Open 735: Watchmen Wanted - Game Over!


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Post Post #2275 (ISO) » Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:29 am

Post by Nauci »

In post 2272, Irrelephant11 wrote:if it's keyser, nauci and reundo deserve an award
I unvoted because I'm willing to wait for Keyser to answer Nauci's question
I am not wanting Keyser to answer me though because he has repeatedly shown me that his answer is "but town also does X"

I want YOU and Tor and Eragon to look at my points and try to follow Keyser's narratives and trains of thought
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Post Post #2276 (ISO) » Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:31 am

Post by Nauci »

In post 2273, Toranaga wrote:it's done already though, you don't get to unvote a maj
ffffffffffffffffuuuuuu that was a hammer?
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Post Post #2277 (ISO) » Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:33 am

Post by Toranaga »

ye me, irrelephant, keyser and eragon = 4
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Post Post #2278 (ISO) » Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:41 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

no keyser had unvoted I think
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Post Post #2279 (ISO) » Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:42 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

f me I ruined it didn't i
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Post Post #2280 (ISO) » Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:42 am

Post by Toranaga »

ooooooooo true

alright
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Post Post #2281 (ISO) » Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:42 am

Post by Toranaga »

nono you didn't ruin it, I didn't see reundo unvoted there
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Post Post #2282 (ISO) » Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:42 am

Post by Toranaga »

*keyser
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Post Post #2283 (ISO) » Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:43 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

In post 2274, Nauci wrote:ut then I'm out the rest of the day because I'm getting my eyes dilated again lol. BUT SOON I WILL HAVE LASIK AND SEE SUPER GUD (well, theoretically by Oct 20)
congrats!

sure I'll do the thing you asked

@tor okay phew I thought you were hammertesting reundo or keyser
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Post Post #2284 (ISO) » Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:55 am

Post by Nauci »

In post 2278, Irrelephant11 wrote:no keyser had unvoted I think
Damnit lol I was playing along after seeing your hammer tests get ruined so many times
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Post Post #2285 (ISO) » Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:57 am

Post by Nauci »

I TRIED SO HARD

AND GOT SO FAR

but in the end

Still waiting for the doooooctor
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Post Post #2286 (ISO) » Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:02 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

hahahaha I know I know it's like reverse karma or something
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Post Post #2287 (ISO) » Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:08 am

Post by Flicker »

Votecount 4.08

Keyser Söze (2)
- Reundo , Nauci
Reundo (2)
- Eragon , Toranaga

Not voting: Irrelephant11 , Keyser Söze

The deadline for Day 4 is 9:38 pm CT on Wednesday, October 10, in (expired on 2018-10-10 22:38:11).
Last edited by Flicker on Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #2288 (ISO) » Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:26 am

Post by Nauci »

Spoiler: reundo's post on Keyser iso page 2
In post 2172, Reundo wrote:Now, onto dissecting the second page of Keyser's ISO... The spoiler's tag still not working for me, so sorry for the incoming wall.
In post 1497, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 1359, Keyser Söze wrote:VOTE: Eragon

Probably gonna stay here for the rest of D2.

Dunnstral vs Eragon wagons competing makes most sense in my reads universe. Not going to give any town-scum, scum-scum association theory until we see a flip.
I may need to go back on my promise.

VOTE: Dunnstral

Sorry mate. I needed more tangible town motivation in your ISO to defend you with. In the end, I’ll have to concede and say WIFOM isn’t going to outweigh the surface level scummy actions in your D1/D2 behaviour. I hope to play again with you, but hopefully it’s in a game that engages/excites you.


Let’s end Day 2.
Now Keyser does a complete 180 on Dunnstral, despite him advocating so hard against his lynch for so long. Now that it's obvious Dunn is probably getting lynched, scum!Keyser decides the best course of action is to bus his partner to try and cash in his town-cred, which explains the abrupt transition regarding his read of Dunn.
In post 1516, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 1513, Nauci wrote:
In post 387, Reundo wrote:I don't really understand why the volxen wagon died down the way it did. The only town points he got was from northsidegal for being contradictory, and while I can sort of see where northsidegal is coming from it doesn't feel like a particularly strong town-read, and the contradictions run much deeper than mere activity. Looking back on it, post #254 is a lot more petty than I realized. I could see why some of the posts volxen mentioned could be viewed as active lurking, but to not put any more thought into players than "oh, they're active lurking, they're probably scum" is incredibly lazy and narrow-minded. It actually feels like he's afraid of contradicting himself, as if scum-reading someone for doing X means he also has to scum-read everyone who does X, and I'm struggling to see how town can be so close-minded. He gives himself a lot of town points for "having reads and trying to game solve" while completely ignoring that 2.718 made an entire reads list, and the least he could've done was acknowledge that fact and explain why 2.718's reads list was lazy/active-lurking/whatever instead of trying to sweep it under the rug and hope no one notices.

