Mini Normal 2040: Day 4

[Sashaddin]

A warm salute to those I know and a tepid one to those I don't.

VOTE: Dva

[Sashaddin]

Let's fastwagon the chewy bastard!

OOOOOh! A wagon! *Stomp*

VOTE: Trebor

[Sashaddin]

Mod notes: Not sure who Trebor is, so these votes are ignored.

I didn't know either, I just like jumping on a wagon!

[Sashaddin]

Don't know her!

[Sashaddin]

Well he did move off my RVS wagon onto a wagon on a

player that doesn't exist

so I'll agree with you that his play this game so far is curious

Going along with a joke is curious?

[Sashaddin]

Sash seems to avoid mentioning names in his rvs

Seeing I knew half the line-up, I thought I'd salute some of the town.
I have played with:
Tictac, Bright-Eyed Fish, orfhz, and not_mafia.

[Sashaddin]

k.

@DVa I don't think either of ya individually scummy, but I'm drawing an associative here in blinky neon.
Ya can say ya understand why, so I don't hafta explain?

That's cool.

[Sashaddin]

Have you played with people from different time-zones before?
Don't you think this accusation is *way* too

early

to make

Not in my time zone!

Ba-doom-boom-tish!

[Sashaddin]

k.

@DVa I don't think either of ya individually scummy, but I'm drawing an associative here in blinky neon.
Ya can say ya understand why, so I don't hafta explain?

That's cool.

....? Did you understand what tictac was talking about here?

I think it means tictac will want to lynch the second one of us if the first flips scum.

Ok. Not so cool then.

[Sashaddin]

While Sasha is bothering me tonally, I'd really like to see some more pressure on Not_mafia. I do believe he is actually capable of playing the game and we shouldn't just wash our hands of him because he chooses not to most of the time.

Is this an alt-account ?

[Sashaddin]

More townie
---
Elsa Jay
ofrhz
Clemency
---
tictac
BrightEyedFish
Auro
---
aslightrain
---
Sashaddin
Not_Mafia
---
less townie

Aren't solid reads, obviously there's not much to go on here, and I need rain to post to get any read. If Not_Mafia is just going to lolcat through this entire dayphase I'm A-ok with him getting strung up. I see no reason to think he will get easier to sort over time.

While Sasha is bothering me tonally, I'd really like to see some more pressure on Not_mafia. I do believe he is actually capable of playing the game and we shouldn't just wash our hands of him because he chooses not to most of the time.

Tictac said he was drawing associations between us, and now you're putting me in the bottom of your list. This doesn't make sense unless one of you is bussing me. So you guys are two lean town for me.

[Sashaddin]

While Sasha is bothering me tonally, I'd really like to see some more pressure on Not_mafia. I do believe he is actually capable of playing the game and we shouldn't just wash our hands of him because he chooses not to most of the time.

Is this an alt-account ?

I did mention it in that game. AP = Almost50, YES!

I know about you, it's DVa I was wondering about.

[Sashaddin]

Tictac said he was drawing associations between us, and now you're putting me in the bottom of your list. This doesn't make sense unless one of you is bussing me. So you guys are two lean town for me.

Why not try DVa scum who saw fit to push a mislynch on you after the tictac read? If you flip town tictac has no reason to believe DVa is scum with you. amirite?

In my plan B on my Excel sheet I was actually thinking BOTH of them were scum

[Sashaddin]

BrightEyedFish: He can be Town, unless he posts in the wrong thread.

It's still too soon dude

Loooooooool!

[Sashaddin]

I'd love to hear opinions from other players on this as well. I found DVa more genuine in the exchange - hard to imagine her getting angry and threatening to replace out as scum motivated, so I'm townreading her for now. If it comes down to tictac and Not_Mafia, I'd choose the latter.

After reading through that pile of animosity, this sentence reflects my point of view. I'd keep DVa over N_M for towny reasons.
Pulling back the random vote now.

UNVOTE: DVa

[Sashaddin]

But for the sake of consistency, let's just assume we have 2 scum ATM and look for pairs. Seems fine for now right?

