Micro 827: The Team Odds - Game Over

[Performer]

RC why did you reject my nrg application for no good reason.
Dunn you didn't mention me (though I'm town, yess) in your c, d, e.

This is the background information I know so far:
-schad & I have hosted games where we’ve seen rc as scum and town, and I’m sure a good # of us have seen him scum or town. Schad has seen my scum game before
-played with carca 3 years ago when we were town
-dunnstral’s playstyle typically gives me a scum tone
-can’t recall if I played with nsg before
--------

It’s you, it’s you, these aren’t empty words
It’s you, it’s you, this isn’t a misunderstanding
It’s you, it’s you, I won’t say anything else, you can trust me
It’s you, it’s you, don’t hide
It’s you, it’s you, don’t avoid me
-Golden Child – It’s U

[Performer]

Dunn you didn't mention me (though I'm town, yess) in your c, d, e.

Because you're F?

Hold on, you mentioned 3 people and I had the 2nd highest % to be scum . None of those 3 were me or the bottom 2 iirc.
Plus we've played 22 games together where I've never seen you come out of the gate voting someone like this.

Only reason I haven't put you on L-1 is that I'm not sure if we have any quick hammer types in here, I've never played a game without any prs like this , and so...that dual combination scares me on pg 2. If we had prs, I'd feel much safer with a safety net but damn. I've also seen your town game in case you are actually town so putting you at L-1 in case someone quick hammers, is too risky so early.

I want to see what more people say.

[Performer]

Am I the only one who thinks dunnformer r buddies

You always sr me....

there is no benefit of quicklynching

none

so hold down your horses and schad please stop being scummy so I can Unvote you

rc why don't you agree with me

yeah carca is likely town. Good to see we're town again!

[Performer]

@carca interestingly though, iirc, I was in a game with bluebloodedtoffee, where we quick lynched on d1. He hammered the victim, ended up being a nk and flipping town, and I believe we lost that game. That game was super bizarre.

[Performer]

She's playing as if she has no agenda and I am also basing the read on meta (yes I know, it's old old meta). I'm sorry to confuse you guys but he let me use this avatar, I really like it because I like Kpop dance . I'm not vonflare, that's correct.

[Performer]

I really like it because I like Kpop dance

i don't see the connection

I asked him for a better avatar and this was the best one he got me, the avatar is moving, Kpop dance is choreographed dance, it's movement, so.
Can we just drop that topic now...thanks...

[Performer]

pedit: a better avatar than the other one which people complained about . ugh..

[Performer]

Like I see absolutely no reason to say what you said (and tbh it was unnecesarily aggressive), and just deciding that game ideology wasn't AI but not considering it further.

yay senpai voted me

Are you triggered by my buddying performer? Because that was quite a shift in opinion

This post is so bizarre.

Why the word choice of "buddying" and mentioning rc voted you. I get a bad feeling that you might be scum instead with a teammate. Of all the things carca that you could say, "interacted/talked to/etc" with me, why are you saying that? That just looks really disturbing.
-------------
off topic:

oh yeah i guess performer does have kind of a formal tone that tends to get scumread. not sure if it's actually scum-indicative or just how he talks always

wow....this is flattering but disturbing at the same time

you can ask carc, rc, dunn, shad, it's just how I sound. I have customer service experience and some of that shows onsite

[Performer]

I'm not sure if carc's interactions with me are genuine town because of that 1 newbie game ages ago, or...faked from a mafia role...sigh...
this is absolutely going to haunt me.

"I love that rc voted me"
"oh because I am buddying performer?"

Wth

[Performer]

I'm not sure if carc's interactions with me are genuine town because of that 1 newbie game ages ago, or...faked from a mafia role...sigh...
this is absolutely going to haunt me.

"I love that rc voted me"
"oh because I am buddying performer?"

Wth

lmao sorry

It's just that the only significant thing that happened between rcs opinion shift was my agreeing actions with you. But IDK rc what changed your mind

VOTE: Performer

ur gonna make me cri

and honestly this entire page is so ironic but it'd be hell to explain why

VOTE: carcalilly
Your thought process here varied from our first game onsite . It sounds like scum agenda (because "I am buddying performer?" and scum coasting with your random posting. I don't believe you're town here.

Also, still sr on him due to the first 2 pgs, but need to see more from Dunn.

