Open 735: Watchmen Wanted - Game Over!

[Toranaga]

fuck sorry

VOTE: nauci

[Toranaga]

pushing for keyser today feels more agenda driven than anything and sesq was objectively scummy throughout

[Toranaga]

Setup

The setup for this game is Watchmen Wanted.

In this setup, there are:
3 Mafia Goons
1 Town Watcher
8 Town Backups

The mechanics are:
- Daystart
- As soon the current watcher dies, a randomly chosen town backup will replace them.
- The town cannot no-lynch, as such, plurality deadline rules apply to lynches.

Sample Role PMs

Spoiler: Mafia Goon

Welcome, [Player Name]. You are a Mafia Goon, along with your partners, [Player Name] and [Player Name].

Abilities:

Factional communication: During the night phase you may talk with your partners here [QuickTopic link].
Factional kill: Each night phase, one of you or your partners may perform the factional kill.

Win condition:

You win when all members of the town have been eliminated or nothing can prevent this from occurring.

Spoiler: Town Watcher

Welcome, [Player Name], you are a Town Watcher.

Abilities:

Each night phase, you may choose a player in the game to watch. You will see which players target them (if anybody).

Win condition:

You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.

Spoiler: Town Backup

Welcome, [Player Name], you are a Town Backup.

Abilities:

If the Watcher dies, you might replace them.

Win condition:

You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.

[Toranaga]

sigh

you're so towny today

[Toranaga]

eragon we've been playing this for a month and you still didn't know we couldn't no-lynch

[Toranaga]

absolutely yeah. we've discussed this too. if we could no-lynch the game would be gruesomely townsided of course.

[Toranaga]

nauci, you're suggesting the man that's arguing he needs to be lynched now isn't displaying anything towny in his ISO? I highly doubt that. if this is scum, it's quite abusive scum theatrics from an extremely talented actor.

MariaR has screamed for her to be the lynch the day before lylo while scum

Like I just view it as a theatrics stunt that pads out his post count in lieu of having to explain his thoughts

It feels like every time I've asked Keyser to explain his thought process he dodged or threw a small tantrum and called people conf biased or said that it was something town also does

Again, I have yet to see a single coherent narrative for a town keyser perspective on any other player in the game, whether it's reundo or tw or dunnnstral or ausuka or Eragon or volxen

He's failed to engage on any meaningful questions and is far more aggressive than I've seen his town game be

LMAO mariar <3

she is the nastiest scum on the site, though. I don't know anything about keyser but unless you prove to me he is a nasty emotional manipulator as scum I'm just going to townread this kind of thing.

[Toranaga]

I'm voting nauci now so I guess not

she immediately made me feel stupid about it though so I guess it is either you or reundo

[Toranaga]

you're fine with me

[Toranaga]

VOTE: reundo

[Toranaga]

ugh hi

[Toranaga]

I'm gonna hammer keyser

and yes I'm townreading him all game

[Toranaga]

VOTE: keyser soze

yolo

[Toranaga]

I'm bored of this game now so it is what it is

you can read my ISO later and figure out by yourself if this hammer vote is scummy or not, in case keyser flips town

[Toranaga]

yeah

otoh though, would I hammer as scum here? I actually don't think I would

[Toranaga]

if I'm scum, I'm winning this

[Toranaga]

:/

[Toranaga]

you're my favorite sheep in wolf's clothing, keyser

you didn't deserve to be lynched

pedit: yeah sucks to suck

you sound disappointed

[Toranaga]

never make decisions before lunch is a lesson

[Toranaga]

hardclaim not the watcher

lmao fuck the last scum in this game

I think it's nauci now tbh

[Toranaga]

no I mean I think nauci is scum

[Toranaga]

so it's one of you two? lmao

fuck what now

[Toranaga]

I only have to clear one of you

how hard can that be

[Toranaga]

I think Tora was scummy after that hammer, by I don’t see why Tora would kill reundo other for than this exact reason, WIFOM

So I’m not sure if the scum is (Tora/irrelelphant)

If ireelephant is scum they honestly deserves this game

killing reundo works for scum!me too. not only because it creates WIFOM, but also because trying to kill the watcher will either create another watcher (who could have been reundo even) or out me as scum if I get it wrong. imagine I'm working with a POE of you/irrel/nauci for watcher. if I kill nauci and irrel is watcher, he is likely watching her, and vice versa. if I kill you and you're the watcher, we'll have a new inno today which could be reundo and I'm running against nauci/irrel who are townier than I am.

it works even better for you of course, and works perfectly for irrel. if irrel is scum, this is the play. he can't target nauci on the risk of getting outed for it, and he is the most townread slot out of everyone alive so he doesn't need the reundo mislynch.

