Open 739: Epic Duel [Game Over]

[BuJaber]

VOTE: wh4t
Whaat?

[BuJaber]

Two guns walk into a bar.
One of them turns to the other and says "May I ask you a question?" The other replies 'Shoot!'.

[BuJaber]

so many cheesy jokes

pew pew
VOTE: shoshin

You know why right?

Because it's Gorgunzola time.

Okay that's my last one I promise

[BuJaber]

Last time town rushed it and got another townie killed. Then day 2 scum did it. Then town was like derp he must be town. Then scum shoot me for saying the guy was probably scum (i think thats why)died.

lol, I was thinking of reading people this way...

btw, the game is nightless, so isn't dueling in the early game phases like super harmful?

Because of white flag? Maybe but like ... towncred + potentially killing a townie + veng kill if they lose.

[BuJaber]

VOTE: ejji
I townread RC .. call me a sucker.
But yeah ejji's posts feel very LAMIST right now.

[BuJaber]

Last time town rushed it and got another townie killed. Then day 2 scum did it. Then town was like derp he must be town. Then scum shoot me for saying the guy was probably scum (i think thats why)died.

lol, I was thinking of reading people this way...

btw, the game is nightless, so isn't dueling in the early game phases like super harmful?

Because of white flag? Maybe but like ... towncred + potentially killing a townie + veng kill if they lose.

wait, what?
are you talking about town or mafia? I'm not following

Garmr was saying scum have no incentive to duel. I was correcting him.

[BuJaber]

Wait I misread the quotes.. ejji was saying scum have no incentive to duel not you.

[BuJaber]

If the scumslip is legit Wh4t is town.
I don't think Walt wagons his buddy in RVS.

[BuJaber]

I was thinking your outburst felt forced, I mean you practically said it unprovoked just because someone joked about dealing you.

Not a day 1 without some RC tale of woe.

@garmr - who have you played with before from this playerlist?

[BuJaber]

I'm going to assume that anyone who starts a duel on D1 is scum, unless it's RC, in which case he's confirmed town.

Was this serious?

I'm probably gonna duel Radiant for the giggles.

Please don't do this

Are you saying you thought you would join this game and NOT get dueled day 1 regardless of your alignment?

Why would that be the case?

nvm if Shoshin had that read as early as she did then I am a little less skeptical of her claim to be able to read me.

What does this even mean? How does her read on someone else affect her ability to read you?

Not so convinced on Ejjnami scum

Walt has very high scum equity here

What changed your mind?

[BuJaber]

Wh4t replace out if this game or I am duelling you.

Wtf.. where is this coming from?

[BuJaber]

Oh really.. huh TIL

I've played once with each. Both times they were town. What do you think makes her scum?

[BuJaber]

..............................................
..............................................................
Okay I'm dropping it

[BuJaber]

Damn man why you gotta make this sadder than it is.

[BuJaber]

I'll catch another scum in six days

@everyone can I get some reads?

I'm not going to talk about you.

Ejji and Nick are my scumleans..

PP is null {PP + Walt not a team}

Garmr seems townie

[BuJaber]

anyway.

@Bujaber talk to me about reads
@Shoshin I'm going to tell someone to duel you if you don't do anything before I die. do something.
@NicholasCage were you planning to play the game?

I don't think I can talk about you withour breaking site rules. Ask me about anyone else.

Garmr I felt seemed town because he was the only one discussing setup in a way that I felt was very well and clearly thought.
- trying to increase odds of lynching scum
- using past games' mistakes to change the approach this game
- discouraging early duels

I don't care if he's right or wrong about the strategy the fact all 3 of those were apparent in his setup spec looks to me like town thinking instead of scum thinking.

I don't know how you townread PP before he posted.

I don't really know most of the playerbase and they're not talking much. Tw rep in is ... void of any apparent agenda.. probably town.

say what you want about my actions

no one was required to vote me.

You made us choose between a slot that did not post and you, the instigator of a duel for personal reasons.

If we vote neither of you scum get a choice of who dies. So that's not an option.

Unless PP scums it up you're getting lynched.

[BuJaber]

Is it because I'm not small and yellow?

[BuJaber]

Okay

How do you read garmr?

[BuJaber]

PP what are your reads?

[BuJaber]

RC saying I'm scum is by far the towniest thing he's said all game. I'd be concerned if he wasn't saying that.

Why?

[BuJaber]

the worst is scum, 100%

Why?

