Open 739: Epic Duel [Game Over]

[Shoshin]

I'm probably gonna duel Radiant for the giggles.

[Shoshin]

VOTE: Walt

[Shoshin]

I'm going to assume that anyone who starts a duel on D1 is scum, unless it's RC, in which case he's confirmed town.

[Shoshin]

Hey Ejji, help me lynch Walt?

[Shoshin]

Hey Io, join me on Walt!

[Shoshin]

Is this a wagon the new guy and see if he cracks thing?

No. It's more about Io and Ejji.

[Shoshin]

It's actually kinda amazing how many words they've both said without moving the game anywhere useful.

[Shoshin]

That feels like a lie.

[Shoshin]

nvm if Shoshin had that read as early as she did then I am a little less skeptical of her claim to be able to read me.

Weird post.

[Shoshin]

VOTE: Radiant

[Shoshin]

I'm pretty annoyed with this game, mostly wtih RC.

[Shoshin]

Why is RC town?

[Shoshin]

I'd guess RC & Bujab as scum.

[Shoshin]

That's not a towntell for RC.

[Shoshin]

Hey the worst, just realized you're in the game - that's cool, why are you townreading RC?

[Shoshin]

Why would you just believe me like that, Walt?

[Shoshin]

UNVOTE: Radiant

I'm really annoyed at RC right now so whatever. He might actually be town, I dunno. Really sad he just threw and randomly dueled.

[Shoshin]

VOTE: Radiant

[Shoshin]

Walt, why is PP town?

[Shoshin]

RC saying I'm scum is by far the towniest thing he's said all game. I'd be concerned if he wasn't saying that.

[Shoshin]

Cage, what're your reads?

[Shoshin]

RC saying I'm scum is by far the towniest thing he's said all game. I'd be concerned if he wasn't saying that.

Why?

Because I'm playing pretty different than I usually do as town.

[Shoshin]

So, Ejji's probably scum. That makes a lot of sense.

[Shoshin]

Those posts from Cage don't look too good, either.

Tough game.

[Shoshin]

Hey RC, why is Io town?

[Shoshin]

the worst is scum, 100%

[Shoshin]

Ejji, also scum.

[Shoshin]

Hey RC, let's talk about the game while you're here, then. Do you agree that it's TW & Ejji?

[Shoshin]

UNVOTE: Radiant

[Shoshin]

Wtf the worst is leaving? Quite tragic. He was the best part of this game so far.

[Shoshin]

Alright, because he left us, I'll honor him with a lynch on Nic.

[Shoshin]

lol

[Shoshin]

I'd like to think that I'm better scum than this. Like, c'mon.

[Shoshin]

Shoshin

What is your take on garm?

I don't have one yet. You?

[Shoshin]

Hey RC, you think all the scum are just voting you?

[Shoshin]

And if RC flips town it's definitely Io!scum for the TMI she's exhibiting. Otherwise why would town!Io be betting the game on his reads when he hasn't flipped yet.

That's interesting. What's the TMI from Io? Just that she agrees with RC?

[Shoshin]

If you're town, RC, I'll definitely take your reads into account.

It'd curious that Up is voting PP - what do you think of that?

[Shoshin]

Nobody should be townreading me. That last post from Io is really bad.

[Shoshin]

I'm already sorely disappointed in you if you're town so

:shrug:

I'm really disappointed that you decidded to duel off the bat plus all the complaining about stuff when I was really excited to finally play a game with you where I thought you would actually try hard. So yeah, if you see this, I just stopped caring about this game after that.

[Shoshin]

Anyway, let's just follow up on RC's reads now that we know he was town.

[Shoshin]

VOTE: BrightEyed

[Shoshin]

Do you have an actual reason here other than following RC?

Yes.

[Shoshin]

Do you have an actual reason here other than following RC?

Yes.

What.
is.
your.
reason?

Following someone else too.

[Shoshin]

I guess I should start putting effort now.

Irrelephant, you around? Let's discuss the game?

[Shoshin]

Who did Light Ethos replace?

[Shoshin]

FA_Q2, what's your read on Io and BrightEyed?

[Shoshin]

No concern about Light Ethos?

[Shoshin]

I'm town, but I understand why people would be suspicious. I haven't done anything. But I'm here now to discuss.

Irrelephant, have you read the whole game?

[Shoshin]

So why BrightEyed?

[Shoshin]

Io was scum because she was playing from an informed perspective, and BightEyed's jump on me feels very opportunistic and shallow in a scummy way as well. On top of that, you have some strong players - RC, BuJabe - agreeing that this slot is scum.

So, Io's slot is the right vote imo

[Shoshin]

Well, I would put it with me on shoshin. Claiming that we should follow up on RC's reads (as though RC has some inside information which we know to be false) but not putting a vote anywhere and then jumping on as soon as someone puts a vote up - scummy.

