Open 737: Stack the Deck (Game Over)

[Performer]

A50 was policy I explained at the start of day 2.

When I did my first readthrough I was thinking that there was probably

a scum in enigma/Gamma, and nothing I saw d2 made me change that stance.

notice the part I bolded

^^ does scum post like this?

later referred to enigma again in this post - enigma just posted above him

RR/TW is the scum team

Change my mind.

didn't expand on this until later when I had to ask

vote:Bu

L1

flew from enigma to rr & I to bujaber.

That's why something wasn't sitting right with me about alonzo.
This is more for my notes going forward.

[Irrelephant11]

To not be rude and ignore the player I'm scumreading...
@performer I don't think we need to leash Alonzo but he should definitely tell us his targets in advance
But for that to work ruru 100% needs to BG him

pedit: Performer are you scumreading Alonzo for changing his reads? If there's more to it than that please explain

[skitter30]

1 scum died already, the only other 1 who can do an nk already did one on n2....so alonzo blocking enigma = enig town.

if he was a traitor i think he'd know that traitor!enigma could have been rb'd and that it wouldn't say anything about enigma's alignment

[Irrelephant11]

I think you're being overly gracious and assuming Performer would do/think the same as you
Based on his play so far I don't think you should make that assumption

But whatever we're arguing about whether his scumslip is groupscum or traitorscum do you townread his play at all or

[Performer]

Role Modifications
During pre-game, mafia have 72 hours to select which (if any) of the modifications they want to their team. A maximum of three modifications may be selected:

- Bulletproof
- Role Cop
- JOAT (1 shot Strongman, 1 shot Ninja)
- Daytalk (passive ability)
- Recruit Traitor as Mafia Goon

if this last option happens there's effectively 3 mafia goons (with the possibility of any of the three getting a pr if they choose them) and no traitor in effect once the game starts

scum know whether or not that's a thing but town doesn't

Yes in that post 2, scum can choose. I forgot that they could stay as 2 goon 1 traitor or become 3 goons. I went with what I remembered as the parts stating the setup had 2 mafia and a traitor.
-----------
@irrelephant his changing in reads and being noncommital to enigma, as well as claiming he blocked him on n2 , make sense to me if alonzo is fake claiming as scum. When I played with him in 2 games as town, he wasn't as noncommital.

I need to think over the ruru having to bg alonzo idea:
if town bg on scum rb, bg dies
if scum bg on town rb, rb dies
if both town, rb dies
if both scum, well damn.

actually you're right there. Never mind me idea, I agree with ruru on alonzo and alonzo designating his target.

[Irrelephant11]

........

I just lost ~1/2 my scumread after that post

though I think you actually just made a case for why it makes sense that Alonzo would roleblock enigma - it's someone he was scumreading, right? And then he dropped that scumread this game day when the roleblock failed? I'll go back and check if this is true but I'm pretty sure it is

[Performer]

Waiiiit a minute. alonzo claims to have blocked enigma n2, enigma on d3 said irrel/alonzo/buj were his sr. This was BEFORE alonzo's claim.

So , I am thinking that if enigma flips red & alonzo flips green, this means there is 3 group scum and no traitor. Because an nk still occurred on n2 despite alonzo blocking enigma.
alonzo claimed rb on enigma n2>kill still happened>if enigma flips red, 1 other scum left because of kill on n2


tr: irrel, skit, ruru based on interactions
?: buj & enigma

[Alonzo]

back from work, clearly some of you have questions, il be about for a few hours now.

[Performer]

Ok .

UNVOTE:

So alonzo did rb on enigma on n2....but there were still ways it could've failed, seeing as Creat died.
What if scum had JOAT - so they could 1-shot strongman, and used that on n2 against creat? The post 2 details in the game, say it can't be blocked.
Despite that, I am starting to see that bujaber is probably the better vote now.


Still not liking the magical addition of me into his sr list with irrelephant and me as bujaber's sr. No explanation at all after scrolling through his more recent posts. Intent to vote bujaber, but I want to hear from alonz & enigma first.

