SOMEONE CLAIMS A PR TODAY

DO NOT CC

Here's why: Generally speaking, doomed scum will fake a claim to out the most dangerous PR (if exists) according to the modifications (or lack thereof) they picked. If that PR isn't in the game then there will be no CC anyway. Now let me not go into too much details and go straight to the point:

- Claiming Vigilante when a Town Vig does exist = Just shoot the claimer. If they're BP we'll deal with it on D2, but there is always a chance the Vig will kill the scum w.o. the need to out themselves.

- Claiming Bodyguard: Chances are he BG will flip sometime during the game anyway, so we will know it was a fake claim. (Actually this one "may claim if they want to", since they're dying anyway, and most probably protecting the IC, so I'll leave it to your best judgement)

- Claiming Tracker: Obviously we want results from the Tracker, and the longer they live the more reliable their results will be, so no need to eat a bullet on N1 in exchange of lynching a scumster on D1. I hope you know what to do in this case though.

- Claiming Roleblocker: Also more valuable towards the game end. Best play is to block the fake claimer thus forcing scum to use someone else to do the kill AND making them lose their modification if they have one.

- Claiming Goon Cop: This role is intended to find us at least one scum if it could. If the fake claimer is a goon (and the only one) then you should claim, but how do we know that? Best play is to try and find others (if any) and if you get shot we will know whom to lynch anyway, but if you do get a guilty on someone else then that's when you claim and you give us TWO scums instead of just one.

If you disagree with any of this, feel free to do what you will, but

please

don't discuss alternative strategies. Discussing certain details may still give your role away w.o. even the need for scum to fake claim anything.

Thanks for your attention.

2/10

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Almost50

You can't yell don't talk spec after this lol.
Your vote stinks too

please explain

Still waiting on ru and a50 to talk to me

... and I'm still waiting for you to explain why you're nullreading me when you're calling the majority of my content scummy self-meta and not giving any further analysis

Your readslist has only three townreads in a game with twelve players

Two of them are "leans", and one of them is a "small lean"

so basically I think I'm in the "lynch later" pile but you don't think it's politically viable so you just called me null

Youre expecting waaayyyyy too much from an early D1 reads list.

Why do I need to have such binary reads right now anyway?

Is it that unusual that I have such a big null pile?

Yeah you had a lot of self meta, which is bad. Way more scum motivation than town.

yes actually
its a bit unusual you have such a big null pile when theres plenty of content to read and make reads based on
id like to see your updated readslist now before i lock you as scum

i think frank is a

strongscum

for now

Spoiler: creature

this is still the ic
plz be more active as well, either u or i is the n1 kill, please help out before u get killed

Spoiler: gamma

(old wall went thru #167)

i think scum were very likely to take:daytalk, joat and rolecop if they took three

I'd just do recruit mafia traitor, at most do daytalk too.

that just gives goon cop more guilties, along with greater chance of it being rolled

i agree

i dont like these posts
"ill explain y its wrong"
"haha jk i dont wanna out an alt"
please explain the reasoning and for future reference, if it involving outting an alt, dont say u have reasoning unless the alts been outed already

It makes sense to me
Don't make me have to give the explanation on why this is wrong > I don't want to out your alt
Does that not seem logical?
As for the actual logic I remember a game where someone joked about lynching the IC, A50's alt didn't comment on it as far as I remember, but it definitely was brought to everyone's attention for a little bit and the person who made the joke is someone who I definitely remember being town that game, so it's wrong for A50 to be acting like this here.

ur logic doesnt make sense to me, so please, enlighten me

Since I didn't want to have to out the alt, I didn't want to have to give the full reasoning.
DO YOU GET IT?

I don't think that one is? He can tell me whether it is, he should know which game I'm talking about. I'm going to drop a name from the game, he should be able to locate it with that.
Frederick A Campbell
PEdit: I gave a fairly clear explanation and you STILL didn't get it. Yeah I got miffed.

these two posts don't feel genuine. the frustration behind the two dont feel real to me
imo only scum would try to feign frustration, not town

Thing A

We're voting on vig shots

This is a good thing because:

• PRs can claim so they don't get shot (note: if you are a PR lined up to be vigged and either you're vig or feel there is a low chance of vig existing, you can and possibly should claim vt)
  
• Individuals are biased and have varying levels of competence and therefore tend to have worse reads than the majority on average
  
• More associative reads

Thing B

1. Please read this if you haven't

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/forums/th ... (by-Yates)

2. We're doing it starting tomorrow

And I'm policy lynching you if you don't, even if you're a cute baby monkey!

3. We're doing it right

How to pick cop/hypocop targets:

• Unlikely lynch
  
• Unlikely nightkill
  
• Useful if town
  
• Dangerous if scum
  
• Hard to read

DO NOT TRY TO LYNCH YOUR HYPO-INNO

GC can give false negatives but if you think someone is lockscum such that you will read them as scum PR or traitor despite a GC inno, you probably shouldn't be copping them which means you probably shouldn't be hypocopping them

Occasionally hypoclaiming "either I was roleblocked or I investigated a dead player" is also worthwhile as it could happen to the real GC (and scum don't know who was roleblocked anyway)

IDK about either of these
especially the latter because we may not even have cop
hypocop is used to get cop results out without the cop being outed, that way if they die by bad luck, town isn't screwed. I do at least like your awareness of roleblocking happening.

i mean, regardless, its worthwhile to do
even if we dont have a gc its still worth it in case we do
we wouldnt know if we have a gc until they flip

1. Don't CC any fake claims
2. Vote for who you want to (hypo) vig with hurt tags
3. Hypo cop results tomorrow

UNVOTE:
Waiting a bit

whoa, you're just running with ruru's plan?

yea, its a good plan

1. Don't CC any fake claims
2. Vote for who you want to (hypo) vig with hurt tags
3. Hypo cop results tomorrow

UNVOTE:
Waiting a bit

whoa, you're just running with ruru's plan?

Yeh? It benefits town?

well no one has responded to my reservations yet.

what reservations?

Your reservation about there not being a cop in the game? Well if there is no cop, then there is little benefit but if there is a cop it is helpful. Plus it forces scum to put something on the table and potential discussions about choice of targets, so thats is a benefit regardless of cop/no cop. I mean do you have any reservations about downsides?

Well if there is no cop, scum could deduce that from hypo results and determine that it's a safe fakeclaim. Plus homesite meta generally makes me uneasy about hypocop except when it's proven effective (like in cop 13Ps on MU)

this... this goes against what you said in 472 IMO
in 472 u said that u were hesitant on it but said nothing else about it
y bring it up now?

1. Don't CC any fake claims
2. Vote for who you want to (hypo) vig with hurt tags
3. Hypo cop results tomorrow

UNVOTE:
Waiting a bit

whoa, you're just running with ruru's plan?

It's actually best this way. If there a vig they could still do their own thing at their own risk though.

HURT: Antihero

P.S. I'm assuming Frank is today's lynch though. If not then HURT: Frank

I'd love to get Mathdino's opinion on this but A50 is a good option too
not sure who I'd want vigged rn

so are u tring a50 or no? earlier u were implying u werent (at least to me)

@GE

the slots that I'm most interested in right now (hws/sky/cjv) are all afk

well I guess I'm interested in this: how are you reading frank/hws/sky/antihero/enigma?

I'm actually pretty interested in your answer here

Frank I'm not sure on, I don't really get the hate
hws kinda feels like something is amiss
sky I think the inactivity is not really indicative of anything, but I don't really know what to make of their content yet
antihero I haven't seen a reason to be skeptical of yet
Enigma has felt lurky, I'd forgotten h was in the game until someone else mentioned him and he seems to have slipped back away.

do u have the rest of ur reads?

still feel like gamma is a

scumlean

at this point
would like to see some more content tho

Spoiler: skitter

Now what exactly is townie in any of Anti/Frank/MWNN's ISOs? The latter is a strong scum lean for the very fact you would null read him: NO CONTENT. I know he can do MUCH better than this if he wanted to.

uh ... he's been v/la since the agme started, why are you scumreading him for lack of content ....?

like how can you have somebody as a strong scumlean for lack of content when the game started 3 days ago and they've been gone the whole time

i can understand a nullread or a lack of a townread but i don't understand a scumread here

im not sure on a50
im currently scumleaning him

i find the scumreading the vla player

the scummiest out of all of them tho
also @a50, only use latter for two people

yeah i think this is kinda scummy too

i agree with the last two posts

{creature, myself}
{skitter}
{ruru, enigma}
{mwnn, hws, sky, anti} - null
{frank, gamma}
{almost}
{none}
color code:

i have kinda similar reads to you except i think ruru is still ~nullscum and a50 i had as pretty hard town earlier but this mwnn development is making me question that

also anti is maybe nulltown? not sure yet

mostly agree with those early reads, and still kinda do

this is a dumb thing to pick a fight about, no offense

all it does is make me wonder if this is an actual thing or if you made it up

agree

the south end of vex's reads list is good

ruru seems town to me too. skitter is competent and makes not-awful posts and i hope she's town but i still haven't gotten a good thing to get a grip on to really TOWNREAD her

enigma's posting is acceptable but i'm not really townreading him at all...?

enigma was kinda *present* during a lot of the discussions and his posting there feels kinda natural and game-solving-y if that makes sense

like his posts just sort of feel like coming from a town mindset; like it's possible that they're faked but idk they just kinda feel townie and kinda what i'd expect town to be thinking in those places. like it's no one thing i can point to just like overall tone + timing of posts

i'm actually beginning ot become concerned about ruru - i don't really feel like she feels like town!her right now

why not?

Getting yourself lynched d1 is hardly optimal traitor play, especially not if you're a50 and have a strong scumgame

We should also just agree to never vig or gc jestery players (sky, a50) and use the lynch on them instead if they're widely scumread

this post feels wrong and i need to think about why

i agree that it feels wrong, but my reasoning is that vigs should shoot whoever they scumread
jestery slots are easy shots because regardless of flip they werent really helping out

it occurs to me that gamma is an easy mislynch

it also occurs to me that if a50 is town he's made himself very easy to push by scum

how so to both?

vig pl-worthy players

You're talking about pling a slot that's hours from being force replaced that's completely different from nm.

yes, i think an empty slot is a good vig shot; until/unless the slot produces content i think that's one of the best ways a vig slot can be expended

i agree on this
vig shots should be used on jestery slots or generally scummy slots

like i almost feel like you're trying to pick a fight with me or something? or that we're talking past each other?

