Micro 824.2: Grand Idea Mafia (The Reroll) [Finish]

[nonny]

Not really sure what’s going on so going to VOTE: Invisibility

[nonny]

Why so serious Scoobert?

Singletonking how is Dr unaware of the super VT if he just talked about the super VT?

[nonny]

Oh I think I phrased it badly

I mean it looked like Dr got new information when mod announced the super VT. Town will be less surprised than scum because all the town will have rolled VT. Scum don’t have advanced warning of this.

I’m still not sure I get it. Can you phrase it as a hypothetical scenario?

[nonny]

It’s posisble that scum could be thrown off by the super VT but it’s also possible in this kind of game to be less black and white as that. Such as a neutral role with its own win objective, as we already saw possible in the 1.0 run of this game. So feel Singleton is being opprutunistic but running that small thing up as a scumtell.

[nonny]

Definitely getting townvibes from Irrelephant now. On the other hand, I don't like how nonny expressed a scumread on me but didn't vote me.

UNVOTE: DDL
VOTE: nonny

Enigma also gives me weird vibes that could be scum as well.

opportunistic = scumread?
Also, you’re continuing to be opportunistic. Did you not like the attention?

I’m good with my vote and will move it if I see anything more solid. I’ve never been one to throw a vote around.

[nonny]

I definitely interpret accusations of being opportunistic as being scummy. Why are people saying otherwise?

Doing something scummy =/= scumread. If town never did scummy things this game would be a lot easier. I’ll also say again, this game won’t be that black and white given the variety of possible wincons in play.

Though now with another vote jump I’m starting to slight scumread you. Not enough to change vote yet though.

[nonny]

town irrelephant is aggressive - this irrelephant reads more cautious, idk

Do you have an example you can link? Have you see irrelephant’s scum game to compare too?

Personally not a fan of meta dives, feels premature to rely on meta but want examples if you are going to use it.

[nonny]

Nope, it's serious. Don't you guys remember that I was mafia with Scoobert in first game? He knew we did not have a daychat. The only reason for asking that can be for clearing themselves.

Okay, this feels better. The push did feel awkward.

The alt postings are throwing me off lol

[nonny]

BTW Nonny is a town

May be weird for me to question this but wondering where it came from?

Will have better in depth post tomorrow, had crazy work week. Do we have a deadline preset in this set up?

[nonny]

Oh that's a really good boyo.

This posting style is just how Invis plays, I had issue with it the first time I played with him but it seems to be his meta.

I think it's less that he's coasting and more that he doesn't have solid reads as of yet.

Singleton Im not following you at all. From your perspective there has to be one scum between myself, Scoobert, and drDoolittle. I don't get your pokes towards Nonny or Invis and I would assume Vax is next on that list. None of it is producing content and just comes off as weak scumhunting.

I think it was nonny that said there is one between Scoobert and Singleton and I'd take that bet.

Agree with most of this. Last part was RC I think actually.
Vis is posting very much like vis.

[nonny]

Facepalm. Guess Rc didn’t misremember himself, didn’t connect the dots it was RC that I quoted. Did you change your avatar RC?

Singleton Vis plays similar as scum and town. It’s just his style of posting. Down the line he will post more but still never wall posts *shrug*
newbie 1883 town
newbie 1880 scum

[nonny]

What do you guys thinking about Vaxkiller?

Can’t remember anything specifically about them without looking. Don’t like that. Activity does not stand out at all.

[nonny]

This wagon feels artificial. Not sure fully why but it’s weird how it developed. Looking at vaxkiller’s iso though I don’t like it, too many early breadcrumb claims which always feel purposeful. Never see legit VT’s needing to discuss how VT they are from page 2 on.

Will weigh in more if needed. Not sure pressure will do much given vax response on page 9.

My reread/wall post won’t be happening yet due to Irl stuff. Feel like this game went from goofing around noncontent to 100% real very suddenly, not even sure where it shifted but need to review with the new context

[nonny]

VOTE: singletonking

I feel like he is going to start trying to fabricate some shit here.

