Mini 2032: Children of Hurin Mafia - Game Over

[snuggly quackdrew 39]

Ive read everything and still dislike maria, nero and faqt
But yeah, notknown's l-1 was obvscum

VOTE: gamma

Though this is theorycrafting more than anything, this has been repeated several times by more than just you and I don't fully understand the logic here. You think the last 2 votes on an early wagon for the scum RB are both scum votes? There is likely one scum on that wagon and one off IMHO but I would venture a guess that the scum is more likely in the middle of that group - not the 2nd to last after pig self hammers.

Nah, not when that scum is RB and it’s only D1. What scumteam hardbuses their roleblocker night 1, unless their lynching is almost inevitable. This makes no sense.

[snuggly quackdrew 39]

What the hell is ellitell?

Ellitell (2012): People who are active in all games save one are scum in said game.

I second frozen's opinion of that idea. I do not find activity a tell one way or another - particularly if it is compared to outside games.

Why assume that scum is going to be less active? This seems to be a common theme here on this site and is nonsensical to me. There is no reason that a scum would avoid being active unless they were trying to lurk a wagon away and even then site wide activity would really not be relevant in that case.

I don’t think that’s what Tor was saying at all. He was saying that “ellitelles” aren’t fair and should be disallowed, not that they’re necessarily irrelevant.

I agree with him btw. I wouldn’t lynch based on just that anyway.

You could conceivably be lowposting in a game because you dislike it for whatever reason. I actually have had my posting activity compared with different sites!

[snuggly quackdrew 39]

Why assume that scum is going to be less active? This seems to be a common theme here on this site and is nonsensical to me. There is no reason that a scum would avoid being active unless they were trying to lurk a wagon away and even then site wide activity would really not be relevant in that case.

because you can post your genuine thoughts as town, while as scum you need to "think" of what to post. You can post your SRs naturally as town, but as scum you need to consume the effort to fabricate them. You do not know much as town and thus have nothing to hide, but as scum you do have knowledge and if you post more you could slip one way or the other.

You arguing against the ellitell as a whole is like you arguing against the amished tell as a whole, or virtually any other tell. But you can feel free to disregard it. I simply don't.

As for the D1 lynch wagon: Check this game out. It's a recent one. Basically Toranga was guiltied by BuJaber at the start of D2. We decided to go for his "unknown" partner instead. I figured it was Poseidon and Wh4t sheeped me (L-2). Toranaga tried to be smart by putting his p @L-1 to make us second guess our read, and Poseidon instantly hammered himself!

I could point you to other games where it's a bit more complicated than this, but it boils down to scum do self-hammer after seeing their p put them to L-1

That is a fair point. Scum usually takes a lot more time and planning in making their posts.

[Aristophanes]

VC will come in a couple hours.

Still searching for a replacement for Perniscious Parrot.

[snuggly quackdrew 39]

Wisdom replaces CreativeMod1

NM, found it.

Parrot and their replacement - likely a non-factor anyway.

[snuggly quackdrew 39]

Creature threw suspicion at 3 people, FA_QT, Wisdom and Kokichi - not Gamma.

I feel pretty good about Kokichi being town based on his ISO, so I think FA_QT may be whiteknighting NK/Gamma because they actually have TMI about them being town and because they actually know that the Pork wagon was alltown.

So based on both FA_QT’s hard defense of NK/Gamma - combined with Creature claiming a guilty on probably one of FA_QT, Wisdom, Kokichi, I’d say FA_QT and Wisdom are probably scum.

Kokichi has a number of posts that seem unlikely to come from scum.

At any rate, FA_QT is trying way too hard to defend NK/Gamma Pork wagon vote.

So, unless Creature has a guilty on one of the other two, my vote is staying on FA_QT.

[snuggly quackdrew 39]

NM, Kokichi could possibly be scum, I suppose? I think NK/Gamma might be town.

[Aristophanes]

ceejayvinoya replaces Perniscious Parrot!

We're full again

[ceejayvinoya]

Heck yea

[MariaR]

I wonder who's my guilty, how's my guilty, how are they feeling today, how they will react.

God please be me

[MariaR]

Unvote Gamma btw.

[MariaR]

Ive read everything and still dislike maria, nero and faqt
But yeah, notknown's l-1 was obvscum

VOTE: gamma

I don't understand maria. She is my strongest town read. What makes you think she is scum?

FEEEEEEEEEEELS GOOD.
But why Idk what I did

[MariaR]

What the hell is ellitell?

Ellitell (2012): People who are active in all games save one are scum in said game.