You're passive-aggressively shading everything I do and half of your questions don't even feel like you're trying to sort me in good faith

Like what do you expect me to do in this situation?

i feel like this is what you're doing to me

i feel like you're trying to pick a fight or find something you can start an argument over

how so? im not really getting that vibe from it

skitter is still a pretty solid

townread

imo
still like her posting and her logic so far
still seems pro-town to me

Spoiler: vex

this is myself
ik im

town

Spoiler: tl;dr

{creature, myself}

{skitter}

{ruru, enigma}

{almost, ceejay, hws, anti}

- null

{gamma}

{frank, sky}

{none}

color code:

confirmed/lock town

,

strong town

,

weak town

,

null

,

weak scum

,

strong scum

,

confirmed/lock scum

weak - still unsure about alignment
strong - very certain about what they are

with the exception of a50, all my null reads are lurkers

[Vex Vience]

plz be more active as well, either u or i is the n1 kill, please help out before u get killed

Maybe I survive tonight if it feels like I won't be helpful.

hnrgggg
ur modconfirmed town
ur hurting us more than ur helping by following that logic
regardless if ur helpful or not, ur a viable nk option
u can lead town which being modconfirmed town, is a massive threat to scum
in this game, the ic wasnt that helpful yet they still got nkd n1
what makes u think that wont happen here regardless?

ur likely to get nkd because ur the ic
im likely to get nkd because im being really productive and helpful towards town
certainly out of the two of us whoever isnt nkd gets nkd the next night, unless bg flips in which case its debatable who gets nkd (but most likely ur the nk target regardless)

if u die and i live instead, i know im the most likely nk target regardless if im actually being helpful or not. id rather be extremely helpful on my presumed last day rather than just lurk out and use the shoddy logic of "maybe if im not helpful ill be spared" and hope to god that mafia just are entirely stupid and decide to leave me alive for whatever reason
and as well, if u die, i have to make my final pushes for gamesolving, clarifying everything, and ensure i die with town being in a great spot, regardless of the two of us being killed. i cant lurk out and hope mafia ignore me at that point. i have to play as if i

know i will

get shot that night with nothing being able to prevent the kill from happening

on the flip side, if somehow mafia decide to shoot me instead, and not u, u

know for a fact

ur the nk target. why the hell wouldnt mafia shoot u at that point? ur the ic, ur modconfirmed town. theres no question about that, ur dying regardless of whoever flips even if we hang mafia today and tomorrow, ur dying.
if i die, u

need

to be really productive and helpful in that case bc the logic of "maybe if im not helpful ill be spared" isnt gonna save u at that point.
u know that if i die n1, u need to push to gamesolve, clarify everything and try to ensure u die with town being in a great spot without the two of us, like i would do if u die n1

if bg dies n1 however and were both alive, we both need to act as if one of us got nkd
theres no question about it
if bg gets shot protecting one of us, we both know tonight is prolly our last day alive and we need to be really productive in that case and help setup the other one for tomorrow to help lead town

ic with the possibility of no protective roles needs to

always

act as if they

know they will

get nkd that night and try to do as much gamesolving before eod

[Vex Vience]

Vex am I correct in stating you are voting me because I have alot of nulls?

that and because ur reads are weak, as well as other reasons
id have to look at more detailed, posting the "creature ur logic is bad" post took all the time i had atm

[Vex Vience]

no, but you just justified my own read.

in ur reads post as well, u said:

Open to answer any questions

for a couple of hours

.

only later to say to me:

Vex for what it's worth these reads

[the ones im referring to]

are pretty rushed, and I gave a disclaimer with the vex read. But i would like to see why you're convinced he's town

but why am i calling attention to that u might be asking?

because if u were available for a couple of hours, u could have used that time to make better, non-rushed reads, yet u didnt, u chose to use that time to answer questions—something that seems like ur actually putting forth effort, but in actuality, ur not really.

think about it: why would town!frank make rushed reads knowing he may be hung if he doesnt, much less say that he has a "couple of hours" to answer questions?
if he was forced to post reads to avoid a lynch, wouldnt he wanna rectify them later when he had more time?
but at the same time: u said u had a couple of hours to answer questions, so why wouldnt u say that u were working on the reads and that u'll post them in a couple of hours, not that ull answer questions for a couple of hours?
unless, ofc, ur scum. u didnt really wanna do reads, but knew u had to, to avoid getting hung, so u half-assed it.

think about it.

u, urself screwed urself over by saying those reads were rushed, but yet u had a couple of hours to answer questions.
last i checked, if people are happy with ur lynch because u arent posting content, ud focus more time on actually making the reads, not trying to look productive by posting rushed reads, and then saying that u had a couple of hours to answer questions.

had u not said that those reads were rushed, id probably have dismissed it, yet by the fact u said they were rushed, it proves to me

u are scum.

also, as for the wall towards creature:
i think town would find that a very reasonably townie post to make, if not, at least they would

follow

the same thought-process and get what im going for
town wants the ic to be active and to participate, scum dont want that
why do town want the ic to be active?

because they are confirmed town. they are someone they know 100% they can trust and its confirmed they are not trying to hurt the town

why dont scum want the ic to be active?

because of the exact same reason—the ic is someone town can trust, and they pose a massive threat to themselves because town will sheep the ic if they have a case on someone

by saying "oh well making a wall towards the ic but not replying to me is anti-town", it proves u are not town, unless ur trying to

hurt

the town, (implying ur mafia).
i cant see town!frank making that "ur anti-town for arguing with the ic", but i can certainly see scum!frank make that post to try to make it seem like ur actively trying to scumhunt, when in actuality, ur not.
once again, this proves to me,

u are scum

.

those are my two biggest points against u rn
both of which, u cant really explain away
the only way to clear it up, is with ur flip, unless, u have some absolutely godtier reads ready for us

we hang frank today, end of story.
if anyone wants to convince me frank isnt scum with this in mind, please, be my guest.

if frank isnt hung today, and there is a vig, shoot frank

u happy with ur wall now frank?

[Vex Vience]

Pppagetop!

motherfucker, i wanted to take this after posting a wall
smh

Ninja'ed! c:

[Vex Vience]

no, but you just justified my own read.

in ur reads post as well, u said:

Open to answer any questions

for a couple of hours

.

only later to say to me:

Vex for what it's worth these reads

[the ones im referring to]

are pretty rushed, and I gave a disclaimer with the vex read. But i would like to see why you're convinced he's town

but why am i calling attention to that u might be asking?

because if u were available for a couple of hours, u could have used that time to make better, non-rushed reads, yet u didnt, u chose to use that time to answer question

This is the worst reason I've ever seen.

PLUS WHY WOULD TOWN IGNORE THIS 1 PIECE OF VITAL INFO -

Sorry for sloppy format, I just copied and pasted some notes I wrote while going over said ISO's.

Tried to make it pretty and failed, accidentally deleted most of the post

. So here ya go.

Open to answer any questions for a couple of hours.

I phone post most of the time. I gave a basic read least after fucking up my post. Offered to talk about these basic reads in more detail, as I had a few hours before bed. In these few hours before bed, I have several things going on. I cant conjure the motivation to retype a WHOLE READS LIST at that point.

Does town have motivation to take this utterly

horrible

read, WHILE AT THE SAME TIME ignore the context? Im not sure here...

At this point in the game Im going to call it Lazy scum hunting (kind of understandable- there is nothing else really going on).

yes, but if u did, why not undo it?
phones have an undo feature as well, so u cant get away with the argument of "i couldnt undo", much less, how do u "accidentally" delete most of the post unless u were really trying to, or ur phone lagged

that

badly?

[Vex Vience]

i also didnt ignore that, i found it irrelevant
the fact that u fucked up posting it doesnt negate the fact u had a couple of hours to retype it or just simply post "i fucked up my readslist, will post tomorrow when im near a computer"

[Vex Vience]

i mean, what else is there apart from apathy?

[Vex Vience]

or u just lying? please, tell me, im not seeing it

[Vex Vience]

i also didnt ignore that, i found it irrelevant
the fact that u fucked up posting it doesnt negate the fact u had a couple of hours to retype it or just simply post "i fucked up my readslist, will post tomorrow when im near a computer"

If you think im going to spend the rest of a night with my face in my phone, youre wrong. Checking it every so often? Sure

Again this is the worst read ive ever seen

then why not say that u fucked up reads, youll post them when u have access to a computer tomorrow?

[Vex Vience]

also, idfk what ur thinking, but, ur one of my scumreads, why

wouldn't

i push u for more info when i can?
either way, it gives me more info on ur alignment
judging by the fact ur trying to deflect, not refute, make me think ur scum still

[Vex Vience]

i also didnt ignore that, i found it irrelevant
the fact that u fucked up posting it doesnt negate the fact u had a couple of hours to retype it or just simply post "i fucked up my readslist, will post tomorrow when im near a computer"

If you think im going to spend the rest of a night with my face in my phone, youre wrong. Checking it every so often? Sure

Again this is the worst read ive ever seen

then why not say that u fucked up reads, youll post them when u have access to a computer tomorrow?

Why are you assuming I would have access to a computer? Thats not the point I know.

I posted what I could, when I could. sucks for you that this is what your scum read on me is based on

ok, then why not say "i fucked up, i can do it tomorrow" or something like that?

i also didnt ignore that, i found it irrelevant
the fact that u fucked up posting it doesnt negate the fact u had a couple of hours to retype it or just simply post "i fucked up my readslist, will post tomorrow when im near a computer"

If you think im going to spend the rest of a night with my face in my phone, youre wrong. Checking it every so often? Sure

Again this is the worst read ive ever seen

u can literally just do what i said earlier, and say u fucked up, ull do it tomorrow

also, idfk what ur thinking, but, ur one of my scumreads, why

wouldn't

i push u for more info when i can?
either way, it gives me more info on ur alignment
judging by the fact ur trying to deflect, not refute, make me think ur scum still

Jesus H Christ you are saying im deflecting on a phone error?

not only that, but a bit of the "ill check my phone occasionally" type thing

plz be more active as well, either u or i is the n1 kill, please help out before u get killed

Maybe I survive tonight if it feels like I won't be helpful.

eh i kinda think you should try to be helpful now becuase you don't know if you'll be alive tonight

^

plz be more active as well, either u or i is the n1 kill, please help out before u get killed

Maybe I survive tonight if it feels like I won't be helpful.

if anyone was doubting vex was town this post should dispel those doubts imo

for which side? me being town or scum?

Compare all that effort to his scum hunting

ur one to talk
i dont really see any scumhunting efforts from u
my scumhunting comes from interactions, pressure and reads
meanwhile... what have u done to try to further ur reads?

no, but you just justified my own read.

in ur reads post as well, u said:

Open to answer any questions

for a couple of hours

.

only later to say to me:

Vex for what it's worth these reads

[the ones im referring to]

are pretty rushed, and I gave a disclaimer with the vex read. But i would like to see why you're convinced he's town

but why am i calling attention to that u might be asking?

because if u were available for a couple of hours, u could have used that time to make better, non-rushed reads, yet u didnt, u chose to use that time to answer question

This is the worst reason I've ever seen.

PLUS WHY WOULD TOWN IGNORE THIS 1 PIECE OF VITAL INFO -

Sorry for sloppy format, I just copied and pasted some notes I wrote while going over said ISO's.

Tried to make it pretty and failed, accidentally deleted most of the post

. So here ya go.

Open to answer any questions for a couple of hours.