Why would you think this is scummy? What's the scum motive in following RC or saying we should follow his reads?

For the record, it's especially not scummy for me. I can point you to multiple games where I follow players I trust (and RC is one of those, especially after seeing his flip as town).

Claiming that there is a real reason that she is voting there and then not having one at all is scummier.

That's not scummy, either. I was mostly testing reactions, which is part of how I scumhunt, and the reality is that I did have reasons based in large part on things that RC and BuJaber were pointing out (and which I agree with).

Why does townshoshin lose interest like this but scum shoshin not? If the driving factor is RC, then it would be NAI.

I signed up for this game because RC asked me to. He sent me a PM promising that he wouldn't replace out and that he would take the game seriously. Then he came into the game and immediately dueled, so I was pretty upset and just stopped caring.

Could always go back to NC. Still do not like that slot much - a bunch of OMGUS and then purposefully casing a player that is no longer in the game is scummy as fuck. The useless excuse of not casing because we were locked into the duel BUT placing a vote on me during that duel is scummy.

Who is NC? Where's the OMGUS and what's scummy about it? (OMGUS isn't scummy by itself, but throwing the word around without more in-depth analysis of why it's scummy is actually scummy). What's scummy about casing a player that isn't in the game anymore? If the player was scummy, that has impact on how you read that player's slot for the rest of the game. And what's scummy about the "useless excuse"? It's like you're just calling everything the player is doing scummy without actually analyzing why any of this stuff is more likely to come from scum than town. And that fact - the lack of any in-depth analysis - is scummy. Especially for a player like you, who clearly has an analytical approach to the game. The lack of more thoughtful analysis from your slot, given your clear propensity for an anlaytical approach to the game, doesn't seem to make much sense. Any explanation for that?

[Shoshin]

I'm gonna be so obvious town not that Irrelephant is in the game and I have a reason to care.

[Shoshin]

I will answer this too since I'm voting you. I find that following the reads of a dead player is a low effort way of playing the game. It's a reasonable way of active lurking. Active lurking is not town motivated. Town should be looking for scum, not making a few throwaway comments and then sheeping dead town players' reads or logic.

Why is low effort scummy when town do it all the time?

Also, this doesn't answer my question. Why shouldn't a townie give weight to how other townies are reading the game, especially when those other townies are known for strong reads and have put much more effort & time into the game?

Then as stated above, it's NAI at best. I don't see why a town player would play the way you have, but I can easily see how a scum player could want to play that way.

You don't see why a town player who doesn't care about the game would follow the reads of a dead townie who (a) is known for having good reads, and (b) put much more effort & time into the game to figure things out? What's not to see? And scum would follow those reads only in the event that the dead townie was wrong... so there's not exactly much reason for your suspicion unless you actually know the flips of the relevant players.

Not being willing to discuss your motivation for a vote is scummy. Having a vote tossed out and shielding it under the guise of a reaction test is also scummy. That's a catch-all excuse for an unexplained vote.

I answered the question that was asked. I just did so in a way that helped me get some more information on players. What's odd that is that you're just jumping on that without giving it more thought. None of these things are scummy. They might run contrary to the way YOU play the game, but that doesn't make them scummy. You've still offered no reason that scum are more likely to do these things than town. Like, actual reasoning other than your conclusory assertions.

This is not responsive to the question that was asked. If RC said that he would be invested in the game, and then he played like he did, then you should be upset at him and lose interest either way. That's not a town defense. It's easy for me to see how you could be scum here.

Why are you talking about what "could" be instead of what's "likely"?

The way you find scum is by distinguishing what's likely from what's unlikely. Scum tend to push mislynches by trying to cast "possibilities" as "probabilities." Is that what you're doing here? Or do you agree that the fact that I "could be scum" is irrelevant, because literally anyone "could" be scum?

[Shoshin]

Walt was town, from what I remember.

[Shoshin]

FA_Q2 replaced the worst? That was a scum slot, for sure.

[Shoshin]

Hey Irrelephant, take a look at the worst's posts here. Thoughts?

[Shoshin]

Welcome to the game, Creature. I'm glad you're here.

[Shoshin]

shoshin do you have game solve yet or

I haven't read anything, so no.

You?

[Shoshin]

BuJaber is probably town. I like his reasoning on multiple fronts, lots of depth there.

[Shoshin]

We have a deadline in this game? I don't understand.

[Shoshin]

we only have a few hours left
wanna ISO dive garmr with me

Why don't you give me the highlights? I'll discuss them with you.

[Shoshin]

I'm town, I promise. I just zoned out of the game, but I'm around to discuss anything you want to discuss, and hopefully that'll be enough for you to see the truth.

[Shoshin]

I'm disillusioned with mafia lately. Everyone plays in ways that just upset me. Except you, Irrelephant. You'er always great.