[Toranaga]

I never scumread anything irrelephant did and think his attitude both around the keyser lynch, pushing me for my hammer, and today after the reveal are genuine

I was strong scumreading eragon through most of d2. I'll revisit those posts this gameday.

[Toranaga]

tinfoil theory: Eragon is scum and his partner(s) felt the need to welcome him in thread to try to seem like they're not talking in pt

Not a serious theory jsut something to consider I guess

[Toranaga]

would dunn dump this brick of WIFOM itt when eragon is scum and volxen literally welcomed him to the thread?

[Toranaga]

check the post numbers so you can see how the wagons progressed

Votecount 1.13

Sesq (5) - Dunnstral 117, northsidegal 307, the worst 308, volxen 330, Ausuka 345
volxen (3) - Reundo 220, Sesq 222, Keyser Söze 224
Keyser Söze (1) - Huntress 393
Toranaga (1) - Irrelephant11 255
Huntress (1) - Eragon 194

Not voting: Toranaga 110

The deadline for Day 1 is 1:52 pm CT on Tuesday, September 4, in (expired on 2018-09-04 14:51:53).

Votecount 1.14

volxen (6) - Reundo 220, Sesq 222, Keyser Söze 224, Toranaga 402, the worst 406, Ausuka 408
Sesq (3) - Dunnstral 117, northsidegal 307, volxen 330
Keyser Söze (1) - Huntress 393
Toranaga (1) - Irrelephant11 255
Huntress (1) - Eragon 194

Not voting: N/A

The deadline for Day 1 is 1:52 pm CT on Tuesday, September 4, in (expired on 2018-09-04 14:51:53).

Mod notes

- @Keyser Soze: The deadline in this vote count and the first post of the thread are both current and accurate.

[Toranaga]

missed volxen's colour

I'm the only one that knows now volxen was NOT bussed d1

[Toranaga]

NKA is some real astrological crap imo

irrelephant is the only player left that I never suspected and I don't think I'm ever gonna change an entire month of doing nothing but townread a slot to something else now

I agree eragon's posting today was scummy too at any rate so alas

[Toranaga]

VOTE: eragon

and that's the game

[Toranaga]

either eragon is scum and both irrelephant and nauci will get it right because they're smart players who can parse this out correctly after 100 pages of content

or

it's irrelephant and so reading eragon as scum will be tough cause eragon is not scum

but if it's irrelephant he already won cause I agree with nauci and eragon that he is the clearest player left

I'm unwilling to work more on this game but if you want me to I can try.

[Toranaga]

so you guys do the reading, I'll sit back and enjoy not having to do that

:sunglasses:

[Toranaga]

who watches the watchmen?

[Toranaga]

so you guys do the reading, I'll sit back and enjoy not having to do that

:sunglasses:

So you both lock town Irrelephant11? Why?

you're asking me a question I already answered

I townread irrelephant the entire game. I townread everything he posts. he is not even sometimes NAI, he is straight up towny. if he is scum then fuck me, right? but it's the same as keyser soze. there's nothing scummy in irrelephant and he oozes town in several spots. his behaviour this gameday was towny, fairly suspicious and reasonable. also showing effort and will to understand what's going on, unlike eragon.

I was checking some of the vcs yesterday and he voted dunnstral a lot. votes dunn, then moves to other people, then back to dunn etc. on d1 he is interacting so much with volxen and is the one having the best ideas about it and treating volxen in the most fair way possible while maintaining he should be the lynch, while also tinfoiling reasonably about volxen being bussed while not voting volxen himself and trying to get a grasp of his head before the gameday ends. I'm townreading the slot for that D1 EOD. that's ~never a wolf, and if irrel is a wolf he is about the most talented thing I ever played against and I'm just not gonna bother, cause that d1 EOD is pure as fuck and nothing will change my head. what does he do d2 then? he starts the gameday making the associative reads, both wrong, on volxen having overexplained null reads, which is nuanced and towny and shows he is putting real effort into solving. and then... IDK. all his stances are coming from overtly towny perspective and feels hard to fake.

[Toranaga]

this is going from memory and I'm drunk but yeah

[Toranaga]

I was the last one posting content which is why I didn't post any content

don't replace me lmao

[Toranaga]

ugh I didn't give up, it's not on me to convince anyone of anything though

you have 100 pages of content to parse through if you're town, why do you need me saying anything?

[Toranaga]

I don't like this line of questioning btw. would scum me "give up" after getting so far? is anyone else not currently apathetic?