Ejji, also scum.

Why?
And does this mean you think garmr is town?
If not do you think they can be SvS?



PP why does RC's alignment make a difference to you repping in or not? And did you know he duelled your slot before repping in?

Ejji's confusion feels fake.

[BuJaber]

Do you trust RC's reads more than yours?

[BuJaber]

I believe that you wouldn't be okay with getting lynched if you were scum and he was town. I believe that you wouldn't be okay with getting lynched if you were town and you were scumreading RC.
I don't believe RC would shoot his own partner d1.

So which one of you do you want to live tomorrow?

[BuJaber]

Not according to PP it's not.

[BuJaber]

PP is so town right now man did you read his answers to my questions and circumstances of his rep in?

[BuJaber]

RC is town. I wouldn't have replaced in if I didn't think he was.

BuJaber is still scum. Ejj is mebee. WorstBird is balancing between right now. Walt I dunno. Garmr prob town. Shoshin...not sure if I can townread, but townlean? Io is town that will probably end up scum. Nic Cage feels off so I'm going to put him in the middle with WorstBird right now until I can figure it out.

tfw RC is the only good townread you have and it's D1.

PP why does RC's alignment make a difference to you repping in or not? And did you know he duelled your slot before repping in?

I wouldn't want to lose a duel to scum!RC...I don't mind to town!RC. Yes, I knew he dueled my slot before requesting to replace it. It's the reason why I replaced in...this slot was never not going to end up losing the duel, and I'm quite sure that most people don't want to rep in to a gladiated slot, let alone one against RC.

I agree with 2 out of 3 of his scum reads. I trust RC to influence this town more than I can.

p-edit

I've already answered that.

@ejj ^ the quotes you asked for

VOTE: RC

[BuJaber]

My read on PP is strong and from I see so far this playerlist is too stubborn to listen to anyone.

[BuJaber]

Ejj and Nicholas Cage are, I think, town no matter what universe this is

Based on what?

And no you're absolutely wrong about PP. He's the obvious townie among you. You asked for time and I gave you it before voting you. I was never voting PP after he answered my questions.

You're trying to justify duelling someone who hasn't posted because you're about to be lynched.

This is either a gambit or a game throw and everyone who knows knows you're far more capable than throwing the game no matter what your personal reasons were.

The Maria game is now over so I can say that I've seen you have a personal beef with Tora and it didn't seem to affect your judgement. It certainly didn't make you lolvote someone or jump to a bunch of premature conclusions.

And in fact you replaced out when you realized you were wrong on Tora and you let your feelings get in the way but here you're trying to spin this like you solved the game because of your shitty duel.

If you were town and cared you would have replaced out. Wh4t didn't magically appear in the game. You knew they were playing from day 1.

[BuJaber]

RC in your own words describe the difference between Garmr's scum and town metas?

Because I've not seen his scum game but I've seen his towngame and stubbornness/AtE/fighting are all part of the deal.

Like he and gustavo might have a shot at being worse than you and Tora if you had a competition of dysfunctional pairings in game.

[BuJaber]

Also how the fuck do you imagine PP reacting there if he were scum?

Actually think about his play and tell me if it makes sense. His play never makes sense if he's scum and you're town.

If he were a noob maybe I can see him giving up if going against you but PP? Nah.

[BuJaber]

You want to talk about your reads or not?

Why would PP ever be scum with his entrance?
Why is Nick/Ejji/sho town?
What is the difference between scum!garmr and town!garmr?

[BuJaber]

@RC Yes I want to because if you're town your reads are meaningless without reasoning. Like except for walt and Io and PP and garmr the rest looks like pure guessing from your end. So like where is the confidence coming from?

[BuJaber]

I also can't talk RC!meta or self!meta until some games are finished so we only have other people to talk about.

[BuJaber]

Yes I do and your scumread on me was way before that post.

[BuJaber]

Frankly I wouldn't care so much if you hadn't played the setup before. But you and garmr both have, both are active and are both suspecting each other.

[BuJaber]

You're suggesting we lynch garmr. If both of you are town we are going to lose two veterans of the setup.
Town or scum each of your thoughts on this game are going to be more useful for analysis than someone who hasn't played before.

Not for reading them based on their posts but to try and guess how they'd duel or how they'd act around duels.

And then considering there's daychat if any setup veterans are scum and are teammates with a setup newbie they'd probably be coaching them in the PT. Going to be useful for associatives.