This is my first 10-player and you're saying 2, so I assume 3 scums is too much for such a little town?

[Sashaddin]

2 mislynches (Policy Lynch =/= Scum Lynch) + 2 NKs and we are already at MyLo (assuming 2 scums) or have lost (assuming 3 scums). I'll go for 2 scums bc I don't think a mini normal would give you only one mislynch before you are in LyLo/MyLo.

Found this later, sorry for the previous question.

[Sashaddin]

I've read and re-read Tictac's iso a few times, it's short. I couldn't find anything anti-town or scummy. Is the only tell the question about the day chat? Am I missing something?

[Sashaddin]

@Sash: Check my posts 147, 214 and 266.

Thoughts?

I agree with 147 a lot, and with 214 too. 266 is less telling to me, but I can't go opposite of it either.
What I get, in short, is that he was being evasive as f and that pinged you a lot.

[Sashaddin]

"let's sheep N_M on a fake wagon without asking him why he's not voting someone who isn't in the game"

Because I thought it was humorous? I'm having fun in the RVS, I get serious afterwards.
And because I didn't know about that side of N_M, I only knew about the quickhammer part.

[Sashaddin]

Regarding 313 and 321, where 2 of you say I'm less engaged:
There has been three discussions where I did not feel concerned at all: the Trevor wagon, the Overwatch thing and the A50/N_M/DVa Devil's triangle. I did not have anything to say in those so I kept away, and I must admit I was afraid this game would go to hell just like my last ones because of too many replacements, Tictac being the first. I also think there was not enough meat in the thread for me to have good reads yet too, and those who know me know that Day1 is the most difficult one for me. I lurk a bit at the start but then I'm ready by Day 2.
The only real good case I've seen is on Tictac, I've read a good case on him, but I want to get rid of my bad habits so I am a bit reluctant to sheeeeeep again.

[Sashaddin]

@DVa: You've mentioned twice that I'm "tonally" off from before, If you want to tell me why (after this game) I would appreciate it, because I can't see what I'm doing differently here.

[Sashaddin]

mind if i steal that for my signature wowee

mind if i steal that for my signature wowee

Your signature should be:
1...e4 2...Ke2

??

[Sashaddin]

For what it's worth, I find Carmen way more towny than Tictac right now. But Tictac was pissed...

[Sashaddin]

I don't need to wait for post-game

Thank you for answering!

Maybe I'm more confident because I think I got better! Seeing a lot of familiar names did indeed made me looser, I felt this was since the beginning.
In any case, you can read me better than I can myself!

[Sashaddin]

@Sash: What about Carmen's posts appear towny to you? I'm not quite seeing it.

The duo 258-260 and the analysis leading to his previous reads. But to be fair, I did not find Tictac too towny either, I had him null until I asked and Clem answered.

[Sashaddin]

mind if i steal that for my signature wowee

mind if i steal that for my signature wowee

Your signature should be:
1...e4 2...Ke2

??

are you talking shit about the ultimate forbidden technique
the undefeated strategem
the infallible Bongcloud?

Yes I am
impossible
Light it up bro!

[Sashaddin]

@Sashaddin
https://lichess.org/kCESMSTO

If this is for playing a game with me, I can't move the black pieces. Must I create an account or something?

[Sashaddin]

My town reads are DVa, Elsa Jay, Carmen and Clemency, without order.
I have a slight town lean on Auro.
No scum yet despite reading again and again, but it could be in the duo A50-N_M because I didn't even go there since it appears they are not considered for today. And because one of them is unreadable.

[Sashaddin]

So use your skills to read the readable of the two. Do you have questions for me?

1. After reading your iso, I realized you have a very confident attitude about not being lynched today. I do not know if that's towny or scummy by itself, but it's something I'll be having in my head for the rest of the game.
2. The only "force" that blocks the N_M wagon seems to be you, towntell and all. It annoys me that it's still a secret but I respect your intellectual property.
3. Your opinion of the Tictac slot hasn't changed when Clemency came in, you're still suspicious (379).
4. In 130 and 336 you have me as town, then town lean. In 381I'm implicitly not town anymore.

