Open 735: Watchmen Wanted - Game Over!

[Toranaga]

hi

[Toranaga]

I'll read later

[Toranaga]

That’s your first post...?

VOTE: Reundo

I dig it

[Toranaga]

why so many words in every post

jesus christ

[Toranaga]

Anyone played this setup before?

I.e what’s the best way to play it... does hypoclaiming help town or scum?

And while we’re all saying hello, what are your opinions on how to deal with lurkers.

please Please townread me

This was a page one question intended to be answered before we enter serious/non-RVS gameplay.

You shouldn’t see it as an attempt to look ‘townie’: it’s as non-alignment indicative as say a player asking if there is scum day chat - why are you being lazy/shortsighted?

you're right. if you were scum you would have at least tried to phrase it differently. and you're not new. also; town tries hard to look like town too. so theres that

after reading further its clear (i hope i dont come off as too rude) that keyser is entirely detached from the state of the game ... but not in a scum way. nothing you have said has really made any sense and ive changed my mind. vote stays

detached from the state of the game seems like a made up read and the rest of it made 0 sense

[Toranaga]

Hmmm.

Keyser is interesting. Although he seems scum, I am unable to support that logically. Why is Keyser wanting to limit the forbidden topic to page 1? (And why not wait until day 2, when the forbidden topic actually becomes a thing that can be done?)

Reundo's 46 is a little annoying but I like how he looked at everyone.

I kind of am concerned about Keyser, so VOTE: Keyser.
I am not in that good of a mood, so do not expect any more reads from me at this time.

pretty bad post and especially bad take on reundo

"annoying" and "looked at everyone" don't describe reundo's 46 and aren't alignment indicative characteristics of any post. seems fake.

[Toranaga]

Also nobody dare TR me for that I did a bunch of shitty math only to come to the conclusion that its business as usual as far as claiming goes
in my last game a bunch of people town read me simply for effort and It blew my fucking minds as to why
I put up with it because I was town and people were having a hard time reading me but I'd like to get it out there that effort is not a one to one correlation with scuminess
a lack of effort is a good indicator of scum but a presence of effort does not indicate town

Anyways let that be a lesson to never do gametheory math late at night because youre bound to make idioitic mistakes, theres still a not great part of the stupidly simple model i used that doesn't account for the fact that T contains M in it, I should have broken it into P=t+M for more generalized use to make the death equation a bit easier to see the relationships

Why did you feel the need to "remind" us not to townread you for posting a mathematical proof? I find it a bit odd to automatically assume that people would give you free towncred just for that one early game contribution. I get your point about people making the mistake of townreading based on effort alone, but I really don't think it was necessary to explicitly say that you don't deserve towncred for sharing a mathematical proof.

ok, and so what? do you townread it, scumread it, null read it? who cares if it's unnecessary? is it scummy?

[Toranaga]

volxen/sesq/271 all fine lynches

[Toranaga]

do you think it's beneficial or necessary to talk about things that you clearly don't think are alignment indicative?

[Toranaga]

keyser, idk man, I lost interest with this game cause nobody is playing it

half the slots are scummy so idek where to vote

[Toranaga]

half the slots are scummy so idek where to vote

Give names

I already did

volx, sesq, numbers guy

I could case them all if I had the motivation to do so

[Toranaga]

Dunnstrai, why would you care if I used an american point (2.718) or a british point (2,718)?

Commas are scummy

LOL

nsg got rekt

[Toranaga]

did we lolhammered volxen?

[Toranaga]

Votecount 1.07

2 718281828459 (2) - Irrelephant11 184, Kop 194
Reundo (2) - Ausuka 142, Keyser Söze 143
Dunnstral (1) - northsidegal 170
Sesq (1) - Dunnstral 117
Keyser Söze (1) - Reundo 50
[GameNBurger] (1) - volxen 14

Not voting: [GameNBurger], Toranaga 110, Sesq 135, 2 718281828459 151

The deadline for Day 1 is 1:52 pm CT on Tuesday, September 4, in (expired on 2018-09-04 14:51:53).

reundo, irrelephant, sesq, keyser, ausuka voted volxen

ok so he is l-2

[Toranaga]

I see this picked up remotely but I'm not gonna put any effort in it just yet

[Toranaga]

quack quack

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

[Toranaga]

holy fuck I thought this game was gonna be complete shit and then LOOK WHO'S HERE

ok hi mate

lol I'm so ecstatic to be playing with you rn

[Toranaga]

is E scum with Reundo?
would that be too easy?
:thinking:

do you have anything against easy?

[Toranaga]

volxen/sesq/271 all fine lynches

:0

#me

I'm already pocketed and idec if that makes sense or if you're mafia I just wanna clear you and not look back today

[Toranaga]

@mod any chance of a deadline extension?

this is already the towniest motherfucker on the planet

[Toranaga]

anyways, i feel as if this game i'm just going to try to get a towncore and go off of poe mainly

town:
northsidegal
2.718281828459 (unfortunate you didn't replace into this slot ducky, i think it's town)
Ausuka
Keyser Söze (presuming i can trust kop on keyser's alignment and just for now - keyser is someone who i plan to do more meta on when i get the energy or when someone bothers me about it enough)
Irrelephant11

that leaves:
{volxen, the worst, Dunnstral, Reundo, Toranaga, Kop}

which feels vaguely alright in terms of a poe

bolded feels town

[Toranaga]

Ah volxen and I have met in site chat and [redacted for siterule reasons]

[swing house lobby]

[Toranaga]

but for now I'll say that I think volxen's case against active lurkers is hypocritical considering he's been active lurking as well for the most part.

next up on nsg's guide to lazy low-effort very accurate reads!!!™ - we'll be taking a note out of mathdino's book and we'll be townreading hypocrisy!

after all, i would personally imagine that newbie scum (assuming volxen is a newbie) would feel self-conscious about trying to push someone for something that he himself knows he's doing. of course, that's assuming that volxen recognizes his own inactivity, but i think we can take that to be true given this:

I've been busy with work, I will respond more tomorrow.

don't townread hypocrisy lol

[Toranaga]

scum is extremely hypocritical all the time

[Toranaga]

anyway I'm back later but I'm totally going to play this now

[Toranaga]

I'll read this and solve nothing today

[Toranaga]

I ISO'd sesq and it's a lot of self contradictory posting that IDK if it's scummy or towny or what

[Toranaga]

"He’s carrying himself with this “I don’t give a shit about this game, but if I did I could easily gamesolve the whole thing” attitude."

toranaga bless

[Toranaga]

hot take: we need to hammer Sesq who will do nothing to defend themselves or flashwagon volxen who is one rung townier and will become extremely obvious later if scum

VOTE: volxen

volxen made a lot of scumsplaining and description posts that added no leans and didn't help the game move forward. I think he has a bigger chance of being scum than sesq who is probably kind of... incoherent? regardless of what they rand.

[Toranaga]

Feeling pretty good about town!Sesq given they were competing wagons. But I still want lots more from Sesq

why does that make Sesq town?

it doesn't

also hi, I'll read later

[Toranaga]

replacing out

i dont like mafia

aww you poor thing

I think this is town, guys.

[Toranaga]

Toranaga, bad news.. during my re-read I had you down as the scum partner who bussed Volxen

Do you want me to talk through the scum narrative I have in my head?

nah, I know my reads are so good it feels like TMI

lynch me ahead bro

[Toranaga]

I may have bussed volxen as his partner but I was also the main reason he got lynched I THINK? cause I started that counterwagon for real. the lynch was going elsewhere until I voted there and TW went "woooooo" ITT and then everybody followed

if there's bussing it's either before I voted or after TW moved there. TW is clear. no one fakes this much excitement this early about lynching a scum partner I don't think.

[Toranaga]

also maybe don't lynch inside volxen's wagon if you can avoid it today thx

game is easy bros. just don't do hero reads like me and TW this gameday and lynch inside an actual smart POE for today. not volxen's voters unless you wanna lynch sesq.

[Toranaga]

in before "HE IS TW'S PARTNUR"

[Toranaga]

it's TORanaga

TOR

not taranaga

I can take being called toranga, but not taranaga

ok now onto your thing

"
Taranaga name drops his scum partner’s name and two other viable wagons.
Does not go into detail or present his scum case on any of them."

UNEXPLAINED READS? MUST BE A WOLF. you saw how volxen explained every single thing he thought or saw in the game, right? and what did he flip? yup.

"
Taranaga asks this question to Volxen: it’s a very non-aggressive/rhetorical question you would ask your scum partner. I suspect it was soft-distancing."