[BuJaber]

You misunderstood the point.
I'm saying you should post your thoughts fully because you're a veteran of the setup.

I'll grill garmr just as hard if he's up for a lynch.

Same with ejji and same with Io.

[BuJaber]

It's actually laughable how bad you think my scumgame is. I do only one thing well as scum. Mess with associatives.

If I were scum there'd be zero chance of garmr being scum with me.

Pedit : nope you expressed false invitation for people to pick your brain before you get lynched. I have expressed very clearly why I think you should be lynched instead of PP. But you keep spinning my vote into some twisted version of reality that serves your agenda. If you were being genuine and regretful you would have dropped your attitude long ago and actually tried to use your time wisely. You actually attempted to justify your duel at one point. Your regret and your willingness to work with others are both clearly fake.

[BuJaber]

lelelelelelelelel clearly fake okay so what are you gonna do when I flip town?

Probably never play this setup with you again. Wouldn't trust your trigger happy finger.

[BuJaber]

So you now have neither talked more about your reads nor did you ignore the 'scumfuck'.

[BuJaber]

@RC - you're trying to spin things to fit your version of what happened. This is what actually happened:

You duelled wh4t before anyone had a chance to sort either of you. I did not form an opinion at that time.
When I engaged PP he obvtowned. I really don't see this kind of play from PP. No way he replaces in to a scum slot being duelled by you and then just doesn't even try to get you lynched. But he was saying he thought that you were town and as town you'd be better for town than he would. You also had stated around that time that you would be coming back with extra reads/thoughts. So I waited for your response while evaluating whether PP is right about you having an influence on this playerlist.

But given the reactions of people, namely garmr, ejji, shoshin, and Io, and even Nick to some extent, I disagreed with PP on you having a real influence. Even Walt who's new didn't seem that inclined to follow you. So there was no reason to keep you alive and risk letting you get away with a scum gambit over PP who is locktown imo.

Despite this I still tried to engage you to get more explanation out of you for all to see in case you are in fact town. But your reaction has been incredibly scummy. Your sudden desire to talk your way out of the lynch is in direct conflict with your earlier resignation.

Knowing what I do know about you you would have replaced out or at least fought them in public if you had personal issues with someone before you'd make a snap decision like dueling them.

The only thing that could have been classified as me townreading you was a CONDITIONAL associative read with Walt. Because I don't think you would have pointed out a hypothetical scumslip if you were his partner.

[BuJaber]

It's Nick-RC actually. With 3rd being someone RC has shaded so ejji or walt.

And if RC flips town it's definitely Io!scum for the TMI she's exhibiting. Otherwise why would town!Io be betting the game on his reads when he hasn't flipped yet.

[BuJaber]

And if RC flips town it's definitely Io!scum for the TMI she's exhibiting. Otherwise why would town!Io be betting the game on his reads when he hasn't flipped yet.

That's interesting. What's the TMI from Io? Just that she agrees with RC?

You know, after reading that last page I might change my reads.
I'd be willing to forgo killing gramr immediatly since I'm 99% certain Gramr v Ejj is TvS and Ejj sounded pretty scummy during that last page.

In fact. If Bujaber flips scum today I'm instadueling Ejj so we can end this game sooner.
If he flisp town, I dunno. But I can guarantee is BuJaber flips scum so will Ejj.

Actually no, I know what's going on if BuJaber flips town.
It'd have to be Garmr-FAQ as a scum team.
Yeah, pretty sure we can't lose this.

The way she's planning the lynches and coming up with these associations based on flips of people OTHER than RC. It feels like a lot of committment on reads that would be entirely flipped if RC flips scum. Like it's quite thourough in that it talks about 2-4 lynches in advance but the whole thing depends on RC being town and would be a wasted effort otherwise.

[BuJaber]

VOTE: Io

[BuJaber]

Hey guys!

Welcome to the game!

Now join me in lynching faq

What do you think about BrightEyed / Io slot?
Did you read my case?

Why were you voting FAQ during the duel? Why not take a position on the RC/PP thing and walk us through it?

Like if you really townread RC and thought he was better off alive also why did you not try to push for PP lynch harder?

[BuJaber]

I also think there is scum guaranteed no matter your alignment between Irrelephant11(ejjinami) and Shoshin. Because the early bits of your wagon look town to me (Bujaber and penguin).

I'm unperturbed about all on my wagon except Shoshin.

What about shoshin?

