Open 735: Watchmen Wanted - Game Over!

[Irrelephant11]

Hi everyone
VOTE: Dunnstral
before lylo

[Irrelephant11]

Wow yay a townread (nsg)
Hypoclaiming is not what Burger thinks it is. Hypoclaiming is having every player say "If I got a guilty on someone last night, it was ____" or something to that effect.
Then, if and when the watcher flips from a NK, we have some idea of their previous night results. The problem with this is that most players will forget to actually act like they got the guilty they said they got. Also, with watcher, it's rare to get any result, so it's hard to hypoclaim "no result".
On the other hand, most of these are only problems because they make the watcher a clearer NK target. Since everyone is a backup, this isn't as big a deal (though it still matters because we lose one night of watching if scum NKs watcher)

Pretty sure the answer is "no hypoclaiming". If you get a guilty, drop that player down in your reads or start to tunnel them or just say you got a guilty, honestly. Lynching scum is worth losing one night of Watching, imo.

@Sesq or @Keyser have you played together before?

[Irrelephant11]

Oh okay 'cause originally I thought Sesq was just asking you to "please please townread me" in a genuine way
I see now what was meant

[Irrelephant11]

Keyser why ask about what to do with lurkers?

[Irrelephant11]

Irrelephant you aren’t trying to distance yourself from me by addressing my direct question with an indirect tense response right?

I don't know what this question means

[Irrelephant11]

Oh, I get it. Yeah that was just because I was talking more to Keyser than to you - since he was the one who asked about hypoclaiming

@Keyser did you know what hypoclaiming was when you asked?

[Irrelephant11]

You seem eager to shut down the few things we have to talk about - there's not a lot else AI yet, and it's not like the game is too long or something, so why shut things down so?

Also, my question is potentially AI. So you didn't know what hypoclaiming was when you asked?

[Irrelephant11]

I also don't want to discuss whether or not we should hypoclaim

I do want to know whether or not you knew what it was when you asked about it

[Irrelephant11]

You seem to think you know why I'm asking this, and suggesting my question is therefore bad. You don't know why I'm asking this, though, clearly, so maybe just let me play how I want to
I know trying to shut down conversations you find unfruitful is something you do as town, but it can still just be really frustrating and unhelpful to those trying to read you through their own methods

Did you know what it was before this game? yes/no is all I need and then I'll explain and we can all move on

[Irrelephant11]

mm on re-read agree. The fact that you did so with multiple players is what made me feel like you were doing it about more than one subject

[Irrelephant11]

Well because the AI-ness is related to your answer

whatever I'm mostly just squinting and seeing if there's scumminess it's early game obvs

The thing I mayyybe find sus about Keyser is how he accepted Burger's explanation/analysis of hyopclaiming as a good one, when it wasn't (because he wasn't talking about hypoclaiming). I'd expect town!Keyser to be like "no that's not what I mean, someone else answer" if he knew what hypoclaiming was. I'd expect scum!Keyser to move on and try to let it be a small reason to townread him without too much focus on his slot, if he knew what hypoclaiming was.

If he didn't know what hypoclaiming was, it's not AI. So *shrug*, I guess this isn't super useful since apparently Keyser doesn't remember

[Irrelephant11]

Yeah that's fair
I'm pretty much over it as much as you are
Talk to me about Dunnstral

[Irrelephant11]

No my vote was RVS but I can't decide how to feel about his one post being a response to Burger's game theory stuff. He didn't participate in RVS, or correct Burger on the definition of hypoclaiming, or suggest anything was AI

It's the lack of content from a player that has shown up that I find interesting

[Irrelephant11]

hm? he's detached in a not-scum way, but your vote stays?

[Irrelephant11]

yeah, almost definitely. But it's still unusual imo to have one's first post be a pop-in "you missed a spot" about game theory, ignoring both RVS and any sort of push to get past RVS

just trying to find anything to talk about, really

[Irrelephant11]

mm I think I want Dunnstral to know he's being scrutinized
he tricked me in lylo last time we played together so prolly he already knows that anyway

[Irrelephant11]

I mean sometimes
Other times pressure from being closely analyzed is what causes them to show their true colors

[Irrelephant11]

Also nobody dare TR me for that I did a bunch of shitty math only to come to the conclusion that its business as usual as far as claiming goes
in my last game a bunch of people town read me simply for effort and It blew my fucking minds as to why
I put up with it because I was town and people were having a hard time reading me but I'd like to get it out there that effort is not a one to one correlation with scuminess
a lack of effort is a good indicator of scum but a presence of effort does not indicate town

Anyways let that be a lesson to never do gametheory math late at night because youre bound to make idioitic mistakes, theres still a not great part of the stupidly simple model i used that doesn't account for the fact that T contains M in it, I should have broken it into P=t+M for more generalized use to make the death equation a bit easier to see the relationships

Why did you feel the need to "remind" us not to townread you for posting a mathematical proof? I find it a bit odd to automatically assume that people would give you free towncred just for that one early game contribution. I get your point about people making the mistake of townreading based on effort alone, but I really don't think it was necessary to explicitly say that you don't deserve towncred for sharing a mathematical proof.

Yeah, we kind of already covered this? It's on one of the three pages between the post you quoted and the post you wrote. There's nothing else you'd like to comment on?

VOTE: Sesq

[Irrelephant11]

I just wanted to move my vote to someone more interesting/confusing
Agreed with Ausuka though that it's slightly towny how Sesq self-contradicts within a post

Disagree with Ausuka about VOTE: 2.178, who seems maybe overeager to justify eir own actions? on re-read

Ausuka you asked "what thoughts are people supposed to have about Dunnstral considering he's only made one mechanic-related post back in RVS?"
This is my question exactly. What does Dunnstral want us to think about him making only one mechanic-related post? Does he want us to just forget about him? Why avoid RVS if he felt RVS wasn't over? Why say so little if he thought RVS was over? Out of those with little to no content, his slot was and is most interesting to me (like 2% interesting, compared to other slots' 0%), which is why I brought him up.

Agreed re:Reundo overreacting to Keyser. I've done the same to Keyser though

And I don't buy into that shit of "act bad then attract scum who try and attacks you or buys into it" because town has every right reason to call you out on that as scum does so its just a big showy waste of everyone's time that will cast doubt on ones self to the rest of the town

When you say you don't "buy into" it, do you mean you don't believe people who say it or you just think it's bad play from town?

[Irrelephant11]

weird choice of posts to share comments on:

- first one about set-up talk
- second one about a previous game
- third one about early D1 pre-flip paranoia
- unexplained vote

Can you explain why this is suspicious?

You've ignored some of the more pertinent (AI) moments of the game so far to share observations of 3 areas I'm not sure will help you find scum.

Plus, curious to see your naked vote explained (it's not RVS, as you said it's "serious").

Keyser do you think it's true or not that Dunnstral was responding to everything said to/about him?

@dunnstral at some point please do explain the sesq vote
no rush tho

@sesq Based on my last game with Keyser, he does this sort of "I'm done talking about it" thing as town. idk if he'd do it as scum, but it's something that weirded me out last game like it is to you now and it turned out to just be playstyle/personality.

[Irrelephant11]

Sure - I just mean the list of things he talked about were all responses to things said to/about him

[Irrelephant11]

Sure - I just mean the list of things he talked about were all responses to things said to/about him

Ah ok - well, you were the first person to name drop him (bring direct attention to his slot), but he hasn't addressed your suspicion yet...?

I guess this is a point

[Irrelephant11]

@Ausuka he just feels overeager to provide reasoning for his votes. At this early stage, as NSG pointed out, there’s a lot more for town to gain by keeping things close to the chest at times. 2718 seems like he’s the one that wants towncred (as opposed to the townsite reason for oversharing - to actually help others sort)
Really scraping the bottom of the barrel for reads here, though, I admit

VOTE: reundo

[Irrelephant11]

Townreading Ausuka, northsidegal, Kop, and Keyser to some extent (roughly in that order)
I'll try to ISO to get some more reads soon

[Irrelephant11]

then make something

[Irrelephant11]

VOTE: 2.718

[Irrelephant11]

I’ve only been scum once. I didn’t do this but take that with a grain of salt

[Irrelephant11]

Dunnstral is town
Toranaga is town but I believe in your ability to step it up
Agree that Volxen might be a scum too

[Irrelephant11]

Hi Ausuka let's talk

[Irrelephant11]

Between the two of us I bet we can find scum

[Irrelephant11]

I was looking to start a wagon, and Reundo seemed lynchbait-y enough that some scum might jump on after it had three votes
That didn't happen, so I'm wondering if that makes him scummy (partners avoided him) or if this game is just this game

I'm also bad at finding scum D1, but we can try to PoE. You're my strongest townread, so that's my starting point for now

[Irrelephant11]

Because NSG is hard townreading you and one of the following is true:
-She's town and probably correct
-She's scum and correct
-You're both scum <--- in this situation, I have no useful reads on any players, so I'm assuming it's not this

[Irrelephant11]

I think northsidegal has shown some insight into other's motivations in a way that scum!her might have a hard time doing
I think Keyser's actions have been anti-town (shutting down conversation on any level D1 is anti-town imo), but he's not all that scummy, either. I've seen him do the same as town and get incorrectly scumread (including by me) so I'll give him grace as long as he gets some good work in this game day

gotta go afk be back soonish

[Irrelephant11]

Post count also says Keyser town (only he and I have posted more than the mod)

[Irrelephant11]

GNB is replacing out but his slot is meh.
He spent a lot of time talking about Keyser's question
I do wonder about his question to me "You're not distancing from me, are you?" because why would I intentionally distance myself from him as either alignment, unless we were both scum? Wish I could ask him about this, but in the meantime it mayyyybe sounds like he's scum worried about failing to be on the same side of things as town? It's a stretch but it's enough (combined with NSG's early point about calling his own work out as NOT TOWNY EVERYONE) to not include him in townreads
Hopefully his replacement turns things up a notch

[Irrelephant11]

Sesq

A quick meta read says the only thing towny about this slot is something they've also done as scum (changing their mind within a post)
so null on sesq, which is disappointing

[Irrelephant11]

No clue why Kop joined me on my vote?
@Kop?

[Irrelephant11]

VOTE: volxen

[Irrelephant11]

I see nothing that is worth my attention.

then make something

VOTE: 2.718

why do you think that comment warrants a vote? very interested in your thought process here - perhaps this won't hold true for e*12 as a person specifically, but i would always imagine that scum in that situation would either post nothing at all or would try to come up with something they don't actually care about to talk about in order to look engaged. i actually townread him for that comment.

it reminds me of the way blackstar played in open 728, if anyone cares at all. if someone wants me to elaborate on this i can.

I agree that 2.718 was towny in that post. I was "making something", both as an example and to try to get the game going

it angers me the way dunnstral has framed my argument, genuinely.

Ehhh I think it's tvt if I had to guess. Feels like you're saying "his posting style is slightly different, I see it in the punctuation" which I guess is something in this mostly slow game, but dunnstral is right that it comes across as a little silly for those of us who don't see what you're talking about intuitively

It’s been somewhat hard to try and get reads on everyone since the game started out with a lot of activity in the beginning and then quickly died way down, but here are some preliminary reads that I have so far:

Town Reads:

Keyser - I actually like that he started the game by asking about hypoclaiming in 13, it showed that right off the bat he wanted to strategize on how to potentially make things more difficult for the scumteam. This is only my second game on this site so I don’t have any firsthand experience with hypoclaiming or its effectiveness, but I think it’s not likely that a member of the scumteam would suggest this as a tactic, since it could, theoretically, allow the watcher to reveal who they got a guilty on while making it more difficult for the scumteam to identify the real watcher.

Overall, I feel like he is someone that has been genuinely trying to gamesolve and move the game forward. He hasn’t done anything that comes across as scummy to me.

Null Reads:

northsidegal – I’m not really sure what to make of the whole comma’s thing. It seems like a stretch, but maybe she will have more to say about it.

GameNBurger – As I mentioned in 125, GNB is currently a null read for me as most of his content is about the math proof, not wanting to be townread for the math proof, hypoclaiming, and lurking. I originally asked him why he felt the need to go out of his way to tell all of us not to townread him in 104, as I found this a bit suspicious and thought his response to my question might potentially be alignment indicative. However, I found his response in 108 to be fairly neutral, and not enough in and of itself to make me lean towards townreading him or scumreading him. Of course, he is being replaced so I will have to see what his replacement does, but for now this slot is still null for me.

Scum Reads:

2.718 – I really didn’t like his post-RVS opening in 91. I feel like he tried to completely misrepresent what Keyser really meant when he said that he didn’t want to talk about hypoclaiming/setup past page 1, and even after Keyser clarified this in 92 (that he wasn’t “forbidding” discussion but rather that he didn’t want to partake in it himself), 2.718 still continued to press the issue in 101.

I also didn’t like that in 91 2.718 was quick to side with Reundo in the Keyser vs Reundo argument that was going on at the time. 2.718 made the comment here that “Reundo's 46 is a little annoying but I like how he looked at everyone”. At the time, Reundo only had two posts, 46 and 50, in which he mainly focused on attacking Keyser, with only brief references made to Sesq, GameNBurger, and northsidegal in 50. 2.718’s post made it sound like Reundo was taking a balanced look at “everyone”, when in reality he was primarily just hammering down on Keyser. I feel like this was a very weak reason for 2.718 to jump in so quickly to side with Reundo.

I also find his town read of Reundo questionable in 151. He gave him a town score of 4.5, and all he really had to say was that Reundo’s post in 119 was “great”, without stating why he thought it was great or pro-town. So once again, he is defending Reundo without really providing any explanation or reasoning. And then in 182, he literally says “I see nothing that is worth my attention”, as if he is simply not interested in trying to find scum anymore.

