mini normal 2027: advice mafia (endgrame)

[Brian Skies]

nauci replaces hewhoswims!

Ah, it was

you

.

It's okay, it's not like I've read anything yet anyway.

[Brian Skies]

basically we lynched a mason d1 their partner was killed n1 then we lynched scum and rc got shot for being town and Havo is suuuuuuper wolfy

Does this mean I don't have to read anymore?

[Brian Skies]

VOTE: Ruby Red

[Brian Skies]

Okay.

[Brian Skies]

Confirmed Town
DoubtingThomas/Krazy
FA_Q2
RadiantCowbells

Completely Trustworthy (Me!)

Havo
horror/HWS/nauci

Sky
Saudade/Ruby Red <- Date?
texcat

Innocent/Gamma

Garmr

Confirmed Scum
Wh4T



Fred/Tor/the worst <-- I have no idea but POE town I guess


I'll try catching up again tomorrow or Saturday.

VOTE: Garmr

[Brian Skies]

VOTE: texcat

[Brian Skies]

I'm pretty sure this is Gamma's town game.

Please vote texcat. Thank you.

[Brian Skies]

Reading the other 60 pages.

[Brian Skies]

Just start with texcat and do popcorn.

[Brian Skies]

If you're going to be busy, then just claim.

(don't think it's a good idea regardless but maybe I'll realize why when I'm caught up)

Also, you're protesting the massclaim but don't have an actual reason to do so? o.O

[Brian Skies]

My default position is always against claiming unless I see a reason to do so and I haven't gotten to a part where that would be

If there are three scum in this game (not necessarily, but a strong possibility considering it's a normal game), then a mislynch today might put us into Lylo tomorrow.

Do you want to sit in Lylo with potential counterclaims? Or would you rather lock scum down in their claims today?

[Brian Skies]

I'm a Vanilla Townie.

Also, Skygazer scumclaimed. Please lynch.

VOTE: Skygazer

[Brian Skies]

To explain, Normal Games have to use whitelisted roles. And Traffic Analyst (or PT cop) isn't a whitelisted role.

Normal games must adhere to the Normal Game Rules. Those rules are (mostly) re-stated here, but it's recommended to be familiar with those rules if you're planning to play, or especially moderate, a normal game.

We will be removing the greylist rule, which previously allowed one non-whitelisted role in mini games and two in large games. The whitelist will be expanded to compensate.

Normal Games must use only approved roles, and can use any combination (so long as there is at least one Vanilla Townie) in conjunction with approved modifiers.

"But maybe Schadd had his setup reviewed before they implemented the change to normal games"

He signed up to mod a normal game (July 14, 2018)

after

the changes were implemented (May 7, 2018). So his game wouldn't have been approved with a non-whitelisted role.

in to mod a miniature normal

[Brian Skies]

"Opening post will be updated with a note for this." -> Never proceeds to update opening post or Wiki. >.>

[Brian Skies]

Oh, he put it in a footnote.

[Brian Skies]

VOTE: Texcat

Maybe I was wrong on the Horror/HWS/Nauci slot.

[Brian Skies]

Ew paranoia just set in wrt Sky’s claim
Tex mentioning Havo being able to confirm the loud part of the role made me concerned that the claiming having targeted 2 dead people could be a cover for the the claim not having actual backing
Please tell me if I’m being an idiot

^This feels like town paranoia, mostly because I was concerned about similar things regarding Sky's softing while catching up.

However, I feel like that's something that might resolve itself in the Night Phase, so \o/.

[Brian Skies]

and girls too obv

I don't not want skygazer and tex to vote because of their gender

Not going to happen. I'm not voting claimed masons on D1.

VOTE: Radiant Cowbells

I thought this was town, but I can't see town continuing the push to lynch claimed masons.

FA_Q2 (7):

RadiantCowbells, Skygazer, Havo, Completly Trustworthy, the worst, Garmr, Gamma Emerald

These people can't all be scum, but this is a good place to start.

