Open 739: Epic Duel [Game Over]

[Shoshin]

I'm town, but I understand why people would be suspicious. I haven't done anything. But I'm here now to discuss.

Irrelephant, have you read the whole game?

[AnonymousGhost]

Shoshin wandered in from the breakfast bar, unperturbed by the simmering tensions between the others, and propped her feet up on the table as she watched the conversations flit back and forth like bullets in the wind.

Easy is as easy does though.

Light Ethos and FA_Q2 approached her, suspicious of her laid back demeanor, but she paid them no mind as she ate her hash browns.

Vote Count 1.7

Shoshin: Light Ethos, FA_Q2, BrightEyedFish
Irrelephant11:
Garmr:
Light Ethos:
FA_Q2: Nicolas Cage,
BuJaber:
BrightEyedFish: PenguinPower, BuJaber, Irrelephant11, Shoshin, Garmr
Nicolas Cage:
PenguinPower:

Not Voting:

Plurality Lynch Mechanic In Play: the player with the most votes by the end of the Duel deadline will be killed.

Deadline: (expired on 2018-10-19 19:37:30)

[Irrelephant11]

I've skimmed the whole game
I was reading along to try to continue practicing reading you and RC and also because the setup was interesting
I wasn't reading as someone with investment in the outcome but I have some idea what has happened so far

[Shoshin]

So why BrightEyed?

[FA_Q2]

I guess I should start putting effort now.

Irrelephant, you around? Let's discuss the game?

Not usually on weekends, but I'm here now! You?

That was garbage.

VOTE: Shoshin

lol
shoshin is ~80% likely to be town here, move your vote

That was garbage.

I agree

Who did Light Ethos replace?

Too lazy to check for yourself?
Too obvious.
VOTE: Shoshin

This is also crap
Like in what world is it scum motivated to ask a question for which the answer is in the OP? She's, what, trying to play lazy town?

Eh I actually see what you might see here, but I still think this is a bad vote

Then tell me what makes Io scum.

[AnonymousGhost]

Prodding Nicolas Cage and nudging PenguinPower.

(expired on 2018-10-16 10:35:52)

[Irrelephant11]

Oh I don't remember, I just started with RC's thing
But his posts last page aren't stellar
Wait isn't Io now BrightEyed? Yeah
He can still be my vote while I really catch up

Where would you put my vote?

[Shoshin]

Io was scum because she was playing from an informed perspective, and BightEyed's jump on me feels very opportunistic and shallow in a scummy way as well. On top of that, you have some strong players - RC, BuJabe - agreeing that this slot is scum.

So, Io's slot is the right vote imo

[FA_Q2]

Well, I would put it with me on shoshin. Claiming that we should follow up on RC's reads (as though RC has some inside information which we know to be false) but not putting a vote anywhere and then jumping on as soon as someone puts a vote up - scummy. Claiming that there is a real reason that she is voting there and then not having one at all is scummier.

Why does townshoshin lose interest like this but scum shoshin not? If the driving factor is RC, then it would be NAI.

Could always go back to NC. Still do not like that slot much - a bunch of OMGUS and then purposefully casing a player that is no longer in the game is scummy as fuck. The useless excuse of not casing because we were locked into the duel BUT placing a vote on me during that duel is scummy.

The case would have been useful at that point - the vote was not yet he claims the exact opposite.

[FA_Q2]

What is your take on NC elephant?

[Irrelephant11]

Why does townshoshin lose interest like this but scum shoshin not? If the driving factor is RC, then it would be NAI.

Right, which is why I'm only 80% sure she's town instead of my usual 98% when we play a game together from D1

NC? Let me ISO to remind myself of their play

[Shoshin]

Well, I would put it with me on shoshin. Claiming that we should follow up on RC's reads (as though RC has some inside information which we know to be false) but not putting a vote anywhere and then jumping on as soon as someone puts a vote up - scummy.

Why would you think this is scummy? What's the scum motive in following RC or saying we should follow his reads?

For the record, it's especially not scummy for me. I can point you to multiple games where I follow players I trust (and RC is one of those, especially after seeing his flip as town).

Claiming that there is a real reason that she is voting there and then not having one at all is scummier.

That's not scummy, either. I was mostly testing reactions, which is part of how I scumhunt, and the reality is that I did have reasons based in large part on things that RC and BuJaber were pointing out (and which I agree with).

Why does townshoshin lose interest like this but scum shoshin not? If the driving factor is RC, then it would be NAI.

