Open 735: Watchmen Wanted - Game Over!


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Post Post #2150 (ISO) » Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:48 pm

Post by Eragon »

In post 2149, frozenaga wrote:I think the accusation against brett is of him being at parties were girls were drugged, not that he actively participated in gang rapes, but I only read anything about it today. I'm not really interested either way, so if you say he is a rapist I believe you.
whoops
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Post Post #2151 (ISO) » Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:49 pm

Post by Eragon »

Rest in pieces Toranaga.

with a heart of ice.
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Post Post #2152 (ISO) » Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:50 pm

Post by Toranaga »

whoops indeed lmao
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Post Post #2153 (ISO) » Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:51 pm

Post by Toranaga »

I'm not interested cause I'm brazilian so this isn't relevant to my personal life
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Post Post #2154 (ISO) » Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:51 pm

Post by Eragon »

been there done that.

my first game ever using an alt I slipped D1

my first hydra slipped D3 I think?
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Post Post #2155 (ISO) » Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:52 pm

Post by Toranaga »

well I slip constantly but it's usually the other way around
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Post Post #2156 (ISO) » Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:53 pm

Post by Eragon »

In post 2155, Toranaga wrote:well I slip constantly but it's usually the other way around
lol
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Post Post #2157 (ISO) » Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:55 pm

Post by Toranaga »

and remember folks

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Post Post #2158 (ISO) » Sat Sep 29, 2018 2:58 pm

Post by Eragon »

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Post Post #2159 (ISO) » Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:01 pm

Post by Toranaga »

offspring is awesome
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Post Post #2160 (ISO) » Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:02 pm

Post by Eragon »

agreed,

although the only album I really really like is the Rise and Fall, Rage and Grace
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Post Post #2161 (ISO) » Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:05 pm

Post by Toranaga »

listen to this

believe me

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Post Post #2162 (ISO) » Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:10 pm

Post by Eragon »

they're not bad, but its not like, up there with my favorites
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Post Post #2163 (ISO) » Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:23 pm

Post by Reundo »

In post 2142, Eragon wrote:I'm willing to end it in about 12 hours.

That would be at like, 7:30 PM my time.

Or I'm also willing to do it tommorw(Sunday) at any time.


I know people can get busy. So I'm willing to leave them an extra ~24 hours or so
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Post Post #2164 (ISO) » Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:24 pm

Post by Reundo »

I SWEAR I'M ACTUALLY GOING TO DO THIS TONIGHT!

I'M THINKING ABOUT ISOING KEYSER FIRST SINCE HE'S MY TOP PICK FOR SCUM, BUT IF THERE'S SOMEONE YOU GUYS WOULD LIKE ME TO ISO FIRST THEN TELL ME NOW!
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Post Post #2165 (ISO) » Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:25 pm

Post by Toranaga »

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Post Post #2166 (ISO) » Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:25 pm

Post by Toranaga »

we'll wait mate, don't worry

I'm not unvoting you though
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Post Post #2167 (ISO) » Sat Sep 29, 2018 3:35 pm

Post by Eragon »

FIGHT!
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Post Post #2168 (ISO) » Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:57 pm

Post by Reundo »

TIL if you Q+ a bunch of quotes on one page of someone's ISO and then go to the next page and string more quotes via Q+ then it apparently only remembers the quotes pulled from page 2 of their ISO. I had to regroup like half the posts I wanted to mention, so that was a lot of fun. Hopefully I'll be able to wrap this up tomorrow morning.
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Post Post #2169 (ISO) » Sat Sep 29, 2018 11:18 pm

Post by Keyser Söze »

Prodge.

Still waiting for Reundo’s complete gameview.
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Post Post #2170 (ISO) » Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:48 am

Post by Flicker »

Votecount 4.05

Reundo (2)
- Eragon , Toranaga
Keyser Söze (1)
- Reundo

Not voting: Irrelephant11, Keyser Söze, Nauci

The deadline for Day 4 is 9:38 pm CT on Wednesday, October 10, in (expired on 2018-10-10 22:38:11).

Mod notes
  • - Nauci is V/LA until October 2.
Last edited by Flicker on Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #2171 (ISO) » Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:47 am

Post by Reundo »

Good morning. Have yourself a serving of scum for a well-rounded breakfast.

This is just the first page of my ISO dive on Keyser. I was going to spoiler it but the tags messed up so I'll just have to post it raw.
In post 25, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 16, Sesq wrote:
In post 13, Keyser Söze wrote:Anyone played this setup before?

I.e what’s the best way to play it... does hypoclaiming help town or scum?

And while we’re all saying hello, what are your opinions on how to deal with lurkers.
please Please townread me
This was a page one question intended to be answered before we enter serious/non-RVS gameplay.

You shouldn’t see it as an attempt to look ‘townie’: it’s as non-alignment indicative as say a player asking if there is scum day chat - why are you being lazy/shortsighted?
So this is the first instance of Keyser being overly defensive. There's a lot of little things that bug me -- his insistence at looking at it a certain way ("you
shouldn't
see it..."), his weird mixture of trying to explain what he meant while also accusing Sesq for not immediately understand his intentions ("why are you being lazy") -- and while these aren't major reasons to scum-read Keyser in and of themselves they do tie in a lot with his defensive behavior as a whole. Both town and scum can be defensive, yes, but his method of defense was less trying to decipher the legitimacy of his accusers and more trying to wane attention off of himself, and the particular way he defends himself caters a lot more to town than scum.
In post 51, Keyser Söze wrote:Your entrance was hideous. Your second post lazy too.

It made me uncomfortable for the following reasons:

- choosing to chip in with an irrelevant snippet over a non-issue (does it even matter? Is cesq town for saying this, is my reaction scummy/irrational?) what was the goal of your post...
to say I am a liar?
to say I am scum?

- failure to see how I think arguing over non-alignment/irrelevant items are a waste of time... but still wanting to start it all back up again...
- presuming "defensive"/""driving discussion away" is scum alignment indicative (my action was pro-town). Discussing whether I think I could gain town cred for post #13 is laughable and inane.
- me forgetting that this is an open set-up RE: scum day chat is a talking issue...?
- "I don't think it would be too unreasonable for someone to town-read you for trying to strike up conversation" is this you disagreeing with me or you saying I am scum, or both?


Now tell me why town-me can't think your entrance can be hideous and lazy (you called me "weirdly defensive").

Tell me why town-me can't regret making post #13 in the first place, and that we should move on swiftly.

"sorry to disappoint but I don't really have any "charged feelings" about anything else".. tell me why that shouldn't frustrate/intrigue town-me.