I'm getting around the idea that this is a wolf making pointless reads/questions etc there. it felt like fake work and I wanted to see what he'd respond to it. this isn't distancing, this is me smelling wolf from his post.

the rest of it I can't really respond to. I'm not in the mood to read this until I need to and I don't need to.

"
hey Taranaga, please give me a rating for a) effort b) believability c) sincerity"

a for effort
b for delivery
a for sincerity

I'm locktowning you for trying to case me, it's really cute from you

[Toranaga]

I'm not lynching sesq today because she doesn't like mafia cause that's so towny

there are probably one or two wordy wolves that I'm not gonna catch today or at least not until I do a proper read, so I have no candidates rn

[Toranaga]

VOTE: dunnstral

scummy posting imo

[Toranaga]

THIS DOESNT LOOK LIKE TOWN NAUCI

that does look like a wolf lmao

[Toranaga]

I don't think it is though

and dunn just looks way too shy with his ausuka scumread. seems like a cornered wolf

[Toranaga]

VOTE: Ausuka

Don't think it's Tornaga, think we should be taking a second look at Ausuka

dunn's posts today, looks very frozen.

[Toranaga]

alright dunn

I ISO'd you and didn't think it was too bad. there's some towny moments like making fun of NSG and asking a bunch of seemingly relevant questions while providing no follow up. little towny things here and there.

you seem only focused on ausuka this gameday and I can't townread anything this shallow.

[Toranaga]

I'm gonna townread dunn's last post cause he is attacking my perspective on mafia in general other than read/my alignment or whatever

it's just a towny thing to do

[Toranaga]

you guys are towny af

[Toranaga]

I'm gonna do some titus™ vca

[Toranaga]

Votecount 1.08

volxen (4) - Reundo 220, Irrelephant11 221, Sesq 222, Keyser Söze 224
2 718281828459 (1) - Kop 194
Dunnstral (1) - northsidegal 170
Reundo (1) - Ausuka 142
Sesq (1) - Dunnstral 117
[GameNBurger] (1) - volxen 14

Not voting: [GameNBurger], Toranaga 110, 2 718281828459 151

The deadline for Day 1 is 1:52 pm CT on Tuesday, September 4, in (expired on 2018-09-04 14:51:53).

what a beautiful vc. this wagon feels pure. I didn't read irrelephant or reundo to any depth but the posts keyzer soze mentioned are a great look for reundo who seemed to be onto volxen from the very beginning and for all the correct reasons why he was a wolf (the superficial highly descriptive posting that never really went anywhere). keyser is very towny and I think sesq is town for a lot of added up thin reads on both players in that slot.

alright good start.

[Toranaga]

Votecount 1.09

volxen (5) - Reundo 220, Irrelephant11 221, Sesq 222, Keyser Söze 224, Ausuka 239
2 718281828459 (2) - Kop 194, volxen 237
Dunnstral (1) - northsidegal 170
Sesq (1) - Dunnstral 117

Not voting: [GameNBurger], Toranaga 110, 2 718281828459 151

The deadline for Day 1 is 1:52 pm CT on Tuesday, September 4, in (expired on 2018-09-04 14:51:53).

Mod notes

- If anyone else would like to try finding a replacement for GameNBurger's slot, I'd really appreciate it.

dunn has a point in ausuka's very late entrance onto this wagon. I also dislike some of her posts. NSG, dunn, myself are not on any wagons and all look bad. I think <ausuka, NSG, dunnstrall> is a good lynchpool rn looking at this. since I made the 3rd or 4th vote later on volxen when sesq was a runaway wagon, I think VCA actually points to me being town as well

[Toranaga]

Votecount 1.11

Sesq (4) - Dunnstral 117, northsidegal 307, the worst 308, volxen 330
volxen (4) - Reundo 220, Sesq 222, Keyser Söze 224, Ausuka 239
Toranaga (1) - Irrelephant 255
[2 718281828459] (1) - Kop 194

Not voting: Toranaga 110, [2 718281828459] 151

The deadline for Day 1 is 1:52 pm CT on Tuesday, September 4, in (expired on 2018-09-04 14:51:53).

Mod notes

- Ausuka has been prodded. She has (expired on 2018-09-02 10:23:45) to post before I start searching for her replacement.
- @northsidegal: After deliberation, I have decided to stick to my original deadline extension of pausing at 48 hours until the last replacement is filled (if necessary).

this points heavily to the scum team being NSG and ausuka

is that how it's done, titus? did I learn from the master well?

[Toranaga]

NSG just jumps opportunistically into that sesq wagon didn't she

I'm not gonna read her posts but this looks bad

[Toranaga]

Votecount 1.13

Sesq (5) - Dunnstral 117, northsidegal 307, the worst 308, volxen 330, Ausuka 345
volxen (3) - Reundo 220, Sesq 222, Keyser Söze 224
Keyser Söze (1) - Huntress 393
Toranaga (1) - Irrelephant 255
Huntress (1) - Eragon 194

Not voting: Toranaga 110

The deadline for Day 1 is 1:52 pm CT on Tuesday, September 4, in (expired on 2018-09-04 14:51:53).

and look where ausuka is now amirite

if I clear dunn, and I think I am clearing dunn already in my head, then yeah ausuka/nsg probably contain at least one wolf

[Toranaga]

Votecount 1.14

volxen (6) - Reundo 220, Sesq 222, Keyser Söze 224, Toranaga 402, the worst 406, Ausuka 408
Sesq (3) - Dunnstral 117, northsidegal 307, volxen 330
Keyser Söze (1) - Huntress 393
Toranaga (1) - Irrelephant 255
Huntress (1) - Eragon 194

Not voting: N/A

The deadline for Day 1 is 1:52 pm CT on Tuesday, September 4, in (expired on 2018-09-04 14:51:53).

Mod notes

- @Keyser Soze: The deadline in this vote count and the first post of the thread are both current and accurate.

it's a beautiful thing this lynch. I think everyone but ausuka is going to ~always be town here. I am townreading the people who voted volxen for reasons that are outside of voting volxen btw, this isn't pure VCA of course. but there's VCA here to corroborate my reads on those players.

ausuka/NSG today? if anyone has meta that tells otherwise please point @ me

I'll read those slots and maybe the game tomorrow

[Toranaga]

VOTE: ausuka

let's do this dunn

you and me baby

[Toranaga]

last time the worst voted right after me, you know what happened?

a wolf died.

[Toranaga]

yeah I'll do it tomorrow mate, I have to bounce now

[Toranaga]

My case on Ausuka is that he voted Volxen then switched over to Sesq when that became a thing then switched back to volxen when that was happening, and I remember their votes being pretty bad at the time

oh yeah btw

this solidifies my dunn townread cause I came to the same conclusion just checking VCA

feels like a very organic d2 tunnel, he just got there faster than us

in... 15 hours I'll be completely read up and know where to go hopefully

[Toranaga]

TW and I are not the two remaining mafia goons.

@the worst - can you confirm.

I can confirm too

...

oh wait

[Toranaga]

Came into D2 thinking Toro-Dunn (but they’re both united over scum-Ausuka, who in turn doesn’t town read them! how perfect ) so this is going to be an interesting day. So I’m now sat here with my popcorn, waiting to see the uncensored interactions between those players (so far they’ve talked about eachother, but not engaged one another).

maybe tora but I think dunn is town mate

[Toranaga]

My last thought (about Toranaga) got me thinking about how the wagon on volxen happened and I went back and found this

hot take: we need to hammer Sesq who will do nothing to defend themselves or flashwagon volxen who is one rung townier and will become extremely obvious later if scum

Which, given scum don't have day chat, is VERY INTERESTING.
If volxen "will become extremely obvious later if scum", why be concerned about lynching him now? (wagon movement was still more toward sesq, who tw says here is scummier)
Unless he's trying to hint to his scum buddy that it's time to bus

Toranaga immediately followed it up with the move to vote volxen, which tw followed. Tor has tried to claim towncred for them both this game day, and has since lampshaded "inb4 partners" which, admittedly, would be bold, but would also make anyone who called them partners look a little silly

Any thoughts on this? tw has come across as feeling v towny in tone but I can't get over the combo of
-GNB's weirdness
-volxen's long, drawn out nullread of the slot
-tw's TMI of the lynch

And then Toranaga
-Has directed attention off-wagon without reasoning
-Has lots of interactions with tw that are really very friendly and (significantly) once tw joined the game Tor was much more interested in playing

Tor was also pretty scummy last game day imo (see: Keyser's case, which was mostly ignored?)

