Micro 824.2: Grand Idea Mafia (The Reroll) [Finish]

[Irrelephant11]

VOTE: RCEnigma
Worked great last time

[Irrelephant11]

VOTE: singleton
Not seeing what you're seeing about DDL, kinda sounds like you're making it up

@Nako I think only the Super VT gets "all town roles are now vt" in their role pm

@RCE why did you self vote?

[Irrelephant11]

@Nako I think only the Super VT gets "all town roles are now vt" in their role pm

Oh duh the super vt is you
nvm

@singleton, seems like everyone learned something new about the setup when the super vt announcement was made... why is it scummy for DDL in particular? Sounds like you're projecting how you felt (as scum) onto him

[Irrelephant11]

Who's the "both"? Singleton and..?

[Irrelephant11]

I agree that nonny should vote you

[Irrelephant11]

Lol Nako is confirmed town

[Irrelephant11]

Nako is there anyone you want to wagon
I will sheep the IC

[Irrelephant11]

Anyone know if town gets our PRs back if/when Nako flips?

[Irrelephant11]

I guess we don't know that we have any PRs anyway...
Welp, singleton remains my scummiest read until prods come back

[Irrelephant11]

I'm thinking we let whatever scum kill the IC and see if we get power back at that point
Don't wanna lynch the only conftown
And if scum decide not to kill the IC then we keep a conftown, great

[Irrelephant11]

why am I getting jester vibes from RCE all over again

[Irrelephant11]

Sorry I forgot this game existed for a minute
DDL read on me is outta nowhere, but I’ll wait to hear an explanation

I’m townreading most of the playerlist which is either a very good thing or very concerning
I stillllll want a singleton lynch I think?
But I’m on mobile so I’ll re-read and figure out if that’s true tomorrow

[Irrelephant11]

like to me, my main issue with BnL (Single) this game is that

A) It really seems like you're doing nothing to solve the game
B) It seems like as soon as somebody questions your kind of shoddy reasoning, you just pull out altogether and try to redirect it

this is how I felt about singleton at the time and still mostly how I feel

If you’re saying that you didn’t like my reads because they were too generic, that’s because I’m tired right now. I’m recollecting pings I got earlier when I wrote them. If you want I can explain them better tomorrow.

this is super lame excuse giving that I see from scum way more than town
Not that town can't say this but in context it feels uncalled for, except as an excuse for scumminess
80 - Feels like hedging reads, both previous and in advance
68 - @Nonny You feel sorta distant from this game... Gonna ISO you. Nevermind I've liked your posts so far I just forgot some

Okay, good explanation. I slightly townread you for that.

Was it that good of an explanation? I can see losing a scumread, but moving nonny up to a townread? hmm.
89 from Scooby is towny imo
108 from singleton comes across completely fake, and I'm surprised anyone liked that post. "awkward", "progression" (without explanation), "flow". These keywords mean nothing without any real analysis of "why".

town irrelephant is aggressive - this irrelephant reads more cautious, idk

This is fair, I'm a lot more casual this game because there's a good chance this is a lolsetup

town irrelephant is aggressive - this irrelephant reads more cautious, idk

Do you have an example you can link? Have you see irrelephant’s scum game to compare too?

Personally not a fan of meta dives, feels premature to rely on meta but want examples if you are going to use it.

He and I played a mini normal together recently - viewtopic.php?f=2&t=76996
Is it really that important to you to verify his meta read? This seems like a strong reaction, though if you just generally dislike meta reads that might be all it is

@Korina

Would a hypothetical Scum team have daytalk?

It's funny that you are asking this

Maybe it's just
VOTE: Scoobert D Doobert

hmmmmm he was probably my towniest read before this

@Korina

Would a hypothetical Scum team have daytalk?

It's funny that you are asking this

Maybe it's just
VOTE: Scoobert D Doobert

people ask this like, all the time

truuu

Hmm actually I hadn't considered that it wouldn't be tied to the setup and would have to come from one of the mafia roles itself.

I actually like that read a lot more now

VOTE: Scoobert

I guess I can bump you back up to confirmed town in my list Nako...for now.

This is what I mean by RCE being jester-y. Not sure what kind of wincon he has but he seems intent on being read as "silly" or "confusing"
138 @ RCE, You have multiple issues with scoobert so far? Watching this.