His recent trajectory isn't much better either. 2.718 seemed to be his biggest scum-read, but when northsidegal started town-reading him volxen didn't even bat an eye or seem to care at all really, not even an acknowledgement akin to "well, I guess you have a point on 2.178", and he seemed too eager to hop onto a counter wagon as soon as the opportunity opened up. He also said he was going to update his readslist tomorrow on Friday, and he still hasn't followed up on it. On one hand I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he was busier than he intended, and I ended up posting later than I meant to once as well, but part of me feels he's just not bothering anymore because the pressure's been shifted to Sesq instead.

Sesq isn't a terrible lynch, but the way it built up didn't make much sense either. It seemed mostly based on their play here not lining up with their town meta, which sort of makes sense but unless their play here is similar to their scum game it might just be NAI. A lot of players have talked about their lack of motivation in this game, and it's debatable how much of this is genuine or just an excuse but it's wide-spread enough to where I can see Sesq just not being at their A-game this game. Just looking at this game specifically, I'm struggling to see a definite scum agenda to their play. I'm annoyed by their limited scum-reads and coasting behavior, but at the same time they clearly don't care about the impression they give off and they're not super motivated to start a counter-wagon, even going as far as to town-read volxen. It almost feels like they're playing to get lynched in some aspects, which honestly does make some sense as a scum play-style, but I'm kind of iffy on it.

Volxen is still my preferred lynch today. I'm not too opposed to a sesq lynch but I have a lot more reservations about it compared to volxen. Toranga/Dunn are my weakest nulls right now, so I probably won't cry a river over their lynches either, but volxen makes the most sense to me right now tbh.
Btw this is one of those posts that put Reundo firmly into never-lynch territory
Yep, I noted 3 great uppercuts from Reundo on Volxen from D1. #pivotal

In post 537, Keyser Söze wrote:Master Reundo won big town-cred from D1. After his awkward examination of me (once scummy, but now forgiven), Reundo changed up his focus and gave us a tour-de-force in delivering the Volxen lynch. Here are the 3 killer posts:
In post 119, Reundo wrote:volxen - His post-RVS introduction was pretty pointless and actually did nothing to add to the discussion. I get I might be kind of a hypocrite since similar things have been said about my introduction, but it seems even more exaggerated in that the distance between the post he was responding to and his actual post number were literally pages apart and that all he said was basically just paraphrasing what northsidegal said. A lean scum for me.
In post 220, Reundo wrote:I don't really understand the town-reads of volxen. Everything he's posted seems like surface-level scum-hunting based mostly around points that have already been brought up by others, and as a whole it seems like he's much more interested in garnering why player X scum-reads player Y than providing scum-reads of his own. I'm more worried about him than 2.718 at the moment.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: volxen
In post 387, Reundo wrote:I don't really understand why the volxen wagon died down the way it did. The only town points he got was from northsidegal for being contradictory, and while I can sort of see where northsidegal is coming from it doesn't feel like a particularly strong town-read, and the contradictions run much deeper than mere activity. Looking back on it, post #254 is a lot more petty than I realized. I could see why some of the posts volxen mentioned could be viewed as active lurking, but to not put any more thought into players than "oh, they're active lurking, they're probably scum" is incredibly lazy and narrow-minded. It actually feels like he's afraid of contradicting himself, as if scum-reading someone for doing X means he also has to scum-read everyone who does X, and I'm struggling to see how town can be so close-minded. He gives himself a lot of town points for "having reads and trying to game solve" while completely ignoring that 2.718 made an entire reads list, and the least he could've done was acknowledge that fact and explain why 2.718's reads list was lazy/active-lurking/whatever instead of trying to sweep it under the rug and hope no one notices.

His recent trajectory isn't much better either. 2.718 seemed to be his biggest scum-read, but when northsidegal started town-reading him volxen didn't even bat an eye or seem to care at all really, not even an acknowledgement akin to "well, I guess you have a point on 2.178", and he seemed too eager to hop onto a counter wagon as soon as the opportunity opened up. He also said he was going to update his readslist tomorrow on Friday, and he still hasn't followed up on it. On one hand I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he was busier than he intended, and I ended up posting later than I meant to once as well, but part of me feels he's just not bothering anymore because the pressure's been shifted to Sesq instead.

