To start, rumour has it BuJ has been kinda lurky
1111, besides being the best #'d post, was pretty towny from BuJ when I replaced in. I still like it. It had lots of good thoughts I agreed with. A couple issues, though:
-townreads Sky/tw for weak reasons (basically TStBS)
-Has my slot/enigma/gamma/alonzoslot/cjv as his scumreads, which... haven't changed at all this whole game
-Uses hurt tags on cjv and says he'd like to vote for my slot (sorta similar to what enigma did regarding cjv, a sort of semi-defense of the slot that keeps it alive one more day in the absence of a vig)
In post 1126, BuJaber wrote:I guess something along these lines:
{Creature, me}
{Vex}
{A50, skitter}
{Ruru, TW}
-----null line----
{Gamma, cjv}
{Enigma}
{HWS, Frank}
These reads made sense for the time he posted them but I'm just noting that if you read BuJ's ISO looking to answer the question "Does it make sense to read BuJ as the groupscum to tw's traitor?" the answer is resoundingly "yes".
In post 1138, BuJaber wrote: In post 1134, Enigma wrote: In post 1126, BuJaber wrote:I guess something along these lines:
{Creature, me}
{Vex}
{A50, skitter}
{Ruru, TW}
-----null line----
{Gamma, cjv}
{Enigma}
{HWS, Frank}
Lol who puts themselves in their own readlist
Did I hit a nerve?
this didn't make any sense to me as a post
why say it?
Also regarding this readslist note that gamma is only a scumlean (important later)
1154 and
1243 area couple examples of questions Bu asks the answers to which don't seem to actually matter to him in any obvious way
In post 1248, BuJaber wrote:What's bad about the bolded? I acknowledge her posting was weird but overall the reasons to townread her outweigh the reasons to scumread her.
As for enigma yes we just finished our first game together as far as I recall and yes he was town and maybe he grabbed some pagetops there but he was not on a personal mission to grab pagetops like he seems to be on here. It felt more casual/situational in that game instead of deliberate.
I've read this post before but I'm kinda only now realizing that BuJ's scumread of enigma (which for awhile I agreed with) consists mostly of "his ISO is like just pagetops and nothing else"
Which would be a good point if BuJ hadn't seen enigma do that before?
But when confronted with the fact that, yes he had seen enigma do that before, BuJ's response is basically "yeah but it's scummy here"
which is weaksauce at best and scummy at worst
In post 1342, BuJaber wrote:Well thing is I don't think Enigma is scumhunting. He's posting a few very passive reads that are mostly just sheeping people and the rest of his posts are fluff. Maybe you don't agree with me on the pagetop stuff but let me ask you this: game goes on and reaches 5ish pages and one player has posted 0 reads, only a few comments on setup. He has only 2 votes in that period, his RVS vote and his joke vote on vex. He claims he's not a strong d1 player and relies a bit more on associatives so he starts to rev it up later on in the game. I'll concede I don't know his meta as this is my 2nd game with him but even for someone who isn't a d1 player, wouldn't you expect some effort at least? One or two reads, even if just a meta read. The playerlist is not filled with NM-type players. There was enough there to form some early reads.
For now though since this game is now over and I have confirmation that gamma slot flipped scum:
viewtopic.phpf=2&t=76913
I'll
VOTE: gamma for similar low level of activity and what seems to me like avoiding getting into it with anyone.
I had a soft meta scum read on him in that game that I didn't act on until he was guiltied. Turns out I was right.
I'm voting gamma or enigma. Vig target should be one of the lurkier options cjv/HWS.
Ejj slot not yet cleared ftr. If he doesn't get distracted with the later posts he would finish catching up faster if you ask me.
