Lynching

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Post Post #12 (isolation #0) » Fri Sep 28, 2018 4:55 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

I am 100% in support of changing the wording
Obviously no census has been done on site (that I'm aware of) but it may be that the racial makeup of the userbase reflects a racial discomfort with the word "lynch". I feel some amount of discomfort with the word, even as I agree that it is less uncomfortable online than it would be IRL.

I would not play mafia IRL with people who chose to use the word lynch.

It is not hard to use a different word, nor is "lynching" necessarily the most appropriate word to use, especially depending on game flavor.
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Post Post #18 (isolation #1) » Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:59 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

I agree that this shouldn't be a change in site rules... It's a cultural thing that is more or less culturally relevant for various users on the site, and anyway enforcing wording is a way of annoying people regardless of the context. I do think that any mod or prolific player that feels willing and able to use a different word/find different flavor for the voting out mechanic should be encouraged to do so.

I've seen even non-theme games that, by way of flavor, use a word other than lynch. I approve wholeheartedly.
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Post Post #21 (isolation #2) » Mon Oct 15, 2018 6:44 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

I guess the argument is partially that the context isn't different enough from the original one
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Post Post #27 (isolation #3) » Tue Oct 16, 2018 3:54 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

In post 22, yessiree wrote:You are forcing that context upon a concept when it is perfectly fine for that concept to be interpreted in isolation.
I don't know what you mean
Anyway there was only one context for the word lynching in the united states
It is illustrated in the logo at the top of the page (lynching =/= hanging in all cultures, but lynching & hanging are sorta synonymous in American culture)
We use the word on this site to refer to "the killing of a single person by a group of people who have taken the law into their own hands, ostensibly by hanging said person"
In the US you can't pretend it's some OTHER lynching-by-hanging thing we're referring to
There was only the one, and it's what comes to mind every time I look at the logo
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Post Post #36 (isolation #4) » Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:08 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

In post 32, yessiree wrote:I understand if you cannot find peace with the word “lynch” because its heavily linked to racism in the US. At the same time though, from your description of the word alone, you can clearly see it is not implied at all, in fact all its saying is the act of extra judicial execution by an angry mob. What I dont understand is why you cannot just stop there because this is just a game you know?
I understand if you can make peace with the word "lynch" for whatever reasons you have. At the same time, though, from your understanding of my distress alone, you can clearly see that this word has a negative emotional affect on some members of this community. What I don't understand is why that isn't enough reasoning to make a simple wording change because this is just a game you know?

But as I've said in this thread, I don't think it should be an enforced rule that players cannot use the word. I simply think that anyone who feels like it is a good idea to change the word should do so in the games they play/mod
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Post Post #37 (isolation #5) » Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:09 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

"Launch"

into space, ostensibly
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Post Post #46 (isolation #6) » Wed Oct 17, 2018 8:17 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

In post 38, shortaru wrote:I mean, was anybody on this site even alive during the times of the KKK's heyday and commonplace lynching of black people?

If this were, say, the 70's, I'd totally get it... but it's been over fifty years.

I don't mean to minimize anyone's suffering, especially on a racial level. I just don't understand the sudden offense being taken out of the blue over a term that has been used for, what, a decade or so in this game?
I mean I've only been here ~six months and my pov is completely consistent with how I've been playing mafia and similar games IRL for years and always refused to use the word "lynch" in face to face mafia. My guess is that those who disagree with me would still find it somewhat difficult to play this game face to face with a group of black Americans and choose the word "lynch" when other words are available.
In post 40, yessiree wrote:
In post 36, Irrelephant11 wrote:
In post 32, yessiree wrote:I understand if you cannot find peace with the word “lynch” because its heavily linked to racism in the US. At the same time though, from your description of the word alone, you can clearly see it is not implied at all, in fact all its saying is the act of extra judicial execution by an angry mob. What I dont understand is why you cannot just stop there because this is just a game you know?
I understand if you can make peace with the word "lynch" for whatever reasons you have. At the same time, though, from your understanding of my distress alone, you can clearly see that this word has a negative emotional affect on some members of this community. What I don't understand is why that isn't enough reasoning to make a simple wording change because this is just a game you know?