And by that quote I mean, you were more concerned about someone's townread than the chance voting shenanigans, and I thought that was a bit disordered in priorities.

actual reads seem far more important to me than the percentages. wouldn't you agree?

so far my mind is telling me there is scum in (Dunn, Schadd, Sky), maybe even both if we are lucky.

My mind is also telling me that NSG and Performer are town, while RC, albeit a few quirks, is probably town as well

haven't gotten the chance to go through your wall yet but eragon how did you tr me by pg 5 so fast? No mention of carca - eragon are you familiar with carca?

[Performer]

Am I the only one who thinks dunnformer r buddies

You always sr me....

there is no benefit of quicklynching

none

so hold down your horses and schad please stop being scummy so I can Unvote you

rc why don't you agree with me

yeah carca is likely town. Good to see we're town again!

this was a terrible townread

possible svs

it was an early tr of her, which changed due to posts and interactions
--------
@era - nvm my question, you already explained it in your wall I saw. It's a pain to read that much and makes it hard for me to sort you.

[Performer]

1. my success rate through smart-sheeping is better than my success rate when figuring out my own reads so actually i think ill actually just sheep from here on out

ur not voting with me

hm why is era town?

VOTE: performer

Just saw this during the catchup.

sky might not be town either

[Performer]

all this math talk between sky & rc , I'm not seeing the relevance of it
not sure how rc changed me from sr to tr either
need to see more from wh4t too

[Performer]

Never played with schad before but he seems to be sorting folks like sky, dunn; interacting with others like sky & rc to get reads. He doesn't seem to be scumreading rc and I.
Going to say schad is town here.

This could be rc's town game due to the way he's been reaction testing and how his reads list has been going. The thing I've noticed when I played with him in many past games , is it gets somewhat easier for me to ascertain his alignment in later phase after d1. Haven't seen enough to make me get an AI read on rc though, so null.

[Performer]

schaddad is still scummy and whatty needs to catch the heck up

but why is schad scum??

[Performer]

Performer although shadd looks like he's reaction testing he's yet to give any stances. I dislike that you've considered him townie for not voting you and RC - how is that AI?

I don't believe I said shad was reaction testing. I consider him town partly because he moderated me & rc before (my 1st post) so he should be able to have a better idea of our alignments . Sort of a meta technique. Same as with my moderating rc that one time.

[Performer]

" constantly pointing to yourself is weird"
???
I have 2 games of meta with you and meta helps read people.
Didn't see why you mentioned c d and e when sky put up a high chance of me being scum, I pointed your post out, you voted me.

off topic: also, aizen over ichigo

[Performer]

Caught up to pg 16.

also I have no idea about the performer opinion but he's being quite informative so I have no plans to Lynch him

posts like this from you carca..... "plans to lynch" me ....
it seems rc has more experience with you than I do. I wonder if carca open wolfs like this if she is scum.

wh4t (?) said something like "schadd has done reaction testing but hasnt taken stances" but i contend that i have done like no actual reaction tests and have taken several stances

You have two stances.

1. Dunnstral 5 posted so is scum
2. You like saying hi to NSG

Did I miss anything out?

You seem flip floppy on sky, what's your read there?

This post gives me a town feel from wh4t, he's keeping up and putting pressure.

still interested in flipping dunnie personally...

same. Don't want him to be in lylo based on what I've seen. still don't think he's town.

@RC: does me flipping town change your performer read at all?

Why would you ask him about me specifically ... what in the??

[Performer]

pg 16 is ... interesting

[Performer]

UNVOTE:

We have enough time before the day ends to sort this

carca what are your reads at this point, and why

[Performer]

hey all, returning from v/a over the weekend. Phone posting so unable to go in depth on things at the moment.
haven't gotten the chance to catch up on things yet but for emphasis, my sr of dunn, carca, & sky are still there. Will be following up today

[Performer]

Hey folks, I do apologize for falling behind in this game a little, but after I caught up from pg 17 and beyond, I see dunn has still not contributed anything except rvs posts and a non-town tunnel of me. Also why did I get prodded and not dunn when he last posted over 48 hours ago?
-----------
The sky self voting was very suspect, so was what rc did in self voting – the thing is, he does unconventional moves like this so it’s NAI for him.

