Open 735: Watchmen Wanted - Game Over!


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Post Post #1525 (ISO) » Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:56 am

Post by Keyser Söze »

In post 1510, Nauci wrote:VOTE: Keyser Söze
VOTE: Keyser Söze
VOTE: Keyser Söze
VOTE: Keyser Söze
VOTE: Keyser Söze
VOTE: Keyser Söze
VOTE: Keyser Söze
VOTE: Keyser Söze
VOTE: Keyser Söze
- "scum-making-town-sounding-posts POV" - those early questions I asked were NAI, both town and scum can quite easily ask those game mechanic questions. No town points, no scum points should be awarded.

- "The lurker question is a classic topic to look productive without being necessarily productive" - I wanted us to discuss those games on the first couple pages only, before we broke into serious scum hunting mode.

- "Keyser’s 42 seems very paranoid". I usually associate healthy paranoia as town.

- "non-cohesive mindset" - during early game when I am forming early D1 reads this is to be expected. I will never force out reads.

- "so defensive" - both town and scum can be defensive.

- "need to check if town Keyser sheeps like this" - I have the town humility to sheep, yes, and admit when I am wrong.

- "Like Keyser was unbelievably careful to not interact with Volxen while Volxen was non stop chain sawing" - Volxen was defending me while the rest of the playerslist scum read me because he knew I was town. It was the sole town read they expressed and built their attacks around it. I voted Volxen because I did not trust him. His ISO was full of bad distancing.

- "Giving himself credit for not moving off wagon day 2 was just open wolfing" - no it's fact. I opposed the sesq counter wagon. I think my perception of D1 was accurate in regard wagon dynamics.

- "confidently assigning motivations to volxen’s posts" - it is called post-flip analysis (NAI)

-"keyser why does that “townie who towned in Townville” bit sound so… condescending?" - my phrase is NAI. It is not scummy.

-"it's really bizarre for you to say "D2, your slot."" - NAI. It's only a description.

-"massive contrast in his POV/attitude/behavior/" - attitude is NAI. In regard POV and behaviour: you have a limited experience with my town/scum meta.

- "constantly defensive" - when someone attacks me for poor reasons I will defend myself.

- "hyper aware of how others viewed his slot in a way that agitated him" - townies can be frustrated/agitated too.

- "make fewer posts analyzing others" - I think I have provided satisfactory analysis this game, defended my town reads and voted my scum reads accordingly.

- "it was disappointingly shallow" - town players can make "shallow" analysis, but it can still be proven right. Scum are more likely to create arguments that town would more easily sheep and be manipulated to follow.

- "Keyser misrepresenting my comment to him" - not misrepped. My point still stands. Point to me the scum case/ alignment indicative posts that I have failed to react to. I have aimed to talk about everyone in this game.

- "I really can't see why town Keyser would demand that I convince him to return to Toranga/Dunnstral" - because they began D2 as my PoE scum reads.

-"it'd be really awkward if he switched to sesq without really really good grounds" - I did not support the Sesq wagon and tried to convince Irrelephant not to join it either.

-"makes LAMIST posts as scum" - I get accused of being LAMIST as town a lot too.

- "There's SO much self meta in Scum Keyser games" - both as town and scum. It's my last resort defence if logic isn't working.

- "Not to mention all the defensive or LAMIST posts almost to the point of gaslighting and misrepping" - these are staplemarks of town-Keyser too, but my reads are usually on point.

- "every other post is defensive." - defensive IS NOT PURELY SCUMMY for me or for a lot of players. If I see shit, I will call it out. It's simple work for town-keyser, and simple work for scum-keyser.

- "Oh and being suspicious of anyone who scumreads him even a little" - OMGUS is natural. It's the development of the read which is more alignment indicative for me.

-"do you always quote other people's scum cases of you as scum in attempts to undermine them" - it's an NAI tactic. I do want to create focus on the reasons though, regardless of alignment. If it's a bad scum-case, I'm gonna challenge it.

-"use the term "teammate"" - I call my town teammates as teammates. This is NOT me referring to my scum teammates. Same word, different usage.

- "beautiful scum game that's totally counter to site meta" - TW called me a sheep in wolves clothing, which made me laugh, but does describe my town meta quite beautifully. Again, just because I don't fit into the mafiascum profile of what town should be/should look like doesn't mean I'm scum.

- "Spends tons of time being defensive" - yep, I love correcting what I believe is unfair/lies.

- "OMGUS votes a lot" - I love real time one vs one combat. It helps me sort players. again, don't focus on the vote, but the nature/development of my read of the player I voted.