VOTE: Garmr

^I also feel like these interactions are likely to come from scum who knows town is lynching masons and trying to avoid blowback while setting themselves up to lynch off that wagon in the future. She also didn't do anything to actually shift the momentum of that wagon (I acknowledge she voted RC, but she did nothing with it) which makes me think she was fine with where the wagon was, she just didn't want to be on it herself.

Contrast that with Saudade who (now we know was probably a mason) threw a fit and tried to move the wagon elsewhere before rage-quitting.

[Brian Skies]

If you are so loud and so stupid that the entire mason team simply stops caring about the game then you will lose your tprs

Krazy was already a claimed mason. So it seems kind of silly to refer to themselves as an entire team if there were only two of them. Otherwise they're just setting themselves up for failure again.

I don't think judging a setup without knowing the scumteam's roles is a wise idea.

The masons seem like they'd give a false positive to a traffic analyst as is. And I don't think a traffic analyst can even find last scum anyway. Jailkeeper is a hit or miss role that is typically skillbased. And fruit vendor is mostly a 'hey I'm clear if there's only one scum left' sort of role.

Traffic analyst would also explain why the mod felt the need to declare there was no possibility of a traitor in this game.

If you want to go off of play, then Saudade was probably town based on his interactions around the mason wagon anyway, and he probably ragequit out of pure townie frustration.

Skygazer, on the other hand, is a bit sketchier, but only in that the people she checks died right after she checked them. I don't have any particular issues with who she checked though. RC was softing some sort of PR and he was one of the main drivers of the Mason wagon, on top of him having a reputable scum game. I do believe she was scumreading the worst before she checked him (probably need to double check this), so don't really have qualms with that. And then there's Havo which I'm pretty sure some people wanted yesterday. So these are three checks on three somewhat controversial slots that probably would have been up for some sort of debate (the worst might be arguable since I'm most going off of memory regarding that). In terms of who actually ended up dying, the masons were outed on Day 1, so krazy dying over anyone else seems like a no brainer (although slightly surprising considering RC floated around the existence of a JK and probably either indicates a scumteam that was willing to take the risk hoping the JK would protect RC instead or one that had a strongman). RC pretty much drove the Wh4t wagon, so another unsurprising kill N2 (and he was softing PR anyway). The Worst is actually a bit of a surprising kill to me, but might make sense if either the scumteam didn't think he was lynchable or if they just didn't want to interact with town him (or if he was softing).

[Brian Skies]

Skygazer could just be a Mafia Rolecop, I guess.

Either way, I still don't like the way texcat interacted with the Mason wagon (as well as the way she pointed fingers at those players the following day). And Nauci makes me question my read on his slot (which makes me less inclined to go Sky's direction today).

[Brian Skies]

A Loud Mafia Rolecop seems really weird to include though.

[Brian Skies]

What do you mean you don't like the way I interacted? I unvoted after we had claimed and confirmed masons. I can't imagine why you would dislike that.

What do you mean confirmed? The knuckleheads couldn't even crumb masons properly.

All you did was avoid the wagon and give a completely limpwristed push against RC (who was the main driver of the wagon) and then shade the entire wagon the next day.

[Brian Skies]

I would like to hear from Nauci before any of you decide to end the day on me again.

[Brian Skies]

Because right now I’m very concerned about the claims by Ruby and Sky.

I understand Sky, but why Ruby?

[Brian Skies]

VOTE: texcat
Nothing better comes to mind rn so I’m just gonna go with my scumread on Tex that I had D1 that Tex has done nothing to change

why are you fucks joining the obvious counterwagon smdh

Why aren’t you supporting this, you wanted it all of D1 right?

Lynch obvscum semi slipped AtE flailing Havo. Texcat has shown some signs of towniness, I'd call that a bad policy lynch

lol @ rubez voteparking me while I'm low effort
if she doesn't post like more regularly and reasonably well I can't recommend giving that slot a pass

Maybe she’s shown signs of towniness but she’s still ringing scum to me.
Plus how tf can it be a counter wagon to something with 1 vote?

