Mini 2036: Charging Up! - Game Over

[BNL]

VC 1.9

theslimer3 (3): ManateeDude, Porkens, Vaxkiller
lane0168 (2): northsidegal, Gamma Emerald
Porkens (2): theslimer3, Lady Angel
ManateeDude (2): Kokichi Oma, lane0168
RadiantCowbells (1): Not_Mafia
Vaxkiller (1): GuiltyLion
northsidegal (1): RadiantCowbells
Lady Angel (1): DS

Not Voting (0):

With 13 players alive it takes 7 to lynch

The deadline is 17 October 11:30am UTC-4, or in (expired on 2018-10-17 11:30:00)

Mod notes:
Finally a pagetop

[DS]

VC 1.8

theslimer3

(3): ManateeDude, Porkens, Vaxkiller

lane0168

(2):

northsidegal

, Gamma Emerald
Porkens (2):

theslimer3

,

Lady Angel

ManateeDude (2): Kokichi Oma,

lane0168

RadiantCowbells (1): Not_Mafia
Vaxkiller (1): GuiltyLion

northsidegal

(1): RadiantCowbells

Lady Angel

(1): DS

Not Voting (0):

With 13 players alive it takes 7 to lynch

The deadline is 17 October 11:30am UTC-4, or in 11 days, 1 hour, 34 minutes

-----------


Current reads and where they fall on the vote count.

Game can't be that easy can it?

[Kokichi Oma]

Probably not

[Kokichi Oma]

Why do you scumread lane and slimer

[DS]

I mean, the idea of someone proving that their town to get a free "hey, I'll help you lynch whoever you want" just seems anti-town in the way of trying to find scum.
The the inscentive is "I'll lynch you" if you dont. I mean who the hell does that?

You could be sherlock holmes, I'd still be iffy about your judgment. Theoretically of course

Scum #3

These two posts pinged me on slimer. I often find that scum tries to sway town opinion by asking rhetorical questions meant to invite an already positioned answer. The "theoretically of course" is a hedge

[DS]

so im literally being wagoned b/c of an early game misunderstanding?

Indirectly you could make that argument if you wanted. It would be incomplete. I wanted clarification, you didn't acknowledge or respond. More than once. And that's why I am voting you. And now I'm trying to figure out why you didn't just say it was a misunderstanding in the first place

Here's scum #2

This and the other wall I quoted is what I picked up as scummy from lane. Over complicating a simple response to seem as if there is more thought behind it than there is. However this is the shakiest of my three reads, which is why I asked for meta on them

[DS]

I also didn't like the swing near vc 1.2 where lane had been the first vote on an rc wagon with lady, then two others hopped on and lane unvoted and then this happened shortly after

VOTE: Porkens

too many lurkers

Why would you post this less than 24 hours into the game..?

Bonus points for not posting anything after calling out lurkers less than a day in, too.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Porkens

The fact that two of my scum reads happened to lynch the same person at nearly the same time is glorious scum synergy and interesting when combined with my third read on lane and what I previously mentioned

[DS]

Like that all happened within a span of ten posts

[ManateeDude]

I'm gonna say DS is town here from their fullfront approach to the game. That being said RC is also likely town from their interactions. Idk too much about RCs meta, but ik if I was scum andsomeone else was scumreading people besides me, I would just go with the flow...

[BNL]

Not_Mafia

has been prodded

[lane0168]

VOTE: theslimer3

so im literally being wagoned b/c of an early game misunderstanding?

Indirectly you could make that argument if you wanted. It would be incomplete. I wanted clarification, you didn't acknowledge or respond. More than once. And that's why I am voting you. And now I'm trying to figure out why you didn't just say it was a misunderstanding in the first place

But what could it be besides a misunderstanding?

... Not a misunderstanding. Like, whatever you thought you were voting on.

[RadiantCowbells]

if this lobby was half decent NSG would already be lynched by now.