Thoughts anyone? They happen to both be independently possible scum but ISO the two of them + GNB and see if you see what I see

For now I'll start with VOTE: Toranaga

pedit: hi sorry

[Toranaga]

when have I directed attention off wagon though? I came in, read the wagons, thought volxen was scummier and booya it was scum

the crowd goes wild woohoo

[Toranaga]

everyone casing me is town

how about that read brothers and sisters

[Toranaga]

I am interested in where I tried to drive attention off wagon. that literally did not happen at all

[Toranaga]

-Has lots of interactions with tw that are really very friendly and (significantly) once tw joined the game Tor was much more interested in playing

I like how enjoying to play with certain people is scummy to you irrelephant

[Toranaga]

instead of trying to lynch the people who dunked on scum yesterday, just look at other slots. just today. it's day 2. look at ausuka's vote movement, it's scummy. I have no reason to townread anything she said today either. NSG is probably scum as well.

[Toranaga]

I will get your name correct one day, sorry Toranaga.

[You a Kurosawa fan?]




Has everyone written off Eragon as town? A slot we haven’t spoken about much. Kop felt like town kop, and Eragon hasn’t made any scummy moves since replacing in.

I happen to be a kurosawa fan, yes. this is toshiro mifune without kurosawa directing, in the tv adaptation for james clavell's novel, "shogun". my dad gave me this book when I was a kid and I met him 3 times total, so there's a sentimental value to it.

[Toranaga]

instead of trying to lynch the people who dunked on scum yesterday, just look at other slots. just today. it's day 2. look at ausuka's vote movement, it's scummy. I have no reason to townread anything she said today either. NSG is probably scum as well.

In follow up of Irrelephant’s points against you:
You say we shouldn’t look at people who “dunked on scum” / pushed and voted Volxen D1, but you are looking at Volxen’s wagon yourself (Ausuka). I just wish you’d been on Volxen’s wagon earlier: instead you name-dropped Volxen early saying you would lynch them but did not vote for a long part of D1. Then when the wagon looked inevitable then you decided to vote / post your belated case. That is what is grating in the back of my head. I asked you before, give me a grade for “believability” for the scum narrative I am presenting. You are not acknowledging but deflecting. You keep laughing off cases on you with humour, gifs, talking about the worst, or throwing out a town read on the person analysing your behaviour. I feel the Volxen wagon was too damn enticing for at least one scum not to bus.

Nauci says NSG is the townie who towned in townville - are you going to challenge Nauci in regard this read?

I didn't read NSG's posts to any depth so yeah nancy can probably read her much better than I can

wrt my vote coming too late on volxen, it wasn't actually late and it wasn't an inevitable wagon. it was the moment we went from lynching sesq to me pushing the wagon somewhere else. yes I probably only convinced the worst to go there, but that caused the chain reaction that lead to volxen's lynch. I'll tell you to look at the momentum shift as soon as I voted there. the worst asked a question: who are we lynching, the guy who is the lead wagon or the townier guy who will look obvious later? I then ISO'd both and decided to go volxen. the momentum went from us lynching sesq to lynching volxen so yeah I dunked. I explained exactly why volxen was a wolf too. I wasn't the only or the first one to do it, but it was there.

but if you wanna lynch me mate, go ahead. I'm not really interested in winning these days anyway so I'm not gonna be typing a bunch of stuff just to defend myself. I can explain anything you find odd or whatever, but yeah none of your points are any good so I get to laugh my way to the mislynch.

"o now he is being a condescending dick! it's scummy!!"

[Toranaga]

sometimes what looks like scum being opportunistic is scum being opportunistic

[Toranaga]

VOTE: volxen

Hi duckling.

VOTE: sesq

Probably a decent vote tbh my tr on them kind of feels like it was probably an inaccurate shitread.

Joining around 4th/5th on both wagons without any explanation

here

sheep this god of mafia

dunn you're so good with this ausuka push

the fuck was I thinking misreading you as a wolf

[Toranaga]

Votecount 1.12

Sesq (5) - Dunnstral 117, northsidegal 307, the worst 308, volxen 330, Ausuka 345
volxen (3) - Reundo 220, Sesq 222, Keyser Söze 224
Toranaga (1) - Irrelephant 255
Huntress (1) - Kop 194

Not voting: Toranaga 110, Huntress 151

The deadline for Day 1 is 1:52 pm CT on Tuesday, September 4, in (expired on 2018-09-04 14:51:53).

Mod notes

- Just to be clear, post 346 does not count as an unvote, due to broken formatting.

this is the vc right before I vote volxen btw

and notice where the fuck ausuka is, on sesq. and then dunn points at her late entering wagons without giving any explanation, I move the 4th to volxen when I could join ausuka in voting sesq, yes?

now figure out which one is scum brother

[Toranaga]

momentum was 100% sesq, right?

it went irrelephant votes me (?), then NSG, TW, volxen and ausuka all vote sesq

then obvioustown!tor, what does he do? he reads the wagon and points at the wolf volxen instead

do proper VCA man come on. titus would be pretty sad at how you're reading this as me being "too late" on volxen lmao.

[Toranaga]

like, I'm teaching you here, I'm not doing this to defend myself even

just doing it to show what things you're supposed to be looking at

you're scumreading me for nothing that makes anyone scum and then for wrong VCA that doesn't work. I promise you you're not catching wolves with the type of logic you're presenting here.

[Toranaga]

you know what

sure let's gamble

if ausuka flips green kill me tomorrow

I bet it doesn't

[Toranaga]

x

[Toranaga]

Yeah... but the Sesq case was bad... and was being trampled on at the time.
The Volxen slot was in very bad shape too.

sesq was very incoherent, I just figured that wasn't necessarily scummy and would be something he'd do as town or scum based off the way he was posting. the case against him would probably still resonate strongly I'm sure.

volxen slot was in bad shape cause he was being obv!scum but that takes a little reading into it, while sesq was flat out incoherent and you could just say "guy says a, b and c, all contradicting each other in 1 paragraph. that makes no sense and I hope it dies scum" and get away with it, you know? sesq case was alive and well when I joined volxen, otherwise we wouldn't have had 4 votes in sequence on sesq right before I voted volxen.

I think you're wanting me to be scum with this argument, would you agree?

[Toranaga]

VOTE: Ausuka

Reason: “for being sloppy scum and shamefully jumping off her partner’s wagon to push a viable counter wagon, to then jump off that wagon, and return to her partner’s wagon in a desperate attempt at towncred/bussing.”



This vote feels dirty.

voting scum feels dirty yeah

[Toranaga]

we got this

[Toranaga]

I'll let someone else do it cause it's a lot of long complicated posting that'd require too much from me lol

I just dropped by to say ausuka has literally dropped the 3 names pushing her the hardest as her top scumreads

it's OMGUSing so hard that it's probably the first time I use the term seriously

[Toranaga]

you're the cutest dratini I know

[Toranaga]

Ftr I townread you for jumping on every wagon
Idk what else there was in terms of case on you but I don’t have a scumread on you rn

don't do this

[Toranaga]

also maybe don't lynch inside volxen's wagon if you can avoid it today thx

game is easy bros. just don't do hero reads like me and TW this gameday and lynch inside an actual smart POE for today. not volxen's voters unless you wanna lynch sesq.

also him doing this and then jumping on me (who was on the volxen wagon) is really :thinking:

this is the benefit of a bus in and of itself btw, consider the following;

this is actually a 12p game, we have two mislynches and that's it. from bussing you get a huge pile of towncred, which you then use on things like ^ this, which burns through town mislynches very fast. I can also imagine Tor would absolutely love the idea of getting mass towncred and sweeping with the worst as his buddy. as far as I'm aware this is the only example of someone trying to use the fact they were voting scum to their advantage wrt/ towncred.

you're not a volxen wagoner, you're the latest entrance to it and you never even gave a reason to

when something else got hot you jumped there

there's nothing to your posting that's earning a townread rn. if you manage to convince town I should be lynched instead that's fine but then you die when I flip town, is that good?

[Toranaga]

Good points bye

those weren't even points lmao

please kill ausuka

[Toranaga]

I'll let someone else do it cause it's a lot of long complicated posting that'd require too much from me lol

I just dropped by to say ausuka has literally dropped the 3 names pushing her the hardest as her top scumreads

it's OMGUSing so hard that it's probably the first time I use the term seriously

This is also horrible, and ignores the fact that a) I was scumreading Dunnstral from before he voted me and b) town are naturally inclined to suspect people pushing them. Like in this case scum are legitimately on my wagon because the push on me is awful but even if they're not any townie is often inclined to say people pushing them is town. Honestly I think Toranga is far too experienced to not know this.

