Mini 2036: Charging Up! - Game Over

[Lady Angel]

hello world.

[Lady Angel]

VOTE: RadiantCowbells
I've never got to vote the host of a game I'm in before.

[Lady Angel]

too many lurkers

Why would you post this less than 24 hours into the game..?

Bonus points for not posting anything after calling out lurkers less than a day in, too.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Porkens

[Lady Angel]

I had no problem with Manatee's poke on slimer and I'm not sure why it caught interest between both lane and Kokichi. feels like there could be scum between those two

Vax is still a good vote IMO

too many lurkers

Why would you post this less than 24 hours into the game..?

Bonus points for not posting anything after calling out lurkers less than a day in, too.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Porkens

Lady Angel, do you really think Porkens' comment is the most scum-indicative/noteworthy thing that has happened so far? I'm surprised that this was what you felt was most important to comment on

I don't form reads very fast. So yeah, that was the thing that stuck out the most to me so far. How can you even call out "Lurkers" before there's 24 hours passed?

Probably not the most scummy thing ever but I have nothing else right now.

[Lady Angel]

I had no problem with Manatee's poke on slimer and I'm not sure why it caught interest between both lane and Kokichi. feels like there could be scum between those two

Vax is still a good vote IMO

too many lurkers

Why would you post this less than 24 hours into the game..?

Bonus points for not posting anything after calling out lurkers less than a day in, too.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Porkens

Lady Angel, do you really think Porkens' comment is the most scum-indicative/noteworthy thing that has happened so far? I'm surprised that this was what you felt was most important to comment on

I don't form reads very fast. So yeah, that was the thing that stuck out the most to me so far. How can you even call out "Lurkers" before there's 24 hours passed?

Probably not the most scummy thing ever but I have nothing else right now.

his only other post being calling the two people who voted him scum doesn't help his case.

[Lady Angel]

UNVOTE:
Still don't really tr Porkens, but I'm starting to think it's more for his style of posting than any actual read.

Not sold whatsoever on the northsidegal wagon, RC hasn't really done much to convince anyone besides practically yelling it with no substance.

Not a fan of DS's first post but more because it's arrogant than actually scummy, DS seems fairly towny to me otherwise. DS vs RC has been so much of the game for the past few pages that I can't think of any real scumreads besides RC having a wagon on someone with no explanation, which might just be a style thing.

Least towny people to me are in no order, Porkens, RC, and Lane, but I don't think all of those are scum, which makes me a little hesitant to vote anywhere.

[Lady Angel]

if you're not voting NSG when I call her scum you're fucking terrible at mafia and need to stop playing it.

Okay, first off, calm down. I didn't kill your family, I didn't steal your money, I didn't burn down your house. I asked you to make a case to convince me to vote with you. This is a ridiculous overreaction for no reason.

Not sold whatsoever on the northsidegal wagon, RC hasn't really done much to convince anyone besides practically yelling it with no substance.

I don't have to convince anyone when I've got a perfect ability to read her and no one else in this game has a perfect ability to read her.
I'm not going to make a case here: anyone can go back into games where me/NSG coincided and check if my read is accurate. it is.

This isn't a valid reason to lynch someone since you could also be scum abusing this, as Gamma pointed out. This is a game of deception, not follow the leader.

like if you're trying to build a house and an engineer tells you that a set of walls isn't going to hold the structure up and you say nah, my opinion is equally valid and I think that the set of walls will work!
then you're not just like a dumb person, which is forgivable since not everyone is smart. you're a person who is dumb and obtuse, and of these two crimes the crime of being obtuse is far more valid.

the only game I've ever mislynched her I was scum. if you're not going to vote her you should vote me.

If I'm trying to build a house and an engineer tells me that a set of walls isn't going to hold, I'd ask him why the set of walls won't hold so I know what to do next time I encounter that set of walls. Otherwise, nothing is learned.

And if you insist, VOTE: RadiantCowbells

so your reads on her don't matter. don't care. you're a random dude with no background telling the guy building your house how to build it.

vote her or assume that I'm scum pushing her or vote me. no other options.

Look, if you're trying to convince people to vote someone, you actually have to convince instead of just shouting it from the rooftops. There's a reason nobody's voted her with you, and that's because you haven't done any convincing besides throwing a fucking tantrum trying to get what you want. If I'm getting a house built, I'd want information on the house I'm living in so I know what to do if something breaks.