I phone post most of the time. I gave a basic read least after fucking up my post. Offered to talk about these basic reads in more detail, as I had a few hours before bed. In these few hours before bed, I have several things going on. I cant conjure the motivation to retype a WHOLE READS LIST at that point.

Does town have motivation to take this utterly

horrible

read, WHILE AT THE SAME TIME ignore the context? Im not sure here...

At this point in the game Im going to call it Lazy scum hunting (kind of understandable- there is nothing else really going on).

the couple-of-hours thing doesn't bother me super much tbh, especially given phone-posting etc

i kinda thought the most important part of 649 was

by saying "oh well making a wall towards the ic but not replying to me is anti-town", it proves u are not town, unless ur trying to hurt the town, (implying ur mafia).
i cant see town!frank making that "ur anti-town for arguing with the ic", but i can certainly see scum!frank make that post to try to make it seem like ur actively trying to scumhunt, when in actuality, ur not.
once again, this proves to me, u are scum.

this part

like i don't know why asking the ic to be more active in a game where we don't know if we have protectives is anti-town, and i think vex's thought process there was very townie and relatable

i'm a little more concerned that you found his wall towards creature to be anti-town, and that when vex made his second-wall, the one directed at you that talked about the rushed reads-list thing and the creature-wall thing and your reaction to it, you decided to focus on the rushed-reads-list and not your reaction to the creature wall which i think is more important/scummier

i agree with skitter, i was about to say "lets drop this for a moment, so we arent running in circles the whole time and focus on my other argument"
mindreading at its finest

i also find the "i had time to redo reads but didnt" genuinely scummy

Would I be wrong in saying its anti town to spend your energy on arguing with the I.C?

why do you think this is anti-town?

Compare all that effort to his scum hunting

He isnt my biggest scum read. More null scum based of his interactions with me mostly

i think he's put a lot of effort into scumhunting?

wrt to his read on you do you think he:

a) is picking something stupid to force a fight over to scumread you and justify the read

b) genunitely believes the rushed-reads thing is scummy

c) other

(hint: answer b is the correct answer)

pedit: rip antihero

[Vex Vience]

plz be more active as well, either u or i is the n1 kill, please help out before u get killed

Maybe I survive tonight if it feels like I won't be helpful.

if anyone was doubting vex was town this post should dispel those doubts imo

Oh jeez i think the opposite

^^^^ example of anti-mind-melding

like that post just exudes towniness imo

also is this sarcasm skitter?

[Vex Vience]

@skit
Im making the point that its not very town to choose to argue with an I C over trying to push his scum pick. He took priority in something of less importance. Im not saying he was wrong in anything he said to him

um... because that has higher priority to me
why wouldnt the same be true for u if ur town to have the ic participating in the game v pushing a scumread?

[Vex Vience]

also, its not an argument if the other side doesnt reply

[Vex Vience]

also, i think creature would agree with me that he should be more active knowing that hes the most likely nk
also meaning its not an argument

[Vex Vience]

also, y is pushing scumread more important than trying to get ic to participate to u?

[Vex Vience]

@skit
Im making the point that its not very town to choose to argue with an I C over trying to push his scum pick. He took priority in something of less importance. Im not saying he was wrong in anything he said to him

plus further refuting this point:
i can push my scumread while im alive, (which'll most likely be till n2).
i cant get the ic to be more active if they're dead, (which'll most likely be n1)
ergo, getting ic to be more active before eod > pushing scumread

if we have a bg flip d2, thats an entirely different story, but since bg isnt confirmed to be in play, id rather get ic to be active

while they still can

[Vex Vience]

I just need the right motivation.

and what motivation is that?

posting the "creature ur logic is bad" post took all the time i had atm

geez lol

i wanted to make sure my thoughts were clear, plus i wrote that during precalc when i shouldve been paying attention so... yay me ig

plz be more active as well, either u or i is the n1 kill, please help out before u get killed

Maybe I survive tonight if it feels like I won't be helpful.

if anyone was doubting vex was town this post should dispel those doubts imo

Sure, putting a lot of effort to show why I'm being the bad guy rn...

wdym?
im not trying to say ur the bad guy here, im just saying that i dont really find it all that helpful to have the ic lurk out of the game especially when u or i am the most likely nk tonight

Anyone townreads Skygazer?

ehhhhhhh no
are u?

@skit
Im making the point that its not very town to choose to argue with an I C over trying to push his scum pick.

He took priority in something of less importance.

Im not saying he was wrong in anything he said to him

ok, eli5 why you think this is antitown

like i can kinda see the problem with the bolded if we were talking about a player who popped in once every two days and wasn't an active poster - this isn't vex though; he's a fairly active poster; i don't think that just because he prioritized the creature wall meant that he wasn't going to get around to talking to you or something; i think he just meant that's all he had time for at that moment but that he was going to get to your stuff later when he had a chance

basically idon't understand why that's anti-town for him to write about that first

skitters point of how much time i had at that post is right
i had plans to get to writing ur wall later frank
i wrote creatures wall during precalc and even tho i have lunch right after it, i had other things to do during lunch, (namely school)
as for my priorities again, getting the ic to participate is much more useful (and would hold higher priority in towns eyes) rather than pushing a scumread

if there is no guaranteed protective role

.
i cant tell the dead ic to be more active, but i can push my scumread regardless if the ic is dead or not

[Vex Vience]

BuJaber replaces Antihero. Welcome!

welcome
hopefully we start seeing an increase in player activity in general

[Vex Vience]

Oh yeah.. out of curiosity.. would you say you have BoP with this playerbase?

Hmmmm.. to an extent maybe. I don't believe I've plated Frank or Vex before though.

made at risk of outing my alt before end of game, (if u guess who i am before then, ill probably out):
u certainly have played with my main before at some point
and u certainly have been in a few games ive modded

i wouldnt say that u certainly have BoP over me considering how radically different my playstyle has been under this account versus my normal town/scum meta

[Vex Vience]

i will admit however, me trying to change overarching meta is just me trying to distance myself from my main (even though these types of posts hint towards who my main is)

also, @monkey-boye
ur tr on sky is still standing after she replied to the prod with "Oh no!" and nothing else?

[Vex Vience]

pageget

[Vex Vience]

im currently sring sky only because of low activity + posts made are mostly fluff
i can see where ur coming from with the whole "im watching avatar" thing, however, one small event doesnt clear the bigger things imo

[Vex Vience]

so am i but... i made this alt ultimately to prove to myself i am a good fm player
nothing more
ill also say: ik ive made one post so far that is a dead giveaway to my main
also, if u call me by my main, ill reply to it

if i really was trying to make sure i wouldnt accidentally out myself, i wouldnt have brought it up, y'know?

[Vex Vience]

as for sky, id like to see more activity from her slot, but if we dont before eod, and we have a vigi, shes the best shot imo
i personally found the "Oh no!" prod reply as slightly scummy only because it feels so hollow
it just feels like it was made

just

to get off the prodtimer
i dont like the post in general

[Vex Vience]

i personally found the "Oh no!" prod reply as slightly scummy only because it feels so hollow
it just feels like it was made just to get off the prodtimer

I see. Well, that wasn't my impression when I first read that post, but now I see your point.
To me it felt more like "Oh no.. not this one too" or "Oh no.. I've got so much to do and things are going out of hand".. y'know.. that kind of thing when feel like you can't keep us with so many tasks (not necessarily just games).

Also I dunno.. Mods I'm sure I played more than one game under are skullduggery (that's definitely not you), Mastina (also not applicable), Varsoon (almost wrote that off but ...), dramonic, KuroiXHF (been a long time since I saw him on MS at all) and Fraggernaut. Did I miss someone I played under more than once? GiF maybe?? You've got be one of those names if I did play in your games more than once.

yea, i saw skys post not as what you said, but just getting off prodtimer.

also, for main, i looked back through your alts, uve only played in one game of mine, (that was under AP). i thought u had played in another game i had modded unless ur hiding another alt on me. that one is just on me then
i did see that under all ur alts + main, uve played at least 4 games with me between ur main and jjd.

[Vex Vience]

also, getting to the point of sky being in too many games, my argument is why wouldnt sky just say that then?
instead of posting something that sounds so hollow and empty ("oh no!") why wouldnt she just say "prodge, ive been busy"?

thats the part that doesnt line up with me
also agree on skitters point of "if townies would mention pagegets, why is buj finding it scummy"
ill reserve further judgement on buj until he posts some more content tho

[Vex Vience]

In those 5 pages the number of pagetops, posts about pagetops, jokes about pagetops, and posts about setup make up an awfully large portion of his total posts.

I really don't like pagetop grabbing.. I know many townies do it but it doesn't help at all and sometimes people compete over them which helps artificially boost post and page counts. It's a bit of a personal bias of mine.

I also default scumread this but do you think it's AI for enigma?

why do you think it would be ai?
i only see enigma doing it in this game as well

Okay, I'm feeling well

Bring me the challenge

of?

[Vex Vience]

also, for main, i looked back through your alts, uve only played in one game of mine, (that was under AP). i thought u had played in another game i had modded unless ur hiding another alt on me. that one is just on me then

I figured it out i think; ive only seen the wall o' reads like that once before but I didnt think it was you given that the town and overall posting style are drastically different; would never have guessed that tbh

:3

im gonna assume a few things here:
i'm assuming you're talking about MD's jungle republic, namely, post 229, made by Korina when you say "the wall o' reads", which would mean, you're thinking my main is Korina.

which, yea, you're right on that. i am korina.
i just needed the right motivation to actually sit down and play knowing i wont get instantly pl'd just for being in the game.
the wonders of not pling me are amazing because you get towngames like this from me where i put forth serious amounts of effort into gamesolving.

anyways, yea, i'm korina. my reads list was the post i was thinking would certainly give me away, and to a lesser degree, calling a50 "monkey-boye", (something in my sig, plus only 7 other posts, (excluding this one) have the word "boye" in them.)

im an amazing player when i have motivation to play well.

[Vex Vience]

wall coming with my full case on sky later tonight

pedit: that was the goal monkey boye, try to make sure people dont realize its me until i said it was me.