Anyway the "I was legitamately curious" sounds fake, so
UNVOTE: DrDoLittle
VOTE: Scoobert D Doobert

L-1

this is actually a fair read
but also this vote feels pretty opportunistic

[Irrelephant11]

Nako is town
Scoobert is leantown
nonny is leantown
DDL is leantown, his read on me is accurate which gives me confidence he's genuinely hunting
invis is null, but he can be town if I have to pick
Singleton is scumlean
vaxkiller has mostly speculated on setup? and then also voted scoobert when the wagon started. scumlean

RCE is ???

[Irrelephant11]

the Nako thing
re:Scoobert it's up to you

[Irrelephant11]

I guess I'm not really jester-reading your insistence it was a joke...
But when I do feel like you don't want to be read correctly, if that makes sense.
At the same time, I don't see much of a scum agenda in your posts
So idk still what to read you as

[Irrelephant11]

I do think scoobert was the first to scumread singleton

[Irrelephant11]

He's town except for the thing where he asked about daychat
I can't decide whether or not I believe he forgot
But I liked his play and lightly mindmelded with his reads early on
So leantown, like I just recently posted

[Irrelephant11]

Hi am here!
Sorry I'm slightly overgamed and [redacted] so I had this on backburner
I'll catchup quick

[Irrelephant11]

176 - At this point I'm pretty sure you've scumcased like half the playerlist? @single
181 - @single are you saying you're scumcasing people just to get AI content from them?

If you scumread both doc and Scoobert, I scumread yourself and/or Scoobert, doc and Scoobert scumread you then there is a parallel at some point. There is absolutely no way that all town are pushing for these lynches and only these, spewing the rest of the slots is town.

Sorry, I’m still not sure I understand this

Like are you saying that among people who mutually scumread each other, at least one must be scum? Because that’s definitely not true.

And also my new reads have changed and not all my scumreads are of the same strength. I think now, they are something like

Town
Irrelephant11
Nonny, RCE
Vaxkiller
DDL
Invisibility, Scooby
Scum

Also let’s not forget that despite the Super VT this is still GIM, so it may not be 2:7 and probably isn’t.

Is vax still null? I see he's the biggest wagon
Also why am I your top townread? Not sure I've seen you explain that
single/invis conversation makes invis look townier and singleton look reachier. idk maybe it's just tone but it feels like he's grasping at straws, and not just poking to get content, either. 203 especially feels like "well I said I was scumreading you so I'm just gonna keep pretending to be paranoid for a bit now that the case has fallen through"

This was probably my favorite back and forth, Invis is probably just town here.

agreed

What do you guys thinking about Vaxkiller?

i iso'd vax and he's actually been kinda active lurky
might vote there next

Good vote

hmm I still think irrelephant is my biggest scum read

Did you read my response to your single reason for wanting to vote me (meta)? Do you care about why that doesn't apply here?

Vaxkiller is another scum read.

eh this is fair but also really easy to say at this point.

Singleton Im not following you at all. From your perspective there has to be one scum between myself, Scoobert, and drDoolittle. I don't get your pokes towards Nonny or Invis and I would assume Vax is next on that list. None of it is producing content and just comes off as weak scumhunting.

This is a pretty good read, though. Also sort of my issue with him this game.

same, and *surprise* I still think singleton's our best lynch

ohhhh pressure a VT, I feel sooo obligated to do something.

I really dont feel one way or another and i jsut want to lynch someone and then get some bearings.

well this is gross

This wagon feels artificial. Not sure fully why but it’s weird how it developed. Looking at vaxkiller’s iso though I don’t like it, too many early breadcrumb claims which always feel purposeful. Never see legit VT’s needing to discuss how VT they are from page 2 on.

Will weigh in more if needed. Not sure pressure will do much given vax response on page 9.

My reread/wall post won’t be happening yet due to Irl stuff.

Feel like this game went from goofing around noncontent to 100% real very suddenly, not even sure where it shifted but need to review with the new context

There's three votes on vax, one of which is the IC. What part of the wagon feels artificial? This is kinda textbook scum defending scum, but I think I maybe townread you before this. Hm...
I don't really feel the bolded - what made you say this?