(if you can explain to me scum motivation for all three points I'll be more convinced of your scum read of me. please make your reply more coherent than mine :giggle: )
This is an over-reaction to being voted, but it actually isn't that scummy in and of itself. There are a few weird things, like how he called his own action "pro town" even though that's debatable, but overall it's more important how he reacted to my follow up:
In post 105, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 103, Reundo wrote:I don't believe that you can't do any of the above as town
Ok, you're not as close-minded as I first thought :giggle: But your list of scum tells are still terrible :(

In quick reply to your wall:

- town can call their own posts non-alignment indicative when accused of being scummy.
- both town and scum can ask if there is day chat.
- a town player can show concern if they think going down an avenue will be unproductive.
- a town player can be very concerned about being put in "bad light" for unjust causes.
- a town player can stubbornly push to try to change the subject if they think it won't help find scum.
- townies can make dumb mistakes and provide incorrect examples.
- town can "attack" the player attacking them.
So basically his defense is that because town can theoretically do all of the things above, then that means I should just drop all my reasons for scum-reading him, apparently? The point is that I thought he'd be more likely to do those things as town than scum -- I mentioned that in the wall he replied to, and I pushed it further when I followed up with him again, but by that point he went ghost silent and decided to drop the matter entirely.
In post 115, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 111, Ausuka wrote:
Spoiler: Sesq
their posts are a rollercoaster ride to the point where if they flipped red I'd be actually impressed with the acting. also I don't really see the scum motivation exactly for saying "oh i tr you nope jk i scumread you"- it's so convoluted that I think the simplest explanation is that they're just town tbh.
I personally wouldn't jump to town lean/read yet. I wanted sesq to open up about their s/read of me, because right now I'm wondering if he actually realises his scum read/vote of me is not actually supported with anything tangible, and not possessing the town-humility to unvote (...states reasons why I'm town, but then posts "vote stays") :giggle: Didn't like him describing his own play/posting as "nuanced", as if he's super aware of it (that's probably just a pet-hate of mine though). He remains near null for me. Let's see if he can share more solid thoughts/reads.
Sesq's scum-read on Keyser "not actually supported with anything tangible" is a gross read and is entirely subjective.
In post 115, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 111, Ausuka wrote:
Spoiler: Reundo
I kinda dislike his entrance. Like, with Sesq and Keyser, I can see both sides - I don't think keyser's opening was LAMIST but I can totally see how somebody could see it that way. I almost feel like he's trying to push Keyser? but holding back for some reason. I don't see how it's really supposed to be scum-indicative for someone to dislike their posts being portrayed as lamist. The whole scum daychat thing appears to be kinda irrelevant? Like, I don't see the argument that Keyser as scum for some reason uses scum daychat as an example of something NAI whereas town!Keyser acknowledges it's NAI and moves on. What could the scum motivation ever be for lying in such an insignificant way? I also don't get why it's scummy to say "this is NAI" when someone pushes you for things you think are NAI. I also don't see how it's scum motivated to stop talking about his sr on Sesq as scum; I don't think scum would really mind repeating the same thing over and over at all? And why does scum!keyser pretend to forget about hypoclaiming? Like I might just be being stupid but I don't understand this at all.
Yup yup yup. Wouldn't mind some more pressure on Reundo. I don't know what and why Reundo is arguing. I realise I'm an easy player to provoke, but he's got to start looking at the whole playerlist, and be less fixated on this
scum-day-chat/"defensive"/hypoclaiming/"driving discussion away"
scum theory non-sense. It's arguing over fluff which is concerning. Even scum-me would be laughing at his scum case on me.
"Arguing over fluff", yet doesn't put anything else into it over then "All of the things you're scum-reading me for I can do as town too". This was another point that I challenged him to elaborate on, but again he decided to just drop the whole thing, which makes the whole thing read like pointless shade.
In post 121, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 117, Dunnstral wrote:
In post 53, GameNBurger wrote:
In post 23, Dunnstral wrote:We end up at 4 people alive but 1 person is confirmed town (watcher) or there's a cc

So it's not worse
We have a watcher no matter what and a base 1/3 of finding scum is in fact worse than 1/2 bass chance of finding scum

Unless you’re talking about something else I’m not reading because this doesn’t exactly communicate the idea clearly
I mean it's not worse than a regular game at 3 people alive

----

Keyser I don't think I caught you in the game we played, not sure why you think I should be "taking lead" today either
Keyser Söze wrote: If Dunnstral flips red I would actually wanna put Irrelephant under closer inspection (i.e ill-timed/ill-formed distancing attempt). Or vice versa. I've enjoyed talking to Irrelephant11 so he's on the green side of null so far.
This is bad preflip stuff and you have to jump to a lot of conclusions to get to this point - also it's not warranted at this time

VOTE: Sesq
This is a good place to put a serious vote
weird choice of posts to share comments on:

- first one about set-up talk
- second one about a previous game
- third one about early D1 pre-flip paranoia
- unexplained vote
In post 127, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 122, Dunnstral wrote:I'd rather be weird than scummy
I meant weird in a suspicious way (not towny).

I’ll wait for your full catchup.
Weird things to point out about Dunn's comments. The first one was a response to a post from GameNBurger. The second one didn't matter at all (who cares about bringing up a previous game, especially when it's, again, mostly a respone). The fourth was the only really valid one, but as it whole it feels like a mostly conjured up scum-read of sorts, which would make sense as something people would bring up when Dunn flips scum. It's also notable that he says he'll "wait for your full catchup" as an excuse to not vote his scum-buddy yet doesn't react at all when Dunn fails to deliver.
In post 140, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 139, Ausuka wrote:I mean, sometimes people disagree on what's AI, I don't think that makes 2.718 scum.
Wise words which I agree with. Willing to put that whole mess behind me, as I ended up arguing over fluff myself.
He's apparently "willing to put that whole mess behind him", yet right after this...
In post 143, Keyser Söze wrote:VOTE: Reundo
He decides to vote me, why? If he wants to put it behind him, what's the motive behind his vote? He says he was trying to assert the "genuineness" of his read, yet he never comes around to deliver on what he gleaned from his probing (which is also significant given he chastised Sesq for not explaning what they learned from their reaction tests earlier with regards to their sr on Keyser).
In post 187, Keyser Söze wrote:Sounds like Kop knows I’m town, that’s a relief ;)

Not sure I buy into NSG’s “staccato sentence/comma” theory - unless you can clearly show Kop only posting this style as scum, I think it’s too reachy for my taste.


I actually liked Toranaga’s entrance, but where’s the vote?


I can see / clearly read Volxen’s posts, but don’t feel like they’ve opened up yet (free flowing posting). Feels too laboured/restricted at the moment.

