Open 737: Stack the Deck (Game Over)

[ofrhz]

VOTE COUNT 3.15

Alonzo (0):

Performer (0):

ruru (0):

BuJaber (3):

Irrelephant11, skitter30, Alonzo

(L-2)

Enigma (2):

BuJaber, Performer

Irrelephant11 (0):

skitter30 (0):

Korina (0):

No Kill (0):

Not Voting (3):

Enigma, Korina, ruru

With

8

alive, it takes

5

to kill.
Day 3 ends in (expired on 2018-10-16 07:30:00)

Other:

- skitter30 V/LA Fridays and Saturdays

[ruru]

hmm

dead players' scumpools:

a50: {irrel, maybe alonzo, not bujaber, 99% not performer}
gamma: {performer, maybe enigma, not bujaber}
creature: {irrel, maybe alonzo, not performer, probably not enigma, maybe me lol}

this is probably an argument in favor of cfding irrel

it's also probably worth noting that I think the only player who had a real scumread on hws d1 was me, and a50 and creature just had hws in their poe for lack of content

alonzo is very probably town for that and other reasons so if town are in {irrel, bujaber} then I think it's between performer / enigma

based on what I've seen of bujaber's meta he has a decently systematic approach and I find it hard to believe he's going on about prs faking vt and just voting alonzo's inno and whatever as town

[ruru]

I don't know how to evaluate:

- performer voting alonzo's inno here
- performer suggesting alonzo telegraph his target tonight (I would hard sr myself for that suggestion and it could be scum trying to set up a fake guilty tomorrow and then mislynching alonzo or something but he's not me so I don't know)
- performer otherwise mostly playing his town meta and I also townread his postcount and his wildly fluctuating reads
- whatever chance of tw siteflaking based on nai things (mafia the game is generically too stressful / taking too much time / distracting him from work / etc.) or it being an incredibly dishonorable tactical replace
- me hard sring skygazer+tw other than that

but overall I get the sense that performer isn't an incredibly dangerous scum player and that he's really probably just town and maybe enigma is scum before performer is if we flip a groupscum

enigma still doesn't feel at all like scum and feels very much like designated mislynch, I have a decently good reason to believe his irl business is genuine/nai

I really think it's just bujaber+irrel

[ruru]

rb guilties should be taken with a grain of salt (especially if the target is claimed in advance)

rb innos are the useful result

this is actually a really big deal and I'm going to be super annoyed if people ignore it when I'm dead

there are a lot of situations where scum are incentivized to no-shoot

alonzo telegraphing his target should be the exceptional case and it should be understood that it's literally only an attempt to get an inno if scum shoot him and that it means nothing else

[ruru]

alonzo telegraphing his target should be the exceptional case

okay maybe I don't mean this

after I'm dead it's probably good

[Alonzo]

I'l hear your reccomendations in the meantime

[ruru]

for tonight?

[Alonzo]

yeah, that was meant to be @everyone

[ruru]

I guess I would pick a random target in irrel > enigma (if bujaber flips group) > performer? with irrel somewhat more likely to be chosen and performer less likely

[BuJaber]

So the argument here is alonzo RB'd enigma and there was a kill so I shouldn't be voting enigma?

You know that doesn't clear enigma until we're down to 1 scum alive right?

And then RB inno's are even messier if a 2nd groupscum gets lynched because there's scum holstering WIFOM and traitor possibilities.

Like if I weren't town how do you imagine my potential scumteam list would differ?
I have irrefutable evidence for skitter being town that people are deliberately choosing to ignore because it feels icky to use or whatever.. and I have pretty solid meta on Korina. It's not impossible for him to be scum here but before we actually confirm everyone's claims I'm not going to trust slots I don't really know over meta I trust.

How could you say that I'm methodical and systematic but not see why my scumteam theorizing makes sense? If you don't get something ask. Nobody asked.