Sesq isn't a terrible lynch, but the way it built up didn't make much sense either. It seemed mostly based on their play here not lining up with their town meta, which sort of makes sense but unless their play here is similar to their scum game it might just be NAI. A lot of players have talked about their lack of motivation in this game, and it's debatable how much of this is genuine or just an excuse but it's wide-spread enough to where I can see Sesq just not being at their A-game this game. Just looking at this game specifically, I'm struggling to see a definite scum agenda to their play. I'm annoyed by their limited scum-reads and coasting behavior, but at the same time they clearly don't care about the impression they give off and they're not super motivated to start a counter-wagon, even going as far as to town-read volxen. It almost feels like they're playing to get lynched in some aspects, which honestly does make some sense as a scum play-style, but I'm kind of iffy on it.

Volxen is still my preferred lynch today. I'm not too opposed to a sesq lynch but I have a lot more reservations about it compared to volxen. Toranga/Dunn are my weakest nulls right now, so I probably won't cry a river over their lynches either, but volxen makes the most sense to me right now tbh.

Yes, yes, scum partners bus, but at the time of reading these posts I did begin to see Reundo as a teammate who was sharing similar thoughts and suspicions as myself. He chose to oppose the Sesq wagon while it was selling like hot cakes (like myself) and hold the course with the more difficult Volxen wagon.

These three posts should at least give him safe passage into D3.


If Reundo is town, they possess impressive reading skills.
Here he agrees with Nauci that I'm in his "never lynch" pool, further citing three posts of mine that supports his view, which again demonstrates the sheer magnitude and strength of his town-read on me.
In post 1558, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 1552, Eragon wrote:Also, the fact that your talking about MY confidence is ???

Keyser went from hard-defending Dunn with nothing but WIFOM read, and then he suddenly switches to
“If Dunn flips town I’m replacing out”
That’s literally staking his part of the game on dunn’s Flip being red.

If that’s not confidence, then I don’t know what is
I’m not confident of Dunn flipping red. You have misunderstood my post.

I will lose interest in this game if he flips green.
So he's not confident that Dunn will flip red, yet he'll lose interest in the game if he flips green? Why would his interest in the game even wane on Dunnstral flipping green? Like, I guess it would be annoying if he flipped green since he did nothing to defend himself, but it's definitely not a game-ending lynch or anything. This just reads like a weird excuse to justify his complete 180 on Dunn.
In post 1601, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 1593, northsidegal wrote:
In post 1590, northsidegal wrote:what're the odds reundo is scum?
meh, not sure. he was right there on the volxen wagon, but townread dunnstral day 2 (albeit for reasons consistent with reasons for him townreading me). his reaction at the end of the day seems pretty strange to me coming from someone who had a townread on dunn, though.
In post 1591, Keyser Söze wrote:Wellplayed Ausuka x
Reundo town through and through for me.
Crystal clear scum read progression and methodology on Volxen.
Delightful brain waves regarding Dunnstral slot that I felt during the middle part of D2.
If scum, an exceptional scum player I will never want to play with again as his scum game is untraceable in my eyes and he mirrored many of my developing thoughts on players.
Town
This is probably the strongest town-read of me he's given yet, even to go as far as to say that my scum game is "untraceable" and that's he'd never want to play with me again if I were scum. It would be reasonable then to assume that his town-read of me would take a lot of work to break down, and that it'll take a lot of convincing for him to view me as scum. Except...
In post 1663, Keyser Söze wrote:I’d be very uncomfortable lynching Reundo today (he has more town cred than even me!) :giggle:
Why would he be uncomfortable lynching me
today
? I thought he just said literally a few pages ago that I'm town "through and through" -- why would he want to lynch me
ever
?
In post 1678, Keyser Söze wrote:I guess Reundo would only be lynched if he got to the last 3.



His intricate scum case on me was so well constructed, painting me as Volxen’s perfect partner...
But I don’t see two scum trying to set me up like that for a single misslynch.
It felt more like a townie starting with a scum read on me, then turning everything I wrote into something scummy, and every thing Volxen wrote as a link to me. I’m nobody though, just a man with a vote.
So now he does want me lynched despite advocating so hard that he could basically never see me as scum, which doesn't feel like a genuine transition in the slightest. Remind you, this is just pages after he claimed that he was so confident I was town that he'd never want to play with me against if I'm scum since my scum-game would be "untraceable".
In post 1834, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 1831, Toranaga wrote:VOTE: reundo

scummy af entrance
Yeah, Reundo had the worst entrance out of every player.

Reundo still demonstrating the inability to post in real time.