Irrelephant11 throwing his vote around is consistent with his last town game with me... do you do this regardless of alignment? :giggle:
I'm not impressed by most of this semi-reads list. Toranaga's entrance wasn't that impressive. Saying that volxen's posts felt "too laboured/restricted" felt like a fake read, and doesn't make sense considering volxen's entrance was piss-poor and should have ticked off Keyser considering that he also scum-read others for bringing up things in the past that weren't relevant.
In post 224, Keyser Söze wrote:VOTE: volxen

:twisted:
So here he votes volxen for what, exactly? Also, why would he be so keen to switch from voting me to voting who I was voting for -- was my recent post really enough to convince him that I was town or that he should somehow trust my judgement considering I was just scum-reading him for "fluff" earlier?
In post 252, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 166, Toranaga wrote:volxen/sesq/271 all fine lynches
In post 192, Toranaga wrote:I could case them all if I had the motivation to do so
You gonna add your case on Volxen while there is a wagon on him?
He's asking others to expand on volxen while also doing nothing to push him himself, which isn't a good look for him.
In post 266, Keyser Söze wrote:@volxen

Are you saying that those three players are scummy for contributing to the apathy/lurking that festers in this game? Or are you just pissed off for being s/read; being our first wagon?
This is the only post that Keyser makes directly criticizing volxen. It's a good point, but the fact that A)he never follows-up on volxen's response and B)he doesn't do anything else to push volxen, reads like a throwaway comment.
In post 424, Keyser Söze wrote: In the end, I realised I was the person to blame for all this fluff/mess, so those scum-feels slowly faded. Reundo has since then been sharing thoughts I too share, so he has redeemed himself IMO, and is no longer a threat but a teammate.
This post sounds a lot of alarms. He claimed that he was the one to blame for all this fluff/mess, but he would've realized this when he made that "willing to put this whole thing behind" comment, yet he voted me instead, which implies the exact opposite of what he's claiming. Furthermore, his "slowly fading" scum-feels correlates with my fading scum-feels as well, which suggests he isn't putting anymore effort into scum-reading me because I'm not scum-reading him, which falls in line with his overall lack of ability to scum-read players who town-read him and his tendency to scum-read players who scum-read him.
In post 537, Keyser Söze wrote: Yes, yes, scum partners bus, but at the time of reading these posts I did begin to see Reundo as a teammate who was sharing similar thoughts and suspicions as myself. He chose to oppose the Sesq wagon while it was selling like hot cakes (like myself) and hold the course with the more difficult Volxen wagon.

These three posts should at least give him safe passage into D3.


If Reundo is town, they possess impressive reading skills.
The important thing to note here is this is start of Keyser's whole "Reundo would be too good at scum to be scum / is never scum here" theory, and it's important to note while going through his ISO how it builds up and how it ultimately breaks down.
In post 632, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 592, Reundo wrote:
Spoiler: My Case On Keyser Söze
In post 123, volxen wrote:@Sesq, why not just share with us your reasons for scumreading Keyser? You started the game by taking a slight jab at him in , and then in you said that Keyser is “entirely detached from the state of the game ... but not in a scum way”.
In post 148, volxen wrote:@2.718, are you still scumreading Keyser?
In post 237, volxen wrote: Keyser - I actually like that he started the game by asking about hypoclaiming in , it showed that right off the bat he wanted to strategize on how to potentially make things more difficult for the scumteam. This is only my second game on this site so I don’t have any firsthand experience with hypoclaiming or its effectiveness, but I think it’s not likely that a member of the scumteam would suggest this as a tactic, since it could, theoretically, allow the watcher to reveal who they got a guilty on while making it more difficult for the scumteam to identify the real watcher.

Scum Reads
:

2.718 – I really didn’t like his post-RVS opening in . I feel like he tried to completely misrepresent what Keyser really meant when he said that he didn’t want to talk about hypoclaiming/setup past page 1, and even after Keyser clarified this in (that he wasn’t “forbidding” discussion but rather that he didn’t want to partake in it himself), 2.718 still continued to press the issue in .

I also didn’t like that in 2.718 was quick to side with Reundo in the Keyser vs Reundo argument that was going on at the time. 2.718 made the comment here that “Reundo's 46 is a little annoying but I like how he looked at
everyone
”. At the time, Reundo only had two posts, and , in which he mainly focused on attacking Keyser, with only brief references made to Sesq, GameNBurger, and northsidegal in . 2.718’s post made it sound like Reundo was taking a balanced look at “everyone”, when in reality he was primarily just hammering down on Keyser. I feel like this was a very weak reason for 2.718 to jump in so quickly to side with Reundo.
In post 280, volxen wrote:
In post 256, Irrelephant11 wrote:@Volxen in your previous readslist why did you include more nullreads than scum or town reads?
Reundo is someone that I would like to get a read on, but I’ve been having a very difficult time trying to read him. I
REALLY
did
NOT
like the way he started this game in . But I’m not sure if his interactions (and arguments) with Keyser are SvT or TvT (Keyser is still a townread for me). The last time I went through his ISO and reviewed his interactions with Keyser, I ended up just getting really frustrated because I couldn’t get a read on him one way or another. I’m going to review Reundo’s content again, and hopefully I will catch something that I may have missed the first time around.
In post 484, volxen wrote: t like his entrance to the game and the way he attacked Keyser right off the bat, and I think the way he is playing this game is very opportunistic.
First point I was going to make was how volxen was literally obsessed with Keyser as the above quotes show. Even in his scum-read of 2.178 he couldn't help bringing up Keyser and giving yet another HOT TAKE on the whole me verses Keyser debate. This kind of focus is completely unnatural and forced, which could mean one of two things: A)That he was afraid of spewing anyone as town so he thought the best bet was to spew Keyser!town (plausible, but eh) OR B)That he was trying to make his scum-buddy seem as towny as possible, even when it goes way overboard, which is actually more unlikely than A, but becomes increasingly more likely when you take into account that Keyser basically blatantly distanced himself from volxen.
In post 123, volxen wrote:@Sesq, why not just share with us your reasons for scumreading Keyser? You started the game by taking a slight jab at him in , and then in you said that Keyser is “entirely detached from the state of the game ... but not in a scum way”. You also said in that post that you changed your mind about him, which would suggest you no longer found him scummy, but you kept your vote on him anyways. And then in you are apparently back to scumreading him. So why not just explain why you scumread him – is there really anything useful gained by putting it out there that you scumread him, but then refuse to elaborate any further? And what exactly did you mean when you said that he is “detached” from the state of the game, but in a way that is not indicative of him being scum? Trying to understand your motivations here.
This is a really bad entrance, especially according to Keyser's supposed method of scum-hunting: it was a post about a topic that was well over and done with (which he called out me for), a topic that likely wasn't going to lead to any AI responses at all (something that he later called out Dunn for). There was little reason why Keyser WOULDN'T call out volxen for this type of post, except, of course, if they were scum-buddies, which was the first big ping for a volxen/Keyser pairing, which was why I didn't really have any problem switching my vote over to volxen.