VOTE: 2 718281828459

I think that this is mostly not a very good post and is honestly probably scum (one townread, one scumread, and two nullreads? Why include the nullreads, if it can safely be assumed they're at the same level as anyone you didn't mention? Seems like fluffposting, or posting about a scum partner for the sake of it (note to self: if this flips scum, look closer at NSG and GNB's replacement)).
However, at the same time, I do find the 2.718/Reundo interactions interesting.

I see this picked up remotely but I'm not gonna put any effort in it just yet

Dumb
Potentially looking to get the same towncred NSG just said 2.718 should have for his earlier "meh" post

I don't really understand the town-reads of volxen. Everything he's posted seems like surface-level scum-hunting based mostly around points that have already been brought up by others, and as a whole it seems like he's much more interested in garnering why player X scum-reads player Y than providing scum-reads of his own. I'm more worried about him than 2.718 at the moment.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: volxen

VOTE: volxen

Yeah, i can see that

VOTE: volxen

VOTE: volxen

VOTE: volxen

This momentum is pretty weird - I don't think Reundo's case in 220 is that compelling. Sesq looks bad here.

Agreed, though I was sort of hoping we'd get to L-1 before this was said so as to give scum maximum scumtelling opportunity (e.g. if someone placed intent to hammer they'd be realllll scummy because this isn't really a case)
Sesq is definitely the worst here because my assumption is that Keyer's vote mirrored mine (getting a wagon going) and Ausuka's was based on volxen's more recent scummy post

Who was town reading Volxen?

Volx looks town to me

You were? Also 2.718 in his reads list. What's not compelling about my case?

Do you actually think your case is worth L-2? I'm not townreading volxen but neither am I really townreading you yet and I think it's obvious that regardless of your or volxen's alignment someone on this wagon is likely opportunistic scum

[Irrelephant11]

I definitely don't feel like you're the first to bring it up????? Half the conversation has been "why is this so quiet"

VOTE: Toranaga

[Irrelephant11]

@Volxen in your previous readslist why did you include more nullreads than scum or town reads?

[Irrelephant11]

Would you consider a toranaga vote as well

[Irrelephant11]

I mean you empty sheeped me onto 2.718 so why not onto Toranaga as well?

[Irrelephant11]

I'd vote for numbers, because he is a one that stood out to me, from the quick glance,

I mean if you think I was sheeping your "reasoning" here or your interest in voting him you're wrong. I clearly started the wagon on him because of his refusal to be productive, and you almost immediately followed with a vote without comment.

Whatever that's a fruitless argument and I'll concede that your vote had some "progression" before I voted the slot. I townread you anyway so I'll drop it

I am interested in voting Toranaga because I think he's playing similarly to 2.718, but he's doing the scummy things second. I guess Tor has slightly better pushing, but I think a wagon on a slot getting replaced is a bad choice

[Irrelephant11]

whatever if keyser/kop/ausuka/nsg mostly come to a consensus I'll vote there. I'm V/LA-ish from now till Monday

[Irrelephant11]

Reundo is probably town too

[Irrelephant11]

EWO welcomeee

volxen part of it is that there’s been too many active lurkers for it to be AI for them all

[Irrelephant11]

I’ll vote Sesq if that’s the lynch

[Irrelephant11]

@NSG Sesq seems like a less than ideal lynch (not as bad as other slots, a little lynchbaity) but I was (and still sort of am, given the holiday) just trying to pop in while busy IRL. I don’t have a good enough reason to townread the slot to say I wouldn’t vote there, so I wanted to show I’ll compromise there

@Keyser that is actually a pretty good point and considering you used that reasoning to arrive at correct conclusions that went over my head last game maybe I should sheep you about it. Are you still hoping to lynch volxen?

[Irrelephant11]

Intent to hammer before deadline
Volxen, if you see this, claim

[Irrelephant11]

ehhhh how useful is claim if we all know what scum will claim and cc'ing is a bad idea
hm

[Irrelephant11]

@eragon and huntress

How do you read each other?

[Irrelephant11]

we've got a couple hours might as well use 'em

Anyone else around?

@Huntress, what would you say if I told you scummy word choices were a reason to townread Keyser?

pedit: whatever you're thinking

[Irrelephant11]

hmmm okay, I like the thought process there

did you do a readslist yet?

[Irrelephant11]

nvm you didn't
Why is the worst town, though?

[Irrelephant11]

Oh I forgot it was plurality! Great, no need to hammer and we can use the rest of the time

[Irrelephant11]

@eragon,

what would you say if I told you scummy word choices were a reason to townread Keyser?

[Irrelephant11]

posting style

And that's a good response. I do suggest that posting style/word choice is NAI for Keyser. I got caught up in scumreading him last game for word choices I thought were "stiff", "fake", or even "revealing of his scum mindset" and he was town all along (and more perceptive than me to boot). So while I don't want to get too involved in ending arguments that could reveal AI things, I think I do want to step in early to stop other players from making the same mistake as me

[Irrelephant11]

Yeah that isn't what I meant. I mean that I don't want to shut down productive arguing that other players are doing. In this case, though, I am shutting down this argument (or trying anyway) because I think it's not productive.

[Irrelephant11]

lol YOU dw I was more interested in eragon's alignment than yours
feeling pretty good about you being town
At least for this game day

[Irrelephant11]

@tw why did you at one point say volxen/reundo isn't s/s?

[Irrelephant11]

lololol

Well, let's try to get another lynch through?

Watcher can counterclaim tomorrow so they don't die tonight if this is a fake claim

[Irrelephant11]

Or do we kill volxen on the assumption that he's lying and if he's watcher he'll be replaced by the time night phase starts?

Is that how that works?

[Irrelephant11]

- As soon the current watcher dies, a randomly chosen town backup will replace them.

It is how that works

So our choices:

-Assume he's lying, lynch anyway. If we're wrong, fine, someone else becomes watcher
-Assume he's telling the truth, move the lynch somewhere else. If we're wrong, wait to counterclaim tomorrow when we can get a 1v1
-See if the real watcher is around to counterclaim, and if so, get them to claim, so we can resolve the 1v1 today. We lose a night of watcher

[Irrelephant11]

lol two hours before deadline

The realllllly fun part is that we could lynch anyone with just the people online now

But prolly it'll just be volxen

Volxen if you're town do more than claim PR please, don't just disappear

[Irrelephant11]

I'm not watcher

yet

[Irrelephant11]

Unless I am and I've decided the best plan is to lynch him without counterclaim
I'll let you decide

[Irrelephant11]

My thing is, though, if volxen is scum, he never gets away with this plan

[Irrelephant11]

He dies next game day, probably. The best he gets is either a counterclaim (we lose a night of watcher & kill him anyway (I guess this is worth it if he's gonna die anyway)) or one more day (also sort of worth it maybe? But then town gets to pick another lynch and he dies tomorrow anyway)

Good point though about how unlikely it is that the scummy player we L-1'd is tpr

[Irrelephant11]

yeahhhh lynch him without counterclaim, actually

[Irrelephant11]

I'm curious if scum plan is "hey you claim TPR but we'll go tunnel on you and make sure you're still the lynch until deadline even though you're the lynch anyway"

which is what the plan would be if any of tw/keyser/reundo(/maybe ausuka) are scum with volxen. It's not a bad plan but idk how likely it is scum thinks of it/is around to pull it off

[Irrelephant11]

bye soze <3

[Irrelephant11]

I'm actually tempted to move the lynch

Isn't this like his second game? Seems lynchbaity in retrospect

[Irrelephant11]

Not sure of the top of my head who a better lynch is though

[Irrelephant11]

meh volxen is actually still one of the best lynches here I'll shut up

[Irrelephant11]

I mean the other play that gives us value is lynching a different player who is scum
But since I don't have anyone who I think is on balance that much scummier than volxen you're basically right

[Irrelephant11]

Right but scum lynch and lose a night of watcher is better than watcher lynch and keep a night of watcher
But you're right about the general strat I'm just saying if volxen is town the one good reason to maybe not lynch him is to lynch scum, regardless of claim

[Irrelephant11]

lol two hours before deadline

The realllllly fun part is that we could lynch anyone with just the people online now

But prolly it'll just be volxen

Volxen if you're town do more than claim PR please, don't just disappear

I mean, what much else can I do with the time we have left? If I had gotten to L-1 with more time before the deadline there would be more time for discussion, but we are less than 2 hours away, and I'm not even sure if most/all of the players in this game will see my roleclaim before the deadline.

At this point, the only two wagons are Sesq and I. I think it's pretty clear one of us is going to be lynched. All I can really do at this point is ask you (and the others voting for me) is why do you think I am more likely to be scum than Sesq?

I'll concede that my entrance into this game wasn't stellar; there were more important things I could have addressed aside from GNB's statement about not townreading him for the math proof. But I have genuinely tried to gamesolve. And I have shared reads; Keyser is a townread for me, and {Huntress[2.718], Sesq, and Toranga} are all scumreads for me, which I elaborated on in earlier posts. Sesq, on the other hand, has never really had any reads that he has elaborated on. He started this game by going after Keyser, yet never made a coherent case against him, only basically saying that he is "detached from the state of the game". Then when I became a wagon, he sheeped Reundo's vote onto my wagon with no explanation of his vote. He hasn't really done much of anything, except sheep vote and make cryptic statements like "I'm going to make an unexpected wagon of my own" and then do nothing. He refused to defend himself at all against his own wagon, which in my view, is one of the most anti-town things you can do. After all, if you are town the only person you can be 100% certain is not scum is yourself, so you have an obligation to at least try to defend yourself against a possible impending lynch. And unlike my situation of becoming the leading wagon literally within a few hours of the deadline, he has previously been the leading wagon for a while, and he has had ample time to respond and defend himself, and yet he hasn't. He has also yet to make any original and recent scumreads of his own, except for his initial case against Keyser at the very beginning of the game.

This is a good case on Sesq if you're town and we'll keep it in mind. Any other reads/things you think town has missed?

[Irrelephant11]

night ducko

[Irrelephant11]

I should start roleplaying as a baby elephant

[Irrelephant11]

seems to make tw v likable

[Irrelephant11]

VOTE: the worst

[Irrelephant11]

It’s been somewhat hard to try and get reads on everyone since the game started out with a lot of activity in the beginning and then quickly died way down, but here are some preliminary reads that I have so far:

Town Reads:

Keyser - I actually like that he started the game by asking about hypoclaiming in 13, it showed that right off the bat he wanted to strategize on how to potentially make things more difficult for the scumteam. This is only my second game on this site so I don’t have any firsthand experience with hypoclaiming or its effectiveness, but I think it’s not likely that a member of the scumteam would suggest this as a tactic, since it could, theoretically, allow the watcher to reveal who they got a guilty on while making it more difficult for the scumteam to identify the real watcher.

Overall, I feel like he is someone that has been genuinely trying to gamesolve and move the game forward. He hasn’t done anything that comes across as scummy to me.

Null Reads:

northsidegal – I’m not really sure what to make of the whole comma’s thing. It seems like a stretch, but maybe she will have more to say about it.

GameNBurger – As I mentioned in 125, GNB is currently a null read for me as most of his content is about the math proof, not wanting to be townread for the math proof, hypoclaiming, and lurking. I originally asked him why he felt the need to go out of his way to tell all of us not to townread him in 104, as I found this a bit suspicious and thought his response to my question might potentially be alignment indicative. However, I found his response in 108 to be fairly neutral, and not enough in and of itself to make me lean towards townreading him or scumreading him. Of course, he is being replaced so I will have to see what his replacement does, but for now this slot is still null for me.

Scum Reads:

2.718 – I really didn’t like his post-RVS opening in 91. I feel like he tried to completely misrepresent what Keyser really meant when he said that he didn’t want to talk about hypoclaiming/setup past page 1, and even after Keyser clarified this in 92 (that he wasn’t “forbidding” discussion but rather that he didn’t want to partake in it himself), 2.718 still continued to press the issue in 101.

I also didn’t like that in 91 2.718 was quick to side with Reundo in the Keyser vs Reundo argument that was going on at the time. 2.718 made the comment here that “Reundo's 46 is a little annoying but I like how he looked at everyone”. At the time, Reundo only had two posts, 46 and 50, in which he mainly focused on attacking Keyser, with only brief references made to Sesq, GameNBurger, and northsidegal in 50. 2.718’s post made it sound like Reundo was taking a balanced look at “everyone”, when in reality he was primarily just hammering down on Keyser. I feel like this was a very weak reason for 2.718 to jump in so quickly to side with Reundo.

I also find his town read of Reundo questionable in 151. He gave him a town score of 4.5, and all he really had to say was that Reundo’s post in 119 was “great”, without stating why he thought it was great or pro-town. So once again, he is defending Reundo without really providing any explanation or reasoning. And then in 182, he literally says “I see nothing that is worth my attention”, as if he is simply not interested in trying to find scum anymore.

VOTE: 2 718281828459

[Irrelephant11]

Yes
VOTE: northsidegal

[Irrelephant11]

It might be both

VOTE: the worst
VOTE: northsidegal

[Irrelephant11]

I'm trolling a little but it's my starting point for the day
Who are you most interested in post-flip?

pedit: that answer that

[Irrelephant11]

Feeling pretty good about town!Sesq given they were competing wagons. But I still want lots more from Sesq

[Irrelephant11]

Feeling pretty good about town!Sesq given they were competing wagons. But I still want lots more from Sesq

why does that make Sesq town?

For the same reason you and momrangel couldn't have been scum together in Presidents
I do think it's somewhat good logic. Scum usually has some influence over wagons, meaning it's less likely that the two major D1 wagons were both scum. It's not a hard reason, but it makes Sesq +rand town (in addition to Keyser's reasons for townreading the slot yesterday)

[Irrelephant11]

@Irrelephant - can you share some more thoughts on my town meta (everyone needs another top up again)

how did you KNOW I was doing this already?

