Mini Normal 2035 : Duck Mafia Part 1 : GAME OVER

[Tchill13]

Hey Dave, congratulations. You're gonna win.

WHY IS DAVE TOWN? FOR THE LOVE SOMEONE ANSWER THAT. IF I WASN'T PUSHING HIM YOU WOULDN'T BE DETERMINED TO MAKE HIM TOWN.

[UnaBombaH]

I'm just trying to get through to una.

You must see it yourself as well??
So many goddamn things actually incriminate you more than they clear you.
It's not just me being paranoid or stubborn anymore.
I finally feel like I managed to get above all that.

I feel confident enough now, to say that if I'm mistaken about your alignment here, I'll take full responsibility for the outcome of this match.

#ApparentlyIhaveAnEgoAfterAll

[Tchill13]

I hope your scum. I hope your scum I hope you scum.


WHY IS DAVE TOWN. HOW IS DAVE TOWN.

[Tchill13]

I want Dave lynched. Then we go from there. The issue is that if una is town and doesn't vote with us scum have to bus to get Dave lynched.

[Tchill13]

The only way Dave is town is due to setup spec. That's it. That's all he's got.

[Tchill13]

Una. If you're truly convinced I'm scum and that I still tried to kill boon even though the claimed protective stated he would protect boon.

Then you are determined to believe I'm scum and will do what's necessary to make that fit. I have major issues with you taking the blame because it'll be the blame of a town loss.

Anyone here who votes me as scum believes I'm extremely stupid not only in the way that I handled the FA lynch but also in my attempt to night kill boon. So thanks.

[Completly Trustworthy]

Why were you worried about the FA lynch anyways? I thought you said he was really scummy?

[Tchill13]

WHY
IS
DAVE
TOWN.

Answer this before you place a vote. Answer that with no relation to me pushing him. Answer it with at least 3 reasons.

[Tchill13]

Why were you worried about the FA lynch anyways? I thought you said he was really scummy?

Honestly. From what I can remember I was worried about wilky because he was lurking as scum once when I played with him.

As for FA I literally don't know why. I thought it was a mislynch. I had bigger fish to fry. Then someone said something about the deadline and I just said screw it.

[Completly Trustworthy]

Here are the reasons why I believe Davesaz might be town:
His claim fits the setup(there is usually a protective role) and I think there might be two scum PR's.
FA shaded him during day three
I know the scumteam left two townies who were claiming PR's on night 2 alive so they could say them surviving meant one of them was scum based on 577, so I think the scumteam in this game is quite clever.
In 602, Dave gave an explanation for the nightkill I hadn't thought of yet. Since I know the scum were pushing me because my survival was scummy, this doesn't fit the scum agenda since it provides a good explanation for my survival.
I know Dave likes to question people from my previous game with him, so his questions to Reundo don't seem that odd to me. The only thing I'm really suspicious of at this point is why he choose Nonny and Wilky over Reundo and FA. I would like him to answer that.

Overall, I still think there is a good chance Dave is scum. However, I have enough reasons to doubt his guilt at the moment to consider the possibility that the scumteam is trying to play everyone. Especially since nobody came out as a role that can prevent a death after I asked for claims.

[nonny]

I want Dave lynched. Then we go from there. The issue is that if una is town and doesn't vote with us scum have to bus to get Dave lynched.

How? If you're wrong there is no going "from there" we just lose. There are two scum left, right? So why the focus on just dave? Who is his partner? You are putting a lot of effort into Dave. I agree dave looks scummy but there is a case for over half the town currently.

I'm going to spend time looking at Isos and partners. Apparently everyone has written me off as useless but I am still trying to figure this out too. Will post once I have something that contributes. The last 3 pages has accomplished on thing, which may have been the goal, made it all more unclear than it already was.

[Tchill13]

Good lord.

Practicality ppl. Yall need to learn the definition of it.

If Dave is town. Scum either no killed or they shot at boon.

It's very well documented I'm a player of logic. Usually the thing that makes the most sense logically is the thing I tend to lead toward.

Other than setup spec. There is no reason to believe Dave is town. The possibilities of the night action would mean scum are stupid or scum are smart.