Look at where my vote is

VOTE: Garmr
No sell on the AtE WIFOM

Out of curiosity, what prompted you to change votes from Texcat to Garmr yesterday?

[Brian Skies]

I know what they both mean, yes.

[Brian Skies]

Actually, nevermind. Probably not as egregious as I thought it could have been.

I'm mostly just waiting on Nauci, I guess. Supposedly his V/LA ends today, so \o/.

[Brian Skies]

-80 CT- I basically hate this IIOA/LAMIST post

What about that post was IIOA or Lamist to you?

-104 fa_q2- this is also towny af what the hell guys

What's so towny about it?

[Brian Skies]

As for my tier'd reads

[schadd_]
[Havo, CT, RC]
[Fred, Sky, Garmr, Wh4t]
[IAI, Sau, tex, FA]
[DT]

Lack of hard townreads isn't great

Middle 4 need to prove themselves imo, I don't suspect any of them honestly (apart from the DT-Garmr association which is unproven until flip) but fred/sky are rather inactive, Wh4t hasn't given me any vibes in either direction (which is going to be a scumlean if it remains that way I think..) Garmr's little things around the DT fiasco are decent-ish but not enough to put him with the three above him

RC why lynch Wh4t? My read on him hasnt changed so I'm not really scumreading. What makes him your first priority?

These posts make me wrinkle my nose a bit as I'm unsure why he's so concerned about RC's desire to lynch Wh4t here. Particularly because HWS was null-possibly scumleaning Wh4t based on his prior post. So maybe that was just a weak distancing attempt from a buddy.

By all means enlighten me on town!FA.

OK HWS. Give me the benefit of the doubt for the moment. I have just replaced in, I need time to interact. Unvote so that Garmr doesn't hammer. We have an extra 24 hours, there is no rush in this dayphase.

Then, I'd like you to write in a single sentence your case on FA.

After that, I will explain why you are wrong and then who is getting lynched today.

UNVOTE:

I just don't think FA did anythign that made me think he were town and part of my vote was to see what it would do with the game.

Wow firemen are sure taking long showing up to this dumpster fire

I think the claim is believable? Just tell me why masons couldn't possibly distance? Or what scum would gain from fakeclaiming a mason pair and then not get killed for 3 nights...

Worried. I'm liking Krazy better. Plus I believe the claim.

This is difficult to read since I'm pretty sure it all happened in the span of about a day or so and 1258 didn't come until after Krazy claimed/indicated being a mason. But I'm not a fan of his 'kind of random' 180 on his FA read after FA got hammered. It kind of feels like him trying to spew town based on an impending flip, but once again, hard to tell based on the timing of events.

Tex again commenting but not progressing it seems. (page 12)

This I just find to be a really weird comment in general.

[Brian Skies]

Skygazer being mafia did occur to me but if she is then Havo has to be most likely

[Brian Skies]

Not to be insensitive or anything, but I kinda just want to save schadd the hassle and lynch Nauci.

[Brian Skies]

VOTE: Nauci

[Brian Skies]

Why Nauci over Gamma or texcat?

I'm scumreading Nauci anyway, and he didn't answer my questions before replacing out, so...why bother waiting for a replacement?

Have you iso'ed Gamma or Nauci like you said you would?

Consider this: if nauci flips town and scum has a roleblocker I'll likely be roleblocked if there is one (the fact that RC was a jailkeeper and Krazy still died makes me think there's a heavy chance RC could've been RB'd)

Meh.

I think a Strongman is just as plausible as a Roleblocker.

texcat is my biggest scum read here atm and the fact that she just quickly jumped onto Nauci reeks of survivalism and makes me think that Nauci flips town here because it doesn't feel like distancing. I feel like we should wait for a replacement to come in and give actual sortable input which Nauci gave us none because of her situation so we can actually narrow down which two of Gamma/tex/nauci is scum.