I'm not going to quote it here because it's a little long, but when Keyser responded to Ausuka's readslist he pretty much responded to all of her reads except for volxen and GameNBurger (though tbh he did talk about GameNBurger just a bit earlier), which was again blatant distancing between him and volxen.
In post 187, Keyser Söze wrote: I can see / clearly read Volxen’s posts, but don’t feel like they’ve opened up yet (free flowing posting). Feels too laboured/restricted at the moment.
This read of volxen makes no sense, and almost sounds like a town-read (?) which was why it was a little weird when he jumped onto volxen's wagon later in the day.
In post 266, Keyser Söze wrote:@volxen

Are you saying that those three players are scummy for contributing to the apathy/lurking that festers in this game? Or are you just pissed off for being s/read; being our first wagon?
It would make sense to at least try to look like he was pushing the volxen wagon. Not scummy in and of itself, but it implies he scum-reads volxen a little, which is a bit important later on.
In post 368, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 359, Irrelephant11 wrote:I’ll vote Sesq if that’s the lynch
Hey Irrelephant, I'm gonna go the WIFOM route sorry:
do you think scum-Sesq would have a bit more survival/verve/urgency in them?
This is literally the only post I couldn't parse from scum!Keyser, but at the same time it would look almost a bit too bad if he jumped onto such easy lynchbait.
In post 374, Keyser Söze wrote:@Irrelephant - yeah gonna try and work an alternative wagon as we head into the deadline
This post, however, pretty much nullifies the affect the last post had, because I couldn't get why town!Keyser would want to move onto a new wagon when he didn't necessarily clear volxen or give any indication whatsoever that he was town-reading him.

That's pretty much all I had on volxen/Keyser distancing (or at least what I've bothered to bring up). I was then just basically going to summarize all the anti-town/scummy things he did this game, including but not limited to...

>Basically only responding to my initial case on him with "town could do the same things I'm doing right now!", which is a pretty petty defense, then when I brought up that I wasn't convinced by this he basically hammered down on the concept while later claiming I was focusing too much on him, despite the fact he basically didn't prove any of my points wrong so I had no reason not to shift focus.
>The fact that out of the whole lynch pool D1, the only player on there who didn't criticize Keyser directly was volxen, his own scum-buddy. His only scum-reads were basically people who criticized him and he was far too happy to throw out town-reads to anyone who town-read him, which completely neglects the possibility of buddying and is not town motivated at all.
>Related to the above, pretty much the way he was happy-go-lucky with everyone who town-read him but super aggressive with anyone who didn't. It wasn't a natural shift in tone, and it certainly wasn't town-motivated. Also, generally not accepting of the fact that people could possibly scum-read Keyser.
>Basically the way he did a complete 180 on me when I didn't suspect him anymore.
>Oh, and the super obvious Huntress night-kill. It's such a scum!Keyser night-kill it's not even funny, really.

There's probably some stuff I forgot, and a lot of the case is a bit rushed because I'm not too motivated to case caught scum so some of the points aren't all that polished, but I feel the above was plenty enough evidence here to convict scum!Keyser. Honestly, I was going to push a the worst/Keyser pairing at the start of the day because I thought the worst was pocketing a bit too much for my taste (and reminded me a lot of my first scum game with him) and the progression to voting volxen didn't really feel natural to me. I thought volxen put only town in his scum-reads because it basically read as a desperate attempt to start another counter-wagon and he wouldn't really want to bus Toranaga in that scenario, but I did suspect him a bit for pushing volxen but never actually voting him until it was clear he had to bus, which was a pretty noticeable ping. I thought Ausuka's votes felt opportunistic as well and I didn't find her initial read very organic, so my lynch plan would've basically been {Keyser, the worst, Toranaga, Ausuka} which would've worked out fine in the end anyhow.
- Town and scum usually fixate on my posts. They are very juicy.
- Volxen knew I was town, thus attacked the players who attacked me.
- I secretly like players defending me, so I allowed it, instead of stopping them.
- There were a few player reads of Ausuka that I did not feel there was enough content to discuss.
- My Post 187 was a reason to s/read Volxen. I try to highlight only scum alignment indicative points against a player.
- I joined Volxen’s wagon because it was a wagon I fully supported.
- Basically, Volxen reacted like frustrated scum when their wagon built up.
- Volxen was attacking players for NAI reasons.
- I did not want to join the lead wagon (Sesq) because it looked like the low hanging fruit counter wagon to Volxen.
- Irrelephant11 mentioned he was happy/ready to hammer Sesq so I wanted him to re-evaluate that slot via WIFOM.
- I wanted to support an alternative wagon to Sesq. Volxen was still viable. I stayed on it.
- Volxen was not trying to distance me. I was one easy t/read he could express without raising alarm bells, and then attack players for pressuring me.
- Your original scum case on me was filled with scum tells that are not even scum tells. They are NAI behaviour.
- I encouraged you to look at the whole playerlist instead of tunnelling fluff. You then began to scum hunt, and found scum (pat myself on back).
- My reads were pretty solid on D1. I do know what distancing and buddying are.
- I did not scum read every player that scum read me. I realise town can have bad reads. Or I may have helped towards that read through my playstyle.
- Town players can do a complete 180 read change on another player (if their posts justify it. Your posts justified my 180 on you).
- Huntress NK had nothing to do with me (it appears you are suffering from deep confirmation bias now). That NK was chosen as it was a safe night kill (I.e Huntress was very unlikely to be watched N1).


I would like to discuss your thoughts on Toranaga and Ausuka though.
This is a pretty similar defense to the first one he gave. There's a lot of "I can do the things you said as town too!!!" type points, which again is fairly unconvincing and doesn't address my concerns. A lot of them don't even make sense -- if he thought volxen acted like "frustrated scum" and that he was asking players for "NAI reasons", then why would he even propose starting a counter-wagon to volxen? He wasn't town-reading him for anything and had a plethora of reasons to scum-read him, so his only motive for jumping off of volxen would be if he didn't want him lynched for reasons that he hasn't disclosed (*cough* they're scum buddies *cough*).
In post 778, Keyser Söze wrote:I really wish Dunnstral would talk to Ausuka (or engage other players about his scum read, or even earnestly re-read the thread).