1-a) Was it your intention to be a leader in this game or was it the N_M thing that got you to the front?
1-b) What about Day 2 and your lynching potential?

2-Not a question, but if you see a tell like this in me just tell me please
2-a) Will you defend N_M to the last day since you're persuaded he's town?

3-a) You don't like that slot with either player in it, why aren't you putting it at L-1 (since M_M is on it)?

4-a) Why? What did I do?

[Sashaddin]

Right. In that case it must have been a scumread after #329.

Ah, I didn't see anything scummy in that post. Tbh, I still don't see it.

[Sashaddin]

OMGWTFBBQ!!!!111
Since I went to sleep: five pages, two claims and an ice cream truck.

After reading this, I think I recognize the flailing of BEF, I was his target in our last game and he turned out as scum.
I

intent to hammer BEF

, but I'll wait after I get done with my son's Halloween run tonight. I won't do it without a few veterans opinion though.

Is it common to see Day-something roles? This is the first I see.

[Sashaddin]

4. I had you as Town "for now". It was preliminary readlist that included some joke/humour reads. Then I had you as Town lean, and still there. I don't "explicitly" TR you =/= I explicitly have you as not town. An explicit TR = just that a TOWN READ. You are only a Town lean, thus not explicitly a TR. Got it?

Town lean != confident town read, got it. To me that was still town-something, I'll adjust my semantics.
[/quote]

Now you look like you're good at some basic level reads, but you don't do much of the higher level scum hunting. If you remember (and I'm sure you do) I tried to L-1 someone early as AP. Here, I tried the same, just not in the exact same manner (i.e. I didn't try to do it myself, but rather wanted to state intent and get a claim). Do you see any similarities at all? What was my alignment there?

The higher level scum-hunting eludes me for now, true. I'm only 6 months old into this world. But I'm trying to learn and everyone here has been nice in helping me as we play.
When you say L-1, if you speak about the "failed vote", I think I get it.

Because then I would need someone else to state intent in order to get that claim. Sometimes you sit on a wagon too long and the player stalls based on "nobody stated intent" so it's useless. I'm not putting Carmen @L-1 for the sake of it. I want to get a claim from this specific slot. Carmen could even save us all the trouble (and some time) by claiming now.

As for the last one, I don't understand the question. Why what? Do where?

So Carmen should claim unless she's an investigative role?
Also, I thought asking for a claim on Day 1 was anti-town, I think I read that in a game.
The "What did I do" was about me leaving the townies section of your read list and moving towards the center.

[Sashaddin]

Intent to hammer if (whoever said they had intent but wanted to be done with their kid's Halloween party first) doesn't hammer.

Don't worry.

[Sashaddin]

Intent to hammer if (whoever said they had intent but wanted to be done with their kid's Halloween party first) doesn't hammer.

Don't worry.

Oh I read it wrong, I will in about 4-5 hours but you free to do it before if you want to.

[Sashaddin]

Well since Dva invited, he's only at 4 now.

To Almost50: I'm voting to get him back to L-1. Do what you wish.
VOTE:

[Sashaddin]

Ahem.
VOTE: Bright Eyed Fish

[Sashaddin]

I'm talking about your read on tictac's slot. You said you had him null till Clem answered. Which post are you referring to? 329? And how did that change your read on tictac?

Yours, 147. You underlined his slipperiness.

[Sashaddin]

So Elsa Jay's counter claim was just a big lie.
VOTE: Elsa Jay

[Sashaddin]

What's your reasoning, N-M?

[Sashaddin]

VOTE: Sashaddin

convince me this isn't the best wagon today

Ok... EJ claimed something improbable, got caught and is probably scum for this. Lynch all liars?

[Sashaddin]

I've been townreading Elsa since page 2. Who is townreading Sashaddin right now?

How do you explain this counterclaim? Especially from a towny?

[Sashaddin]

I don’t think elsa’s daycop cc was serious. I’m kind of wondering why she’s alive tho

Well fine. It's a complement because I gotta do this shit.

