Open 737: Stack the Deck (Game Over)

[skitter30]

Also you have a hundred posts ... why dont i have a good handle for your reads yet ...

[skitter30]

I mean ur the one who called it lynchmobby; its kinda incongruous of you to say that you can't elaborate on it

Given that the people who are willing to lynch enigma today lines up pretty much exactly with the people I'm ok with lynching, i do not think i will support an enigma wagon at this time

[skitter30]

I mean ur the one who called it lynchmobby; its kinda incongruous of you to say that you can't elaborate on it

Given that the people who are willing to lynch enigma today lines up pretty much exactly with the people I'm ok with lynching, i do not think i will support an enigma wagon at this time

yeah I can't elaborate on it yet sorry. gonna have to live with that for the time being.

i mean ur more than welcome not to answer it if you like

i really really don't want to lynch you today and i'm trying very hard to figure out what you're thinking to see some sort of towniness from you so that i can avoid doing that but you're making it kinda hard

[skitter30]

my blatant refusal to elaborate shld probably be telling lmao I'd say focus on my other reads today fwiw

eh i was going to follow up by saying that if you just wanted to evade you should just tell me so that we don't have to go through the motions of playing 20 questions

[skitter30]

my blatant refusal to elaborate shld probably be telling lmao I'd say focus on my other reads today fwiw

eh i was going to follow up by saying that if you just wanted to evade you should just tell me so that we don't have to go through the motions of playing 20 questions

can't play 20 questions. I just dislike the wagons atm

ye sorry, wasn't trying to badger you; when i realized u weren't going to answer in a way that i found useful i realized t'would be a good time to stop

still going to vote you tho, sorry

[skitter30]

yeah sorry

scum - was scumreading sky + anti-mindmelding (we gel very well as tvt) + i have no idea what he's thinking despite him having a lot of posts + he's being evasive + his reads progressions are coming out of nowhere + just hasn't seemed town + trying to scumread me here is bad

source: american presidents mafia (+ watching me play scum in the open that just ended)

[skitter30]

are u trying to say that you can't talk about gamma right now in particular? (i'm guessing for ongoing game reasons?) i thought u were indicating that in general u didn't want to talk about ur reads and gamma was a specific example of a general phenomenon; like i feel like i've been trying to get you to engage and you've just been kinda evasive and eh-y and just very underwhelming and it reminds me a lot of american presidents mafia when i spent like a month trying to get u to engage before the gunsmith fiasco; like realizing you had over 100 posts but i didn't know what ur reads doesn't make me think i'm talking to a town duckling here

i'm still very flummoxed by ur enigma read; like i feel like it came out of nowhere really

i'm not trying to be lazy and i'm trying very hard to engage with u to try to find reasons to townread u and i just feel like ur being evasive kinda

i don't know where else to lynch right now

not lynching today: vex, a50, ruru, enigma, creature obvs

i think ur scummy

notmafia is literally what vigs are for imo; if there isn't one i will insist that he be pl'd before lylo especially since his slot has scum equity from before him

bujaber is kinda passively scummy but not actively; i'd be ok lynching there but it isn't optimal

hws i'm entirely ambivalent on

frank was bad; ejji is ok and i think he's redeemed the slot enough for today

and gamma is kinda bad too

[skitter30]

{creature}
{a50, vex}
{}
{ruru, enigma}
{} - null
{bujaber, hws}
{nm}
{gamma, ejji, you} * ejji b/c of frank; don't want to lynch ejji today
{}

kinda like this

[skitter30]

NM withiut posting content is indeed vig material but he's actually sitting in a scummy slot as is. I don't see a reason not to just lynch the fuck out of that and then IF a vig exists they can shoot slowly up the realist. like there's no reason to lynch anywhere but obvscum and the vig should just blast into the lynchpool if it exists so idk why you're not keen on lynching that slot

like i mean i don't know if a vig exists but like that's literally the point of a vig imo; to shoot nm if it exists

i guess i can lynch there but that feels kinda underwhelming after this super super long day but the slot feels kinda scummy from mwnn and cj flaking both; i don't think i would lynch it just for being nm but coupled with brass and cj i guess that owuldn't be too bad

where do u want a vig to vig tonight if one exists

[skitter30]

can u do a tiered list for me?

i feel kinda the same way about a hws vig as u do a hws lynch; i feel like that's kinda underwhelming and just like an easy shot if that makes sense; i don't really scumread him actively, more passively

frank was in the very very lowest slot; i usually only have 7 tiers but i didn't feel like i could adequately get the nuance across so here i have 9

also i think this day kinda needs to end; i feel like a lot of the people i want to be talking to now have run outo f energy

[skitter30]

VOTE: gamma

[skitter30]

bleh that's an icky wagon too; i hadn't realized

i don't know where i want to vote right now

[skitter30]

bleh that's an icky wagon too; i hadn't realized

i don't know where i want to vote right now

Why not?

That's really too much hesitation for a day 1 lynch. You have scumreads. It's not like you're null on everyone. You either vote for one of them or sheep your townreads if you must.

{creature}
{a50, vex}
{}
{ruru, enigma}
{} - null

{bujaber, hws}

{nm}
{

gamma

, ejji, you} * ejji b/c of frank; don't want to lynch ejji today
{}

kinda like this

Gamma Emerald (3): HeWhoSwims, BuJaber

, skitter30

i don't have solid sky meta that i can talk about right now

my one completed game with her did end but i was scum and it's hard for me to meta someone when my only game with them i was scum; i don't pick up on things the same way from that side of things

Actually I have to ask a general question first to determine type of player you are.

Are you for or against PL'ing miller claims?

I'm for it if you can't tell.
It's why sometimes I'm able to place someone in or out of my scumpool based on if I think they have a chance at endgaming or not. This is normally more applicable when someone actually claims a role, but I think it can be applied here also for sky/tw. Also to some extent to NM. Like some have said he's a good vig target but even if there isn't a vig that slot is likely to get PL'd sooner or later and is therefore not a priority to lynch now.

no, i wouldn't really pl a miller claim by virtue of being a miller. if they were behaving scummy i'd lynch them but that's kinda independant of being a miller

idk i think i dislike a gamma vote the least right now but i'll probably vote elsewhere if necessary to prevent a no-lynch

p-edit i'm an idiot; no i didn't pick up on that; i think tw was being hesitatnt cuz of an ongoing game thing; i was very confused

VOTE: hws i guess

[skitter30]

i've kinda given up on the 'he's here not here' thing when we've had 5 replacements, hws might be up for one, and day1 has been going on this long tbh

[skitter30]

@ofrhz creature and hws need prods

prodded

i mean, 5 replacements, and he's due to be replaced in 6 hours; we haven't had super much luck with replacements producing readable content in reasonable periods of time

mwnn -> cj -> nm

anti -> bujaber who took like half a week to catchup

frank -> ejji who isn't caught up

sky -> tw who feels incredibly underwhelmed with the gamestate

i'm not super confident we'll get someone who'll give useable content in 48 hours and i feel like we've reached the point that we kinda need to move on given how apathetic everyone is

[skitter30]

because i'd feel bad lynching him if he's just town and apathetic :/

but he played the apathy card in american presidents mafia too which is why i'm kinda skeptical

i just don't like to be wrong on him

VOTE: tw

[skitter30]

ye i know, sigh

[skitter30]

anti -> bujaber who took like half a week to catchup

4 days. It only feels longer because I do my catchup all in one go.

Ftr I got the part where you don't want to vote for gamma because you scumread his wagon composition my question was why are you having difficulty voting someone when you have this many scumreads.

I guess you won't relate to my sky argument then if you don't PL millers as a rule.

well my point is that it took you more than 48 hours and that someone knew replacing in would prob require time too

i think i talked about all the wagons; none of them feel quite right; i think voting tw feels not-super-wrong

that's personal bias and has nothing to do with winning the game

it does if someone is starting to kinda realising on a subconscious level that this isn't scum!ducky and you're twisting their arm back into lynching me.

the main reason I'm netting skitter above the null line rn is the actual parallels she's drawing between me and other games. I think she's actually thought about this. she's just wrong and a part of me is pretty sure she realises to some degree that she's wrong.

you also clearly don't know Skyg's scum meta lmao

my gut's telling me that you're scum tho :/

and the fact that the best parallel is american presidents is worrying me

(aside thinking about it shouldn't be a tell either way for me? i dont' half ass things as scum or try to bluster my way through things)

i don't know sky's scum meta either

[skitter30]

not before I'm lynched
I'm actually v/la over the weekend but won't qnnounce it because you fucks are mislynching me anyway

i do hope u have a nice vla tho

[skitter30]

you know what, i think that works for me too

VOTE: notmafia
HURT: duckling

[skitter30]

pretty strong still, why?

you've also become pretty strong town in the past couple of irl days but i don't think i can pinpoint how or why that happened

[skitter30]

i don't agree with his tw read really

[skitter30]

my reference is american presidents mafia; i'd point to a particular post but he was pulling it a lot to avoid talking to people

oh here's an example: viewtopic.php?p=10325903#p10325903

[skitter30]

i mean i've been trying very hard not to lynch you despite my misgivings and i just took my vote off of you so i'm not entirely sure what u want from me here?

[skitter30]

sorry skitter, that was in response to you clarifying whether I thought you had +scum equity for your read on my slot. the answer is no, it seems believable as genuine

@ruru, probably

sorry, i didn't realize what that post was a followup to till this post

@ruru when u get back, where's the null-line in that readslist?

[skitter30]

We all agree we’re trying to lynch people whose scumflip can give meaningful associations right? So why NM?

you know, for someone who isn't voting 19 hours to deadline and who's been discussed as a lynch option multiple times today, i don't particularly think you get to object to an nm lynch

[skitter30]

I appreciate the sentiment, but u confused me with vex and have a great weekend!

I hope u feel better vex!

[skitter30]

lmao that's a weird nk; i didn't really think creature was going to die tbh with how he's been playing this game (creature this means that you need to start playing the game) i'm guessing somebody thought he was a pr or something from the vig/tracker business early on; his final reads might be worth looking at; tbh i was half-expecting to be nk'd

i'm really happy tw wasn't shot last night; since me/ruru were pushing for a tw vig;

i didn't really have much confidence on not_mafia was flipping scum; it was a compromise vote for me on someone i was nullscum on close to deadline; after the flip i'm feeling better about tw given that he repped in and immediately voted cj and was pushing him throughout the day and i wouldn't have wanted him to be vigged after that

i'm guessing that there isn't a vig

if we're doing the hypo-inno thing i hypo-inno alonzo/hws

[skitter30]

Ehh, I have stuff to post, but it's mostly unreadable cuz I haven’t edited it yet
Page 19 and have to go in a sec, so I’ll vote now

VOTE: NM
that's not actually a bad lynch. I don't really have a good grasp of cee's meta, but there isn't anything in his ISO that would make me change my mind about his slot.
From what I've seen, increased care for saying his opinions should be scum indicative for cee, but he seemed to be in a catchup-mode most of the time, so idrk if I should be even reading that...
I don't really have a strong read on him
I think I was also the only SR in his read-list and I think it's kinda funny, but idk if that's even AI for him
still, not a bad lynch imo... and his wagon still looks really pure :/

If I manage to come back today before EoD, I’ll post a catchup and if not, I guess I’ll do it d2
Cuz I really doubt I’ll get killed with that many people SRing me

also this is :/ and feels kinda bussy/partner-y/wanting to make sure i'm on the partner's wagon especially since he's saying eh doesn't really have a strong read on him

i'm going to start here i think

VOTE: ejji

[skitter30]

Well initial thoughts are ruru is town based on the last minute unvote.

Interesting turn of night events.

No vig maybe, unless duck is BP/traitor (but don't claim vig if so)

. Also feel like with the NK target, scum were TPR hunting so we could expect they picked a few modifiers?

oh i hadn't thought about that but yeah this could be a thing

[skitter30]

also this means my track record of reading a50 correctly is still going strong

[skitter30]

also the strength of my hws scumread is less than the strength of your ceejay scumread so probably we should just lynch nm

Maybe you missed it or you didn't take me seriously, but I'm most serious when I say I do NOT lynch N_M regardless of both our alignments. I don't even shoot the guy when I'm scum and he's town if I had a say on it. The one time I remember we shot him it wasn't my call and I argued against it in the scum PT.

Now I know it's unreasonable and borders on throwing, but the good news is I won't oppose it or fight or back. I just won't actively vote N_M myself.

i mean this was a thing even and he could have been pushed on this? i'm just confused overall

[skitter30]

he also has a thing where he tries to soft pr to get himself nk'd so overall it's a little random but not super surprising all in all

[skitter30]

i'm still not super solid on town!tw despite being on cj tbh; the apathy/tone still feel not like town to me; but pushing the scumflip was enough to make me not want him vigged

actually 1523 feels kinda like partners to me

[skitter30]

1331 doens't really feel not-partner-y; it's not like he jumped on that wagon or anything; it feels lip-service-y without actually doing anything about it

i don't know if gamma thinks about his posts that way

[skitter30]

I'm town, I was gonna deathtunnel A50 today, so I need to re read and come up with a plan B

why were you going to deathtunnel him? ie why were you scumreading him?