[Toranaga is at least doing this..]
So it's clear now that Keyser is scum-reading Dunnstral, which is important to note going through the next couple of posts.
In post 791, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 790, Dunnstral wrote:
In post 784, Keyser Söze wrote:@Reundo - help me with Toranaga and Ausuka.
Both can’t be scum... so either both town, or one scum?
Why do you call out to Reundo here?
Why not?

Reundo is a slot I have tangible reasons to t/read from D1 - so was hoping to see him open up and share his opinion on two slots I keep flipping on.

[So far D2 he has only expressed a thorough and logical scum case on me]
So here he's doubling down on me being town despite me scum-reading him, which he can't really do without looking pretty suspicious which he also doesn't need to do because he wasn't in any danger of being lynched himself. Dunnstral's "Why do you call out to Reundo here?" post was weird, and it read like him just throwing pointless shade on his partner to make himself look better if Keyser was lynched. The fact Keyser called it out doesn't change this much, and it seems like he's building up a pretty good transition towards busing his partner.
In post 856, Keyser Söze wrote:Still have a feeling Dunnstral is holding back on purpose.

VOTE: Dunnstral


@Dunnstral - show me one of your town games where you have been this distant.
Now Keyser is fully committed to voting Dunnstral, which is weird considering the post he makes shortly after...
In post 895, Keyser Söze wrote:Annoyingly I’m sure Dunnstral has the ability to get himself out of everybody’s PoE but he hasn’t been ‘here’ the whole game.
I'm not sure what this even supposed to mean. Is he saying that Dunnstral would be able to convince him if he just posted a bit more? That doesn't sound like a strong scum-read to me, and considering this setup doesn't have day-talk it could easily be a nudge to his scum-buddy to post more.
In post 906, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 823, Ausuka wrote:UNVOTE:
VOTE: Reundo
Talk me though how/why/when Reundo bussed Volxen on D1.
Paint me the narrative for me to believe it.
Here he clearly shows that he doesn't find it believable that scum!me would bus volxen, and at this point it's painfully clear he doesn't think I'm likely to be scum at all.
In post 1093, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 1091, Toranaga wrote:ok, real talk

anyone scumreading dunnstral needs to read him shading the volxen wagon when it was L-2 and actually pushing people who voted there. is this in his scum range? because this is objectively towny. a player's first instinct while watching a wolf team mate go down, is to distance themselves from it. universally. dunn is not only not doing that, but actively pushing people with good reasoning behind it. this does not seem like he knows volxen is scum at all.

Spoiler:
In post 244, Dunnstral wrote:
In post 220, Reundo wrote: I don't really understand the town-reads of volxen. Everything he's posted seems like surface-level scum-hunting based mostly around points that have already been brought up by others, and as a whole it seems like he's much more interested in garnering why player X scum-reads player Y than providing scum-reads of his own. I'm more worried about him than 2.718 at the moment.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: volxen
In post 221, Irrelephant11 wrote:VOTE: volxen
In post 222, Sesq wrote:Yeah, i can see that

VOTE: volxen
In post 224, Keyser Söze wrote:VOTE: volxen

:twisted:
In post 239, Ausuka wrote:VOTE: volxen
This momentum is pretty weird - I don't think Reundo's case in 220 is that compelling. Sesq looks bad here.
In post 245, Dunnstral wrote:Who was town reading Volxen?
In post 246, Dunnstral wrote:
In post 222, Sesq wrote:Yeah, i can see that
Can you point it out for me?
In post 285, Dunnstral wrote:
In post 246, Dunnstral wrote:
In post 222, Sesq wrote:Yeah, i can see that
Can you point it out for me?
Now would be a good time to explain this Sesq
In post 353, Dunnstral wrote:Still think sesq is question dodging

Ausuka votes are kind of weird, though
WIFOM dictates Dunnstral is likely town.........


I do love townies who are oblivious of how bad they’ll look after a flip.

Let me sit down and put the kettle on.
WIFOM dictates that Dunnstral is town??? That doesn't really make sense at all. As far as I recall Dunn still hasn't been posting much or making a good case for himself, so I don't see why he'd suddenly decide to stop scum-reading him due to "WIFOM".
In post 1176, Keyser Söze wrote:Dunnstral:

- defends scum
- opposes wagon on scum
- attacks town
- encourages wagon on town
- not motivated (or happy to be seen to not be motivated) about scum hunting
- no pro-active urgency demonstrated while being the lead wagon today
- weak ISO
- zero town cred won from D1 (Volxen bud was there for the taking)
- zero motivation to gain town cred for D2
- Lame OMGUS read
- minimal WIM


Tora opened up my eyes to town read him via WIFOM.

Scum-Dunstral would never survive to LYLO playing like this.

Proof of the pudding: he’s been in nearly everybody’s POE today, and likely some people will even want to kickstart his wagon before the deadline.
So before Dunnstral was apparently scum, and now it's "scum-Dunn would never survive to LyLo"? Like I understand that sometimes your opinions change, but Keyser has been flip-flopping far too much to reasonably come from town, and as it whole it reads like scum!Keyser jumping on the opportunity to push against his partner's lynch now that he realizes there's a good chance he can direct the lynch elsewhere.
In post 1210, Keyser Söze wrote:This game is about survival.
And Dunnstral’s supposed scum game isn’t helping him survive.
Scum-Dunnstral gets no benefit out of this or his remaining teammate: even if his partner busses, they’d get no town-cred.
It’s tactical suicide.

I believe scum are in my middle ground reads.
Again, more proof that Keyser apparently can't buy Dunnstral being scum at all, which is again a 180 from what he was pushing just pages earlier.
In post 1275, Keyser Söze wrote:I do love Reundo’s novella-style reads on players. They feel like a warm blanket that re-assure me.

His work on Volxen D1 was exemplary. For those alone I elected Reundo into my top tier of town reads at the start of D2.

His recent post regarding Dunnstral strengthens my resolve not to hang Dunnstral today.

Reundo also weakens my desire to flip NSG D2 (pointing out their D1 actions surrounding the Sesq counter wagon was not the scum-optimal-play).

Finally, Reundo has re-opened my reluctant suspicion of Ausuka, who jumped off the Volxen wagon, to join the Sesq wagon, then finally rejoining the Volxen wagon. Even though I town-lean the Ausuka slot, those actions are scummy in isolation (in the conventional VCA sense). This is
my dilemma
This is pretty uncomfortable and unrealistic buddying -- surely he can't agree with
everything
I've written. It's also further evidence that Keyser doesn't want Dunnstral lynched, which is noteable going into page 2 of Keyser's ISO.
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Post Post #2172 (ISO) » Sun Sep 30, 2018 4:49 am

Post by Reundo »

Now, onto dissecting the second page of Keyser's ISO... The spoiler's tag still not working for me, so sorry for the incoming wall.
In post 1497, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 1359, Keyser Söze wrote:VOTE: Eragon

Probably gonna stay here for the rest of D2.