[ruru]

lynching enigma before lylo when a traitor flip would clear him makes more sense if you're super certain he's scum and that's not really consistent with thinking about things like fake vt claims and me being scum and alonzo being scum and you haven't sold me on the strength of your scumread

like your list of scumteams felt like it came from someone who isn't trying to solve the game (you're considering a highly implausible me+alonzo team + fake vt claim but you were willing to just say my townflip clears alonzo when it doesn't, at all?)

at the same time you want to lynch enigma today which, if you're taking a strictly mechanical poe approach to the game where you townread two players and lynch the rest, is the worst possible lynch for town.you (and the best possible lynch for scum.you)

also I don't think skitter is getting lynched so it doesn't matter whether you have a 100% tr or a 95% tr on her

[ruru]

like, all your text about skitter could essentially by condensed into one line that "skitter is town because she trust told" and everything else about how hypothetically she would be spooky if she hadn't is filler, assuming you believe that she trust told

compared to I don't think you've really written much about, say, my alignment since d1 where you had me as the nullest of nulltowns and you would think that (before my claim at least) sorting me would be a priority considering how controlling I've been in this game

I need help sorting tw/ruru

I mean there's like only 3 choices for me: enigma, phantismo and ruru. Ruru my gut says town and nobody apart from elephant exoressed a scumread on her... If she's scum here she probably just wins

this lacks town, especially from someone who just lost to a deepwolf

[Irrelephant11]

hmm

dead players' scumpools:

a50: {irrel, maybe alonzo, not bujaber, 99% not performer}
gamma: {performer, maybe enigma, not bujaber}
creature: {irrel, maybe alonzo, not performer, probably not enigma, maybe me lol}

this is probably an argument in favor of

cfding irrel

it's also probably worth noting that I think the only player who had a real scumread on hws d1 was me, and a50 and creature just had hws in their poe for lack of content

alonzo is very probably town for that and other reasons so if town are in {irrel, bujaber} then I think it's between performer / enigma

based on what I've seen of bujaber's meta he has a decently systematic approach and I find it hard to believe he's going on about prs faking vt and just voting alonzo's inno and whatever as town

What is cfding?
Also I'm glad gamesolve ruru has come at the end of this game day to make a lot of sense

I don't know how to evaluate:

- performer voting alonzo's inno here
- performer suggesting alonzo telegraph his target tonight (I would hard sr myself for that suggestion and it could be scum trying to set up a fake guilty tomorrow and then mislynching alonzo or something but he's not me so I don't know)
- performer otherwise mostly playing his town meta and I also townread his postcount and his wildly fluctuating reads
- whatever chance of tw siteflaking based on nai things (mafia the game is generically too stressful / taking too much time / distracting him from work / etc.) or it being an incredibly dishonorable tactical replace
- me hard sring skygazer+tw other than that

but overall I get the sense that performer isn't an incredibly dangerous scum player and that he's really probably just town and maybe enigma is scum before performer is if we flip a groupscum

enigma still doesn't feel at all like scum and feels very much like designated mislynch, I have a decently good reason to believe his irl business is genuine/nai

I really think it's just bujaber+irrel

Great let's lynch BuJaber and then if he flips green probably flip me (and then when I flip green lynch Performer/Alonzo (depending on if Alonzo's alive and his night results)); if BuJ flips red, flip Performer/Korina (Korina only because I find the idea that BuJ would include Performer in his PoE this game day slightly non-partner-indicative and his read on Korina is mostly meta that the rest of us can't latch onto in a solid way - but maybe it's still just Performer)
Time is running out, this is a good plan, and if BuJ flips green I won't even fight my lynch because my pred's have apparently made my slot irredeemably scummy to the point where I can put in more work than some of the players who have been here since D1 and still get scumread so I'll help solve the game next gameday and then die if necessary

[ruru]

for the record I don't think anti-associatives between irrel and bujaber should be taken very seriously

bujaber because I know he effectively manipulates associatives as scum
irrel because he's often pushed a mindset of "scum push town, town push scum, people hard defending each other are probably partners" that I find overly simplistic to be coming from a competent town player but that I think scum often like to use to manipulate because they know how flips will look

[Irrelephant11]

Eh I think you're reducing my posts on the subject to less than they are
I think associatives are different in this game because of the possibility of a traitor, and traitor has to signal to their partner who they are
A way to do that is a certain kind of defending that tw did for BuJ and you have done for enigma - note that I no longer feel it's you/enigma, though, based on your claim
If there's groupscum I agree the associatives are probably more nuanced