Why can't scum be average? That's what I'm assuming. Not too dumb to attempt to kill boon. Not too smart to no kill.

And the no kill being "smart" is debatable. Sure there's wifom. The game is also in lylo atm if scum killed Dave last night and boon visited scum (which is a popular assumption atm). It'd be very difficult to find a situation where scum would rather be in mylo than lylo due to the fact at the end of the day, town can ultimately decide to no lynch and play out another day phase. Had scum killed Dave this wouldn't be an option.

And from every perspective there would be scum teams that still make sense even with Dave dead such as (tchill/CT) (reundo/anyone honestly) (nonny has been scummy as hell and if not for Dave being obv scum I'd probably scum read nonny).

So this idea that the no kill was a genius move is bogus anyways.

And using only setup spec to clear Dave is not optimal due to the fact ppl can clearly disagree with setup spec (and be right to do so) and the setup just not be what players think are balanced.

All I'm asking you ppl is to believe that the most likely outcome is probably what happened.

Yall can't because of 2 things. Una believes they can never read me wrong. So not being able to solve the game as resulted in una settling on a tchill Sr. Which I've given valid reason to SR but the situation doesn't point to scum tchill. "Outside the box" could very well mean that reundo was checked, like Dave said, as much as it could mean boon re-checked me. DO NOT act like boon revisiting me is written in stone.

2nd, CT believes scum are purposefully leaving PR's alive as lynch bait. Now this theory has substantial help from his FAKE CLAIM which is already damaging to town. If he chooses to only believe this theory then he will do what he has to to refuse to SR Dave.

This is a scenario where CONFBIAS is being used over PRACTICALLITY. For both players.

[Tchill13]

Here are the reasons why I believe Davesaz might be town:
His claim fits the setup(there is usually a protective role) and I think there might be two scum PR's.
FA shaded him during day three
I know the scumteam left two townies who were claiming PR's on night 2 alive so they could say them surviving meant one of them was scum based on 577, so I think the scumteam in this game is quite clever.
In 602, Dave gave an explanation for the nightkill I hadn't thought of yet. Since I know the scum were pushing me because my survival was scummy, this doesn't fit the scum agenda since it provides a good explanation for my survival.
I know Dave likes to question people from my previous game with him, so his questions to Reundo don't seem that odd to me. The only thing I'm really suspicious of at this point is why he choose Nonny and Wilky over Reundo and FA. I would like him to answer that.

Overall, I still think there is a good chance Dave is scum. However, I have enough reasons to doubt his guilt at the moment to consider the possibility that the scumteam is trying to play everyone. Especially since nobody came out as a role that can prevent a death after I asked for claims.

@ct. One of your reasons to believe Dave is town is that FA shaded him day 3.

There is absolutely no interaction between FA and Nonny. Does that mean nonny is scum?

[Tchill13]

That is a LOT of flailing coming from CT trying to use conjecture to justify why he is still alive. And he has really not been pushed on it either.

Scum is ct/una

CT this is scum taking advantage of a dumb fake claim. You've thrown around the idea that gamaa was Role copped n1. Who's to say you weren't role copped n1? And scum KNEW you were lying?

I don't believe this to be the case, I'm using your own argument against you. So please answer it.

[Tchill13]

You also state that you know scum would push you because you were scummy. What's going to keep town from pushing you because you were scummy? Is town supposed to be able to read your mind and know you're not scum?

[Tchill13]

Why would boon check someone who he thinks is scum last night phase?

Because we finally nailed scum last day.
And, you know...

@Unah - how many games have we played together recently? 7-8 games This Year, I’d say?

You should know I like to play risky....

..just something Boon yet again said.

This still doesn't make sense. Why would boon "risk" visiting scum which could be a direct effect on town being in lylo the next day phase?

From boons perspective he could have cleared another player while heading into mylo, since he'd be protected by Dave, or he could kill himself and leave town with an indirect crumb while he knows Dave is the most likely to die, leaving town in lylo.

Sure boon is crazy. He's not dumb though. He would never willingly put town in lylo unless he knew town would win. Obviously he didn't. Because town is about as torn as can be in mylo atm.