Schad’s analysis makes me more confident he’s town here because if he was lying, rc, me, and other people he’s modded, would’ve been all over him. I found no issues with his analysis of people, at a skim.

Carca – playing very very awkward with some of her posts looking too scummy, yet her 2 posts of reads explanations on pg 21 I do like.

Rc – seems town enough based on insistence on how he’s going to die . I can’t recall a time that he didn’t say that in a game I’ve hosted with him, or one we played together in – and those games he turned out town. I’ve never hosted or been in a game with him where he was scum though, so there’s that. Finding it very bizarre he suddenly on Friday night, said I’m scum because this doesn’t look like my town game…without specifics in his case. The rest of his case on pg 22 is just plain bizarre – anyone could say that about anybody. My scum game is much more one dimensional than my town and third party approaches, RC.
Also thank you for approving me for nrg team! Good to be a part of the team.

Eragon – still can’t get a good enough read on him but he looks like he’s keeping up and contributing well. At the same time I’m not getting a strong enough tr on him, sort of like stefan in the game rc refused to vote formerfish with me in.

wh4t:

i'm rly convinced on skygazer scum, I don't expect to convince yall but I expect her to endgame and for me to be salty about it in postgame at this point.

I need to solidify some reads but I think sky, carca and Eragon are viable lynches at this point. I'm finding it hard to place Dunn, Performer and Shadd atm.

Seriously?? You didn't have a stance on at least dunn or me by pg 22?? Wow. Hard to believe you are town.
----------
don't think carca is the best vote anymore. Need to check vca and some more posts.
UNVOTE:

[Performer]

oh yeah scadd is scum

idrc if you think I'm scum,

Wh4t is problem town
Star town
North town
Rc probscum

Forgot who else was playing

What4 for being all over the place, superficially simplistic and opportunitive

RC for butting everything and trying to manhandle the entire game

And schadd for shallow opinions and awkwardness

north's diligence is great

Sky's tone is just innocent to me I don't know; when I read her posts everything looks thoughtfully true, kinda gutty

How come you didn't mention dunnstral??

[Performer]

My main issue with performer is that I explained why I mentioned c d e and he's still trying to redirect to meta and other stuff

I asked him about meta

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=76388
scum game this year hosted by shad

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=76567
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=76530
town games, recent
obviously those may look a little different since I was a pr in each one, but you get the idea

[Performer]

I see what you mean about the carcaformer associatives. It looks like early distancing on both parts. Since all three of us agree on the carca read then thats probably the better lynch out of the two come EOD.

associatives? What are you even talking about??

My main issue with performer is that I explained why I mentioned c d e and he's still trying to redirect to meta and other stuff

I think I've seen enough from Dunn and intent to hammer.

reasons for dunn to be town:

[Performer]

Performer is scum and rc probably is too, those are my reads

That's it???????
If I knew dunnstral was going to give a not_mafia reply, man....

VOTE: Dunnstral

VOTE: performer

sigh

[Performer]

Performer rly is scum though so like

are you really town here ??
sadly my read of you can only get more accurate after d1, and it is still only d1.

[Performer]

Your posts about this being "unlike" my town game, ... it's so bare and unbelievable

[Performer]

Maybe it really is carca former fuck

Can we just Lynch performer please please please

are you a baker in real life
because this was a freshly baked lie!
-----

VOTE: performer

Shad, man...you moderated me. after moderating people, it's typically easier to discern alignments. I can't believe this, dude....
was I nearly as confrontational or interactive in my scum game - no! Was I more one dimensional in the scum game - yes! At this point it's probably for future reference since you somehow are convinced on me more than dunn. I am disappointed if you seriously sr me.

i am 95% confident that i either get endgamed, shot to throw off nka or i survive in this game i just think it would be helpful toward sorting her

I mean, based on how you're playing...you even read me wrong so that's not surprising if they do.
--------
I think I've said and seen enough from this phase, there is nothing else from me at the moment.

[Performer]

why am i sring you more than dunnie

All I saw in your reads list was you needed to meta my scum game despite thinking I'm possibly town, voted me later, and nothing else.

as for rc, he's talking about how this is different than my town game..without saying anything else, as usual of him.
---------
you guys both see how this is not helping anything and feeds into confirmation bias?