I still think texcat could be scum. I'm still fine with lynching her.

If there's no RB, and we mislynch, then there is a decent chance you die since you're still an investigative role. If we lynch scum and there's no RB, then you should still be a threat since you can confirm yourself as town.

I don't really care that much about a 'hypothetical scumrole that may not even exist.'

[Brian Skies]

<- Also indicated suspicion or a scumread on Nauci for pretty much the entirety of the day.

[Brian Skies]

did i incorrectly locktown CT

cause that was one of RC's strong scum reads and like the way Brian just voted Nauci with texcat is eh

Also, your 180 here when you don't even have a stance regarding Nauci/Gamma is noted.

[Brian Skies]

Why does that matter? You’re voting with the person you were just voting.

Who cares?

If you're tracking my reads, then you would know that texcat and Nauci are at the bottom of my reads?

Since this is a mini, there are ~1-2 scum in this game.

Stop acting like I can only vote one scumread ever.

[Brian Skies]

At first, I thought Horror's early post about struggling with the game to be town-indciative because I also struggled with the first 14 pages or so. However, now I feel like it was probably scum that couldn't get into the game. I especially feel this way regarding Nauci since she mostly just made a fairly lamist catch-up post that she admitted was not helpful in 1859. Not to mention in that very post, he chastised us for the FA lynch because 104 was 'towny af' even though FA was pretty much just answering an RQS (which shouldn't even be alignment indicative). A lot of the other comments is just commenting based on known alignments and buddying Havo. Not to mention that in 1967, she's scumreading my predecessor for 'effort.' Yes, let that sink in, effort is apparently a scumtell.

Nauci also opposed the massclaim but admitted she didn't even have a reason. And it's not like she had any sensitive information to withhold/share as she claimed VT.

Not to mention the concerns I brought up about HWS in 1962.

I think the slot is scummy. I don't want to wait for a replacement because I can't hold that person responsible for the things I would be scumreading their predecessors for. I can't just be like 'why did you say x' or 'why did you do x' because they aren't the person that said or did it.

I also don't want to have to figure out how to sort a replacement in Lylo.

I'm also not appreciative of people bitching and moaning about 'apathy' or 'why are you voting this person instead of the person you were voting before' instead of actually thinking about my intentions or motivations or the fact that I was already scumreading Nauci and stated my desire to lynch Nauci before texcat even voted.

It's not like any of you have shown much interest (if any) in sorting Gamma/Nauci, so instead of the lazy finger pointing, how about you all actually do something and try to sort the slots yourselves.

And I'm especially calling Gamma out since he seems more than happy to shade the PR claims but doesn't seem all that interested in sorting the VT claims.

[Brian Skies]

Anyhow, we've got four days.

And to be honest, I did come into today thinking texcat was probably the best lynch, but I'm not really sure she is anymore. Basically, I thought Gamma would still have an incredibly awkward scumgame. But after taking a look through some of his more recent games, I'm not so sure about that anymore, especially since he seems to be improving.

Also, the entire 'texcat isn't progressing the game' and 'texcat isn't putting in effort' or whatever arguments don't really resonate with me.

And I guess I can see how someone wouldn't want to vote a mason on Day 1 if someone else claimed mason with them. Or how someone might think Garmr wasn't remorseful enough about lynching a mason on Day 1.

Also, not really a huge fan of a tex/Nauci scumteam because that would mean the Wh4t wagon was an all-town wagon (cue Havo and the 'this site is obsessed with bussing', because it's true).

Also, some paranoia on Gamma regarding the Wh4t wagon since his scumread and vote there seemed to come out of nowhere (1489, 1491.

[Brian Skies]

Skygazer could just be a Mafia Rolecop, I guess.

this thought occurred to me

3 masons in an 11 person game. Keeps eating at me.

Like, I get the paranoia.

But stuff like this isn't helpful and makes the game harder.

Also, I'm not infallible. And if it's so important to lynch scum

today

, then obviously it's important that I'm not just deathtunneling a townie.