I signed up for this game because RC asked me to. He sent me a PM promising that he wouldn't replace out and that he would take the game seriously. Then he came into the game and immediately dueled, so I was pretty upset and just stopped caring.

Could always go back to NC. Still do not like that slot much - a bunch of OMGUS and then purposefully casing a player that is no longer in the game is scummy as fuck. The useless excuse of not casing because we were locked into the duel BUT placing a vote on me during that duel is scummy.

Who is NC? Where's the OMGUS and what's scummy about it? (OMGUS isn't scummy by itself, but throwing the word around without more in-depth analysis of why it's scummy is actually scummy). What's scummy about casing a player that isn't in the game anymore? If the player was scummy, that has impact on how you read that player's slot for the rest of the game. And what's scummy about the "useless excuse"? It's like you're just calling everything the player is doing scummy without actually analyzing why any of this stuff is more likely to come from scum than town. And that fact - the lack of any in-depth analysis - is scummy. Especially for a player like you, who clearly has an analytical approach to the game. The lack of more thoughtful analysis from your slot, given your clear propensity for an anlaytical approach to the game, doesn't seem to make much sense. Any explanation for that?

[Shoshin]

I'm gonna be so obvious town not that Irrelephant is in the game and I have a reason to care.

[Irrelephant11]

[Irrelephant11]

It seems like you're trying to poison the well based on Io's outdated speculation about how scum would treat the early wagon to prevent PP votes tbh

Either you're scum or you're going for some really shit reasoning. I'm not going to say you aren't capable of reasoning this shitty as town, but I'm inclined to give you the benefit of the doubt and say you're just scum.

Sorry not trash shit at the game. I let it slide in 620 and then gave a snarky reply to 635 which deserved it. Honestly I could of been right with a majority of reads yet your fine with portraying me as shit.

Right, I never said you were shit, at the time I was saying you were "either shit or scum" and went with scum because you seemed to be 1/3 in your top three. Of course you took that as me calling you shit because FYPOV you know you are not scum.

I saw you hard pushing RC as scum, who seemed like pretty likely town based on the amount of effort he was putting in after being very likely to get lynched, and you also seemed to want to scumread me when I know I am town, so it seemed to me like you were at most 1/3 for your top three. The problem was that Penguin was not and is not obviously scum, but he sorta just cruised through that duel, and I think you getting ragetilted over what RC was saying toward you helped scum push RC through even though of the two he was the worse lynch. (imo)

Still doesn't make Penguin scum, but I do still think your lack of push on Penguin is one reason he remains pretty null. We had two players dueling and one of them remains null... that shouldn't really happen. But the reason it happened, in fairness to you, has a lot more to do with RC than with you.

To be clear, I don't think you're shit at this game, or shit as a person, but I do think you can be needlessly hostile and tend to escalate hostility very quickly.

idk you do seem legitimately temperamental but FA_Q does not. His anger seems fakier to me, whereas you seem to have really thought I was calling you shit (since I said "shit or scum") when imo I was just calling you scum. Whereas FA_Q I really did only say he was scum and then he seemed to get really angry for no reason other than being scumread. Like that OMGUS felt really weak to me. He should get roped. I know my case was not like, pulitzer prize winning. This game still doesn't have like a ton of dope material to work with. But his reaction was pretty bad. 715 is scummy, even if you agree my case was shitty

idk what NC is but maybe what I bolded is a scumslip, so
Nothing he posted came across as super towny imo
His case on tw was weak and I think the slot was/is green based on tw's posting
So like, from 1-10, 10 being town, he's like a 4
Also whoever said sheeping RC is a bad idea: how familiar are you with RC's meta?

[BuJaber]

Push on shoshin is kinda weak.
Why is her naked vote scummy? And why pick her out when I did the same thing but nobody talked about me?

That said, @ele where did you get all the shoshin and RC stuff? I was going to say why are we speaking about shoshin's inner thoughts and emotions but she just confirmed her motovation for joining.. did they discuss it in signups?

[Irrelephant11]

No I've just played multiple games with both of them in it, including Friemds mafia where Shoshin and I were friemds and talked about RC some in our pt
I didn't know about the PM but I saw Shoshin signed up after RC and I assumed (correctly) that his presence was part of why she did

I'm basically here to sort Shoshin for y'all and then sheep her and RC to victory
Seemed like a fun and easy way to get a town win which is why I signed up even though I'm overgamed

[BuJaber]

So you wouldn't have joined if you though she were scum?