Cool down, be reasonable. That shouldn't be a lot to ask.

[Lady Angel]

UNVOTE:
Going to spend the night reading and see if I can come up with something for tomorrow.

[Lady Angel]

Did my homework. Think I'm ready to present.

VOTE: Northsidegal

Something about RC and NSG's de-escalation felt very off to me, and while I can't claim to be in either of their headspaces, I wanted to check it out. So I went and read through part of Lynch The Wolves, a game in which RC was Scum and NSG was town, and here's a summary of what I found:

RC, as Scum, could've pushed onto NSG using the same tactic he did here (claiming to be able to read her 100% of the time), but likely didn't too much because it would've looked bad when NSG flipped town. However, RC did vote on NSG at one point, when NSG was the leading wagon, and unlike this game, backed off quickly. Why didn't we have a repeat of this game? Because RC knew NSG was town. He even brought up his ability to read her 100% of the time just to discredit a fellow scum's SR on her. So it makes sense that RC's different reaction indicates a different situation here.

Reading through the rest of the game, I started to see shades of this RC when he attempted to bus a partner, and while he got more frustrated there than he did here, it was still close enough for me to draw a few conclusions:

- RC gets like this when he really believes he's correct and isn't being listened to
- RC gets like this when he's trying to bus someone and isn't being listened to

Their de-escalation felt natural enough from the prespective of someone seeing it from the outside for me to think it's the first one with a slight possibility of it being a bus, but either way in this line of thought NSG has a higher-than-other chance of flipping scum.

[Lady Angel]

- RC gets like this when he really believes he's correct and isn't being listened to
- RC gets like this when he's trying to bus someone and isn't being listened to

Are these situations really different though? Like if I believe I'm correct cuz scum vs bussing is it really all that different?

I mean I guess I'm not doing myself a whole lot of favors here but intrinsically me getting pissed off because I'm not listened to isn't gonna be that different whether I'm town or scum at the time.

This is fair.

Pushing on NSG was, for whatever reason, extremely taxing on me mentally and it's not something that I can deal with today. I can't do it. I don't think she's town, but I can't push her.
I would rather kick the can to later in the game, I'm not afraid of NSG suddenly walking away and not getting lynched and if I'm somehow wrong I'm sure she'll prove it to me.
And for the record: what you have done is proven that I believe in what I was pushing. I did believe in what I was pushing. I don't want to push it right now.

And if you say so, I'll believe it for now. Really not sure what to make of DS right now but the fact that he keeps trying to tie different people to me is very interesting. Even more interesting is the fact that he's not really trying to push any of his reads besides me, and even then he's not really pushing his supposed read on me as much, since roughly 90% of his posts are directed at RC or are outright filler. He's probably scummy but I'm going to leave my vote off for now and read his ISO more, since I might just be annoyed at him being really arrogant as opposed to actually sring him. Will be back tomorrow.

[Lady Angel]

Did my homework. Think I'm ready to present.

VOTE: Northsidegal

Something about RC and NSG's de-escalation felt very off to me, and while I can't claim to be in either of their headspaces, I wanted to check it out. So I went and read through part of Lynch The Wolves, a game in which RC was Scum and NSG was town, and here's a summary of what I found:

RC, as Scum, could've pushed onto NSG using the same tactic he did here (claiming to be able to read her 100% of the time), but likely didn't too much because it would've looked bad when NSG flipped town. However, RC did vote on NSG at one point, when NSG was the leading wagon, and unlike this game, backed off quickly. Why didn't we have a repeat of this game? Because RC knew NSG was town. He even brought up his ability to read her 100% of the time just to discredit a fellow scum's SR on her. So it makes sense that RC's different reaction indicates a different situation here.