This is probably my most frustrating town game that I've played in terms of getting townread to the extent I feel I deserve but I digress
I asked for people's reads on my preds because I can't believe they were so scummy that I can never be townread because "well, preds"
But if that's the case just flip me before lylo I'm probably just in the way at this point regardless of how helpful I personally feel I can be

[Irrelephant11]

i think ejji's vote on nm was a bussing vote; like he was trying to get on wagon
frank was bad; look at 646 and read the next few pages to get a feel for why i didn't like him

1 - Fine
2 - I just read this and W T F???????
I'm actually angry that the argument between Frank/Vex is actually enough for a lasting scumread for you????
Like your main point there was "anti-mindmeld" which was like the actual definition of us in American Presidents and I know Frank isn't me but I think it's been proven you put too much stock into "people who think like me and people who don't" because in most games there's ~2-3 town perspectives going on at once, on average, and scum try to keep it that way

Actually just based on the way your reads tend to be in most games I've seen with town!you
{town, town, scum}
{town, town}
{town, town, town}
{town, scum}
{town, town, scum}
I'm tempted to say I'm actually right on Korina because I agree with Frank in retrospect that that push on him was C R A P
I've literally done the thing he's done where "dangit my post is gone I've lost a lot of motivation" and Vex was super stuck on him for that and -

whatever, let me stop there. Take all this with a grain of salt because it's mostly being written by angry!me given this scumread on me now feels baseless
Or not baseless but like it feels like "eh I had a slight scumlean on that player so I can never townread you" which is dumb
I wish I had a PR because replacing in would have been much more fun here

[Irrelephant11]

Let's lynch BuJ now, lynch me if he flips green because I'll have lost a lot of my motivation anyway

[Irrelephant11]

And if you feel like lynching me if he flips red I might not fight that either honestly
If y'all will be stuck on my preds being "scummy" forever I'm apparently a lyability

[BuJaber]

Okay now I know for sure people didn't understand my PoE list of teams.

The top section here:

If enigma flips town:
- ruru + you
- ruru + alonzo
- you + alonzo
And by PoE performer with any of {you, ruru, alonzo}

Refers to JUST the time from enigma getting lynched today, to the start of day 4. It is what my reads would be with an enigma town flip because it would be a hard reset of assumptions.

I concede here that it was a dumb thing to do but I originally wanted to include all possibilities including all NKs and it got way too complicated and I decided it was pretty useless and cut out most of it, while still keeping the main point which is that the enigma flip is not enough on its own to solve the game.

As for you, maybe we didn't have a lot of direct engagement but since you did take a commanding role here I was happy with the nulltown/townlean because nothing stood out as particularly scummy. I did have at some point a theory that you and tw are partners but that doesn't seem likely given that you hypothetically would have been bussing him hard and for you to suddenly switch to a TR after his replaceout doesn't make a lot of sense.

Thing is with gamma flipping town I was sure Alonzo was scum but I kept the hypo inno thing going and frankly I'm surprised that he claimed PR. Now that he did though we can quite easily test both of you and either get two conf towns or 1-2 confscums.

And tbh I don't think I've ever considered the possibility that I got everything wrong in any game before so gamma being town and enigma flipping town AND Alonzo being town who also happens to be a tpr would be pretty shocking.

[Performer]

Also just thought of something - if alonzo is telling the truth, that means enigma is cleared. 1 scum died already, the only other 1 who can do an nk already did one on n2....so alonzo blocking enigma = enig town.

I think it also makes sense if alonzo was fake claiming & was actually traitor, then his rb on enigma on n2 would've made sense as scum fake claim? So in that case, enigma is scum and alonzo = traitor? Because looking at enigma's ISO alone - you can say I'm insane but I'm an old school/traditional town player - his ISO is still very suspicious .

Alonzo flew from not changing his stance on enigma being scum, to tw/ruru, to bujaber.
Something isn't right here.