Guyssss when you think you've caught obv!scum!Soze... say hello to town Keyser.

I guess he had some weird interactions with volxen? But mostly from volxen's side, and those still read to me as "well this guy's obviously town so it's safe to call him town"

But I don't see what the problem is. Like, do you still think Keyser's town?

yeah tbh he's just pushing odd angles

qft

Nauci replaces Sesq, effective immediately.

NAUCI HI

Oh man I'm kinda bummed I didn't roll scum w/ tw and/or irrelephant

ikr

I wonder if you and tw plan this post when you roll scum with tw
nah, too tinfoil-y. Nauci is prolly safe, guys! just a gut

THIS DOESNT LOOK LIKE TOWN NAUCI

lol

VOTE: Irrelephant11 on principle/policy. Personal policy. (´･ω･`)

lollllllllll

{Irrelephant, The worst, Keyser}
{toranaga, nauci}
{Ausuka, NSG}
{dunnstral, Reundo}


right now Im not very confident on the reads themselves, because I haven't had ISO dive time yet.
Basically this is just the strength of my reads, so the top bracket is my strongest town reads(but not, like, confirmed town, or "IMO never ever flips scum town")
second is town reads, but could sort of go either way
Ausuka and NSG are basically null
And dunn and Reundo are both small scum reads, but not very confident in them

These are the reads I want, but not the reads I deserve
which is my trolly way of saying I largely agree with this readslist but feel like it's too obvious/easy to be correct (or it's mostly "correct" but Eragon is scum?)

I see that NSG is afk or VLA or somesuch

No time to read the game yet but I have her ISO a skim and this is town NSG by a continent or so

ugh fine
UNVOTE:
Way to ruin the fun guys, every time I place a bad vote for a reaction from that player someone else intercepts

VOTE: Dunnstral
this one is srs

[Irrelephant11]

Anyone around?

[Irrelephant11]

I would love more info on how you decided to cross names out

[Irrelephant11]

I'm curious if scum plan is "hey you claim TPR but we'll go tunnel on you and make sure you're still the lynch until deadline even though you're the lynch anyway"

which is what the plan would be if any of tw/keyser/reundo(/maybe ausuka) are scum with volxen. It's not a bad plan but idk how likely it is scum thinks of it/is around to pull it off

this was affecting my thinking still but then I checked and scum don't have daychat (yeah yeah "townslip" "no, fake townslip" it's not a slip it's just the truth) so there was likely never an actual plan.
short version is I was townreading tw mostly for his tunnel on volxen even post-claim but that doesn't really work anymore because now it looks like unplanned bussing
Also Keyser encouraged a cc at one point which is bad but I also wasn't sure for a minute if it would be bad so I think I forgive him for it?

:ok_hand:
red flip d1 feels good man

drunk ducky gonna slep now gngn

I think this is actually TMI, because he was already like “red flip Day 1 feels good”

I mean, town never KNOWS that the person is scum unless a TI has a guilty, but TW acted like he KNEW volxen was scum, not HOPING that volxen was scum and not actually watcher.

\
I also thought it was a little TMI

I don't think volxen would cram both of his scumbuddies in there for no reason, I don't think GNB was in there for no reason, and honestly I think you might be getting carried away with this idea?

I don't think it's impossible for TW to say that as town at all? He could just be acting confident. Honestly I kind of townread duckling's approach to volxen d1.

It's TW's PARTNER

replacing out

i dont like mafia

aww you poor thing

I think this is town, guys.

Don't understand this

in before "HE IS TW'S PARTNUR"

It's TW'S PARTNER

in before "HE IS TW'S PARTNUR"

Nah, TW is not on my scumdar so far.

It's TW'S PARTNER

But I don't see what the problem is. Like, do you still think Keyser's town?

yeah tbh he's just pushing odd angles

for real this time??

slot was obvtown

Oh, do you mean before Keyser actually basically claimed scum?

I might have missed something in that case?

I might need my hand held through it a little Reundo, I'm not sure I see it.

Actually wow why is tw being so "wellllllllllllll I don't seeeeeeee a reason to scumread Keyser but if you insissssssssssssst then mayyyyyyyyybe I'll see it if your case is rly gud"

Why is it that I am watcher and you're all backup goons for tw

[Irrelephant11]

Let's inspect D1 for this tw/keyser tinfoil theory

[Irrelephant11]

Eh it was fun but I don't think it's both of them
Keyser's interactions with volxen are pretty scummy on re-read. I can't get over how Keyser defended Sesq, though (ultimately resulting in volxen's lynch, though not directly). Unless both of them are scum?
tw looks bad for his "yes please do scumcase Keyser and hold my hand through it" as well as TMI'ing volxen's flip, but by EOD it did seem pretty obvious we'd caught scum - I was gonna hammer, I felt sure enough - so this might be nothing. GNB was pretty scummy, though.

The reason I don't think it's both is mainly how GNB/Keyser/volxen would have had to have a LOT of scum theater when it would be much easier/townier looking to keep each other at a more average distance. Maybe their pre-game plan was to have Keyser ask about hypoclaiming, let GNB explain (incorrectly), and then move forward together with some towncred, but if it was planned it was executed really terribly, so I doubt it was planned

I don't have any strong scumreads but I have enough townreads and enough confidence that we can keep up yesterday's momentum that I'm not worried about it yet

[Irrelephant11]

lol it's true

[Irrelephant11]

I have proven to myself I can't really read tw super well?
So I'll just sheep majority of townreads for him
Prolly town

[Irrelephant11]

I feel pretty good about Eragon being town
I think it's as likely as usual that there was probably one scum on the wagon and one off
Unless Toranaga is a scum on wagon, then I think both are on wagon (because he directed attention off wagon this game day)

[Irrelephant11]

My last thought (about Toranaga) got me thinking about how the wagon on volxen happened and I went back and found this

hot take: we need to hammer Sesq who will do nothing to defend themselves or flashwagon volxen who is one rung townier and will become extremely obvious later if scum

Which, given scum don't have day chat, is VERY INTERESTING.
If volxen "will become extremely obvious later if scum", why be concerned about lynching him now? (wagon movement was still more toward sesq, who tw says here is scummier)
Unless he's trying to hint to his scum buddy that it's time to bus

Toranaga immediately followed it up with the move to vote volxen, which tw followed. Tor has tried to claim towncred for them both this game day, and has since lampshaded "inb4 partners" which, admittedly, would be bold, but would also make anyone who called them partners look a little silly

Any thoughts on this? tw has come across as feeling v towny in tone but I can't get over the combo of
-GNB's weirdness
-volxen's long, drawn out nullread of the slot
-tw's TMI of the lynch

And then Toranaga
-Has directed attention off-wagon without reasoning
-Has lots of interactions with tw that are really very friendly and (significantly) once tw joined the game Tor was much more interested in playing

Tor was also pretty scummy last game day imo (see: Keyser's case, which was mostly ignored?)

Thoughts anyone? They happen to both be independently possible scum but ISO the two of them + GNB and see if you see what I see

For now I'll start with VOTE: Toranaga

pedit: hi sorry

[Irrelephant11]

I am interested in where I tried to drive attention off wagon. that literally did not happen at all

541

[Irrelephant11]

Hi! I’m here for like two minutes

[Irrelephant11]

Ftr I townread you for jumping on every wagon
Idk what else there was in terms of case on you but I don’t have a scumread on you rn

[Irrelephant11]

Good points bye

[Irrelephant11]

nsg are you caught up yet

Nauci wyd? Why no sorting?

One more thought about tor/tw before I do some re-reading: tw!scum loves to put his vote right next to his partner as a subtle vca distancing move. If a team, they're voting exactly how I would expect. This doesn't mean they're definitely both scum, but if tw flips red I'd look first at Tor just based on this fact

[Irrelephant11]

If you said "I'm caught up" I missed it, and you just talked about not being caught up earlier, so I was curious
Is that a yes

[Irrelephant11]

Okay hi great I'm catching up what do you think of Tora rn?

[Irrelephant11]

Idk why is it?

Hi duck, what are your reads?

[Irrelephant11]

Lol Irrelephant I love that you also check for daychat every time

It feels like it should make a huge difference to use because we used it so much but most scum threads I see are kinda tumbleweeds

I laughed at this and then came back and saw it again and wondered why you're so comfortable around me and why you're not really sorting anyone

when have I directed attention off wagon though? I came in, read the wagons, thought volxen was scummier and booya it was scum

the crowd goes wild woohoo

I am interested in where I tried to drive attention off wagon. that literally did not happen at all

I see now what you think I meant - I'm not saying you tried to move attention off-wagon D1, I'm saying you started D2 by suggesting we vote someone off wagon. I think volxen was an easy (maybe even preferred) bus that any scum would have been happy to participate in. I see no reason to focus exclusively on the players who didn't vote volxen.

-Has lots of interactions with tw that are really very friendly and (significantly) once tw joined the game Tor was much more interested in playing

I like how enjoying to play with certain people is scummy to you irrelephant

It's not scummy, but it is associative. If I started D1 as scum with volxen and GNB and the game state was lurky crap, I would have posted very much like you did. Then when the game started moving and you got an active, helpful partner, it would make sense for you to get more active. I see as I'm writing this how your activity might? be more tied to the game state than to the arrival of the duck, but while looking at the pair of you it stood out to me that your "welcome tw!!" post was the beginning of your srs playng

instead of trying to lynch the people who dunked on scum yesterday, just look at other slots. just today. it's day 2. look at ausuka's vote movement, it's scummy. I have no reason to townread anything she said today either. NSG is probably scum as well.

Yeah this makes no sense, Ausuka also helped dunk on scum. Why does her vote get to be scummy but yours doesn't? I also don't think her vote movement is "opportunistic scum being opportunistic" because flip/flopping readily onto any available wagon isn't as "opportunistic" when the first flip and the last flop were on a partner.
Though I take the point from Eragon earlier this page about Ausuka maybe trying to make room for flip/flopping again post-claim.

Any thoughts on this? tw has come across as feeling v towny in tone but I can't get over the combo of
-GNB's weirdness
-volxen's long, drawn out nullread of the slot
-tw's TMI of the lynch

playstyle
either a half assed read from scum or absolutely abysmal theatre
i was intoxicated and literally laughed at loud at how bad the watcher claim was, do you disagree? xD

pedit: ya tora and i are scumbuddies irl

-maybe
-this doesn't actually make me see it as less associative - I think volxen is pretty new to mafia? So "absolutely abysmal theatre", while rude, is kinda what I think I'd expect

pedit: if you're caught up, Isurely you've seen Keyser and me casing Tora?

[Irrelephant11]

-maybe
-this doesn't actually make me see it as less associative - I think volxen is pretty new to mafia? So "absolutely abysmal theatre", while rude, is kinda what I think I'd expect
-fair

ebwop

[Irrelephant11]

Spoiler: Mod-edited to spoiler a long string of quotes

Lol Irrelephant I love that you also check for daychat every time

It feels like it should make a huge difference to use because we used it so much but most scum threads I see are kinda tumbleweeds

when have I directed attention off wagon though? I came in, read the wagons, thought volxen was scummier and booya it was scum

the crowd goes wild woohoo

I am interested in where I tried to drive attention off wagon. that literally did not happen at all

-Has lots of interactions with tw that are really very friendly and (significantly) once tw joined the game Tor was much more interested in playing

I like how enjoying to play with certain people is scummy to you irrelephant

instead of trying to lynch the people who dunked on scum yesterday, just look at other slots. just today. it's day 2. look at ausuka's vote movement, it's scummy. I have no reason to townread anything she said today either. NSG is probably scum as well.

Any thoughts on this? tw has come across as feeling v towny in tone but I can't get over the combo of
-GNB's weirdness
-volxen's long, drawn out nullread of the slot
-tw's TMI of the lynch

playstyle
either a half assed read from scum or absolutely abysmal theatre
i was intoxicated and literally laughed at loud at how bad the watcher claim was, do you disagree? xD

pedit: ya tora and i are scumbuddies irl

instead of trying to lynch the people who dunked on scum yesterday, just look at other slots. just today. it's day 2. look at ausuka's vote movement, it's scummy. I have no reason to townread anything she said today either. NSG is probably scum as well.

In follow up of Irrelephant’s points against you:
You say we shouldn’t look at people who “dunked on scum” / pushed and voted Volxen D1, but you are looking at Volxen’s wagon yourself (Ausuka). I just wish you’d been on Volxen’s wagon earlier: instead you name-dropped Volxen early saying you would lynch them but did not vote for a long part of D1. Then when the wagon looked inevitable then you decided to vote / post your belated case. That is what is grating in the back of my head. I asked you before, give me a grade for “believability” for the scum narrative I am presenting. You are not acknowledging but deflecting. You keep laughing off cases on you with humour, gifs, talking about the worst, or throwing out a town read on the person analysing your behaviour. I feel the Volxen wagon was too damn enticing for at least one scum not to bus.

Nauci says NSG is the townie who towned in townville - are you going to challenge Nauci in regard this read?

instead of trying to lynch the people who dunked on scum yesterday, just look at other slots. just today. it's day 2. look at ausuka's vote movement, it's scummy. I have no reason to townread anything she said today either. NSG is probably scum as well.

In follow up of Irrelephant’s points against you:
You say we shouldn’t look at people who “dunked on scum” / pushed and voted Volxen D1, but you are looking at Volxen’s wagon yourself (Ausuka). I just wish you’d been on Volxen’s wagon earlier: instead you name-dropped Volxen early saying you would lynch them but did not vote for a long part of D1. Then when the wagon looked inevitable then you decided to vote / post your belated case. That is what is grating in the back of my head. I asked you before, give me a grade for “believability” for the scum narrative I am presenting. You are not acknowledging but deflecting. You keep laughing off cases on you with humour, gifs, talking about the worst, or throwing out a town read on the person analysing your behaviour. I feel the Volxen wagon was too damn enticing for at least one scum not to bus.