[Tchill13]

Replace Nonny for Dave, I guess in my thing.

I understand that and loud is kinda bleh right there for scum.

And UNA I never missed this. I clearly, clearly stated I believed boon got paranoid and backed that up by providing his quote of Dave remembering to interact with his scum mates and also pointing out that boon clearly stated not to blame the game on him. Showing hesitancy.

[Tchill13]

I think scum here, any scum team here, would have killed Dave. It's a sure fire kill correct? Not only that but

if scum were to purposely kill boon it validates his night action.

I think your perspective is a bit flawed here. (the bolded)

Let's assume scum know where Boon is targeting.
Like, for certain KNOW where he is targeting.
If it's a visit on scum, they kill someone else (likely dave) to make it a LyLo, OR leave dave alive for the WIFOM of why he's not dead. (MyLo)
They win with just one mislynch on either scenario, so it doesn't matter from their perspective.
The only trusted town and the best "detective" is dead too.
All they need to do, is to make sure there isn't a one sure-fire way to read Boons "riddle" (I bet there really wasn't), and then just ARGUE ABOUT THE INTERPRETATION IF ANYONE SAYS BOON VISITED ONE OF THEM.

We really could be living through this scenario here.

If it's a visit on town, they want to kill that townie to give 0 actual confirmations AND they can still kill Boon the night after since dave will be out of shots. (we obviously know this didn't happen, but this was the alternative IF scum knew who Boon was about to target.)

oh i missed this. You're gonna blatantly disregard the fact that the diffference between mylo and lylo means something to scum. That giving town an out opposed to making sure this day phase is the last one isn't valuable to scum. Let me ask you something una, if im really smart enough to set this up for dave, Whats keeping me from going to lylo and painting the picture of a scum team consisteing of (nonny/reundo/CT)? Because only ONE of those players could be my scum partner from your perspective in that scenario. You don't think i'd be able to make a convincing case out of a mixture of 2 low content players and someone who im pretty sure fake claimed as town?

I understand the thought process. Tchill is an evil genius who wanted to ML Dave in mylo, not lylo. I'm glad you think that highly of me, I really am. This doesn't explain why i handled the FA lynch in the manner that I did. This doesn't explain why dave not only was on the 2 mislynches, but also didn't help lynch FA and made sure NOT to put FA for vengekill shortly after calling FA a scum lean.

[Tchill13]

speaking of setup balance. There's a world in which we lose 3 townies n1 and 2 townies n2. due to novice vig n2 and boon visiting scum n1. the novice modifier stops the possibility of 4 townies from dying n1.

[Tchill13]

I'm abandoning the no kill theory for now. I initially thought the scumteam might have included someone who figured out what Flavor's crumb meant and therefore knew that he was probably visiting scum. Since nobody, even Una, is entirely sure what Flavor meant at this point, I think that's unlikely now. So at this point, I think there are two real possibilities. Dave is scum or the scumteam have a second power role.

Dave, why did you select Wilky and Nonny as vengekill targets in 491?

why can't dave BE the 2nd PR? As a loud role as scum, which we know him to be loud at least, he would have to fake claim obviously.

[Tchill13]

This is ridiculous. I'll be damned if someone who fake claimed an even night doctor AND NEVER GOT NK'D gets me lynched.

You've gotten a pass from others but that's scummy has hell man. You're just flinging shit at me to see if it'll stick at this point.

I actually fully agree with you on this.
No matter what FA flips, if I ever wake up to a D4 I'm still going after CT.
I'm willing to give my life into Boons hands for today, but I'm a bit worried he has given a pass to some players too soon..

One of Chill/CT is scum, I can still feel it in my bones.

Yeah, I’m starting to feel that way. Don’t put it all in my hands, haha.

@Unah - Join my mind and think outside the box.

who boon visited doesn't matter to me due to the fact i believe boon died regardless of visiting town or scum since scum shot him.