I guessssss his move onto Gamma here makes sense? But looking at the context of the day he's building a counterwagon to a tw wagon here, and he rides this slot while shading it weakly as the NM wagon builds. It's pretty icky from a vca perspective, and if someone off-wagon D1 was scum, it's probably BuJ over HWS
shading gamma d1
In post 1529, BuJaber wrote: In post 1520, ruru wrote:okay whatever I'm afk for the night
I'm not sure if what tw did is really the towntell I think it is, also the evasiveness is fairly pl-worthy
nm seems to be playing his scum meta so far
{skitter, a50 (skitter)} - this is an actual hard tr based on her being out of her scum meta and not a day 1 "oh skitter's presence in this game is +ev" type of thing, I really mean it this time
{vex} - assuming the self-meta is accurate
{a50, enigma}
{gamma}
{ejji}
{bujaber, hws, nm, tw (a50)}
{tw, nm (a50/tw)}
I'm trying out a new readslist format so people can see both my personal reads and aggregate reads in case I'm shot and the people I was sheeping flip red; it should be pretty self-explanatory
You think tw/nm are partners?
kinda funny post if tw/BuJ are actually the remaining red slots
In post 1655, BuJaber wrote:Tw - do you have a scum game where you posted a lot? I only have the one scumgame to go on and d1 you sort of played to that meta but d2 it's different. Like you're arguing more than I would expect but some of the things you're saying are just so weird.
I find it weird that ruru is able to push tw for bussing cjv which seems rather reachy. Like I don't think tw is obvtown here by any means, but I don't think the way he pushed cjv was scum-indicative. It only makes sense if you go into it thinking 'what would tw do if he repped into a scum slot' it doesn't feel like the correct order of thoughts. Unless ruru genuinenly looks at that and says oh that looks like bussing. If someone other than tw did the same thing would you also think they're bussing ruru? At least then I could understand. Just feels like an awkward attempt at bussing and if he is as good at it as you say I'd expect a smoother attempt.
Also coming from the same person the gamma tr is weird. You are prone to believing that scum!tw had this elaborate bussing strategy, but don't believe scum!gamma could fake forget his partner? Particularly someone who flaked from the site and wasn't talking much he's easily forgettable for real even.
Enigma seems like he's pushing an agenda/creating nk wifom and he continues to post rvs'y posts like 'first' which is just like... why man? A50 did TR him though. I also still think gamma's play is more in line with his scum meta.
I hypo inno alonzo
I need help sorting tw/ruru, vex/skitter still town, alonzo is town, scum pool for today is {ejj, enigma, gamma}
VOTE: gamma
After NM flipped red, BuJ goes back onto the same wagon he had the day before. This is weird especially given his later insistence that two large wagons next to each other usually have 1 scum.
Consistent reads can be towny but this seems a little forced
otoh hypo-inno on Alonzo makes sense fhpov
In post 1707, BuJaber wrote: In post 1705, skitter30 wrote:like i think it's easy to be confident cj slot was flipping scum if you know that he's scum if that makes sense
Slam dunk
But while my meta dive is iconsistent I'm leaning town for tw. I also don't think we should discount sky's play. Still can't she'd play scum so jestery.
There's a LOT of "sky couldn't have been scum! Too scummy!" in this ISO
In post 1745, BuJaber wrote: In post 1743, skitter30 wrote:the people i townread are: vex, ruru, enigma, creature
the people i don't are: buj, alonzo, tw, ge, ejji
and three of them are on that wagon
And that makes sense to you?
We know there's a traitor and a groupscum left alive.
You have to ask yourself if both could be on gamma in only 4 votes or if one of them is bussing the other (gamma) in only 4 votes.
If the answer is no to both of those then ejj should either be confirmed scum to you or you know for a fact you are townreading scum.
still think the bolded is icky
I'm not actually sure why this would make Alonzo definitely town. Like I get that two innos increases his town likelihood but...
Also it's not lost on me that BuJ and tw are the two who hypo-inno'd the Alonzo slot. Not sure what to think about that on the whole
In post 1825, BuJaber wrote:Yeah we tried this new strategy where 1 of us flakes out, 1 of us jesters it up then replaces out, and the last one refuses to bus either. Totally plausible
Seriously though, so much "whaaaaaat it can't be me/tw with nm!!" in this ISO
Too-honest scumslip?
In post 1828, BuJaber wrote:Because that was tw and not me and that was at a time when cjv wasn't an obvious lynch.
There were many other optioms to shade.
Scumslip?
In post 1835, BuJaber wrote: In post 1832, ruru wrote:I think tw is more likely to make endgame right now than ceejay was to make endgame even before tw claimed a guilty
I would agree but if that was the plan behind tw's bussing why wouldn't scum!me join the cjv wagon also?