Nauci says NSG is the townie who towned in townville - are you going to challenge Nauci in regard this read?

I didn't read NSG's posts to any depth so yeah nancy can probably read her much better than I can

wrt my vote coming too late on volxen, it wasn't actually late and it wasn't an inevitable wagon. it was the moment we went from lynching sesq to me pushing the wagon somewhere else. yes I probably only convinced the worst to go there, but that caused the chain reaction that lead to volxen's lynch. I'll tell you to look at the momentum shift as soon as I voted there. the worst asked a question: who are we lynching, the guy who is the lead wagon or the townier guy who will look obvious later? I then ISO'd both and decided to go volxen. the momentum went from us lynching sesq to lynching volxen so yeah I dunked. I explained exactly why volxen was a wolf too. I wasn't the only or the first one to do it, but it was there.

but if you wanna lynch me mate, go ahead. I'm not really interested in winning these days anyway so I'm not gonna be typing a bunch of stuff just to defend myself. I can explain anything you find odd or whatever, but yeah none of your points are any good so I get to laugh my way to the mislynch.

"o now he is being a condescending dick! it's scummy!!"

VOTE: volxen

VOTE: sesq

Probably a decent vote tbh my tr on them kind of feels like it was probably an inaccurate shitread.

VOTE: volxen
i heard this is the new cool wagon to be on.

Does anyone know scum-Ausuka that much?


Would she be this sloppy with jumping from one wagon to the other without covering her steps with more detailed supporting explanations?

Elsewhere in her ISO, she has been very tidy: Ausuka has been meticulous presenting her revised global reads (frequently). But why does scum-Ausuka think she can freely hop on and off the Volxen/Sesq wagons without anyone calling her up on it on D2?

sometimes what looks like scum being opportunistic is scum being opportunistic

VOTE: volxen

Hi duckling.

VOTE: sesq

Probably a decent vote tbh my tr on them kind of feels like it was probably an inaccurate shitread.

Joining around 4th/5th on both wagons without any explanation

here

sheep this god of mafia

dunn you're so good with this ausuka push

the fuck was I thinking misreading you as a wolf

Votecount 1.12

Sesq (5) - Dunnstral 117, northsidegal 307, the worst 308, volxen 330, Ausuka 345
volxen (3) - Reundo 220, Sesq 222, Keyser Söze 224
Toranaga (1) - Irrelephant 255
Huntress (1) - Kop 194

Not voting: Toranaga 110, Huntress 151

The deadline for Day 1 is 1:52 pm CT on Tuesday, September 4, in (expired on 2018-09-04 14:51:53).

Mod notes

- Just to be clear, post 346 does not count as an unvote, due to broken formatting.

this is the vc right before I vote volxen btw

and notice where the fuck ausuka is, on sesq. and then dunn points at her late entering wagons without giving any explanation, I move the 4th to volxen when I could join ausuka in voting sesq, yes?

now figure out which one is scum brother

momentum was 100% sesq, right?

it went irrelephant votes me (?), then NSG, TW, volxen and ausuka all vote sesq

then obvioustown!tor, what does he do? he reads the wagon and points at the wolf volxen instead

do proper VCA man come on. titus would be pretty sad at how you're reading this as me being "too late" on volxen lmao.

like, I'm teaching you here, I'm not doing this to defend myself even

just doing it to show what things you're supposed to be looking at

you're scumreading me for nothing that makes anyone scum and then for wrong VCA that doesn't work. I promise you you're not catching wolves with the type of logic you're presenting here.

you know what

sure let's gamble

if ausuka flips green kill me tomorrow

I bet it doesn't

VOTE: Ausuka

Reason: “for being sloppy scum and shamefully jumping off her partner’s wagon to push a viable counter wagon, to then jump off that wagon, and return to her partner’s wagon in a desperate attempt at towncred/bussing.”



This vote feels dirty.

No idea if this post will actually succeed

Having internet problems and even my Verizon 4G service is unstable and I'm getting insane packet loss

༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ gief intarnats pls ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

Yeah... but the Sesq case was bad... and was being trampled on at the time.
The Volxen slot was in very bad shape too.

sesq was very incoherent, I just figured that wasn't necessarily scummy and would be something he'd do as town or scum based off the way he was posting. the case against him would probably still resonate strongly I'm sure.

volxen slot was in bad shape cause he was being obv!scum but that takes a little reading into it, while sesq was flat out incoherent and you could just say "guy says a, b and c, all contradicting each other in 1 paragraph. that makes no sense and I hope it dies scum" and get away with it, you know? sesq case was alive and well when I joined volxen, otherwise we wouldn't have had 4 votes in sequence on sesq right before I voted volxen.

I think you're wanting me to be scum with this argument, would you agree?

Not gonna invest much time defending myself since I'm not enjoying this game at all. Tor doesn't do this as town, take up his offer and lynch him day 3. Make tw out his tell today, lynch him d4 if it's horrible, otherwise go Dunn I think.

it's kinda irksome that you assume I'm using a tell on you

tell me what you think about Ausuka's reads and contribution in particular, something is pinging me really really badly and I'm curious if you see it as town/scum!Ausuka

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=10402853#p10402853

read here to 111 tell me what you think :0

pedit: lmfao camaraderie is still too real

tell me what you think about Ausuka's reads and contribution in particular, something is pinging me really really badly and I'm curious if you see it as town/scum!Ausuka

in the context of?
oh not like a specific you-tell I actually need someone to read this and reality check me


northsidegal where art thou

Ok? You still need to talk about what it is you see there.

I'll let someone else do it cause it's a lot of long complicated posting that'd require too much from me lol

I just dropped by to say ausuka has literally dropped the 3 names pushing her the hardest as her top scumreads

it's OMGUSing so hard that it's probably the first time I use the term seriously

nsg is being a lil dodgy here imo
@tw & @nauci help me see town!nsg

Kinda feels like she darned her darnedest town meta D1 and is coasting

[Irrelephant11]

nooooo I hate when I do that

[Irrelephant11]

No I was working on a long post full of quotes
And in another tab I wrote a quick reply
I didn't think the quotes were going to show up in the quick reply

[Irrelephant11]

@Mod: Any chance you can spoiler all those quotes in 818? Just to make this page more readable

[Irrelephant11]

Thanks!

instead of trying to lynch the people who dunked on scum yesterday, just look at other slots. just today. it's day 2. look at ausuka's vote movement, it's scummy. I have no reason to townread anything she said today either. NSG is probably scum as well.

In follow up of Irrelephant’s points against you:
You say we shouldn’t look at people who “dunked on scum” / pushed and voted Volxen D1, but you are looking at Volxen’s wagon yourself (Ausuka). I just wish you’d been on Volxen’s wagon earlier: instead you name-dropped Volxen early saying you would lynch them but did not vote for a long part of D1. Then when the wagon looked inevitable then you decided to vote / post your belated case. That is what is grating in the back of my head. I asked you before, give me a grade for “believability” for the scum narrative I am presenting. You are not acknowledging but deflecting. You keep laughing off cases on you with humour, gifs, talking about the worst, or throwing out a town read on the person analysing your behaviour. I feel the Volxen wagon was too damn enticing for at least one scum not to bus.

Nauci says NSG is the townie who towned in townville - are you going to challenge Nauci in regard this read?

@nsg, here's some thoughts on Tora's game that you seem to have ignored?

instead of trying to lynch the people who dunked on scum yesterday, just look at other slots. just today. it's day 2. look at ausuka's vote movement, it's scummy. I have no reason to townread anything she said today either. NSG is probably scum as well.

In follow up of Irrelephant’s points against you:
You say we shouldn’t look at people who “dunked on scum” / pushed and voted Volxen D1, but you are looking at Volxen’s wagon yourself (Ausuka). I just wish you’d been on Volxen’s wagon earlier: instead you name-dropped Volxen early saying you would lynch them but did not vote for a long part of D1. Then when the wagon looked inevitable then you decided to vote / post your belated case. That is what is grating in the back of my head. I asked you before, give me a grade for “believability” for the scum narrative I am presenting. You are not acknowledging but deflecting. You keep laughing off cases on you with humour, gifs, talking about the worst, or throwing out a town read on the person analysing your behaviour. I feel the Volxen wagon was too damn enticing for at least one scum not to bus.

Nauci says NSG is the townie who towned in townville - are you going to challenge Nauci in regard this read?

I didn't read NSG's posts to any depth so yeah nancy can probably read her much better than I can

wrt my vote coming too late on volxen, it wasn't actually late and it wasn't an inevitable wagon. it was the moment we went from lynching sesq to me pushing the wagon somewhere else. yes I probably only convinced the worst to go there, but that caused the chain reaction that lead to volxen's lynch. I'll tell you to look at the momentum shift as soon as I voted there. the worst asked a question: who are we lynching, the guy who is the lead wagon or the townier guy who will look obvious later? I then ISO'd both and decided to go volxen. the momentum went from us lynching sesq to lynching volxen so yeah I dunked. I explained exactly why volxen was a wolf too. I wasn't the only or the first one to do it, but it was there.

but if you wanna lynch me mate, go ahead. I'm not really interested in winning these days anyway so I'm not gonna be typing a bunch of stuff just to defend myself. I can explain anything you find odd or whatever, but yeah none of your points are any good so I get to laugh my way to the mislynch.

"o now he is being a condescending dick! it's scummy!!"

Okay so actually for some reason on like my fifth re-read of the volzen flashwagon suddenly Tora looks really towny???
I'm not sure what I was misreading but he definitely does deserve some credit for volxen being the lynch, much like reundo does
the worst also, but to a lesser extent.
I think I may have contributed to unnecessary town infighting.
Let's see what happens to my reads when I make Toranaga and the worst town

VOTE: volxen

VOTE: sesq

Probably a decent vote tbh my tr on them kind of feels like it was probably an inaccurate shitread.

VOTE: volxen
i heard this is the new cool wagon to be on.

Does anyone know scum-Ausuka that much?


Would she be this sloppy with jumping from one wagon to the other without covering her steps with more detailed supporting explanations?

Elsewhere in her ISO, she has been very tidy: Ausuka has been meticulous presenting her revised global reads (frequently). But why does scum-Ausuka think she can freely hop on and off the Volxen/Sesq wagons without anyone calling her up on it on D2?

sometimes what looks like scum being opportunistic is scum being opportunistic

Tora if you're town I think you are wrong on Ausuka being scum. Her votes were helpful and followed the majority (useful, as deadline was approaching. She also (if scum) gave up a viable counterwagon she could have just /not left/ to join the scum flashwagon.

VOTE: volxen

Hi duckling.

VOTE: sesq

Probably a decent vote tbh my tr on them kind of feels like it was probably an inaccurate shitread.

Joining around 4th/5th on both wagons without any explanation

here

sheep this god of mafia

dunn you're so good with this ausuka push

the fuck was I thinking misreading you as a wolf

I don't like this Dunn interaction though like wtf
Dunn doesn't deserve any towncred from you for this, it's an incredible easy "look, she votes, is scum" lame read that comes either from scum or lazytown

Spoiler:

Votecount 1.12

Sesq (5) - Dunnstral 117, northsidegal 307, the worst 308, volxen 330, Ausuka 345
volxen (3) - Reundo 220, Sesq 222, Keyser Söze 224
Toranaga (1) - Irrelephant 255
Huntress (1) - Kop 194

Not voting: Toranaga 110, Huntress 151

The deadline for Day 1 is 1:52 pm CT on Tuesday, September 4, in (expired on 2018-09-04 14:51:53).

Mod notes

- Just to be clear, post 346 does not count as an unvote, due to broken formatting.

this is the vc right before I vote volxen btw

and notice where the fuck ausuka is, on sesq. and then dunn points at her late entering wagons without giving any explanation, I move the 4th to volxen when I could join ausuka in voting sesq, yes?

now figure out which one is scum brother

Why must one be scum? If you start D2 by stating you think scum is off wagon, why does one of you/Ausuka have to be scum?

like, I'm teaching you here, I'm not doing this to defend myself even

just doing it to show what things you're supposed to be looking at

you're scumreading me for nothing that makes anyone scum and then for wrong VCA that doesn't work. I promise you you're not catching wolves with the type of logic you're presenting here.

wow it's like you want to be scumread tho

you know what

sure let's gamble

if ausuka flips green kill me tomorrow

I bet it doesn't

this is bad

VOTE: Ausuka

Reason: “for being sloppy scum and shamefully jumping off her partner’s wagon to push a viable counter wagon, to then jump off that wagon, and return to her partner’s wagon in a desperate attempt at towncred/bussing.”



This vote feels dirty.

as is this (though I still think Keyser is town)

No idea if this post will actually succeed

Having internet problems and even my Verizon 4G service is unstable and I'm getting insane packet loss

༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ gief intarnats pls ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ

Nauci temporarily off the hook but only temporarily

[Irrelephant11]

Yeah... but the Sesq case was bad... and was being trampled on at the time.
The Volxen slot was in very bad shape too.

sesq was very incoherent, I just figured that wasn't necessarily scummy and would be something he'd do as town or scum based off the way he was posting. the case against him would probably still resonate strongly I'm sure.

volxen slot was in bad shape cause he was being obv!scum but that takes a little reading into it, while sesq was flat out incoherent and you could just say "guy says a, b and c, all contradicting each other in 1 paragraph. that makes no sense and I hope it dies scum" and get away with it, you know? sesq case was alive and well when I joined volxen, otherwise we wouldn't have had 4 votes in sequence on sesq right before I voted volxen.