[Vex Vience]

wall coming with my full case on sky later tonight

pedit: that was the goal monkey boye, try to make sure people dont realize its me until i said it was me.

so, one of the major reasons why i was hesitant on posting this case in the first place is because i was drawing from my own scum-meta, which meant i had to out myself first. you guys can see why i would be kinda hesitating on doing that, mainly since im playing under an alt.
so, whats my case on sky and why does it involve my meta?

a lot of it comes from skys posting, namely elsewhere on the forums. (im also getting close to the "dont talk about on-going games" rule with this post)
looking through skys posts, ive noticed a lot more posts in other games, but not in this one. that means a lot to me.
what does that mean?

it means sky is avoiding this game to some degree.

what motivation does town really have to try to avoid a game they're in? barely any, if town even does.
what motivation does scum really have to try to avoid a game they're in? a lot of motivation actually.

this is where my own self-meta comes into play here: as scum, i tend to stay quiet and try to lurk as much as possible only because it helps minimize the chances of me scumslipping and plus i'm always waiting for something i can turn around on the others to frame them. it also feels very natural for me to lurk as scum, versus town which just feels like "why am i even in this game rn" if i try to lurk out

i see the same logic here as to why sky would put forth more posts in other games but not so much in this game.
now, before anyone tries to say "what if sky is demotivated?", sky could always replace-out if that was the case. yet, i havent seen any requests to replace-out from sky yet.

because sky is lurking so much in this game, yet is active in other games, (making post 620 a bold-faced lie), it really makes me believe that sky is intentionally trying to lurk the entire game as sort of a "i dont know how to play this role" type thing in a hope to try to not get lynched.
i forgot who said the same thing, presuming that sky was the traitor, but whoever did, yea, that's the point i'm going at with this. i think sky is certainly scum and doesn't know how to play traitor.

sky has a total of twenty posts. none of them feel like they have anything to contribute. they all feel like (to me at least) they all are just rehashing the same things we already know. a lot of her posts feel hollow. they dont have anything to them, its just an empty shell. nothing more. now, could it be that sky is just pulling a nm here and just being a jester? yes, but that means sky should get hung or vig'd at some point sooner rather than later.

the "im watching avatar" post is the one that pings me the most, (followed by her reads, which (i forgot who said it but), feel really

really

safe imo.) she only said she was watching avatar in here, coupled with the fact shes said that she'll do things, but in actuality she never has, (135), makes her slot feel incredibly weird to me. ik based on her activity in other games, she can do better than what she currently is doing, but yet, seemingly is actively refusing to do better, making her slot feel very very weird to me.

i dont see sky really putting any effort into gamesolving. posts 288 and 289 also feel really really weird with that in mind. we already know that Creature is the ic, and if she had a group of people (or is pro-town), why

wouldn't

she list another name that wasn't creature, unless shes scum and didnt have them ready and was stalling for time?

with all of this being said, i think {frank, sky} are scum. we hang frank today, shoot sky tonight (if we have a vig), if not, we can hang her tomorrow

[Vex Vience]

we dont have confirmed vig, and frank is scummier than sky rn
assuming sky is traitor, she cant really do a whole lot of damage on her own rn, so why would we waste the day hanging someone who cant really do a whole lot?

wanna help?

with?

[Vex Vience]

yea, give me a bit to look at them creature + type up my replies

[Vex Vience]

we dont have confirmed vig, and frank is scummier than sky rn
assuming sky is traitor, she cant really do a whole lot of damage on her own rn, so why would we waste the day hanging someone who cant really do a whole lot?

Neither can frank

I don't see why the lynch order matters so much unless you have associatives between them

frank is scummier than sky imo
rather lynch the scummier one v possible traitor

[Vex Vience]

i mean, for d1, what better information do we really have to work off of apart from hanging the scummiest one?
i agree, hanging the scummiest one each day isnt very optimal, but we dont know if sky is traitor.
i think sky is certainly scum, im not sure if shes traitor, but it would make sense on this if she is

my major thing for wanting frank lynch over sky lynch is that if we hang sky (the presumed traitor), we still have two groupscum left alive.
if we hang frank (the presumed groupscum member), we have a presumed traitor, and a groupscum still alive.
id much rather lose a potential vig kill n1 to ensure we get a vig kill n2 versus having two groupscum alive, and getting no vig kill n1/2 if that makes sense

[Vex Vience]

i feel that both frank and sky are certainly scum here
i think that out of {frank, sky} that frank poses the bigger threat than sky
i also think that skys replaceout was tactical
ive done it before

i believe frank is groupscum and that sky is traitor
id rather kill groupscum v traitor
if we hang traitor, we have two groupscum able to talk
if we hang groupscum, we have traitor and groupscum, with only one knowing who the other is, and with no way of talking
whats wrong with that?

pedit:
@ruru
vig shoots traitor n1, they assume they were rbd or hit bp/traitor.
n2, they shoot again. traitor dies at this point, meaning vig gets kill off n2.
the same thing is true if we substitute this with bp, except theres no vig kill n2.

ppedit:
frank care to explain?

[Vex Vience]

the other thing if we substitute traitor with bp, n2 we have two groupscum still alive, but instead of scum being down any numbers, were down the numbers instead because instead of n2 trade, (me for traitor), we just have me dying
do you see my point now ruru?

imo its much better to try to kill groupscum d1/2, and try to nk traitor

[Vex Vience]

i also think that skys replaceout was tactical

Check Ban/Restrictions Announcement thread postgame then.

why, is that against the rules?

:3

im gonna assume a few things here:
i'm assuming you're talking about MD's jungle republic, namely, post 229, made by Korina when you say "the wall o' reads", which would mean, you're thinking my main is Korina.

which, yea, you're right on that. i am korina.
i just needed the right motivation to actually sit down and play knowing i wont get instantly pl'd just for being in the game.
the wonders of not pling me are amazing because you get towngames like this from me where i put forth serious amounts of effort into gamesolving.

yeah pretty much; the first wall o' reads reminded me of the korina post but i dismissed it; than you said you modded a game ap played and from there it was pretty easy to figure out

if you want thoughts on what i think about your alt in comparison to your main lmk

yea, i wouldnt mind it when its convent to us.
dont really wanna interrupt the currently flow of the game

[Vex Vience]

skitter what do you think of ceejay?

has anyone else played with him before?

i modded donner party which had ceejay in it.
otherwise, afaik, ive never played with ceejay

only people ive played with was skitter, a50, buj, and im pretty sure gamma at some point
ive modded games (or am modding games) with almost, frank, and gamma

as for the list, i need to post it later today, (~7hrs) as well as think about it a bit more deeply

ok idk any of u but i did some theorizing pregame
mafia likely took two modifiers pregame, joat and daytalk meaning we have at most 4 townprs.

vex is probably town thru sheer post count (my eyes are bleeding) but if he is scum the scumteam stinks

too much conviction in an insanely bad choice of powers

have... have you even read any of my more recent posts...? namely the walls...?

Ohmygod of course you're here

Ruru yes I thought a51 could be bp after the debacle

-town50 doesn't gain anything or am I wrong there? Only a vig bullet if present?
-scum50 would use it as wifom material.

Correct or nah
I'll try and read up

can you eli5 this post for me?
im not sure what you're getting at entirely

[Vex Vience]

I know a vig shot would be wasted.

Do you not understand the post or is it the reasoning that you need ELI5'd?

both

also, working on case on {hws, monkey-boye, ruru, ceejay and ge} rn.

I need something

There are no new games starting.

i would say go join bad cop, insane cop, but i just pulled it and replaced it with GIM

[Vex Vience]

@vex ye that was my thought too; remind me after the game then

will do

okay, I see what you mean about groupscum being a more valuable kill (I'm not sure yet if I agree) but even if that's the case we can lynch sky d2 and vig someone else

shooting someone you think is traitor is like 100% wrong.

i mean, odds are we can find another mafia sure, but the bigger chance is that we kill off town
id rather take the safe vig shot, and see if sky dies

I would vig enigma lmao but seriously.

Can post more replies when off of work tomorrow.

why enigma?

@vex ye that was my thought too; remind me after the game then

I don't think Sky's replace out was actually tactical.

why not?

ok can you explain why B would tip the read down to nullscum than?

He isnt my biggest scum read. More null scum based of his interactions with me mostly

basically i was kinda confused how immediately after the rushed readslist thing you had him as nullscum? like in that scenario i think i would view someone as either:

-> scum who was making someone up to mislynch me

-> townie who was very convinced but very wrong

like i feel like i would have a strong opinion either way; i don't really understand how that argument would make you scumread someone enough to drop the townread but not enough to fully scumread them? like it's a weird middle-ground that doesn't fully make sense to me

(hints: its still the second option)

ok can you explain why B would tip the read down to nullscum than?

He isnt my biggest scum read. More null scum based of his interactions with me mostly

basically i was kinda confused how immediately after the rushed readslist thing you had him as nullscum? like in that scenario i think i would view someone as either:

-> scum who was making someone up to mislynch me

-> townie who was very convinced but very wrong

like i feel like i would have a strong opinion either way; i don't really understand how that argument would make you scumread someone enough to drop the townread but not enough to fully scumread them? like it's a weird middle-ground that doesn't fully make sense to me

Tried to be open minded, so his reasons weren't bad at first. Like he was kinda scummy in my eyes because I know im town, but the fact my phone error is what he wanted to stick with and push so hard just looks very scummy in the end.

you also still havent really explained why the creature wall post is anti-town, nor given me really any reasons to tr you

I WAS NOT INFORMED HOW LONG THIS IS

who's gonna give me a tl;dr version?

tl;dr

Spoiler:

creature is confirmed town
im basically confirmed town
monkey-boye claimed bp and said it was reaction-testing
frank is scum
you replaced into a scummy slot that we wanna vig
a lot of players have been lurking
im also an alt of korina

that about sums it up

pedit: im still fairly certain frank is scum
we need to hang someone by eod regardless
rather have it be someone we all scumread

[Vex Vience]

Guess this is now my only game.

My HP is like at 1.

wdym?

Did scum set their status to invisible?

no, just getting burnt out because d1 is dragging on so long rn

u, urself screwed urself over by saying those reads were rushed, but yet u had a couple of hours to answer questions.
last i checked, if people are happy with ur lynch because u arent posting content, ud focus more time on actually making the reads, not trying to look productive by posting rushed reads, and then saying that u had a couple of hours to answer questions.

had u not said that those reads were rushed, id probably have dismissed it, yet by the fact u said they were rushed, it proves to me u are scum.

this makes sense to me

Youre both bad then

or ur bad, and ur trying to accuse us of being bad

Going to rehash some reads tonight

its tonight, where are they?

this game feels like a loss.

wdym?

the worst replaces Skygazer. Quack!

Had tw been here from the start I would have tunneled him with vengeance!

Hello, cute furry yellow .. SERIAL KILLER!

hi yes this is dog
how may dog help?
oh, wait, you were talking about tw?


also, starting to get a bit burnt out with d1 dragging on this long

[Vex Vience]

also i just realized i misread creatures post
fml

[Vex Vience]

also sniped this ofrhz

[Vex Vience]

@creature
ill actually post what i think about {hws, monkey-boye, ruru, ceejay, gamma} tomorrow (for real)
getting burnt out rn because d1 is stretching on
also im really tired rn and i shouldnt post while half-awake
if i cant count fully awake, i dont wanna imagine me counting half-awake

probably somehow hammer at l-2

[Vex Vience]

what makes you think frank is definitely scum and not just badtown

a lot of reasons
i can post reasoning tomorrow if you'd like

[Vex Vience]

waiting on vc to vote
we all know im really bad at counting + rather not cut day early while we have questions still

[Vex Vience]

VOTE: Ceejay
HURT: Frank

ok, ready to end the day

[Vex Vience]

why unvote?