But as I've said in this thread, I don't think it should be an enforced rule that players cannot use the word. I simply think that anyone who feels like it is a good idea to change the word should do so in the games they play/mod
We're just trying to lynch some mafia on some online forum, what, do you really think there is some sort of oppression going on? (I swear when someone is lynched on mafiascum(dot)not they don't actually die IRL)

I think you are a victim of identity politics. seriously go watch the video.
It's interesting that you would set out to label me a "victim" when I would not do the same in this context. Given you know neither my identity nor my politics this is a weird thing for you to think about me. I am simply expressing my feelings about a word, and what I would like in my ideal world (because we have all been asked by the OP). I have not suggested I or any group is being oppressed in this case, just that I think removing the word would make the game more pleasant in general. I don't like when people
swear
in game threads, either, and if there was a larger onsite discussion going on about whether or not people should swear, I would make the same comments there.

ftr I can't watch the video in the setting I'm in right now or I would
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Post Post #49 (isolation #7) » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:18 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

I appreciate that your experiences give you a unique perspective, but knowing black people or even being black yourself does not make you a sole arbiter of racism
Not here to argue about defining racism, just saying that it's not up to you solely.

Is there a reason some onsite
want
to use the word "lynch"? If site meta was that we all already used a different word, would you advocate we switch to use "lynch"?
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Post Post #51 (isolation #8) » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:35 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

No, I am not trying to repress anything. It seemed like you were appealing to your experiences as a reason your opinion should be regarded more highly than most; my response is that your experiences, while fascinating and worthwhile, do not elevate or lower the weight of your opinion. I have not advocated for censorship, and if you re-read my posts you will find I do not encourage any sort of enforced censorship, I am only expressing my discomfort and letting others know how they could reduce my discomfort.

I am sorry you felt I was dismissing your opinion. I didn't intend to, and I do not want your opinion dismissed. I only want to keep all our opinions on a level playing field.

My second question is not a trick - I don't expect anyone to say "Yes, because I am racist" and I do not intend to "trap" anyone into saying something similar so I can attack them (as many on the internet would seek to do). I am only seeking in earnest to understand why some prefer the word "lynch": is it because it is what this site has used for many years, or another reason? Thus my question.
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Post Post #74 (isolation #9) » Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:17 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

In post 72, Ectomancer wrote:And by the way, telling someone who has seen and experienced racism firsthand and secondhand growing up in Florida, Alabama, and Mississippi that those experiences don't elevate or lower the weight of their opinion on racism itself is akin to telling someone who spent 20 years behind bars that their experience doesn't elevate or lower the weight of their opinion on the criminal justice system. Whether you like the idea or not, real life experiences do elevate or lower the weight of someone's opinion. Certainly I would take the opinion of a doctor who has removed an inflamed appendix about my own possible surgery over one who writes prescriptions for head colds. Do you follow that line of reasoning?
I don't mean to say your experiences can't make your opinion an informed and useful one. I just think that in this context, where you know nothing about me or (presumably) about most of the other posters, appealing to experience can only raise your opinion from "uninformed" to "informed". I guess that informed opinions should be taken more seriously than uninformed ones, but I suppose I've been assuming everyone who's posting here has an informed view. Maybe I'm mistaken on that point.

Anyway, I do follow your line of reasoning. I just think that in this anonymous context, it's less helpful than normal to try to identify who the "experts" are, especially since people lie on the internet (surprising, I'm sure :P )
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Post Post #75 (isolation #10) » Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:29 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

In post 53, Psyche wrote:
In post 49, Irrelephant11 wrote:Is there a reason some onsite
want
to use the word "lynch"? If site meta was that we all already used a different word, would you advocate we switch to use "lynch"?
Is there any other word out there that means “extrajudicial mob killing”? And isn’t that exactly the mythos underlying the game’s day phases?
I suppose that there isn't another word with that meaning
Though, "execute" implies "judicial killing in compliance with a legal sentence" which, give nthe presence of cops, doctors, and jailkeepers on the side of town should perhaps be the more apt description.

Or maybe I am advocating for a new mythos.

I wish this idea could be engaged without making assumptions about my identity or politics...

Anyway, thankful for the opportunity to share my feelings here. I'm sure anyone who I am writing these things for has probably read it, and I've said my piece, so I'll stop posting in this thread now.
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