Mini Normal 2035 : Duck Mafia Part 1 : GAME OVER

[The Mighty Ducks]

vote count 4.04

nonny

(0) :

UnaBombaH

(0):

davesaz

(0) :

Completly Trustworthy

(0) :

Reundo

(0) :

Tchill13

(0) :

not voting:

nonny, UnaBombaH, davesaz, Reundo, Tchill13, Completly Trustworthy

with 6 duckies alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

day three will end with no lynch in (expired on 2018-10-27 10:30:00)

mod notes:
- i AM a he-duck!
- quack

[Tchill13]

Only person I'm lynching not named Dave is reundo. I've done literally every break down possible.

I'm disappointed una still doesn't agree with me enough to lynch Dave. Extremely actually. Only because of paranoia.

[Tchill13]

If I'm scum then boon would have been played so bad this game. I would literally have to be a scum mastermind.

[Tchill13]

You can't dispute that boon visited CT imo. That's almost locked down.

[Tchill13]

Nonny has pushed Dave consistently.

Reundo hasn't sorted at all. Hasn't done too much besides a huge wall here and there and only has pushed nonny.

[Tchill13]

I honestly don't have anything else to say. I'll answer questions but I'm done with this. I'll begin to repeat myself.

[UnaBombaH]

So dave+reundo, and no other explanation works?

Humor me, and assume a scenario where I claim an inno on dave (obv. don't have one).
Now you are FORCED to come up with an alternate scenario.
Where do you go next?

[Tchill13]

Reundo and nonny. It's either Dave and reundo or reundo and nonny.

My only issue with THAT is you're fighting the Dave lynch so hard...

[UnaBombaH]

I'm not necessarily fighting the dave lynch, as much as I'm worried about what you are pushing/avoiding.

For example, I dislike the fact that you were raging and being very loud about dave being the only reasonable lynch for you today.
But in fact, it seems that reundo is just as much a lock to you as dave apparently is.
Then why not go for the reundo lynch "as much" from the get go?
Is there a specific reason for that?

Also with the way you have already locked CT as town, but not nonny.
One of the things that I DO feel certain about, is that nonny and reundo are NOT scum together.
Meaning to me, that if reundo is scum (and I'm still leaning towards "yes, they are"), nonny is town.
So I need to find the partner in Chill/dave/CT.
I'm still not at all convinced that scum!dave with a loud role would have played the way they apparently then did(??) with their night actions, so I'm hesitant there.
And behold - I'm back to "one of CT/Chill is scum".

[UnaBombaH]

Like...the thing I always end up coming back to...
I do not see scum!dave targeting Boon with a loud role -> going for a fakeclaim-Doc (apparently crumbed ahead of time btw) -> kill Boon the very next night after promising to save him..WHY?
I still just can't believe dave would ever do something like that as scum here.
That is like painting a target on your back, and then asking to be shot at.
That is not how I picture his scum-play at all.

I'm now wondering whether I have ever played with scum!dave as either alignment before..

[UnaBombaH]

I have seen scum!Chill however, and you always do the same thing that scum!Boon does.
You try to make me feel stupid because of "paranoia", and like I said before, I almost fell for it yet again this game!
But to be fair, that was before you began to put in more effort, and could have been town!Chill venting frustration as well.. (or trying to get his way done more easily)

I'm off to bed.
I'm trying this again tomorrow.

[Tchill13]

Ues# because from the get go I didn't know who Dave's partner was. I just knew Dave was sum. Wasn't until a deep dive of every player I began to look from Dave's partner.

[Tchill13]

Let's try this one point at a time. I'm not gonna blow up the thread so we can go through each point.

Who did boon visit and why? Do we believe who boon visited is town and why?

I've already given my CT argument. Others should provide their thoughts. Boon had the most to gain by visiting CT because una said they'd tunnel CT and had CT been cleared that's a town block of CT, UNA, boon. Which also leaves the rest of boons scum team in the game.

[Tchill13]

And the reason Dave visits boon is because he already knew he'd claim loud doc and he'd use boon to validate his claim. Which worked, because boon believed he was town.

Why WOULDN'T you visit a claimed role as a loud scum role if you already decided you'd claim loud doc? Sounds like it gives you a player that can validate your fake claim to me?

Boon visited CT.

Dave is scum.

Dave visited boon to validate his future doc claim.

(Just keeping up with everything I'll be right about post-game.) The scum thread should confirm that last point.

[Completly Trustworthy]

Dave, why did you ask for nobody else to counter my claim in 401? I noticed that detail during my reread of your ISO and thought it was odd. If someone else counterclaimed me, wouldn't that have pretty much guaranteed I was scum since there is almost no chance of three protectives being in a mini normal?

Also, Davesaz, what are you reads as of now and if you had to place a vote on a slot right now, who would you pick?

[Tchill13]

CT, please tell me I'm at least making sense.