So is that his thing, post enough to pull of a clinical bus of his teammate and cash in towncred galore, day two doesn’t know what to do as he witnesses his scum mate being savaged, a wagon he was half hesitant with...?

After consulting my teammates, IT’S SIMPLY NOT GOOD ENOUGH :evil:

Image



You no longer deserve the cloak of invincibility I bestowed upon you!
This complete 180 on me doesn't make any sense at all, and I feel the only reason he's completely changing his read on me is that it's clear I'm a viable mislynch target and that scum-reading me is the new cool and popular opinion to have. This constant flip-flopping of me being town or scum makes absolutely no sense from town, and neither does his constant flip-flopping of his read on Dunnstral.
In post 1850, Keyser Söze wrote:Hmmm... the Reundo in this game has lost his voice.

There is no soul in his posts!



It’s like a demon has possessed the body of Reundo and is trying to mimic him! :o
In post 1856, Keyser Söze wrote:I CAST YOU OUT, UNCLEAN SPIRIT!



VOTE: Reundo
So now he's fully committed to lynching the player he once thought was the most towny in the game, and compared to the mountains of posts he made D2 where he was convinced I was never scum this vote just doesn't feel natural at all.
In post 1896, Keyser Söze wrote:Reundo’s 3-hit strike on Volxen is remarkable but what else in his ISO says town?
Keyser's literally made posts where he pulled up strings of posts that he believed were town-indicative. He's brought up numerous posts from mine that he suggested were towny. Acting like he never town-read me at all or town-read me outside of the "3-hit strike on Volxen" is disingenuous and completely untrue, and there'd be no reason for him to lie like this as town.
In post 2067, Keyser Söze wrote:Where my head is right now regarding Reundo.

The scum narrative:

- uncomfortable start pressing non alignment indicative factors as scummy (worst entrance by any player), realises he needs to save his slot
- busses teammate (Volxen) and continues miminal posting
- sets himself up perfectly: nobody can put together a strong case versus his small ISO, and will all bestow town cred on him for his acute push on flipped scum. He’s happy to be town read and be outside everyone's PoE
- half hesitant with Dunnstral wagon
- continues a suspicious periphery presence (choosing when to join the game when a misslynch is viable)
- I actually think he’s out of his element with the town players in this playerslist so has failed to engage one on one in real time. We could have had a perfect game lynching him yesterday.
- his reads reflect two misslynches lined up (his only strategy now)
- his timing to show up is always bad (scum indicative opportunistic/survivalist behaviour)
- there is a serious lack of WIM from his slot (the least WIM demonstrated by all the playerlist, despite apparently dunking on scum on D1)
- no pro-active sorting of the playerlist (where is the sincere town initiative, the paranoia, the genuine concern of someone challenging both his reads and others?
- the more he posts about myself/Toranaga the more likely he’ll be lynched tomorrow anyway (so he’s in a dilemma, thus, his pro-active contributions will be underwhelming yet again)
- meta: his posts lack the soul of the town meta I have read of his. This Reundo is not the real town Reundo, but a fake imitation.


Promised to ISO each player though first before I vote.
This scum narrative ignores the fact that he himself was half-hesistant on Dunnstral, and as a whole it just looks he's just drumming up reasons to scum-read me.
In post 2090, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 2076, Irrelephant11 wrote:So fmpov either scum is eragon or one scum bussed the volxen lynch
that challenges some assumptions
I've been along the 'scum bussed scum' narrative for a long time now. So I expect attention my way via VCA (I'm on both the Volxen and Dunstral lynch wagons).

Let's face it though, Volxen was no hard lynch. There wasn't an uphill struggle to make their wagon/lynch viable. If Volxen had been mass-town cred,
then cased
, then maybe you would give massive kudos to the people who pro-actively pushed his wagon, but no.

Dead weight scum is dead weight scum.
Wait... Keyser literally said at the start of D2 that I decided to "hold the course with the more difficult Volxen wagon". Why does he suddenly think the volxen lynch wasn't hard at all? It feels like he's just sticking to the explanation that best fits with his current read of me -- if he's town reading me, then the volxen wagon was impressive and there wouldn't be any reason for me to jump back on him, if he's scum reading me, then the volxen wagon is a piece of cake and it wouldn't be hard at all for scum to pull off a bus.
In post 2096, Keyser Söze wrote:
In post 2061, Reundo wrote:And I only did it last gameday because it was largely during the weekend when I generally don't have much time to play mafia, and by the time I did have the time to write a catch-up the worst was already lynched.
Excuses excuses.

You do realise how long the game days are?

You watched us miss lynch The Worst.