Mafia appear to be informed and know about Daycop because I'm the Daycop.

Checked Almost's slot and knew he was town, so when the replacement option came I made sure to get Almost because I trust his reads really well.

I don't know... Seemed pretty official to me.

[Sashaddin]

At this point He's not co-operative so I'll explain it.

If He's scum: he knows if mafia is informed or not, and if there's no real Daycop his partner wont waste a shot on me because at that point he KNOWS I'm lying.

If He's a Vanilla Townie who fucked up a gambit: He should have called me out by now and rescinded his claim so we dont fucking lynch him. Actually, we'll lynch him anyway, but we atleast let him try to give his actual case on me instead of a fake Daycop.

Whether I'm really Daycop or not in either of these situations doesnt matter. I still know he isn't Daycop because the results are wrong,

Like this one?

[Sashaddin]

if you're town in that situation you wait for him to flip not daycop and then it's obvious that he was lying.

So the counterclaim didn't change anything to the outcome of the day. I'll wait for Elsa to get off work, because I think I don't understand anything now.
UNVOTE: Elsa Jay

[Sashaddin]

Vibes are fine form Sasha. I just never saw scum!him so I'm not positive.

There you go. It was my first ever game though, so it might not tell much.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=76282

[Sashaddin]

Vibes are fine form Sasha. I just never saw scum!him so I'm not positive.

There you go. It was my first ever game though, so it might not tell much.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=76282

[Sashaddin]

@Sasha: Gimme the tl;dr. How do YOU think your scum game differs from your town game?

I was a lot more discreet as scum, not to "slip" and out my partner. I spoke about me a lot of the time and not much against other players iirc, so they wouldn't make associations. This got well until I got lynched on the last night (I missed a quickhammer by being away from comp )
Since that game I've always been town. I think I'm getting better at interacting with other people as I play, I engage a lot more, screw the possible associations. I can defend, and attack a bit. I still have a lot of difficulty on Day 1 but as the game narrows I get better.

[Sashaddin]

Miller isn't a TPR, he was either a Miller for a town gunsmith or a false positive for a scum gunsmith, leaning the second but could be either

OK. I accept that. So, Scum!GS, Town!GS, or Neapolitan. And you get town poinrts for saying this before I posted my own list of questions.

You have covered 3 roles, but might there also be a scum doctor? Since we had (at least?) two vigilantes.... from the wiki: "It is not unheard of for Mafia to have Doctors of their own in games with Vigilantes[...]"

This could mean Auro shot someone with his single bullet but got blocked by the Doctor, without producing any message of the fired shot.

[Sashaddin]

That's way less likely than the chances that he didn't shoot. There is no reason at the moment to imagine there is a scum doctor. The likelihood that Auro didn't shoot is quite frankly very high; the chances that he shot and the target was saved by a scum doctor is so low as to be absurd frankly.

Ok. Just trying to figure how and why the people had those roles, doctor came to mind when I did.

[Sashaddin]

That's way less likely than the chances that he didn't shoot. There is no reason at the moment to imagine there is a scum doctor. The likelihood that Auro didn't shoot is quite frankly very high; the chances that he shot and the target was saved by a scum doctor is so low as to be absurd frankly.

Ok. Just trying to figure how and why the people had those roles, doctor came to mind when I did.

[Sashaddin]

OK, how about some hypo claiming? Let's go with Neapolitan. Everybody will state a hypothetical Target and give a result (Vanilla/Not Vanilla).

Looks interesting, never done this.

[Sashaddin]

If we have 1 or 2 VTs then either can confirm these, and thus we'd have the potential to confirm 1 or 2 townies.

I think I read somewhere that there is at least one VT in every setup. Could be wrong though.

[Sashaddin]

If I divide it further...

{Ofrhz, Sashaddin}
{Carmen, Clemency, NotMafia}

Those 2 groups probably have one scum each.

Why would it be either orfhz or me? Because she is voting me at the moment? Maybe voting 2nd on a need-5 wagon could distance us efficiently as scums?
I notice your second set contains all the voters (except DVa whom you trust), is there another reason I'm not seeing besides what I said?