[Vex Vience]

ah, my thought process is that we could safely leave ceejay at l-1.
town wouldnt be able to hammer this and get away with it, only because the votecount was already posted
scum wouldnt be able to hammer because, well, they'd get auto-hung/auto-vig'd if they quickhammered this.

[Vex Vience]

Your post feels like an invite for hammer.

if it is, then that wasnt my intention.
im starting to get burnt out from d1 dragging on this long like ive said.

[Vex Vience]

@creature

Spoiler: hws

like ive been saying on hws, i cant really read him
he doesnt have a whole lot of content for me to judge
im not for meta-arguments, (barring the case on sky, which was more applying my logic to why i lurk as scum rather than me arguing from meta).

looking at his posts in general, theres not a lot to go off of
im kinda liking some of his posts, but most of them are revolving around me from what i can see

rn, hes still hardnull for me, only because theres still not a lot for me to read and get a handle on

Spoiler: monkey-boye

(hope you dont mind me calling you monkey-boye, monkey-boye :p)

looking at a50s iso, and the game i modded with him, and md's game, i actually kinda lean more towards his townplay rather than his scumplay

while i do still agree, him claiming mafia bp is scummy (as well as the selfvote), i feel like he's more town than scum.
his posts seem directed towards gamesolving and the ap/a50 posting tone seems more towards town in this game IMO

Spoiler: ruru

theres a few posts from ruru that ping me here and there
the early part of her iso feels fine, its just the parts of the later iso feel off...

okay, I see what you mean about groupscum being a more valuable kill (I'm not sure yet if I agree) but even if that's the case we can lynch sky d2 and vig someone else

shooting someone you think is traitor is like 100% wrong.

this is one that feels off to me, not because of burnout, but just because it doesnt seem right
killing off groupscum is much better to do, because if they didnt recruit traitor, theres two disconnected mafia

this game feels like a loss.

this post im not sure what to make of. it feels weird to me to just say this

what makes you think frank is definitely scum and not just badtown

again, this post just feels off, why wouldnt ruru bring this up earlier, why only bring it up now?

That was supposed to be a sorting question but since ~everyone apparently has this misconception I'm not going to scumread you for it:

if we suspect someone of being bp, it should

always

be resolved with a lynch and not a vig shot

the vig shot doesn't have any investigative utility because if someone is town they're just going to die.

also, vig shot does have investigative utility:
player doesnt die: bp / traitor, meaning 100% of the time, they are scum
player does die: anything else

i kinda feel like ruru is leaning a bit more towards scum with the recent posts in question, but i still think ruru is townie for now

Spoiler: ceejay

cj's posting so far just feels weird to me
a majority of his reads thus far, (the hws, anti/buj, sky/tw, frank and gamma reads), all feel really safe to me.
they don't feel very committal, and feel like an easy out
i dont see town motive behind that really
i think town is more likely to take a hard stance on reads, not the lazy, non-committal ones

i agree that ceejay is scum here

Spoiler: gamma

gamma feels weird to me
im not sure what to make of their opposition to rurus plan, and then defending frank mostly the entire time just feels off to me
i agree that frank is scum, but why would gamma then defend frank?

gamma's fake frustration from earlier also doesn't really make me inclined to tr him.

Sky's entrance to the game is alarming. Everything she said so far "could" be interpreted as a mere joke. However -in my experience- joking about lynching the IC always comes from scum. And her last post/joke is even more alarming. I feel like it's been made for the sole purpose of declaring herself as the true traitor. It's as if she took ruru's earlier post about the traitor as an inquiry and is responding to it in fashion.

So,

my case on Sky is she is the Traitor

Sir, don't do this to me. I will not hesitate to tell the class why I think this is wrong, especially from you.

again, the "ill explain why... haha jk i wont, dont wanna out alt" feels really wrong to me
theres nothing about it really that feels all that right to me
if ur gonna say ur gonna explain why, be ready to explain it

these are sorta the defending posts of frank i mentioned earlier:

Some peoe form reads differently/at different rates

@GE

the slots that I'm most interested in right now (hws/sky/cjv) are all afk

well I guess I'm interested in this: how are you reading frank/hws/sky/antihero/enigma?

I'm actually pretty interested in your answer here

Frank I'm not sure on, I don't really get the hate
hws kinda feels like something is amiss
sky I think the inactivity is not really indicative of anything, but I don't really know what to make of their content yet
antihero I haven't seen a reason to be skeptical of yet
Enigma has felt lurky, I'd forgotten h was in the game until someone else mentioned him and he seems to have slipped back away.

u, urself screwed urself over by saying those reads were rushed, but yet u had a couple of hours to answer questions.
last i checked, if people are happy with ur lynch because u arent posting content, ud focus more time on actually making the reads, not trying to look productive by posting rushed reads, and then saying that u had a couple of hours to answer questions.

had u not said that those reads were rushed, id probably have dismissed it, yet by the fact u said they were rushed, it proves to me u are scum.

this makes sense to me

this post doesn't make sense to me
if gamma agreed with it, why wouldnt he vote frank as well?
why would he keep his vote on monkey-boye?

i still feel that gamma is scum. i dont really see much town motivation from gamma atm.

[Vex Vience]

Yeah so you should honestly get pinged more by A50's logic imo, you were in the game that I was referring to, you were in fact the IC that game

im not really seeing what you're getting at here with a50s logic.
care to explain?

[Vex Vience]

VOTE: Frank

at work atm, will post later, also have essay due tonight
all ive written is “MacBeth was written by Shakespear”

[Vex Vience]

sorry for lurking
will be more active later today, just have a few last minute school-things i had to do yesterday + this morning
will reply later today when ive actually gotten my schoolwork done and have a minute to sit down and reply

[Vex Vience]

ok, got a few minutes now

i mean, for d1, what better information do we really have to work off of apart from hanging the scummiest one?
i agree, hanging the scummiest one each day isnt very optimal, but we dont know if sky is traitor.
i think sky is certainly scum, im not sure if shes traitor, but it would make sense on this if she is

my major thing for wanting frank lynch over sky lynch is that if we hang sky (the presumed traitor), we still have two groupscum left alive.
if we hang frank (the presumed groupscum member), we have a presumed traitor, and a groupscum still alive.
id much rather lose a potential vig kill n1 to ensure we get a vig kill n2 versus having two groupscum alive, and getting no vig kill n1/2 if that makes sense

this is the post that made me not on board with the vig plan anymore btw

how so?

okay, I see what you mean about groupscum being a more valuable kill (I'm not sure yet if I agree) but even if that's the case we can lynch sky d2 and vig someone else

shooting someone you think is traitor is like 100% wrong.

this is one that feels off to me, not because of burnout, but just because it doesnt seem right
killing off groupscum is much better to do, because if they didnt recruit traitor, theres two disconnected mafia

Associative tells tend to get scum caught so even if you're right it's not obvious to me: maybe scum would perform better if they didn't know each other's alignments.

either way vigging a traitor is still completely, factually idiotic.

also, vig shot does have investigative utility:
player doesnt die: bp / traitor, meaning 100% of the time, they are scum
player does die: anything else

I'm a math major please just sheep me on this being the wrong way to think about the game

I will allcaps if I have to but I'd really rather not

i concede on the first point actually.
thought about it some more and that's my greatest flaw as scum: knowing

who

my partner is.
so yea, i think groupscum would preform amazingly better if they didn't know traitor
also, eli5 the second point? not sure i follow

quack

bark

@Creature mostly, Gamma slightly
sorry but with 48 hours to go I really am not gonna obvtown hard enough to get you all to settle down. all I can do is ask for a reevaluation d2.

I'm more or less fine with this game/list I'm just not warmed up and don't have that urgent energy yet.

lynch someone who's actually gonna flip red. or if I'm designated d1/n1 death lmk and I'll stop putting effort in.

...
this post is really bad, and i hope you know that
"if im gonna die, let me stop putting in effort"
please read my 646 then explain why saying you're not gonna put forth effort is bad

if I were a serial killer here I'd stab skitter most of the time unless I was already outed/leashed in which case I'd prolly go for cjv

why?

that A50 wagon has always been around but no one talked about it...

yea, im not really sure what to make of it

What do you think about BuJaber?

would have to re-read iso

However. some people don't like me SRing an inactive slot, so... *Shrug*

i just didn't like you sring the v/la slot
if someones not on v/la and they haven't showed up, yea, idm if you sr them because they should be around
if they're v/la though, yea, i do care because we kinda expect them to not be around

I think it's time for frank to claim

^^^ agree

Now this depends on the town assuming this,

but given how everyone's been playing, I have no faith in this town to not go apeshit.

wdym gamma?

VOTE: Frank

at work atm, will post later, also have essay due tonight
all ive written is “MacBeth was written by Shakespear”

(shakespeare has an 'e' at the end of it btw

for humorous mispellings of the name shakespeare, please see the 'thursday next' series of books by jasper fforde)

yea, i realized that after posting
oh well, doesnt really matter too much

Caught up:

Town reads:
Vex & skitter -I like their back and forth on setup spec vex in particular because this kind of effort about something so wifomy and unimportant (to the big picture) is usually not worth it for scum. Notice that it isn't posting

about

setup spec that I'm townreading, but it's all the extra research and actually using that to try and deduce some info.

Premature if you ask me because it's not like we can make any conclusions based on it but it got him townread I guess.

He also is kind of just committing to his scumread of A50 in a way that would be detrimental to him if he's scum and A50 flips town. Seems rather careless if coming from scum so unless they're literally buddies (wow that would be a hell of a performance by both) his play doesn't make sense from scum pov.
I don't like his read change on A50 though. I don't think someone who scumread A50's earlier posts would drop them to a null based on their later posts because there is imo little difference in tone and motivation behind his posts between the two readslists. But 647 that is some serious heart to heart. I think he gets it man. I think he gets it. I swear if vex ends up being scum this game he's just way too good at it. Like policy lynch just in case level of good. Quit the game because it's too easy level of good.

(just to reply to a few points in this)
bolded part, what do you mean by that?
also, im not scum. if i was, i would quit after this game for good because there's no way im doing any better than this, ever

@vex - maybe I misiniterpetted A50's posts.. where does he hardclaim mafia BP? I thought he was just hypothetically speaking from scum perspective to get his point across?

Because you took BP.

GOOD EXPLANATION! BP indeed is unaffected by all TPRs except the Tracker. Well done!

So, with the knowledge that I'm indeed the BP Mafioso

, how about you reread my ISO and find my teammates. I gave you a big head start and you should be thanking me for it.

@ruru/vex - I don't really understand the lynch or vig stuff. Care to explain it again? Which should be done to whom and why does it matter?

ruru started the vote for vig shot.
from what i understand, we're voting on who we should hang (obviously), but in the event of us having a vig, who they should shoot tonight

Ah vex = korina. Yeah korina as scum is not obvtown. He's not an easy lynch but he's not obvtown. Vex is being obvtown.

yea, scum!me is literally the furthest thing you can get from obvtown imo.
my scum-meta is so easy to spot, compared to my town-meta

What has been happening lately?