Hypo-inno ruru
Idk what skitter is asking about what I think of my posts

wasn't asking a question, more noting that i know if you necessarily think about your posting in terms of '95% of the time it does nothing and just makes him look bad' (1593)

I think tw's play has been results-oriented in a tmi way: he expects to deliver us a redflip and then not die as a result, without really scumhunting or doing anything else towny

ok so you literally witnessed what happened the last time I tried to bus so please tell me you actually think I

*clears throat*

> rep'd into a scumslot
> decided to expose scum!cjv for towncred (?) when he'd just been dropped into his usual "too hard to read" bin
> cjv then spewed antiassociatives and then flaked from the game because.....?? he didn't like my bus strategy? waht
> I suddenly got really really good at bussing and changed my bussing ethos dramatically

like this conclusion is so vague and

has nearly no thought behind it.

I'd feel better if you jumped into the thread with a fucking fake guilty. seriously. stop tunnelling me and pay attention to the fact cjv and I were obviously not scum together.

actually fuck it this could be scum. will revisit later


hypo inno Bujaber

1. i've seen you rep into slots that you knew were scumslots before (cough american presidents cough)

2. cj didn't flake from this game specifically; he posted nowhere on site for like three days; i checked when he got replaced

3. what's your bussing ehtos?

4. bolded - i dislike that you characterize her post this way; i think she def put thought into it; it feels like overinflated rhetoric to discredit her

[skitter30]

> cjv then spewed antiassociatives and then flaked from the game because.....?? he didn't like my bus strategy? waht

for that matter this, as a first reaction (8 minutes after your previous post on a different topic) feels scummy also

if you asked me whether I'm a viable ceejay partner or if he spewed antiassociatives with me I'd have to go reread the game because I'm town and I don't read my own associatives with dead scum

actually as town i'm very aware of what my associatives are with flipped players; it's not something i have to go reread to get a feel for most of the time

this is tricky bc I play with friends a lot but American presidents mafia I avoided the Mom wagon as long as I could without basically claiming her partner. open 733 I dug my heels in and flatly refused to bus (only thing we did was d3 distancing between myself/ircher). can't think of anything else to talk about rn but I'm ~80% anti bus and generally fairly bad at it.

eh, fair; you hard-defended her day1 and then came up with ridiculous me/nauci/mom associative day2 and it was ... not a clean bus to say the least

4. sure, that was somewhat exaggerated and rhetorical from me. but fmpov it's frustrating that she's only seeing points which paint me in a bad light. it's like she's processing enough to have a scumread on me but not stopping to check herself. I know ruru is a damn good player which is why I'm tearing my feathers out.

like i get what you're saying but your outrage here feels kinda over-the-top-y and not entirely real; it feels kinda like faked outrage

==

if you keep tunnelling small possibilities were not gonna get anywhere. I'm objectively more likely to be town than scum here by both play and meta and your insisting I cOuLd Be TeH sCuMz is doing like nothing but frustrating me and clogging up the thread

i don't think that scum!you is a small possibility; i don't think that your'e scum as strongly as ruru does but i do think it's a possibility worth considering

like i think it's easy to be confident cj slot was flipping scum if you know that he's scum if that makes sense

==

why were you going to deathtunnel him? ie why were you scumreading him?

Just reading the thread through a couple of posts jumped out, namely his sky TR.

But you know... near end of the day.. that post on NM.. you know my policy!!

so basically because he was going to not-vote nm? because i was kinda thinking that a replacement coming in saying they were going to death-tunnel the dead player could be a way for scum!you to try to feign surrpise as his death, especially since this doesn't seem like a super strong reason to me

==

giving awkward reasons for a survivalistic deadline hammer on scum is towny fmpov: town are afraid if it flips green they'll be next, whereas scum know it will flip red

yeah i think he may have hopped on as a partner for the towncred, knowing it would flip red

it's not a very good vote and it reads partnery to me

==

I thought u were an Invisibility Alt FTR!

alonzo since you've read the whole game can you give some sort of readslist?

actually i shall start a new post at this point

[skitter30]

@VV

I have a strict Lynch NM policy. A50 unvoting NM and saying I never vote NM is THE singlemost scummy post I think I 'have ever seen. Probably best he's dead, I would have dragged this game waaaay down by now =)

i've seen him say this as both alignments; it's literally nai for him

==

@VV

I have a strict Lynch NM policy. A50 unvoting NM and saying I never vote NM is THE singlemost scummy post I think I 'have ever seen. Probably best he's dead, I would have dragged this game waaaay down by now =)

Well you're both wrong then lmao

Why have a blanket policy on

player

?

!remind me

==

enigma posted it before i did, and we basically said the same thing.
how is it that one person can say it, and its scummy, and another can, and its perfectly fine?

because you have different wincons?
like if scum and town said different things all the time this game would be very boring
this reads as more intolerant of other playstyles/stances than actually thinking and forming a logical opinion. why the fuck does two people saying a similar thing with different trajectories and different styles mean that they must be the same alignment?

more of the outrage-that-feels-fake thing

like your reactions to like everything feel very extreme?

==

I don't really consider gamma's interactions clearing either for the record, I just think they're less likely to come from a partner and I already have a weak tr on gamma

i really see nothing to townread gamma for; nor do i think his interactions with scum are remotely clearing; he's def still in my lynchpool

==

I don’t see how this equals me forgetting who’s in the same slot
Was ceejay interacting with the other slots in a meaningful way?

eh this is low-key townie maybe? not sure. one good post tho isn't a super awesome reason to townread someone tho

==

radical thought
someone remind me why I'm townreading Vex?

sheer wordcount + mindmelding + being the towniest town to town early game

i don't know his scum meta

why do you describe his posts this way?

like I can't be stuffed trying to dig thru his ISO but a lot of his posts are garbo

wait clarify?

See anything in Vexys Iso worth a SR?

see that's what's giving me pause, theres nothing too gross and agendaey his ISO is just a mess. like he's posting a LOT of useless stuff

==

VOTE: the worst

why are you voting him here ... ?

==

wtf is a fnord

subliminal messaging attempting to misdirect/confuse people; it's like the sort of thing that comes up in conspiracies; think illuminati and all that fun stuff

==

@skitter30, respect your angle.
FYI if I am lynched here I do want a minute of silence for how fucking well I read that slot given brassherald is the readable one in it and he flaked out but yeah the projected confidence prolly didn't do me any favours

I thought my engagement with ruru just now was one of the more real reactions I've had to a read in quite a long time but eh

yeah idk if scum!you is so persistant in rebutting people; the projected confidence/outrage is still bothering me tho; it doesn't feel real to me

idk you're not my top priority right now; i want to sort ejji and he should be off of v/la soon

don't really get the enigma scumreads either tbh

==

like i think it's easy to be confident cj slot was flipping scum if you know that he's scum if that makes sense

Slam dunk

yeah like it was easy for me to bus vizzy in tw's open because i knew he was scum and flipping red so i positioned myself around that; i don't know if i would have been nearly as confident as town

[skitter30]

I'm probably taking your word for Vex being town a little here. he's low on my priorities anyway tbqh but i haven't read any posts of his and felt like "YEAH DAMN RIGHT" yet

Tbf I've skipped a lot of his posts

it seems like there's a lot of fluffy stuff and I'm getting a kinda self important/lotta clout energy but also like non nuanced 1 dimensional reads but i guess that's pretty consistent with his town meta so *shrugs*

i got that 'YEAH DAMN RIGHT' vibe a lot early game

==

ya nah that's fair, scumflip after a long ass d1 makes d2 ironically pretty exhausting

you're fine just bad timing for me to try and re-read you

happy w Gamma or Enigma today

might be ok with gamma, but enigma i still think is town; he has this like ... guileless quality to his posts that i townread

==

HWS was TOWNY AF

A50... mostly clown shoes..

Hws suspicion was well founded despite what you say captain hindsight. Also Im pretty sure HWS wasn't the only one sus of A50...

a50 was incredibly obvtown despite some peope's misgivings; what does the fact that that hws was not the only person sus of a50 have to do with anything or enigma's read on you

have you ever played with a50 before?

please describe how hws was towny af

==

Hi I'm here to ensure scum ain't got nothing on town

mic drop

uh this is a p1 rvs post that i read as mostly nai; i don't think this qualifies as 'townie af'

[skitter30]

Gamma Emerald (4): Creature, Bujaber, Alonzo, the worst (L-2)

this is an icky wagon

[skitter30]

the people i townread are: vex, ruru, enigma, creature

the people i don't are: buj, alonzo, tw, ge, ejji

and three of them are on that wagon

[skitter30]

the people i townread are: vex, ruru, enigma, creature

the people i don't are: buj, alonzo, tw, ge, ejji

and three of them are on that wagon

And that makes sense to you?

We know there's a traitor and a groupscum left alive.

You have to ask yourself if both could be on gamma in only 4 votes or if one of them is bussing the other (gamma) in only 4 votes.

If the answer is no to both of those then ejj should either be confirmed scum to you or you know for a fact you are townreading scum.

the wagon comp is bad; three of the five people i don't townread are on it; and a fourth is the person the wagon is on; and the fifth is the person i'm voting

i'm not really following your logic, sorry

i don't know if both scum are on it, nor do i know if gamma is scum. i do know htat i dont' really townread the wagon comp; if both are on it than gamma is town but i don't know that obviously

also we don't know if a traitor is alive; they could have been made into groupscum

i don't know if i'm townreading scum; i do know that i'm scumreading town and i'm therefore trying to sort that group

[skitter30]

I know you didn't claim to arrive at that pool because we're voting for gamma, so that's what makes it strange. If it were for that reason it'd be natural to get the playerlist divide that you ended up with. But you seemed to end up with it completely independently and I guess I found it a weird coincidence and I don't trust coincidences in a game of reads, human intrraction, and deception.

If I trust my townread on you then the logical conclusion is that you are being fooled by one or more of your townreads.

Or I am wrong about you and this is a result of you unable to keep up with your lies and fake reads to keep them aligned/consistent. I'd rather play with the assumption that I'm right since it's easier and better for my ego.

that's not why i arrived at that list, you're right. i'm noting that people i don't townread are on that wagon. that doesn't mean i townread gamma, but rather am kinda skeptical of the wagon that is on him. the gamestate is loosely pointing to town!gamma, yes, but that doesn't mean i townread him; those aren't the same thing to me

i think we view this very differently; i'm still not really following the bolded; to me a logical conclusion is that i'm scumreading town, not that i'm townreading scum? i don't get why that follows from the above discussion

or you can look at the a50 wagon from day1; i called it out several times because the wagon comp was gross; i also independently townread him but it wasn't *because* of the wagon

==

@Skitter

We just played together for a month or more... why cant you sort me correctly here?

uh i can't talk about one of those for *reasons*

and for the micro i didn't townread you at any point and day1 the wagon on you was bad so i tried to not-compromise lynch you until we decided on someone else; and day2 gut-avoided your wagon because it was bothering me

the closest i got to townreading you was gut + disliking wagon comp on you

why do you think i can read you correctly? i don't have such a great history reading you ...

[skitter30]

@ofrhz

: can you prod ejji please?

[skitter30]

why has this game stalled .... ?

i have like nothing new to say

sure, let's see what happens if i vote VOTE: alonzo

[skitter30]

i still think ejji's slot is scum

[skitter30]

@ofrhz

: i'm going to be v/la from tonight till wednesday morning

---

Noted C:

[skitter30]

i don't townread anything you want; nothing is happening in the game right now; ruru wants it and i don't have any particular objectsions

i don't believe i ever said the two of you are a team

[skitter30]

do tell

[skitter30]

still really want to sort the ejji slot

you're more somewhere i'm voting while that's not a thing

i don't really know what it's indicative of that the game randomly stalled

[skitter30]

VOTE: alonzo

i've really only stalled out because of the sheer number of replacements
tbh, its kinda making me not wanna play only because by the time i start to actually read someone, they've replaced out, meaning that most of my reads have to get scrapped because the new player plays entirely differently

i understand what you mean about the replacements, but given that you repeatedly stated that your meta as scum is to lurk ... i'm beginning ot lose my townread on you given that you haven't posted much of substance in like two weeks

==

Post 288. Aug 30th.

This game started Aug 24th.
Unless skitter is playing 4D chess......
She's town here.

==

skitter's posts in that pt are

super

pockety

skygazer should have been paranoid here

I would expect something, anything other than a couple of questions and then "skitter feels town"

i mean i was trying to keep the townread until i killed her

but i hadn't thought about how easily she gave me a townread her really; yeah that's a bit odd

==

in this game in particular, that skyg didn't put a lot of effort into sorting skitter and that people should be checking themselves for half assed reads on skitter

this is a weird thing to say given that you replaced sky ...

==

SKOTTER

v/la is scummy so please stop being v/la.

love,
ruru

i have returned! i did not have internet access for like two days!

==

gamma feels off

i'm also beginning to wonder if he might just be lynchbait given that all the sketchy people are pushing him

==

Ohhhhhh self meta
guess Alonzo is locktown now

can you throw some instances of you using selfmeta as both town and scum to me pls?

i don't like this post

==

Part of me wants to NK spec
The other part is too lazy to do it

i literally have no idea what you're thinking about the game

given that we're towards the end of day2 and you've been in the game the whole time, i am finding this problematic

==

actually @skitter we should jam about Vex when I have time to dive his ISO if you'd be cool w that

he was hilariously obvtown earlygame

the less he posts the more i'm losing the read

he's still somewehre north of null but not nearly as strongly

[skitter30]

it feels a bit like an amished tell; like you agree that your pred had done something sus

i hadn't really thought about it till ruru pointed it out honestly

[skitter30]

@skitter that’s probably because idk what to think either
The only think keeping me from replacing out is me being dedicated to see this game through
I honestly wouldn’t mind being lynched but I still won’t take it lying down

i mean you're at l2 right now and not doing anything ...

if being at l1 would make you more motivated that could definitely be arranged ...