Reading through the rest of the game, I started to see shades of this RC when he attempted to bus a partner, and while he got more frustrated there than he did here, it was still close enough for me to draw a few conclusions:

- RC gets like this when he really believes he's correct and isn't being listened to
- RC gets like this when he's trying to bus someone and isn't being listened to

Their de-escalation felt natural enough from the prespective of someone seeing it from the outside for me to think it's the first one with a slight possibility of it being a bus, but either way in this line of thought NSG has a higher-than-other chance of flipping scum.

this is like the only decent content Lady Angel has produced and it doesn't hold up to any scrutiny.

first and foremost you can't meta someone off of one game. One game is not a sample size, it is a single data point. I'd like to see if you did any homework on games where NSG was scum against town RC, or games where they were both town. like, think about this point, fundamentally

LA is using thoughts she had about how RC made pushes as scum in a single game to argue that he's making a genuine push as town in this particular game

. That's not a logical read at all, it's much more likely reverse-engineered to suit a predetermined conclusion.

next, generally the whole thing is a bunch of thoughts about RC that somehow moves the needle on NSG's alignment? You're taking him at his word that he's "100%" able to read NSG (which no one should be trusting until/unless he's confirmed town), and you're assuming he's town here for a really tenuous reason (he's not playing this particular game the exact same way he played another game as scum). Even RC would tell you he doesn't play scum the same way every game and he's famously hard to read. you even say yourself that the frustration levels don't match between games for his pushes.

finally - isn't this also partially a longer and fancier way of saying "they could both be scum" like DS did? why didn't RC take issue with the "they could both be scum" angle when LA implied it?

Of course you can't really meta someone off one game, I used Lynch the Wolves because it was the only game on the site I knew that had both them in it. Besides, there's no way I could read several games worth of RC/NSG in 16 hours without sacrificing sleep completely, which isn't realistic. It was supposed to be a quick idea of how he works, not a full course. I could definitely ISO RC in a game where he was town and NSG was scum, and would be glad to - I'd just have to find one.

And no, I'm not taking his word on it. I looked at how RC was acting at his peak of trying to lynch NSG and it matched up well with how RC tried to lynch a scum MathBlade in Lynch the wolves, right down to the frustration at not being listened to. Simply put, regardless of RC's level of read proficiency, his reaction and attempt to push her indicate that he was extremely confident in it. Does that mean it's right? No, it could be a mislynch or a scum push, but so far, from what I've seen of RC, that level of confidence seems difficult to engineer. And were it to flip town, I would be very glad to lynch RC tomorrow.

I only brought up "100% read proficiency" in the original post twice, once prefaced by the word "claiming", ie, I wasn't taking it as fact, and a second time as a direct reference to another game. In neither situation could anyone reasonably read it and come up with the conclusion you did without

really

stretching it.

Lastly, how did you get me assuming he was town out of that post when I specifically brought up that there was a chance it could be a bus, which you yourself even brought up? Yeah, right now I'd be willing to think RC isn't scum since I don't see him trying to hard bus my other two scumreads day 1 in this fashion (NSG and DS, with DS also only being bussed after subbing in), but as I said up there, if NSG flips town we lynch RC afterwards.

I sort of feel like you read that post with a lens of assuming I'm scum going into it as opposed to just... reading it? Some of the stuff you pointed out was flat-out wrong on a reading comprehension level and while it's fair that I can't meta-read someone off of one game, I also only know of/had time to read one game of his since sleep is required for the human body to function.

Next part...
VOTE: DS

There's just... nothing here for the sheer number of posts you've made. Despite claiming to scumread me since like your third post, you've made no effort to actually build a case or even convince other people to jump on, and have spent the entire game trying to tie people to me for basically nothing or getting in a catfight with RC. You've put a pretty exorbitant amount of effort into defending yourself over a low number of votes, and about 3/4s of your post have so little content it makes me think you're deliberately doing it to take attention off of one of the other scum members.

[Lady Angel]

Lady, I'm not going to quote that because I'm not going to edit it on mobile, but, your two points there were that I am posting a bunch and defending myself - neither of which I take as a negative personally. I know my own alignment so of course I'm going to defend myself or ask questions when I get pushed. That's logical. It's an easy way to gauge other peoples alignments off of a baseline. As far as how much I post, well I post on mobile so you won't get walls from me, and I have no issue with posting because the site metas I come from have more pages on day one than this game has with a deadline of only 48 hours. Get used to it.

Posting a lot is fine if it weren't for the fact that a pretty large chunk of your posts had basically no content whatsoever. Defending yourself is also fine when it's reasonable, but the fact that you threw yourself at RC for a page and a half with only one vote on you kind of wasn't.

[Lady Angel]

Scum tracker is actually fairly common? It's not as good for scum as watcher but it can still help them out potentially strong roles. I'm more surprised you've never seen one before, honestly.