I'm townreading everyone that thinks I'm scum other than you cause I know you're doing this out of desperation. you're just scumreading everyone that scumreads you lol. and dunn is town so you're 100% wrong on all the reads.

[Toranaga]

:thumbsup: glad we talked

it's weekend so I have little time to mafia

still think you're the cutest dratini

[Toranaga]

Imma stop being lazy and go do a proper read of this game

was out having beers and oysters so nvm if my reads are all shit

[Toranaga]

Hello all.

VOTE: GameNBurger

Because I like both games and burgers.

I have to say this is the first time I see someone being scummy while making a RVS vote lol

[Toranaga]

also I wonder how much this vote actually looks good for the worst? not that he needs it but I wonder how often this is going to be phrased so poorly in RVS while simultaneously voting for a scum partner.

[Toranaga]

Quack Quack tora QUACK quack quack quality Ausuka QuAcK NSG!

Quack translator Quack Worst Quackity?

I'm town, so is Tora AND also most likely Ausuka & hOpEfUlLy NSG!

I know you were translating from quackspeak but... do you townread anything ausuka did this game? I'm having a hard time ever getting out of this read if it's a tunnel so I'm gonna need a ton of help if you're leaning any other way.

[Toranaga]

Anyone played this setup before?

I.e what’s the best way to play it... does hypoclaiming help town or scum?

And while we’re all saying hello, what are your opinions on how to deal with lurkers.

please Please townread me

sesq is very likely town

there's something very clear about the way ausuka is interacting with keyser soze that makes them ~never scum partners (she is pushing everyone pushing her except for keyser, who she is townreading and trying to convince he shouldn't townread me in a way that's organic enough to at least not be w/w). I find it amusing that sesq, who is also POE'd down or at least was until she got replaced, is also spewing herself never scum partners with keyser here. considering the depth and understanding sesq showed in this game, I don't think this is ever some smart attempt at creating distancing. I also think it's very likely a town post, because scum is generally more self aware than to ask to be townread on p1 without doing anything.

"but tora you idiot, scum can do that too!" well yes, other scum in other spots, or smarter scum in this spot, but not sesq. the way sesq played this game makes them never ever above level 0 regardless of rand so I'm taking everything sesq does and says as face up as possible. that was a town post.

[Toranaga]

Also nobody dare TR me for that I did a bunch of shitty math only to come to the conclusion that its business as usual as far as claiming goes
in my last game a bunch of people town read me simply for effort and It blew my fucking minds as to why
I put up with it because I was town and people were having a hard time reading me but I'd like to get it out there that effort is not a one to one correlation with scuminess
a lack of effort is a good indicator of scum but a presence of effort does not indicate town

Anyways let that be a lesson to never do gametheory math late at night because youre bound to make idioitic mistakes, theres still a not great part of the stupidly simple model i used that doesn't account for the fact that T contains M in it, I should have broken it into P=t+M for more generalized use to make the death equation a bit easier to see the relationships

aaaaaaand gamenburger is already never scum because he is lecturing no one in particular on how townreading him for effort is wrong, before anyone said anything.

also I find his watcher claiming content something that doesn't even go through scum head in the first place... it's one thing to say a bunch of LAMIST-y stuff just to get townread. this man is going depths to understand how to best play the set up.

so yeah that's yet another evidence that the worst is pretty much always town here.

[Toranaga]

Anyone played this setup before?

I.e what’s the best way to play it... does hypoclaiming help town or scum?

And while we’re all saying hello, what are your opinions on how to deal with lurkers.

please Please townread me

This was a page one question intended to be answered before we enter serious/non-RVS gameplay.

You shouldn’t see it as an attempt to look ‘townie’: it’s as non-alignment indicative as say a player asking if there is scum day chat - why are you being lazy/shortsighted?

lmao

I think sesq was just asking you to townread her

[Toranaga]

Are you saying GNB is suspiciously being overly-conscious about being t/read for a townie?

so... I don't like NSG's posts before this response from keyser. she is seemingly worried about GNB's perspective when he doesn't want to get townread for effort, but in a post that's overrall towny and from a perspective that NSG has no reason to believe it comes from scum. her questioning GNB won't get to better parsing out the slot and feels like pointing out/pushing things that look incoherent instead of things that look scummy.

NSG is quite a cerebral player and I expect better, more interesting scumhunting from the get go.

[Toranaga]

what? i thought i was pretty clear, although looking now i guess i was less verbose than i had thought. yes, his thought process doesn't make sense to me as a real one, which would naturally imply that it's something made up - hence my saying it "rings kind of fake".

I have a problem with this, NSG.

GNB just said that, in last game when he was town, everyone started just townreading him on effort and that made things harder for him in that game. so naturally he doesn't want the same thing to repeat itself and end up in a similar situation. why is that fake? and why would he fake it? he is already being pretty LAMIST-y without saying he doesn't want a townread, so adding this part and referring to a game in which the same thing probably did happen just doesn't read at all like something he is faking, and IDK why that's how you're reading into this.

[Toranaga]

but in a post that's overrall towny and from a perspective that NSG has no reason to believe it comes from scum.

-shrug-

it sounds like we just disagree on whether or not that's actually towny. that's to say nothing of my current read on tw or even what my read on GNB was - just whether or not GNB's original posts were town indicative or not.

we do disagree, yeah. if it's scummy or not from you to think that I'll only know when you flip.

you're townreading TW yes?

[Toranaga]

oh god you're all posting walls again and it's only page 3

I can't read this, it's too boring

ok I'mma skim stuff and figure out where I'm leaning

NSG, why do you think dunn is scum and why are you townreading ausuka?

[Toranaga]

Also nobody dare TR me for that I did a bunch of shitty math only to come to the conclusion that its business as usual as far as claiming goes
in my last game a bunch of people town read me simply for effort and It blew my fucking minds as to why
I put up with it because I was town and people were having a hard time reading me but I'd like to get it out there that effort is not a one to one correlation with scuminess
a lack of effort is a good indicator of scum but a presence of effort does not indicate town

Anyways let that be a lesson to never do gametheory math late at night because youre bound to make idioitic mistakes, theres still a not great part of the stupidly simple model i used that doesn't account for the fact that T contains M in it, I should have broken it into P=t+M for more generalized use to make the death equation a bit easier to see the relationships

this

also... I was in that game. I know why he was bothered. basically, no one liked much of what GNB said but it was so many words it was hard to think it ever came from scum. I think that annoyed him cause people started to clear him without interacting with his posts in any meaningful way.

[Toranaga]

also... I was in that game. I know why he was bothered. basically, no one liked much of what GNB said but it was so many words it was hard to think it ever came from scum. I think that annoyed him cause people started to clear him without interacting with his posts in any meaningful way.

getting townread and people ignoring your posts are two entirely different issues

if your posts getting ignored is what upsets you then it makes sense to make comments regarding that. getting townread for reasons you believe are invalid is entirely unrelated to that subject matter.

those things are definitely correlated. if GNB wasn't being townread on effort, or if he was but his posts were challenging and made people interact with him, he wouldn't be ignored.

and yeah if you wanna drop the discussion, sure let's drop it. I see reasoning behind the dunn scumread and he is something I've scumread for a good part of d1. I think dunn is town cause I think he is right about ausuka being scum though, and the way he is laying out the scumread feels natural and not things wolves do for distance.

[Toranaga]

No my vote was RVS but I can't decide how to feel about his one post being a response to Burger's game theory stuff. He didn't participate in RVS, or correct Burger on the definition of hypoclaiming, or suggest anything was AI

It's the lack of content from a player that has shown up that I find interesting

that's re: dunnstrall and good reasons to scumread him early on

[Toranaga]

I don't really have scumreads and idk what to say

Irre why is Sesq scum?

awkward...

[Toranaga]

Spoiler: northsidegal

I guess I'm about null here? Like, there's scumhunting in her ISO, but I guess something feels off about it. It's like she's pursuing GNB but she never really, like, follows up past pressing on one specific point and then doing the same thing to Irrelephant? Maybe this is just like playstyle and I'm reading too much into it but I feel like town having a seemingly fairly strong scumread there is likely to, like, try and drive a wagon early there and see how people react to that?

Spoiler: Sesq

their posts are a rollercoaster ride to the point where if they flipped red I'd be actually impressed with the acting. also I don't really see the scum motivation exactly for saying "oh i tr you nope jk i scumread you"- it's so convoluted that I think the simplest explanation is that they're just town tbh.