How about you build a case on stuff he has actually done instead of stuff you are guessing he’ll do?

So far he’s been opportunistic but show me where he has “fabricated some shit” to justify this prediction?

[nonny]

@irrelphant: nako simply asked what people thought about vax and then suddenly he had a wagon. Those voting vac had no thoughts to do so before nako asked about him. It felt artificial how it rolled out.

Also, nako may be confirmed town but that doesn’t mean he has any more information than the rest of us, which is something to keep in mind.

Given this was re-rolled and most likely the roles stayed the same we probably have 2 scum and the cult Korina mentioned. The super VT wasn’t brought up in v.1 but day one was so quick it possibly got overlooked, so most likely everyone besides those 4 are VT. (Then the roles RC and Vis had in v.1, which I believe were neutral)

[nonny]

Post 144 Irrelephant post scum lean on Vax
Post 172 Singleton alludes to Vax
Post 187 Singleton puts Vax at null (I think if i'm reading his list right)
Post 212 Nako asks what we think of Vax
216 and 217 Vis and DrD say they'll vote Vax or are scum reading Vax respectfully
Post 222 Scoobert votes Vax
226 single lays seed about voting Vax, and 227 Vis votes this "sound wagon"
231 Nako votes Vax
232 I say the wagon feels artificial.

I went back to page 6 and that's all the stuff I saw mentioning vax prior to Nako bringing him up. Nako, was your intention to start a wagon. Were you scumreading Vax when you brought him up? I just feel like more information could be had from this whole thing.

This wagon feels artificial. Not sure fully why but it’s weird how it developed. Looking at vaxkiller’s iso though I don’t like it, too many early breadcrumb claims which always feel purposeful. Never see legit VT’s needing to discuss how VT they are from page 2 on.

Will weigh in more if needed. Not sure pressure will do much given vax response on page 9.

My reread/wall post won’t be happening yet due to Irl stuff.

Feel like this game went from goofing around noncontent to 100% real very suddenly, not even sure where it shifted but need to review with the new context

There's three votes on vax, one of which is the IC. What part of the wagon feels artificial? This is kinda textbook scum defending scum, but I think I maybe townread you before this. Hm...
I don't really feel the bolded - what made you say this?

Was just the feeling, re: game flow, probably left over from v.1 of this game. Other question explained above and below.

I'm pretty certain this isn't the same setup as last game if super vt didn't show up last game??

I understand that Nako is conftown, but I'm asking

which

vote(s) on vax is artificial, specifically? It can't be Nako because you know they're town. So who are you pointing the finger at, if vax's wagon is made up of enough scum for the wagon to be fake?

The super VT this time wasn't confirmed until Nako asked mod about it, I already pointed out with how quick the lynch happened day 1 of v.1 it could have just not been mentioned yet.

I didn't say any votes were specifically artificial. The way the wagon rolled out felt artificial. There are more motivations then just scum/town, I'm not sure which is in play and not confidant enough to say which at this point. I was merely commenting on the fact that how it developed felt off or odd. Though I'm used to vis wagon chasing from other games with him. Nako just asking thoughts on that player and then suddenly there is a wagon was weird. Also, stands out Singleton isn't on it since his other play to this point has been opportunistic and freely voting where ever the wind blows.

@Nonny

No, I think we were all thinking that Vax is pretty shady and needs to contribute before that? Did you not see that too?

Also, Nonny your thing about it being the same roles doesn't make any sense to me. You weren't scum last time, so you would have automatically known if the Super VT was involved?

Where? Show me where this shade was because I did not see many mentions at all. Only real thing was him thinking mafia is now vanilla too and being corrected. Even in your ISO only mention of vax was putting him at null and congratulating him on his new house.

Would have only known if I had a PR that was taken away, and I didn't, I was VT prior. Not really sure how that works. Just mean it's most likely the whole set-up wasn't re-done. Mod didn't confirm the super VT until nako claimed it, so that may trigger the role as well.