/shrug
people lurking ig
i was gonna post a link to the new york time's current event page, but, eh

I guess something along these lines:

{Creature, me}
{Vex}
{A50, skitter}
{Ruru, TW}
-----null line----
{Gamma, cjv}
{Enigma}
{HWS, Frank}

Lol who puts themselves in their own readlist

me

What do you think about BuJaber?

I had a SR on Antihero, and BiJ didn't post much to make me change my mind tbh

Yeah I think Bu prolly needs death
Can we CFD Bu?

to hang him or to get him to claim?
im personally more fine with a frank / frank replacement lynch rn rather than a buj lynch

Well when I didn't put creature in my townlist earlier he asked why. I didn't think it needed to be stated. I was wrong. Same thing.

Alsp vex put himself as a townread several times this game. Just you know maybe double check yourself that you aren't applying double standards.

this is true

As of now the scum team is probably Frank+CJV+HWS

A scumteam of lurkers? We can only hope.

id love it if it was that.
easy game

also:

@mod hws needs a prod

[Vex Vience]

i just missed those posts, sorry
i quickly skimmed thread, and probably missed a few other things

[Vex Vience]

ohhh ok, yea, that makes a lot more sense now
i get what you're getting at.
and yea, that actually does make sense thinking about it
ok, let me rethink some things then

[Vex Vience]

@vex - in the bolded I was saying that your setup spec was premature imo and might lead us to false assumptions by doing without having any additional info via claims/flips. The only thing we know now that we didn't know before the game started is that creature is IC and therefore scum didn't pick 0 powers, they picked at least 1.
In this game the setup spec might not hurt town so much, but it doesn't help town either because it's hypothetical and might encourage some people to jump to early conclusions that end up being false. But there was one good thing that came out of it which is that you became widely townread.

no? because creature got ic doesn't confirm scum took at least one mod.
town starts with two mods, which are randomly selected.
only mafia choose the mods they get, all tprs are randomly selected

[Vex Vience]

ejjinami replaces FrankJaeger

Day 1 deadline will be 48 hours from this post. I will update this later with countdown tags once I’m not trying to discreetly phonepost from work

oh hi ejji

[Vex Vience]

reading and catching up rn, haven't felt very well over the last few days.
either allergies or a cold

[Vex Vience]

spoilering this because its long

Spoiler:

Btw, I've just woke up and I shouldn't be exhausting my delicate mind still, but that suggestion is so weird to me I can't help but consider possibilities:

1- What if Frank is TOWN (I don't see it, but what IF) and Gamma is scum and is counting on there being no Vig to get an almost guaranteed mislynch on D2?

2- What if Frank is BP and Gamma is his P and is going to argue Frank is alive on D2 because there is no Vig, or is using him to out the Vig if existent?

I guess I can stop here for now. The point isn't arguing Frank's alignment. It's trying to figure out why Town!Gamma would come up with the suggestion as I don't see the benefit, so I'll just wait for him to show up and explain what he thought.

1) True, but we would know that Gamma is scum then, no?
am i just overthinking this?

2) i feel like if gamma does try to, then we'd know that gamma is evil once frank flips
now, if gamma is trying to get vig to out, then that's different

the only sensible options are lynch without replacement or vig

You suggested the alternative plan and didn't mention the lynch w.o replacement. Furthermore, your vote isn't on him for the first plan to go through. I suggest we lynch anyway and call it a day.

i agree we lynch and call it a day, this day is going on for wayyy too long imo

if frank/tw are t/s maybe he lolhammers and we lose two claims

can you please explain this?

@vex - in the bolded I was saying that your setup spec was premature imo and might lead us to false assumptions by doing without having any additional info via claims/flips. The only thing we know now that we didn't know before the game started is that creature is IC and therefore scum didn't pick 0 powers, they picked at least 1.
In this game the setup spec might not hurt town so much, but it doesn't help town either because it's hypothetical and might encourage some people to jump to early conclusions that end up being false. But there was one good thing that came out of it which is that you became widely townread.

i did it to try to get discussion going plus get us out of rvs to help try to maximize the time we had to talk

The only thing we know now that we didn't know before the game started is that creature is IC and therefore scum didn't pick 0 powers, they picked at least 1.

False assumption (Coming from BuJ I'd say it might be a Town slip, but don't quote me on that just yet.)

too late, already quoted you on it ;3

and hey vex, have we ever played together before?
sry xd
my memory is terrible

no, you played in donner party as the sk which i modded, which had MM in it.
that game was amazing for town

Is it bad to mention that I think the Vex Frank argument was sorta stupid and that I think scum in general would be bad off arguing against it as hard as Frank did? Except if it's bussing?

eli5 this please? i'm not sure what you mean. i think you're saying that its bad for frank to try to push the argument as hard as he did unless he was bussing me?
if that's the case, why would he try bussing me, someone who's widely tr'd?
why wouldn't it be the other way around?

ohey my current Pokemon go buddy is a larvitar. I wonder if I should name it in your honour.

ew, who plays pokemon go anymore?

holly shit, no xD that was totally wrong
there's a thing on your profile that links to your main… dunno if you're aware of it or not (you prob are, but lol)
I don't think we've ever played together before, but hey, that's cool! xD

yea, i purposefully linked my alts wiki page back to my mains wiki page

Vex seems to be very enthusiastic early on in a way that isn’t very productive. That’s only the first few posts, but I didn’t get a great first impression tbh

like i said, i did it to try to get us out of rvs and maximize discussion time

to answer ur points:
if i do say im an alt, what does that mean for u?
out of 6 prs, joat counters 3 of them: tracker because ninja, bg and rber because strongman, (strongman ignores bg and rber)
also i do agree that daytalk is something scum will 100% take however i feel that joat may be a very close second pick
i dont think scum would wanna take bp or recruit traitor because with 3 modifiers, the odds of vig appearing is 47%, basically a coinflip, and regardless its a useless modifier
vig just outs themselves once they hit a bp and then the bp mafia goon flips
sure if theres an rber that could fuck things up a bit but thats so unlikely that its negliable
[…]
also to expand on why i dont think maf would recruit traitor:
it puts them down a mod first off, plus if theres no vig (and they took two mods), they can instantly tell if they hit the traitor barring any rber fucking with their results
traitor is 1s bp, and if the person they hit didnt die and they know they werent rb'd, they know instantly who the traitor is
i could see scum taking it as a third mod if they really really wanted it, but other than that, i highly doubt they would’ve recruited traitor
[…]
i think scum were very likely to take:
daytalk, joat and rolecop if they took three
i don't think they did, and im 100% sure they did take daytalk meaning for me its between {joat/rc} for scum second mod

Vex’s ideas about the setup seem stupidly honest. -_- I don’t think he’s faking the confidence in his logic, so if he’s scum I think it’s likely that he doesn’t have teammates that would be able to correct him.
That’s giving me more town vibes though. The logic has a really honest vibe to it and I think it’s unlikely that scum would be so enthusiastic to give out the role list choices, especially with that level of confidence. (ugh, mostly taking that back cuz of the statistics… but I got mostly townie vibes from him anyways, so the read doesn’t really change much)

[/quote]

trying to make sure that i get what you're saying:
if im scum, i am 100% traitor, correct?
however, that likely isn't the case, instead, im town, right?

Start of page 6, going to sleep

I think you should claim first then

If I don't need to, then I wouldn't want to claim. That's not meant to be a soft btw
┐(￣ヘ￣)┌
Regardless of my role, I'm town, so giving out my role as VT would only make it easier for scum to PR-hunt (if there are any additional PRs) and I obviously shouldn't claim as a PR.

I don't really care how scummy my previous slot owner was, if I manage to save the slot without having to claim, then it's obviously more beneficial than if I do claim

so nah

uhh... i dont really like this post
i kinda like the tone, but the last part was kinda is odd to me, (the "it's obviously more beneficial" part)
if you claim you're bodyguard, then scum will target you n1 imo, because obviously you're jumping on one of your town-reads or creature
if you arent bg, then you're just another possible target for them n1, meaning you should claim vt

my thing is that not claiming, sure while it does help, it also hurts town
sure scum don't know what you are, but we also dont know what you are

dat's one sassy cow

why am I scum?
let's talk about that first

or if you think the logic is wrong, then we can talk about it
not sure how much longer will I manage to stay awake though, but lol, go for it

your slot had really weak reads, and then said that it was anti-town of me to make a wall directed at creature telling him to be more active because either he or i was getting shot n1
then when i made the wall directed at him, about his reads and my creature wall, he instantly jumped on the reads, not the creature wall

why is everyone so hard to townread in this game

/shrug

why is this day still going?

i haven't read anything since like sunday but i guess i'll read through now

no idea tbh

Start of page 6, going to sleep

As for now my biggest SR would be prob skitter, but tbh I’m not even sure how confident should I be in the logic cuz I’ve never SR anyone else for that before

In short, some of her posts made me feel that she cares a lot about her tone and about the way other people see her. There are stuff which indicate that she put in effort to make her posts “tonally good” or “tonally read in only one way”, which is generally more scum than town motivated.
There’ll be a bit more about that in the catchup

Not placing my vote now, cuz it’s like… page 6, but this is where my vote would be if there was no more content besides that

i will admit to rewriting posts to get them to sound the way i want sometimes

i do that as both alignments tho

i mean, i think everyone would do this no?

In short, some of her posts made me feel that she cares a lot about her tone and about the way other people see her. There are stuff which indicate that she put in effort to make her posts “tonally good” or “tonally read in only one way”, which is generally more scum than town motivated.

can you throw me some quotes which support this? i'm not totally convinced i see it coming from scum before it comes from town but would be keen to get in behind your eyes here

setup stuff is 5% interesting in this particular setup
for example scum taking no powers whatsoever is slightly beneficial for scum
as scum depending on who my partner was (if they were someone i prolly wouldn't jam super well with for example) i'd probably take recruit traitor and nothing else
if they were someone i have really good synergy w and wanna play scum with i'd take daytalk and nothing else


but ya there's a billion different opinions on which powers to take/not take in this setup so whatever

back to getting red flips

bolded - this also feels off tonally

how so?

i'll be real, i can't even remember who you replaced rn

i'll be real, i can't even remember who you replaced rn

f-sth, I don't remember his name
but he's the main wagon rn, so there should be a lot of reads him

pretty sure not groupscum together

i agree, i think groupscum would be aware of who their partner was replaced by

And hey, can someone explain what’s going on with the avatar change conversation? How did sky change her avatar?

sky said that she'd post later tonight, then said she was watching avatar, then changed her avi to include "im town" in it

we really need the other slots to be playing the game around now somebody do something please

thats what im doing, i just want day to be over tbh

[Vex Vience]

Not_Mafia replaces ceejayvinoya. Welcome!

---

Day 1 deadline is two days from this post.