[BuJaber]

Push on shoshin is kinda weak.
Why is her naked vote scummy? And why pick her out when I did the same thing but nobody talked about me?

That said, @ele where did you get all the shoshin and RC stuff? I was going to say why are we speaking about shoshin's inner thoughts and emotions but she just confirmed her motovation for joining.. did they discuss it in signups?

[BuJaber]

So you wouldn't have joined if you though she were scum?

Also what do you think about garmr's suggestion with the duels? ('Force' two people to duel and lynch both)

[BuJaber]

Actually, yeah, I guess I wouldn't have

I think it's against the spirit of the setup
It's probably strictly pro-town in terms of EV but idk if I like it personally
I won't argue for or against it if most players do/don't want it

I didn't get the impression that people liked it but it sounded really good to me. I haven't played the setup before though so I wanted a 2nd opinion.

[BuJaber]

I think Light will be easier to sort than Walt. New player vibes throw you off.
All I could tell for sure was that Walt and RC are not buddies because no way RC brings up a potential slip like that.

But in general I don't think scumslips based one singular words or phrases are reliable.. this also applies to NC here. We can easily read into it because of his phrasing but I think it could easily just be awkward phrasing. If he said "fypov you're town" would it still seem like a slip?

Unless you're saying he wouldn't say the whole "your pov" thing as town? That would be a more reliable tell if there was meta to back it up.

[BuJaber]

Is this the fabled Penguin... Power?

[BuJaber]

I asked him the same question about his duel vote and not pushing for your lynch etc. And he didn't respond to me.

[BuJaber]

I wanna know where this anger was when RC was alive.

[BuJaber]

VOTE: FA_Q2

For voting an empty slot. Give the new person a chance, I say.

I never understood this mentality..

If someone thinks a slot is scummy, and they place a regular vote not a lynch or something close to a lynch like L-1, then why is it scummy? The rep out doesn't clear the slate.

[BuJaber]

VOTE: FA_Q2

For voting an empty slot. Give the new person a chance, I say.

I never understood this mentality..

If someone thinks a slot is scummy, and they place a regular vote not a lynch or something close to a lynch like L-1, then why is it scummy? The rep out doesn't clear the slate.

It's straight up opportunistic...

It's not though. Not when this mentality is widespread on the site. People will be hesitant to lynch the replacement. You have to work harder to push it through.

[BuJaber]

Creature are you caught up and if so what are your reads?

[BuJaber]

Garmr how do you read ele and ele how do you read garmr?

I think ele trusting shoshin and joining the game with that mentality is more indicative of town!sho than it is AI for ele.

[BuJaber]

Garmr how do you read ele and ele how do you read garmr?

I think ele trusting shoshin and joining the game with that mentality is more indicative of town!sho than it is AI for ele.

Correct. Shoshin either will or won't vouch for me being town at some point though, which will give you a good idea of my alignment probably?

I'll be honest I stopped reading Garmr posts at some point when spectating because they were so unpleasant. I mostly haven't read them since replacing in for the same reason. How important is it that I get a firm Garmr read?
I remember RC saying Garmr is being more toxic than he normally would be as town so maybe that's a thing? I also remember Io saying "no one is townreading you because you so unpleasant they don't want to townread you" which sounded sort of buddy-y. Actually that's more of a scumread of Io thing than anything AI for Garmr I guess.
Oh and then there's the "oh of course you were offended" thing that is a slight reason to townread Garmr I guess.

Overall I come away with a tiny townlean without reading his posts much at all.

So, same question. Is my answer important enough that I like,

have

to dive in to his posts?

Well yes .. sorting you is a big deal. So is making sure my read on garmr continues to make sense.

Ejji was a little scummy and garmr SR'd him strongly. Figured this is a good way to check your slot and see how garmr sees his replacement.

[BuJaber]

Garmr how do you read ele and ele how do you read garmr?

I think ele trusting shoshin and joining the game with that mentality is more indicative of town!sho than it is AI for ele.

I think it's null

but when compared to eji slot I'm not really hard scum reading him as much. Still on my to sort list but a lower priority.

ele trusting shoshin. Is null

I think it points to to town!shoshin because if ele repped into a town slot we can trust the read, and if he repped into a scum slot I think he would still say that to make him sound believable and/or to pocket shoshin.

That leaves SvS but that would be rather ballsy of ele and I'm leaning town for shoshin anyway based on this weak push on her and her response to it.