Dunnstral vs Eragon wagons competing makes most sense in my reads universe. Not going to give any town-scum, scum-scum association theory until we see a flip.
I may need to go back on my promise.

VOTE: Dunnstral

Sorry mate. I needed more tangible town motivation in your ISO to defend you with. In the end, I’ll have to concede and say WIFOM isn’t going to outweigh the surface level scummy actions in your D1/D2 behaviour. I hope to play again with you, but hopefully it’s in a game that engages/excites you.


Let’s end Day 2.
Now Keyser does a complete 180 on Dunnstral, despite him advocating so hard against his lynch for so long. Now that it's obvious Dunn is probably getting lynched, scum!Keyser decides the best course of action is to bus his partner to try and cash in his town-cred, which explains the abrupt transition regarding his read of Dunn.
In post 1516, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 1513, Nauci wrote:
In post 387, Reundo wrote:I don't really understand why the volxen wagon died down the way it did. The only town points he got was from northsidegal for being contradictory, and while I can sort of see where northsidegal is coming from it doesn't feel like a particularly strong town-read, and the contradictions run much deeper than mere activity. Looking back on it, post #254 is a lot more petty than I realized. I could see why some of the posts volxen mentioned could be viewed as active lurking, but to not put any more thought into players than "oh, they're active lurking, they're probably scum" is incredibly lazy and narrow-minded. It actually feels like he's afraid of contradicting himself, as if scum-reading someone for doing X means he also has to scum-read everyone who does X, and I'm struggling to see how town can be so close-minded. He gives himself a lot of town points for "having reads and trying to game solve" while completely ignoring that 2.718 made an entire reads list, and the least he could've done was acknowledge that fact and explain why 2.718's reads list was lazy/active-lurking/whatever instead of trying to sweep it under the rug and hope no one notices.

His recent trajectory isn't much better either. 2.718 seemed to be his biggest scum-read, but when northsidegal started town-reading him volxen didn't even bat an eye or seem to care at all really, not even an acknowledgement akin to "well, I guess you have a point on 2.178", and he seemed too eager to hop onto a counter wagon as soon as the opportunity opened up. He also said he was going to update his readslist tomorrow on Friday, and he still hasn't followed up on it. On one hand I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he was busier than he intended, and I ended up posting later than I meant to once as well, but part of me feels he's just not bothering anymore because the pressure's been shifted to Sesq instead.

Sesq isn't a terrible lynch, but the way it built up didn't make much sense either. It seemed mostly based on their play here not lining up with their town meta, which sort of makes sense but unless their play here is similar to their scum game it might just be NAI. A lot of players have talked about their lack of motivation in this game, and it's debatable how much of this is genuine or just an excuse but it's wide-spread enough to where I can see Sesq just not being at their A-game this game. Just looking at this game specifically, I'm struggling to see a definite scum agenda to their play. I'm annoyed by their limited scum-reads and coasting behavior, but at the same time they clearly don't care about the impression they give off and they're not super motivated to start a counter-wagon, even going as far as to town-read volxen. It almost feels like they're playing to get lynched in some aspects, which honestly does make some sense as a scum play-style, but I'm kind of iffy on it.

Volxen is still my preferred lynch today. I'm not too opposed to a sesq lynch but I have a lot more reservations about it compared to volxen. Toranga/Dunn are my weakest nulls right now, so I probably won't cry a river over their lynches either, but volxen makes the most sense to me right now tbh.
Btw this is one of those posts that put Reundo firmly into never-lynch territory
Yep, I noted 3 great uppercuts from Reundo on Volxen from D1. #pivotal


Spoiler:
In post 537, Keyser Söze wrote:Master Reundo won big town-cred from D1. After his awkward examination of me (once scummy, but now forgiven), Reundo changed up his focus and gave us a tour-de-force in delivering the Volxen lynch. Here are the 3 killer posts:
In post 119, Reundo wrote:volxen - His post-RVS introduction was pretty pointless and actually did nothing to add to the discussion. I get I might be kind of a hypocrite since similar things have been said about my introduction, but it seems even more exaggerated in that the distance between the post he was responding to and his actual post number were literally pages apart and that all he said was basically just paraphrasing what northsidegal said. A lean scum for me.
In post 220, Reundo wrote:I don't really understand the town-reads of volxen. Everything he's posted seems like surface-level scum-hunting based mostly around points that have already been brought up by others, and as a whole it seems like he's much more interested in garnering why player X scum-reads player Y than providing scum-reads of his own. I'm more worried about him than 2.718 at the moment.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: volxen
In post 387, Reundo wrote:I don't really understand why the volxen wagon died down the way it did. The only town points he got was from northsidegal for being contradictory, and while I can sort of see where northsidegal is coming from it doesn't feel like a particularly strong town-read, and the contradictions run much deeper than mere activity. Looking back on it, post #254 is a lot more petty than I realized. I could see why some of the posts volxen mentioned could be viewed as active lurking, but to not put any more thought into players than "oh, they're active lurking, they're probably scum" is incredibly lazy and narrow-minded. It actually feels like he's afraid of contradicting himself, as if scum-reading someone for doing X means he also has to scum-read everyone who does X, and I'm struggling to see how town can be so close-minded. He gives himself a lot of town points for "having reads and trying to game solve" while completely ignoring that 2.718 made an entire reads list, and the least he could've done was acknowledge that fact and explain why 2.718's reads list was lazy/active-lurking/whatever instead of trying to sweep it under the rug and hope no one notices.

His recent trajectory isn't much better either. 2.718 seemed to be his biggest scum-read, but when northsidegal started town-reading him volxen didn't even bat an eye or seem to care at all really, not even an acknowledgement akin to "well, I guess you have a point on 2.178", and he seemed too eager to hop onto a counter wagon as soon as the opportunity opened up. He also said he was going to update his readslist tomorrow on Friday, and he still hasn't followed up on it. On one hand I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he was busier than he intended, and I ended up posting later than I meant to once as well, but part of me feels he's just not bothering anymore because the pressure's been shifted to Sesq instead.

Sesq isn't a terrible lynch, but the way it built up didn't make much sense either. It seemed mostly based on their play here not lining up with their town meta, which sort of makes sense but unless their play here is similar to their scum game it might just be NAI. A lot of players have talked about their lack of motivation in this game, and it's debatable how much of this is genuine or just an excuse but it's wide-spread enough to where I can see Sesq just not being at their A-game this game. Just looking at this game specifically, I'm struggling to see a definite scum agenda to their play. I'm annoyed by their limited scum-reads and coasting behavior, but at the same time they clearly don't care about the impression they give off and they're not super motivated to start a counter-wagon, even going as far as to town-read volxen. It almost feels like they're playing to get lynched in some aspects, which honestly does make some sense as a scum play-style, but I'm kind of iffy on it.