...
In post 1846, BuJaber wrote:Well gamma I think is scum.
Vex and skitter I think are town regardless of how they vote.
Alonzo is hypothetically innocent
That leaves enigma who I still scumread and tw who's more like null.
Even if I accept that you would scumread two opposite behaviors in the same game, I still don't see how you jumo to me being a teammate of tw.
...
In post 2052, BuJaber wrote:What? How does my statement assume that? Recruited traitor is still a traitor
In post 2054, BuJaber wrote:Ahh okay nevermind ofrhz posted a recruited traitor PM and it says Mafia goon in the actual PM.
Pedit - you asking made me go back and check.
that's what happens when you skim mod posts.
Just quoting these to say that I still think it's possible scum who knows there's a traitor in the game has this "slip"
In post 2219, BuJaber wrote:Korina is town please don't make him write another essay on self-meta
I think we had it right earlier gamma v alonzo counterwagons points to 1 scum there.
Look how excited people got to vote elsewhere and how much more divided the VC is now.
Enigma + gamma scumteam
somewhat weak reasoning (town never has two wagons on town?) but more importantly, BuJ never takes this to its full logical extent - that post-gamma-flip, his hypo-inno on Alonzo could be wrong (as could any hypo-inno, since only guilties are 100% in this setup)
In post 2242, BuJaber wrote:Can't blame skitter for just sheeping.
Took a long time for y'all to see it.
VOTE: gamma
L-1
terrible addition to the gamma wagon
In post 2254, BuJaber wrote:{Tw, enigma, elephant, alonzo}
If I'm not cop that's my scumpool.
This is my scumpool if I'm cop:
{Enigma, elephant}
VOTE: Enigma
continues on the same scumread train from d1, no re-evaluation after his preferred lynch flipped green
In post 2259, BuJaber wrote:Elephant I understood why you thought scum bussed but why would gamma have to be town for that?
Like he was scummy and in day 2 was neck and neck for alonzo which points to 1 scum between them in most games.
Based on preds mostly and I feel your posts aren't particularly AI.
still doesn't consider Alonzo (who happens to be widely townread) here.... you get the picture.
In post 2305, BuJaber wrote: In post 2302, Enigma wrote:I’m still back to back travelling for work for the next two weeks so posting may be sporadic.
You just beat skitter in the VLA competition.
Phantismo.. got any past games where you repped into a scum slot?
In post 2309, BuJaber wrote:Yeah you are lol
I mean.. I wanted to see how genuine/convincing you can sound as scum. Don't think those will help for that.
How about just any recent scum games then?
Another set of questions that basically go nowhere
In post 2358, BuJaber wrote:I'm not arguing against the read I want to know your reasons if you please.
Because from my pov he's been given a case for you being scum but not really pushing it and like I expect you to be suspicious of him for that.
Tells tw "hey why aren't you scumreading ruru? Their case on you I'd think would make you scumread her..?" Then, when tw starts scumreading ruru:
In post 2499, BuJaber wrote:-snip-
Why are you trying to backtrack on your TR of ruru? She's been pretty consistent in her approach on you. What triggered you to change your approach to her now?
In post 2382, BuJaber wrote:Massclaim tomorrow.
Creature was NK meaning scum will likely NK based on hypo-innos next. If any investigatives exist they should be given one more day to get results. And since it doesn't look like we have vig/bg one investigative is guaranteed.
idk this is maybe scummy/maybe towny
Don't really want to elaborate on it
BuJaber wrote:
@skitter and performer ^ those are my reasons. Basically to increase the odds of a PR getting results one more day. If they do it should be enough to solve the game. And then we'd start tomorrow with an odd number.
@enigma - you over elephant because my scumread on you is longer and rooted in more information. Elephant has been talking and engaging with people and reacting to current stuff real time. He is sortable. I don't see myself realistically changing my mind on you without a confirmed inno. With my scumpool, my hypo-innos and my PoE the optimal lynch order is you > elephant.
This last post (getting to odd numbers of players, why he's scumreading enigma more than me) is a little towny...
Anyway he'd got more scum equity than a lot of players and him/tw(Performer) is getting so much scum equity as I read their ISOs that I kind of want a flip on one of them sooner rather than later