[BuJaber]

Garmr how do you read ele and ele how do you read garmr?

I think ele trusting shoshin and joining the game with that mentality is more indicative of town!sho than it is AI for ele.

I think it's null

but when compared to eji slot I'm not really hard scum reading him as much. Still on my to sort list but a lower priority.

ele trusting shoshin. Is null

I think it points to to town!shoshin because if ele repped into a town slot we can trust the read, and if he repped into a scum slot I think he would still say that to make him sound believable and/or to pocket shoshin.

That leaves SvS but that would be rather ballsy of ele and I'm leaning town for shoshin anyway based on this weak push on her and her response to it.

I'm not liking this logic. If ele posts trust of shoshin regardless of ele's alignment, I contend that ele would post trust of shoshin regardless of shoshin's alignment too. Your post also ignores the possibility of town!ele misreading scum!shoshin. Is there a particular reason you reject that possibility?

Calculated probability.

Higher chance of scum!ele posting that if shoshin is town than not posting it.
Higher chance of town!ele correctly reading a player he knows very well than not.

Also for ele to be town and shoshin to be scum it would mean all 3 of these have to be true: ele is wrong on his read, I am wrong on my read, shoshin is sheeping me as scum. Which I don't think is likely either. I did very well in my only previous game against scum!shoshin. I think she would try to discredit my reads as scum to protect her teammates. I could maybe see her pocketing me if this setup didn't have the white flag mechanic but since it does, me getting pocketed by shoshin would not be enough.

[BuJaber]

I don't agree that FAQ was being opportunustic and I think you're scum. Also what info could you possibly bring in this setup?

[BuJaber]

I'm not going to be here around deadline.. if someone wants to present a case they strongly believe in for why we shouldn't lynch BEF or why we should lynch someone else you have around 2 hours

[BuJaber]

@Garmr - That could fit with the shoshin kill. Shoshin was sheeping her townreads, mainly RC and me.

VOTE: FAQ

[BuJaber]

If you think it is me and creature then why not use my vote there and hang creature. You can hang me after.

Because if Creature is town it is easier to read him than almost anyone.

[BuJaber]

VOTE: FAQ

I think we would have gotten more info if you waited. The duel forces people between 2 choices it discourages people from talking about the rest of the players.

We could have also made creature duel him or something like that.

[BuJaber]

@mod - just to be sure.. can a player who initiated a duel on a particular day, initiate a duel again on a later day if they survive?

I don't see why not just wanted to know for sure.

[BuJaber]

Why duel a player WITHOUT at least trying to push them and get them lynched FIRST. You know, when you can refine your read, possibly find out more, see reactions to the wagon.

This is a good point .. why didn't you bring it up last duel?

Now you're being duelled you would say anything to live.
It's not enough to change my mind on garmr.

This setup sort of encourages selfishness with the duels.
"F you all.. it's me or him" it's not AI.

[BuJaber]

I voted already I don't know why my vote didn't count.

I voted before and after the duel was initiated

VOTE: FAQ

I don't understand what your first point is FAQ.
As for the rep-in fair enough.

[BuJaber]

I voted already I don't know why my vote didn't count.

I voted before and after the duel was initiated

VOTE: FAQ

I don't understand what your first point is FAQ.
As for the rep-in fair enough.

How so?

RC dueled a slot that had not posted a single post. He dueled because he does not like the player PP replaced into - not to play. That was admitted.

So you're saying because we know it was personal there was no point in asking him why he didn't try to push and sort the slot instead of duelling?

I think Nic/creature is scum but if scum with FAQ doesn't really make sense for nic to vote him so many times.
And creature isn't lurking lol.

@garmr - haven't you played this setup before?

[BuJaber]

So who won in your last game? Scum? If town won you would have seen it in action.

[BuJaber]

As mentioned earlier, this game is conditioned as Nightless! Since no Night Phases exists, the Sharpshooters do not have a factional night kill ability. Instead, they are Vengeful and may kill any player of their choosing after being removed from the game if they've either lost a duel or have been lynched.

You didn't get killed at night.
If scum killed you it means they got lynched and vengekilled you.
So not a perfect victory.
But either way if scum won it makes sense that you didn't see white flag implemented. A little suspicious that you didn't research what it means twice now. Do you normally join open games without reading the setup?

[BuJaber]

Just thought it weird FAQ's point wasn't brought up earlier so I asked..but to be honest I forgot he replaced in late.