- "shades people with extremely skilled manipulation and questioning" - this is me trying to get under the skin of players and getting the info I want.

- "that condescending/accusatory/defensive tone just constantly agitated me" - this is NAI. Why can't town-keyser be agitated if they think they have been wronged/miss-repped?

- "I didn't react to ANY of his American Presidents posts this way" - logical fallacy. Presidents game is not the parameter of my town-range.

- "like when you post a condescending gaslighty defensive comment at me right before I was about to point out that scum-you does this" this stinks of confirm bias.

- "he uses way more :emoticons: and formatting I think" - emoticons and formatting are NAI for me. Again, this stinks of confirm bias. You're getting very lazy and reachy, it must be very late.

- "you're willing to do a total 180 for no reason" - town can do 180's. If you don't understand my frustration with the Dunstrall slot you haven't really understood my stance on him at all.

- "no one can change tone and attitude" - logical fallacy: just because you haven't seen it happen in your experience doesn't make it fact. From my personal experience, change in tone and attitude is NAI. People can change. People could be going through things in their personal life that effects their tone/attitude/aura/presence.

- "half of your posts were defensive to the point of manipulation." - I've had to put up with a lot of accusations this game. Hence, the heightened defensive disposition. Town can manipulate too btw. It's not 'manipulation' though... it's 'convincing'.
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Post Post #1526 (ISO) » Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:56 am

Post by Eragon »

In post 116, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 111, Ausuka wrote:
Spoiler: Keyser Söze
looks to be genuinely scumhunting? I guess I could see how he's being defensive but I don't think it's scummy to be defensive tbh. Also I kinda get where he's coming from w/ Reundo. I think he's wrong about 2.718 but like when somebody comes into the thread like that with a case you don't understand at all it's understandable that you would vote for that person.
I think you're the first person to understand my defensive disposition this game. Well done. Can I jump in your pocket? :giggle:
In post 111, Ausuka wrote:
Spoiler: Irrelephant11
I think I kinda understand where his tr on nsg is coming from in that she was being gamesolvy? In general I find his posts as, uh, "adequate" more than anything else. I don't exactly scumread his approach but it's also not that towny and I don't get why he's fixated on Dunnstral specifically; what thoughts are people supposed to have about Dunnstral considering he's only made one mechanic-related post back in RVS?
If Dunnstral flips red I would actually wanna put Irrelephant under closer inspection (i.e ill-timed/ill-formed distancing attempt). Or vice versa. I've enjoyed talking to Irrelephant11 so he's on the green side of null so far.
In post 111, Ausuka wrote:
Spoiler: Reundo
I kinda dislike his entrance. Like, with Sesq and Keyser, I can see both sides - I don't think keyser's opening was LAMIST but I can totally see how somebody could see it that way. I almost feel like he's trying to push Keyser? but holding back for some reason. I don't see how it's really supposed to be scum-indicative for someone to dislike their posts being portrayed as lamist. The whole scum daychat thing appears to be kinda irrelevant? Like, I don't see the argument that Keyser as scum for some reason uses scum daychat as an example of something NAI whereas town!Keyser acknowledges it's NAI and moves on. What could the scum motivation ever be for lying in such an insignificant way? I also don't get why it's scummy to say "this is NAI" when someone pushes you for things you think are NAI. I also don't see how it's scum motivated to stop talking about his sr on Sesq as scum; I don't think scum would really mind repeating the same thing over and over at all? And why does scum!keyser pretend to forget about hypoclaiming? Like I might just be being stupid but I don't understand this at all.
Yup yup yup. Wouldn't mind some more pressure on Reundo. I don't know what and why Reundo is arguing. I realise I'm an easy player to provoke, but he's got to start looking at the whole playerlist, and be less fixated on this
scum-day-chat/"defensive"/hypoclaiming/"driving discussion away"
scum theory non-sense. It's arguing over fluff which is concerning. Even scum-me would be laughing at his scum case on me.
scrolling through the ISO of dunn i saw this.