[Lady Angel]

And no, I'm not taking his word on it. I looked at how RC was acting at his peak of trying to lynch NSG and it matched up well with how RC tried to lynch a scum MathBlade in Lynch the wolves, right down to the frustration at not being listened to. Simply put, regardless of RC's level of read proficiency, his reaction and attempt to push her indicate that he was extremely confident in it. Does that mean it's right? No, it could be a mislynch or a scum push, but so far, from what I've seen of RC, that level of confidence seems difficult to engineer. And were it to flip town, I would be very glad to lynch RC tomorrow.

I only brought up "100% read proficiency" in the original post twice, once prefaced by the word "claiming", ie, I wasn't taking it as fact, and a second time as a direct reference to another game. In neither situation could anyone reasonably read it and come up with the conclusion you did without really stretching it.

Lastly, how did you get me assuming he was town out of that post when I specifically brought up that there was a chance it could be a bus, which you yourself even brought up? Yeah, right now I'd be willing to think RC isn't scum since I don't see him trying to hard bus my other two scumreads day 1 in this fashion (NSG and DS, with DS also only being bussed after subbing in), but as I said up there, if NSG flips town we lynch RC afterwards.

I sort of feel like you read that post with a lens of assuming I'm scum going into it as opposed to just... reading it? Some of the stuff you pointed out was flat-out wrong on a reading comprehension level and while it's fair that I can't meta-read someone off of one game, I also only know of/had time to read one game of his since sleep is required for the human body to function.

I'm very confused by this

your argument for scum!NSG was ... what exactly? As simple as possible. I saw a bunch of questionable assertions about RC and RC meta, and nothing about NSG's play in this game. So I took your argument to be "either town!RC is right or scum!RC is bussing, either way NSG is scum". Which I just don't buy, and that's where I thought half of your argument was predicated on RC being right about NSG.

Please tell me, without using the words "RC", why NSG is scum, in your own words.

NSG has a high chance to be scum because another player's reaction lines up with what was seen of him in previous games upon hitting scum. If she isn't scum, I'm going to try and lynch that player. Logically, there's a higher than usual chance of there being scum in these two players for reasons I've already said.

I'm more surprised you've never seen one before, honestly.

if he's never seen one before, he's town.

so do you think he's lying or did you just admit that you think he's town here?

I find it incredibly hard to believe that anyone who's played a lot would really never see a scum tracker before. He doesn't even have to get it, he just has to be in a game where it flips or even a postgame if hosts on this/other sites regularly do that. It's a little hard to believe unless he's played exclusively non-role madness games.

REMEMBER THIS POST IF DS IS LYNCHED AND I AM KILLED

This... is completely awful and the mafia equivalent of walking up to a guillotine and sticking your head in it, then screaming out someone's name until the blade falls. Like, if you die because you post something like this, it's way more likely the actual mafia trying to make me look bad than getting killed because of any involvement I had, because posts like this essentially ask for it.

Second off, why would scum ever kill the one person going for their head if that person can't get anyone on the wagon with them? It just makes them look bad.

[Lady Angel]

[quote="In post 622, DS"][/quote]
Watcher is generally better than tracker for scum, but tracker can be used over it if the rest of the scumteam is strong enough as a way to balance it a little, so it's relatively common in practice.

[Lady Angel]

What do you know about the setup premise other than its 3 mafia and 10 town?

Was this stated anywhere?

[Lady Angel]

Absolutely not, and I've claimed my role with no counter.

I mean... it's a role madness game. Nobody's going to counter your role because everyone has a PR of some sort. People don't doubt that you're a tracker.

People do, however, doubt you're a town tracker.

[Lady Angel]

Please never do that again if you're town.

But doing stuff like that means you're probably not town at all, huh?

[Lady Angel]

How would one find older games on this site? I'm trying to find older RC games and study him a bit more before I say anything, but I can only see about 30 games per page or so.

[Lady Angel]

How would one find older games on this site? I'm trying to find older RC games and study him a bit more before I say anything, but I can only see about 30 games per page or so.

You need even more than that at a time?

RC as a non-hydra isn't in any of the games I can see from browsing the site that aren't lynch the wolves.