[skitter30]

I was a little confused about it early game but tbh I figured that Sky took a similar approach to me (she would have been aware you were scum in pypx/y since the beginning of this game I'm pretty sure tho I didn't double check the timeline) -- even tho I'm not 100% sure I can sort you, it's actually quite a lot easier assuming you're down then working with you + sorting once you have more content and are submerged in the spiritual flow of the game

if that makes sense
I'm loosely aware I might be spouting gibberish but eh

i mean i think this thought process makes sense; what's bothering me about what you said is that you said this is something you were sitting on for a while ... this is a weird thing to be sitting on about your pred

[skitter30]

if being at l1 would make you more motivated that could definitely be arranged

This line was funny to me. Sounds like it's from a cheesy old mafia movie.

TW: were you reading the game at all before replacing in?

==

ArcAngel's Jungle Republic is an ok show of me being this way as town but I hammed it up a lot

yeah i was thinking about that game a bit

yeah *hammy* is a good word; this game doesn't really feel the same as that one to me tho; i'd have to go back and like reread that one to remember why exactly

==

I'm asking about the opposite of bussing meta: games where you forced through scum agenda and got yourself lynched to set up your teammates to endgame

uh american presidents mafia

he let his partner bus him day3 and the partner rode it to like mylo

i don't really see him doing that here tho?

i'm not sure what it's indicative of that he isn't brining this up

==

yeah I know but also
:/

ok ejji could easily be scum. quick WIM on the catch up is super easy to fake. he's lurking during the bit where the game needs a fire lit under it. scum motive is p clear there

GEm doesn't feel right lmaoo

what is WIM?

==

Irrelephant11 replaces ejjinami. Welcome!

hi hi hi

==

If anyone wants my vote elsewhere do these two things:
summarize a towncase on enigma
summarize a scumcase on whoever you want lynched

If that doesn't happen, you'll have to wait for me to catch up more.

i mean i'm still mildly townreading enigma and you're the person i want lynched soooo

(literally the only reason why i'm not voting you right now is that the slot was empty for like a week)

enigma i'm kinda lightly townreading on tone + he seems to be the lynch target of multiple people i'm scumreading which makes me wary

==

-Just because it's not scummy of enigma to do the things laid out in 1157 doesn't mean it's towny of him

we should be lynchign scummy people, not people who haven't towntold; those aren't the same thing

==

ceejay only got lynched because a50 was also hard scumreading him and he was like universally nullscumread and I thought his reaction to tw's scumread was also scummy

i mean it was partially a compromise deadline lynch, at least for me

a50 wasn't ever going to vote nm either i'm pretty sure

[skitter30]

{creature}
{ruru}
{enigma, vex}
{}-- null
{bujaber, alonzo, gamma, tw}
{you}
{}

i'm unhappy with that bujaber/alonzo/gamma/tw tier but i'm not entirely sure what to do about it

idk what else do you want me to talk about?

[skitter30]

enigma is some combo of gut/tone/good timing of posts that i dont' think i can explain better + most of the below-null camp have been pushing him and like none of the above-null camp have been

tw used to be my biggest scumread so i'm making progress; still don't feel like i can confidentally townread him but it isn't nearly strong of a scumread as it has been previously

and sure

which one do you want to look at?

[skitter30]

oh and your greenflip would prob move him down a bit

i don't know if it would knock him out of town tho; i'd probably create a new tier between his current one and null and put him there i think

[skitter30]

ok i'll start with hws since that's who alonzo replaced

No big fan of Frank either for the same reasons as Gemerald/Vex

VOTE: Gamma emerald let's do this for now I think!

i'm still a little dubious that he voted gamma over frank here (you ultimately replaced frank) given that iirc there were already votes on both frank and vex

Ruru why would it be expected town behaviour to copy your vote which iirc was the only one on the wagon

but i also thoguth this was a reasonable explanation

I'm catching up in the middle of the vig talk and don't see why scum A51 would want to gambit bait the vig shot... As either alignment? I feel the only way to resolve this is shooting him and if he doesn't die he's the

BP goon?

Or is tired!hws being dumb here

actually rereading this i'm not sure why he's assuming that there's a bp goon ('the' bp goon) and why he isn't assuming he might be a traitor or something

and then he basically flaked and replaced and idk if that's ai for him

I'm town, I was gonna deathtunnel A50 today, so I need to re read and come up with a plan B

this is still bothering me; it makes me feel like he was trying to act surprised about a50 being dead; and that it took him a fairly long time to come up with like reads on anybody else

@VV

I have a strict Lynch NM policy. A50 unvoting NM and saying I never vote NM is THE singlemost scummy post I think I 'have ever seen. Probably best he's dead, I would have dragged this game waaaay down by now =)

although i kinda believe this from the snakes and noodles game we just finished; he death-unneled nm throughout and i think he was scummy pushing a policy lynch but eventaually read a newbie where he did just that as town and realized that it's just a thing he very very strongly believes in

VOTE:GAMMA

L-1?

i'm also dubious about the gamma wagon in that the people i don't townread are voting him

HWS was TOWNY AF

A50... mostly clown shoes..

Hws suspicion was well founded despite what you say captain hindsight. Also Im pretty sure HWS wasn't the only one sus of A50...

still uncertain that he labeled hws as being 'townie af'

why has this game stalled .... ?

i have like nothing new to say

sure, let's see what happens if i vote VOTE: alonzo

Boredom vote?

How are me and Ejji a team here skitter?

not sure why he's saying i said he/ejji is a team given that i didn't say that

Ok, I have reads on all slot sbut Skitter who will get their own post at a later time (cos meta)

i can kinda buy that he didn't have a read on me right away

all in all i'm kinda gut town on him rereading the whole thing in one shot?

[skitter30]

i don't especially scumread bujaber, but i'm not particularly against wagoning him to see if that'll help move the game out of this complacent/stagnating state tbh; my alonzo vote didn't really accomplish anything

VOTE: bujaber

==

what is WIM?

Wants It More
like the burning urge to win the game that radiates from some people's posts

very often confused for towniness

oh lol; i'd not heard that expression before

==

i'm also dubious about the gamma wagon in that the people i don't townread are voting him

ok but you're literally wrong on more than half of those reads. statistically. it's just seems weird you're avoiding players based on wagons when you're wrong on so many sub-null reads

yes but i'm not wrong on like half of them i'm pretty sure and i'm having a lot of trouble identifying which half is which and i don't like to be on wagons that scum is pushing

==

this game is confusing me so maybe I'm the best course of action

eh this is maybe kinda townie

==

this feels fine imo

i don't like that hammer; it felt like he was trying to make sure he was on that wagon; it felt kinda rushed and like an undeveloped vote/read

[skitter30]

I cant tell if ur being sarcastic or not

[skitter30]

what the hell was I thinking that hammerpost was awful

I cant tell if ur being sarcastic or not

not sarcastic
I was clearly distractrd when I read it, it's messy

can you talk about your read on the frank/ejji/irrel slot please?

[skitter30]

sorry i was out all day yesterday and came home super late and super exhausted; i should have declared myself semi v/la for yesterday and today; activity will be better mid-next week, apologies

==

i'm becoming increasingly worried about gamma. i feel like he's floating by and doing literally nothing useful and i still have no idea what he's thinking about this game despite asking him like four days ago; he's had time to try to figure out his reads and nothing really

==

alonzo I think is probably town pending another metadive

yeah i'm tending town too

i don't especially scumread bujaber, but i'm not particularly against wagoning him to see if that'll help move the game out of this complacent/stagnating state tbh; my alonzo vote didn't really accomplish anything

VOTE: bujaber

okay for the record I feel like this is a way to guarantee your vote

actually

doesn't accomplish anything

eh fair

==

Is skitter ever fully confident?

eh sometimes

this game i'm very confident that ruru is town; was very confident that a50 is town

i'm usually more confident on townreads than scumreads, but sometimes i get a really strong scumread too (see the jungle republic you repped out of )

i'm not feeling super confident about scumreads this game

==

who plays scum self-sacrificially what

I'll need more than gut on enigma to townread him
Or at least I'll need enigma to come make my gut feel it too

fair point re:HWS but I think that if he was scum that makes it more likely the other scum tries to hop on the wagon, knowing that if they don't it'll be a pure wagon. Either way I think a scum on the wagon is likely, and that if I'm right on that it's either enigma or someone widely townread like vex or skitter
Leaning the former because of the fact that town functioned well enough to hit scum
What was the case on the red slot? Lurkiness? Or like a real case someone put forward?

I think the VCA needs to consider the game state. Part of my reasoning for voting NM was just to get a flip. I don't recall being convinced on CJV (or that slot) being scum, especially with the lack of content from that slot. All three players in that slot barely had any posts, so I didn't really have a read - a few others were more convinced (CJV meta) but I didn't see that. On NM, I'm quite neutral on keeping him around as he can sometimes have good reads later, though he is a bit hard to read himself (which is a liability so don't mind not seeing him endgame).

i feel like this is a townie reaction to cj's flip

==

speaking of which,

HURT: the worst

I think this is correct regardless of how people are reading tw; if a vig exists, he's probably scum

I agree
VOTE: Enigma
HURT: the worst

your lack of progression here is bothering me; this reminds me a lot of the sky/tw vote you made earlier

i really don't feel like you independantly scumread enigma, but rather that you're voting him because other people are pushing him

(voting after tw gives a daycop guilty, as you vote to vig tw, your other biggest scumread?)

==

Yep, feeling like duck is scum bp, and if so GE is probably his scumbuddy.
VOTE: tw
HURT: tw

uh why do you think this exactly?

tonight, if these roles exist:
- roleblocker chooses another target
- vig shoots the same target

assuming no bodyguard shenanigans (side eyes @ skitter and a50) the vig then has a guilty if they exist. the RB also knows who the vig is lmao but ye

ez game

this basically

this is what scum *don't* want to happen if those roles exist

also a bg should be on creature irregardless of hypothetical other prs

==

can we take a moment to appreciate how objectively wolfy Enigma's posting here has been

i don't really think it's wolfy tbh

i think it's just bad and like he dosn't super follow all the implications of the role interactions

==

actually I don't know if that makes him not traitor but I feel like it's kind of unlikely to be written by someone with pt access 6 minutes after my post here

i don't super follow how this conclusion follows from the beginning, but either way there may or may not be daytalk; we don't know

==

I don't have enough context to suggest tw is definitely town I'm just confused at half this playerlist being like "He led a lynch on scum, MUST be scum himself!!1!"
Korina/Vex is consensus town, yes? I'll come back to the slot.

that's not really where my scumread on him stemmed from, more like his posting was kinda bad and reminding me of american presidents

but i'm kinda chanigng my mind; don't think i want to lynch him today

==

Can someone make a case for why I should have a [insert your read here] on Korina? Really struggling to see much beyond like the number of posts and some early messy setup spec

i mindmelded with him super early on and he jsut felt kinda town

i'm becomign a little worried because he said lurking is his scum meta and his activity dropped off consistently from around miday1; i'm worried that he could sustain town posting early on but dropped it later when faking that much effort became too hard

[skitter30]

VOTE COUNT 2.10

Alonzo (1):

Vex Vience

the worst (1):

Enigma

ruru (0):

BuJaber (2):

ruru, skitter30

Enigma (3):

Irrelephant11, the worst, Gamma Emerald

Irrelephant11 (0):

Creature (0):

Gamma Emerald (3):

Creature, Bujaber, Alonzo

skitter30 (0):

Vex Vience (0):

Not Voting (0):

With

10

alive, it takes

6

to lynch.
Day 2 ends in (expired on 2018-10-02 10:30:00)

Other:

- skitter30 V/LA Fridays and Saturdays
- BuJaber V/LA through Sunday

i feel best about this now

VOTE: gamma

l-2 and all that good stuff

[skitter30]

(voting after tw gives a daycop guilty, as you vote to vig tw, your other biggest scumread?)

to clarify i'm aware this wasn't a real guilty, but rather tw emphasizing how strongly he scumreads enigma; my point is that i think gamma should be more cautious here if tw is pushing it

[skitter30]

irregardless of his alignment he wasn't there for pre-game discussion; he repped in after that so i don't super follow this logic still really

[skitter30]

- if I'm shot and skitter lurks for the rest of the game, she's scum

it's been a busy week for me; without internet access for a few days and been out of the house all day for another

not being absent intentionally but rather cuz of irl stuff; nothing to do with this game in or anything

activity should be better mid next week hopefully

i gotta bounce and didn't read the rest of the posts on this page

[skitter30]

irrel definitely tries hard as scum but I think he's decently towny in this game independently of my inno

i'm thinking this too and it's making me a little unsure about how to read him

he feels the towniest i've ever played with him so i'm not sure what to do with that especially since he apparently tries very hard and since he replaced my biggest scumread

==

I mean, he'd have read the thread after replacing in and saw that there were only two slots posting there

like the way pregame works would still be present in his mind as groupscum meaning unless he was specifically trying to townslip then any thought process he fabricated would probably start with the assumption of there being two scums in the pt

eh fair

i see your logic but it's not something i personally find super convincing

==

Buj is right on the other part of my scum-meta, (at least, I think it was Buj who said that): My posts feel much more awkward as scum. I don't realize that, but others certainly do. This is something I'm genuinely curious on, do any of my posts feel awkward to you Skitter?

no, your post haven't felt awkward much at all really

i think this entire post is pretty townie and kinda explains where you are in this game rn, which is what i was kinda looking for; like it's very self-aware and just feels like a genuine thought process

==

My plan is to go look back at Mutant’s Jungle Republic and see how Buj’s posting style compares to this game. I think I was TRing him in that game, and if my reasoning for his TR there is the same as here, I’m willing to lynch him under the presumption he’s scum.
I also highly doubt that Buj is that good to the point where he can play the exact same way as town or scum.

that game was multiball; i feel like he prob plays scum differently in multiball than in singleball; it's easier to look town in multiball imo

==

Hm that makes my gears turn cos tw and bm were both scum there

your apathy is bothering me greatly

==

Like @world what do you think about this eod vc? Gamma looks sorta towny for it

so i've been thinking since hammer that your slot is the one that bussed

gamma was incredibly apathetic towards the lynch and while it was building on cj the first time around, and also had this awful vote at that time when the wagon was at l-5 (just posts after it had gotten to l-1 with people calling to end the day with a cj lynch; cj was nm's pred)

I think I'd prefer to hang sky, shoot frank, but even then I'm tentative on Frank
VOTE: Skygazer
HURT: frank

i don't know what his bussing meta is but this vote was really really bad; we talked about it a lot at the time

==

i feel like this is a townie reaction to cj's flip

given he was the L-1 vote why are you townreading him voting a slot he was dead null on? :S This feels like a very honest explanation of bussing but it doesn't read like a townie vote when he apparently had other stronger reads he could have been pushing?

not his actual vote but more like that he was admitting about beign apathetic about voting there and that he wasn't really expecting him to flip red; i feel like scum would try to make more of a production about their bussing vote and try to take more cred for it

==

started

W A L L
O F
W I F O M
A N D
S E L F
M E T A

i thought it was a good post

==

IMO RNG is not a valid excuse for townreading duck.