Keyser starts off with a SR of Dunn by around post 100, and continues it through D2 until tora gives him an out by saying "Dunn could be town because WIFOM"

add this to how keyser said he would bus and save himself the trouble :igmeou:


Dunn Case

NAI, but I notice the vote on Sesq and it feels opportunistic in some ways.
“I'd rather be weird than scummy” who doesn’t want to be scummy at all? scum. So him saying id rather be weird over being scummy is almost a scumtell. And before anyone says Town doesnt want to be scummy either, Its a lot worse for scum to be scummy than town to be scummy, because if a town gets lynched they at least still have their reads and could solve the game before they die.
I think its less he doesnt agree with the vote than he’s confused because you voted sesq for no reason.
explains the vote, but basically just gives the reasoning “they’re focused on keyser” when its been 5 posts for them and 160 total posts. Theres plenty of time.
feels like a sarcastic shade of NSG
NANI?!
calls Volx towny but nothing on it, so could be buddies there.
Relating back to the shade of NSG o.0
defends volxen in a defensible way(that is to say, its a valid defense) but it still defends the huge momentum on volxen and lowers the momentum a bit.
YOU
Whats the problem with Sesq question dodging? Or are you just trying to sweep momentum off volxen still?
Valid read, albeit slightly opportunistic if thats the only reason for the read.
why arent you? The only reason you had given was the very beginning and weak. So why are you focusing on that?
im not sure if I can see this as anything but a scumslip. He called out volxen as scum and shaded me while doing it, then said “while not talking in PT” implying scum dont have daytalk, which is not an easy conclusion. So yes. This is a scumslip.
then also shades huntress.
finally appears outta nowhere and votes Asuka without reasoning. He says he doesnt like wagon uildup without disccusion, but he didnt give discussion
explains it 70 posts later, and its just a vote
sounds like annoyed scum. You had no problem posting D1 it seemed.
I dont see why they cant bring it up? Just because you dont post doesnt mean you HAVENT posted and that people cant make reads on you.
Shade
??? Shade or just over-defensive?
dense and detached.
you gotta love self Meta amirite?
[pst]1338[/post]Popular except irrelephant, so does Keyser call him out on this? no.
you dont believe their push? What? votes.
calls me detached. The sick irony.
I vote him, and then he direct OMGUS’s me directly after, and only 2 posts between his NSG vote. Also, hes never said anything about me all game except for shade with volxen saying welcome
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Post Post #1527 (ISO) » Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:57 am

Post by Eragon »

In post 1467, Nauci wrote:I don't know if it's alignment indicative that Eragon has the same psyduck.mp4 reaction to it that I did
psyduck 0.0?

where psyduck?

im quite... confused :3


ok got to get to school kbye
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Post Post #1528 (ISO) » Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:07 am

Post by Keyser Söze »

Yes, began D2 scum reading Dunnstral, but then WIFOM malware infected my processes, making it very difficult for me to see Dunn as scum playing to any wincon.

Now I just want to flip Dunnstral and go from there really.
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Post Post #1529 (ISO) » Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:12 am

Post by Keyser Söze »

‘Sometimes it's the journey that teaches you a lot about your destination’
- Drake
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Post Post #1530 (ISO) » Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:13 am

Post by Flicker »

Votecount 2.25

Dunnstral (4)
- northsidegal , Eragon , Toranaga , Keyser Söze
Eragon (3)
- Irrelephant11 , the worst , Dunnstral
Keyser Söze (1)
- Nauci
Ausuka (1)
- Reundo

Not voting: Ausuka

The deadline for Day 2 is 2:17 pm CT on Thursday, September 20, in (expired on 2018-09-20 15:17:24).
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Post Post #1531 (ISO) » Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:27 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

In post 1496, Keyser Söze wrote:I’ll take it as a compliment you are scum reading me.

If Eragon is actually town who is trapped in confirmation bias / suffocating paranoia, so be it.

All my actions (even though innocent and NAI) are being scum read by Eragon and Nauci - but I’m ok with that. I like the content and rationale behind Nauci’s other reads though. If she opposes the Eragon lynch strongly there’s only one way to go and end today:

Dunn’s flip
. the ultimate info lynch for D2. If he flips town, I’ll probably need to replace out though.
Don't replace out <3
in fact you've made this game very fun for me please be in more games I'm in
In post 1498, Toranaga wrote:
In post 1492, Nauci wrote:
In post 1446, Toranaga wrote:
In post 1432, Eragon wrote:
In post 1410, Toranaga wrote:
In post 461, the worst wrote:I'm not the watcher.... I'm a duckling



duh
I'm impressed you weren't NKed n1 with the amount of TMI posting that volxen was scum at that EOD
why would he be killed for giving off TMI??

isnt TMI bad?
knowing volxen is scum requires one to be the watcher, or scum.
are

are you a time traveler
he claimed watcher, remember?

so if you're the watcher you might behave like TW
I can't decide if this is a smart note about tw being scum or a dumb outing of our only PR
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Post Post #1532 (ISO) » Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:27 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