This doesn't clear me btw (if Alonzo isn't fake claiming). Plus Alzono fake claiming doesn't make sense - it has essentially signed his death warrant if he doesn't get NKd and he was not under pressure to claim since he wasn't in today's lynch pool and I don't really expect him to be the player who has made such a gambit.

I actually started to TR your slot a bit earlier, but considering how you (and your predecessor) are training me so much when it is quite vital for scum to drive a mislynch today makes me retract that read.

Do you mean townreading ? Because otherwise your "training me so much" makes no sense .

And why would scum perf vote you today you've got no traction, compared to a scum perf voting an easier lynch like bujaber? If you read my meta provided for my 2 scum games this year, and alonzo can attest to it - I go for easy lynches. alonzo roleblocking you that night doesn't mean your fully cleared, yes, and like I said before, I do value classic scum hunting which focuses more on itt posts over abilities. Abilities are supplemental.

[Performer]

yeah, that was meant to be @everyone

I think korina or irrel then.

like, all your text about skitter could essentially by condensed into one line that "skitter is town because she trust told" and everything else about how hypothetically she would be spooky if she hadn't is filler, assuming you believe that she trust told

compared to I don't think you've really written much about, say, my alignment since d1 where you had me as the nullest of nulltowns and you would think that (before my claim at least) sorting me would be a priority considering how controlling I've been in this game

I need help sorting tw/ruru

I mean there's like only 3 choices for me: enigma, phantismo and ruru. Ruru my gut says town and nobody apart from elephant exoressed a scumread on her... If she's scum here she probably just wins

this lacks town, especially from someone who just lost to a deepwolf

I really don't like those posts from Bujaber, including you (now claimed bg) and I in scum pool. Need to re ISO him again.

[Enigma]

Also just thought of something - if alonzo is telling the truth, that means enigma is cleared. 1 scum died already, the only other 1 who can do an nk already did one on n2....so alonzo blocking enigma = enig town.

I think it also makes sense if alonzo was fake claiming & was actually traitor, then his rb on enigma on n2 would've made sense as scum fake claim? So in that case, enigma is scum and alonzo = traitor? Because looking at enigma's ISO alone - you can say I'm insane but I'm an old school/traditional town player - his ISO is still very suspicious .

Alonzo flew from not changing his stance on enigma being scum, to tw/ruru, to bujaber.
Something isn't right here.

This doesn't clear me btw (if Alonzo isn't fake claiming). Plus Alzono fake claiming doesn't make sense - it has essentially signed his death warrant if he doesn't get NKd and he was not under pressure to claim since he wasn't in today's lynch pool and I don't really expect him to be the player who has made such a gambit.

I actually started to TR your slot a bit earlier, but considering how you (and your predecessor) are training me so much when it is quite vital for scum to drive a mislynch today makes me retract that read.

Do you mean townreading ? Because otherwise your "training me so much" makes no sense .

And why would scum perf vote you today you've got no traction, compared to a scum perf voting an easier lynch like bujaber? If you read my meta provided for my 2 scum games this year, and alonzo can attest to it - I go for easy lynches. alonzo roleblocking you that night doesn't mean your fully cleared, yes, and like I said before, I do value classic scum hunting which focuses more on itt posts over abilities. Abilities are supplemental.

TR in the above means town reading.

I'm not necessarily a hard lynch target ... everyone is pretty divided on me as to town on scum. Plus you targeting me makes sense if you are scum friends with the main lynch target (BuJ).

Willing to put BuJ on L-1 considering the deadline soon ...
Main reason being PoE and his interactions voting me and bouncing back onto me only when there is wagon pressure (lame but meh)

If BuJ flips red
Elephant > Performer in that order, also we can get a confirmed inno if there is a NK tonight so I think it will be PoE win for town

If he flips green
Performer > elephant in that order, but also possible there is a deep scum somewhere and we are fucked

[Irrelephant11]

If BuJ flips red
Elephant > Performer in that order

?
Is this based on my posts this page or something else?

[Enigma]

If BuJ flips red
Elephant > Performer in that order

?
Is this based on my posts this page or something else?

Nah mostly because I doubt both scum would both push me

[Irrelephant11]

But I started this game day pushing you and only when it seemed like that wouldn't work (+ PR claims) I pushed for BuJ?