I don't want to come out bullish or anything, it's just that I've had these questions in mind since I read your post and now I feel like asking.

[Sashaddin]

No we definitely shouldn't

Because...?

[Sashaddin]

Neapolitan -> Not-Mafia is not vanilla.
Gunsmith -> DVa has a gun
Vanilla Cop -> Almost50 is vanilla.

[Sashaddin]

You and Ofrhz fall under what I call "follower scummers". You aren't the ones who come up with the plans, just follow them.

If I were scum, I'd probably be a follower, indeed. Thanks for your detailed answer!

[Sashaddin]

I'm also not ignoring the fact you said this, Sash. What the HECK is this? I atleast expected you to go after Ofr for that, or even me... But nobody? Sigh.

I wanted to think before typing, like reading orfhz'iso or something.. When I don't think, I look impulsive and... what you think of me above. I also didn't have type to type much iirc, my wife is in post partum so she's very naggy. I can jump off here in there during the day. During nighttime I have more time. I'll go spend some time on this game now.

[Sashaddin]

In post 313 Orfhz reads a bit of town into BEF. From 441 and up she is puttting pressure on him.I could read this as distancing since BEF was pretty much going to be the lynch of that day. Not much else in there. I don't think I can have a case on her with only this.

[Sashaddin]

650 was pretty bad considering there was just someone who "claimed something improbable, got caught" and was town.

To be honest, I don't remember anyone saying anything that had countering EJ's claim, so I thought everyone was along with it. I thought BEF "bluff" about his role had fished a scum... I didn't see the obviousness, sorry.

[Sashaddin]

It's not distancing because BEF wasn't scum

Ugh. Of course. So, I'm not having a good day on the internet either. Going to bed hoping tomorrow will be better.

[Sashaddin]

Since NotMaf isnt on this wagon, consider him basically at L-1.

What's the best move here? Claim, or do nothing since you wanna hear from Carmen first?

[Sashaddin]

Clemency has the higher chance of being scum imo. I think she's dodging a lot and didn't go in depth. I also doubt his claim of being a bodyguard.
Not_Mafia would be second. I got a feeling for this but I won't say why now.

Is it a good idea to say that I think that X got the town power role Y?

[Sashaddin]

like he's gone from "lost and confused" to "basically shitposting" and it's a really weird development for him if he's town

I acknowledge it is not my usual behavior, but this is my 6th game and I'm getting more confortable. I liked the absurdity in voting on someon who wasn't here, so I followed that for fun. As for the loool, I remember being impressed by the quantity of posts there had been in like 6 hours, and weird stuff was in there too. I was just way too excited I guess.
If that is what shitposting is, I won't do it again. I just don't want to cost town the 2nd strike

[Sashaddin]

OK, well then convince me that one out of Clemency or Not_Mafia is a better lynch today than you

Both have been posting mostly one liners, making them very difficult to read, intentionally or not. I believe this is the game I feel the most comfortable in so far and I think I posted good content. Of course I'm an easy lynch, but a bad lynch.
My problem with defending myself is that I can't find anything meaningful to me in their isos. Eh.

[Sashaddin]

Sash, do you actually think Clem is a BG?

Well if there are vigilantes I guess there could be BG to spice things up, but the claim was made with a weird timing. So I'd say it's plausible, but improbable to me.

[Sashaddin]

Sash, put the 7 people here that aren't you in a lynch order for me? From 1 through 7. I want to see where you are currently.

Clemency
NotMafia
DVa
Elsa Jay
Orfhz
Almost50

Carmen should be somewhere near the middle, but it's been too long since that slot interacted. And yeah I calmed down and got over your false claim.

[Sashaddin]

Please hammer Carmen. If that's a scum slot DVa could very well be her partner. If it flips Town, DVa is confirmed Town. (see, saves someone a check)

I'd prefer to hear more from the replacement player, but if you insist I can do it now instead of waiting for EJ.

[Sashaddin]

I'll give the mod until 5 PM my time. So an hour and a half. I'll hammer if there's no replacement. Sorry Dva.