[Toranaga]

ugh lemme do some work

I guess analyzing spew can be a start

[Toranaga]

dunnstral:

1) interaction with NSG about kop/eragon:

Spoiler:

dunnstral seems kind of scummy right now, so that's a good a place as any for a vote.

i remember someone asking or pondering upon why i wasn't voting GNB if i was apparently scumreading him, and while i didn't and still don't really understand the mindset of what he was saying, it didn't really ping me as all that scum indicative on an instintcutal level.

anyways,
VOTE: dunnstral

I think Keyser is town from the quick glancing I made. I have played with Keyser quite a bit under a different alias on another website, and kinda know what his town game is, and what his scum game is. Unless his game play is different over here compared to over on the other website I play with him, but at the moment, I am getting his town game play from what I've seen so far.

how accurate would you say you are when it comes to reading keyser? i just want to know your degree of confidence here.

on a different note, kop's staccato sentences with all of the commas are standing out to me. from memory i don't really remember him talking like that, although i could certainly be wrong here. i'm going to check for myself soon (if not right after this then this should serve as a reminder), but does anyone else who's played with kop remember that?

Yeah commas are scummy, somebody should look into that

For real though I've got no clue what Kop's normal posting style is like - why do you think the commas are AI?

some things are standing out here:

- dunn does not react to NSG's scumread and vote on him, and chooses soft defending kop instead.
- the soft defense on Kop is not a townread on him, and dunn shows in #173 he doesn't know how kop plays and has no real reason to be jumping on nsg, other than to distract her from her own dunn scumread.
- dunn assumes NSG is scumreading Kop when she is not doing that.

this is one of those interactions that are incredibly AI and if I was any good at mafia I'd be able to tell exactly what's dunn's relationship with Kop in these posts, but I'm not so I don't know if I'm interepreting this correctly.

I think the most obvious one that points to SvS is dunn assuming NSG is scumreading Kop. Coming from the position of someone who was just voted by NSG, and then reads her talk about someone else in the very next post, I believe Dunn is more likely to jump to the conclusion that it's a scumread, if that other person also happens to be scum. As in, a little bit of TMI, a little bit of defensiveness.

If Kop is town, would dunn act like this? I feel like dunn is more likely to adress the scumread on himself if Kop isn't a slot he is aligned with. I think it's more likely he'd simply respond to the post of NSG voting him before he'd even bother thinking about her post on Kop.

2) that "eragon is scum" tinfoil post:

Spoiler:

Aye this playerlist is lit AF.

That’s literally the reason I joined even though schools starting.

Driving home from the airport, so will maybe do stuff later
(Or just meme with teh wurst and tora)

Welcome, Eragon.

tinfoil theory: Eragon is scum and his partner(s) felt the need to welcome him in thread to try to seem like they're not talking in pt

Not a serious theory jsut something to consider I guess

it's been pretty hard for me to look at this post and not see it as spewing eragon town, because why in his right mind would eragon literally point at his partner that just arrived, and then his other scum partner, and "tinfoil" that they're scum together cause they greeted each other? I mean it's weird as it is that he did it pointing at volxen.

but then... why would he say that shit as scum vs town!eragon anyway? did he think to tie eragon to volxen just so they could lynch eragon after volxen died? and if that's the case, why did he not bring up this read on d2?

so the more I read into it, the more I think... it could just be smart distancing and trying to appear towny with "tinfoils".

3) scum is in here

Spoiler:

Irrelephant11
NSG
Eragon
maybe TW

Those are names I'd be willing to flip

there are interesting things in dunn's d2 that point to me being town a lot, but that's not my job to tell you. but a note for myself that he did not make a 4 player list without scum in it.

eragon's placement is more likely scum stylistically, just cause you're more likely to hide than to show as first name the one person that's your scum partner. unless you're running a bus job which by the looks of dunn's ISO, he is not.

and yeah, he rolls over and votes eragon while not trying to case him or anything. no effort to try and flip eragon here which points heavily as SvS and is interestingly not a thing anyone noticed before about dunn. he did not fight his lynch at all. he voted eragon and peaced off.

[Toranaga]

I skimmed through volxen but there isn't really anything he says about either Kop or irrelephant. his interactions late d1 with irrelephant, coming from both sides, point strongly to volxen not being scum with irrelephant. irrelephant seems interested in volxen's alignment and open minded to the things volxen is saying, while volxen seems to be legitimately trying to get irrelephant to townread him. also fair to note, irrelephant was the one in the thread asking volxen to claim. there's more from irrelephant side, but just reading volxen's ISO you can already see the unlikelihood of him being scum with irrelephant.

[Toranaga]

something odd I noticed:

Spoiler:

Welcome, The Worst. Long time no see...

Hi everyone!

Starting to read through now.

Welcome, Huntress.

Aye this playerlist is lit AF.