[Brian Skies]

Gamma, what are your reads?

[Brian Skies]

What are your thoughts regarding what I've said about the Nauci slot?

[Brian Skies]

Also, can you explain your scumread on texcat?

[Brian Skies]

Idk, kinda skimmed that

Read it again.

Already posted it

Can you explain it again?

[Brian Skies]

I feel like texcat has been coasting, which was similar to how they played in another game where we were both scum, so I think Tex is employing the same strategy

Coasting how? Can you demonstrate this? Looking through her iso I don't get the same feeling.

[Brian Skies]

You guys actually lynched Nauci...

I'll take full responsibility for this lynch. But I don't understand how most of you don't discuss reads with each other.

[Brian Skies]

A couple of thoughts before the thread gets locked.

Havo confirmed Sky’s action so either Sky’s real action is loud or Havo is scum with her

If Havo somehow flips scum and game doesn't end, then Sky is absolutely scum.

However, 'loud' is confirmable.

I don't understand how, after we've already discussed the worst and maybe RC indicating that aspect of her role, you continue to ignore that.

Sky flipping scum would not necessarily incriminate Havo, especially if the 'loud' aspect of her role is true.

gamma and nauci isos later

Why Nauci over Gamma or texcat?

Consider this: if nauci flips town and scum has a roleblocker I'll likely be roleblocked if there is one (the fact that RC was a jailkeeper and Krazy still died makes me think there's a heavy chance RC could've been RB'd) and Ruby will be night killed leaving no one mechanically clear in lylo. texcat is my biggest scum read here atm and the fact that she just quickly jumped onto Nauci reeks of survivalism and makes me think that Nauci flips town here because it doesn't feel like distancing. I feel like we should wait for a replacement to come in and give actual sortable input which Nauci gave us none because of her situation so we can actually narrow down which two of Gamma/tex/nauci is scum.

like it worries me that people are trying to tie me into a havo scum team because neither of us flip town and scum certainly doesnt want to kill me if they can leave me alive with no further results through a rb or whatever

esp because my flip creates a clear

This also bothers me, but mostly because I feel like you should have put more effort in sorting Gamma/Nauci if you're so worried about a RB, and I don't believe you put any in today.

Nobody will be a

cop

, a psychologist, a ninja, or a

traitor

Anyhow, if Nauci flips town, then idk, I messed up and I'll take the blame for it.

I don't believe scum can use a role and kill in the same night (probably need to doublecheck this). So if Nauci flips scum, then we should know whether Star is town or not tomorrow. Regarding her claim, I do have some mild paranoia, but I still can't get over the mod feeling the need to reveal to us that there's no cop or traitor in this game (and I guess psychologist). And the only other major PR we had was JK, and I don't see how that has any relevance to any of the roles whose nonexistence were confirmed to us.

I don't see Ruby being anything other than a mason here just based on the language Krazy chose to use. If she is somehow scum, then kudos to her and I'll get over it.

[Brian Skies]

Texcat, did you get any confirmation of Sky visiting you last night?

[Brian Skies]

Mafia must specify which member is performing the factional kill each night.

A mafia member may not both kill and use a power role in the same night by default.

^This is from the normal games page on the Wiki. I also confirmed with the mod that it's still the standard for normal games.

I can't see it being anyone other than tex or Sky, so I want to take Sky up on her offer and lynch her today.

VOTE: Sky

[Brian Skies]

Who do you think is scum, Sky?

[Brian Skies]

Just because it's the standard default, doesn't mean that it has to be that way, does it? It seems to me that I've seen PMs that said you can't use a power and kill unless you are the only remaining scum.

I'm not part of the NRG, and this is the first Normal game I've played in a while and definitely the first since they starting making changes to the Normal Game Guidelines, so I cannot answer to this.

I will concede that 'multitasker' is a modifier that has been whitelisted.