Yeah town vax cares about the game and tries to solve it, even it means their own lynch. But this vax did not do anything except for towncrediting themselves.

This makes sense.

VOTE: singletonking

I feel like he is going to start trying to fabricate some shit here.

How about you build a case on stuff he has actually done instead of stuff you are guessing he’ll do?

So far he’s been opportunistic but show me where he has “fabricated some shit” to justify this prediction?

Vax I would like to see a response here, wasn't rhetorical.

[nonny]

huh nonny so you think vax is town?

Meh not necessarily. I’m slightly less than null on him. If he does flip green I feel it’s worth looking at the wagon (excluding conftown obv).


Singleton: what’s your obsession with Jester roles? That’s atleast your 3-4th time mentioning it or trying to apply it to someone.

[nonny]

nonny is invis still your top scumread

Nope. Never was a scum read. Just best place to have my vote for now. Will move it if I see reason to.

Singleton also said they thought RCE might be Jestet as well. Each instance stands out because the players aren’t actually doing much Jester like things “you keep using that word, I don’t think it means what you think it means”

[nonny]

I'm not defending singleton's use of the word in this particular situation, I'm just saying I think you're remembering wrong when you say it's single's 3-4th time bringing up the jester role. It's his first, I think.

Who's your biggest scumread?

It’s possible, don’t have time to go back through iso’s currently to check.

Have a couple scumleans but nothing I’m confidant in yet. Can post more about it after work

[nonny]

nonny why do you have your vote on not a scumread?

Already said I'd move my vote if/when I see reason to *shrug* currently don't see anything worth changing and vis is not currently at risk for a lynch so what difference does it make? I generally do not vote hop, it's not my style.
(who are you though?)

Vax's current reaction looks like either trapped scum or frustrated town, still unconvinced either way. Not saying he's a bad lynch just pretty sure we can try to narrow down to a better one or atleast get some more content in to work with day 2.

[nonny]

I just don’t want to vote there for now.

why is that

Eh idk, while I am scumreading him I somehow have bad feelings about voting him, like my gut. Or maybe it's my lack of confidence kicking in.

And theres also a 5% where I was thinking that given how Vax was so blatantly scummy I was worried he might be Jester, but it's not something I'm decently convinced of myself.

This kind of interaction. From my perspective it looks like you're feigning hesitation because of the flip and you want more people to come forward with scumreads on Vax before you dip into the pool yourself. What is it exactly that influenced you to vote now when you didn't in 276?

Very much agree with this. Even more with Singletons backing down in 349.

@irrelephant: noted, not ignoring the question had busy day at work yesterday and crashed when I got home. Will post on my reads tonight when I’m at computer and can pull quotes better.

[nonny]

I don’t see it as a townslip either. It’s just bad logic. Scum typically try to be the L-2 or 3 vote to avoid suspicion. Scum rarely hammer because it does draw attention.

[nonny]

nonny what do you think of vax's hard townread of you?

Hard townreads like that always make me nauseous. Town should never be that sure of anyone. Worst care it’s buddying best case it’s just squeezing a read and sucking the life out of it.

[nonny]

Nope, I still wanna hammer. Intent to do so after nonny gives the reads we've been waiting on. If you're jumping ship, now's the time to do so.

I'm working on this now. Feeling performance anxiety with this hanging over it though, never said it'd be the shakespeare of reads though

[nonny]

check the mod thread of .1

I scanned it, what am I looking for? I did note there was no "super VT" in v.1 so most likely new roles were part of the reroll? Didn't think the threads to v.1 would be open honestly (also didn't know how to look for them )

Why is 349 scummy, considering Vax actually started playing the game?

To be clear, I was scumreading Vax since he posted "ooh pressure a VT"

Because nothing vax said was really reading town. The more he talked the more he looked like the right lynch. So you going from "yeah I might vote this guy" to suddenly "never mind, just kidding, he's town" stood out. How do you go from

Spoiler: This

But at the same time, I intend to hammer Vax if he does not show up with good stuff.

I am quite confident on him being scum based on his play.