[Lady Angel]

And no, I'm not taking his word on it. I looked at how RC was acting at his peak of trying to lynch NSG and it matched up well with how RC tried to lynch a scum MathBlade in Lynch the wolves, right down to the frustration at not being listened to. Simply put, regardless of RC's level of read proficiency, his reaction and attempt to push her indicate that he was extremely confident in it. Does that mean it's right? No, it could be a mislynch or a scum push, but so far, from what I've seen of RC, that level of confidence seems difficult to engineer. And were it to flip town, I would be very glad to lynch RC tomorrow.

Actually I do have a question for you LA.

If that level of confidence is difficult for me to engineer, then doesn't NSG flipping town make me, like, wrong? If I couldn't adequately fake that 100% surety Scum V Town then...

Yeah, I was going to go into today thinking one of you was scum... and then NSG flipped town. Granted, I could be wrong and you could have faked it, but I feel like that'd be difficult to fake for anyone, especially since the cooldown felt genuine. I haven't been able to find any other games where you got even close to that angry, either, so I'm going to write it off for now and write the lynch the wolves thing as something to do with MathBlade as opposed to any sort of tell for you.

also to solely define my gameplay by the intellectual level is silly because I am a person who abides by my feelings. regardless of what I thought of her play I didn't lynch NSG yesterday and given that I had no experience of feeling like I was being stabbed when I correctly lynched NSG as scum it's not as if her being town didn't stop me from lynching her, if you think of it like that.

This is fair.

VOTE: Not_Mafia

Not mafia seems to solely exist to prod dodge or otherwise place one vote and leave (Including, as of his most recent post, voting for someone that isn't even in this game...). Porkens has also done effectively nothing and I'd be fine with his lynch too, but Not Mafia's probably more egregious.

[Lady Angel]

UNVOTE:
This wagon picked up steam suspiciously fast.

[Lady Angel]

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

Did not like that entrance one bit, nor the fight with GuiltyLion.

[Lady Angel]

VC 2.7

Kokichi Oma (3): GuiltyLion, Flavor Leaf, Kokichi Oma
Not_Mafia (1): theslimer3
lane0168 (1): RadiantCowbells
Porkens (1): Gamma Emerald
Flavor Leaf (1): Lady Angel

Not Voting (4): Vaxkiller, Porkens, Not_Mafia, ManateeDude

With 11 players alive it takes 6 to lynch

The deadline is 27 October 12am UTC-4, or in (expired on 2018-10-27 00:00:00)

Mod notes:

Is Kokichi's self-vote here accurate or a mod mistake?

[Lady Angel]

@Kokichi why are you self-voting?

[Lady Angel]

Apologies, school's been taking a lot out of me recently. Will fully catch up tomorrow.

[Lady Angel]

MS ate this post without telling me:

Reads list:
Myself
Slimer
Gamma
RC

Manateedude
Vaxkiller

Kokichi
GuiltyLion
Flavour Leaf
Porkens
Not_Mafia

Quick Reads list, I would've posted this sooner but the site ate it. I feel like the NSG kill was meant to frame RC rather than actually coming from RC, as having both his top two scumreads flip town back to back is a little too suspicious. I don't like Kokichi's self-vote at all, he wasn't anywhere near being hammered and it felt really defeatist, despite the very low amount of real pressure on him. GuiltyLion's case on me was pretty solid, but I wonder why he's so hesitant to actually vote me. That's not too far off what he claims I'm doing, does he not think he can actually lead a lynch on me? The other three are just gut feelings or inactive players, so I guess they're not too important.

@GuiltyLion

What's wrong with voting whichever of your scumreads is looking like the most likely rather than sticking to one player all day?

[Lady Angel]

MS ate this post without telling me:

Reads list:
Myself
Slimer
Gamma
RC

Manateedude
Vaxkiller

Kokichi
GuiltyLion
Flavour Leaf
Porkens
Not_Mafia

Quick Reads list, I would've posted this sooner but the site ate it. I feel like the NSG kill was meant to frame RC rather than actually coming from RC, as having both his top two scumreads flip town back to back is a little too suspicious. I don't like Kokichi's self-vote at all, he wasn't anywhere near being hammered and it felt really defeatist, despite the very low amount of real pressure on him. GuiltyLion's case on me was pretty solid, but I wonder why he's so hesitant to actually vote me. That's not too far off what he claims I'm doing, does he not think he can actually lead a lynch on me? The other three are just gut feelings or inactive players, so I guess they're not too important.

@GuiltyLion

What's wrong with voting whichever of your scumreads is looking like the most likely rather than sticking to one player all day?