In post 2050, Reundo wrote:VOTE: Keyser Söze

It's pretty much either him or Toranaga at this point, but Keyser is definitely the scummier one by a longshot. There's just zero world where any of Irrelephant/Nauci/Eragon flips scum.
Explain to me
how you are so sure
?

I've studied every post and tried to be as attentive as possible but even I would fully town clear 'Irrelephant/Nauci/Eragon' - where is the paranoia to rationalize and do the due diligence homework to support any of your reads?

It was me or the worst yesterday, and now me and Tora today? I knew you were lining up misslynches as soon as I realised you weren't reading the thread/analysing/revising your reads.

You don't even have the interactions to be so locked into confirmation bias either (like I was with Eragon)
So now I'm scum because I'm not paranoid enough for his liking? OK then. And it'll be reasonable for me to think it would be Keyser and Tora today if the former was a town-read, the latter was a null-read, and everyone was town. I can't possibly think one of my town-reads was scum. And him trying to brush off his scum-read of Eragon as being "locked into confirmation bias" rubs me the wrong way.

In conclusion, it's clear that Keyser is very likely to be the last scum. He defended himself a lot the whole game, and it was clear it was more suited to driving suspicion away from him then actually attempting to scum-hunt off of people scum-reading him. His only scum-reads D1 were either those who were directly scum-reading him or were heavily influenced by the opinions of others. He never gave a clear stance on volxen, and it was evident through his own scum-hunting criteria that he should've been a lot more suspicious of volxen. He constantly shifted his read on Dunnstral with very little indication between each transition. His flip-flopping on his read of me is even more suspicious, and there's many moments of him blatantly contradicting himself to try to push my lynch -- what he once thought was towny of me is now apparently scummy, what he once thought was a hard lynch (volxen's lynch) is now apparently not a hard lynch at all. His criteria for scum-reading people is not consistent at all and as a whole he seems content to just go with the flow and align his opinions with the majority of the player-base. There's hardly a shred of town in him when you really break down his play, and I'd be beyond surprised if Keyser flips town here.

So that's my Keyser ISO done. I think I'm going to work on ISO'ing Toranaga next since he's the next likely to be scum, but even his play is incredibly towny when compared with Keyser. I'm pretty confident that Keyser is just the answer here, but I'll probably ISO everyone else anyways just to double check, but if for whatever I reason I don't get to it then just know that Keyser needs to be lynched, period.


I apologize that it's taken me so long to finally read this

But it's like he took the words out of my mouth

Inb4 Keyser says but but but Eragon/Tor also did blah blah in a way that totally disregards context and nuance

Like there's a slim chance reundo is plying me with my own opinions but I don't think he could have articulated my views more in depth than I could if so. I've never had a mind meld that wasn't also town

And I haven't been able to follow any of keysers thought processes when I mind meld with him enough on our previous game that I could explain his point of view better than he could

Flip flopping doesn't just mean changing viewpoints, it means changing without genuine reasons

I've been kinda over this game since no one but Keyser interacted with my high effort case of him and that interaction was kinda angry defense. It's pretty de motivating that I kept asking but no one has really answered how Keyser has been very town thus far

P.S. reundo the spoiler tag wasn't working for you because MS doesn't allow nested spoilers and you quoted a Keyser post with a spoiler (that was fun to hunt down on mobile...).
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Post Post #2289 (ISO) » Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:32 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

@Nauci sorry on a personal level if it feels like your work is being straight up ignored
Sometimes it's just a lot of work to completely re-evaluate on a strong townread (which most of us have had on keyser for most of the game)
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Post Post #2290 (ISO) » Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:26 am

Post by Keyser Söze »

Kop said I was town and he is never wrong.

I’ll just leave that here for today / tomorrow.
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Post Post #2291 (ISO) » Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:27 am

Post by Keyser Söze »

If Reundo is town the game is already over guys, lynch me or Reundo.
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Post Post #2292 (ISO) » Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:30 am

Post by Keyser Söze »

VOTE: Keyser Soze (for the benefit of those still angling a Keyser counter wagon).