I would like to see what he has to say first, as in what he promised in 302.

Spoiler: to this

Also Vax I'm starting to think you could be town here so please post more.

When what vax posted was minimal in the least.

Overall feel like Singleton is doing 2 steps forward and 1 step back in every post, like carefully conveying what he wants his motivation to look like. He says he like to poke at people to get AI but once the poking bring attention to himself then he drops it or says "nvm i'm not scumreading them any more", it's very cautious but looks like trying to start snowballs on people. Singleton is my top scumread

like to me, my main issue with BnL (Single) this game is that

A) It really seems like you're doing nothing to solve the game
B) It seems like as soon as somebody questions your kind of shoddy reasoning, you just pull out altogether and try to redirect it

This actually sums up how I feel on Singleton, wording might be more clear.

Also Vax I'm starting to think you could be town here so please post more.

Screws what up?

Honestly the more vax posts the more okay I feel with him being the lynch. Nothing stands out as helpful or trying to sort. Mostly appeals to emotion or guilt but no real cases on any one. If you think the wagon is bad or misguided wouldn't that force you to look for which scum is leading it? He does try one case on singleton but doesn't push it very hard. Overall odd and at this point feels like if he's not the lynch there will be the continued question mark over him on day 2.

Only thing that stands out on Scoobert is asking about the mafia daytalk. Overall content seemed good. Aeronaut hasn't given enough yet to see if the spot is still above null or not.

Vis I can usually never read until it's too late.
RCE seems proactive but not sure all the pushes are in the best directions. Slightly above null for now.
Nako no need to comment
DDL needs to post more, most the content is low. Disagree with him on 229 and 347, the latter of which I've commented on already, slightly below null.

It takes a lot for me to move someone away from null, it's just how I play and sort. Everyone else right now is different degrees of null.

[nonny]

VOTE: Vaxkiller

[nonny]

L-1 on vax, forgot to include

[nonny]

(who are you though?)

I'm Aeronaut, Scoobert is just my alt. I sorta ruined it though by slipping (was supposed to be secret), so w/e I'll just play as me!

Okay, had a guess but wasn't sure. The "replacement" makes more sense now.

Yea, so Singleton's progression makes no sense to me, really at all. It's like he's just giving opinions to stick with what the group is doing, most notably the above two posts where he really contradicts himself quite a bit. In 312, he's struggling to find strong reads, to the point where his best read is that he 'thinks' he scumreads Invis. Just one post later, he is 'quite confident' in Vax being scum.

My issue with that is that A) the progression doesn't even exist, and B) he's just setting himself up to make the hammer and then tomorrow have deniability since his reads have been so unsure the whole game.

Agree with this on singleton.

UNVOTE: vax Honestly wanted to see if he'd give up the hard town read or how he'd react if I voted him.
Still feel he's a question mark. But more confidant in read on singleton. Not voting quite yet though.

[nonny]

Singleton is all over the place. Really don’t get how Aero asking for a read list effects a read on invis. The exchange over the last few pages is just odd. I’m more comfortable in a Singleton lynch then a vax at this point. Though wish vax would post more, going silent doesn’t look good.

VOTE: Singleton

L-1 I believe

[nonny]

Was coming to post about v/la but guess won't matter if we are in night....Just in case

I'm going to be somewhat limited access this weekend due to a work conference but should be able to post atleast once a day.

mod v/la until 10/1

[nonny]

Ok nonny not saying more game relevant stuff in twilight is kinda scummy

Nothing to say yet. Seen lynches lie about their flip. Don't know anything new at this point *shrug*

[nonny]

Uhm...are we allowed to look at his PT? I mean.....that feels like it should still be private? Won't it say who he targeted?

[nonny]

I just checked and the links go to the main site.

Just wasn't sure.

[nonny]

I’m confused, where does it say the kill backfired if it’s an informed group? All I read is the recruitment fails.

[nonny]

VOTE: Nonny

I kind of just want to do this

I kind of want to ask why?

[nonny]

Does them failing not mean they die?