RC made a post where his scum reads were Lane, NSG, DS.

I feel like NSG died so RC would tunnel my slot or get tunneled himself for scum reading 2 townies.

Why did I move up on that? You were/are voting me, shouldnt I be on the bottom?

I feel like it's more likely that RC is being framed than him gambiting and killing his own scum reads to make it look like he'd been framed. I could see that gambit as a last resort, but certainly not a night 1 play when day 1 was a mislynch.

It's not particularly ordered, except for the line breaks. Plus, possible active scum is more threatening than possible inactive scum, since inactives generally don't live very long anyways. So I'd rather sort you/kokichi/guiltylion first.

I should be higher on your townlist

Why?

Also, notice how Kokichi is on her scum reads list, but at the very top. There’s even apparently 5 scum reads she has. And yet, two of her middle tier scum reads are voting another scum read of hers, and that doesn’t mean a thing to her.

The Porkens/NM are on Slimer, one of her higher town reads, so that correlates.

But she talks about the “most likely” and that’s why her vote is there, yet the vote count has everyone at 2, including two of her other scum reads. She’s just buddying up to RC with that again.

What's the issue with Kokichi being on the top of this list? I also don't see the issue with five scumreads, I acknowledge that there isn't going to be five scum in a game, but that's where sorting comes in. It's just better to err towards suspicion.

Your point about me supposedly buddying with RC doesn't really count when his vote was cast when your predecessor was still in the game, meaning we more or less voted for two different people. You were at least tied for the lead when I voted you as well, making you the current "most likely". I haven't taken my vote off you yet because I'm under fire and that would probably not help my situation.

3/4 people with wagons right now are on Lady’s scum list.

Why is this an issue?

[Lady Angel]

@Lady - yeah, but who’s trying to frame RC? I don’t think anyone has pushed RC.

If a scumteam has the goal of killing the most active players, RC seems like a pretty natural person to frame.

That is, however, a big if, and past that I have no idea. Possibly just taking an opportunity and trying to run with it?

Alternately, the kill was not connected to RC in any way and just someone dying night 1 due to a possibly strong towngame/potentially good role/even a random kill. I just don't think it's likely that RC actually killed her himself.

[Lady Angel]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Not_Mafia

[Lady Angel]

Starting to feel like NM's double dare shit + the 'open troll vote' on me come from scum

Like I expect more in terms of actually pushing some sort of win condition if he was actually town, this game he just feels like he's trolling

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Not_Mafia

Hmm....

Both times this came after RC made a comment towards NM being potentially scum rather than trolling, but the first one was derailed because of a fast wagon, yet nothing ever came of it past that.

Pardon me for being annoyed with a troll who's doing absolutely nothing?

[Lady Angel]

What about me? I think hes trolling and I'm advocating for his lynch

Your push for a policy lynch is duly noted.

I don’t see Lady as scum pushing for a policy lynch. I see her pushing a mislynch behind the cover of it being a policy lynch/lynching a troll-antitown player.

Lady waiting for RC to express interest before going that way.

So you admit he's antitown but still think that scum!me would try to lynch an antitown player when I could hide behind said antitown player until he gets lynched instead?

[Lady Angel]

TMI townread me and DS hard

Also the shade on Gamma for the Porkens neighbor comment, and the Lady bussing.

Is it possible for you to comment on the game without trying to call me scum?

Feels? I dunno, you caught me, here. I'm just kinda pushing whatever but your asking me to think on a day 1 lynch? I usually just try and not lynch people who are seeming towny or may prove themselves town or scum on a later day and try to figure out stuff on day 2.

For instance, NM is bad lynch today because I think he will prove himself on a later day (one way or the other).

Kokichi I would be fine with because I literally can't think of a single post they have made off the top of my head, and LA sounds great for the reason you posted even tho it's not crazy strong reason.

TLDR?
I dunnno

This post is kinda awful for a lot of reasons, even ignoring the fact that he's seemingly a day behind. What differentiates NM proving himself from say, Kokichi, considering off the top of your head they probably have similar levels of content? What makes Kokichi scum if you can't think of any of his posts?

Would also appreciate a charge tonight, if anyone would be willing.

[Lady Angel]

Anyone not voting Kokichi right now is a complete IDIOT God who would be that stupid ffs

You aren't voting him either..?