I think you're wanting me to be scum with this argument, would you agree?

@the worst or @anyone townreading toranaga rn, does his playstyle always include these scummy statements? I'll maybe meta later

Spoiler: a conversation between Ausuka & the worst

Not gonna invest much time defending myself since I'm not enjoying this game at all. Tor doesn't do this as town, take up his offer and lynch him day 3. Make tw out his tell today, lynch him d4 if it's horrible, otherwise go Dunn I think.

it's kinda irksome that you assume I'm using a tell on you

tell me what you think about Ausuka's reads and contribution in particular, something is pinging me really really badly and I'm curious if you see it as town/scum!Ausuka

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=10402853#p10402853

read here to 111 tell me what you think :0

pedit: lmfao camaraderie is still too real

tell me what you think about Ausuka's reads and contribution in particular, something is pinging me really really badly and I'm curious if you see it as town/scum!Ausuka

in the context of?
oh not like a specific you-tell I actually need someone to read this and reality check me


northsidegal where art thou

Ok? You still need to talk about what it is you see there.

I'll let someone else do it cause it's a lot of long complicated posting that'd require too much from me lol

I just dropped by to say ausuka has literally dropped the 3 names pushing her the hardest as her top scumreads

it's OMGUSing so hard that it's probably the first time I use the term seriously

I am starting to townread tone from Tora. He seems a little aggressive/posturing/prideful and it's hard to see all of that coming from scum unless he's got a strong scum game
I guess Ausuka could be scum? But I still don't understand why you're so focused on her when you thought scum probably wasn't bussing at the start of the day (I don't remember seeing you have a progression on this thought)

[Irrelephant11]

VOTE: Dunnstral

[Irrelephant11]

I re-examined how the sesq wagon came about in response to the first volxen wagon

New reads:

Eragon
Reundo
Keyser Söze
Ausuka
Toranaga
Nauci
the worst
northsidegal
Dunnstral

[Irrelephant11]

I'm certainly trying

[Irrelephant11]

I'm familiar with nsg's scum meta but I think she was only outside of it D1
And even then, most of the time she pushed in any given direction, she dropped it before it got anywhere
pretty weird ISO imo
plus some circumstantial stuff

I'll go read the Reundo thing I guess - wanna give me something to look for?

tw did I ask you for reads already? I'm not clear where you're at

[Irrelephant11]

Btw if anyone is wondering why Eragon is so high in my readslist this moment is a big part of it

Votecount 1.09

volxen (5) - Reundo 220, Irrelephant11 221, Sesq 222, Keyser Söze 224, Ausuka 239
2 718281828459 (2) - Kop 194, volxen 237
Dunnstral (1) - northsidegal 170
Sesq (1) - Dunnstral 117

Not voting: [GameNBurger], Toranaga 110, 2 718281828459 151

The deadline for Day 1 is 1:52 pm CT on Tuesday, September 4, in (expired on 2018-09-04 14:51:53).

Mod notes

- If anyone else would like to try finding a replacement for GameNBurger's slot, I'd really appreciate it.

[Irrelephant11]

I mean there are better reasons but you're right
@tora about eragon

tora talk about nsg

[Irrelephant11]

Oh also both of you: sesq/nauci read??

[Irrelephant11]

Yeagree

Her most insightful moment was when she shifted the wagon off volxen onto sesq

[Irrelephant11]

oops that was about nsg

[Irrelephant11]

I mean this has been excrutiatingly boring game to play so I understand dunn

let's just give someone rope, idc who

let's move on pls

I'm not as bored as you, and would like to give opportunity to nsg/nauci/dunnstral slots to talk more
feel free to vote nsg or dunnstral to make that happen tho (nauci having said it's a wifi thing)

pedit: interesting question
pedit: funnn answer
I have thought for sometime that they're probably aligned. I forget why

[Irrelephant11]

Because NSG is hard townreading you and one of the following is true:
-She's town and probably correct
-She's scum and correct
-You're both scum <--- in this situation, I have no useful reads on any players, so I'm assuming it's not this

oh yeah this is why

[Irrelephant11]

@ Reundo/Nauci/Eragon/the worst

You should put your votes on one of the two leading wagons or NSG
Especially Eragon/the worst should

[Irrelephant11]

scum don't really look uncomfortable.

I mean you look uncomfortable, js

[Irrelephant11]

honestly I just look for beautifully formatted posts as a towntell for Nauci. like if she posted the Wikipedia page for character mask in beautiful bbcode formatting I'd treat it as a cop clear

love this

tw let's solve the game I recently decided I should be townreading you a lot so who's the team

[Irrelephant11]

because your push on volxen gets townier each time I look at it and also it's worth a shot
Also because [redacted], but mainly because it's worth a shot

[Irrelephant11]

mmmm idk if Nauci belongs in your town core
Also I'll be shocked if keyser flips scum but tbh that's nothing new. still don't want his flip this game day I don't think

[Irrelephant11]

yeah the omgus thing was bad but I'm also not seeing town!Nauci so the omgus thing might just be incidental
Like tw is right that she gets way more hype about sorting when town. For now it's only her bad internet connection that makes me not scumread her

[Irrelephant11]

this playerlist is funny

[Irrelephant11]

He just recently voted Ausuka at my urging

[Irrelephant11]

yeah I'm actually pretty interested in a Nauci flip

[Irrelephant11]

??
I have no answer atm. Why do you ask?

[Irrelephant11]

hey dunnstral please please post five more times before leaving
each with substantial meaning

it would be v towny of you and also helpful

[Irrelephant11]

No longer interested in a Nauci flip (@Nauci the reason I ever was was mostly vca, I think your slot was in the next most interesting position last game day and until recently your posting wasn't enough for me to townread you)

(and something about rubs me the wrong way)

Ooh I did feel this too

-418 I extremely want to see Irrelephant’s explanation for this one

??

It makes no sense to me why keyser wouldn’t call him out on his obsession or, at the very least, blatant attempts to pocket, OR the issues with his posting that town keyser 100% would have called out based on my experience with him. If this was town keyser I seriously couldn’t fathom in the slightest how he doesn’t call out the gross pocketing

This is a reaaaaally good point actually

Irrelephant are you tired of me joining your games and putting you through all this yet

Not yet but getting there

this is townrrelephant–final answer

it's a good answer

are you happy now duckyI think I dropped like 3k words just for the rough and terse catch up notes

idk about duck but I am

great let's lynch Dunnstral now

@Reundo you seem to be good at sorting come vote dunnstral or tell me another lynch that would be better and why

[Irrelephant11]

ftr the only way nauci is scum here is if it's with ausuka I think

Btw That's L-1

[Irrelephant11]

So like here's where I'm at. I think volxen was pretty straightforwardly scum, and I think his associations should be leading our lynch.

I'm gonna go double check what those were again because I forget

[Irrelephant11]

lol not what I meant
I don't mean "he was really bad at playing scum" which is sorta true but you live and learn, whatever
I mean "the way he played scum was pretty textbook and I think his associations are going to be more helpful than the average flipped scum, so we don't need to get weird/paranoid with the lynch"

[Irrelephant11]

volxen associations:
14 - RVS votes GNB[tw]
104 - He parrots NSG's (without mentioning nsg) "why say not to townread yourself?" case on GNB[tw]
123 - He shades Sesq[Nauci] for poorly scumcasing Keyser
125 - He continues to argue with GNB[tw] and answers Ausuka's question about GNB[tw]
148 - Asks 2.718[Huntress] if he's still scumreading Keyser
167 - Answers Toranaga's question about GNB[tw] ("I'm nullreading him")
237 - He townreads Keyser for weak reasons; nullreads nsg in few words; nullreads GNB[tw] in very many words; scumreads 2.718[Huntress] with his most in-depth thought processes yet. His reasons for the scumread are:
> Misrepping Keyser
> Siding with Reundo against Keyser
> Townreading Reundo with poor reasoning
254 - Tries to direct attention off his slot by pointing at lurkers. Namely: 2.718[Huntress], Toranaga, and Sesq. Notably, part of his scumread of Tor is that Tor thinks scum is in 2.718[Huntress]/volxen/sesq. I think this is somewhat clearing for Tor (in addition to the towncred he does actually deserve for the volxen lynch) because I don't think their scum play here was to name each other in their lynchbait lists.
280 - Reiterates his scumreads from his previous posts. Also says Reundo/Keyser is either t/t or s/t (Keyser being town either way)
288 - says hi to the worst (not really indicative, I'm just being thorough)
321 - He answers nsg's question about knowing the worst ("yes")
324 & 326 - continues to talk about nsg, this time about his experience with mafia and mafiascum.
330 - Becomes the fourth vote on sesq
352 - Welcomes Huntress
354 - Helps sesq try to unvote
383 - Welcomes Eragon
446 - Claims watcher in response to me
484 - Tries to shift wagon movement back to sesq in response to me
508 - Shades Reundo for attacking Keyser one more time after his lynch is inevitable

[Irrelephant11]

Takeaways

In the green: Nauci is almost certainly town, as I think volxen was being survivalistic at the end there by trying to get sesq to unvote correctly and move wagons back to sesq

Toranaga is almost certainly town or is scum who bussed v impressively. He and volxen scumcased each other like they really wanted one another dead

I guess it's more likely nsg is town here for the way their interactions were always at a sort of diagonal angle? If that makes sense? Nothing to either suggest they're buddies or not aligned, with a normal amount of interaction. An ideal distance for scum buddies but I don't think it's likely that volxen was at that sort of ideal distance with his scum buddies

Reundo looks good as a player volxen seemed to think could be an easier mislynch. This one is a little weaker, but overall it just doesn't feel like scum theater

Hmmm: Volxen never has any interaction from his side with the Kop[Eragon] slot or Dunnstral, except to welcome Eragon to the game. I think this is mostly meaningless for Eragon, less certain on what it means for Dunnstral, who actively tried to shift people off the volxen wagon early on.

Yikes:
Ausuka and volxen don't have any meaningful interaction from volxen's ISO. Instead, Ausuka lobs him an easy question, he answers, and then he ignores her.

Fine, I'll admit that Keyser can be scum here. I think it's very likely that either Keyser or the worst are scum here, actually (even though I've said I don't think they're partners - which idk if I'm right about)

Thoughts? UNVOTE:

[Irrelephant11]

Yeah that's the strongest thing I'm pulling from it too actually

I guess nsg could be the lynch - like volxen's ISO doesn't rule it out and the way nsg made up BS to push onto sesq instead of volxen is scummy

I wonder if nsg and dunnstral would both be scum in that scenario? Where Dunnstral says the volzen wagon is bad and votes sesq and nsg follows with "reasoning"

[Irrelephant11]

I mean I would love if nsg would come refute the nsg case

[Irrelephant11]

lol same but I would feel more comfortable townreading nsg for her own play rather than for yours

but I digress


I think my preferred lynchpool is dunnstral/tw/ausuka and if everyone I townread wanted keyser or nsg I'd compromise there

[Irrelephant11]

mm swap keyser and the worst, the evidence mounting on keyser from many slots is a lot
Sorry keyser I'm enjoying your presence but I think you have high scum equity

[Irrelephant11]

I could be wrong on eragon, maybe I should ISO him next?

Can you do Dunnstral post by post first?

[Irrelephant11]

yeah what
you sure are those reads are jank

[Irrelephant11]

P.S. The Eragon slot is like hard gliding right under everyone's radar and that should bother all of y'all a lot

this is fair and accurate news

[Irrelephant11]

VOTE: Dunnstral

from here on out just voting whoever I'm supposed to vote.

if anyone sees me signing up for a Mafia game ever again please spam my inbox reminding me not to

If I've insulted you personally I'm genuinely sorry! I hate when it starts to feel personal.
I wish you would go more in depth on your reads, though, because atm I don't understand them

[Irrelephant11]

mm swap keyser and the worst, the evidence mounting on keyser from many slots is a lot
Sorry keyser I'm enjoying your presence but I think you have high scum equity

Volxen knew I was town and formed his limited pushes around that.
Kop has a 100% read accuracy read on me.
You know I am town really and shouldnt be lynched today.
My D1 reads were solid.
Do you think I am underperforming as town?

-A reasonable way to look at it, but it is pretty weird how you didn't call out him trying to pocket you if that was the case
-Okay, sure, I'll give this a tiny bit of weight
-I definitely don't prefer your lynch but if my townreads push you I'm not sure I want to get in the way anymore (pretend I wrote this in a less scummy-sounding way)
-meaningless, as scum can be however right/wrong with their reads as they want
-No, so I'll give this some weight too

g2g bye

[Irrelephant11]

VOTE: Keyser Soze

[Irrelephant11]

the worst, hop on

[Irrelephant11]

yeah I am
I don't think the things you've listed as a wifom towncase add up to town
he didn't know volxen would be the flip when he started to push against that wagon
he was probably hoping to (and almost succeeded) make sesq the lynch instead

but who's your vote now? nsg? hmmm

[Irrelephant11]

mmkay

what's your read on tw?

[Irrelephant11]

I do townread Keyser I was hoping my vote would make things more interesting than it did

[Irrelephant11]

well, "townread" being too strong a word here actually
I don't prefer him as my #1 lynch option

Have you actually responded to anyone's Keyser cases? There's some goodp oints

[Irrelephant11]

Spoiler: My Case On Keyser Söze

@Sesq, why not just share with us your reasons for scumreading Keyser? You started the game by taking a slight jab at him in 16, and then in 80 you said that Keyser is “entirely detached from the state of the game ... but not in a scum way”.

@2.718, are you still scumreading Keyser?