And garmr I'm trying to make sense of your duel coming from the guy who was talking so much day 1 about optimal town duelling and maximizing its potential and all that which was my main reason for townreading you. Also I tend to get paranoid about people pocketing me so I like to reevaluate townreads.

[BuJaber]

Alright.. would be pretty ballsy to duel and then say this as scum

[BuJaber]

If we lynch town this duel we won't lynch the other

I thought you were scumreading garmr?

[BuJaber]

I think shoshin had to die for a reason

Last mention of Walt by her says he's town.

I trust PP and garmr to be town. All the rest are fair game

PP/garmr thoughts on ele?

[BuJaber]

VOTE: irrelephant

[BuJaber]

8 hours left and light is the main lynch is light. I have a feeling he will flip town

Huh?

I think that's a deadline for ele not the day

[BuJaber]

I don't think it's PP.

What's the case on LE? Because I think we need to look at the shoshin kill. I don't think a scum team with LE(walt) shoots shoshin.

[BuJaber]

Okay
Where you at right now?

Do you know garmr?
I've only experienced his town game first-hand. Playstyle can get on people's nerves but I felt he handled himself well when pressured and it would be pretty ballsy to duel FAQ like he did as scum when earlier he made this big speech about how careful we have to be with dueling.

That leaves you, creature and LE.

[BuJaber]

@PP - how well can you read creature? Or is it just the activity tell?

[BuJaber]

Nick did want FAQ dead for a long time and that anger towards RC that only materialized after his death was really weird.

Apart from that his posting hasn't been particularly noteworthy.

[BuJaber]

If you think it was TMI, I can quote some posts

Yeah I think that would be helpful actually.

I couldn't play this game to my fullest because I thought I like had to read all pages and comment everywhere before expressing my reads.

What does this mean?

[BuJaber]

You do have a looot of posts for a rep in actually. Sure most of them are non-posts but still I would think you'd be a little lurky. Especially that nick was a suspected slot, only RC TR'd him if I recall.

[BuJaber]

I think he said that because of the votes.

I can see the logic but I don't agree because the only things that the last 2 scum can't do is hammer or duel their partner. Voting is one way to sow doubt or it'd be too obvious.

[BuJaber]

lol he was more obvtown than me

You're messing with my head now because I could swear that PP only changed his read after you repped in and garmr didn't like Nick and FAQ obviously wasn't townreading the guy who wanted him dead.

That's at least 4 of us.

Anyway reading back it's suspicious that ejji had no interactions with Io except about the duelling mechanic and one post to explain a "misunderstanding" apparently. One thing I can be sure of skimming through their argument again is that ele and garmr are never partners here.

Pedit - you know it's still lylo+1 yeah?

[BuJaber]

Creature the posts you quoted are a big reason why I have a problem with your slot.

His replaceout post is a complete 180 turn from the guy who kept saying RC is worth saving more than PP and who got mad at garmr for "making RC an easy mislynch".

His anger at garmr feels genuine.. but his anger at RC feels fake and his irritation at the game feels fake. There was no logical progression, no indication he was feeling those things. I only thought he had an issue with garmr and even with that he seemed to calm himself pretty damn well. So it just doesn't add up.

[BuJaber]

I just think the only vengekill scum can perform in the game is probably not something they picked haphazardly. It's making me doubt any suspicions I had about the slot

[BuJaber]

I just think the only vengekill scum can perform in the game is probably not something they picked haphazardly. It's making me doubt any suspicions I had about the slot

this point feels like it's going somewhere but... where

Just that LE doesn't make sense

[BuJaber]

I had doubts about Nicolas early on, but I like him more in 331 and 334

That's Io's first mention of Nick. The "doubts" were never explained. Then just has him as a townread the whole game until her last post:

I'm going to say Nicolas, Shoshin, and Walt are town since I can't see any clear connections from them to any other player indicating they be scum. Plus Nicolas is pretty townie.

I'm unsure about the rest of the players though.

I think the scum team is Ejj, Penguin, and Bujaber though.
.

I think this grouping indicates ejji - nick are her buddies. Both of them she doesn't really talk to directly (except the one debate early game with ejji about duels which is pretty safe). And singling out Nick like that from her 3 townreads.

That plus the shoshin kill which I feel implicates ele given his entrance..