@anyone

What does RNG mean in this context?

not sure; i think he may have meant something else

[skitter30]

he feels a little more confident/opinionated than i'm used to if that makes sense

[skitter30]

I think it’s slow but bound to get something done right eventually

I still dont like like any of your posts

[skitter30]

VOTE COUNT 1.28

Almost50 (0):

HeWhoSwims (1):

Almost50

the worst (1):

Not_Mafia

ruru (0):

BuJaber (0):

Not_Mafia (7):

the worst, ruru, skitter30, Vex Vience, Creature, Enigma, ejjinami

LYNCH

Enigma (0):

ejjinami (0):

Creature (0):

Gamma Emerald (2):

HeWhoSwims, BuJaber

skitter30 (0):

Vex Vience (0):

Not Voting (1):

Gamma Emerald

With

12

alive, it takes

7

to lynch.
Day 1 ends in (expired on 2018-09-14 16:30:00)

Other

:
- skitter30 V/LA Fridays and Saturdays
- HeWhoSwims still needs to be replaced

wait wow let's talk more about this
@anyone thinking scum didn't bus
NM flipped and then so did A50
That means you think scum:
A] were both voting Gamma Emerald
or
B] were Gamma Emerald and one of the people voting Gamma Emerald (meaning only two votes at EOD were not on scum)

So scum like almost definitely bussed? Which is already the conclusion to make when they shoot off wagon...
Which I guess makes my argument that tw didn't bus sound dumber
Maybe it is dumber
I still think he's a suboptimal lynch for riding the slot across two wagons and all the way to lynch

But since yeah, scum almost definitely bussed, my argument for it being one of enigma/skitter/ruru/vex makes sense again
I still think enigma is the most likely, but I've kind of been operating on "this looks enough like townskitter" without going in depth there
ditto ruru, though I don't know ruru's meta much at all (just sheeping it)

Like @world what do you think about this eod vc? Gamma looks sorta towny for it

Ehhhhhh so like I mentioned there was absolutely no value for me voting the L-1 here, especially if I was scum knowing that NM would flip red. I would gain zero town cred ...why would I just not lurk and let someone else vote or hope that a NL went through? At that stage I would have voted anyone (and it would be anti-town not to given the overwhelming apathy which you missed out on), and probably just my bad luck that NM flipped red making my L-1 awkward. I wasn't very confident on NM flipping red anyways

Yeah like this i think is kinda townie attitude ro the red-flip

[skitter30]

I don't feel all that good about my reads rn either. it's kinda bumming me out and I'm in a position of "who am I most/least wrong about" rather than "who do I expressly scumread" zzz

I feel this way too and its making me kinda ???? about the gamestate

[skitter30]

my case on gamma is that he has okay scum equity and that he should be policy lynched for copping me.

I think it’s slow but bound to get something done right eventually

he's also done a few things that seem outside of blackstar-tell territory and this post is one of them

I think hypo-inno-ing uou was bad and slightly scummy; idk if its pl worthy

I townread him the least and there's just like no effort to gamesolve in his posts and i *still* dont know what hes thinking abd its the end of day2 already

[skitter30]

@ofrhz

: going to be vla again from tomorrow night till tuesday night

Last time tho; sorry about all the vla

[skitter30]

Also that gamma wagon is has really good composition; im happy ending ending the day with a gamma lynch

[skitter30]

v/la is scummy xd

v/la is scummy xd

v/la is scummy xd

v/la is scummy xd

v/la is scummy xd

Yeah sorry, its been bad timing for me irl. This week shoukd be the end of it

[skitter30]

VOTE: Gamma
is this a wolf? ¯\(°_o)/¯
am I more likely wrong on Gamma than anyone else I'm TRing? d=(´▽｀)=b
do we need this phase to end? ＼（○＾ω＾○）／

this is kinda meh

==

Creature has died!

presumably no bg or vig then; scum prob didn't take 3 modifications

hypo-inno enigma

==

i'm trying to decide if i want to vote irrel or not

he individually has been fine i guess but his preds really haven't been

==

VOTE COUNT 1.28

Almost50 (0):

HeWhoSwims (1):

Almost50

the worst (1):

Not_Mafia

ruru (0):

BuJaber (0):

Not_Mafia (7):

the worst, ruru, skitter30, Vex Vience, Creature, Enigma, ejjinami

LYNCH

Enigma (0):

ejjinami (0):

Creature (0):

Gamma Emerald (2):

HeWhoSwims, BuJaber

skitter30 (0):

Vex Vience (0):

Not Voting (1):

Gamma Emerald

With

12

alive, it takes

7

to lynch.
Day 1 ends in (expired on 2018-09-14 16:30:00)

Other

:
- skitter30 V/LA Fridays and Saturdays
- HeWhoSwims still needs to be replaced

i mean in this vc gamma is dead, nm is dead, and a50 is dead (as is creature). everyone alive is either on town!gamma or scum!not_mafia

my best guess is one on not_mafia and one on gamma; i highly highly doubt both partners were off; if both partners were on i think tw is one of them

==

Like why isn't this obvious? @anyone other than ruru, am I being dumb or is it just true that I made a good point and ruru is refusing to accept that?

i think you have a decent point

i also think ruru doesn't really view mafia from that pov

i also can understand why you're annoyed with her

i'm trying ot figure out if that annoyance is ai and rn i'm not sure

you're kinda my highest priority to sort right now; i've been trying to since daystart of day2 but ejji flaked and so that didn't really work out

==

- skitter30 V/LA Fridays and Saturdays
- skitter30 V/LA through Tuesday

just regular weekend v/la from now on, thanks for putting up with the vla

[skitter30]

Skitter who are we lynching

also like, mechanical things aside, have you thought about the possibility that enigma is scioness from pick your poison and we just saw him play an extremely scummy game as a tpr where he almost got mislynched and now he's townier than that game but he also isn't doing much that's hard for scum to fake or stepping on any feet and then he just randomly flips scum

like I've been fighting an enigma lynch because people's reasons for scumreading him are awful but he could actually just be scum by poe and gamma flipping town is kind of leading me there too

I need to actually sort bujaber somehow?

tw is still probably scum but I still don't want to lynch him while a traitor flip could still happen

really want to sort irrel today before we decide on a lynch

i had not considered that wrt enigma and scioness, but that's a fair point tbh; i'll try to re-iso him tomorrow

[skitter30]

yes hello how would you like to go about sorting me

idk i'm still working on that part

skitter is still a top townread, as is the worst

working on more thorough vca and re-reading more of the thread because idk what else to be doing rn

why am i top townread here? you've tended to waiver on your read on me in the past? i guess i'm asking less of why you're townreading me and more of why you're so confident in it

how are you reading ruru?

==

I’m l-2 already wow :/ uggh, bet that at least one scum on my wagon already ...

@engima: who do you think it is?

[skitter30]

duckling what are your thoughts on life, the universe, and everything?

where do u think we should be lynching today?

[skitter30]

duckling what are your thoughts on life, the universe, and everything?

life is long (but fun mostly)... the universe is infinite, and skitter30's avatar is but a mere speck in the bigger picture. as for everything, I couldn't pretend to understand that. I'm but a duck and there's so much stoof out there. I feel a bit deflated and profound atm. hoping my muse returns.

where do u think we should be lynching today?

Enigma.

i was expecting pithy but profound and ponderous works too

ok i'll actually do the iso hting now

[skitter30]

skitter yours is the only iso I 'v not read, will i find you swimming upstream or going with the flow?

I thinj ive been fairly clear about what my opinions are, but ive also been working with ruru and a50 and creature when they were alive and korina too a bit

==

Actually im going to do the enigma iso a bit later when im at a pc

[skitter30]

i was expecting pithy but profound and ponderous works too

#greatposting

:)

[skitter30]

does anyone have a strong read on irrel's slot either way?

[skitter30]

ok this'll be a ramble-y type thing

-> still kinda feel like the pagetops thing in rvs exhibited a townie type tone

-> also 77 i feel is a kinda unstilted response to someone (presumably fake-claiming) traitor

-> just feels kinda townie and non-agenda-y tonally and just very guileless

-> noting that he's kinda defensive of sky

->

VOTE: NM
Trollylololol

HURT: duck

still don't think this is a bussing vote tbh

-> still think 2062 feels townie

idk and nothing realy feels scummy from him imo

[skitter30]

being wrong and not winning != gamethrowing imo

gamethrowing is doing something dumb like lolvoting in lylo

gamethrowing isn't 'i was wrong on this read and helped lynched him'. it might be a reason for a loss but it's not a gamethrow

[skitter30]

i guess one of the things i'm worried about is that there's a bunch of people in my 'i can't read super well rn' zone and gamma/enigma keep on drawing votes, and alonzo a little bit too, but irrel and bujaber haven't really much at all

also i'm a little bit worried about irrel because both of his preds are bad and he's supposed to have a good scumgame so like idk if i'll ever really catch him doing anything scummy

bujaber is kinda like lacking the passion/stubbornness from pypx/y. like he's just kinda around but not really *pushing* anything; in pypx/y he got into a massive fight with sando and kept trying to draw people's attention back there; he doesn't really have any strong scumreads here

at the same time i don't know if i can blame him because i don't have super strong scumreads here either

[skitter30]

being wrong and not winning != gamethrowing imo

gamethrowing is doing something dumb like lolvoting in lylo

gamethrowing isn't 'i was wrong on this read and helped lynched him'. it might be a reason for a loss but it's not a gamethrow

I meant if I roleplayed lurk-nsg and then also didn't solve the game by doing so then the combination would be gamethrowing because non-interaction also leads to other people producing less content

eh fair

[skitter30]

There weren't any sando moments in this game for me to react to.

i can understand that

you just feel a little bit lacklustre in comparison to what i'm used to if that makes sense. like you're just kinda lacking that *opinionated* feel. and kinda less nuanced too now that i think about it

but like I really don't think he can pull of the townspamming as scum.

Particularly the parts where he's so sure he's on par with creature on the NK-attractiveness scale.

this is kinda pinging me and tbh kinda feels like it comes from scum who thinks they aren't nk'ing korina any time soon. like you're calling him town for believing something so different from reality

I mean there's like only 3 choices for me: enigma, phantismo and ruru. Ruru my gut says town and nobody apart from elephant exoressed a scumread on her...

If she's scum here she probably just wins

i mean yes i kinda agree but you're kinda like just resigning yourself to this and seem to be writing her off as hard to read:

I really haven't played enough with ruru to know how well she plays as scum and our playstyles sort of clash naturally from what I saw in X/Y. Like I still don't understand what the fake claim was hoping to achieve.

==

Did you read the things I called out from enigma when he talked multiple people out of lynching the red-flipped slot the first time, instead suggesting the slot should be vigged? If he knows there's not likely a vig it was a pretty good defense. Even later he kept saying "I'd rather lynch Frank" as the NM wagon built up and he definitely only voted NM after it was inevitable and there was no more time left to get momentum elsewhere

like i read it but i just don't see your point to be that convincing really?

i don't really think he talked people out of lynching cj; more giving his opinion that he found the slot hard to read (ie i odn't remember him actually convincing anyone not to lynch cj because of that). suggesting the slot should be vigged is still +town to me; he doens't know if there is or is not a vig unless he's like actually the vig; i'd only really be suspicous of people pushing for someone to be vigged instead of lynched if the red flip was bp in someway but cj didn't flip that so i still think that asking for him to be vigged on day1 when we odn't know if there is a vig is kinda townie

like idk townies can also be wrong initially about a read/flip and like the things you're pulling out don't feel siginficaly more likely to come from scum to me

like i wasn't really ignoring you, more noting it and just kinda thinking that it wasn't super convincing really

Which isn't to say I have to be right here and you have to be wrong I'm not 100% confident on enigma and I do scumread BuJ to some extent I just think you and ruru are using fairly weak reasoning to arrive at the townread on enigma

like i basically feel like this except i think you're using fairly weak reasoning to arrive at the scumread on enigma

[skitter30]

okay I have wrapped my head around it and I think that makes some sense
Waiting to hear from skitter re:enigma d1 but for now I'll UNVOTE:

i reread those posts but idk i don't really see them as scummy? or townie really? like they don't feel much ai to me either way

[skitter30]

oh, so in other news, we have different options today and I'm not sure which is best:
1. massclaim
2. no lynch, massclaim tomorrow
3. lynch, massclaim tomorrow (if green)

I'm not sure if #3 is that good actually

I tentatively like #1 I think?

i'm kinda cool with massclaim

i kinda feel like the hypo-innos are artifiically limiting the lynchpool for everyone except a potential goon cop

or maybe at least a goon cop claim?