"outside the box".761 quote is the box. 773 quote is outside the main box, which in my mind means he attempted to visit CT due to "no matter what FA flips, if i ever wake up to d4 im going after CT."

the main reason he'd visit CT is because you basically admit that you're planning on tunneling CT. So if he can clear CT isn't that a huge advantage in his eyes? To keep someone he strongly TR's from tunneling someone he believes to be town due to boons 2 propositions not including CT?

WHICH MEANS... From boons perspective he'd plan on going to mylo (due to "dave the doc" protecting him but being killed by scum) With a town block of (Boon, CT, Una) against tchill (town lean) and nonny/reundo (his LAST proposed scum mates with FA)

I'm pretty sure this was boon's thought process. Definitely better interpretation and reasoning than what has been proposed so far.

[Tchill13]

If I die anyways, it’s confirmed there is a roleblocker and Tchill can’t necessarily be considered town. If I die, and someone else dies, I expect Unah to figure out who i targeted.

he said this before FA flipped Role blocker. While this could mean he meant the possibility he was role blocked while checking me.

I believe he means there's a role blocker due to dave being RB'd and Boon dying because of a lack of protection. He had just switched dave to town shortly before this post. This post was made before Boon knew the RB was about to flip.

[Tchill13]

Shit, that was a very good page. Don’t wholly disagree with anything when laid out that way. I’m still more confidant in Dave though so will keep vote there for now.

Which also explains this post. Picks the townie of the three that i proposed.

Yeah, that fits nicely.

Nonny, Reundo, FA.

I’m going FA first.

and if you pair this with my explanation of the crumb, I think he checked CT guys. Checking CT is where he has the most to gain if he trult beilieves una to be town, along with CT, which he did obviously because they're not a part of the proposed scum team.

[Tchill13]

this concludes tchill's epidemic of not only the case for scum dave, but the idealogy of boon visiting Ct

Please flip the CD over to side 2 to find out who tchill believes is dave's partner...

[Tchill13]

I recognize Dave and Popo, but I haven't played with anyone else here.
VOTE: Profili

VOTE: Completly Trustworthy

Lies in the first post. I have played with you before.

Like..he says that Carca IS scum, I can see that in conjuction with his gambit, but then Chill/Gamma/Me?

That is the part that bothers me the most.

The three that would have known I’d have been gambiting from the get go, and I was trying to see if I could find any correlation in regards to communication towards the scum team had any of you been scum.

I was kinda trying to force communication within the scum team to potentially make one of the other players Freudian slip through insider knowledge only one of the three of you would know well.

To be fair, players like Dave/FA are also aware of how I play, but not to the extent you guys are.

I am but never thought you would gambit like this.

Did you even remotely consider the fact that you could have hard outed town pr roles and did give scum more information than they should have? This was a terrible gambit - even for you boon.

That said, car responded to that like garbage.

VOTE: Carcalilly

Why try and undermine FL and throw shade at what he was doing when it was almost complete? Further, why claim that you cannot target anyone? Does that have a single town motivation? Looks to me like you were tryharding to sound town.

On that same token: una does the same shit in 292 - the entire second statement:
"I'd also like to point out that I knew for a near certainty that it was a gambit from the get go. Mainly because I was asked to be the last one, and there's absolutely no result Boon could have that would suggest me doing anything last night."

^ that statement serves no purpose other than tryharding to be town. tchill does something simular but he comes off much more genuine than una and much more constant. Tchill also does not just throw out information on what he did or did not do in night actions. Una does it just here and it looks to me only because boon put him at the end.

Finally, Gamma attacks FL for a good reason in my opinion BUT jumps right off. What was that about? Scum lean here as well.

Those are my top 3 at this point.

That is a LOT of flailing coming from CT trying to use conjecture to justify why he is still alive. And he has really not been pushed on it either.

Scum is ct/una

VOTE: Completly Trustworthy

this is FA's vote history, with a SR of CT there in the middle.

He only had 24 post. So using practically a 3rd of them to push CT shouldn't be considered distancing imo. This, among other things, leads to a town lock of CT for me.

CT has been consistent in one thing. Ego. A fake claim to save himself as town along with Refusing to remove his confbias of the scum agenda screams egotistical town imo. i've never been one to read tone, but thats the vibe im getting there. So that plus FA's iso almost clears him completely for me.