People who are hots for fast wagons this game are probably even more likely to be scum than usual cause town nights are bo oring

This is an interesting and somewhat towny-pov thing to say
237 - agreed
242 - at this point I'm satisfied enough that RCE is sorting to put him in a towny area of my reads.

It does seem like most players are taking this seriously enough that I think I might feel confident in saying that most of us are town? Idk how many, but

I'd hammer vax if the deadline were nearer - @Vax come playyyyy

[Irrelephant11]

I'm pretty certain this isn't the same setup as last game if super vt didn't show up last game??

I understand that Nako is conftown, but I'm asking

which

vote(s) on vax is artificial, specifically? It can't be Nako because you know they're town. So who are you pointing the finger at, if vax's wagon is made up of enough scum for the wagon to be fake?

[Irrelephant11]

In case anyone didn't notice the timing:

@Nonny

No, I think we were all thinking that Vax is pretty shady and needs to contribute before that? Did you not see that too?

Also, Nonny your thing about it being the same roles doesn't make any sense to me. You weren't scum last time, so you would have automatically known if the Super VT was involved?

Worried about what your going to say when I flip?

8 minutes later...

ok so vax is actually probably scum

4 minutes later...

Whys that?

3 minutes later...

You're actively posting and doing nothing to solve the game.

and then...

This is probably a better lynch than singleton at this rate

[Irrelephant11]

I guess if I'm to believe you that sucks a lot of scumminess out of your slot
idk yet if I believe you...
Do you have any examples of this being your type of play from other games?
At any rate I'm more interested in vax either showing up and playing or getting lynched over you rn

[Irrelephant11]

My townread of you has decreased, however, as soon as you went into V/LA, and when you came back it seemed like you’ve been intentionally avoiding the thread rather than actually busy.

scumreading someone for being busy (especially during sitewide v/la) is crap

[Irrelephant11]

welp
that's hammer

[Irrelephant11]

People who are hots for fast wagons this game are probably even more likely to be scum than usual cause town nights are bo oring

UNVOTE:
VOTE: vax

[Irrelephant11]

DDL did you know that was hammer?

[Irrelephant11]

My townread of you has decreased, however, as soon as you went into V/LA, and when you came back it seemed like you’ve been intentionally avoiding the thread rather than actually busy.

scumreading someone for being busy (especially during sitewide v/la) is crap

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I saw you posting elsewhere on the site when you were VLA and not posting here. And when you posted quickly when I asked for a prod on you it seemed like you were reading the thread but not posting.

I try to post once in each game I'm in when v/la
I forgot this game, partially because GIM is a meme game
I happened to remember it around when you posted about me
Also I've already tried to explain that biggest piece of this response is [redacted] due to site rules.
Please just don't try to read me off activity while on v/la, that's super annoying and it's not AI

Also yes I misread the vc, my bad! I thought it was 4 to lynch for some reason

[Irrelephant11]

@single: great, thank you

ohhhh pressure a VT, I feel sooo obligated to do something.

I really dont feel one way or another and i jsut want to lynch someone and then get some bearings.

the only misgiving that i have of vax town is here, but

everyone else scumreads it so im taking the wotc read on the post

@DDL what does the bolded mean

[Irrelephant11]

@nonny I think I'm the one who brought up jester originally? And it's because last version of this game I accidentally led a wagon on a jester

[Irrelephant11]

nonny is invis still your top scumread

[Irrelephant11]

I'm not defending singleton's use of the word in this particular situation, I'm just saying I think you're remembering wrong when you say it's single's 3-4th time bringing up the jester role. It's his first, I think.

Who's your biggest scumread?

[Irrelephant11]

I'll be on tonight you idiots.

Nonny is town as fuck by the way inc ase some idiot or scumbutt hammers me

The insults are unnecessary.

[Irrelephant11]

Who are you again? Please stop with the alt slips

[Irrelephant11]

Have a couple scumleans but nothing I’m confidant in yet. Can post more about it after work

@nonny would still love to hear your scumreads
when you're free

[Irrelephant11]

284 explains why I had that reaction

Also this

What have I done? Nothing.

is a completely legitimate reason to scumread you. You're clearly active lurking, which is not pro-town and is often a scum strategy

[Irrelephant11]

we basically have to lynch SOMEONE for shit reasons and then analyze peoples reasoning and try to figure out if they are scum or town.