That’s literally the reason I joined even though schools starting.

Driving home from the airport, so will maybe do stuff later
(Or just meme with teh wurst and tora)

Welcome, Eragon.

tinfoil theory: Eragon is scum and his partner(s) felt the need to welcome him in thread to try to seem like they're not talking in pt

Not a serious theory jsut something to consider I guess

I don't know if that's coincidental but the only possibly SvS "welcome" post by volxen was the one dunnstral decided to put a tinfoil hat on.

[Toranaga]

I'm not gonna read the whole game or irrel/eragon ISO's, so this is my final work in this game. scum spew points to eragon being scum in my interpretation. I'm not moving my vote so if I'm wrong I'm wrong.

[Toranaga]

you know what, I owe it to you guys. lemme start by ISOing irrel cause it's shorter.

[Toranaga]

Impressions through ISOing irrelephant:

I like the way he is pushing keyser around #5 in his ISO. Irrelephant is trying to figure out if keyser knew what hypoclaiming was before post #13 in the game, which by the looks on how that conversation progressed, keyser didn't. #12 is a pretty good early suspicion on dunn. In fact the whole progression on dunn is very towny of irrel, both in general and in a circumstance where dunnstral is actually scum which is the case.

1) Irrel is casing dunn before it's cool to do so

Spoiler:

I merely acknowledged and thanked him for his recommendations (to basically only claim if you have a guilty). This sentiment was echoed by a couple others.

I did not want to chat about all his formulas, that’s not mafia to me.

Yeah that's fair
I'm pretty much over it as much as you are
Talk to me about Dunnstral

Can remember playing with him (he was town I was scum I believe) and he obliterated me. Could be on MS or other mafia website. Super quiet start so far from him... he hasn’t ‘arrived’ yet.. I thought town him would take lead today.

Yeah that's fair
I'm pretty much over it as much as you are
Talk to me about Dunnstral

Was your vote for him not RVS? Didn’t realise there could be more meat to it? Guy’s only made one post

No my vote was RVS but I can't decide how to feel about his one post being a response to Burger's game theory stuff. He didn't participate in RVS, or correct Burger on the definition of hypoclaiming, or suggest anything was AI

It's the lack of content from a player that has shown up that I find interesting

points at irrelephant being town in no uncertain manner, doesn't it? not only as he is swaying his attention from keyser to dunn as a potential scumread, but he is bringing town!keyser into this conversation about dunn and then giving a very reasonable, nuanced explanation on why dunn's start is possibly scummy. this is really good.

and then... this actually gets kinda worrysome. oh my.

so.

all this talk about dunn being maybe scum because of one post, but he doesn't re-vote dunn and then rather inexplicably says:

Dunnstral is town
Toranaga is town but I believe in your ability to step it up
Agree that Volxen might be a scum too

and this boring ISO just became kinda spicy. alright. there's nothing before this post that even indicates irrelephant is townreading dunn, so I'm sure he'll get to explaining it later on. and there's nothing on volxen, but now "he might be a scum too", which is fucking weirdly phrased enough that I think it's a SHROOP, and ALARMBELLS.JPG to a guy who is shrooping in a sentence about a scum player being scum.

but then his other posts are pretty good. slots of small towny things but I like him bugged about GNB in #34 of his ISO, and I think it's very pertinent to be worried about that post GNB asks him if he is "distancing" from GNB. it really is odd. #35 is a good conclusion to metadiving sesq, as I did the same and concluded the same, so it shows he is doing some real work.

#38 is long and I might have a lot to parse through so I'm stopping this now and continuing later.

[Toranaga]

IDK what a lasik is but congrats nauci!

eragon still the scum between eragon and irrel hopefully

[Toranaga]

IDK what a lasik is but congrats nauci!

eragon still the scum between eragon and irrel hopefully

I'm paying to get lasers shot at my eyeballs ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ

I see what you mean

[Toranaga]

let tora endgame you please

[Toranaga]

got prodded so lol

let me put the nail in the coffin and seal this game for us, win or lose

what eragon just posted here was scummy and needs death

he is treating irrel as conftown when he is not, and he is doing that while putting zero work in the game this gameday. the self hammer part is senseless to be something he is thinking of doing when he is town, and pointing it out just feels to me like he is adding layers to his scum!eragon AtE. the whole "idgaf" thing just doesn't feel genuine, does it? yeah maybe rl is taking over, it happened to me too, but "honestly idgaf about this game anymore"? why even say that? and now, 102 pages in after so many dead people worked so hard for town to win this. he is gonna say he doesn't give a fuck? I call it scum.

alright if I'm wrong I'm wrong, let's kill eragon and figure it out yes nauci?