Not sure, feel it’s not 100% clear. I read it as they just fail to recruit them.

[nonny]

Catching up and will do fuller post soon, have had crazy work week.

Also feel like dumbass this whole time I thought you guys were saying IC (inexpierenced challanged) not IC (innocent child) thought it was weird but never clarified because I didn’t want to look like a n00b lol

[nonny]

Outside of that I haven't seen anything that says you're town...except well, you saying you're town. That said you're the weakest read in my poe.

What are your other reads in POE?

Like Ive been at L1 for a while now. If nonny were scum they could just vote me and end the day.

Nako is the IC so hes not scum and aero has a slight town read on me (I think) so if Aero is scum he kinda painted himself into a corner here, because he just has to wait it out and hope nako or nonny votes for me. So who does that leave for scum if nako/nonny/aero are town? Someone on my wagon!

So I'm not scum because I didn't hammer but Aero!scum would avoid being the hammer? You know that's not a really strong statistic, scum aren't the only one that hammer, it's a known scumtell to the point of being WIFOM and no longer valid.

Okay, first impressions: Vax has been put to L-1 both days. Clearly something fishy is going on there. Reading my counterparts ISO made me almost think I wasn't a confirmed townie. And they were the hammer, so I cant figure out scum from the first lynch. That's shit.

snip

Questions need to be asked: how many of you hung single purely because the IC said so? And who made her think it was a good idea? A good scum strat is basically pocketing the IC to do whatever you want.

Welcome! And Nako actually pointed a big FoS at vax which started that wagon day1.

rcs town
elephant town

Why only 2(4) of 7? Feels like holding back in a way.

Spoiler: math

2 quoted + 1 yourself + 1 vax = 4 but maybe should be 5 for IC *shrug*

[nonny]

Like RCE’s analysis at this stage. Want to see more of the outsider perspective from Elsa but she’s waiting for vax so...more waiting?

[nonny]

RB I don’t see becuaee why would scum RB someone they are killing. Or would the SK night action go through even if NK?

[nonny]

I still think there were 2 scum on my wagon.

Where's the certainty of >2 scum existing?

All we know for sure is there is atleast one role with a non town aligned wincon, right? Or else the game would be over. Is there any benefit to a mass claim?

[nonny]

Still feel like Vax blew me off without getting back to my question too.

That plus his wagon being at L-1 for such an extended time does stand out as odd.

I think RCE's reasoning for DrD shooting at one of me/you/nonny makes some sense
DrD's kill didn't go through which means he may have successfully recruited someone
It wasn't me, and you're playing just like the last game day while nonny is noticeably quieter
that leaves nonny to be on the inquisitor team now - idk how she survived the kill but there's 101 options as to how, so

Even if she didn't get recruited I think that just points to her being on a scumteam of some kind

Also a smaller but significant reason is I'm curious what will happen if I sheep Aero

Apparently sheeping Aero leads to a non game advancing prod-dodge.
Yes, I am quieter this game day but it's not game related *shrug* working too much OT at work and spread too thin currently but also keep telling myself i'll be able to participate more.

i wonder if scum SK read DRD?
i mean it kinda makes sense he probably was playing like a third party and scum thought that meant sk.

Did anyone besides Vis see this from DrD? I'm possibly aloof but did not pick up "3rd" party vibes, want to litmus it to see if anyone else did.

Out of the 3 I think rcengima and invis have the best chance of flipping scum, i want to dive deeper into their isos this weekend. BUt i leave this here for now:
VOTE: rcenigma

Hey, it was the weekend, sorry

You can't hide behind the weekend while promising a post on the weekend. Where is this elusive post, vax?

[nonny]

Okay but like
It could be 4v1v1v1 right now
Am I the only one playing GIM?

Right, was asking him to see if the certainty comes from a slip or from naïveté.

I don’t know GiM enough but assume we can’t have 0 non-town/scum roles, unless there’s a draw mechanic which would be weird.

VOTE: vaxkiller

[nonny]

... Any relevant info someone wants to bring up or are we silent because we just want to be?