???????

You mean the game of mafia????????????????????

[Irrelephant11]

No, lurking by itself is not scum indicative. Townies lurk. I just complained last page about being read for activity while I was busy IRL (

have

you read the thread?). But active lurking - watching the thread and posting just enough to get ignored - is a common scum strategy on this site that makes it harder for town to sort the slot and other slots.

If you are a vt, your job is to provide reads, analyze posts: you know,

play mafia

.

If you're a neutral survivor or something, good luck, your strat fell through

pedit: ?????????
Is your gameplan here to just insult anyone scumreading you? I'm not swayed by such simple AtE, sorry.

[Irrelephant11]

*"complained two pages ago about"

I wrote the above while we were still on the last page.

[Irrelephant11]

I'm actually confused. Are you truly unhappy to be stuck playing mafia, and that is the reason for your low activity?
That is what it sounds like.

pedit: okay, well you've already said you think nonny is town. What made you say that?

[Irrelephant11]

You should probably explain your low activity for everyone's benefit, since you're the biggest wagon
I'm lightly townreading your frustration here, but I still think you should put more into sorting players. "It's hard so I won't" is frustrating, at best.

pedit: this post seemed unhappy

As far as catching up goes, there is nothing to "catch up with" the game is 13 pages and nothing has happened that we can point to. This is why this sucks so much, because I realize we basically have to lynch SOMEONE for shit reasons and then analyze peoples reasoning and try to figure out if they are scum or town.

[Irrelephant11]

Personally, I think every player in this game has done lots of alignment-indicative stuff. It's not enough to be 100% sure on anyone, obviously, but I definitely don't see nonny as being particularly different in her play such that she's the only one you think you can read - but feel free to explain what I'm missing, there.

& I'm here rn if you have questions you'd like to ask to sort me

[Irrelephant11]

DDL could BE the scum on the wagon, trying to get you lynched
Especially because his point isn't really true - two of us have said we'd hammer you if you didn't give us reason to townread you soon

I don't think it's a townslip, and I think it's actually pretty scummy given the gamestate.
I'm thinking vaxkiller is the lynchbait here, guys. I'm not interested in this flip anymore.

[Irrelephant11]

nonny what do you think of vax's hard townread of you?

[Irrelephant11]

No one is asking you to scumread nonny atm
But whyyyy do you townread her so hard?
It kinda reads like you have information about her the rest of us don't

@nonny does his read of you change your read on him?

[Irrelephant11]

RCE how are you reading single at this point? Also why is your vote still on sooby/aero?

[Irrelephant11]

k so apparently we're gonna have to lynch either vax or single without the other one's help

[Irrelephant11]

Where did DDL go

[Irrelephant11]

@Mod you're probably already on this but can we have a DDL prod?

[Irrelephant11]

Also @Nako who do you want lynched

[Irrelephant11]

I'm feeling pretty settled on scum
I think Invis is very likely town, and this last page feels like posturing from both of you honestly
At this point I'm just trying to get a lynch through on you (seemingly fake progressions, awkward tone, hints of survivalism) or vax (mostly active lurking, the most genuine thing from his slot is his frustration at being scumread)
I need Nako or DDL to show up to make either one happen, so

Is there like anything you want my commentary on or are you just hoping to shade my slot, too

pedit: I

don't

care, I think the two competing wagons are both scum (idk if same team or not but also idc)

[Irrelephant11]

Thanks scum!

btw since when did you scumread me

yeah what? please elaborate on this read, vax
and also hold my vote VOTE: vaxkiller

[Irrelephant11]

Ok, so either Dr. tried to kill an informed group, or scum killed him and he recruited somebody

I'm going under the assumption doc died Recruiting and this may have been a cult v cult thing. I can't really wrap my head around doc being a scumtarget when he was lynched towns scumread. Literally pointing the finger to look into doc with his dying breath. Especially over someone like irrelephant whom is widely Townread or nonny, also Townread by pretty much everyone.

I think Doc would have targeted one of those townlocks, the only person I'd really rule out is Aero die to the soft buddying day 1. I don't see him trying to get Aero in his pocket publicly just to then recruit him it looks suspicious.