So my browser crashed while I was collecting ["Q+]'s
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Post Post #1533 (ISO) » Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:28 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

long story short I don't want a Keyser lynch I still kinda want an Eragon lynch and I feel like it's gonna be a dunnstral lynch at this rate which thanks to tora I am much less interested in atm
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Post Post #1534 (ISO) » Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:38 am

Post by northsidegal »

i'm fine with either a dunnstral lynch or an eragon lynch

i should note that i have't really put in much effort to read eragon but one thing i do remember (that the ducky pointed out, i think) was an apparent sudden switch to wanting dunnstral lynched right as a wagon on him was about to form, which seems pretty scum indicative
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Post Post #1535 (ISO) » Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:39 am

Post by northsidegal »

In post 1469, Nauci wrote:this may not be NSG at her full town power
hahaha, you make me sound like some kind or final boss of a video game or something
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Post Post #1536 (ISO) » Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:47 am

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probably coming around to nauci town
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Post Post #1537 (ISO) » Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:52 am

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oh what volxen claimed watcher and got lynched anyways?

genuinely was not aware of this. i should probably reread that section of the game. i guess i townread tw a little less from what i've read (going back to my thing about the associatives and such). there wasn't really any "theater" between the two but tw certainly seemed quite confident in volxen flipping scum. not sure right now how to evaluate that.
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Post Post #1538 (ISO) » Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:18 am

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he was wolfy and didn't read TPR at all then claimed TPR at the exact moment I expected scum to fakeclaim and like
┐(´д`)┌
I like volxen
I was drunk
hard soulread scum
you'll work it out
who's scum? i haven't read up yet but like, it's me
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Post Post #1539 (ISO) » Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:21 am

Post by the worst »

lynch Eragon not Dunn
the fuck
who's scum? i haven't read up yet but like, it's me
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Post Post #1540 (ISO) » Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:21 am

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can someone sum up Nauci vs Keyser in a series of haikus for me? I don't think I can parse it rn
who's scum? i haven't read up yet but like, it's me
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Post Post #1541 (ISO) » Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:22 am

Post by Ausuka »

VOTE: eragon
No matter what happens, I'll be right there with you.
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Post Post #1542 (ISO) » Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:28 am

Post by Eragon »

In post 1534, northsidegal wrote:i'm fine with either a dunnstral lynch or an eragon lynch

i should note that i have't really put in much effort to read eragon but one thing i do remember (that the ducky pointed out, i think) was an apparent sudden switch to wanting dunnstral lynched right as a wagon on him was about to form, which seems pretty scum indicative
I’ve wanted a Dunn lynch p.much the whole day...
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Post Post #1543 (ISO) » Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:30 am

Post by Eragon »

In post 1537, northsidegal wrote:oh what volxen claimed watcher and got lynched anyways?

genuinely was not aware of this. i should probably reread that section of the game. i guess i townread tw a little less from what i've read (going back to my thing about the associatives and such). there wasn't really any "theater" between the two but tw certainly seemed quite confident in volxen flipping scum. not sure right now how to evaluate that.
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Post Post #1544 (ISO) » Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:30 am

Post by Eragon »

In post 1539, the worst wrote:lynch Eragon not Dunn
the fuck
The fuck indeed
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Post Post #1545 (ISO) » Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:30 am

Post by Eragon »

In post 1541, Ausuka wrote:VOTE: eragon
What is
your
reasoning for SR’ing me?
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Post Post #1546 (ISO) » Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:31 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

Nauci thinks Keyser
Is scummy in many ways
Like she's really sure

She contrasts this game
With American Presidents
(Where she had inno)

The comparison
Is murky at best I think
Though very thorough

I don't think Keyser
Is so obviously scum
But I could be wrong
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Post Post #1547 (ISO) » Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:32 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

these competing wagons are fascinating
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Post Post #1548 (ISO) » Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:34 am

Post by Eragon »

@nauci

I agree with you on Keyser being scum, but I feel more strongly about Dunn being scum, and it seems you think Dunn might be scum too?
Vote Dunn today, we lynch scum, and then tommorow you can push Keyser and we can sort that out
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Post Post #1549 (ISO) » Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:39 am

Post by Ausuka »

In post 1545, Eragon wrote:
In post 1541, Ausuka wrote:VOTE: eragon
What is
your
reasoning for SR’ing me?
your Dunn/Keyser team is really :v and your play just kind of feels slimy. like you clearly went into your case with the intent that Dunnstral should come out looking worse than he did before it and I don't at all get where your high confidence in every read comes from.

also I don't think you've wanted Dunn lynched for the entire day. You wanted me dead p much that entire time.

It's kind of late so sorry if this doesn't make sense, it makes sense in my head.
No matter what happens, I'll be right there with you.
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