Also what do you think about garmr's suggestion with the duels? ('Force' two people to duel and lynch both)

[Irrelephant11]

Actually, yeah, I guess I wouldn't have

I think it's against the spirit of the setup
It's probably strictly pro-town in terms of EV but idk if I like it personally
I won't argue for or against it if most players do/don't want it

[Light Ethos]

Well, I would put it with me on shoshin. Claiming that we should follow up on RC's reads (as though RC has some inside information which we know to be false) but not putting a vote anywhere and then jumping on as soon as someone puts a vote up - scummy.

Why would you think this is scummy? What's the scum motive in following RC or saying we should follow his reads?

I will answer this too since I'm voting you. I find that following the reads of a dead player is a low effort way of playing the game. It's a reasonable way of active lurking. Active lurking is not town motivated. Town should be looking for scum, not making a few throwaway comments and then sheeping dead town players' reads or logic.

For the record, it's especially not scummy for me. I can point you to multiple games where I follow players I trust (and RC is one of those, especially after seeing his flip as town).

Then as stated above, it's NAI at best. I don't see why a town player would play the way you have, but I can easily see how a scum player could want to play that way.

Claiming that there is a real reason that she is voting there and then not having one at all is scummier.

That's not scummy, either. I was mostly testing reactions, which is part of how I scumhunt, and the reality is that I did have reasons based in large part on things that RC and BuJaber were pointing out (and which I agree with).

Not being willing to discuss your motivation for a vote is scummy. Having a vote tossed out and shielding it under the guise of a reaction test is also scummy. That's a catch-all excuse for an unexplained vote.

Why does townshoshin lose interest like this but scum shoshin not? If the driving factor is RC, then it would be NAI.

I signed up for this game because RC asked me to. He sent me a PM promising that he wouldn't replace out and that he would take the game seriously. Then he came into the game and immediately dueled, so I was pretty upset and just stopped caring.

This is not responsive to the question that was asked. If RC said that he would be invested in the game, and then he played like he did, then you should be upset at him and lose interest either way. That's not a town defense. It's easy for me to see how you could be scum here.

Could always go back to NC. Still do not like that slot much - a bunch of OMGUS and then purposefully casing a player that is no longer in the game is scummy as fuck. The useless excuse of not casing because we were locked into the duel BUT placing a vote on me during that duel is scummy.

Who is NC? Where's the OMGUS and what's scummy about it? (OMGUS isn't scummy by itself, but throwing the word around without more in-depth analysis of why it's scummy is actually scummy). What's scummy about casing a player that isn't in the game anymore? If the player was scummy, that has impact on how you read that player's slot for the rest of the game. And what's scummy about the "useless excuse"? It's like you're just calling everything the player is doing scummy without actually analyzing why any of this stuff is more likely to come from scum than town. And that fact - the lack of any in-depth analysis - is scummy. Especially for a player like you, who clearly has an analytical approach to the game. The lack of more thoughtful analysis from your slot, given your clear propensity for an anlaytical approach to the game, doesn't seem to make much sense. Any explanation for that?

This is looking better.

[Light Ethos]

Push on shoshin is kinda weak.
Why is her naked vote scummy? And why pick her out when I did the same thing but nobody talked about me?

I see more analysis from your slot than from hers. Her vote looks like part of an active lurking strategy to me.

[Light Ethos]

idk what NC is but maybe what I bolded is a scumslip, so

How is what you bolded a scumslip? I'm not saying it isn't one. I just don't see it right away.

[Irrelephant11]

Is LE scum? I want him to be scum
@shoshin and @bujaber

Also,

fascinating

that NC was one of RC's hard townreads
I need to do more reading here I guess

pedit: "Of course you thought I was insulting you because fypov

you know you're town

" implies both that NC doesn't actually believe his own Garmr scumread AND that he knows Garmr is town (TMI)

[BuJaber]

Actually, yeah, I guess I wouldn't have

I think it's against the spirit of the setup
It's probably strictly pro-town in terms of EV but idk if I like it personally
I won't argue for or against it if most players do/don't want it

I didn't get the impression that people liked it but it sounded really good to me. I haven't played the setup before though so I wanted a 2nd opinion.

[BuJaber]

I think Light will be easier to sort than Walt. New player vibes throw you off.
All I could tell for sure was that Walt and RC are not buddies because no way RC brings up a potential slip like that.

But in general I don't think scumslips based one singular words or phrases are reliable.. this also applies to NC here. We can easily read into it because of his phrasing but I think it could easily just be awkward phrasing. If he said "fypov you're town" would it still seem like a slip?

Unless you're saying he wouldn't say the whole "your pov" thing as town? That would be a more reliable tell if there was meta to back it up.