Volxen is still my preferred lynch today. I'm not too opposed to a sesq lynch but I have a lot more reservations about it compared to volxen. Toranga/Dunn are my weakest nulls right now, so I probably won't cry a river over their lynches either, but volxen makes the most sense to me right now tbh.

Yes, yes, scum partners bus, but at the time of reading these posts I did begin to see Reundo as a teammate who was sharing similar thoughts and suspicions as myself. He chose to oppose the Sesq wagon while it was selling like hot cakes (like myself) and hold the course with the more difficult Volxen wagon.

These three posts should at least give him safe passage into D3.


If Reundo is town, they possess impressive reading skills.
Here he agrees with Nauci that I'm in his "never lynch" pool, further citing three posts of mine that supports his view, which again demonstrates the sheer magnitude and strength of his town-read on me.
In post 1558, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 1552, Eragon wrote:Also, the fact that your talking about MY confidence is ???

Keyser went from hard-defending Dunn with nothing but WIFOM read, and then he suddenly switches to
“If Dunn flips town I’m replacing out”
That’s literally staking his part of the game on dunn’s Flip being red.

If that’s not confidence, then I don’t know what is
I’m not confident of Dunn flipping red. You have misunderstood my post.

I will lose interest in this game if he flips green.
So he's not confident that Dunn will flip red, yet he'll lose interest in the game if he flips green? Why would his interest in the game even wane on Dunnstral flipping green? Like, I guess it would be annoying if he flipped green since he did nothing to defend himself, but it's definitely not a game-ending lynch or anything. This just reads like a weird excuse to justify his complete 180 on Dunn.
In post 1601, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 1593, northsidegal wrote:
In post 1590, northsidegal wrote:what're the odds reundo is scum?
meh, not sure. he was right there on the volxen wagon, but townread dunnstral day 2 (albeit for reasons consistent with reasons for him townreading me). his reaction at the end of the day seems pretty strange to me coming from someone who had a townread on dunn, though.
In post 1591, Keyser Söze wrote:Wellplayed Ausuka x
Reundo town through and through for me.
Crystal clear scum read progression and methodology on Volxen.
Delightful brain waves regarding Dunnstral slot that I felt during the middle part of D2.
If scum, an exceptional scum player I will never want to play with again as his scum game is untraceable in my eyes and he mirrored many of my developing thoughts on players.
Town
This is probably the strongest town-read of me he's given yet, even to go as far as to say that my scum game is "untraceable" and that's he'd never want to play with me again if I were scum. It would be reasonable then to assume that his town-read of me would take a lot of work to break down, and that it'll take a lot of convincing for him to view me as scum. Except...
In post 1663, Keyser Söze wrote:I’d be very uncomfortable lynching Reundo today (he has more town cred than even me!) :giggle:
Why would he be uncomfortable lynching me
today
? I thought he just said literally a few pages ago that I'm town "through and through" -- why would he want to lynch me
ever
?
In post 1678, Keyser Söze wrote:I guess Reundo would only be lynched if he got to the last 3.



His intricate scum case on me was so well constructed, painting me as Volxen’s perfect partner...
But I don’t see two scum trying to set me up like that for a single misslynch.
It felt more like a townie starting with a scum read on me, then turning everything I wrote into something scummy, and every thing Volxen wrote as a link to me. I’m nobody though, just a man with a vote.
So now he does want me lynched despite advocating so hard that he could basically never see me as scum, which doesn't feel like a genuine transition in the slightest. Remind you, this is just pages after he claimed that he was so confident I was town that he'd never want to play with me against if I'm scum since my scum-game would be "untraceable".
In post 1834, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 1831, Toranaga wrote:VOTE: reundo

scummy af entrance
Yeah, Reundo had the worst entrance out of every player.

Reundo still demonstrating the inability to post in real time.



So is that his thing, post enough to pull of a clinical bus of his teammate and cash in towncred galore, day two doesn’t know what to do as he witnesses his scum mate being savaged, a wagon he was half hesitant with...?

After consulting my teammates, IT’S SIMPLY NOT GOOD ENOUGH :evil:

Image



You no longer deserve the cloak of invincibility I bestowed upon you!
This complete 180 on me doesn't make any sense at all, and I feel the only reason he's completely changing his read on me is that it's clear I'm a viable mislynch target and that scum-reading me is the new cool and popular opinion to have. This constant flip-flopping of me being town or scum makes absolutely no sense from town, and neither does his constant flip-flopping of his read on Dunnstral.
In post 1850, Keyser Söze wrote:Hmmm... the Reundo in this game has lost his voice.

There is no soul in his posts!



It’s like a demon has possessed the body of Reundo and is trying to mimic him! :o
In post 1856, Keyser Söze wrote:I CAST YOU OUT, UNCLEAN SPIRIT!



VOTE: Reundo
So now he's fully committed to lynching the player he once thought was the most towny in the game, and compared to the mountains of posts he made D2 where he was convinced I was never scum this vote just doesn't feel natural at all.
In post 1896, Keyser Söze wrote:Reundo’s 3-hit strike on Volxen is remarkable but what else in his ISO says town?
Keyser's literally made posts where he pulled up strings of posts that he believed were town-indicative. He's brought up numerous posts from mine that he suggested were towny. Acting like he never town-read me at all or town-read me outside of the "3-hit strike on Volxen" is disingenuous and completely untrue, and there'd be no reason for him to lie like this as town.
In post 2067, Keyser Söze wrote:Where my head is right now regarding Reundo.

The scum narrative:

- uncomfortable start pressing non alignment indicative factors as scummy (worst entrance by any player), realises he needs to save his slot
- busses teammate (Volxen) and continues miminal posting
- sets himself up perfectly: nobody can put together a strong case versus his small ISO, and will all bestow town cred on him for his acute push on flipped scum. He’s happy to be town read and be outside everyone's PoE
- half hesitant with Dunnstral wagon
- continues a suspicious periphery presence (choosing when to join the game when a misslynch is viable)
- I actually think he’s out of his element with the town players in this playerslist so has failed to engage one on one in real time. We could have had a perfect game lynching him yesterday.
- his reads reflect two misslynches lined up (his only strategy now)
- his timing to show up is always bad (scum indicative opportunistic/survivalist behaviour)
- there is a serious lack of WIM from his slot (the least WIM demonstrated by all the playerlist, despite apparently dunking on scum on D1)
- no pro-active sorting of the playerlist (where is the sincere town initiative, the paranoia, the genuine concern of someone challenging both his reads and others?
- the more he posts about myself/Toranaga the more likely he’ll be lynched tomorrow anyway (so he’s in a dilemma, thus, his pro-active contributions will be underwhelming yet again)
- meta: his posts lack the soul of the town meta I have read of his. This Reundo is not the real town Reundo, but a fake imitation.