HURT: NM
HURT: NM
HURT: NM
HURT: NM
HURT: NM
HURT: NM
HURT: NM
HURT: NM
HURT: NM

ok, i think i made my point
ill catchup and reply in a moment

[Vex Vience]

spoilered because its long

Spoiler:

Vex’s ideas about the setup seem stupidly honest. -_- I don’t think he’s faking the confidence in his logic, so if he’s scum I think it’s likely that he doesn’t have teammates that would be able to correct him.
That’s giving me more town vibes though. The logic has a really honest vibe to it and I think it’s unlikely that scum would be so enthusiastic to give out the role list choices, especially with that level of confidence. (ugh, mostly taking that back cuz of the statistics… but I got mostly townie vibes from him anyways, so the read doesn’t really change much)

trying to make sure that i get what you're saying:
if im scum, i am 100% traitor, correct?
however, that likely isn't the case, instead, im town, right?

actually, I didn’t even consider traitor here, but more or less yeah.

i can see how you could be getting to there, however, remember, im korina.
even though i really

really

hate self-meta (or meta arguments in general), my scum meta is highly different than how im playing.
i end up lurking out most of the game as scum only because i dont wanna give up my partners.
if im unrecruited traitor, id wanna try to signal to the others "hey, im traitor" somehow, no?

my major point is if im traitor, whats my signal here to tell the groupscum that im traitor?
acting as obvtown as traitor leads to me getting killed 75% of the time, plus it carries the risk of outing the others if i flip because i'd end up trying to signal im traitor, most likely by tring them. so why would i try to pull a gambit off like that as a role that i've never gotten before? why wouldnt i try to play it safe?

so, if my plan backfires and mafia don't pick up on my signal, they think im town, what happens?
i obviously get shot by mafia, but going past that, there's two major cases:
- mafia assume they were rb'd, and try killing me again - i obviously flip traitor
- mafia assume im traitor, and leave me alone

so once again, why would i risk that as a role ive never played as before?

Start of page 6, going to sleep

I think you should claim first then

If I don't need to, then I wouldn't want to claim. That's not meant to be a soft btw
┐(￣ヘ￣)┌
Regardless of my role, I'm town, so giving out my role as VT would only make it easier for scum to PR-hunt (if there are any additional PRs) and I obviously shouldn't claim as a PR.

I don't really care how scummy my previous slot owner was, if I manage to save the slot without having to claim, then it's obviously more beneficial than if I do claim

so nah

uhh... i dont really like this post
i kinda like the tone, but the last part was kinda is odd to me, (the "it's obviously more beneficial" part)
if you claim you're bodyguard, then scum will target you n1 imo, because obviously you're jumping on one of your town-reads or creature
if you arent bg, then you're just another possible target for them n1, meaning you should claim vt

my thing is that not claiming, sure while it does help, it also hurts town
sure scum don't know what you are, but we also dont know what you are

I’m not sure if I get the point
If you say I should have fake-claimed BG (as VT), tbh it might have worked out, but I’m not really sure how would I feel about doing that.
I don’t like the idea of fake-claiming in general, because I don’t know most of the players here and I don’t know how would they react
And it’s not like I would have had enough time to read the thread and determine their personalities or sth

And town doesn’t need to know what role I am imo. If I’m a PR, I’ll do just fine when I’m hidden and if I’m a VT at least I can pose as a NK-bait.
So as long as I’m not lynched staying hidden is obviously better imo.

yea, that's what i was getting at:
if youre vt, claim bg. scum obviously will target you n1/n2 only because you'll be on creature/one of your strong trs, meaning you can give creature a secondary night to live. once you flip vt, mafia wasted the night, and you were basically a pseudo-bg.
if youre a pr, obviously you claim vt to try to avoid getting mafia to nk you

just been a while since I like... had a feeling about enigma tbh

what do you mean about this?

everyone should vote where they want to lynch

that's what we're doing i think

Did you guys check Korina's Donner Party? That game came up often enough that you should have. In it; Ejji was the SK, and based on that I don't really know what to think of his posts here. I'll be first to admit there's nothing scummy in them, but I am also one who has been burnt often by a scum player replacing out and their replacement towning it up that people disregard the scummy behaviour/content of the original player.

I'll compromise on CJV or HWS but that'll be it. I don't think I want to lynch Enigma today, but I won't be fighting it if there's a majority of SRs on him doe some reason I don't really see.

im trying to compare ejji posting in here to sk!ejji
ejji did say that they hadnt played sk before, so im not sure what entirely to make of other games posts

is tw what mathdino would call a "radioactive wagon for scum"?

I feel like town.tw is a valuable lynch for scum so it's interesting how hard it is to find votes for him

unless it's that

unless its what?

Ejji was the SK, and based on that I don't really know what to think of his posts here. I'll be first to admit there's nothing scummy in them, but I am also one who has been burnt often by a scum player replacing out and their replacement towning it up that people disregard the scummy behaviour/content of the original player.

wat nooo it was skygazer

ejji was original sk, who was replaced by sky, who just gave up

um not sure what 'radioactive wagon for scum' means so idk

he's just so nice and awesome and damn good at town and we mindmeld as tvt that i don't really want to lynch him and be wrong especially not day1

this is really wolfy actually

what do you see in it thats wolfy?
i think the last part is off tonally but i dont really see it being all

that

wolfy imo

Ejji was the SK, and based on that I don't really know what to think of his posts here. I'll be first to admit there's nothing scummy in them, but I am also one who has been burnt often by a scum player replacing out and their replacement towning it up that people disregard the scummy behaviour/content of the original player.

wat nooo it was skygazer

Sky is the one who eventually surrendered .. after replacing Ejji!!!

Check the players list. Slot #6: Skygazer >

ejjinami

^

hrm

VOTE: Enigma

sorry for stabbing the gamestate in the eye with a fork. I don't like either of the wagons lmao.

wdym?

Sup cunts

nm, answer this truthfully, are you jester again?

pedit: ah the feeling is mutual <3

you may kiss the bride

motherfucker, that's my joke smh

this game feels like a loss.

gamestate dissonance here actually might be scum indicative. I've half assed my read on ruru I think

how so?
i dont really see it as ai.
i think its just more of a "this d1 is dragging on so long, why can't we just end it" type post

Hm tw could be Town

explain?

i'm still very flummoxed by ur enigma read; like i feel like it came out of nowhere really

i agree

notmafia is literally what vigs are for imo; if there isn't one i will insist that he be pl'd before lylo especially since his slot has scum equity from before him

i also highly agree on this

also i think this day kinda needs to end; i feel like a lot of the people i want to be talking to now have run outo f energy

i agree, this d1 has been dragging on for wayyy too long for me to actually like it anymore (hence me posting less and less for this d1)
expect me to be more active once d2 starts only because then we'll (hopefully) not have 5 people replaceout.

idrk what I'm waiting for. just feels like we're succumbing to cliche low energy/charisma lynches and I'm not really seeing anyone I want dead more than the NM slot and everyone is being stupid and using that slot to vigtest when
1) we might not have a vig
2) it might be bulletproof

whatever I actually don't think I'm into this game enough to be upset about being mislynched

i mean, this d1 has been going on for about 17 days now, i think. its been dragging on for wayyyyy too long + the sheer number of replacements / prods is honestly demotivating to put forth effort into the game at this point tbh. i just wanna end the day and move on to the next one at this point, and see what the morning brings us.

to also counter your points:
1) we pl nm regardless before mylo/lylo. nm will not be making it to that point at all, ever. we're gonna vigtest him to (hopefully) save us a lynch if he's town
2) if he's bp, he still gets pl'd before mylo/lylo. we just won't know that the vig is in play until they shoot someone else

its not really that much of a waste to try to vigtest nm.
worst case, we dont have a vig or hes bp. regardless, he's getting hung at some point, so i dont really get how we're being stupid on this one
its much better to try to vigtest the troll-slot rather than on a possible scum
regardless of if nm flips town or mafia, he negatively hurts us, so whats the harm in vigging a known troll?.

[Vex Vience]

VOTE: nm
HURT: tw

not feeling well rn, have a headcold and feel like shit
dont wanna accidentally sleep past eod and not vote nm
if im awake before eod ill reply

[Vex Vience]

Oh, ok well
This is interesting

[Vex Vience]

ok, so going into d2, my only major question here is why monkey-boye?
why not creature, the mod confirmed town, or even myself? why a50?

i also don't think we have a vig unless tw is bp/traitor, or vig got rb'd, which i don't see any of those as particularly likely options so...
i don't think there's a vig and the a50 nk is the weirdest nk out of all of us

i also agree with skitter, @creature, you really need to start playing now.
we should also be in a really good spot going into d2 now.

hypo-inno: skitter is good

[Vex Vience]

Well initial thoughts are ruru is town based on the last minute unvote.

Interesting turn of night events. No vig maybe, unless duck is BP/traitor (but don't claim vig if so). Also feel like with the NK target, scum were TPR hunting so we could expect they picked a few modifiers?

that was my thought.
unless tw is bp/traitor or vig got rb'd, then we don't have a vig.
i also don't think scum took all three mods

i didn't really think creature was going to die tbh with how he's been playing this game

Bad mistake from scum.

i agree.
that's my thing as well, why kill someone who the ic was sring? why not try to force a ml from that, unless they thought that a50 was traitor, and tried to shoot him, hoping there was no vig?
even in that case, why would they waste the night trying to kill a50 to just clear him as traitor when they could've taken out creature or myself?

[Vex Vience]

you have been, but you're confirmed town. tbh, i kinda expect you to be one of the very top posters, one of the most active people in the game if only because you're modconfirmed town

[Vex Vience]

will post catchup some time tomorrow, i have like 3 tests tomorrow that i haven't studied for...

Hello again Korina, or should I call you vex. You have a huge word count here.

idrc, either name works
only reason why i havent switched over to main is laziness at this point

[Vex Vience]

actually putting off studying to play forum mafia
i have a really bad habit about saying im gonna study only to write this

if a vig exists I just trust the vig not to be stupid. if I could hammer I would :p

i don't like this post
at all
vig being stupid would mean the vig shoots creature or myself.
i don't see vig shooting you as a sign of them being stupid.
also, the "if i could hammer, i would" feels really weird to me

Cuz I really doubt I’ll get killed with that many people SRing me

this part of the post feels wrong to me
obviously mafia wouldn't nk you because there's better targets, (creature namely), and we all seemed to agree that if vig exists, they shoot tw, not you.
so where does this post even come from?
if it came down to vig deciding between ejji and tw, i think vig would've shot tw first, meaning that ejji shouldn't really be concerned about getting shot regardless.

you have been, but you're confirmed town. tbh, i kinda expect you to be one of the very top posters, one of the most active people in the game if only because you're modconfirmed town

Being conftown is hard. I can't pick fights like non-clears do.

you certainly can pick fights, people may be less willing to fight with you, and it may be harder, but it's certainly possible.
you just gotta try in the right spots.

I think the nk makes sense, it's probably what I would do as scum if I had no strong pr reads

so, you'd rather shoot a possible pr versus the confirmed ic as scum?
please explain your logic on that one

tw is a valuable scum player

I don't really think.

what are you getting at here creature? you kinda cut off the sentence mid-way through...