This is just really bad and false for most cases. You don't have all the factors scum do. Scum could wanna mix up meta or want to act a certain way because they know X would townread them for it. If being active/not active was a tell we'd have way harder games because everyone would stick to one style. This is not a good way of getting reads

[MariaR]

Why assume that scum is going to be less active? This seems to be a common theme here on this site and is nonsensical to me. There is no reason that a scum would avoid being active unless they were trying to lurk a wagon away and even then site wide activity would really not be relevant in that case.

because you can post your genuine thoughts as town, while as scum you need to "think" of what to post. You can post your SRs naturally as town, but as scum you need to consume the effort to fabricate them. You do not know much as town and thus have nothing to hide, but as scum you do have knowledge and if you post more you could slip one way or the other.

You arguing against the ellitell as a whole is like you arguing against the amished tell as a whole, or virtually any other tell. But you can feel free to disregard it. I simply don't.

As for the D1 lynch wagon: Check this game out. It's a recent one. Basically Toranga was guiltied by BuJaber at the start of D2. We decided to go for his "unknown" partner instead. I figured it was Poseidon and Wh4t sheeped me (L-2). Toranaga tried to be smart by putting his p @L-1 to make us second guess our read, and Poseidon instantly hammered himself!

I could point you to other games where it's a bit more complicated than this, but it boils down to scum do self-hammer after seeing their p put them to L-1

You just made a wordy way of saying what I said of a partner would prob self vote if a partner was already on congrats we agree.

[MariaR]

Creature threw suspicion at 3 people, FA_QT, Wisdom and Kokichi - not Gamma.

I feel pretty good about Kokichi being town based on his ISO, so I think FA_QT may be whiteknighting NK/Gamma because they actually have TMI about them being town and because they actually know that the Pork wagon was alltown.

So based on both FA_QT’s hard defense of NK/Gamma - combined with Creature claiming a guilty on probably one of FA_QT, Wisdom, Kokichi, I’d say FA_QT and Wisdom are probably scum.

Kokichi has a number of posts that seem unlikely to come from scum.

At any rate, FA_QT is trying way too hard to defend NK/Gamma Pork wagon vote.

So, unless Creature has a guilty on one of the other two, my vote is staying on FA_QT.

Play the game like the guilty isn't real it works out better for interactions and it gives scum less excuses because scum can go "well I thought X was the guilty so I didn't push them." Playing the game like we don't have a guilty is much better then playing one like we do and playing around certain slots with guess work.

[MariaR]

Ive read everything and still dislike maria, nero and faqt
But yeah, notknown's l-1 was obvscum

VOTE: gamma

Confident townreads on the three hydras/almost
Probably wont lynch creature and kokichi
Parrot needs to post
And thats all

Yeah Wisdom can die.

He's better then that to insta call notknowns vote scummy when it was the most towny vote of them all (due to pork)

[Kokichi Oma]

Confident townreads on the three hydras/almost
Probably wont lynch creature and kokichi
Parrot needs to post
And thats all

What have done to be considered townish?

[Kokichi Oma]

I wonder who's my guilty, how's my guilty, how are they feeling today, how they will react.

I hope you really have one and not just posting to post. Only reason I think you could be scum is if you're using this to keep your post count up so people wont scum read you

[Kokichi Oma]

Do you townread Kokichi?

You don’t? His ISO seems pretty villagery to me?

How?

[frozenaga]

Ive read everything and still dislike maria, nero and faqt
But yeah, notknown's l-1 was obvscum

VOTE: gamma

Confident townreads on the three hydras/almost
Probably wont lynch creature and kokichi
Parrot needs to post
And thats all

Yeah Wisdom can die.

He's better then that to insta call notknowns vote scummy when it was the most towny vote of them all (due to pork)

can you expand on what you think is towny about NK's vote there?

-tor

[MariaR]

Pork the scum hammers right after the NK vote. I don't see why scum NK votes Pork there for Pork to self hammer. That vote was never gonna give him credit it was just gonna make him look bad.
I would've been more sus of NK if he wasn't voting Pork at all.

[frozenaga]

if they're scum together, I don't think they coordinated in any way for this to happen. porkens seems to have independently concluded that the gameday was better with him quick hammered and I don't think he considered much of how aligned he'd look with anyone. I just heavily dislike the way NK phrased his vote because it feels like scumsplaining and it's phrased hyperbolically as a strong, uncharitable scumread that just looks like TMI to me.

[MariaR]

so we're assuming pork is just a bad scum player who self hammered with no regards to his teammates? mmmmmmmmmm

[MariaR]

Like can I see that world? Yeah but I don't think it's likely. Let me sit on it

[Nero Cain]

I don't see why scum NK votes Pork there for Pork to self hammer. That vote was never gonna give him credit it was just gonna make him look bad.

yet ppl ARE town reading the whole of the Pork voters, at least I think Nancy and FA_Q2 are.

And like scum Pork going down I really wouldn't be that surprised to see scum trying to claw their way onto that wagon. Thats probs why FA_Q2 is mad he wasn't here to do so.