This seems mostly right but only in a vague "who knows in GIM but maybe it's this" sense

[Irrelephant11]

Interesting... tell me more

[Irrelephant11]

Yeah the Inquisitor role reads more to me like an occasional-recruit mafia goon rather than a cult leader
@RCEnigma who do you want to vote today

[Irrelephant11]

little bit of both
I'm not really scumreading anyone else rn so
I guess I should maybe be looking to cultread some players? But idk

[Irrelephant11]

UNVOTE:

[Irrelephant11]

Elsa do you understand what Grand Idea is? We might not have mafia in the traditional sense

[Irrelephant11]

But why would mafia shoot someone so widely scumread? Others have pointed out that his role would die if he targeted informed roles

[Irrelephant11]

I guess you guys expected the Spanish Inquisition... Damn...

Spoiler: DrDolittle

Inquisitor

Micro 824.2: Grand Idea Mafia (The Reroll)

Welcome, DrDolittle! You are an

Inquisitor

, and aligned with

yourself

.

Abilities:
~ Night Kill: Each night, you may attempt to kill someone. If they survive the kill, they will be recruited and added to your PT. The recruitment fails, however, if you attempt to recruit any player of an informed group, (Mafia, Werewolf, Mason, other Cult, etc).
~ Inquisitor PT: The Inquisitor PT may be found here.
~ Game Thread: The game thread may be found here.

Victory Condition:
~ You win once

you are the last man standing, once the

Inquisitor

obtain majority of the Town, or when nothing can prevent either from occuring.

Please confirm your existence by telling me your your role-name, alignment, and why you should have BP or something,

OR

by posting in the Inquisitor PT.

Day 2 Begins, and ends in (expired on 2018-10-15 20:35:00)!

VOTE COUNT 2.0

Vaxkiller (0):

Aeronaut (0):

Invisibility (0):

Irrelephant11 (0):

RCEnigma (0):

Nako (0):

nonny (0):

Not Voting (7):

Vaxkiller, Aeronaut, Invisibility, Irrelephant11, RCEnigma, Nako, Nonny
With

7

alive, it takes

4

to lynch.

(expired on 2018-10-15 20:35:00) remain in the day.

Mod Notes

:
- Aeronaut and Nonny are V/LA until October 1st.

Oh wait no
Hm there was definitely a kill last night

[Irrelephant11]

I’m confused, where does it say the kill backfired if it’s an informed group? All I read is the recruitment fails.

i think DrDolittle was the NK

Does them failing not mean they die?

I doubt RCE did the NK
This was sort of a weird way to fake a town slip if it’s fake

[Irrelephant11]

RCE why were you so sure DrD’s flip had to do with a cult?

[Irrelephant11]

But why would mafia shoot someone so widely scumread? Others have pointed out that his role would die if he targeted informed roles

wait it would?

no I was wrong

Looking at it now there are probably more alignments that could potentially kill or cause a fail when targeted. I wasnt thinking out of the box there.

Quick question. If Inquisitor doesn't die on mis-cult does that mean his recruit went through? Are we still dealing with a cult situation?

This is why I asked why you went straight to cult - his role PM doesn't even have the word "cult", and he only recruited on a failed kill... Now I'm paranoid that you're cult

[Irrelephant11]

...it does have killing power though?

[Irrelephant11]

I mean he was certainly night killed by a role other than his own. It could literally be a ton of different kinds of roles but yes.

There's been a few times this game where it feels like most of the playerlist is unaware of the ridiculous possibilities in GIM...
But yeah, whoever he shot somehow survived.

I wonder if there's utility in massclaim at any point in a game with a Super Vanilla Townie

[Irrelephant11]

idk what you're saying in 609

Who would Doc have targeted in the night?
Also his kill only fails on bulletproofs/doctors etc, not on informed groups
His

recruit

, which happens on a failed kill, fails on informed groups

So yeah I think you're still misunderstanding the role but I'll UNVOTE: to have time to figure it out

[Irrelephant11]

It's also possible both the kill and the recruit failed, like if he tried to shoot a bulletproof cultist

[Irrelephant11]

VOTE: Nonny

[Irrelephant11]

Curious what you think my reason is...