Keyser - I actually like that he started the game by asking about hypoclaiming in 13, it showed that right off the bat he wanted to strategize on how to potentially make things more difficult for the scumteam. This is only my second game on this site so I don’t have any firsthand experience with hypoclaiming or its effectiveness, but I think it’s not likely that a member of the scumteam would suggest this as a tactic, since it could, theoretically, allow the watcher to reveal who they got a guilty on while making it more difficult for the scumteam to identify the real watcher.

Scum Reads:

2.718 – I really didn’t like his post-RVS opening in 91. I feel like he tried to completely misrepresent what Keyser really meant when he said that he didn’t want to talk about hypoclaiming/setup past page 1, and even after Keyser clarified this in 92 (that he wasn’t “forbidding” discussion but rather that he didn’t want to partake in it himself), 2.718 still continued to press the issue in 101.

I also didn’t like that in 91 2.718 was quick to side with Reundo in the Keyser vs Reundo argument that was going on at the time. 2.718 made the comment here that “Reundo's 46 is a little annoying but I like how he looked at everyone”. At the time, Reundo only had two posts, 46 and 50, in which he mainly focused on attacking Keyser, with only brief references made to Sesq, GameNBurger, and northsidegal in 50. 2.718’s post made it sound like Reundo was taking a balanced look at “everyone”, when in reality he was primarily just hammering down on Keyser. I feel like this was a very weak reason for 2.718 to jump in so quickly to side with Reundo.

@Volxen in your previous readslist why did you include more nullreads than scum or town reads?

Reundo is someone that I would like to get a read on, but I’ve been having a very difficult time trying to read him. I REALLY did NOT like the way he started this game in 46. But I’m not sure if his interactions (and arguments) with Keyser are SvT or TvT (Keyser is still a townread for me). The last time I went through his ISO and reviewed his interactions with Keyser, I ended up just getting really frustrated because I couldn’t get a read on him one way or another. I’m going to review Reundo’s content again, and hopefully I will catch something that I may have missed the first time around.

t like his entrance to the game and the way he attacked Keyser right off the bat, and I think the way he is playing this game is very opportunistic.

First point I was going to make was how volxen was literally obsessed with Keyser as the above quotes show. Even in his scum-read of 2.178 he couldn't help bringing up Keyser and giving yet another HOT TAKE on the whole me verses Keyser debate. This kind of focus is completely unnatural and forced, which could mean one of two things: A)That he was afraid of spewing anyone as town so he thought the best bet was to spew Keyser!town (plausible, but eh) OR B)That he was trying to make his scum-buddy seem as towny as possible, even when it goes way overboard, which is actually more unlikely than A, but becomes increasingly more likely when you take into account that Keyser basically blatantly distanced himself from volxen.

@Sesq, why not just share with us your reasons for scumreading Keyser? You started the game by taking a slight jab at him in 16, and then in 80 you said that Keyser is “entirely detached from the state of the game ... but not in a scum way”. You also said in that post that you changed your mind about him, which would suggest you no longer found him scummy, but you kept your vote on him anyways. And then in 118 you are apparently back to scumreading him. So why not just explain why you scumread him – is there really anything useful gained by putting it out there that you scumread him, but then refuse to elaborate any further? And what exactly did you mean when you said that he is “detached” from the state of the game, but in a way that is not indicative of him being scum? Trying to understand your motivations here.

This is a really bad entrance, especially according to Keyser's supposed method of scum-hunting: it was a post about a topic that was well over and done with (which he called out me for), a topic that likely wasn't going to lead to any AI responses at all (something that he later called out Dunn for). There was little reason why Keyser WOULDN'T call out volxen for this type of post, except, of course, if they were scum-buddies, which was the first big ping for a volxen/Keyser pairing, which was why I didn't really have any problem switching my vote over to volxen.

I'm not going to quote it here because it's a little long, but when Keyser responded to Ausuka's readslist he pretty much responded to all of her reads except for volxen and GameNBurger (though tbh he did talk about GameNBurger just a bit earlier), which was again blatant distancing between him and volxen.

I can see / clearly read Volxen’s posts, but don’t feel like they’ve opened up yet (free flowing posting). Feels too laboured/restricted at the moment.

This read of volxen makes no sense, and almost sounds like a town-read (?) which was why it was a little weird when he jumped onto volxen's wagon later in the day.

@volxen

Are you saying that those three players are scummy for contributing to the apathy/lurking that festers in this game? Or are you just pissed off for being s/read; being our first wagon?

It would make sense to at least try to look like he was pushing the volxen wagon. Not scummy in and of itself, but it implies he scum-reads volxen a little, which is a bit important later on.

I’ll vote Sesq if that’s the lynch

Hey Irrelephant, I'm gonna go the WIFOM route sorry: do you think scum-Sesq would have a bit more survival/verve/urgency in them?

This is literally the only post I couldn't parse from scum!Keyser, but at the same time it would look almost a bit too bad if he jumped onto such easy lynchbait.

@Irrelephant - yeah gonna try and work an alternative wagon as we head into the deadline

This post, however, pretty much nullifies the affect the last post had, because I couldn't get why town!Keyser would want to move onto a new wagon when he didn't necessarily clear volxen or give any indication whatsoever that he was town-reading him.

That's pretty much all I had on volxen/Keyser distancing (or at least what I've bothered to bring up). I was then just basically going to summarize all the anti-town/scummy things he did this game, including but not limited to...

>Basically only responding to my initial case on him with "town could do the same things I'm doing right now!", which is a pretty petty defense, then when I brought up that I wasn't convinced by this he basically hammered down on the concept while later claiming I was focusing too much on him, despite the fact he basically didn't prove any of my points wrong so I had no reason not to shift focus.
>The fact that out of the whole lynch pool D1, the only player on there who didn't criticize Keyser directly was volxen, his own scum-buddy. His only scum-reads were basically people who criticized him and he was far too happy to throw out town-reads to anyone who town-read him, which completely neglects the possibility of buddying and is not town motivated at all.
>Related to the above, pretty much the way he was happy-go-lucky with everyone who town-read him but super aggressive with anyone who didn't. It wasn't a natural shift in tone, and it certainly wasn't town-motivated. Also, generally not accepting of the fact that people could possibly scum-read Keyser.
>Basically the way he did a complete 180 on me when I didn't suspect him anymore.
>Oh, and the super obvious Huntress night-kill. It's such a scum!Keyser night-kill it's not even funny, really.

There's probably some stuff I forgot, and a lot of the case is a bit rushed because I'm not too motivated to case caught scum so some of the points aren't all that polished, but I feel the above was plenty enough evidence here to convict scum!Keyser. Honestly, I was going to push a the worst/Keyser pairing at the start of the day because I thought the worst was pocketing a bit too much for my taste (and reminded me a lot of my first scum game with him) and the progression to voting volxen didn't really feel natural to me. I thought volxen put only town in his scum-reads because it basically read as a desperate attempt to start another counter-wagon and he wouldn't really want to bus Toranaga in that scenario, but I did suspect him a bit for pushing volxen but never actually voting him until it was clear he had to bus, which was a pretty noticeable ping. I thought Ausuka's votes felt opportunistic as well and I didn't find her initial read very organic, so my lynch plan would've basically been {Keyser, the worst, Toranaga, Ausuka} which would've worked out fine in the end anyhow.

I mean I think you're only response to this was "what? keyser? would be confusing!"

[Irrelephant11]

mmmmmmmmmmmmnnnnnnnnnnnnngggggggggggggg

I don't know this day has gotten unclear. I feel like I have good townreads but we can't agree who to lynch
where's Reundo
VOTE: the worst

[Irrelephant11]

sure
VOTE: dunnstral
that was a good way of putting what I couldn't find words to argue, btw

[Irrelephant11]

why did you want sesq over volxen lynched last gameday

[Irrelephant11]

guys come sheep nsg with me
[img]https://media.giphy.com/media/kYcQa5UKGFQti/giphy.gif/img]

Where I'm at: ready for a flip

[Irrelephant11]

guys come sheep nsg with me


Where I'm at: ready for a flip

ebwop

[Irrelephant11]

Produce for the weekend
I’m hoping this game will be solved by tomorrow

[Irrelephant11]

yeah if this hammer flips red keep going down the obvious paths, it's worked so far
If it flips green do some re-evaluating but don't totally paranoia freak out till there's two mislynches in a row imo

also hi I'm back, hopefully I did indeed return to a solved game

[Irrelephant11]

Right now, I’m basically left with TW and Eragon in my PoE.

That is the crazy world we live in.


If TW and Eragon offer their thoughts of eachother that would be great.

I was catching up on got here right about when I read this

TOWN CORE
-Eragon
-Irrelephant11
-Toranaga
-Nauci
-the worst


Town based on what other people said
-Reundo

PoE Bracket
-Ausuka
-northsidegal
-Keyser Söze
-Dunnstral

Probably the town
-Ausuka

probably the scum(yes i know theres three of them but i could see them all flipping scum, but i know one of them wont, i just dont know which)
-NSG
-keyser soze
-dunnstral


these are all in order of strength from top to bottom.

So Irrelpephant is my strongest TR(other than me)
and TW is my weakest Town circle(still like 90% positive hes town tho)
Reundo is in his own category because i havent seen him do anything at all today and im just going based off what others say
Ausuka is my weakest SR
While Dunn is my strongest, although its very very close between him/keyser/NSG and i am happy to go any way

I don’t like this readslist.

It kinda vibrates a going-with-the-popular vibe.

I still don’t know why Eragon isn’t voting me or Dunnstral.

When I pressed Eragon what the nature of her scum read was of me, it basically sounded like for tonal/playstyle reasons, which is strictly NAI for me. Plus, I personally didn’t like Eragon piggy-backing Nauci’s attack on me. It felt like keeping the sustained pressure/attention on my slot without committing to a vote (which I would have expected to be the next logical step. Still no vote).

I don’t know why she has labelled NSG “probable scum” too. All I know is NSG was a viable wagon for a many (including me at some point today).

Why is TW in her “town core” too? I’m having a hard time t/reading TW, so please share this conclusive evidence of TW warranting “town core” status.

qft
UNVOTE:
So should we flashwagon Eragon now or

[Irrelephant11]

Hi Ausuka
I don't think you'll get a Reundo lynch, but I am curious if you're still scumreading him after his most recent post

Also did you wanna start a wagon on someone new

[Irrelephant11]

Yeah it was fake and I decided I was bored waiting for Dunnstral to come give twilight thoughts, esp. given he might have easily noticed it was fake

[Irrelephant11]

For the record I think eragon has played a very towny looking game
And I need to review ISO before actually flashwagoning
But I think there's some good points about dunnstral being town and if he's scum I doubt he'll win with his play so far so I'm willing to lynch someone else today

ausuka has appealed to my emotions somewhat successfully and in a more towny than scummy way imo, nsg is almost definitely town as are nauci/keyser/tor/reundo

So I'm ready to lynch eragon or tw and leave the lynchbait around for tomorrow
If I should be aiming for ausuka someone convince me in real time

pedit: I think you should be townreading most of his posts, though maybe not his activity

[Irrelephant11]

@ausuka update me on your tw and eragon reads

[Irrelephant11]

Ausuka
Eragon
the worst
Dunnstral

[Irrelephant11]

How would you feel about lynching Eragon?

no u answer

[Irrelephant11]

yeah after a number of hours I am still good with a dunnstral lynch
but that fake twilight got boring u kno
so I had to unvote

VOTE: dunnstral

[Irrelephant11]

UNVOTE: if it gets us more from the dunnster

[Irrelephant11]

VOTE: Eragon

[Irrelephant11]

I need advice from a neutral party:

Does this look like confirmation bias? Or someone suspiciously chaining misslynches / linking a townie-to-scum?

@Irrelphant11 - what does it look like to you?

You are a good person to ask as you scum read me in our last game.

wow shucks this is a good point
He does look a lot like I did that game
man idk anymore
if you couldn't tell


pedit: Ewo yes I like walking y do u ask

[Irrelephant11]

Irrelephant since it's no longer the weekend: I expect effort posts again! By which I mostly mean, what do you think of my case on Keyser?

I'm sliiiightly overgamed but I will answer this as soon as I'm able

[Irrelephant11]

I’ll take it as a compliment you are scum reading me.

If Eragon is actually town who is trapped in confirmation bias / suffocating paranoia, so be it.

All my actions (even though innocent and NAI) are being scum read by Eragon and Nauci - but I’m ok with that. I like the content and rationale behind Nauci’s other reads though. If she opposes the Eragon lynch strongly there’s only one way to go and end today:

Dunn’s flip. the ultimate info lynch for D2. If he flips town, I’ll probably need to replace out though.