[skitter30]

yeah fair but potnetial trackers/rbs aren't artificially limiting the lynch pool rn since we didn't do those sorts of innos

[skitter30]

sorry not until following why we want to no-lynch here

[skitter30]

kinda think alonzo is town tbh

[skitter30]

i keep swinging to bujaber/irrel

mostly cuz i townread everyone else more

but i'm kinda ??? dubious and uncertain

[skitter30]

also i'm a little worried that i'm confbiased now

[skitter30]

ruru you've either given up on appearing competent

or you have something you're not saying. fess up.

NSG is being surprisingly incompetent from my pov

???
sorry not quite following why this is super relevant to anything. although the bolded in tw's quote feels a little role-fish-y to me

I think you're scum trying to discredit my read on you

players better than me agreed 1095 was a scumtell in that game

ok

a) why isn't he town annoyed that you're tunneling him and trying to get you to stop?

b) why is 1095 being a scumtell in that game mean much for tw's alignment in this one?

==

you have no read on me. you're covering your ears and yelling that I'm a wolf. stop being ridiculous, seriously.

do you want to talk about why my 2412 never comes from scum me here or do you want to explain why it comes from scum me here. stop using blanket scumtells or like... tells that work on.... another player? merged with weasel words?

feels kinda overeaction-y and over-inflated-rhetoric-y again

i kinda scumread you when you write in this tone; i can't think of a place where i saw town!you sound like this; best place that i can call to mind is american presidents day3 when you were pushing the fake guilty

tbf i haven't played with town you in a while so it's possible your writing style has changed

==

rel i could easily be wrong on so.... wiser heads appreciated. I'll try and sort his preds rather than sorting him for himself but in a vacuum I think he's Just Town

yeah so i guess i'm maybe giving more weight to his preds than you ahve; while i agree in a vaccum he's just town he isn't playing in a vaccum; both his preds were scummy and that's something i can't quite get over

==

Tbh I'm exhausted trying to soft TPR too hard and eat a nightkill so you lazy fuckers don't have to sort me so I'll go try and solve this the good old fashioned way :c

i lowkey thought you were doing that

i am very angery with myself for

survivalistically

hammering gamma right now
day two of this game was really fucking stupid. enigma is a wolf.

this is kinda weird; i didn't super feel like you were in danger of getting lynched yesterday. or even today really
==

someone else please tell me if you feel another motivation to his game entrance here. i know it's page 4 but like game mindsets have a tendency to spew a lot about where a person's at entering the thread so if someone wants to work thru what's going on here without being like "but the woooorst it's only page foooour" i'd be super happy ♥♥

i guess why i townread it is that i just *don't* see any sort of agenda to his early posting

and like none of the things you're pulling out really feel scummy to me?

i don't have any enigma meta besides pypx|y and i was scum and it's hard for me to sort people from that end. kinda doubt i'll be meta-ing him in the near future tbh

==

[skitter30]

wrt to enigma i'm kinda losing patience/motivation to keep fighting this given how prevalent the read is and like all of you can't be scum. and i don't even have a super strong reason to townread him

but i still don't think he's scummy and i don't really think you lot have a super strong reason to scumread him either

i also feel like if he flips town i'm going to be incredibly pissed and probs death-tunnel everyone who's pushed that if i don't like get nk'd first

[skitter30]

I literally cant make the game work if thats the scumteam

[skitter30]

really? why not?

Idk. Like i cant really wrap my gead around it and it doesnt really make sense to me

[skitter30]

I mean i guess?

I think shes town pretty strongly tho. I suppose its possible that im pocketed but like i don't think so? And if she has she's either going to like have to nk me or explain why we're both alive in lylo so either way im not super worried about it atm

I think she might be tunnled on you, yeah

Do u think me/enigma could be svs?

I have been p-edited; im much slower at typing on a phone than on a computer im realizing

[skitter30]

you don't see even the potential for a s/s agenda in ruru's recent posting?

That was a response to this

[skitter30]

I think you're scum trying to discredit my read on you

players better than me agreed 1095 was a scumtell in that game

ok

a) why isn't he town annoyed that you're tunneling him and trying to get you to stop?

b) why is 1095 being a scumtell in that game mean much for tw's alignment in this one?

NSG is being surprisingly incompetent from my pov, the worst is scum, mathdino should know better, IDK shit about ruru

what about my play has been incompetent, even from your own point of view?

are you saying that you've played to your town meta this game such that a knowledge of it would mean that i would be townreading you?

no, i really haven't been tunneling them, at least not in the sense of screaming for people to follow me.

you didn't answer my question about whether or not my vote is reasonable from my perspective. you saying that my vote is wrong just from your perspective is meaningless - if you're going to say that i'm being incompetent, then my vote has to be unreasonable, it can't just be wrong.

like, let's posit that there was some "theoretical scumgame" and a person played exactly to it, even if they were town. would you call someone who voted that person incompetent just for being wrong even if their reasons were right?

even from your own perspective of (theoretically) knowing that you're town, unless you think there are reasons that from

my

perspective i should be townreading you and i'm just not seeing those reasons, you can't say that i'm being incompetent for just being wrong. i'm not psychic.

I'm basically sheeping players who are better than me on it not being a towny thing to say

I've been searching and can't find a quote along the lines of "jjh sealed his own fate when he called nsg incompetent for scumreading him" from that game but I'm almost positive somebody said it too

I think im going to bounce now and look at this tom; its getting kinda late for me

[skitter30]

I think you're scum trying to discredit my read on you

players better than me agreed 1095 was a scumtell in that game

ok

a) why isn't he town annoyed that you're tunneling him and trying to get you to stop?

b) why is 1095 being a scumtell in that game mean much for tw's alignment in this one?

NSG is being surprisingly incompetent from my pov, the worst is scum, mathdino should know better, IDK shit about ruru

what about my play has been incompetent, even from your own point of view?

are you saying that you've played to your town meta this game such that a knowledge of it would mean that i would be townreading you?

no, i really haven't been tunneling them, at least not in the sense of screaming for people to follow me.

you didn't answer my question about whether or not my vote is reasonable from my perspective. you saying that my vote is wrong just from your perspective is meaningless - if you're going to say that i'm being incompetent, then my vote has to be unreasonable, it can't just be wrong.

like, let's posit that there was some "theoretical scumgame" and a person played exactly to it, even if they were town. would you call someone who voted that person incompetent just for being wrong even if their reasons were right?

even from your own perspective of (theoretically) knowing that you're town, unless you think there are reasons that from

my

perspective i should be townreading you and i'm just not seeing those reasons, you can't say that i'm being incompetent for just being wrong. i'm not psychic.

I'm basically sheeping players who are better than me on it not being a towny thing to say

I've been searching and can't find a quote along the lines of "jjh sealed his own fate when he called nsg incompetent for scumreading him" from that game but I'm almost positive somebody said it too

I kinda think that tw thinks that from his pov he should be townread by you here (or that at the least you should be re-evaljating) and that you weren't really trying to sort him honestly since you weren't really interacting with the points he brought up

I dont really know if he reps out as scum or gets that frustrated; i think he just lets the lynch on him happen

I

[skitter30]

if you're town you should literally be embarrassed by how badly you're misrepresenting players who you allege are better than you, and who you pretend to learn from. you have no semblance of an ability to read me and have shown no interest in attempting original thought while doing so,

and yet the meta you sheep is cold and badly applied.

I don't think you're bad at mafia. I think you're a wolf. if you're not please go and think on it and we can try this again later.

Kinda agree with this tbh; im still not super confident why nsg scumreading jjh for saying something worded vaguely similarly to something tw said in response ro you here is specifixally relevant to this circumstance

[skitter30]

whatever I'm done. if hunting through my bleeding heart for things you can twist to look like cogdis is all you're interested in I'm out af.

Hey i hope i didnt do something ti make you want to rep out; if i did id like to talk about it in post because i really dont want to play that way

[skitter30]

also I think it's agenda-y that you only started pushing me after I disapproved of your enigma case:

your new scumpool is {ruru, bujaber, enigma}
enigma is probably an easy lynch
bujaber is also probably an easy lynch, but you ignored him and pushed me instead even though I'm not an easy lynch and you've been townreading me all game which I think is kind of partnery

Realistically you aren't getting lynched today; idk if he starts a thing here with you unless he really believes it

[skitter30]

I'm not like a huuuuge fan of how in every other game we've played you've worked hard at sorting me and now that I'm a replacement you're just like "well I can't trust me to sort him so I'll just ignore him and read his previous slots"
Not just because it's annoying that it feels like your playing with my slot instead of me (personal reason)
But also because the fact I reportedly have a strong scumgame hasn't stopped you from actively sorting me in the past
If skitter wins this game as scum this was my hint....

I mean I think I'm trying to sort you

A lot of the things you're saying I don't think is much ai or is tending town

Im a little hesitatnt to call you town flat out because a lot of the things I'm now learning are ubiqutous in your towngame (being unsure, lolvoting, sheeping people, backtracking) im not really seeing

You feel kinda ... neater than im used to and its throwing me off a bit

And at the same time i did scumread both of ur preds and i dont think i can completely disregard that. Im not like trying to ignore your presence or contribution; if you felt that way, i apologize. Rather, im trying to use other information that i have at my disposal to try to sort you because its been a question mark for me all game

[skitter30]

Huh thats a fair point; I'd forgotten about that game

Also now i kinda know what your towngame loons like i think

Also like what youre saying like makes sense and i dont really have super much questions on it? And thats why Im kinda wary cuz thats right in my blindspot and i have a tendency to townread people for making sense

[skitter30]

Idk what do you think about tw's repout? I think thats kinda townie fir him tbh

[skitter30]

Oh, i didnt see that

I kinda think the repout here was at least partially prompted by ruru and idk if he gets that annoyed as scum tbh

[skitter30]

Yeah ok fair

[skitter30]

Not really and he didnt really change my mind on either ruru or enigma

Im kinda townreading the ate and repout tho

I know i have a tendency to townread ate so its not ironclad and its something id want to go back and reread in a few days when the affect wheres off but for now i townread it

Cant really give you a better answer right now until a few days have passed and i can reread it

[skitter30]

I mean it's either genuine or has nothing to do with his feelings about this game

this post is bad.

VOTE: Irrelephant11

why don't you like it?

[skitter30]

the worst has requested replacement

---

Performer replaces the worst. Welcome

goodbye duckling

hello performer!

[skitter30]

Ruru - Repout NAI. Can't say more

As long as we agree to massclaim + lynch.

Though I'm still in favor of no lynch + no massclaim just for tonight

i still don't get why we would want to no-lynch here

==

RR/TW is the scum team

Change my mind.

rr = ruru?

how can you possibly come to the conclusion that they're the scumteam?
maaaaaaaabye traitor v groupscum (not based on reads but purely based on associatives); don't think it's possible for the two fo them to be scum knowing the other's alignment based on that argument

==

kinda like enigma at the bottom of p102

==

I combed through a few ISOs and recalled thinking alonzo seems town, but that's all I got so far. So I'm just going to go on the posts starting from where I replaced in.

which games have you played with alonzo? do you have much success in reading him?

==

Still maybe worried about deep wolf skitter (non-goon fue to hypo inno), but suppose now I think the trick is to look out for apathy late game (from her scum PYP X/Y) .. if she is alive then

ya fair

==

so, for people who haven't played with me and don't trust the skitter inno here is a quick guide to determining my alignment in this game:

i was in this game!

ya basically i agree; i don't think you post this much as scum; you don't spam or hyperpost either; i don't think you post in real time like this

scum!you carefully curates your posts and that's not really happening imo (besides for like a few posts very very very early game)

==

I dunno it feels obvious that it's one of the two pairs

[ruru/enigma, tw/bujaber]

I said earlier but it also feels for some reason like it shouldn't be so obvious
Like I townread the worst and ruru's play for similar reasons (unlikely to be partners with the flipped slot, lots of posting and effort) and scumread them for similar reasons (annoyingly keeping some things to themselves, acknowledging general lack of WIM for most game days)
And I feel like I'm being asked to choose between the two of you and maybe there's a right choice but maybe it's neither...

posts like these don't necessarily make me think you're hard pushing lynches on the scumpool, even if I believed that doing so was clearing

aside i forgot to say earlier that i don't like splitting the game into possible teams like this; it makes it easier to overlook other possible teams and/or confbiases it towards these teams being more likely than others

see mini 1963 for scum using this to great affect

@irrel: how did you arrive at these two potential teams? like say, why aren't you considering enigma/buj?