(Will force myself to do one final read with 5 days to go).
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Post Post #2293 (ISO) » Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:45 am

Post by Nauci »

In post 2289, Irrelephant11 wrote:@Nauci sorry on a personal level if it feels like your work is being straight up ignored
Sometimes it's just a lot of work to completely re-evaluate on a strong townread (which most of us have had on keyser for most of the game)
I just feel like, regardless of whether or not anyone enages with my points or reundo's points, I've not been able to see the case for Town Keyser all game and don't feel like anyone else has been able to explain it either
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Post Post #2294 (ISO) » Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:46 am

Post by Nauci »

If your town reads on him are so strong, are you able to articulate it?
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Post Post #2295 (ISO) » Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:52 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

Yes
He's the reason I unvoted sesq
He's been spewing his thoughts at every chance he gets
His play reminds me somewhat of Presidents (including things like scummy word choices which meh)
He's the top poster, and he's not just posting at opportunistic times

.... on the other hand he's maybe been openwolfing lol
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Post Post #2296 (ISO) » Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:56 am

Post by Eragon »

In post 2260, Toranaga wrote:stay strong brother

pay attention to your classes
Fresher,
Like it's the first semester
Rock it like Queen when I'm Under Pressure
While the rest are of these cats all siesta
Get loose like change when its on your dresser
Boom
Here comes the real volume
Had enough to wake up and shake this tomb
I can act like skate decks in concrete rooms
We're about to face what makes this move
People used to tell me that I'm on my own
They said I'd never make a distance on this microphone
Cause there's a million other people who can sing this song
I said thanks for the push, 'cause you are alone
You wanna try to take me under
I'll never bow till I'm six feet under
Listen to the sound of rolling thunder
You can't break me
You'll never take me down
In post 2261, Irrelephant11 wrote:oh wait it's actually just lylo because there isn't a no lynch option
Let's see

If we lynch Reundo and he flips town
Someone claims watcher tomorrow, and they pretty much get to pick the lynch (unless scum is out-there enough to cc, which I doubt)
Keyser, if town & not watcher, has a reaalllll uphill battle to find and lynch scum
Keyser, if scum, has an uphill battle to lynch tor

I'm just gonna interrupt myself to say IF IT'S ERAGON, SO HELP ME

If we flip Keyser and he's town
Reundo just gets lynched, I guess, since he's already claimed backup and is the obvious PoE


Since Reundo's lynch is more inevitable than Keyser's, I think it makes more sense to lynch him today? Plus then we don't have to deal with "oops we outed Keyser the watcher AND Reundo flipped town"
'cause the watcher is our best hope of fixing a mislynch either way

Whatever let's flip Reundo already, in honor of the worst
i agree?
but i feel reundo has more of an uphill battle to stay alive in LyLo/MyLo if Keyser does flip town
ALSO AM I ABLE TO HELP YOU IF I CANT EVEN HELP MYSELF???
In post 2270, Nauci wrote:TBH I kinda just skimmed Reundo's posts but I can't get over the reasons I have for scum reading Keyser

Short list that's probably not comprehensive (am on mobile at a doctor's office because I was accidentally 90 minutes early oops)

-Total lack of calling out Volxen's weird obsession with him (there's like no universe where the town Keyser I know would just ignore this)
-VCA that makes sense as scum: it was too late to jump off of the volxen train by the time he got back to the thread; his changes on dunnstral were
-Weird flip flopping on dunnstral that was very... self conscious
-non-stop defense by saying that things I and others have called him out on are things town would do, totally ignoring their context, INSTEAD of explaining how he arrived at those views
-spent a lot more time actively trying to dictate the game state/pace that far outweighed presenting cases and evidence (which feels pretty similar to his play here)
-I read a lot of Keyser posts I could understand the motivation for in AP and here

Like as far as I can tell, the case y'all have one Reundo is low activity compared to his other game?

But can anyone show me where Keyser's scum read changes ever made sense? Like even his pivot to Reundo after hard town reading him? That pivot was like grossly opportunistic to me. Same with the hard pivot to scum reading TW. All of the pivots were when someone else gave reasons to doubt someone, like when Irrelephant and I questioned TW's posting or when Irrelephant questioned Reundo. Every time we have Keyser + someone else in our bottom 2 he pushes the other player HARD.

Like I just don't see why people town read Keyser besides post count, which is totally non-alignment indicative for him.

P.S. Keyser since you're talking a lot about Reundo being tunneled, what are your reads? Did you ever end up doing the ISO of me you promised like, last weekend or something?
i dont have input on the first, cuz
1. i wasnt really around
2. i dont have a keyser!Meta to look at
second,
I find that part of the read sort of WIFOM-y, because jsut because "he makes sense as scum with that VCA", means really nothing? you hear?
definitely agreed on the flip-flopping, and i beleive i also caslled that out
fourth, i noticed that a couple times too, but thats not really a strong reason to lynch someone
fifth, so more meta, im ignoring that
more meta, which i wont base my read off of, but i can see viability i guess?
On reundo, not neccesarily only low activity, but the fact he seemed normal D1, then just lost all WIM after that and hasnt really done anything, except make "ISO cases" that have done really nothing but prove Keyser "is scum"
I do think the self-preserve was awkward, but i dont feel its Scummy, so-to-speak, but more a red flag
and im not sure how many people are actually townreading keyser? i think its more, "could be scum but Reundo's worse"
In post 2274, Nauci wrote:
In post 2261, Irrelephant11 wrote:oh wait it's actually just lylo because there isn't a no lynch option
Let's see