[lane0168]

don't form reads very fast. So yeah, that was the thing that stuck out the most to me so far. How can you even call out "Lurkers" before there's 24 hours passed?

Probably not the most scummy thing ever but I have nothing else right now.

wolfy

okay so let's drill into this Manatee/Lane thing a bit

When someone votes seriously, I'm interested. You don't have to be. But I want to know what he means. He doesn't want to explain it. Can you explain it? If not, does it matter to you the reasons for people's cases? If not, why not?

in my view, slimer's original comment was nothing more than a joke and NAI. but I can easily imagine how someone else may not see it as just a joke and could have inferred some weird/unnecessary shade in it. I don't agree with that read, I don't immediately share Manatee's suspicion, but I can understand it so I also don't see it as disingenuous, especially for a page 1 read/vote. And that's entirely the level of thought I feel is necessary to evaluate the whole thing. I have a plausible town explanation for Manatee's behavior, no solid reason to prefer an alternative scum!explanation, and therefore it's not worth diving into further.

You can't seem to imagine this relatively simple town!Manatee explanation for his vote and that's more concerning to me. How much can Manatee really offer beyond what he's said already? He thought the shade that he saw in that post was weird so he voted it. What more would you expect him to explain? Yours doesn't feel like a productive line of questioning, it looks more like busy work to start conflicts and get a foot in the game. Maybe in the abstract, "are weird posts scummy?" is a good question for the Mafia Discussion board, but if you want to dive that deep into every single vote or claim that anyone makes you're going to rapidly lose sight of the bigger picture and create a bunch of tangential arguments that only become noise in the thread.

And what also looks bad is how you're strawmanning me here - I have never suggested that "the reasons for people's cases" don't matter to me. But Manatee's vote was a) not nearly at the level I would call a 'case', and b) already sufficiently explained for what it was

You just answered my questions... To you, my interest in the situation was scummy. I wanted to figure out how/why you were disinterested. I asked you about it. And you just now answered.

I can imagine it coming from town or scum, that is why I asked about it. I had questions. I wanted them answered. If I couldn't imagine them coming from town, my questions would've been paired with a vote. A vote that came later after manatee wouldnt acknowledge the questions. And were ultimately explained away as a misunderstanding. Which can come from town or scum, but doesnt pass the smell test.

I can see scum latching on to something pregame to insert THEMselves into the game immediately.

Again, I'm not offended if you didn't feel the need to dive into it, but I did. And I'm not exactly satisfied with the "so I'm being wagoned for a misunderstanding" bit. Not much of a wagon, and there wouldn't be one at all if he just answered the questions. I can't say for certain there wouldn't be I guess, but not answering was the biggest reason for voting him.

Can someone with meta knowledge of this person tell me if unnecessary walls are common for them?

Can you highlight the necessary and unnecessary parts please?

[lane0168]

UNVOTE: radiantcowbells

Why the unvote?

Because Im not trying to lynch rc right now.

But how about later?

How about now? Since this a catch up and all

Probably eventually. Given the history. But I'm going to do my best to read him correctly

[DS]

If I highlight the necessary and unnecessary parts the entire thing will be yellow

The entire thing will also be yellow if I just highlight the unnecessary parts

[DS]

In summation: I felt as if that entire train of thought was unnecessary and the wall was fluff. I've never played a game with pregame before but I can't imagine too much can be drawn from it.

[lane0168]

i don't really have one right now. slimer is someone who i remember seeing in a lot of the games that i read before my first game and around that time of my first games, but i don't really remember any specific meta nor do i think it would be smart to think that it'd be the same after all this time.

on an individual level, tone-wise i've felt like he's been pretty natural, but looking at it again just right now content-wise he's kind of lacking which makes me lean towards scum. i don't get the sense that there are reads that he really cares about from his posting - he's just sort of making conversation with people. that being said, i've been kind of sitting back when it comes to reads myself, so i'm not sure necessarily how scum-indicative it is.

obviously i was just talking about this but his concern over you sheeping me kind of pings me. like, is "if i realize that you're town i will help you lynch your scumreads" really something that's that scary to think about? it also seems to assume that you're town too - or at least, he hasn't showed any concerns that you might be scum doing all this.