[skitter30]

aside i forgot to say earlier that i don't like splitting the game into possible teams like this; it makes it easier to overlook other possible teams and/or confbiases it towards these teams seeming more likely than others

ebwap

[skitter30]

@skitter and performer ^ those are my reasons. Basically to increase the odds of a PR getting results one more day. If they do it should be enough to solve the game. And then we'd start tomorrow with an odd number.

i guess i just don't super see the point of no-lynching when there's 8 alive people rn

==

Also ruru is a potnential traitor from early game weirdness, and she’s being more defensive on enigma’s behalf than I think he deserves

i guess i'm not following why you're going to ruru/enigma and not to me/enigma

[skitter30]

can we make a decision wrt massclaim and no-lynch??

i feel like the game is kinda stalling at this point; i think we either need to commit to working on a lynch or on the massclaim

i'm cool with massclaim.

[skitter30]

Alright, I'm up now, working on my thoughts of the last several pages + reads.

is this happening ... ?

[skitter30]

bujaber, part of what i think is bothering me about your play this game is that you seem very very passive?

like you're just kinda around but i don't get major gamesolving vibes from you if that makes sense?

[skitter30]

just claim please.

I vote bujaber > irrel > enigma > alonzo > korina > skitter

i'm fine with this, with ruru between korina and me

[skitter30]

Is there a reason you think I should be traitor-reading you instead? You've both acknowledged you could be wrong about enigma but if one of you is scum with him I'm not townreading ruru nearly as much as I am you

i mean 60 is a meme-rvs post; is there a serious reason why you're traitor-reading her besides for that?

i guess i'm just confused how you got to the conclusion ruru/enigma when it seems to me that skitter/enigma should be a valid assumption to make too from your pov given how loudly i've been objecting to his lynch

also do you think it's likely we have a traitor?

==

I played with Scum!IC Performer in a noobie recently. Perfect town win IIRC =)

do you think you can read him?

==

Fine with mass claim, I prefer ruru later in the claim line.

Can we put tw/performer either before/after me? Something like this?
bujaber > irrel > enigma > performer > alonzo > korina > ruru > skitter

This final list is fine with me, though I would personally switch

enigma and bujabe

r, but also probably at this rate me/buj/enigma should be ignored when it comes to making this order.

Ps I think it’s best if town don’t cc today, or at least until the claim process has finished - we still need to decide if we will lynch or not today. Make an strategic decision on counter claiming, especially if you are investigative, based on other claimed TPRs.

^^ does scum post like this?

this is a good point
I think I'm ready for VOTE: BuJaber

can you explain the progression here?

==

1154 and 1243 area couple examples of questions Bu asks the answers to which don't seem to actually matter to him in any obvious way

yeah this is kinda what i mean by passive and/or by not getting major scumhunting vibes

like his posts feel like they're there just to be there, not to really like solve the game if that makes sense

==

Elephant as soon as I put Alonzo back in my scumpool I would have confirmed to everyone that it was a fake inno. Had to double down on that. Also skitter was the 2nd one hypo-inno'ing Alonzo not tw. Tw just had a TR on him.

Anyway no need for that anymore..

I'm a VT

huh, the one thing that was making me hesitant about mass-claim today was that your hesitance was low-key making me think you might be a pr, but i guess this isn't a thing

==

aside this might be a weird thing to say but given how seriously ruru was pushing hypo-innos my gut tells me that scum might be more into maintaining the appearance that the hypo-inno is a real-inno than, say, town would

this is like a gut/half-formed thought that i'm still kinda trying to figure out why/understand why i think this but i thought i'd just say it

==

And you mentioned skiitter inno on you? As in...she claimed investigative, checked you, and said you were clear? Need to be sure what you're saying - if so, then you should be town.

no, when ruru used 'inno' there, she meant 'skitter is very good at reading me so you should give strong weight to her opinion, almost akin to an inno'

i kinda disagree with this terminology but we already had a discussion about this like 90 pages ago

do you think you can read alonzo?

==

I don't think it's 100% unreasonable from a surface look at their play this game day.

really? i don't see ruru/tw like at all

[skitter30]

because there could be a recruited traitor

[skitter30]

right, and my point is that there's no way for town to know rn if the traitor has been recruited or not

if the traitor has been recruited by a mod in pre-game they're effectively a third mafia goon (unless there's another mod that changes them to a scum pr)

[skitter30]

Ok. Thoughts on alonzo?

tending town

How are you getting there? I'm kinda seeing it, but not fully.

I will make to to RR this whole think over the weekend, RN im not entirely certain of my viewpoint. Have too many townreads.

this post struck me as townie in the moment, although it isn't as strongly in retrospect. i think it's cuz scum can just kinda decide what their viewpoint is, as convenient, and the fact that he admitted to being unsure and that he needs to reconsider kinda indicated to me that he's trying to think about the game and come to actual conclusions and not just going-with-the-flow or doing what's convenient atm

==

Also re: ruru/tw team I agree it doesn't seem likely when thought about in depth, but on a skim "You're scum!!" "No, YOUUUU!!!" "NO YOU oh wait you're town" [the end] makes sense on a surface level as something bold scum might do (which I get the impression both these players are: bold)

i feel like the argument was too protracted to be svs
like i said earlier maaaaaaabe traitor v s but i don't think that was an argument between two people who knew the other's alignments

also i don't think ruru is boldscum and i don't think she's confident enough in her scumgame to have an argument like that in realtime

==

How so? I could see Enigma flipping scum, and I could also see Ruru flipping scum, (mainly based on her most recent posting).

ruru i think is just town and i don't think she's flipping scum here and it's hard for me to read other people as her partner (especially people i think are town!) when i can't really imagine her flipping scum either

==

skitter flashed her raisins

idk what this means, sorry

==

What did you do about it?

you and tw are townier

bujaber and irrel are lower

not because i necessarily scumread them but more because i townread everyone else more

still not super solid on these reads tho

==

Skitter can you tell me more about why you SR'd Irrels preds plz

ejji's nm hammer was bad imo

frank: bad tone; bad votes on a50 and gamma early game resulting from a bad readslist; wagon never really took off; bad reaction to korina telling creature to like play the game (ie calling korina's post scummy when it was hilariously obvtown)

idk just read like 677- 681 and the ensuing convo i had with frank within the next couple of pages through maybe like 807 or so

iirc he disappeared somewhere around thereish

[skitter30]

(don't have enough reason to yet, though I'm getting paranoid on skitter)

do tell

actually i kinda like performer's catchup tonally

[skitter30]

(don't have enough reason to yet, though I'm getting paranoid on skitter)

do tell

actually i kinda like performer's catchup tonally

I'll wait on the performer thing a little longer
I'm getting paranoid of you more the more you say things like "I don't really have any strong scumreads" and "I think I want this lynch but I could be wrong it's really just PoE at this point"
It doesn't help that I remain in your PoE and I know I'm town

Idk. Some games i townread like everyone with like no scumreads, and some ganes i scumread like everyone with like no townreads. This game is one of the former so yeah rn im working on poe to figure out where im wrong as best i can

Also the gane kinda stalled which isnt helping

is anyone townreading korina/vex? If so , why.

Mostly for being incredibly townie in very early game (through about the 600s iirc). When he's less actice that townread wanes tho

[skitter30]

probably voting nm i think

@horror what do you think about the popo/alch connection now?

i think laser is town, and that popo is prob town on associatives. alonzo is also probably town.

sky and horror also but less strongly than the above

basically the main person i'm not townreading in any way is nm

incidentally the last scum was laser

[skitter30]

and i wasn't like actively scumreading nm either, just not townreading him

[skitter30]

i mean as either alignment i wouldn't say something like that without having a specific post in mind that i could pull up as reference if asked

{me}
--
{skitter, korina}
{ruru}
{alonzo} - null
{you, enigma}
{BuJaber}

let's do something crazy like
lynch korina

???

[skitter30]

I'm getting paranoid of you more the more you say things like "I don't really have any strong scumreads" and "I think I want this lynch but I could be wrong it's really just PoE at this point"

@skitter do you have an example of you townreading everyone w/ no scumreads in another game?

mmk that was just a quick BS check because it kinda sounded like BS

I guess I said it because Korina feels like he's trying to live in our blind spots this gameday

and I feel like I'm starting to townread my scumreads a little but not vice versa

; korina feels like the hidden scum if there is one
But maybe this feeling that I'm missing something is just a function of the game stalling

these feel a little strange juxtaposed against each other and maybe a little cogdis-y

==

*sigh*

I feel like its a trap but Im town!roleblocker

I blocked A50 N1 and Enigma last night

ok cool thanks; i'm pretty sure i believe this

blocking a50 matches coming in day2 with a bigscumread on him

[skitter30]

I disagree there's cog-diss there. It's the same feeling of paranoia I had about you that then moved to Korina. I'm not actually scumreading either of you I just feel like BuJ/Performer is a little too easy and am wondering who I got wrong

my point is more that you're telling me you're getting paranoid of me for not having any major scumreads and then proceed to say that your scumreads are all getting townier and you're wondering where you went wrong

==

skitter what do you mean blocking a50 matches with d2 big scumread?

he repped in overnight between day1 and day2, and his first posts therein were somethign along the lines of 'if a50 were still alive i would be majorly scumreading him rn' (a50 died n1)

Skitter fence sits on alot of points here, here Iso is riddled with 'this was kinda meh' That was kinda meh' posts that I'm not sure I see from townSkitter in such frequency

i've been having a lot of trouble with the gamestate day2 and today. i have a lot of people that i'm still not super confident on and idk how to sort them better really

although i do admit that scum!me would absolutely be using town!ruru's craziness to hide behind (see day1 of the last pypx|y) but i imagine i would have nk'd her already; i don't think scum!me can keep a pocket like this going on her this long tbh

==

still not feeling an enigma wagon really

==

skitter's ISO is the kind of ISO that I sort of use when I'm scum - one that tries to not draw too much attention or conflict.

really don't like her 1568 about how she thought the irrel slot was partnering nm, despite irrel slot voting nm.

a) this isn't what my ISO looks like as scum (purely on post count; i'm not nearly as prolific as scum)

b) i think i've entertained conflict (say, for example, i've been objecting to the enigma scumreads this whole time; i'm not nearly this stubborn as scum)

c) i think that vote was a bussing vote; it was a bad vote. why should i not be reading ejji/nm as partners because ejji voted nm?

[skitter30]

But If your ISO is not what your scum meta is like, then I don't see why ruru lined up Korina>skitter>ruru in some sort of meta comparison of people who weren't playing to their meta.

Why would you object an enigma wagon??

she was trying to emphasize that my iso looks nothing like my scum!iso on sheer postcount (ie i don't think that's a scale of korina - scummy, me - middling, ruru - townie; but rather she's puting all three of us as townie for that reason but in varying degrees)

enigma's posts just feel good tonally

and when I replaced in , she suddenly put me as tr.

it's more like the circumstances of tw's rep-out made her re-evaluate your slot, not because you happened to rep in if that makes sense

[skitter30]

vt

[skitter30]

ok so they took one mod; i'd guess it's recruit traitor or daytalk

[skitter30]

I didn't use my ability either night

I don't value creature's life over my own

uhhhhhh

what did you think would happen when you claimed?

[skitter30]

I didn't use my ability either night

I don't value creature's life over my own

ok so this is kinda scummy

but a thought-process i can see town!you having

and you probs die tonight anyways so it's not super worth worrying about imo

[skitter30]

i roll vt an insane amount and this is how i end up in lylo most of the time

[skitter30]

so i'm just going to treat ruru and alonzo as for now town; ruru prob gets nk'd tonight either by play or by protecting alonzo; i'll worry about alonzo after that i think

i'm town

so two scum in {enigma/performer/irrel/bujaber/vex}

going to go here i think for now

VOTE: bujaber

[skitter30]

so, to do:

1. look at original playerlist and see who's most likely to pick the one mod

2. look at what vex argued early game because i dont' remember what his opinion was offhand; only that he believed it strongly; pretty sure he believes in picking all 3 iirc and if that's a thing he probs isn't scum here

3. look at last stack-the-deck and see if town!brass ever said what he'd pick as scum

[skitter30]

4. reread a50 eod1 because if they only picked the one mod they prob weren't pr hunting; i think he was at least partially nk'd for reads; enigma thinks they were pr hunting to +town to him; unless they really fell for his pr softing but he does that literally every game and isn't like actually pr-indicative for him

[skitter30]

The only scum-modifier that was reasonably taken if it is one modifier is JOAT.

i kinda disagree; i think that the only pr i'd take if i was only taking one is recruit traitor

[skitter30]

Also there are a few fourth wall breaking reasons to TR her, like the fact that she, in the mafia thread of pyp x/y implied that she is scum in 2 games. That one and some other game that isn't this. That post was made after this game starts. I can see her fooling us by imitating her town meta, but I don't see her fooling herself or forgetting she's scum in this game.