Spoiler: 2 718281828459 (replaced Saudade)

First thought is that I like 91 - Considering his tone here I think 2.718 is unlikely to approach the game this way as scum? Like, I guess I get the feeling he approaches this game in a fairly logical manner and that it wouldn't really appeal to him so much to fake gut reads as scum in the stead of logical reads which I think get townread more. It also seems towny that he goes back and tries to justify and elaborate on his read - if scum are going to bother faking a gutread I'm not sure they bother since the word "gut" tends to make people value what you're saying a lot less.

He seems somewhat like town with legitimate conviction in 101; he isn't, like, overly waffly, and I think his approach to Keyser where he builds up his conviction is towny and genuine. It starts as a gutread and he finds evidence that his read is correct and then pushes it. I feel reasonably confident that 2.718 is town.

Spoiler: Keyser Söze

looks to be genuinely scumhunting? I guess I could see how he's being defensive but I don't think it's scummy to be defensive tbh. Also I kinda get where he's coming from w/ Reundo. I think he's wrong about 2.718 but like when somebody comes into the thread like that with a case you don't understand at all it's understandable that you would vote for that person.

Spoiler: volxen

not an incredible lot to say - his contributions are kind of active lurking-ish?

Spoiler: GameNBurger

I don't feel qualified to judge his mathy plan because I don't really understand a word of it I guess I kinda like his "don't townread me for mathing" thing; I agree with this- I think scum very much like to hide behind mechanics generally- and it makes sense that if something annoys him he wouldn't want it in the game, even if it's helpful to him personally.

Spoiler: Irrelephant11

I think I kinda understand where his tr on nsg is coming from in that she was being gamesolvy? In general I find his posts as, uh, "adequate" more than anything else. I don't exactly scumread his approach but it's also not that towny and I don't get why he's fixated on Dunnstral specifically; what thoughts are people supposed to have about Dunnstral considering he's only made one mechanic-related post back in RVS?

Spoiler: Reundo

I kinda dislike his entrance. Like, with Sesq and Keyser, I can see both sides - I don't think keyser's opening was LAMIST but I can totally see how somebody could see it that way. I almost feel like he's trying to push Keyser? but holding back for some reason. I don't see how it's really supposed to be scum-indicative for someone to dislike their posts being portrayed as lamist. The whole scum daychat thing appears to be kinda irrelevant? Like, I don't see the argument that Keyser as scum for some reason uses scum daychat as an example of something NAI whereas town!Keyser acknowledges it's NAI and moves on. What could the scum motivation ever be for lying in such an insignificant way? I also don't get why it's scummy to say "this is NAI" when someone pushes you for things you think are NAI. I also don't see how it's scum motivated to stop talking about his sr on Sesq as scum; I don't think scum would really mind repeating the same thing over and over at all? And why does scum!keyser pretend to forget about hypoclaiming? Like I might just be being stupid but I don't understand this at all.

@gamenburger: you mentioned keyser was being a bit stiff about sesq. can you like elaborate on if that actually makes you scumread him?

@volxen: why do you think scum!GNB argues that people will tr him for mechanics when he doesn't actually believe that?

oh well

this is very hedgy but I do like some of it

I'll have to ISO dunn now

[Toranaga]

I read very little dear

[Toranaga]

yeah sure, why not?

did you notice when I voted volxen? you're scumreading me when you did read the game which is probably much worse

[Toranaga]

also that big list post isn't even that good

I'll sheep duck's read on you, is that good?

[Toranaga]

duckling why do you townread toranga so much?

his reaction to my entrance pinged town, he's quite organically reached a few of the same thoughts I have and I think his fluctuations in energy levels are pretty genuine from him.

legit starting to t/tread u two as well

so good at mafia, this kid

I'll literally let you tell me which one of dunn/ausuka is best today, I think you're leaning dunn and that's fine by me tbh

I did like his ausuka wolfread a lot on d1/today and I like that he mocked NSG as a towny thing to be doing

[Toranaga]

I wanna make a "town af" list and then kill everyone else

[Toranaga]

to start with irrelephant townreading my volxen vote and then scumreading my annoyingly confident tone

if this guy flips scum I can't mafia

hold me to this post

[Toranaga]

keyser/duckling always town too, right?

I hope so

[Toranaga]

kop/eragon is a very spicy spot indeed

the worst was talking about a world where both dunnstall and ausuka were town and it's a scary proposition but I'm gonna randomly guess that means kop is scum everytime and I'll be right too

[Toranaga]

like if both ausuka and dunn are town, where do we even go, right

we go kop/eragon

I don't remember a single eragon post now that I think about it

[Toranaga]

Aye this playerlist is lit AF.

That’s literally the reason I joined even though schools starting.

Driving home from the airport, so will maybe do stuff later
(Or just meme with teh wurst and tora)

I can't believe we're doing this for over a week and I haven't even meme'd with you yet

oh btw I was thinking of running 48/24 games here, with plurality lynch w/o maj on d1 and then plurality w maj from d2+. it's much faster than games on MS normally are but honestly a lot of games here are fucking dead so it'd be nice to try something different for a change.

[Toranaga]

we've got a couple hours might as well use 'em

Anyone else around?

@Huntress, what would you say if I told you scummy word choices were a reason to townread Keyser?

pedit: whatever you're thinking

Spoiler:

i mean, there 4 posts dont really have much to read off, tbh id read them more off the flips.

If volxen is town then i might look at them/sesq a bit more, but if Volxen is mafia i think huntress is going to be quite towny.
i know bussing is a possibility, but how easy is it to just come in, state intent to hammer, and vote sesq?
Instead, they came into the thread, gave a few starting reads, then said they dont want a sesq lynch and voted Keyzer.
then said they're fine with volxen, but preferably not sesq, so more defending sesq, who was at (L-1 was it?) and a few more reads.

so if i had to make a read right now i think id give them a town lean for their posts

[Toranaga]

yeah I'm not reading your ISO now

ok guys, I tried solving, you saw

I can't really mafia on MS lol

[Toranaga]

eragon you'd like those games I'm sure. it really fits your style.

I can't really mafia on MS like this cause I need to interact with people in real time and there's almost nobody on when I'm on and I can't just talk to myself like this.

[Toranaga]

man it just bores me to death to read ISOs here

I need some stimulae

I'll try again in a few hours dw

[Toranaga]

hahahaha its totally your avatar

I just didn't even notice it was you and kept skipping your posts

[Toranaga]

dw I'm listening to linkin park for you

ok I think eragon is town

[Toranaga]

I might be goofballing a townread there when I shouldn't yeah

I thought sesq was way too chaotic to be scum tbh

[Toranaga]

ausuka looks horrible if sesq is town, that's why I wanted to kill her after d1

I'm not reading too much into ausuka's posting

re: NSG. IDK. I don't like her initial posts. she spends a lot of time talking about irrelevant stuff and feels like busywork to me. otoh I have seen her towngame and I think she does try too hard to look at every minor thing and has a bunch of her own ideas about mafia that I don't necessarily agree with, so there's definitely an element of our styles and the way we view the whole thing being way too different for me to actively enjoy her posting. I don't understand why she'd get so focused on GNB preemptively bothered with being townread for trying too hard. I don't think she really did anything otherwise? didn't push the game in any direction and is just a nonpresence really, since I got here. So IDK. I'd kill eventually, idc.

also I'm on the 3rd linkin park song now

[Toranaga]

she confuses playing poor with being mafia

that's also why people want me dead so much...

[Toranaga]

ok that was a nice 20 minutes with 3 people around

I fucking miss MU

[Toranaga]

Bye

No vote? We need drama. No votes, no drama.

VOTE: donald trump

[Toranaga]

I just read her case and looks pretty empty

[Toranaga]

like maybe dunn is scum and I don't wanna look like a moron for defending him but yeah idk man

I don't like ausuka and NSG this game. I don't love dunn either but I thought he was being pretty perceptive d1 with looking at what ausuka was doing, which was sus a f.

[Toranaga]

I mean this has been excrutiatingly boring game to play so I understand dunn

let's just give someone rope, idc who

let's move on pls

[Toranaga]

ausuka and nsg lel

I know it wasn't to me that you asked but

toranaga knows

[Toranaga]

I mean the thread is opened this whole time, they're not posting anything meaningful cause they don't care enough to do so but sure, I can wait, it's np

[Toranaga]

I'd rather not read into what a dead wolf says tbh

[Toranaga]

I mean it's one thing when he was alive

this is post hammer blablabla wolf, I'm not gonna bother trying to read into

[Toranaga]

I’ve formed good reads looking over dead-scum ISOs (associations).

60% of the time, it works everytime.