[skitter30]

I think you're being overly gracious and assuming Performer would do/think the same as you
Based on his play so far I don't think you should make that assumption

But whatever we're arguing about whether his scumslip is groupscum or traitorscum do you townread his play at all or

eh fair

i think it's a reasonable conclusion that if he's groupscum there's a traitor given how like he confused he is about this point

his posts are like really guileless tonally and i can like see him working stuff out and it doesn't feel faked to me rn

[ruru]

I don't think alonzo should telegraph his target today because it's a disaster if bujaber is town and scum recruited traitor, not to mention it gives scum more information on who to shoot

alonzo is living tomorrow to claim tonight's target unless he roleblocks me so there's no benefit in telegraphing

(and if I'm scum somehow thinking solo pushing for massclaim a day early and fakeclaiming bg is a good idea, then I'm shooting someone other than alonzo tonight 100% of the time anyway)

[Alonzo]

What did you want to hear from me ?

@performer?

[ruru]

okay I guess I'll ask this now:

I'm starting to wonder if the remaining scum are a certain pair in here.

do you tend to make this kind of statement as town?

[Performer]

I don't think alonzo should telegraph his target today because it's a disaster if bujaber is town and scum recruited traitor, not to mention it gives scum more information on who to shoot

alonzo is living tomorrow to claim tonight's target unless he roleblocks me so there's no benefit in telegraphing

(and if I'm scum somehow thinking solo pushing for massclaim a day early and fakeclaiming bg is a good idea, then I'm shooting someone other than alonzo tonight 100% of the time anyway)

This requires a great deal of trust in alonzo - I see what you mean though. Thanks for the explanation - I am in agreement with this move instead, for alonzo about not revealing his rb target.

Also, I was wondering if it was skitter & enigma in my 2688 - but that is no longer valid. I now am thinking it's buj & one other person whose ISO revealed catching up, doing iioa posts today, not voting buj but voting you after your reveal, and even wanting alonz/me/GE (green flip) to die.

A lot of my town meta is thinking out loud to process things.

[Performer]

What did you want to hear from me ?

@performer?

can you go into the timeline of your scumreads and actions? What exactly happened?

[Alonzo]

sure

[ruru]

Also, I was wondering if it was skitter & enigma in my 2688 - but that is no longer valid. I now am thinking it's buj & one other person whose ISO revealed catching up, doing iioa posts today, not voting buj but voting you after your reveal, and even wanting alonz/me/GE (green flip) to die.

A lot of my town meta is thinking out loud to process things.

I guess I was asking specifically about not naming names

[ruru]

Ways to discern whether or not Performer is scum:
-He'll mess around, probably in a subtle way

-You get the feeling that he's purposefully being mysterious
-He'll fake confusion

-He'll poke at random posts
-He's brief
-He lurks

the reason I ask is that the bolded are pinging me somewhat:
- you do sound purposefully mysterious with some of your scumreads
- I don't specifically think your confusion about the setup is fake, but it's hard for me to evaluate. part of why I don't want the day to end yet is that I'd like to see what your posting is like

after

you've figured out all the setup stuff or whatever

so I'm wondering whether confidential scumreads are part of your mysterious-town-range

[skitter30]

is the above supposed to describe his town or scum game?

[Alonzo]

I'm town, I was gonna deathtunnel A50 today, so I need to re read and come up with a plan B

I was super cocksure A50 was scum on my first re read. 100%. Ended up having to re read alot of the thread again

VOT: THE WORST

you cheeky duck

Semi serious at this point. Like Hello I see you.

See anything in Vexys Iso worth a SR?

Did share his VV read.

VOTE:GAMMA

Thought gamma was being opportunistic when he voted TW, this vote combined with my initial thoughts on Gamma from re reading cemented him as my push for the day.

Hi I'm here to ensure scum ain't got nothing on town

mic drop

This is softer than a Mister Whippy Ice cream on a hot Hampshire afternoon. I love it!

so what is this baiting me then if not to inflate your ego?

I want to make Enigma a TR but its quite hard.

why has this game stalled .... ?

i have like nothing new to say

sure, let's see what happens if i vote VOTE: alonzo

Boredom vote?

How are me and Ejji a team here skitter?

Really dislike this play from Skitter. -In fact the whole ruru skitter dynamic in this one feels off, and I'm left TR'ing ruru more than skitter here so far.
I wasn't keen on a mass claim, but it makes sense for ruru to want it as both alignments as a wandering BG. If I die tonight ruru's Scum! gambit paid off I guess.
I feel like Skitter has carved a niche hoovering up after ruru in this one and the talk about 'if we are both still alive at lylo' smells like skitter thinking moves ahead, whilst claiming the game is stale at other points.