Didn't see this sorry.

[Sashaddin]

Not Mafia was first on the wagon, and repeatedly said so. Was it an honest mistake or his scum game in action?
Anyways, 2 out of 5 are scum and we can't miss a lynch anymore, right?

[Sashaddin]

Not Mafia was first on the wagon, and repeatedly said so. Was it an honest mistake or his scum game in action?
Anyways, 2 out of 5 are scum and we can't miss a lynch anymore, right?

[Sashaddin]

@Sasha: Any hypo claims?

If you mean who are my suspects, they are Not_Mafia and ofrhz. I need more reading too though, I didn't had a chance in the last 48 hours.

[Sashaddin]

VOTE: Sashaladdin

Interestingly enough (for me), I composed my nickname from 3 names and Aladdin (the thief) is one of them. The others are Saladin and Hashashin (the word that assassin comes from), it means hashish smoker. The assassins used to smoke hash before going for a kill. Cool, huh?

[Sashaddin]

Orfhz has LESS activity than me, which is weird because I'm usually the guy with the least posts. That's enough for me.
VOTE: Orfhz

[Sashaddin]

Oh yeah, my vote was third so

L-1

[Sashaddin]

Should I pull my vote before NM quickhammers?

[Sashaddin]

Should I pull my vote before NM quickhammers?

Sigh

[Sashaddin]

Spoiler:

I agree that: {Brighteyedfish, Clemency, sashaddin} is the gamesolving sort.

I wouldn't go so far as to say there's likely two scum there

I would

Fugu and What are scum

Fugu is the fish guy
What is Clemency

VOTE: Clemency

VOTE: Carmen

gg

Carmen is scum because Carmen is really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really really scummy

Just vote Carmen

I have hope we can win this game despite DVa's best efforts

VOTE: Sashaladdin

He voted wxclusively for townies, all the time. Seems like a basic scum game to me.

What bugs me is the last hit at DVa. Was it sarcasm towards his partner? I don't think NM_M would have appreciated DVa's play that much.

[Sashaddin]

I sheep the above.

[Sashaddin]

VOTE: Not_Mafia
You will regret it udderly, cow scum.

[Sashaddin]

Dayvig: Elsa Jay

Does this mean you've just killed during the day phase?

[Sashaddin]

Does this mean you've just killed during the day phase?

Oh no you claimed VT right after. I'm confused.

[Sashaddin]

Ah! Youwere a DayVig, shot het and now you lost your power so you're a VT now. Right?

[Sashaddin]

But... but... didn't we need 3 to lynch?

[Sashaddin]

I forgot about that post. I don't have a lot of experience and fell for it

[Sashaddin]

It's 2 AM, let's hope we won when I wake up. Later!

[Sashaddin]

Sashaddin is our IC here, so hopefully he can help me figure out Dva and solve this game together. Or, if he also suspects me, to let me clear his thoughts on the matter with any questions he has.

What's an IC and why am I it?

[Sashaddin]

UNVOTE: Not_Mafia
He's still my favorite lynch, but I sense there is something I'm missing here. I'll iso every one of you at work in an hour, maybe I'll find something. For now:
N-M >¨DVa > EJ. Let's see later if this holds.

[Sashaddin]

I do weird things, I admit it. I just wanted to hace that softclaim interpreted for mafia to shoot me or something. I picked ice cream because I'm the Ice Queen and it's snowing here, so it felt appropriate.

Why would you want mafia to shoot you?

[Sashaddin]

Nm I didnt hammer you in this post

Does that change your read?

It changed mine.

Ok, I looked at EJ's iso and I can find a lot of town hints, but I see a few scum posts as well. When I see N_M, I see nothing but short one liners. I picked up a lot of posts about N_M shifting his vote around the place, always on townies so far. Why woujld I believe his push on EJ be anything but? I can see why I'm the deciding factor here.