Don't replace out <3
in fact you've made this game very fun for me please be in more games I'm in

I'm not the watcher.... I'm a duckling



duh

I'm impressed you weren't NKed n1 with the amount of TMI posting that volxen was scum at that EOD

why would he be killed for giving off TMI??

isnt TMI bad?

knowing volxen is scum requires one to be the watcher, or scum.

are

are you a time traveler

he claimed watcher, remember?

so if you're the watcher you might behave like TW

I can't decide if this is a smart note about tw being scum or a dumb outing of our only PR

[Irrelephant11]

So my browser crashed while I was collecting ["Q+]'s

[Irrelephant11]

long story short I don't want a Keyser lynch I still kinda want an Eragon lynch and I feel like it's gonna be a dunnstral lynch at this rate which thanks to tora I am much less interested in atm

[Irrelephant11]

Nauci thinks Keyser
Is scummy in many ways
Like she's really sure

She contrasts this game
With American Presidents
(Where she had inno)

The comparison
Is murky at best I think
Though very thorough

I don't think Keyser
Is so obviously scum
But I could be wrong

[Irrelephant11]

these competing wagons are fascinating

[Irrelephant11]

VOTE: the worst

last scum is actually incredibly hard to figure out and I can see eragon's posts on d2 as not w/w with dunn as well

I really don't know where to go.

are we sure nauci is town?

yes, nauci is town. the duck is scum.

correct

I would love to be scum in this setup lmaooo

pedit: I agree NSG is probably still town

Keyser still really doesn't feel like scum to me :s

not sure who's gonna be left as a scumread for you...

last scum is obviously good lmao
it's just in {Tora, Rel, Reundo} outside chance of Nauci everyone else is like too high town equity

can't really be bothered crossing names out if this bracket atm but i know I need to

Interesting. This reminds me of Dunnstral's suddent "scumread" of me last game day.
Others are interpreting this as "too unique to be scum" but I think I see it as just you going for the Reundo mislynch 'cause he's not around

last scum is obviously good lmao
it's just in {Tora, Rel, Reundo} outside chance of Nauci everyone else is like too high town equity

can't really be bothered crossing names out if this bracket atm but i know I need to

Unfortunately the mob would lynch me or you before these 3

lol true

I think he's pretty high town equity too tbqh I've just been warned to look the fuck out for his scumgame and need to reassess whether his distancing from volxen and Dunn feels organic or whether he had them pinned for scumbuddies going down

he's tentatively the one I wanna remove from the PoE the most

If I were scum I'd have two living partners <3

It would just be so weird if Dunn actually wanted his last buddy in Eragon lynched. d2 didn't feel like competing scumwagons.

I agree with this

lynch Eragon not Dunn
the fuck

lynch Eragon not Dunn
the fuck

actually I think I dreamed up reasons to townread Dunn
VOTE: Dunnstral
if this greens Eragon tmrw obviously and we have his partner in the fucks who tried to manipulate the wagon : ]

KING DUCKLING
LOLHAMMERING SCUM SINCE 2K18

brb

i dont really think that these posts feel natural to me with Dunn interactions

This is the Worst’s dance.

He’ll do exactly what you expect and don’t expect in an over the top performance.

Strip away the music, and you’re left with a distancing attempt and healthy dose of WIFOM that he can fall back on.

lolllll this is so rude but also hilarious

early vote park on his rvs on Dunn doesn't actually feel partnery at all..switch to Sesq was legit and Rel jumped on the same E issues I had originally

yuck I hope this isn't scumRel or I'm fucked

Already said scum-Irrelephant has already won this game
But I think this is the same inquisitive soul that I played with in my last game. He’s had his nose and fingers in every pie this game. Not in a scummy/opportunistic way, but in a global scum hunting style. Plus, he’s had so many chances to misslynch my ass this game it’s not funny. Nauci-Irrephant would have powered through any lynch if they stood together.

Aw thanks, this would be a medium good scum game for me (in terms of deepwolfing, not losing my partners obv)
Instead this is turning out to be one of my fav town games

@Eragon - “If you say that someone has a finger in every pie, you mean they are involved in a lot of things. He very much likes to have a finger in every pie. He's a man with fingers in a lot of pies.”

I present to you
pierelephant11

I WAS GONNA DO THIS DANGIT
hahahahaha

That's 3 players who see the same weirdness from Keyser this game and at least 2 of us aren't scum lol

People who hard town read Keyser: what's the thing that has you most convinced he's town?

Well I know you keep referencing American Pres as a reason to scumread him
But I had the unique experience of sharing dual townclear with him for two (three?) day phases. It was really fun being this conftown team, and it feels exactly the same working alongside him to figure this game out
It also forced me to reevaluate all my reasons for scumreading him and realize most of them belonged to a town meta I didn't intuitively understand, which is what you seem to be coming up against
But I agree Keyser should be in the PoE at this point

anyways, i would be surprised if this game wasn't won by lynching toranaga, the worst and eragon (maybe in that order)

Mmmmm I don't want to lynch Toranaga ever I think
Look again at how he moved wagon movement to volxen D1
Look at the time stamps
He chose volxen's lynch 100%, and not as a team with tw trying to lose their weakest member (like I tinfoiled awhile back)
Eragon can be in your PoE I guess

I guess I can't 100% rule out irrelephant or toranaga

but I 100% rule out nsg/reundo/eragon/myself

P.S. Sorry Toranaga for being illiterate and thinking your name was Toranga for days

This is a good set of people to rule out, and I don't even mind you're including yourself

I'm going to take a hard look at Reundo but I'd like to request that everyone currently townreading him re-evaluate Keyser. Can you put into words why you feel Keyser is definitely town? I can put into words why I town read all of the people I town read, but I feel like the town reads on Keyser are sort of coasting on the fact that he's posting with high effort, without seeing the pacing and narrative of his moves and considering the possibility that he's scum here.

I'm also going to re-evaluate Irrelephant, but my gut says that he would have done more to prevent his partners from getting lynched because this is a difficult game to deepwolf.

Yeah Keyser has done more than post a lot, he's sorted a lot
He prevented the viable Sesq lynch D1
He kept two wagons alive D2 for maximum readability of the playerlist
I just see him doing pro town stuff at every turn
He's made his scumteam's wincon harder over and over when he could have just not
But I see your case on him and how as scum he hard defends teammates (like he sorta did with Dunn) and I take it into consideration to keep him in my PoE

Dunn has been wolfy
Dunn is l-1 and has disappeared
Dunn is good at town and can be awkward as scum

But TW still votes Eragon when I had worked up a last ditch effort to get Eragon wiped from the game....
I would have probably been lynched today if I hadn’t changed my mind on Eragon. That was two viable misslynches he could work with.

Smells like: scummy opportunism
Tastes like: TW scum-meta

yes

[Irrelephant11]

IM SORRY I COULDN'T RESIST

?
for future reference:

Code: Select all

[youtube]Gs069dndIYk[/youtube]

[Irrelephant11]

@tw how willing are you to be the designated lynch to help all of us distracted by your slot sort the rest of the playerlist?
@keyser same question

[Irrelephant11]

I would suggest at some point if we have a consensus lynchpool, the watcher, if they're in that lynchpool, should claim
If tw is watcher he should claim now I think, he's already at L-2 iirc

[Irrelephant11]

I mean if we get a fake claim, watcher always cc's
It's a gamesolve so yeah
We agree

[Irrelephant11]

[Irrelephant11]

elli-tell

tell me more

[Irrelephant11]

ooh good catch
I'd vote there maybe
Definitely curious to hear from Reundo at this stage

[Irrelephant11]

hmmm
the passion seems uncalled for
I don't think there's any reason to assume this high-functioning town would just give up and follow a predetermined lynch chain the moment there's a green flip
That was mostly a reaction test and you didn't really pass

But I still want to hear more from Reundo before I tunnel tw

[Irrelephant11]

fwiw I think ewo gets a townpoint or two for being early to look at Reundo this game day when I'm being convinced that he is actually the other most likely scum

I'll be too sad if it's keyser so that rules him out

[Irrelephant11]

I’ll be here more tomorrow
Probably I agree without keyser and Nauci

[Irrelephant11]

Pivoting to new viable mislynch targets as scum is an art form and I've only seen Irrelephant11 do it with absolute grace on this site

you are too nice

Ummm I really do want to do some re-reading given the dunn flip
And we have like a week so idk why everyone makes it feel like the day is about to end and we have to rush
Obv we won't need all that time but like, a couple days would be nice

Just based on this gameday alone I think tw is the correct lynch
Something from last time he was scum where he said a thing like "when I'm scum you can tell I just want outttt" and his exhaustion here is reading scum in a game that has me so energized for flipping scum twice in a row
But yeah, I'll be re-reading more today

[Irrelephant11]

We end up at 4 people alive but 1 person is confirmed town (watcher) or there's a cc

So it's not worse

We have a watcher no matter what and a base 1/3 of finding scum is in fact worse than 1/2 bass chance of finding scum

Unless you’re talking about something else I’m not reading because this doesn’t exactly communicate the idea clearly

I mean it's not worse than a regular game at 3 people alive

----

Keyser I don't think I caught you in the game we played, not sure why you think I should be "taking lead" today either

If Dunnstral flips red I would actually wanna put Irrelephant under closer inspection (i.e ill-timed/ill-formed distancing attempt). Or vice versa. I've enjoyed talking to Irrelephant11 so he's on the green side of null so far.

This is bad preflip stuff and you have to jump to a lot of conclusions to get to this point - also it's not warranted at this time

VOTE: Sesq
This is a good place to put a serious vote

weird choice of posts to share comments on:

- first one about set-up talk
- second one about a previous game
- third one about early D1 pre-flip paranoia
- unexplained vote

Can you explain why this is suspicious?

If you're confused about my sesq vote then you're not seeing something in the ~5 posts they had when I voted them?

They voted Keyser in rvs, then followed it up by shading their opening post and then post 80 where they keep their vote on keyser while saying some contradictory things and they seem to be focused only on keyser

These three posts read town!Keyser to me

It’s been somewhat hard to try and get reads on everyone since the game started out with a lot of activity in the beginning and then quickly died way down, but here are some preliminary reads that I have so far:

Town Reads:

Keyser - I actually like that he started the game by asking about hypoclaiming in 13, it showed that right off the bat he wanted to strategize on how to potentially make things more difficult for the scumteam. This is only my second game on this site so I don’t have any firsthand experience with hypoclaiming or its effectiveness, but I think it’s not likely that a member of the scumteam would suggest this as a tactic, since it could, theoretically, allow the watcher to reveal who they got a guilty on while making it more difficult for the scumteam to identify the real watcher.

Overall, I feel like he is someone that has been genuinely trying to gamesolve and move the game forward. He hasn’t done anything that comes across as scummy to me.

Null Reads:

northsidegal – I’m not really sure what to make of the whole comma’s thing. It seems like a stretch, but maybe she will have more to say about it.

GameNBurger – As I mentioned in 125, GNB is currently a null read for me as most of his content is about the math proof, not wanting to be townread for the math proof, hypoclaiming, and lurking. I originally asked him why he felt the need to go out of his way to tell all of us not to townread him in 104, as I found this a bit suspicious and thought his response to my question might potentially be alignment indicative. However, I found his response in 108 to be fairly neutral, and not enough in and of itself to make me lean towards townreading him or scumreading him. Of course, he is being replaced so I will have to see what his replacement does, but for now this slot is still null for me.

Scum Reads:

2.718 – I really didn’t like his post-RVS opening in 91. I feel like he tried to completely misrepresent what Keyser really meant when he said that he didn’t want to talk about hypoclaiming/setup past page 1, and even after Keyser clarified this in 92 (that he wasn’t “forbidding” discussion but rather that he didn’t want to partake in it himself), 2.718 still continued to press the issue in 101.

I also didn’t like that in 91 2.718 was quick to side with Reundo in the Keyser vs Reundo argument that was going on at the time. 2.718 made the comment here that “Reundo's 46 is a little annoying but I like how he looked at everyone”. At the time, Reundo only had two posts, 46 and 50, in which he mainly focused on attacking Keyser, with only brief references made to Sesq, GameNBurger, and northsidegal in 50. 2.718’s post made it sound like Reundo was taking a balanced look at “everyone”, when in reality he was primarily just hammering down on Keyser. I feel like this was a very weak reason for 2.718 to jump in so quickly to side with Reundo.

I also find his town read of Reundo questionable in 151. He gave him a town score of 4.5, and all he really had to say was that Reundo’s post in 119 was “great”, without stating why he thought it was great or pro-town. So once again, he is defending Reundo without really providing any explanation or reasoning. And then in 182, he literally says “I see nothing that is worth my attention”, as if he is simply not interested in trying to find scum anymore.

VOTE: 2 718281828459

This to me says town!Reundo. I don't think volxen shades Reundo without a vote so carelessly (not to mention Reundo being a big reason volxen flipped) unless their only pre-game plan was "bus until one of us is dead, then ride the towncred infinitely" which is an option but not one I'm considering at F7

@Volxen in your previous readslist why did you include more nullreads than scum or town reads?

Fair question. I only included those four reads because It’s honestly been hard to get reads on people in this game. However, Sesq and Toranaga are now also scumreads for me, largely due to the points that I brought up in 254. 2.718 is still a scumread for me, and I believe it is very likely that there is at least one scum among {2.718, Sesq, Toranaga}. I will reiterate all of this in an updated readslist post that I will be making soon.

Reundo is someone that I would like to get a read on, but I’ve been having a very difficult time trying to read him. I REALLY did NOT like the way he started this game in 46. But I’m not sure if his interactions (and arguments) with Keyser are SvT or TvT (Keyser is still a townread for me). The last time I went through his ISO and reviewed his interactions with Keyser, I ended up just getting really frustrated because I couldn’t get a read on him one way or another. I’m going to review Reundo’s content again, and hopefully I will catch something that I may have missed the first time around.

Anyways, that’s just a brief update on where I am at reads-wise. I know our deadline is coming up soon, so I plan to post an updated readslist by tomorrow.

though this maybe says Reundo should get a closer look idk

@Reundo - help me with Toranaga and Ausuka.
Both can’t be scum... so either both town, or one scum?

Why do you call out to Reundo here?

Anyone have thoughts on this post? I can't decide how to read it
Like a) dunnstral didn't post much, so he maybe posted this because he saw his scumpartner's name
b) it might have just been simple shading of keyser

Either way this also reads town!Keyser to me

Go back to sleep ducky you're wrong

This actually seems sorta svt, maybe I'm overtunneling the duck?