[Completly Trustworthy]

Una, I think there are reasons to be cautious about this lynch, but Flavor Leaf being nightkilled isn't really one in my opinion. From a scum Dave perspective, none of the lurkers or me are in any danger at all due to being potential mislynches or scum themselves. You ended day 3 saying you believed one of me/Chill was scum, Tchill is probably town if Dave is scum, so the scumteam would have wanted you alive to push that angle. Tchill is widely distrusted and his death would have caused me and you to reconsider our reads. Flavor makes the most sense due to the influence he had over the players and his gamesolving ability. There are potential excuses to get out of a lynch in that instance as Dave, so it makes some sense that he might do it.

[Completly Trustworthy]

I do think your arguments make sense now. At the beginning of this day, I disliked you saying you were practically cleared because you were effectively claiming that the scumteam had little reason to roleblock Boon, a dangerous player who was claiming an investigative role. I also thought that you were using ATE during your initial push on Dave and being very manipulative. Basically, my reluctance to believe Dave was scum was more due to your behavior than anything he had done. You've gotten better, so I may be on board with this.

[Tchill13]

As long as you're beginning to agree, I don't care about the details as to why.

Other than setup spec there is no reason to believe Dave is town.

[Completly Trustworthy]

There is one thing I would like you to address Tchill however, why would a scum Dave make 602? In that post, he says my motivations for fakeclaiming were probably town-indicative and provides an explanation for the nightkill. FA pushed me on surviving in 577 and said the motivations for my claim were scummy in 669. What would Dave gain by helping out a mislynch which his scummate was pushing?

[Tchill13]

CT's assumption that scum knew Gamma's role is horrible. We have no information suggesting that's the case, and it's a totally valid strategy to kill someone who is townread. FL carried some scum equity from the gamibt so if he's town I could see scum leaving him alive. I'm very much a possible ML target for lurking so scum have no reason to kill me. Lurkers in general are ML targets if they're town, so leave out Reundo and Nonny too. Once you start identifying kills that are potentially worse than Gamma, the more it seems unlikely that scum knew his role and more likely he was just a priority to NK because there are better mislynches available.

What would take more reading would be finding out

why

CT's making that assumption. The stated reasons don't make a lot of sense to me.

I do dig the idea of VT trying to draw a nk for a possible watcher / tracker. And claiming to attempt to avoid lynch is something that I can see fitting CT's apparent personality from the previous game. So if the even night doc -> VT claim is real it's likely to be town motivation. Not enough to conftown but likely.

Because I'm pretty sure Dave is a scum loud Rolecop. So he immediately shuts down any belief of a role cop scum role for his protection. He then explains why gamma was night killed. He calls himself a mislynch opportunity once again to explain why he's alive. He throws shade at you in the form of you know too much too soon.

To be frank with you. If scum thought you were fake claiming. Then you win scum the game if they can get you to lylo. Scum know that. Remember what I said earlier about Dave being determined to TR you because he TR'd you for the fake claim and then he TR'd you for the retraction? Sounds to me like scum knew who they wanted in lylo.

[Tchill13]

And like I said, the only other real possibility in my eyes is an FA, nonny, reundo team.

Reundo voted nonny most of the game though, and if I believe that CT is town. Then I believe that nonny and reundo either shot boon anyways or just no killed. Neither possibilities are the most practical scenario.

[Tchill13]

I'm not understanding why I'm the one being forced to explain every little detail when I'm the person that believes the most logical thing to explain the night phase is what actually happened.

[Tchill13]

There is one thing I would like you to address Tchill however, why would a scum Dave make 602? In that post, he says my motivations for fakeclaiming were probably town-indicative and provides an explanation for the nightkill. FA pushed me on surviving in 577 and said the motivations for my claim were scummy in 669. What would Dave gain by helping out a mislynch which his scummate was pushing?

FA didn't exactly do much and neither has reundo.

Why wouldn't Dave take it into his own hands as far as the scum agenda goes? Would you work with your scum partners if they only knew how to lurk as scum?

I do see your points, I really do and it does cause me to hesitate a little.

Why wouldn't town have a protective? Why would Dave NOT WORK with FA?

Those are good questions and they do have weight. I'm sure I'm coming off as a guy that's just refusing to weigh the options. I've weighed them.

Nothing, nothing is crazier than scum no killing, and leaving town in mylo not lylo. Or scum killing boon even though the SECOND town protective claim said he would protect boon.

Let me ask you this. As scum, you've had 2 doc town claims, don't you think you'd take advantage of that? Don't you think you'd try to steer a mislynch in that direction? Did you or Dave ever even reach L-2?

Now look at what Dave did. Dave laid the groundwork for town to believe in 2 separate doc claims. Then, after you retracted, he TR'd you anyway. Doesn't that seem odd? That he was determined to TR you? That neither protective claim even reached L-2?

[The Mighty Ducks]

Quack?