I mean he was dead when he made that post

I phrased it poorly

[Toranaga]

VOTE: northsidedgal

[Toranaga]

wouldn't town!northsidegal be completely sure someone is scum already?

wouldn't she be building these beautiful walls of literature about it?

where is all of it? where is any of it?

[Toranaga]

I like that I voted an english girl with a gif from an english show

cultural af

[Toranaga]

I feel bad for anyone that ISOs me trying to determine wtf I'm doing in this game without context

[Toranaga]

there's nothing creepy about monty python

[Toranaga]

I agree dunn backtracking on his ausuka scumread is towny of dunn, idk what that means re: svs tvs svt or anything. it's a good look for him regardless and I think based off d1 the way dunn shaded ausuka doesn't really happen as a svs interaction at all.

[Toranaga]

that just feels wrong to me

I'll read the game later but irrelephant and keyser as scum? wow

maybe I'm a dumbass but that's completely opposite to my reads

[Toranaga]

is burnt-out-town range nsg not in nsg's scum range?

is she that easy to read?

I mean she a style that's suitable for wolfing, you know

oh well

[Toranaga]

oh ok

I felt she was more effort heavy than this as town but if you say so, I really never played against scum nsg before and only played with town her twice

one of the games she posted so much so hard she was still top poster d3 and died n1

and it was a lot of... meta diving people, making very deep reads

this... I haven't read to any depth, but it's one of those slots where I don't townread anything too hard and I scumread some posts

like when she clears ausuka d1, it's a little hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Toranaga]

yeah I'm probably wrong :shrug:

who we lynching then

are we townreading ausuka now?

[Toranaga]

I mean tbh dunn townreading ausuka there can be seem as opportunistic fake towny stuff

I do that a lot as scum in faster games where this won't be read into super hard, like, playing like shit then becoming top wagon and then coming townreading the counterwagon? it's really effective before people know the things you can do as scum

so there's this side of it, but otoh dunn's read there feels a little organic and within reason cause ausuka's posting was probably easily read as towny around those pages

[Toranaga]

man irrelephant iirc cased the fuck out of volxen d1

it just feels not svs

[Toranaga]

nauci is town as fuck

[Toranaga]

Toranga what did 649 mean

I'm saying I might be scum but dunn is certainly town there

I shitposted a fair amount in this game

[Toranaga]

I townread dunn strongly cause I felt he was catching scum!ausuka d1 before it was cool

it's kind of a conditional read

the other reasons were those, yeah. there are reasons to scumread the slot too, I get it.

[Toranaga]

there's a recent even better one

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=76985

same position of subbing into lolscum slot and trying to play it out.

[Toranaga]

I may play well as scum but I lose a whole lot

[Toranaga]

just bumped that game accidentally lol

anyway yeah, IDK how you can townread me if you also read those games but I'm town this time I swear to baby jesus

[Toranaga]

you're not wrong

[Toranaga]

nooooooooooooooooooo

[Toranaga]

in b4 all 5 of your lynch candidates are town and it's just ausuka and NSG

[Toranaga]

in b4 all 5 of your lynch candidates are town and it's just ausuka and NSG

I've been wrong about my scum reads (but also dunked lots of scum), but I've never been wrong about my strong townreads to my knowledge.

sounds like a noob

[Toranaga]

really man? nauci is like ~always town

[Toranaga]

it's funny nsg gets so townread for doing basically nothing when nauci has so many very deep thoughts and towny attitude all game and you guys don't see it as obvtowning

shrug

[Toranaga]

ok lets lynch dunn, sure

but if it's town

aus/nsg is still where I'm at

VOTE: dunnstrall

[Toranaga]

I'm townreading it but it's such a hero read for thin things it's not really relevant and it's not strong

[Toranaga]

I'll he kind of attentive in an hour or so

UNVOTE: ausuka

I'm voting to hammer this later, I might decide to read it when I'm back

[Toranaga]

UNVOTE: dunnugh

im dumb

ok

[Toranaga]

volxen was fairly easy catch yeah

I like how we spent part of d2 parading around how obviously scum he was on d1

poor dude

[Toranaga]

ah yeah, maybe

I need to do a thing then I'm here to read the game and hopefully catch those associations if they're there

[Toranaga]

1k posts isn't actually that much so let's get to it

[Toranaga]

should start with this NSG ISO, since it's the one slot my read really radically differs from everyone else.

first 10 posts are objectively scum indicative to me. she spends a good amount of time overexplaining how it "doesn't make sense" and "seems kinda fake" for GNB to be bothered with getting townread for effort early on, just to end on a note that it didn't even ping her on a scum level (see below). she explains sesq mindset for sesq in #27, in a reply to keyser, for absolutely no reason and without even undersatanding what sesq's post was about. I know by now and I never read differently, that sesq was literally just asking to be townread? and NSG takes keyser's misinterpretation of it and answers sesq for her without even considering the possibility that sesq was not being ironic in that post.

so here is the post she says she is not pinged by GNB:

dunnstral seems kind of scummy right now, so that's a good a place as any for a vote.

i remember someone asking or pondering upon why i wasn't voting GNB if i was apparently scumreading him, and while i didn't and still don't really understand the mindset of what he was saying, it didn't really ping me as all that scum indicative on an instintcutal level.

anyways,
VOTE: dunnstral

consider NSG is veteran enough to understand that nonsensical thinking does not equal scummy and that questioning nonsense will very often lead to dead ends. also consider that, it's not actually that hard to see GNB's posting there as towny or understand why he'd be bothered with townreads for effort. I can see town thinking like this, even though ofc it doesn't bother me to be getting free passes for posting many words, and more importantly, even if I didn't understand it I'd be coming from a position of "is this scum motivated?" when challenging GNB on his views, which isn't something NSG is doing here. she is writing many words that lead the game nowhere, instead of pursuing things she finds alignment indicative. I'm very bothered that she'd spend half her posting at this point pursuing something that didn't even ping her at all in the first place. what pinged her? dunnstral. why didn't se ask dunnstral anything, then? why isn't she going after him, instead of creating this pointless conversation with GNB?

so I'm already at a point here, that NSG needs to town the fuck up very hard for me to townread her slot overrall and I, quite frankly, don't remember much of anything I saw from her that got me there yet. we'll see...

I think Keyser is town from the quick glancing I made. I have played with Keyser quite a bit under a different alias on another website, and kinda know what his town game is, and what his scum game is. Unless his game play is different over here compared to over on the other website I play with him, but at the moment, I am getting his town game play from what I've seen so far.

how accurate would you say you are when it comes to reading keyser? i just want to know your degree of confidence here.

on a different note, kop's staccato sentences with all of the commas are standing out to me. from memory i don't really remember him talking like that, although i could certainly be wrong here. i'm going to check for myself soon (if not right after this then this should serve as a reminder), but does anyone else who's played with kop remember that?

again. this is GNB's nonread all over again. she is voting dunnstral without talking about him at all in any meaningful way, and then starts going over... commas? and if he is now talking in commas, so what? is that anything indicative? why is she not talking about her actual scumread? why are the things NSG points out so blatantly not scummy things at all?

For real though I've got no clue what Kop's normal posting style is like - why do you think the commas are AI?

saying that my opinion is "commas are scummy" is an utter misrepresentation of what i'm trying to say

he's typing in an awkward manner and it's an awkward manner that i'm not sure i remember him doing in the games i've seen him as town

not sure how you could frame that as my opinion being "commas are scummy"

no, dunn is right. you're quite literally shading someone's punctuation instead of going deep over their thoughts or anything smart. this is fake scumhunting if I've ever seen one and I'm astonished, I'm appalled, I'm confused and sad this is being townread.

I mean, that looks like exactly what you're saying here, except replace that with "Kop's commas are scummy"

i began a response to this a day or so ago but never finished it

the statement "kop's commas are scummy" implies that in a vacuum i think that the use of commas is scum-indicative (patently absurd). the punctuation itself is secondary to my main point - i noticed a stylistic difference between the way someone was typing here and the way that i remember that same person typing in a previous game as scum. i don't think anyone would possibility dispute that that has a very good chance of being in some way meaningful.

-shrug-

you're being far less reasonable than i typically expect you to be, and i'm not sure if i should take it as scum-indicative or not

this is how she is talking about someone she is voting right now. her dunn read had 0 progression so far, and her other reads had 0 progression so far. "not sure if scum indicative or not" is so slimy, too. can't it be town indicative? why don't you go one step above "you're not understanding my POV" here? is the fact that he is mocking your read alignment indicative? what is your kop read anyway? blablabla commas, and so what, is there anything else?

literally not pushing anything reasonable and not progressing the gamestate in any way. I can't see this as anything else but stalling the game. there's nothing towny here. also "you're being far less reasonable than I expect" is so over the top I wonder if it makes dunn scum with NSG. cause dunn mocks NSG, but also makes no read there, and then NSG overreacts to it. it just feels slimy from both parts.