@Dunn - why do you suspect Eragon?

feels kind of detached from the game

VOTE: Eragon

Yeah this is survivalism eragon can be conftown for at least this game day for the same reason Nauci is town for sesq's d1 wagon

[Irrelephant11]

Spoiler: A bunch of quotes somehow in the wrong order I don't feel like fixing and therefore don't feel like explaining in depth rn

volxen/sesq/271 all fine lynches

:0

#me

shortly after replacing in is fine with a volxen lynch but not a dunnstral lynch (has a townread there)

dunnstral seems kind of scummy right now, so that's a good a place as any for a vote.

wHY

We end up at 4 people alive but 1 person is confirmed town (watcher) or there's a cc

So it's not worse

We have a watcher no matter what and a base 1/3 of finding scum is in fact worse than 1/2 bass chance of finding scum

Unless you’re talking about something else I’m not reading because this doesn’t exactly communicate the idea clearly

I mean it's not worse than a regular game at 3 people alive

----

Keyser I don't think I caught you in the game we played, not sure why you think I should be "taking lead" today either

If Dunnstral flips red I would actually wanna put Irrelephant under closer inspection (i.e ill-timed/ill-formed distancing attempt). Or vice versa. I've enjoyed talking to Irrelephant11 so he's on the green side of null so far.

This is bad preflip stuff and you have to jump to a lot of conclusions to get to this point - also it's not warranted at this time

VOTE: Sesq
This is a good place to put a serious vote

I kinda want to swap Dunn and E/2.71 in your PoE but otherwise we're pretty close stance wise. I can't find a reason to like E yet.

though maybe you're scum for putting your name in your town list.....


hmm interesting take on Volx/Reundo. I want to read them as not scum together fwiw

anyways, i feel as if this game i'm just going to try to get a towncore and go off of poe mainly

town:
northsidegal
2.718281828459 (unfortunate you didn't replace into this slot ducky, i think it's town)
Ausuka
Keyser Söze (presuming i can trust kop on keyser's alignment and just for now - keyser is someone who i plan to do more meta on when i get the energy or when someone bothers me about it enough)
Irrelephant11

that leaves:
{volxen, the worst, Dunnstral, Reundo, Toranaga, Kop}

which feels vaguely alright in terms of a poe

hot take: we need to hammer Sesq who will do nothing to defend themselves or flashwagon volxen who is one rung townier and will become extremely obvious later if scum

I'm down. righteous af flashwagon

VOTE: volxen

anyone who doesn't vote volxen in their next post is scum with him tbqh

:ok_hand:
red flip d1 feels good man

drunk ducky gonna slep now gngn

I think this is actually TMI, because he was already like “red flip Day 1 feels good”

I mean, town never KNOWS that the person is scum unless a TI has a guilty, but TW acted like he KNEW volxen was scum, not HOPING that volxen was scum and not actually watcher.

being overconfident is my thing
this is creepy

it is actually a generally pingy entrance (and bad slot) lmao but I wasn't gonna go there for reals yet, 587 is an injoke

pedit: yeah I'm not digging Dunn today

I think I need NSG to descend from the heavens again for a couple of minutes. I might have been dumb questioning her Dunn read initially

Which, given scum don't have day chat, is VERY INTERESTING.
If volxen "will become extremely obvious later if scum", why be concerned about lynching him now? (wagon movement was still more toward sesq, who tw says here is scummier)
Unless he's trying to hint to his scum buddy that it's time to bus

i mean like
he followed that post by really poorly fakeclaiming so
*shrug*

fyi when I read ausuka's ISO before reading this thread I was like "aw crap my cuz rolled scum against me" but in real time/context she came across a lot townier

post volxen flip I actually think it's up/down/up, her earlier posting is towny, it feels like there ~could~ be some partner interactions, her current posting is back to being pretty much fine.

Idk man I've got stronger reads but we may as well play this mountainousesque so I'mma lynch up my read list

Dunn is a better one today I think

Votecount 2.11

Ausuka (3) - Toranaga 620, Eragon 920, Reundo 946
Dunnstral (3) - northsidegal 786, Irrelephant11 829, Keyser Söze 856
Reundo (1) - Ausuka 823
Keyser Söze (1) - Nauci 725

Not voting: the worst 726, Dunnstral 915

The deadline for Day 2 is 2:17 pm CT on Thursday, September 20, in (expired on 2018-09-20 15:17:24).

good morning

VOTE: Dunnstral

Go back to sleep ducky you're wrong

Votecount 2.21

Dunnstral (3) - northsidegal 786, Ausuka 1078, Irrelephant11 1222
Ausuka (2) - Eragon 920, Reundo 946
northsidegal (1) - Toranaga 1045

Not voting: Dunnstral 915, the worst 1094, Keyser Söze 1270, Nauci 1271

The deadline for Day 2 is 2:17 pm CT on Thursday, September 20, in (expired on 2018-09-20 15:17:24).

Mod notes

- The worst is V/LA until September 17th.
- Nauci is V/LA until September 18.

VOTE: Dunn
head saying this is right but telling me dunn/aus are t/t
I think I'm wrong abt Dunn before Aus tho so stfu gut!

Votecount 2.14

Dunnstral (3) - northsidegal 786, Keyser Söze 856, the worst 956
Ausuka (2) - Eragon 920, Reundo 946
northsidegal (1) - Toranaga 1045
Reundo (1) - Ausuka 823
Keyser Söze (1) - Nauci 725

Not voting: Dunnstral 915, Irrelephant11 1043

The deadline for Day 2 is 2:17 pm CT on Thursday, September 20, in (expired on 2018-09-20 15:17:24).

UNVOTE:
awright

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Dunnstral
doc on me

Dunn has been wolfy
Dunn is l-1 and has disappeared
Dunn is good at town and can be awkward as scum
why the fuck would we lynch anyone else but that D:
also Eragon feels like his fingers are bleeding as much as his heart I might need to reacquaint myself with his scum meta before I'm OK with a lynch there

P.S. sent you a gift Ausuka, hope it hatches a regional!

VOTE: Dunnstral

ye its time to end this

BRO COME ON
VOTE: Eragon

> eragon pushes scum!Keyser without voting
> wagon on Dunn forms
> eragon is called out as scum
> eragon hops onto Dunn wagon near lynch with classic mislynch "let's end this" rhetoric

lynch Eragon not Dunn
the fuck

actually I think I dreamed up reasons to townread Dunn
VOTE: Dunnstral
if this greens Eragon tmrw obviously and we have his partner in the fucks who tried to manipulate the wagon : ]

last scum is obviously good lmao
it's just in {Tora, Rel, Reundo} outside chance of Nauci everyone else is like too high town equity

can't really be bothered crossing names out if this bracket atm but i know I need to

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=76623

can someone better at meta reads iso Reundo in this game? something intangible is just missing.

Ngl if I was scum I'd be at the point of fucked/exhausted I'd start lolshooting into the townblock and hoping the watcher just rolls the dice differently

very low value self meta but yee

@tw how willing are you to be the designated lynch to help all of us distracted by your slot sort the rest of the playerlist?
@keyser same question

I am also fully aware I am D5’s lynch if TW flips green.

^^^ fuck that primarily for this reason.
you'll mislynch two high town equity slots because you're all distracted by stupid shit which puts you in LyLo with {Reundo, Nauci, Tora} most likely all alive and the actual last scum is one of those 3 sooo

if you need to lynch me and you can all leave Keyser alive and hunt in that block that's fine.

you realise its pretty exhausting that you fucks are so used to playing against me that you can't read me for shit right? I don't give a fuck about your reaction test.

[Irrelephant11]

So basically tw voted Dunnstral whenever he had >3 votes and unvoted when his vote was the third one (bringing Dunn down to 2 votes)
then last second he moved to Eragon
mm
I think I'm just stuck on wanting to lynch the duck

But I'll go look at Reundo, whose activity is not very good
I mean just based on post count we should probably actually flip reundo first

[Irrelephant11]

Who was town reading Volxen?

Volx looks town to me

You were? Also 2.718 in his reads list. What's not compelling about my case?

I'm back.

I think I was town-reading Dunn at some point during D2, but going back through his ISO I'm a bit less confident on that. I'm still hesitate about lynched him, mostly surrounding his interactions with volxen D1. Dunn was pretty strapped for some town-cred during D1, so I don't really think that as scum he'd want to defend his already scummy looking partner -- it'll basically lock in his lynch as soon as volxen's lynched. Even though it seemed like attention was shifting more to Sesq during the latter half of D1, there was still a fairly probable chance that volxen would still be lynched, so him doubling down on the sesq lynch -- even going as far as to town-read his own partner -- didn't seem like the most optimal scum plan. I'd feel as scum he'd be more inclined to bus his partner there and try to reap some town-cred instead of further digging his grave by associating himself with volxen so heavily. It's also clear he has no intentions of presenting himself as towny going into D2, which makes him hard to read admittedly, but also doesn't fall much in line with a scum agenda. Still, there are a few things about him that are a bit iffy, such as that time he almost seemed to forgot he even town-read volxen. Also, him complaining about Sesq question dodging while also dodging my question about how Sesq's question dodging was scum-indicative was also pretty yuck. I feel he has a decent enough chance of flipping town regardless, though.

Northsidegal can be credited with starting the momentum behind the counter-wagon on Sesq (Dunn was also voting Sesq, but that was before the counter-wagon on volxen and no one seemed to really care about his reasoning). I guess starting a counter-wagon to the wagon on your scum-buddy could be scum-indicative, but in that scenario I feel scum would just be content to see their partner lynched there. Being the front of a wagon she'd know would flip town (unless the pair is north/sesq/volx... yuck) would already not be a good look for her, but if the attention would ever divert back to volxen (which it did) then it'd make her look worse, and I don't see any scum agenda in putting herself in a lose-lose situation like that. Her reasons for town-reading volxen were plausible, and it would make sense why she'd want to lynch Sesq if she under-performed in comparison to her last town game. It's a bit suspicious that her peak moments of game-solving came right when volxen was about to be lynched, but it also coincides with the worst replacing in so idk. She also didn't seem to care about me town-reading Sesq, so that's another knock against me, but in a nutshell I think scum wouldn't be inclined to stick her head out as much as she did.

I still think Ausuka is a good lynch. My biggest town-points from her were because of her reads-list since I didn't see much scum motivation in town-reading a lot of the potential lynch pool, but that slowly evaporated when she showed she was willing to back down from e read because "people disagreed with her" and that she was willing to hop onto the Sesq wagon despite her tr on them because it was probably trash. The associations between her and volxen are also plausible from a scum persepctive -- she initially thought volxen was "active lurking" in her reads list, which gave her a good enough reason to bus volxen when it was clear he was about to be lynched, then when attention shifted to Sesq she decided her partner was no longer at much risk for being lynched so she jumped back onto Sesq. She later gave a semi-scumread of volxen later on, which gave her another excuse to bus him when lynching volxen once again became the hip new thing. As far as her D2 goes, her vote on me would almost be too bad to come from scum but it almost seems like she's sr'ing me for sr'ing her since I did voice some concerns about her just before then.

Most of that is going based off of just D1 so I might need to do a re-read to refresh my thoughts, but in a nutshell I'm most hesistant against a northsidegal lynch, semi-hesistant against a Dunn lynch, and not really that hesitant against an Ausuka lynch as well. I feel that people are almost too eager to lynch Ausuka though, so that's throwing me off a little, so I might consider starting a counter-wagon at some point. Also, Nauci is oozing town, and that's after considering possible buddying with regards to her high praises of me (which I appreciate a lot, fwiw ), so everyone suspecting her is probably sus af.

These two posts townclear Reundo for me

[Irrelephant11]

Spoiler: double checking nsg's alignment (hint:town)

dunnstral seems kind of scummy right now, so that's a good a place as any for a vote.

i remember someone asking or pondering upon why i wasn't voting GNB if i was apparently scumreading him, and while i didn't and still don't really understand the mindset of what he was saying, it didn't really ping me as all that scum indicative on an instintcutal level.

anyways,
VOTE: dunnstral

I mean, that looks like exactly what you're saying here, except replace that with "Kop's commas are scummy"

i began a response to this a day or so ago but never finished it

the statement "kop's commas are scummy" implies that in a vacuum i think that the use of commas is scum-indicative (patently absurd). the punctuation itself is secondary to my main point - i noticed a stylistic difference between the way someone was typing here and the way that i remember that same person typing in a previous game as scum. i don't think anyone would possibility dispute that that has a very good chance of being in some way meaningful.

-shrug-

you're being far less reasonable than i typically expect you to be, and i'm not sure if i should take it as scum-indicative or not

it angers me the way dunnstral has framed my argument, genuinely.

anyways, i feel as if this game i'm just going to try to get a towncore and go off of poe mainly

town:
northsidegal
2.718281828459 (unfortunate you didn't replace into this slot ducky, i think it's town)
Ausuka
Keyser Söze (presuming i can trust kop on keyser's alignment and just for now - keyser is someone who i plan to do more meta on when i get the energy or when someone bothers me about it enough)
Irrelephant11

that leaves:
{volxen, the worst, Dunnstral, Reundo, Toranaga, Kop}

which feels vaguely alright in terms of a poe

tinfoil theory: Eragon is scum and his partner(s) felt the need to welcome him in thread to try to seem like they're not talking in pt

Not a serious theory jsut something to consider I guess

????

oh, uh

i think dunnstral is scum again (again? still? honestly cannot remember what conclusion i came to yesterday)

Spoiler: me bragging for a sec

Yeah that's fair
I'm pretty much over it as much as you are
Talk to me about Dunnstral

No my vote was RVS but I can't decide how to feel about his one post being a response to Burger's game theory stuff. He didn't participate in RVS, or correct Burger on the definition of hypoclaiming, or suggest anything was AI

It's the lack of content from a player that has shown up that I find interesting

mm I think I want Dunnstral to know he's being scrutinized
he tricked me in lylo last time we played together so prolly he already knows that anyway

Woah just found my good page 3 INSTINCTS

[Irrelephant11]

I have reached a conclusion: the worst is scum and delaying hammer is not necessary
Reundo has done their part already and we don't need to wait
If they're scum we'll catch 'em tomorrow anyway, this town is fierce

Fire when ready!