Anyways, with barely over a day left, I feel like we need to come to an agreement, be it a policy lynch or just lynching whoever's in the lead or what.

I'd be willing to flip to Kokichi if nobody else wants to vote Not_Mafia.

[Lady Angel]

Are you calling me a.complete idiot angel?

That's mean

I thought we were friends I was keeping you alive

Sorry, I was wondering if it was a joke or not...

So I guess I'm a bigger idiot, huh?

I want to be friends though

[Lady Angel]

VOTE: Kokichi
Nah, not letting a wagon Pork hopped on like that go through

This vote is really, really awful and a terrible reason to put someone at L-1. What's up with it?

[Lady Angel]

I would like to hear whether Lady Angel has any updates or new thoughts

I'm inclined to believe Kokichi is lying about the cop claim. It looks pretty much like a "save my ass" claim, like why would you not investigate night 1 and then ask for charges/protection, especially if you get a useful result? then he claims roleblocked today -

I am not ascetic

. I have been town ascetic in multiple games before and I always claim that in my first post.

Kokichi - how would you say your play in this game is different than in Trapped mafia?

I can't say I'm entirely surprised by RC dying since he claimed bulletproof yesterday and more likely than not already used his one charge.

Kokichi and Flavour Leaf are probably my two big scumreads, but that's extremely tentative and I could also see a few others shuffled into there since a chunk of the playerlist is so inactive that it's hard to tell them apart. Kokichi's instant assumption that GL was aescetic plus his super last-minute claim (complete with AtE) feels wrong and quite a bit like the claim could be faked. The one-shot nature of this game also makes it more easy to fake a claim. I've never really been able to see Flavour Leaf's play as towny, since he spent yesterday trying to tie me to basically everyone while voting more or less everyone that wasn't me and the whole me + RC being buddy theories seemed to be way too small of a thing to focus on so much. Gamma and Vax's votes at the end of yesterday both soured me on them, although Vax is probably overall scummier.

I would not be surprised if I was Azazel, however, as I have never been referred to that anywhere, this was my first time playing with nearly the whole playerlist (including Not_Mafia), and I had to google it to even get a clue, I'm not sure how he expected anyone to figure this out since he was being ever-so-helpful about telling us.

As an aside, "Shadow Angel" would probably be my first choice for a fallen angel-style name.

[Lady Angel]

@Lady - Who’d I vote? You says I voted everyone but you?

I believe I only went GL and Kokichi, and I ended up town reading GL, and stayed on Kokichi the entirety of the day for the most part yesterday.

That was a blatant misrep.

Roughly a fifth of your posts made mention of me being scum, more than your posts on GL and roughly on par with the amount of effort you put into Kokichi, and you never once voted me.

Also, no - the intent was to say you voted everyone you tried to tie me to but me (possibly RC as well) despite putting an inordinate amount of focus on me. Why?

[Lady Angel]

I'm not questioning the whole two trackers thing so much as the fact that two town trackers with identical role PMs would exist in a game where everyone seems to have a different PR.

[Lady Angel]

May I be charged tonight? I'm willing to charge anyone who can confirm charging me.

Would lynch inside of Kokichi/Vax/Manatee tomorrow, probably not Kokichi if this actually flips scum. And there's no way Vax is a third tracker unless we're all secretly trackers.

[Lady Angel]

I'm going to chalk that up as a poor communication here, he could've claimed he's a charge tracker and we would've been fine.

VOTE: Flavour Leaf

[Lady Angel]

I'm a doctor. I hit GL night one and have been trying to get charged again ever since.

I don't think it's too crazy that a town doc and jailkeeper can exist on the same town, but the scum would have to be really strong to balance that out given the other roles we've seen and I have my doubts that they are. Although Jailkeeper doesn't really make sense as a scum role in a one-team thing either...

UNVOTE:

I don't know. I think it's possible, but probably not in this setup. I guess I could subscribe to the Kokichi/Gamma/Vax thing but I'm not entirely sure.

[Lady Angel]

That means Lady charged someone Night 2 if you saw them with 0.

GL can correct me on this, but I assumed his role tracks the amount of charges our main (in my case, Doctor) ability has, not the amount of charge charges we have left.

@GL am I right on this?