I appreciate this post. It shows process of thought and a second guessing about personal reads which scum often lacks. Hard tr

Hard tr for essentially fence sitting and second guessing a null read? I'm not following that one

[DS]

I'm being an asshole, I'm sorry.

It could also be pink or blue or green or orange depending on your preferred highlighting orientation

[DS]

i don't really have one right now. slimer is someone who i remember seeing in a lot of the games that i read before my first game and around that time of my first games, but i don't really remember any specific meta nor do i think it would be smart to think that it'd be the same after all this time.

on an individual level, tone-wise i've felt like he's been pretty natural, but looking at it again just right now content-wise he's kind of lacking which makes me lean towards scum. i don't get the sense that there are reads that he really cares about from his posting - he's just sort of making conversation with people. that being said, i've been kind of sitting back when it comes to reads myself, so i'm not sure necessarily how scum-indicative it is.

obviously i was just talking about this but his concern over you sheeping me kind of pings me. like, is "if i realize that you're town i will help you lynch your scumreads" really something that's that scary to think about? it also seems to assume that you're town too - or at least, he hasn't showed any concerns that you might be scum doing all this.

I appreciate this post. It shows process of thought and a second guessing about personal reads which scum often lacks. Hard tr

Hard tr for essentially fence sitting and second guessing a null read? I'm not following that one

Thought progression is a uniquely town oriented spew. Scum already knows the alignment and has to explain their thoughts. Often times townies start typing and don't know where they are gonna land on someone until the words hit the page and the submit button is hit. That's what I was picking up on.

[lane0168]

In summation: I felt as if that entire train of thought was unnecessary and the wall was fluff. I've never played a game with pregame before but I can't imagine too much can be drawn from it.

You're correct. Not too much can be drawn from it. But if you draw nothing from it, then what do you get? Like you called out lady angel for nitpicking at game start... Scum and town have to do that if the game is going to go anywhere.

I'm going to assume you skimmed the game looking for things that stood out to you without really comprehending the game state. Considering to think that entire post was unnecessary from my point of view

[lane0168]

Do you have more evidence on lady other than nitpicking in her third post?

[lane0168]

RC, I notice that you have been tunneling NSG since post #17. What was this deeply insightful read that you got off of her yarrr post?

LMAO! I'm sorry, but how far off that link is got me lol

[DS]

In summation: I felt as if that entire train of thought was unnecessary and the wall was fluff. I've never played a game with pregame before but I can't imagine too much can be drawn from it.

You're correct. Not too much can be drawn from it. But if you draw nothing from it, then what do you get? Like you called out lady angel for nitpicking at game start... Scum and town have to do that if the game is going to go anywhere.

I'm going to assume you skimmed the game looking for things that stood out to you without really comprehending the game state. Considering to think that entire post was unnecessary from my point of view

You are 100% correct that I do not have a sense of the game state, which is one of the good/bad things about being a catchup sub. You can look at the thread objectively without being tainted by in thread machismo and yet if the context of a post doesn't translate to a reread, then, you can be negatively impacted.

Solid observation.

[DS]

Do you have more evidence on lady other than nitpicking in her third post?

How much more evidence could someone possibly have on a being with only 4 posts? No, her third post and the timing of her votes in reference to the wagons at the time are what I'm scumreading off of.

[lane0168]

Do you have more evidence on lady other than nitpicking in her third post?

How much more evidence could someone possibly have on a being with only 4 posts? No, her third post and the timing of her votes in reference to the wagons at the time are what I'm scumreading off of.

I retract my question... There's been enough talk about lady I didn't realize that was all there was