If we lynch Reundo and he flips town
Someone claims watcher tomorrow, and they pretty much get to pick the lynch (unless scum is out-there enough to cc, which I doubt)
Keyser, if town & not watcher, has a reaalllll uphill battle to find and lynch scum
Keyser, if scum, has an uphill battle to lynch tor

I'm just gonna interrupt myself to say IF IT'S ERAGON, SO HELP ME

If we flip Keyser and he's town
Reundo just gets lynched, I guess, since he's already claimed backup and is the obvious PoE

Since Reundo's lynch is more inevitable than Keyser's, I think it makes more sense to lynch him today? Plus then we don't have to deal with "oops we outed Keyser the watcher AND Reundo flipped town"
'cause the watcher is our best hope of fixing a mislynch either way

Whatever let's flip Reundo already, in honor of the worst
Can you do the exercise of looking at whether Keyser's various vote changes/pushes have made sense to you from a town perspective? If so, can you explain them to me?

Because I absolutely just do not see them, while I very much understand the bits of reundo's posts I've had time to read. I'll go read them now since I"ve got another half hour to burn here lol.

But then I'm out the rest of the day because I'm getting my eyes dilated again lol. BUT SOON I WILL HAVE LASIK AND SEE SUPER GUD (well, theoretically by Oct 20)
Glasses are the key to survival.
i personally would hate lasic because i heard it effects the other type of your vision that is good
In post 2275, Nauci wrote:
In post 2272, Irrelephant11 wrote:if it's keyser, nauci and reundo deserve an award
I unvoted because I'm willing to wait for Keyser to answer Nauci's question
I am not wanting Keyser to answer me though because he has repeatedly shown me that his answer is "but town also does X"

I want YOU and Tor and Eragon to look at my points and try to follow Keyser's narratives and trains of thought
i dont really follow it and i dont think its "towny" but i dont think its as scummy as you think.
i remember one game that i was playing normally and this person called me out for not vote-dropping and that was p.much the only basis for their push, even though i explained it. so some people just have their playstyle that they get called out on, and that could be it. im not arguing that its not "good or towny" though.
In post 2285, Nauci wrote:I TRIED SO HARD

AND GOT SO FAR

but in the end

Still waiting for the doooooctor
It starts with one,
one thing, i dont know why
it doesnt even matter how hard you try
becuase in the end it comes down to fate
In post 2291, Keyser Söze wrote:If Reundo is town the game is already over guys, lynch me or Reundo.
didnt you say that about the worst?
is the game over?
no.
We still have a chance to win even if reundo is town.
In post 2292, Keyser Söze wrote:VOTE: Keyser Soze (for the benefit of those still angling a Keyser counter wagon).

(Will force myself to do one final read with 5 days to go).
if your town, and you think reundo is always scum, why the hell do you self-vote??
IMO this is trying to act non-self-preserving
also, you say if reundo flips town its game over?
what if you flip town?
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Post Post #2297 (ISO) » Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:04 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

Spoiler: a bunch of vote counts
In post 130, Flicker wrote:Votecount 1.04

Keyser Söze (3)
- Sesq , Reundo , 2 718281828459
2 718281828459 (2)
- Keyser Söze , Irrelephant11
Sesq (1)
- Dunnstral
GameNBurger (1)
- volxen
Irrelephant11 (1)
- Ausuka

Not voting: GameNBurger, Kop, northsidegal, Poseidon

The deadline for Day 1 is 1:52 pm CT on Tuesday, September 4, in (expired on 2018-09-04 14:51:53).
In post 150, Flicker wrote:Votecount 1.05

Reundo (3)
- Ausuka , Keyser Söze , Irrelephant11
Keyser Söze (2)
- Reundo , 2 718281828459
Sesq (1)
- Dunnstral
GameNBurger (1)
- volxen

Not voting: GameNBurger, Kop, northsidegal, Poseidon , Sesq

The deadline for Day 1 is 1:52 pm CT on Tuesday, September 4, in (expired on 2018-09-04 14:51:53).