@Alonzo can you give one-word reads on {tw, bujaber, gamma, ejji, enigma}? just post them asap if you can and explain later

TLDR
sky/TW null-scum
bluJ/AH- Town lean
Gamma-scum lean
Frank/Ejji-Slow start but null-town
enigma-Town lean

While im here

ruru-Town lean
VV town lean

Wanna rr skitter before I complete that read.

Why do you have no strong reads

Creature/Alonzo
VV/ruru
bluJ/Enigma
TW
Gamma

I usually get my reads from alot of reaction tests in the early game, but as a sub in I dont have that luxury.

I find it interesting that gamma suddenly got the votes once I moved my vote away...

but honestly it could be any combo at this point.

I think Irrelephantts looked super town, Il check my notepad wen i'm back to it and see what my read was on their pred.

Ruru seems kinda random in their timings, Korina has mellowed from their early style, Tw is Tw. I just cant read this guy as either alignment.

Im fairly sure I townleaned buJ early on.

Still uncertain of skitter.

So yeah Im devoid of reads.

Why Enigma?

I'v put alot of reading hours into this thread.

BuJ has never been a solid TR for me, a green flip(RN) and almost certain skitter is the !deepscum. But her posts in the meantime are snappy and on point so its hard for me to really articulate a true read.

Performer/TW is another slot with alot of question marks. Cant read Either of you well at all.

[skitter30]

smells like skitter thinking moves ahead, whilst claiming the game is stale at other points.

that's kinda just how i play tho; i always think multiple dayphases ahead, as both alignments

you can see that in the scum pt of pick your poison x|y when i had mylo roughly planned out on day4

and i've had pretty much this exact convo before as town (in my second game here)

Subject: Newbie 1797: Space | Endgame

@skitter, if you don't mind, can you give me links to your homesite and completed games as both alignments?

I want to see an example of you thinking with a bunch of contingencies.

You only seem to have completed one game as scum here.

viewtopic.php?p=10285293#p10285293
and here's an example of working through like every possible outcome

[Alonzo]

How confident are you in rurus BuJ read?

[skitter30]

~6/10

not super confident but more confident than i am in anyone else tho

[Performer]

Ways to discern whether or not Performer is scum:
-He'll mess around, probably in a subtle way

-You get the feeling that he's purposefully being mysterious
-He'll fake confusion

-He'll poke at random posts
-He's brief
-He lurks

the reason I ask is that the bolded are pinging me somewhat:
- you do sound purposefully mysterious with some of your scumreads
- I don't specifically think your confusion about the setup is fake, but it's hard for me to evaluate. part of why I don't want the day to end yet is that I'd like to see what your posting is like

after

you've figured out all the setup stuff or whatever

so I'm wondering whether confidential scumreads are part of your mysterious-town-range

Whoa whoa whoa let me stop you right there ruru, and provide a disclaimer - this is from 2 years ago so that wiki is somewhat old so therefore not as reliable. tictac did the same in a completed game by referring to the wiki . And him and I were town in that game.

I haven't come across a need to update the wiki so I left it as is when I took a break from FM. Interestingly it's looking like I may have to update it as people are using it to read me.

As for why I withheld my fos on 2 folks earlier, that was to see if anything substantial would come out of it, anything that could keep generating discussion that could help us win.

As for confusion, yes I am like everyone else in that I get confused about things too. But I've been seriously trying to figure things out like everyone else.

[skitter30]

Ways to discern whether or not Performer is scum:
-He'll mess around, probably in a subtle way

-You get the feeling that he's purposefully being mysterious
-He'll fake confusion

-He'll poke at random posts
-He's brief
-He lurks

the reason I ask is that the bolded are pinging me somewhat:
- you do sound purposefully mysterious with some of your scumreads
- I don't specifically think your confusion about the setup is fake, but it's hard for me to evaluate. part of why I don't want the day to end yet is that I'd like to see what your posting is like

after

you've figured out all the setup stuff or whatever

so I'm wondering whether confidential scumreads are part of your mysterious-town-range

oh i didn't realize that was from his wiki

i wouldn't describe his behavior like that this game much at all