Feel like we’ve just stalled. Another flip may help flesh things out but really not confidant enough to push strongly. Most likely day 4 is lylo, but that’s potentional regardless of today’s lynch maybe?

[nonny]

Agree and like first half of 674.

Bad timing but I will be modified v/la this weekend, mobile only going out of town to ride roller coasters.

Noted
-Kor

[nonny]

So your strategy after hanging the wrong dude is... To hang the other one we skipped?

Want to see Viz’s answer to this.

[nonny]

Would a mass claim be helpful at this stage? Or a “vanilla” or “not vanilla” mass claims?

[nonny]

I’m neutral. I’m a lyncher. I’m failing at it but am not scum/town.

[nonny]

UNVOTE:

Even more interesting.

Who's your target?

Invisibility. I gave up slightly after day one. Day 3 tried to iso dive and make a case but couldn’t do it becuase they look like they are playing their towngame. Hence I’m totally failing. Even vented at mod, no response obviously, that I’m sucking at my wincon.

[nonny]

Lol
Personally I don’t believe it

Because...?

If you go back to day 1 you’ll see my confusion on the super VT and insistance there may be other unaffected roles such as neutral roles. Then you’ll see me shoot myself in the foot when I agree viz is playing town like *headesk* this is my first non vt in a long time and I got caught up trying to game solve instead of just working my wincon.

[nonny]

Because you were L-1 when you claimed

I was the one who suggested the mass claim. Suggested day 2 as well iirc and would have gladly claimed first but everyone just went for it before I logged on to game again. The L-1 occurred in that time as well. Any other reason besides the easy shade?

[nonny]

I believe the front page says that there could possibly be no scum.

I would hope scum wouldn’t post about confusion over the super VT, and I would hope if I was scum I’d be smarter than that.

[nonny]

Honestly I doubt irrelephant would gambit a neutral vs just claiming VT.

[nonny]

At this point...
VOTE: Invisibility
For Elsa’s question kind of 4/10 at this stage

[nonny]

mod I’m also voting vis

No idea how I missed your vote, this has been fixed.
-Kor

[nonny]

Woohoo. Great.

Nonny, does your wincon make you leave the game or does it end it?

Because if it's the former, then I'm happy to at least have more people win.

If it's the latter, then you and elephant will be the only winners and I fuck over the cult.

It's a win-win situation for me.

If vis is lynched I leave the game as a joint winner, think joint is just if anyone else reaches wincon.


Hello Akira. We don’t have any reason to see the neutral vig as truthful except it would have been easier as scum to just claim VT given the super Vt claim. Also apologize in advance you are join a game that has gone towards apathy a little, speaking for myself but sure most everyone agrees.

[nonny]

So if viz is lynched then I leave the game and you are down to 4, night phase you possibly loose 1 if someone lied, and enter day 4 with 3-4 alive. Most likely only 1 scum/nontown roll with how game has gone (could be wrong) but lowers pool significantly.

Or maybe we lynch viz and I win and that’s last wincon to be fulfilled so the game ends? *shrug*

[nonny]

The last part was half joking. Also, just as note that link for the role from last game is not the exact role in this game, last game was lucky enough to have more flavor.

The lyncher being in last game too is why I didn’t think korina made whole new roles from the previous game, but now see even mine is slightly variant.

[nonny]

Hmm interesting. Thanks for modding Korina.

Elsa you were totally right about the cult lol.

[nonny]

Also, @Nonny, I actually fully rerolled the game as well.
It's merely coincidence that a lyncher appeared twice, in addition to cult.

Yeah I see that now ;p really assumed at first it was just re-randomizing the roles so changed how i played day 1 vs later. Sorry I was super lazy this game. Glad i won in the end though

[nonny]

Dunno if it was possible to form a wagon on RC... (Irreleph would've been hard)

Anyways fun game, I like the setup

Thanks Korina!

Hard to wagon someone not in game

Nah, you're easy to wagon, silly things like rolecards don't matter