Her saying she would have killed ruru by now is kinda bs if you ask me because it's only day 3 in a setup with an IC and possible PRs and ruru's play, especially with a strong townread on her would not have justified an NK. But I do absolutely believe that she would not keep ruru alive until endgame if she were scum.

i feel kinda :/ about you using the pyp x|y reasoning to townread me cuz it feels kinda angle-shoot-y. i guess i should have been more careful about that but it's not something i meant to do on purpose

ok, maybe scum!me wouldn't have nk'd her already? i feel like i prob would have n2 but eh maybe i would have done it tonight. def would nk her before endgame; i'd be very nervous about trying to keep the pocket

but i did nk her n1 in pyp x|y first; although tbf that was at least partially motivted by her having first pick in the draft

[skitter30]

Scum! Ruru could easily claim bg safe in the knowledge I can't rb her tonight.

she isn't getting mislynched tho and she's ultimately going to have to explain why she isn't dead if she's in lylo

or if you die

[skitter30]

or maybe daytalk? idk

i feel like scum in most scenarios doesn't want to take a lot of prs

[skitter30]

so, if scum is faking a pr here, they know:

-> there's only two pr's (since we're assuming scum is faking the third claim)

-> one of them is ic

-> there appears to not be a vig or bg

-> and scum!alonzo thinks that someone after him in the list is an unclaimed pr, one of {gc/tracker/rb}

so from his pov he has a 2/3 chance of picking one that isn't the game, which idk for me is kinda risky, because if he's wrong it's an immediate 1v1

i'm going to worry about scum!alonzo after ruru dies and after todays flip - like if we end up with a nk he's very very very likely town and we have a 1v1 to resolve

but for now it's not super relevant imo since he isn't getting lynched or nk'd in the immediate future so i'll figure it out then

[skitter30]

pedit: lol skitter I guess that sort of answers my original question

yeah idk i guess i changed my mind

it would def be traitor or daytalk

[skitter30]

i feel kinda :/ about you using the pyp x|y reasoning to townread me cuz it feels kinda angle-shoot-y. i guess i should have been more careful about that but it's not something i meant to do on purpose

I mean... I brought it up a lot earlier.. this was just for the benefit of performer.

I don't feel great about using it... but like it happened and it's not something you should feel bad about at all because it's not your fault.. it was a private mafia thread and it's pretty unreasonable to expect anyone to consider how it could affect an entirely different game. But like I can't exactly ignore it and I had you as a townread before this just helped relieve any paranoia and help me locktown you.

yeah idk i felt like acknowledging it would be confirming it kinda and i feel like it's a little wrong ethically to have written something in one game that could heavily imply my alignment here so it's bothering me a little bit. again not something i'd do on purpose. like i would maybe do something like 'look at what i did in this past game in a similar scenario and compare it to here' after the fact but like i wouldn't do whatever it was in the first game intentionally planning to cite it in another game when the first game ended.

on a different note i have a theory that scum tend to locktown people or like overstate townreads on them if they think the townie is unlynchable. like i'm thinking of a game where i was never getting mislynched and i then additionally got gunsmith-cleared; someone else got gunsmith-cleared too but i was called locktown by scum while the other guy was theorized to be a mafia doctor. or another game where someone was a friendly neighbor and scum called her mod-confirmed town when she had friendly-neighborized someone else; she wasn't actually mod-confirmed town to him

like kinda like scum know that the townie isn't lynchable so they find something to townread them super strongly, almost out-of-degree for what actually happened

and i'm low-key getting that vibe here with this

[skitter30]

performer's either town or groupscum without a traitor imo because i feel like he doesn't really understand the whole 'recruit traitor' notion

[skitter30]

1 scum died already, the only other 1 who can do an nk already did one on n2....so alonzo blocking enigma = enig town.

sorry, i meant groupscum with a traitor there

like the implicit asssumption here is that there can't be 3 groupscum and that enigma can't be traitor

[skitter30]

i'm pretty sure he can't be a traitor because he'd know that there's so much wrong with that statement (ie that enigma shouldn't be cleared for being rb'd with living group scum)

and if he's groupscum with a traitor i think he'd know that the traitor can be rb'd without confirming alignment either way with living groupscum

and if he's groupscum without a traitor i think he'd know that there are two people who could do the nk, so enigma shouldn't be cleared

maybe the second one i'm a little uncertain of because it's possible he hasn't thought through the implications of there being a traitor but i don't think he's a traitor and i don't think he's groupscum without a traitor

sorry i needed to talk that out to myself

[skitter30]

Role Modifications
During pre-game, mafia have 72 hours to select which (if any) of the modifications they want to their team. A maximum of three modifications may be selected:

- Bulletproof
- Role Cop
- JOAT (1 shot Strongman, 1 shot Ninja)
- Daytalk (passive ability)
- Recruit Traitor as Mafia Goon

if this last option happens there's effectively 3 mafia goons (with the possibility of any of the three getting a pr if they choose them) and no traitor in effect once the game starts

scum know whether or not that's a thing but town doesn't

[skitter30]

1 scum died already, the only other 1 who can do an nk already did one on n2....so alonzo blocking enigma = enig town.

if he was a traitor i think he'd know that traitor!enigma could have been rb'd and that it wouldn't say anything about enigma's alignment

[skitter30]

I think you're being overly gracious and assuming Performer would do/think the same as you
Based on his play so far I don't think you should make that assumption

But whatever we're arguing about whether his scumslip is groupscum or traitorscum do you townread his play at all or

eh fair

i think it's a reasonable conclusion that if he's groupscum there's a traitor given how like he confused he is about this point

his posts are like really guileless tonally and i can like see him working stuff out and it doesn't feel faked to me rn

[skitter30]

is the above supposed to describe his town or scum game?

[skitter30]

smells like skitter thinking moves ahead, whilst claiming the game is stale at other points.

that's kinda just how i play tho; i always think multiple dayphases ahead, as both alignments

you can see that in the scum pt of pick your poison x|y when i had mylo roughly planned out on day4

and i've had pretty much this exact convo before as town (in my second game here)

Subject: Newbie 1797: Space | Endgame

@skitter, if you don't mind, can you give me links to your homesite and completed games as both alignments?

I want to see an example of you thinking with a bunch of contingencies.

You only seem to have completed one game as scum here.

viewtopic.php?p=10285293#p10285293
and here's an example of working through like every possible outcome

[skitter30]

~6/10

not super confident but more confident than i am in anyone else tho

[skitter30]

Ways to discern whether or not Performer is scum:
-He'll mess around, probably in a subtle way

-You get the feeling that he's purposefully being mysterious
-He'll fake confusion

-He'll poke at random posts
-He's brief
-He lurks

the reason I ask is that the bolded are pinging me somewhat:
- you do sound purposefully mysterious with some of your scumreads
- I don't specifically think your confusion about the setup is fake, but it's hard for me to evaluate. part of why I don't want the day to end yet is that I'd like to see what your posting is like

after

you've figured out all the setup stuff or whatever

so I'm wondering whether confidential scumreads are part of your mysterious-town-range

oh i didn't realize that was from his wiki

i wouldn't describe his behavior like that this game much at all

[skitter30]

If you flip town Performer looks a little townier, simply be virtue of being confusing to pair with most of the rest of the playerlist

i dissagree, simply by virtue of the fact that there's now 2 scum that have to be found in 7 other people if bujaber flips green

+ i know i'm town and presumably ruru and alonzo are town and/or will be resolved by nk's

so really from my POV there are 2 scum in {enigma/performer/irrel} if bujaber flips green

==

Why would we lynch a PR? I said that trying to fake-claim to draw away the NK was a bad idea in general, and explained why it was bad. I don't think scum would be that bold to try to fake-claim in the first place.

i kinda disagree in general; two stack-the-decks ago scum fake-claimed rb day1 iirc and coasted to endgame on that

(at least partially because i didn't believe scum would fake-claim; like it's a dumb hting to do imo but people do it anyways apparrently. also because town decided to lol-fake-claim goon cop in mylo and got cc'd by the real goon cop and got mislynched for it; fun times)

i think it's a little bit less likely here because we instituted an order and had the less-townread people claim first

[skitter30]

no i just miscounted somehow

2 scum in {irrel/korina/enigma/performer} from my pov upon a bujaber greenflip

[skitter30]

VOTE: skitter

Do tell

- ruru + alonzo

this is probably a bit indicative of faked reads

I think me not being included in that analysis is indicative of his read on me being faked (ie this is an example of abnormally strong reads, that he's considering you/alonzo as being more likely than me being scum at all)

[skitter30]

what are the odds buj is gonna claim pr next gameday

can you explain why you think this is a thing?

[skitter30]

actually im not really following irrel/ruru's convo on the prior page much at all

[skitter30]

eh it's prob on me; i'm feeling a little sick today and like i'm thinking thru fuzz :/ i'll look at it again like tomorrow maybe

the bujaber thing i'm a little confused about because i feel like we're probs lynching him today

[skitter30]

This series of posts is strikingly like scum agenda. Hard defends enigma, uses the same easy-go-to reason to tr me too (tonally). Wanted tw/me, alonzo, buj, irrel dead at various points of ISO. The posts plain point to that - scum agenda. And what do you know, the ones she wants dead are alive (except for GE), and she’s jumped at the opportunity to kill buj.

Compared to enigma’s ISO, buj is townier. Skitter interactions regarding and with enigma & buj, are bizarre too. Something I’ve been contemplating is why would scum buj vote enigma after I reanalyzed enigma’s scummy ISO with a strong push – that doesn’t make sense given the way buj has posted about enigma on other days. I think it’s enigma & skitter.
enigma said At this stage for scum:
Elephant prime candidate. Alonzo/Buj solid maybes.

Korina – buj & irrel, skitter – buj & who else??, buj – irrel & I if not enigma (I don’t think scum would be this bold to be stating sr on irrel & I of all people since irrel & his predec ejinami have been quite town in their interactions…in fact I think he’s saying this because he had me as a 3rd possibility largely due to my predec tw and irrel’s big case on buj).

After a bit of rereading ISOs, I find it very interesting that korina, skitter, and enigma don't sr one another strongly . In fact, I’ve seen multiple times they tr each other while being ok with other people being lynched.

a) not entirely sure why most of these things are independantly scummy (besides for you reading the two of us as scum pre-flip and seeing associatives)

b) i feel like if i was scum with enigma (and knew he was scum) i would have bussed him for the cred a while ago already (although after seeing how i'm being read after hard-defending him eh maybe i wouldn't. i don't think i could be this stubborn about not-lynching him if i was scumw ith him tho)

c) i'm literally never getting lynched today; i think you'd have more luck pushing enigma tbh

d) "Something I’ve been contemplating is why would scum buj vote enigma after I reanalyzed enigma’s scummy ISO with a strong push – that doesn’t make sense given the way buj has posted about enigma on other days."

why wouldn't scum vote there?

[skitter30]

Those quotes further my case posted.

i think 1133 makes a lot of sense coming from him immediately after that game ended (it was posted hours after that game was declared to be over and after he watched me in the dead pt for like a month and a half)

[skitter30]

@skitter maybe I should have said “what are the odds BuJ PR claims at L-1?”
Probably not very high either way so meh

Agreed that Enigma might be scum, but proooobably not with Enigma based on how oddly and regularly she’s defending him? At least based on the fact that she’s apparently great at scum

@anyone who has me in their scum pile (skitter, BuJ, idk who else) can you please summarize the case? Even if it’s on my preds, I’d like to know what about their play was scummy

i wouldn't defend anyone if i thought it would be put me in a bad spot after they flipped as scum; i'm very good at reading gamestates and tabulating everyone's reads and figuring out what i need to do/say when in order to get the effect that i want (and to get the effect taht i want down the road); like i can capitalize on a bussing vote and make it look very natural and non-bussing-y for a month down the road when peope look back and do vca; i know who my audience is and i track what they think and can cater to that appropriately;

as town idk what they'll flip so i just post what i think

i think ejji's vote on nm was a bussing vote; like he was trying to get on wagon

frank was bad; look at 646 and read the next few pages to get a feel for why i didn't like him

[skitter30]

I'll lynch enigma if i absolutely have to at deadline (didnt realize it was two days from now) to make a lynch happen, but i dont think he's flipping scum tbh

I would much much prefer bujaber

[skitter30]

Not about to rep out because I think it would maybe be unethical

I don't know why this is making me so angry, honestly
Just doesn't feel fair that I'm in everyone's bottom reads without anyone making a scumcase or pointing out scum agenda in any of the things I do
Sorry for somewhat derailing the game I hate when other people get tilted in a way that's game ruin-y

Let's lynch BuJ and then if I'm the next lynch I'm the next lynch, whatever. 20 hours left in this game day

irrel i think i maybe didn't do a good job explaining what i don't like about frank; it's a little more involved than just that bad convo. i didn't mean to make you upset tho, sorry

i don't know if i'll be able to go through this in greater detail before eod but since we'll both presumably be around tomorrow let's talk about it then, if that's ok

[skitter30]

Okay

I won't be mad after the game is over fwiw, I don't hold onto game stuff like that; it's obviously not personal
Yes I would like to hear more about the read then, though

Sounds good; we'll talk about it some more tomorrow

[skitter30]

ruru can you explain that again because i'm not really following what you're trying to say?

[skitter30]

i don't think he's asking to be lynched now? he's asking to be sorted before he gets lynched (in the future) since he feels like he's on the bottom of everyone's scumlists without a case on him

like i don't really think he's expecting/acting like he wants to get lynched today

i also pretty much always immediately read ate as tilted town; that's the kind of thing i need a delay of a few days irl to try to read so i'm not really going to commit either way to that rn

but yeah i mean i kinda agree he obviously isn't being rational!town rn but why are you going to scum over tilted!town?

[skitter30]

People have lined me up as the next lynch regardless of BuJ's flip so my only point

was that if it is ever helpful to flip me I would not stop it and would even prefer it

I was not thinking about PRs' ability to gamesolve, just the fact that I don't want to either *be here* or *replace out*

I should probably get over myself though because at this rate I am going way down in nightkill equity and then when I resist my lynch tomorrow I'll look scummy

So I promise that if I'm here tomorrow I'll be super reasonable again

so i super much empathize with this sentiment but i've seen scum use this to get me townread them :/ (ep in american presidents; part of why i townread him day5).