Not sure I buy into NSG’s “staccato sentence/comma” theory - unless you can clearly show Kop only posting this style as scum, I think it’s too reachy for my taste.

wasn't much of a "theory" in the first place, nor something to "buy into" before more research was done. despite how dunnstral may want you to look at it, it was really only ever something that stuck out to me as being potentially a thing / relevant, hence my asking anyone else for information. honestly, i still haven't done the meta on kop that i wanted to.

Because NSG is hard townreading you and one of the following is true:
-She's town and probably correct
-She's scum and correct
-You're both scum <--- in this situation, I have no useful reads on any players, so I'm assuming it's not this

ah, the mathdino-style reads. i love it!

234 posts into the game and it's still just empty. what NSG did twice already, and then upped her postcount with, and very little else, was:

1 - she does a bad/unnecessary nitpicky take on a slot (GNB townreading thing, kop's commas);
2 - she then defends that her point of view is valid when people find it strange.

other reads? ausuka is town, no reasons given, dunn is scummy, no reasons given.

235 is the hedgiest read ever

then this

it angers me the way dunnstral has framed my argument, genuinely.

maybe they're just scum together. if NSG is voting him and thinks he "framed" her, why isn't she casing him? are you genuinely upset with someone you think it's scum cause they're trying to win? just what mindset is this?

dunnstral seems kind of scummy right now, so that's a good a place as any for a vote.

wHY

mainly i felt like -nothing- he was saying early was actually town indicative, which on its own might not make that much sense (not noticing towny things = scum?) but i feel like it's relevant. if someone is town thwn i would expect that they would show it in some way. here's what i mean (aka my shitty mathdino-style "lolcase" that will, going off of previous experience, get me either scumread or into a very stupid argument that lasts longer than it should):

Spoiler:

We end up at 4 people alive but 1 person is confirmed town (watcher) or there's a cc

So it's not worse

completely mechanically speaking, irrelevant to alignment

I mean it's not worse than a regular game at 3 people alive

----

Keyser I don't think I caught you in the game we played, not sure why you think I should be "taking lead" today either

completely mechanical + statement of fact

If Dunnstral flips red I would actually wanna put Irrelephant under closer inspection (i.e ill-timed/ill-formed distancing attempt). Or vice versa. I've enjoyed talking to Irrelephant11 so he's on the green side of null so far.

This is bad preflip stuff and you have to jump to a lot of conclusions to get to this point - also it's not warranted at this time

VOTE: Sesq
This is a good place to put a serious vote

this one is arguable but pointing out questionable play is something that can be done as town or scum, perhaps even especially so as scum given that you have insight into if something is already correct (not that that's an argument for it being more likely to come from scum)

and so on (i'm lazy + washed up), i think this trend continues of things that are reasonable from an entirely objective point of view but don't actually really reveal a town mindset continues

it's also possible i'm biased because of his response to what i said regarding kop which i feel was more unreasonable than i expect from dunnstral

empty case, nothing she even points out that's actually scummy, just "not revealing as towny mindset". those interactions/vote/push with dunn are really really bad.

anyways, i feel as if this game i'm just going to try to get a towncore and go off of poe mainly

town:
northsidegal
2.718281828459 (unfortunate you didn't replace into this slot ducky, i think it's town)
Ausuka
Keyser Söze (presuming i can trust kop on keyser's alignment and just for now - keyser is someone who i plan to do more meta on when i get the energy or when someone bothers me about it enough)
Irrelephant11

that leaves:
{volxen, the worst, Dunnstral, Reundo, Toranaga, Kop}

which feels vaguely alright in terms of a poe

I townread her telling the worst she thinks numbers is town and is sad he didn't sub in there, but look at the phrasing. it's at the very top of her reads, she doesn't need to point out she thinks it's town any further. also, "i feel as if this game i'm just going to try to get a towncore and go off of poe mainly", how can you even tell these things? isn't every game trying to get a towncore and then killing the POE, at least until you get a proper strong scumread? why say this? weird self awareness, I don't like it at all.

what's next in her ISO? townreading hypocrisy for no reason in #298, goes from dunn to sesq without even saying why she thought sesq was scum, or anything really about sesq other than weirdly defending a mindset she didn't even had on that post to keyser.

-shrug-

i'm not particularly concerned about him yet, so i think it's probably fine. i might just tunnel sesq for today and leave it at that.

shame there's no trackers in this setup

and where are you tunneling sesq? you didn't even remember it existed when you made your list, right? and you didn't even explain why you think it was scum.

why are you guys townreading this? should I even keep reading? this is obviously scum, right? I don't care if NSG rolls over and dies every other scumgame of hers. this isn't burn out, this is scum.

[Toranaga]

VOTE: northsidegal

not voting anything else today. I read another 10 posts from her ISO and none of them are towny, many are scummy. it's literally just blending in without a single post that indicates an actual attempt at solving the game. her progressions are non existant, her scum reads are empty, her town reads are blend, this isn't NSG's town game and IDC what your meta is. anyone can make 64 air balloons in posting form as scum, even the person who hates scum the most. IDK what the hell are you guys seeing here, I really don't.

sorry if wrong, don't think so.

[Toranaga]

Yeah that's the strongest thing I'm pulling from it too actually

I guess nsg could be the lynch - like volxen's ISO doesn't rule it out and the way nsg made up BS to push onto sesq instead of volxen is scummy

I wonder if nsg and dunnstral would both be scum in that scenario? Where Dunnstral says the volzen wagon is bad and votes sesq and nsg follows with "reasoning"

dunn is probably scum too, yes

[Toranaga]

dunn is totally scum, his ISO is horrible

[Toranaga]

dunn is totally scum, his ISO is horrible

this is like your 9th flip on dunn case him properly or stop flipping

I always thought scum was in dunn/ausuka/NSG

I re-read that first ausuka post with reads and she is shading both NSG and volxen

so NSG/ausuka is an unlikely pair

the way NSG and dunn interact is very svs

my hero town read on dunn was for really thin things that don't necessarily work if ausuka is town. I never said otherwise. I'm not flip flopping on the read, I'm just not always explaining everything wrt it.

as far as how I built my POE, I don't remember everything but:

irrelephant, nauci, tw and keyser are imo always town. then there's reundo who cased volxen hard and looks town to me as well. then there's eragon, who I keep forgetting why I was supposed to townread.

so it drops to these three slots: dunn, NSG, ausuka.

and ausuka looks a lot better than dunn in interactions with and talking about NSG.

so it's where I'm at.

I could be wrong on eragon, maybe I should ISO him next?

[Toranaga]

yeah probably not eragon

and definitely not keyser or tw

[Toranaga]

I could be wrong on eragon, maybe I should ISO him next?

Can you do Dunnstral post by post first?

well, maybe. IDK if I can really case him cause he is more POE and not objectively as scummy in isolated posts.

what stands out to me the most are his interactions with NSG. this is NOT a pre-flip association, cause both slots just look scummy when addressing each other. I'd note, for instance, that dunn starts mocking NSG for the commas read without pushing her, makes no read on her slot, doesn't react to her overreaction to him doing it in any meaningful manner, and then brings up the same commas topic again on d2 without pushing that read on any direction.

I'd note that dunn was probably the only player who actually managed to townread volxen on d1, and then, I think when volxen became a proper wagon and was getting lynched, he manages to ask this:

Who was town reading Volxen?

and this is... first of all, the answer is "you". but this gives me a lot of pause cause he is defending a slot and shading the entire wagon on that slot when it's likely to flip scum at some point and bite him in the ass. so this is a towny thing he did, but maybe dunn is smart enough to know this won't actually look that bad when backreading the game.

Still think sesq is question dodging

Ausuka votes are kind of weird, though

this is not horrible either...

I kinda like his sesq case. so yeah, I mean, fuck me there's stuff that's towny here. I'm just townreading everyone else more. and his ISO is indeed pretty empty, there's scummy interactions with NSG, and yeah. IDK who else would be scum at this point. maybe I'm lolclearing one of them, IDK, I don't think I'd catch it today though.

[Toranaga]

the way dunn is shading the volxen wagon, really, does he have it in his scum range?