Mod notes
  • - Reundo and Dunnstral have been prodded. They have (expired on 2018-08-27 09:02:16) to post before I start searching for their replacements.
In post 178, Flicker wrote:Votecount 1.06

Reundo (3)
- Ausuka , Keyser Söze , Irrelephant11
Dunnstral (1)
- northsidegal
Sesq (1)
- Dunnstral
Keyser Söze (1)
- Reundo
GameNBurger (1)
- volxen

Not voting: GameNBurger, Kop, Toranaga , Sesq , 2 718281828459

The deadline for Day 1 is 1:52 pm CT on Tuesday, September 4, in (expired on 2018-09-04 14:51:53).

Mod notes
  • - Searching for Reundo's replacement. If he posts here before I find someone, he can stay in the game.
    - The colors in post are difficult to read in mafSepia. Please try to use colors that work for both the light and dark colored board themes.
In post 351, Flicker wrote:Votecount 1.12

Sesq (5)
- Dunnstral , northsidegal , the worst , volxen , Ausuka
volxen (3)
- Reundo , Sesq , Keyser Söze
Toranaga (1)
- Irrelephant
Huntress (1)
- Kop

Not voting: Toranaga , Huntress

The deadline for Day 1 is 1:52 pm CT on Tuesday, September 4, in (expired on 2018-09-04 14:51:53).

Mod notes
  • - Just to be clear, post does not count as an unvote, due to broken formatting.
In post 955, Flicker wrote:Votecount 2.11

Ausuka (3)
- Toranaga , Eragon , Reundo
Dunnstral (3)
- northsidegal , Irrelephant11 , Keyser Söze
Reundo (1)
- Ausuka
Keyser Söze (1)
- Nauci

Not voting: the worst , Dunnstral

The deadline for Day 2 is 2:17 pm CT on Thursday, September 20, in (expired on 2018-09-20 15:17:24).
In post 1025, Flicker wrote:Votecount 2.12

Dunnstral (4)
- northsidegal , Irrelephant11 , Keyser Söze , the worst
Ausuka (2)
- Eragon , Reundo
northsidegal (1)
- Toranaga
Reundo (1)
- Ausuka
Keyser Söze (1)
- Nauci

Not voting: Dunnstral

The deadline for Day 2 is 2:17 pm CT on Thursday, September 20, in (expired on 2018-09-20 15:17:24).
In post 1126, Flicker wrote:Votecount 2.16

northsidegal (2)
- Toranaga , Keyser Söze
Dunnstral (2)
- northsidegal , Ausuka
Ausuka (2)
- Eragon , Reundo
Keyser Söze (1)
- Nauci

Not voting: Dunnstral , Irrelephant11 , the worst

The deadline for Day 2 is 2:17 pm CT on Thursday, September 20, in (expired on 2018-09-20 15:17:24).

Mod notes
  • - The worst is V/LA until September 17th.
In post 1530, Flicker wrote:Votecount 2.25

Dunnstral (4)
- northsidegal , Eragon , Toranaga , Keyser Söze
Eragon (3)
- Irrelephant11 , the worst , Dunnstral
Keyser Söze (1)
- Nauci
Ausuka (1)
- Reundo

Not voting: Ausuka

The deadline for Day 2 is 2:17 pm CT on Thursday, September 20, in (expired on 2018-09-20 15:17:24).
In post 1550, Flicker wrote:Votecount 2.26

Eragon (4)
- Irrelephant11 , the worst , Dunnstral , Ausuka
Dunnstral (4)
- northsidegal , Eragon , Toranaga , Keyser Söze
Keyser Söze (1)
- Nauci
Ausuka (1)
- Reundo

Not voting: N/A

The deadline for Day 2 is 2:17 pm CT on Thursday, September 20, in (expired on 2018-09-20 15:17:24).


I have to go so no further thought on these votecounts but all in all they give roughly equal scum and town points to keyser and reundo

VOTE: reundo

@nauci if you're right I'm confident we'll still win
watcher is still thing too
headed out for the weekend
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Post Post #2298 (ISO) » Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:05 pm

Post by Nauci »

What does not being around have to do with not commenting on day 1 events

I wasn't here either
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Post Post #2299 (ISO) » Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:08 pm

Post by Nauci »

In post 2295, Irrelephant11 wrote:Yes
He's the reason I unvoted sesq
He's been spewing his thoughts at every chance he gets
His play reminds me somewhat of Presidents (including things like scummy word choices which meh)
He's the top poster, and he's not just posting at opportunistic times

.... on the other hand he's maybe been openwolfing lol
He has SO many words this game

Why is it so hard to find town trains of thought in all of those words

(He's a top poster in his scum games too)
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