I really think we need to lynch ele or creature

[BuJaber]

1 among her scumreads and 1 amomg her townreads

Though she did have an undeclared null list.. let me see who was alive at the time. Garmr and who

Pedit - with the shoshin kill I'm favoring ele and PP seems unwilling to vote for creature here

[BuJaber]

Yeah so that last post of Io was after the duel ended. So only garmr in the null pile.. I doubt she'd do that deliberately with a buddy

[BuJaber]

Oh FAQ also she left out

[BuJaber]

Pedit - with the shoshin kill I'm favoring ele and PP seems unwilling to vote for creature here

If we lynch Creature, and he flips town, does that change any of your reads or will you still want Elephant?

I'd reevaluate you and garmr I think. I'm not sure if he flips town which of you/garmr's actions is TMI-indicative the townread or the vote. Because I don't think you two are ever partners, and both of you seem pretty obvtown to me and I don't like to assume I'm wrong on a strong read until I see evidence I'm looking at the game in the wrong way.

[BuJaber]

Garmr have you said why you don't think it's ele?

[BuJaber]

You're still thinking that partners would never vote each other here, which everyone is telling you is wrong..
But either way looks like ele is not happening today
VOTE: Creature

[BuJaber]

Okay back to this
VOTE: ele
He's just being sheepy at this point. Plus the shoshin kill and Io interactions.

Creature you just keep getting mad when voted but you don't comment on my cases.

[BuJaber]

As soon as I stir the pot people get active then I get the artificial as fuck scum reads from pp and creature. It's like everyone else was complaisant with LE being the lynch with out considering who his scum partner could be or what they would do if is town.

Okay back to this
VOTE: ele
He's just being sheepy at this point. Plus the shoshin kill and Io interactions.

Creature you just keep getting mad when voted but you don't comment on my cases.

Man, those are pretty scummy.

Could it be Buj + Garmr trying to tie themselves hard to LE?

\
I had this thought but it would make me sad

Look how active Creature and PP get now despite them not really posting much before.

alright there's too many partner options here this is dumb

Also why does being sheepy make me scum
Like the only way I'm scum is if none of the people I'm sheeping my vote onto are scum
Meh I guess you might suggest that as long as my last vote is on town, I'm likely scum, but imo it shows my lack of info
Not loving how BuJ just spent like 72 hours "coming to the realization" that the Shoshin kill means I'm scum - it didn't read like a real progression (the conclusion seemed implied at the start)

It was pretty clear I entered today with 3 suspects you, creature and LE. And I've been working on sorting y'all, hence the reread of Io and the analysis of the shoshin kill.

I don't think the shoshin kill excludes creature hence the earlier vote. But I do think it excludes LE

@creature - ele's vote on you was just doing what garmr asked.. and PP's supposed scumread of you never materialized. I don't know where you're getting that he's willing to vote you from. His actions say otherwise.

You AtE is clearly working on everyone though so good job with that.

[BuJaber]

Way I see it creature can either be scum with you or with PP

So if he's scum with you then PP is town and thus everytime creature posted a string of 'frustrated' posts PP reaffirmed his townread on him. The AtE has been working on PP before anyone else.

And if he's scum with PP then you're town and so the AtE is working on you.

If I'm wrong and creature is town then I'd have to reevaluate garmr townread in particular. Also PP because he may have TMI'd the fact thatcreature is town.

Game's getting confusing though I'll tell you that

[BuJaber]

His d1 play and how he got into it with RC and then nick.
Also his stubborness and emotional outbursts when getting SR'd remind me of our last game.

[BuJaber]

Lol

Except the one time where he won't be.

Why is ele town, PP?

[BuJaber]

You didn't.. I assumed based on you voting for LE and scumreading garmr also.

[BuJaber]

I agree that scum!me would bus one partner if I felt I needed to, but if I were scum with LE here I have not messed with that associative at all. Quite the opposite.

You say I mess with associative but then you jump to the most obvious association in the same post.

[BuJaber]

If creature flips town I'd reevaluate garmr.

And the PP townread became weaker when he started townreading you strongly and scumreading garmr.

LE could be scum only if someone who would kill shoshin is partners with him. That's probably everyone except garmr since shoshin was sheeping RC and RC was scumreading garmr. Considering that you 3 voted and still more or less seems happy with LE wagon that doesn't seem to be the case.

[BuJaber]

Sorry for dragging the game on guys.. I don't like giving up. Game integrity means giving it your all until the very end.

That was absolutely horrible that I was forced to destroy every shred of town cred I had

@AG - thanks for hosting.. I don't mind the release of Mafia PT.