Promised to ISO each player though first before I vote.
This scum narrative ignores the fact that he himself was half-hesistant on Dunnstral, and as a whole it just looks he's just drumming up reasons to scum-read me.
In post 2090, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 2076, Irrelephant11 wrote:So fmpov either scum is eragon or one scum bussed the volxen lynch
that challenges some assumptions
I've been along the 'scum bussed scum' narrative for a long time now. So I expect attention my way via VCA (I'm on both the Volxen and Dunstral lynch wagons).

Let's face it though, Volxen was no hard lynch. There wasn't an uphill struggle to make their wagon/lynch viable. If Volxen had been mass-town cred,
then cased
, then maybe you would give massive kudos to the people who pro-actively pushed his wagon, but no.

Dead weight scum is dead weight scum.
Wait... Keyser literally said at the start of D2 that I decided to "hold the course with the more difficult Volxen wagon". Why does he suddenly think the volxen lynch wasn't hard at all? It feels like he's just sticking to the explanation that best fits with his current read of me -- if he's town reading me, then the volxen wagon was impressive and there wouldn't be any reason for me to jump back on him, if he's scum reading me, then the volxen wagon is a piece of cake and it wouldn't be hard at all for scum to pull off a bus.
In post 2096, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 2061, Reundo wrote:And I only did it last gameday because it was largely during the weekend when I generally don't have much time to play mafia, and by the time I did have the time to write a catch-up the worst was already lynched.
Excuses excuses.

You do realise how long the game days are?

You watched us miss lynch The Worst.




In post 2050, Reundo wrote:VOTE: Keyser Söze

It's pretty much either him or Toranaga at this point, but Keyser is definitely the scummier one by a longshot. There's just zero world where any of Irrelephant/Nauci/Eragon flips scum.
Explain to me
how you are so sure
?

I've studied every post and tried to be as attentive as possible but even I would fully town clear 'Irrelephant/Nauci/Eragon' - where is the paranoia to rationalize and do the due diligence homework to support any of your reads?

It was me or the worst yesterday, and now me and Tora today? I knew you were lining up misslynches as soon as I realised you weren't reading the thread/analysing/revising your reads.

You don't even have the interactions to be so locked into confirmation bias either (like I was with Eragon)
So now I'm scum because I'm not paranoid enough for his liking? OK then. And it'll be reasonable for me to think it would be Keyser and Tora today if the former was a town-read, the latter was a null-read, and everyone was town. I can't possibly think one of my town-reads was scum. And him trying to brush off his scum-read of Eragon as being "locked into confirmation bias" rubs me the wrong way.

In conclusion, it's clear that Keyser is very likely to be the last scum. He defended himself a lot the whole game, and it was clear it was more suited to driving suspicion away from him then actually attempting to scum-hunt off of people scum-reading him. His only scum-reads D1 were either those who were directly scum-reading him or were heavily influenced by the opinions of others. He never gave a clear stance on volxen, and it was evident through his own scum-hunting criteria that he should've been a lot more suspicious of volxen. He constantly shifted his read on Dunnstral with very little indication between each transition. His flip-flopping on his read of me is even more suspicious, and there's many moments of him blatantly contradicting himself to try to push my lynch -- what he once thought was towny of me is now apparently scummy, what he once thought was a hard lynch (volxen's lynch) is now apparently not a hard lynch at all. His criteria for scum-reading people is not consistent at all and as a whole he seems content to just go with the flow and align his opinions with the majority of the player-base. There's hardly a shred of town in him when you really break down his play, and I'd be beyond surprised if Keyser flips town here.

So that's my Keyser ISO done. I think I'm going to work on ISO'ing Toranaga next since he's the next likely to be scum, but even his play is incredibly towny when compared with Keyser. I'm pretty confident that Keyser is just the answer here, but I'll probably ISO everyone else anyways just to double check, but if for whatever I reason I don't get to it then just know that Keyser needs to be lynched, period.
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Post Post #2173 (ISO) » Sun Sep 30, 2018 5:42 am

Post by Keyser Söze »

- My 180 on both Dunnstral and The Worst is the purist thing we will witness this game.

We would have lynched scum 3 days in row until TW made that ‘I could lynch Keyser Söze to save my own ass’ post instead of following through with his scum read of you.

He should have made himself expendable and kept faithful to his reads (his Sith-like survivalistic play looked last ditch scummy). Maybe he really just didn’t want stop playing with this playerlist?


- Again, defensiveness isn’t scummy. But if you think my defensiveness has been scummy it will be a scum tell you will need to learn that isn’t that accurate.


- In the end I wouldn’t say I’ve had a 10/10 game, but I’m happy to have voted/killed two scum. If you don’t think my trajectory on either wagon doesn’t win me enough town cred that’s not my concern. If I was scum, town cred would be the only thing I would be concerned with.

- the flip flopping is part of my new growth as a town player. There is nothing wrong with being wrong. Use your teammates. Humility before stubbornness. Do not be blinded by confirmation bias. No one is a closed case. I still put too much weight into WIFOM though (see my defence of Dunnstral).
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Post Post #2174 (ISO) » Sun Sep 30, 2018 6:45 am

Post by Keyser Söze »

FTR, even if that scum narrative (my interactions with Volxen and Dunnstral) look plausible - even I cooked up quite a convincing scum narrative about Toranaga in my head (in relation to the Volxen wagon), but after I realised town are allowed to look bad, and once I took my head out of the hole of trying to connect every post to Volxen, I concluded I was reading too much into inncocent behaviour.



I’ve still got to see your complete game view. You appear stuck in all your reads, but I see no evidence of how you’ve become so planted and entrenched in this fixed readslist and PoE. Usually if a player has all these walls up they have the supporting foundation to reflect how they got there.

Before today you had around 30 posts... and in my eyes 3 misslynches you were going to persue for the scum win.

So unless you have a secret PT which you’ve been making notes alongside this game you are either:


- town who has become so disconnected with the game since D1 for IRL reasons...

- scum who is working through the viable misslynches...




If you’re town you basically have to convince me to lynch one of my town reads.


(Obviously I’ll be re-evaluating my town reads today too, when I get back on my laptop).
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