[Performer]

It's just that...it's not just 1 but 2 people
who have special experience (1 modded my scum game, the other played together for so long & knows I'm the type not to change my meta much if at all)

and yet they sr me yet I am town, in this gamestate with dunnstral and someone who self voted a bunch, still doesn't have reads, and is somehow not a lead wagon (skygazer).

It's just irritating and unbelievable in this situation.

[Performer]

from what I could tell, you posted that I'm possibly town but you had to check the modded game, later you naked voted me - so that's scummy.

Despite that, I have no playing experience with you shad. So all factors considered, If I really had to pick, I'd think rc is likelier scum than you for all the interaction with wh4t & sky, switching around votes, team pairings, sr on me moving to tr on me and later sr on me.

Of course, it's d1 and it's not easy to read rc as he's a wild card, it's hard to read him especially on d1...so ... there's that.

[Performer]

from what I could tell, you posted that I'm possibly town but you had to check the modded game, later you naked voted me - so that's scummy.

Despite that, I have no playing experience with you shad. So all factors considered, If I really had to pick, I'd think rc is likelier scum than you for all the interaction with wh4t & sky, switching around votes, team pairings, sr on me moving to tr on me and later sr on me.

Of course, it's d1 and it's not easy to read rc as he's a wild card, it's hard to read him especially on d1...so ... there's that.

[Performer]

rc & shad are still town to me but all I can do in case I get lynched, is continue contributing and that includes pointing out what I scumread.

[Performer]

I feel like your 'but look at all these other scummy people' rxn comes from scum.

If you're taking about why I asked about why they didn't mention someone in their reads, it's to pressure and sort them

[Performer]

rc is there a perf towngame u can link to me that would make this sit better

nvm i'll ask perf cause he's more helpful!

corrected your post for you
----------------
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=76430
town game where I got vigged

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=76530
town game where nm refused to believe bbt was scum

viewtopic.php?t=76697&f=11&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go
a very unfortunate scum game...could've won this won

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=76567
town game where I intentionally got myself lynched as a pr

[Performer]

.

Eragon – still can’t get a good enough read on him but he looks like he’s keeping up and contributing well. At the same time I’m not getting a strong enough tr on him, sort of like stefan in the game rc refused to vote formerfish with me in.

lolwut?

you think im keeping up?

this with the fact that you said I was town, makes me see why people have said you're an sr

[Performer]

you said you townread me, I said I had you null because I'm finding it hard to read you , later you said I think you're keeping up (looked like a fluff post reply), there has been talk of you being mafia, and there's even been some talk about me being teamed with you

[Performer]

I wouldn't say it's scared or defensive, though your wall posts looked like you were keeping up, and after you said you didn't say you were keeping up, you posted about randomly voting someone if they know a piece of literature, with 4 days left before end of d1.

[Performer]

The thing is , rc, that people can do annoying things to us all the time. In his case, I find him scummy.
Carca definitely doesn't look like her scum game with mulch (he said he won 5+ scum games in a row wth) and a mafia traitor, in this game.

Rc if I end up as lynch, we both might die in the same phase. Me d1 you n1.
I also have moved eragon off null based on yesterday's interaction.

nsg can you provide more to us please....for instance why you tr me.

[Performer]

@rc dude 84 & 97 were still early in the day, I was sorting if I needed to vote dunn or carca at that point.
The line about me being "overexplainy" .... I can't even begin with this one.

As for 673, "half treating you like town and half like scum" - what in the ? I was trying to get you guys to contribute more about what on Earth you guys were sring , in the process of continued sorting. It's D A Y O N E, there's sorting to be done on d1...you know this. Also, sentences like "oh meta" or "oh I sr x more than y" or " you thought I was keeping up but surprise I never said I was keeping up" - just saying bare bone sentences like that , how does that help future folks in future phrases or my read of a slot that's saying that ? It DOESN'T & it's scummy.

Basically the wagon on me is this: dunn - self explanatory, you - gut, shad - sheeping you yet he is likely town. But to go further by casing me with those posts...that's just too paranoid

[Performer]

off topic:

our administration has accomplished more than any other administration in the history of our country

I think I read this online about Trump administration. Shocking to me, but eh.

I also believe our site administration is better than ever too.
-------
@carca honestly, if you haven't tr me by now and are still wanting to sheep rc, there's no way I'm changing your mind by this point. So thank you for asking me that question but I've done just about all I can in this game.