[skitter30]

UNVOTE:
I'm sorry this is probably a bad choice but I'm townreading that post

not super following why that was a townie post tbh

[skitter30]

so i was looking through anti's (admittedly short) iso and i noticed that he was kinda protecting sky (now performer)

more interestingly he was chainsawing sky by attacking a50 when a50 called her a traitor

he also scumread a50 for finding mwnn (not_mafia) scummy for being on vla

so overall i think this is slightly +scum for performer

i haven't gone through bujaber's iso yet

[skitter30]

both bujaber + antihero defending sky on that basis is a little strange tho

ruru if you were scum and took only one mod, what would you take?

[skitter30]

sky's behavior doesn't make much sense as recruited traitor tho?

[skitter30]

i feel like recruit traitor tbh

[skitter30]

like i take daytalk nearly always but i don't think that pair does

[skitter30]

it's possible that one of them was the traitor to begin with and got recruited and weren't even involved in that decision tho

[skitter30]

also bujaber trying to get enigma lynched is +town to enigma imo

[skitter30]

Now these were the two slots that got to decide on the mods, keeping in mind that they do/did not know who the traitor is/was pregame.

Why would they give scum PR mods to the traitor rather than themselves? BP/JOAT/RC is useless for traitor as a single mod

.

we technically could have lynched a recruited traitor; they flip as mafia goon

i think the bolded is lowkey a townslip because he doesn't seem to know how giving out mods work (ie who gets the mods amongst goons is randomized; scum don't get to choose)

==

I've detailed why I think tw/sky make sense as the traitor to BuJ's groupscum, & Performer is literally playing to his scum meta imo

a couple of things:

a) one thing that i find lowkey scummy is that i kinda feel like all day yesterday you were building tw/bujaber upon a bujaber redflip

b) can you elaborate on performer's scum meta? when ruru pulled that quote from his wiki i was like ... that doesn't describe his behavior here at all

i'm going to explain the frank scumread in a bit more detail now in a new post, but another thing that i think is kinda scummy that you did was unvoting bujaber a little bit before deadline and asking for other possible lynches

[skitter30]

VOTE COUNT 1.28

Almost50 (0):

HeWhoSwims (1):

Almost50

the worst (1):

Not_Mafia

ruru (0):

BuJaber (0):

Not_Mafia (7):

the worst, ruru, skitter30, Vex Vience, Creature, Enigma, ejjinami

LYNCH

Enigma (0):

ejjinami (0):

Creature (0):

Gamma Emerald (2):

HeWhoSwims, BuJaber

skitter30 (0):

Vex Vience (0):

Not Voting (1):

Gamma Emerald

With

12

alive, it takes

7

to lynch.
Day 1 ends in (expired on 2018-09-14 16:30:00)

Other

:
- skitter30 V/LA Fridays and Saturdays
- HeWhoSwims still needs to be replaced

also everyone except alonzo who was offwagon has flipped already so if we assume town!alonzo not_mafia def got bussed here

[skitter30]

reasons why i don't like frank:

-> 416 - readslist is kinda meh (townleaning anti/bujaber, waaaaay too many nullreads at that stage); gamma vote is kinda questionable given readslist

-> 464 - vote on a50 there didn't make sense like at all; it never got explained even tho i tried to get clarification like three times

-> tone was bad adn kinda defensive (484)

-> 648 - still don't know how he can possibly think it's anti-town for vex to tell lurking!ic!creature to like actually play the game (he also misrepped vex there by equating 'this is all i have time to post now; i'll continue later' with 'using all my mafia time for the forseeable future making that post to creature')

-> vex said it was kinda scummy for frank to think his creature post is antitown and also said frank was scummy for not using his time to refine his readslist; frank only responded to the latter point of vex's argument- i personally don't think the latter point is inherently scummy but i think it's kinda scummy to ignore the former point (which is more important imo) by only responding to the latter

(i'm a little tired and i feel like i worded these last two points badly; lmk if you need me to explain them again; i worded the above point better in 677)

-> i dislike that this argument with vex resulted in frank dropping vex to a nullread (672) - it didn't make much sense to me for frank to have vex as a nullread there - imo he either should think vex is wrong!tunneling!town or scum fabricating a read on him; i'm not sure how he can end up with such a neutral read on him there (807)

[skitter30]

a) okay but this is only scummy if I'm wrong

b) sure, in another post

c) That's fair, and in retrospect that actually makes a lot of sense, but I honestly did townread that post from BuJ, because h was giving advice for after his flip, which seemed townier than, say, a last second push for a mislynch. I don't remember calling for another lynch though? Like I said I preferred Performer but I didn't actually call out to anyone to change their votes and I turned it back toward BuJ pretty fast. idk this is wifomy for me to talk about I feel so I'll leave it to you to figure out

a) fair enough :p

(the thing is that i think you're wrong lol)

c) i felt that post from bujaber was kinda cursory and lip-service-y, like he knows that's a thing that town does when they're getting lynched if that makes sense

[skitter30]

I'm scumreading Performer more than I am BuJaber
But ehhh it's probably a bad idea to move a wagon this late in the game day?

Yes it's a bad idea
okay
VOTE: BuJaber

^^^^ this is what i'm talking about wrt asking to move other lynches

but reading it again i think i may have read it wrong and that you didn't seriously mean it? especially since you went right back on the bujaber vote like seconds later

[skitter30]

The only thing we know now that we didn't know before the game started is that creature is IC and therefore scum didn't pick 0 powers, they picked at least 1.

False assumption (Coming from BuJ I'd say it might be a Town slip, but don't quote me on that just yet.)

Town start with 2 PRs, then gain an additional one for every modification the scum pick.

This means we have at least one other TPR in addition to Creature if the scum team is 2 Goons + a Traitor with no daychat. If they picked one modification then we have 2 more TPRs in addition to Creature. If they picked two modification we have 4 TPRs in total, and if they picked 3 modofication (maxed out) we would have FIVE TPRs.

so i was looking at the tail-end of a50's iso and found this post

it looks like bujaber thinks here that town started at 0 powers and they get one pr for each mod scum take. and he says we know that scum picked at least one since creature is an ic

he's wrong at town starting at 0 powers but i think this points to him knowing that scum picked at least one (massclaim seems to indicate exactly one) which leads me to believe both pr claims are real (i mean i thought that already but this is just another piece of information pointing to that)

[skitter30]

Alonzo - who did you target?

Who did you target?

*shrug*

I interpreted this as a guilty and could see performer doing the same

anyway let's not lynch anyone until we get a mod answer on happily ever after

i also thought alonzo was indicating that he blocked performer tbh

[skitter30]

If you can prove mechanically that town always wins this with me dead, and if you'll hear me out on Performer before I go, I'm still fine with that.

I have a long draft regarding Performer but I have to go afk so I'll post it & more tomorrow

you feel a little bit survivalistic to me :/

[skitter30]

ok i read through your performer walls and just kinda rambling a bit

and i guess the difference between how you and i view performer is that i don't really think his confusion is faked
like i've consistently gotten the vibe that he didn't always understand things - like the setup for instance

i do agree with you that both anti and bujaber and cj were all slightly townreading sky on some varient of trolling/too scummy to be scum; this is one thing that's making me a little hesitant on the slot

Calls both flipped goons "friend" in two consecutive posts. Pretty subtle traitor callout

i mean he's called me friend i'm pretty sure too hwile i was town

yeah ok reading through your buj/tw interactions i kinda see that too actually. i think i'm going to want to go through them myself to check that you aren't bringing them up out of context but i don't think that's going to happen today; maybe some point over the weekend. i think the quotes you pulled do look a bit svs; i didn't remember seeing that thread really while it was happenig

huh and 1745 does maybe look like a slip that he knows there's a traitor (but again that would imply anti/mwnn took daytalk which i'm a little dubious about)

ok i'm willing to entertain the idea of bujaber/tw but basically i need to do the research myself if htat makes sense to really get a feel for how likely it is

Also I just remembered skitter posted her scumcase on my slot and I'd like to respond to it but besides the exhaustion of writing the above post I need to get off MS for a few hours so idk how likely it is that will happen
Given Performer probably gets lynched after me if I get lynched I'm fine with it

take your time i'm not super expecting a response honestly; it's not like you can defend his actions really; i'm more just explaining where the scumread came from

(aside do you do/follow survivor edgic? that's the main context i've seen 'ott' in and i saw you have a survivor thread in mishmash )

p-edit yeah i read it; it took me a bit + i had to go do somethign else irl

[skitter30]

oh yeah i read that too and i wasn't sure what theat meant

like i read it a few times and i'm not following the logic

[skitter30]

like i said i hadn't really been paying much attention to that idea so i wasn't really looking out for evidence that could point to/away from that theory and i need to skim some isos

[skitter30]

i think ruru uses 'plays suboptimally' and 'gamethrew' almost interchangeably

[skitter30]

like i said i hadn't really been paying much attention to that idea so i wasn't really looking out for evidence that could point to/away from that theory and i need to skim some isos

So I think this is why I’ve been so angry
Feels like every good point I make is handwaved as “yeah but your slot has been scum all game, so”
And then if someone else says it it can be a point

Whatever

i think this is a little unfair - i read everything you had to say and said i can understand your case and that i'd read through the isos when i had a chance over the weekend. it didn't 'become a point' just because ruru said it

==

I’m real confused why anyone thinks I would have holstered my shot as scum last night but I don’t care to engage with ruru much at all anymore and I probably still win by dying so do whatever

if your'e scum and someone else got rb'd you can frame them; i'm not entirely following why it you think it should be obvious that scum!you wouldn't have shot last night?

==

also the fact that you and skitter are townreading his policy-worthy ate is +++ for me to go allin on pushing irrel's lynch today

I'd really prefer to skip that part and just lynch him?

also performer's pred ate'd better if you want to townread ate, it's just not in the front of your mind

90% of irrel's ate is basically complaining that the game isn't fair in ways that could easily apply to either alignment

ate really really works on me
i need like several irl days distance in order to read it like unbiasedly
and yeah it's making me not want to lynch him today

i'm not entirely sure that it matters - from my pov lynching through {irrel/performer/enigma} wins the game nearly always and i'm like not dying before like n6 at this rate and i can make sure that happens

==

@korina: i know that scum!you is very wary about posting because you're worried about outing your partners
does scum!you's posting habits change when you're last scum?

[skitter30]

idk was just wondering if your posting would change discernably

also wondering if i'm letting you coast cuz of an early townread from literally weeks ago

[skitter30]

@irrel

i'm still tending towards you
but i feel like i owe you the courtesy of checking the bujaber/tw theory first

i just have not been super motivated to reread their isos cuz they're both rather long
but this is a thing i'm going to try to do at some point in the hopefully nearish future

[skitter30]

ok, assorted thoughts on bujaber:

=> think +town to engima that he came in and tried to push him

=> not sure what to think of the fact that literally all flipped scum slots (cj, anti, buj) were townreading sky

=> bujaber came in townreading a50 but kept his vote on him for a fairly long while. and had frank in his lowest tier of reads but didn't vote him (closest was 'you're at l2 so consider this a vote')

=> agian 1456 feels very defensive of sky

=> hmmm being a little worried that ruru may have been partner reading tw/nm - 1529

=> also pushed back against ruru saying tw may have bussed cj 1655

=> rereading 1745 and the aftermath i do think he may have slipped and indicated that there's a traitor. the last paragraph in that post still doesn't make sense to me tbh. i feel like there may have been a perspective slip in that convo but i'm not sure what it is because for the life of me i can't understand his argument

=> 1831 low-key points to alonzo town imo

=> actually now that i think about it, irrel pointing out bujaber's traitorslip thing probably doens't happen if they are partners. i think that only *maybe* happens if irrel is traitor to scum!bujaber and is signalling. but the actual slip had happened a bit before irrel repped in and bujaber seemed kinda embarrassed/surprised that he said that. although bujaber immediately townreading irrel maybe makes sense in a traitor/scum context

=> not sure if tw busses cj if tw is traitor?

=> i feel like scum is a little more likely to hypo-inno thier parnter 2254 - gives them an excuse to 'townread' them until we claim the gooncop thing . +scum to tw a bit

=> i don't think irrel + bujaber sound much like partners at daystart day3 tbh

=> bujaber strongly wanting no-lynch + no-mass-claim to give prs another night may indicate that he thought that the prs were not really a threat to them? not sure. that would point to a very highly townread partner; someone like korina maybe

i'm a little wary that we're treating this game on lock and and that we might just be overlooking korina tbh (this is like a paranoia type read; my read on korina hasn't really changed tbh; maybe i should check what anit/cj had to say about korina)

ok from bujaber's iso i think performer is a slightly more likely partner than irrel

i actually think bujaber + korina makes a certain amount of sense oddly enough because of just how strongly he was townreading him and like never interacted with him or questioned the read at all whatsoever

i still have to do tw but his iso is pretty big too sp won't happen till later or tomorrow or something

[skitter30]

ok i've reskimmed tw's iso

i'm not going to write extensive notes because his iso is long, but takeaways:

-> hard townread anti upon replace-in

-> has a weird jokey/convivial tone/interactions with bujaber; had a semi-scumread on bujaber day3 but didn't really do anything about it; kept swinging back to enigma

-> pushed like all the mislynch options (gamma + enigma + alonzo), and besides for the obvious cj read, his reads were generally quite bad

-> some amount of ate throughout (like to get me to back off scumreading him, which worked a few times)

-> there's also shading townread players a lot (especially wrt korina i'm noticing)

-> gamma hammer at the end of day2 was atrocious tbh

-> tilt at the end still feels kinda real to me tbh

[skitter30]

i'm really bad with ate :/