However, generally speaking, when a rule is considered to be the standard, then it should be reasonable for players to assume that is the case unless the moderator says otherwise. And after asking him about it, he did tell me that the rule still applies to the game.

Now, could there be a 'multitasking roleblocker'? Sure, but how does that fit into a game with a confirmed fruit vendor and a second 'loud role'?

I also really did not like the way she ignored Gamma/Nauci yesterday and flipped her read on me the instant I voted for Nauci. She also gave a lot of the speculation as a sort of defense of Nauci, so I'm highly skeptical of the situation we're in since it feels set up to me.

[Brian Skies]

A traffic analyst makes so much sense in this setup with the masons though.

It does!

Which does lead me to another point in terms of balance considering we already flipped two goons. However, I don't really want to go into that since setup balance is not my thing.

[Brian Skies]

A traffic analyst makes so much sense in this setup with the masons though.

What would your read on her be independently of her claim?

[Brian Skies]

Oh, I don't remember seeing any from Day 1.

Can you show me?

[Brian Skies]

What are people's thoughts on a Multitasking Roleblocker being in the same game as a Jailkeeper?

[Brian Skies]

Alright.

UNVOTE: Sky

I'm fine with a Gamma lynch. He was actually my first choice coming into today, but Normal Games seem to have gotten really weird since last time I played one. I can explain my read there if someone wants me to.

[Brian Skies]

VOTE: Gamma

[Brian Skies]

If you're so certain Sky is town, then you're more than welcome to vote me.

[Brian Skies]

VOTE: Skygazer

[Brian Skies]

If I did, I wouldn't be voting her.

[Brian Skies]

Okay. I'm going to continue to do things unrelated to this site.

Let me know if you need anything from me.

[Brian Skies]

and the way you unvoted me yesterday and hammered gamma with no given intent spews me as the designated lylo mislynch

Alright.

UNVOTE: Sky

I'm fine with a Gamma lynch. He was actually my first choice coming into today, but Normal Games seem to have gotten really weird since last time I played one. I can explain my read there if someone wants me to.

I straight up said that I could explain my read on Gamma if someone wanted me to, and even said I would be okay voting there. And I did make sure that everyone had a chance to at least post before hammering.

And everyone seemed to think the last scum was Gamma, myself included, so...?

[Brian Skies]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

It's not like we didn't already have everyone's claim.

[Brian Skies]

It has nothing to do with knowing your alignment or not. So I don't really know why you're positing that it is.

[Brian Skies]

like the vote comes immediately after stating my night action which looms like a reaction to me stating my night action and youve said nothing about scumreading me today or townreading me today

if you're coming into lylo with a straight up naked vote with no stated reasoning then thats worse

How astute of you to notice.

I have reasons. I just don't want to give them to texcat.

[Brian Skies]

She's more than welcome to have a discussion with me, which is what I told her.

[Brian Skies]

Freedom!

Yay!

[Brian Skies]

If you're scum I'm seriously saying that you should just give up on this game. Take the loss.
I will get fucking brutal if that's what I need to do to guarantee this lynch, I haven't been gentle this game but you've seen absolutely nothing from me compared to what I will do.

Also FTR that needs to die before wh4t because it's more of a threat to the long term town wincon if its town

FA_Q2

->

Krazy

->

Saudade

->

Wh4t

This is probably my favorite post of this game, and further establishes masons being naturally scummy in my mind.

[Brian Skies]

At least one mason took it as an opportunity to be incredibly condescending, and they chose to distance from each other for who knows what reason. I can't say they didn't deserve to be lynched.

At least Krazy had the wherewithal to crumb a third mason without making it obvious, and he did so very well.

[Brian Skies]

Honestly, it doesn't make any sense for a multitasking roleblocker to exist in the same setup as a jailkeeper, let alone a fruit vendor and a loud role as well. It defeats the purpose of the setup.

[Brian Skies]

Anyhow, I thought this was a really interesting setup as far as the town side was concerned.

If I were texcat, I wouldn't beat myself too much over this game just based on how some things played out.