[Performer]

I also believe our site administration is better than ever too.

: ^ )

[Performer]

Nsg why exactly are you townreading me, you still never talked about that. I don't recall us ever playing together.

Town block I'm most confident on rn: carca, shad, rc, wh4t

[Performer]

Ok pg 32 interactions with eragon look like frustrated genuine town. But why are you sring me again?

[Performer]

so townreading people is scummy now rc

lol

Performer NSG is town or scum with me

It's great you say she's town but I was in a game where bbt defended me the entire game, he turned out as scum. So I can't be too careful about this. Also didn't see where she explained why I'm town to her.

[Performer]

VOTE: Carcalilly

So....after 12 days of tunneling only me, you switch to someone else out of thin air

[Performer]

Interesting. She's been sheeping a ton and putting up scummy weird posts upon an iso. Different than her game as mafia with traitor but I'm seeing why now.

Carca what's your wagon analysis.

VOTE: wh4t
That's the hammer.

[Performer]

Interesting. She's been sheeping a ton and putting up scummy weird posts upon an iso. Different than her game as mafia with traitor but I'm seeing why now.

Carca what's your wagon analysis.

VOTE: wh4t
That's the hammer.

UNVOTE:

I feel too bad

voting wh4t then the unvote because of "feel too bad"....
and complete ignoring of request for updated reads.

Intent to hammer within the hour.

[Performer]

VOTE: carcalilly

[Performer]

VOTE: wh4t

[Performer]

ugghg

(expired on 2018-10-04 06:09:00)

is there a reason not to hear from the general public? hold an nsg eulogy?

My hypothesis for nsg's death is she was chosen as a random target to throw people off because the way I see her ISO, she was all over the place in many ways. I asked her repeatedly to explain her tr on me yet she never did, so personally I'm not troubled that scum killed her, today and beyond I would've been pushing her slot.
-----------
as for wh4t, the tone of his posts and end of d1 didn't sit well with me. Looked like an agenda formation:

Let's end the day. Scum is in Era/sky/dunn imo.

Let's do this.

VOTE: Skygazer

NSG, Schadd we need you.

VOTE: cargo lily

Does this vote count?

If Carca flips red I think Performer is still her most likely buddy.

[Performer]

regarding sky - at this rate she might get replaced soon.

I find it somewhat suspect that rc is still alive. I would kill you immediately if I was scum.

[Performer]

I was still alive to endgame in the newbie

Why would this game be diff

Yes , but you kept saying you'd die yesterday and you're still alive. So, hence my "somewhat suspect." Interestingly, carca said you & dunn were her primes suspects .

[Performer]

to be fair to RC i think nsg always dies there

????

[Performer]

VOTE: Performer

I think this is scum

if you & wh4t were on a 10 ft long couch, you'd be 5 ft apart from each other

and can we get your thought process on this , since you keep on about me being scum? You do this in literally every game.

Wish I was a vengeful townie in this game, or a vig.
---------
pedit at RC: I would not

[Performer]

performer you're gnna be conftown as of tonight

That's very flattering but in a vanilla setup like this, I... don't see how that's possible.

In other news, Dunn you voting carc, getting off it when it was L-1, saying I'm scummy for no reason yet again. Even in shadd's game you were more transparent than this. In that game at least you could explain things.
If RC wasn't here, dunnstral would've been my #1 target on n1.

We also have sky who self voted a few times & pleads that this is not her scum game, and continues lurking.

[Performer]

what is "chit"

[Performer]

we both have 1 point of likelihood with wh4t as team

If that's true and if I'm understanding correctly - then....wouldn't your unvote of wh4t though you weren't even voting there, make you......the partner, if wh4t flips red?



Which means....my tr on you has been for nothing??

[Performer]

assuming wh4t does in fact flip scum, from a neutral perspective


RC: 8/28
Schadd: 1/28
Performer: 1/28
Skygazer: 4/28
Dunnstral: 9/28
Eragon: 5/28

I haven't played off probabilities in past games or this game, & I don't think anyone should be playing off probabilities....but if it's based off gameplay & meta, then yeah, wh4t & sky/dunn.

I want to hear era's two cents after he returns, as well.

[Performer]

like does dunn really come in here to us quicklynching wh4t and, like, try to vote performer?