I think RCE's reasoning for DrD shooting at one of me/you/nonny makes some sense
DrD's kill didn't go through which means he may have successfully recruited someone
It wasn't me, and you're playing just like the last game day while nonny is noticeably quieter
that leaves nonny to be on the inquisitor team now - idk how she survived the kill but there's 101 options as to how, so

Even if she didn't get recruited I think that just points to her being on a scumteam of some kind

Also a smaller but significant reason is I'm curious what will happen if I sheep Aero

[Irrelephant11]

I mean I didn't love 614 but mostly because it was a confusing set of hypotheticals

Do you still want a vax lynch? Also what do you think of RCE's recent fear that we're in lylo?

[Irrelephant11]

I guess it could also theoretically be RCE who got recruited...

[Irrelephant11]

I still think there were 2 scum on my wagon.

Where's the certainty of >2 scum existing?

All we know for sure is there is atleast one role with a non town aligned wincon, right? Or else the game would be over. Is there any benefit to a mass claim?

Mass claim would only help if there were non-town alignments that could win with town
Otherwise everyone will be saying "vt"

[Irrelephant11]

I also didn't really get 3rd party vibes from DRD so idk about that

[Irrelephant11]

Okay but like
It could be 4v1v1v1 right now
Am I the only one playing GIM?

[Irrelephant11]

yo people, I'm here. No new computer, but I have access to some of our library ones during the week. Prob catching up tomorrow.

I want this before a lynch happens

[Irrelephant11]

Elsa are you still town

[Irrelephant11]

Because the idea has come up of this game being cult v cult and even if the flips don't suggest that, the fact it's been said itt kinda does
And if there's a more traditional cult in this game the IC makes sense as a recruit

...and because that answer is sorta dodgy

[Irrelephant11]

I guess?
Except I think it was RCE who said it while thinking the Inqusitor role was cult
So if anyone's part of a normal cult, it's just him (plus whoever he recruited or whoever recruited him)

I think you'd be dead if Inquisitor targeted you, so

[Irrelephant11]

I'm definitely feeling worse about RCE over time, but with so many questions about the setup... idk
@Elsa & @Aero (or replacement) who are you interested in lynching the most?

[Irrelephant11]

......then why aren't you voting either of us
like, why wait until you're dead? If you suspect one of us, play this game day??

Also, I was asking elsa if she's still town because I had a hunch that there's a cult, not because I thought she was targeted by DrD. I'm well aware she'd be dead if inquisitor targeted her

pedit: this is @RCE

[Irrelephant11]

I feel like Aeronaut stopped playing after D1
I won’t vote yet just in case this is a weird lylo like situation
But FOS Aeronaut

[Irrelephant11]

I don't have a scumread on Aeronaut per se, I just think he's not town

[Irrelephant11]

If you want to claim, go ahead. I'm pretty sure we're all gonna say vt

[Irrelephant11]

I'll make this interesting at least and let you know I'm

1-shot Vig Neutral Survivor

I shot DrD because he was the only one scumreading me

I didn't crumb, per se, but I think I've made it somewhat obvious that I've kinda been playing a "let's scumhunt because that might make me win sooner, but also let's just lynch anyone but me because that brings us closer to endgame" kind of game

It's also why I'm the one beating the "this setup is more interesting than you think!" drum
There's clearly some sort of anti-town left, but if it were me I'd be claiming vt here. At this point I'm just interested in following a majority and hopefully not getting killed in any way. If you can convince me that sorting towny/not towny players will help me win this game day, I might be interested. Otherwise, I'm probably just here...

[Irrelephant11]

VOTE: nonny

[Irrelephant11]

Lol
Personally I don’t believe it

[Irrelephant11]

Because you were L-1 when you claimed

[Irrelephant11]

Mm those are good points
I guess I believe you’re not vt but lyncher is a sort of convenient claim
I don’t super care, though

[Irrelephant11]

I will hammer invis if he gets close enough
thanks elsa

[Irrelephant11]

actually I guess I see no point in waiting if this is the thing that might hammer
VOTE: invis

[Irrelephant11]

I already explained how/why I've played like a survivor all game (plus no one else can explain the one nightkill), and if I had an anti-town wincon I would just hide my role by saying I was vt. I had enough towncred to avoid the lynch if I was scum, but since I can win with town I don't mind sharing my role. Someone (personally I feel like it's nonny but I could be wrong) is lying/not sharing their role, but idk who. Are you vt?