[Lady Angel]

I'm a town ammo cop, I can see how many charges someone has. I checked Lady Angel on N2 and found that she had 0 charges remaining, which I loosely crumbed D3

I would like to hear whether Lady Angel has any updates or new thoughts

also I have some light role related reasons to think LA is scum as well - it's not 100% indicative and I don't want to disclose fully yet but just want to note that I am surprised that nothing seemed to change for her overnight, I was expecting that she would re-evaluate or have some more substantial new thoughts to offer in response to my opening poke on her

I don't think my role is all that useful or informative, it does support her claim that she used her action N1 and I wanted to just basically leave enough info in my ISO so people could figure out what I was talking about if I were NK'd. Her claiming protective rather than any kind of investigative role is also consistent with using an action and not really having any changes in reads.

I need to set aside some time to reread and think a bit because it's crunch time and I'm worried I have a blind spot somewhere. Vax and Manatee highly likely to be scum, third could be nearly anyone as far as I'm concerned and I don't feel like I have a solid opinion yet and I'm now getting MYLO/LYLO paranoia about being wrong on Gamma or even Flavor Leaf. I actually think Kokichi claiming roleblocked N2 when he was (presumably) roleblocked on N2 makes him slightly more likely to be town - FL why do you see still him as scum despite his knowing/announcing that he was roleblocked?

Yeah, so this actually supports my theory. Me being a cop and then you being an ammo cop. Tracker/Charge Tracker, Cop/Ammo Cop, Doctor/Jailkeeper. It's possible we are all town then. Let's wait for more claims though.

This honestly makes a lot of sense and I'd believe it.

However, there's currently three protective claims (My Doc/Flavour Leaf Jailkeeper/Manatee Babysitter) and I think it'd be smartest to lynch in there for now. Manatee's probably the best one there since his claim has the least backing it right now, and he didn't offer any real explanation of his ability use or why he hadn't used it yet if it is true. I think that's a good place to start today.

VOTE: ManateeDude

[Lady Angel]

I'm a town ammo cop, I can see how many charges someone has. I checked Lady Angel on N2 and found that she had 0 charges remaining, which I loosely crumbed D3

I would like to hear whether Lady Angel has any updates or new thoughts

also I have some light role related reasons to think LA is scum as well - it's not 100% indicative and I don't want to disclose fully yet but just want to note that I am surprised that nothing seemed to change for her overnight, I was expecting that she would re-evaluate or have some more substantial new thoughts to offer in response to my opening poke on her

I don't think my role is all that useful or informative, it does support her claim that she used her action N1 and I wanted to just basically leave enough info in my ISO so people could figure out what I was talking about if I were NK'd. Her claiming protective rather than any kind of investigative role is also consistent with using an action and not really having any changes in reads.

I need to set aside some time to reread and think a bit because it's crunch time and I'm worried I have a blind spot somewhere. Vax and Manatee highly likely to be scum, third could be nearly anyone as far as I'm concerned and I don't feel like I have a solid opinion yet and I'm now getting MYLO/LYLO paranoia about being wrong on Gamma or even Flavor Leaf. I actually think Kokichi claiming roleblocked N2 when he was (presumably) roleblocked on N2 makes him slightly more likely to be town - FL why do you see still him as scum despite his knowing/announcing that he was roleblocked?

Yeah, so this actually supports my theory. Me being a cop and then you being an ammo cop. Tracker/Charge Tracker, Cop/Ammo Cop, Doctor/Jailkeeper. It's possible we are all town then. Let's wait for more claims though.

Where’s my counterpart role then

Have you claimed?

[Lady Angel]

Reminder that doctor can't be on anyone without a charge.

[Lady Angel]

I should've pushed for flavour harder. I doubt I would've gotten much support for it but I should've pushed harder.

GGs everyone.

[Lady Angel]

I should've pushed for flavour harder. I doubt I would've gotten much support for it but I should've pushed harder.

GGs everyone.

We had a plan to mislynch you even if you guiltied one of us.

if we had to, but you backed off without us having to go on you, and the Manatee thing worked how we wanted it.

I loved Kokichi's posting this game, for what it's worth. It was just funny being able to see it from the scum perspective. it was super trolly.

Yeah, I was probably screwed since I never would've gotten any support on you even if we lynched Kokichi today, sort of faking a cop claim or something.

I was actually planning to do that but I decided getting charged to have a shot of my actual ability was probably more important, and in the end it didn't matter.