He literally did that this day phase.
I can see that possible from scum Dunn . Him repeating that I'm scum b/c I used meta on him and because of my intro post, is such a reach .

He could contribute in a million other ways that help us read him better if he's town.

[Performer]

I've been doing iso reviews and think I know where to vote. Before that, I want to hear from everyone.

[Performer]

Prodge. Have to get to this tomorrow due to time constraints.

[Performer]

scum is (dunn/sky)

At this point, I disagree but can we get more than just that though. Why do you think this?
------------
@mod I would greatly appreciate if we knew at the signup stage if there were going to be prod limit reductions. Otherwise I would have not joined or I would end up being replaced or replacing out....just for future reference. Thanks!

[Performer]

After reviewing sky, dunn, carca, wh4t, and even my own ISO - looking like RC is the partner.

The interactions including the last post of wh4t - is condemning, including who he's pushed and how he's voted for d1 to d2.

VOTE: Radiantcowbells

[Performer]

some things:

-carca why were you making such weird posts like "rc i love that you voted me & are you afraid i'm buddying performer." made me thnk you and rc were scum theater at one point
-so much town self voting - that's a terrible thing to do & creates distrust
-when eragon stated dunn/sky/schad were scum multiple times - were there any strong pushes on eragon ??
-I got way paranoid somewhat of rc, but that wasn't why I voted him on d3
-looking back, honestly was glad nsg was killed because she didn't give me straight answer on why she had me as tr. maybe that was way of reaction testing me for a town tell though

[Performer]

-looking back, honestly was glad nsg was killed because she didn't give me straight answer on why she had me as tr. maybe that was way of reaction testing me for a town tell though

i think perhaps you should reconsider what you think of as scumtells. interested to hear why you were scumreading rc or why you think me doing that makes me likely to be scum.

nsg I am very flattered you read me well in here, which is ... rare for people who I don't play with very much or people I don't play with at all.
You scumreading rc , I didn't think that made you scummy...it was when you tr me with no explanation. And then I asked and I think I asked at least once more...I've had and seen games where scum ignore town questions and the questions are slid under the rug and not followed up on.

people who townread me and later change the read on me, and seeing people who scumread or townread others with no expansion on their thought process...many many times, that resulted in something bad for the town. without the transparency, it would be easy for scum to coast - aka what eragon did by calling dunn & sky scum on d2 iirc....unfortunately we had sudden self vote and a following vote that quickly ended the day.

[Performer]

You scumreading rc , I didn't think that made you scummy...

i don't recall scumreading RC.

people who townread me and later change the read on me, and seeing people who scumread or townread others with no expansion on their thought process...many many times, that resulted in something bad for the town. without the transparency, it would be easy for scum to coast

i don't disagree with you in principle, but i think you overstate that tell's importance. if someone never explains any of their reads that might be cause for concern - me not responding on my single read on you shouldn't really put me as your top scum suspect or even a scum suspect at all, in my opinion. i think part of the issue might be focusing too much on events as they relate specifically to you (i.e. overthinking the importance of someone not giving a reason for their read on you specifically despite them having given reasons for their reads on other people), but i could be wrong on that.

the problem is I feel like if person B doesn't focus at least a little on why person A kept townreading them
they could let person A slide into d2 and later days, without bothering why

unless you're saying each day causes reevaluation, so person B reevaluates and maybe person A starts going into why they tr person B?
....then that's ... a different story.

[Performer]

you can't complain about a self vote on a person that you were voting.

[Performer]

Interesting. I guess my thinking has always been "the rest of the player list should be disciplined enough not to speed end this day based on who we have."
But this is a very interesting lesson that I can take going forward, about the "generally you vote people when you want them to die, so you should have no qualms about someone who you were voting's death being sped up."

I don't think I ever considered it that way, I just didn't think there would be that kind of risk to consider all the time.

[Performer]

also micro queue games without prs is something that has not been sitting well with me....
I think I will stick with pr games from now on...

[Performer]

thinking of it in various situations like on d3 or in d1 in a large for instance:
if I vote someone first, I'm not always thinking " oh no there's a risk of them getting speed voting into a death within 12 hours," is what I'm saying. Sometimes I've got in the back of my mind, a door open for people listening to others and maybe even reevaluate that slot and unvote them later.