I'm town, I was gonna deathtunnel A50 today, so I need to re read and come up with a plan B

why would you be death-tunneling monkey-boye?

Well initial thoughts are ruru is town based on the last minute unvote.

Interesting turn of night events. No vig maybe, unless duck is BP/traitor (but don't claim vig if so). Also feel like with the NK target, scum were TPR hunting so we could expect they picked a few modifiers?

pings scummy

and yet my post that said basically the exact same thing as well doesn't? (minus the ruru is town, and somewhat different on scum tpr hunting)
that doesn't seem right here duckko

tw is a valuable scum player

I don't really think.

QFT
I also have no reason to bus considering nobody here knows my scum meta very well. especially someone who nobody was paying attention to.

im sorry
but
that's wrong

if no one here knows your scum meta very well, you can get away with a lot
if i am scum (which im not), and i wanted to play to my mains scum meta, i could very easily get away with it until i outed myself.
wanna know why?

because no one knows my meta meaning i can get away with more insane things that i normally wouldnt do only because ik no one can call me on it

you have a reason to bus here
its to try to make it look like you're town considering you said it yourself, "nobody here knows my scum meta very well"

VOTE: ejjinami

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

please explain those two naked votes?

also you can't have it both ways: if you want to argue that your interactions with ceejay should clear you, then you can't say that you would never bus him for towncred

i also agree with this post

like actual clearing interactions are interactions that are unlikely to come from scum because they're {anti-scum, difficult to fake} and I don't see anything like that here

bussing in a game with nightkills and limited town power isn't anti-scum

nothing between you two was difficult to fake; you practically didn't interact with ceejay at all

i also agree with this post

I would really like to see examples of:
a) apathy town tw - which he refused to provide meta of when I asked and this supports the idea of him expecting to just get a free pass for delivering a redflip, which only scum could really be sure would happen
b) sacrificial scum tw - he might choose try to lynch town d1 here as scum but given the scumreads already on him that would probably lead to him never making endgame. I haven't seen sacrificial scum play from tw before, so I'm curious if it's a thing he does at all

I would really like to see examples of:
a) apathy town tw - which he refused to provide meta of when I asked and this supports the idea of him expecting to just get a free pass for delivering a redflip, which only scum could really be sure would happen
b) sacrificial scum tw - he might choose try to lynch town d1 here as scum but given the scumreads already on him that would probably lead to him never making endgame. I haven't seen sacrificial scum play from tw before, so I'm curious if it's a thing he does at all

it's not my job to hold your hand thru my meta
you should not trust me to hold your hand thru my meta if you think I'm scum

why would I ever dignify this with a response? address it at someone who knows me better or dive it yourself?

you said that none of us really know your scum meta though
also, meta arguments are shit, they're horrible, don't use them

I think I'm being stupid again. this is >rand town!ruru it's just an annoying antitown tunnel.

can you please look at this again and tell me you objectively think it makes any sense for me to charge in and bus cjv as his scunbhddy there. I appreciate that I cOuLd Be TeH sCuMz but like maybe ofrhz made a mod error and Creature is scum
ヽ(｀⌒´)ノ

if you keep tunnelling small possibilities were not gonna get anywhere. I'm objectively more likely to be town than scum here by both play and meta and your insisting I cOuLd Be TeH sCuMz is doing like nothing but frustrating me and clogging up the thread

also minor lamisty moment, sue me: if I do get lynched it's gonna steer heat back @ u which is not super beneficial rn fmpov

Spoiler:

sorry, this was the first photo i found on google

if ofrhz made a mod error like that, the game would've been re-rolled long ago
ik this is just an example, but it is the worst example you could've made
there is literally no justification to it, and it makes 0 sense

also, you objectively being more likely to be town than scum isn't true.
that's subjective.

your play, at least to me, isn't very townie.
the meta thing, isnt that helpful either. "oh look at my meta, it confirms me as town"
i have to admit, i do find you insisting we look at your meta somewhat townie, but what if your scum meta mimics your town meta? what do we do about that then? just assume that you're town and go along with our day?
im also bringing this up again, you said that we don't really know your scum meta.
that makes a whole lot of a difference here

why were you going to deathtunnel him? ie why were you scumreading him?

Just reading the thread through a couple of posts jumped out, namely his sky TR.

But you know... near end of the day.. that post on NM.. you know my policy!!

no i dont

D2 begins
my thoughts: quack!
a shiny wagon forms
my thoughts: quack!
I hop on the wagon
my thoughts: quack!
I notice ruru is town and makes a good point about the wagoned player
my thoughts: quack!
I realise the hammer was pretty good and your sketchy L-1 is a lot more scum indicative plus I put ejji as town before you
my thoughts: QUACK QUACK BINCH

hopefully this explains my thought process in a tidy linear fashion

not really, im not following atm
please eli5 this for me, kthx

========

i feel like tw is certainly scum, and maybe so is ejji
i keep getting the feeling that ceejay's reads will help us somehow as well

that being said...

VOTE: tw

also, i sent ofrhz ths when he said send in memes

Spoiler:

[Vex Vience]

@ofrhz you forgot my vote :^)

probably because i submitted it a few moments after you made the vc

[Vex Vience]

i don't like this post
at all

ok

vig being stupid would mean the vig shoots creature or myself.

ok

i don't see vig shooting you as a sign of them being stupid.

ok

also, the "if i could hammer, i would" feels really weird to me

ok

by way of response please see above

kindly share what the fuck you're angling at?

im getting at that i don't like that this post is really scummy.
vig being stupid means vig just randomly shoots, they don't shoot a scumread
the "if i could hammer" post just feels out of place to me.
it doesn't really make sense to me that you'd say that from a town perspective

and yet my post that said basically the exact same thing as well doesn't? (minus the ruru is town, and somewhat different on scum tpr hunting)

ok

that doesn't seem right here duckko

oh?

by way of response please see above

I found Enigma's wording and timing kinda funny, yours felt fine. it's just you being you

enigma posted it before i did, and we basically said the same thing.
how is it that one person can say it, and its scummy, and another can, and its perfectly fine?

Vex scumreading me here is a high form of compliment bc he's ignoring everything suspicious I'm posting and focusing on NAI nonsense.....and me scumhunting? binchhhh

also ofrhz mod error comment was a joke

im focusing on the things i find scummy.
also, the mod error thing i brought up only because you tried making a comparison using it

@VV

I have a strict Lynch NM policy. A50 unvoting NM and saying I never vote NM is THE singlemost scummy post I think I 'have ever seen. Probably best he's dead, I would have dragged this game waaaay down by now =)

lmfao oh you don't know their history
A50 and NM are like, soulmates in a non creepy mafia way. A50 will keep NM around for sheer enjoyment for as long as possible unless it messes w wincon (me too Tbf just to a lesser degree )

ik nm is just a troll.
that's why im so fine with him getting hung d1.

[Vex Vience]

dunno... did it start with B and end in AAAAAA?

(づ￣ ³￣)づ
I kinda skipped half of his posts tbh
looking for someone to tell me if he's actually outside his scumrange or he's just aggressively vomiting wordcount to avoid being read accurately

like I can't be stuffed trying to dig thru his ISO but a lot of his posts are garbo

ok, i havent really ever rolled scum and none of you have played with me irl so really the only source of my meta that is known is myself.
my meta can simply boil down to this:

am i talking / am i active?:
If yes, odds are im town
If no, odds are im scum

unless im actively trying to look town and emulate my serious-town meta, my scum-meta is literally lurking
you said that yourself in noir that if i kept lurking, you'd have said that i was lockjaw scum.
me trying to emulate an active town meta as scum is incredibly hard for me only because i naturally wanna lurk out and let the others play the game
as town, i don't wanna do that, i wanna be active and try to be a force that players should deal with.

my serious-town meta (the one im playing to rn), involves me cutting out most of my jester-y nature and playing it with the sole intent of winning, which involves a lot of wall posts or posts where i post a lot of stuff
it involves me posting my thought process as i read through.
does that mean everything will be relevant? no, but its still what im thinking
looking back at forest fire blitz, my posts (to me) felt very empty. they felt like im talking just to talk.
looking at one of my actually relatively good town games, (Sadomafiosochism), sure i joked around at the start, but i played seriously after that calling it as i see it

my biggest point is why would scum!me want to willing post my entire thought process when ik its a lie and if i fuck up, i could give away my partner(s)? that's why i suck at playing informed minorities and why i prefer being town or third party.
its like me gambitting. why would i (as scum) put myself in the spotlight so early when ik (and everyone else knows) that if im scum, and i flip scum, my interactions with everyone else will be scrutinized?

im not a strong scum player, but i am a strong town player.

this is one of my final points on this: if im scum, why would i make a wall towards the ic telling them they should be more active? why wouldnt i want (as scum) the ic to be inactive when i could just as easily get tr'd without making that post versus making it?

also, ftr, i made this account just to prove to myself that i actually am a good fm player if i try
that's the whole point of this account
for me to have a game where i dont get pl'd d1 just because its me

[Vex Vience]

also, you can't really tr/sr someone if you admit you skipped reading half their posts
that's like telling someone to look at half a photo and expecting them to figure out exactly what's going on
maybe that half you left out is actually important things, maybe its not
you dont know that unless you actually read it

just a thought though

[Vex Vience]

You really think he'd get comfortable enough to do that as scum? Not the impression I got from Forest Fire.

> get townread
> start prodging
I feel it

Still think he's more likely just town tbh but that's more of an holistic read than my own

i've said now that towards the end of d1, i was getting burnt out
i really didn't wanna keep playing the game when d1 was dragging on for 19-20 irl days.
i've been also thinking about the game a bit more since d2 started so yea, ive been a bit more lurk-ish.

[Vex Vience]

enigma posted it before i did, and we basically said the same thing.
how is it that one person can say it, and its scummy, and another can, and its perfectly fine?

because you have different wincons?
like if scum and town said different things all the time this game would be very boring
this reads as more intolerant of other playstyles/stances than actually thinking and forming a logical opinion. why the fuck does two people saying a similar thing with different trajectories and different styles mean that they must be the same alignment?

also, @tw, how do you know that me and enigma have different wincons?
are you assuming that im certainly town and that enigma is certainly mafia?

ive also been trying to figure out this one, but haven't really been able to

[Vex Vience]

Hi I'm here to ensure scum ain't got nothing on town

mic drop

i cant tell if you're being sarcastic or not, and it worries me
also, im working on re-evalling everyone atm seeing as we actually have active slots
expect it within the next few days

[Vex Vience]

okay, so

the worst is not happening because skitter is waffling

let's try this

anyone not naked voting alonzo with me can be scum with alonzo.

what are you trying to get at with this?
also the fact that we've had so many replaceouts is kinda making me eh towards this game

[Vex Vience]

VOTE: alonzo

i've really only stalled out because of the sheer number of replacements
tbh, its kinda making me not wanna play only because by the time i start to actually read someone, they've replaced out, meaning that most of my reads have to get scrapped because the new player plays entirely differently