@ anyone that knows dunn

[Toranaga]

P.S. The Eragon slot is like hard gliding right under everyone's radar and that should bother all of y'all a lot

he is one foot above nsg/ausuka/dunn to me

there's literally nothing scummy about keyser btw

[Toranaga]

:ok_hand:
red flip d1 feels good man

drunk ducky gonna slep now gngn

I think this is actually TMI, because he was already like “red flip Day 1 feels good”

I mean, town never KNOWS that the person is scum unless a TI has a guilty, but TW acted like he KNEW volxen was scum, not HOPING that volxen was scum and not actually watcher.

this is the first kinda towny post in eragon's ISO. I didn't like some stuff and kop was hard null.

still reading...

[Toranaga]

eragon's ISO: his reads list seem good, his thoughts seem towny on a surface level

could be scum but it's not really standing out as such and would be a poor lynch

[Toranaga]

it's very possible I antagonized ausuka so hard on d2 that she can't really see me being town for it, and then started that associative read with TW cause he was just siding with me and sheeping it.

I think town eragon is generally townier than this, but if eragon is scum he is putting a very decent effort and looking towny at a few points in this ISO.

I'm having a very difficult time trying to find a proper lynch that isn't NSG, which might reduce the whole thing to just flipping dunnstral and hoping it flips scum

but anyone doing so should take into consideration that he literally shaded volxen's entire wagon when it was L-2 on d1. which isn't a pro-town thing to do, but it doesn't strike as someone who knows alignments.

I was wrong about stuff like that before and he hasn't been oozing towniness anyway.

I think it's gonna be mostly ausuka/nsg or dunn/nsg. I think lynching these 3 and then eragon wins the game.

[Toranaga]

damn speed on those 2 pages since ive been here.

and those frickin walls i wanna kms.

do you want me to catch up through the thread or case Dunn, for better or worse?

catch up please

read my case on NSG

[Toranaga]

ok, real talk

anyone scumreading dunnstral needs to read him shading the volxen wagon when it was L-2 and actually pushing people who voted there. is this in his scum range? because this is objectively towny. a player's first instinct while watching a wolf team mate go down, is to distance themselves from it. universally. dunn is not only not doing that, but actively pushing people with good reasoning behind it. this does not seem like he knows volxen is scum at all.

Spoiler:

I don't really understand the town-reads of volxen. Everything he's posted seems like surface-level scum-hunting based mostly around points that have already been brought up by others, and as a whole it seems like he's much more interested in garnering why player X scum-reads player Y than providing scum-reads of his own. I'm more worried about him than 2.718 at the moment.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: volxen

VOTE: volxen

Yeah, i can see that

VOTE: volxen

VOTE: volxen

VOTE: volxen

This momentum is pretty weird - I don't think Reundo's case in 220 is that compelling. Sesq looks bad here.

Who was town reading Volxen?

Yeah, i can see that

Can you point it out for me?

Yeah, i can see that

Can you point it out for me?

Now would be a good time to explain this Sesq

Still think sesq is question dodging

Ausuka votes are kind of weird, though

[Toranaga]

Pausing from my catch up to point out that this is a bomb-ass post

it is.

[Toranaga]

{Nauci, Irrelephant, Keyser}
{nsg, (will just trust nauci on this particular read since I'm low on towns anyway) dunnstral}
{Eragon, the worst, Toranga}
{reundo}

about here, i'm probably missing something

VOTE: Dunnstral

from here on out just voting whoever I'm supposed to vote.

if anyone sees me signing up for a Mafia game ever again please spam my inbox reminding me not to

does not compute

[Toranaga]

NSG is ~never town btw

but sheep nauci, sure, what do I know

[Toranaga]

it's funny nsg gets so townread for doing basically nothing when nauci has so many very deep thoughts and towny attitude all game and you guys don't see it as obvtowning

shrug

who is you guys 0.0

nauci and the people sheeping her or townreading NSG

there's definitely quite a few

[Toranaga]

ErrantParabola was scum in my last game with Keyser/irrelephant/tw and sounded generally towny without making any particularly committed or controversial reads and coasted by while other players post a lot more for a long time

is this eragon or about eragon?

[Toranaga]

Spoiler: rude comment inside, i apologize in advance

~~if you still think i'm scum you are bad at mafia or you are scum!~~

you have to be really bad mafia to not be able to play like this as mafia

and I'll save the mean comment if you're town

[Toranaga]

IDK

nsg posts literally anything and everyone townreads her

let's just get shit through then

dunn is annoying as well. "why do I have to post?" well good job mate, everyone wants you lynched and this is your contribution

[Toranaga]

Can somebody remind me why we need me specifically to post more in this game? I don't think I caught that

also, do you know why? cause this isn't your standard potato mafiascum game. a lot of people in this are actually good. if all you do is roll over, you get POE'd down and killed.

so gj getting lynched dunn, was a pleasure playing with you my mate

[Toranaga]

[Toranaga]

keyser is town as fuck

[Toranaga]

glad we're seeing the same things wrt dunn

[Toranaga]

ahh, the self-deprecation, always the distancing from yourself being scum, because scum isnt likely to point out where they did bad

FTR: "self-deprecation" doesn't just come from scum.
It is very common for honest townies on mafiascum to be critical of their own game

lol no it's not

if people were critical of their own games town winrate would skyrocket here

[Toranaga]

[Toranaga]

volxen was townier than NSG.

[Toranaga]

in before she is the watcher

[Toranaga]

volxen talked more than nsg
did not solve as much as nsg
reads lacked nuance + making sense + relatability of nsg's

idk I felt volxy was just a wolf

that's how I feel about nsg

[Toranaga]

irrelephant, please take your horn outta your ass and townread keyser already thx

[Toranaga]

can you show me the good points? I haven't answered to anything specifically as far as I can tell, no. but I can if I'm addressed with it.

[Toranaga]

so keyser's scum case is a bunch of thin association reads with volxen and nitpicky angles that don't work

ok

[Toranaga]

{Nauci, Irrelephant, Keyser}
{nsg, (will just trust nauci on this particular read since I'm low on towns anyway) dunnstral}
{Eragon, the worst, Toranga}
{reundo}

about here, i'm probably missing something

can you explain how you think reundo is your biggest scum?
can you explain how you think TW, Tora, and I are scummy?
can you explain your Keyser and NSG TR's?

Reundo is my SR due to my view on the gamestate (Mafia are comfortable now and this sort of town isn't the kind to ace a game based on today, bussing is therefore likely), Keyser things, and the fact he has a wide lynchpool of popular suspects that he's stating willingness to chainlynch. I am open to other ideas but dunn/Keyser isn't really one of those ideas, sorry. Although it doesn't matter what I think really.

Tor is an old read that just decayed over time, tw gives me bad vibes, you're kind of not readable for the most part and some things you do ping me vaguely. Like why am I suddenly 4th scummiest when you've been tunneling me this whole day?

NSG read explanation is in my readslist. Keyser feels genuine and I don't really get how he's meant to be scummy.

you're literally only townreading NSG because nauci is, and nauci is only townreading NSG because NSG doesn't post anything when she is scum normally. she hasn't been towny this game and I think nauci is just taking her for granted here. NSG is smart enough to replicate minimally her town meta. this isn't her town game though. this isn't anyone's town game, this is scum.

[Toranaga]

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=76520

NSG's towngame that I mentioned, she drawed the n1 nightkill

[Toranaga]

that was a bad towngame reads wise

you were obviously town there though

you had pure content throughout

[Toranaga]

well she is pushing nada here

[Toranaga]

I'll maintain that both wolves are in ausuka/nsg/dunn and if we kill all of them we win the game most of the time

if you wanna lynch dunn this gameday, I'm not gonna stop you.

[Toranaga]

well she is pushing nada here

wrong? like, i'm still pushing for dunnstral's lynch. i'm not sure how you can say that that isn't what i'm doing

you're pushing a slot that many people want lynched and they've cased/tried to figure him out a lot harder than you did

and that's the only player you're pushing to any noticeable extent. I read the game you were low effort in and it's not like that at all.

[Toranaga]

holy wall jesus christ

[Toranaga]

yeah idk man

I think dunn gets lynched regardless of this read on him

I think with you that at least 3 if not more people, that think the way he defended volxen doesnt really happen as svs. I'm the one who initially postulated this idea ITT and I think it's correct, but it's absolutely very very thin and his attitude/posts outside of that are not towny. it's quite the hero read given the context where dunn is just potatoing the game really hard.

I absolutely don't understand anything on your paragraph about NSG. also I think between her and ausuka, ausuka is a lot townier and the town between the two if there is one town between the two.

[Toranaga]

I should ISO reundo and read him with attention now that I think of it.