[Sashaddin]

VOTE: DVa

Smellsa, let's vote DVa

He just posts for the sake of posting

I'm not going to go through and do a post by post breakdown because I'll go in to a coma

But what DVa actually done all game, what scum has he pushed, how has he advanced the game state? His posts may have "words" but they're all empty calories

VOTE: Smellsa Gay

I told you all it was Smellsa

All of this in the same half-page. What do you think about the above, DVa?

[Sashaddin]

The join date is recent, that means EJ is an alt of an older player. Would an older player not know this? I remember him saying he was coming back to Mafia after 6 months, maybe he forgot. Hmmm.

[Sashaddin]

A50 was scum reading you (DVa) as orfhz's partner, but he said in the same post it could finally be N_M. Since you're comfirmed town to me...
The crumbing is suspicious too, though.
Do I trust A50 who covered for N_M for most of the game, or you who is supplying arguments?

[Sashaddin]

Intent to vote Elsa Jay

[Sashaddin]

VOTE: Elsa Jay

[Sashaddin]

Sashaddin was just weird to me because he's a newb. No offense, of course.

None taken, of course

[Sashaddin]

In either scenario
Town had a strong investigative (a gunsmith that knows there's no scum doctor or traitor), with one negative utility (one confirmable vig and one unconfirmable vig/basically gunsmith miller), and a weak protective
Scum had an informed goon, and considering the value of the town's informed status,

it probably was some good information that might *have increased the desire for fakeclaims*

-- but we don't know this, and it is plausible that Elsa simply did random bullshit he always does that happened to make him look really shady after ofhrz's flip + a50's flip

The risk that N_M wins as scum here after being a douche to me the entire game is really holding me back, but I am trying my very best to be objective.

but what do we got:
on the prospect of N_M scum
N_M open wolfed as he always does
N_M sometimes changed his reads, which he's capable of doing as scum
N_M didn't do some of the memey bullshit he does as town

but, on the prospect of N_M town
N_M actually cased someone which is kinda uncommon for him as scum
N_M changed his reads *more frequently* than he does as scum
N_M seems a bit more engaged than he usually does as scum in recent months

with the thought I am trying not to focus on in interests of winning the game
N_M basically shittunneled people for the entire game which makes it hard to feel like he deserves to win, but that doesn't mean *we deserve to lose if he is town*

VS
on the prospect of elsa scum,
ofhrz's interactions with Elsa feel a little bit more like S+S to me
Elsa never really questioned my assertion that the informed nature of the scum was that they knew town had a gunsmith, instead focusing on whether his crumb wouldn't have been a guilty to a gunsmith (maybe tmi slip?)

The assertion he didn't know cop was a guilty to gunsmith is still hard to buy, although plausible since he has never played with a gunsmith
His top priority in exiting RVS was creating a crumb that would have happened to be a response to our gunsmith investigative, which would match the strategy of scum with an informed role

Elsa hard pocketed A50 after Clem had revealed his role as a weak protective and A50 basically confirmed he was real investigative by announcing his guilty on ofhrz

but, on the prospect of Elsa as town
Elsa lynched Carmen through my threat of a vig shot (as implausible as it was at that point, it's pretty likely he didn't believe me)
Elsa seemed more protown some of the time, but also risked lynching Carmen without a claim just because A50 was pressuring him to
Elsa's interactions with ofhrz's seems a little bit outside his normal play as scum


This is what Elsa claimed after A50 basically revealed he was a gunsmith with a guilty on ofhrz:

What makes you think I didnt put my real claim in my fake claim, Almost?

yikes

going to give you both some time to respond to these two scenarios and any new accusations I've mentioned

I think the real story is in bold. You did a good job analyzing this.

Elsa leans scum a lot more than Not_Mafia to me right now. I'm not sure of either, but Elsa appears more and more scummy as we dig, while NM's style leaves my opinion unchanged.

UNVOTE: Elsa Jay
so I can sleep on it, in case.

[Sashaddin]

DVa's post over the last 24 hours have actually been good #notbrownosing #iswear

I agree.

[Sashaddin]

Spoiler:

VOTE: Sashaddin

convince me this isn't the best wagon today

Ok... EJ claimed something improbable, got caught and is probably scum for this. Lynch all liars?

I don’t think elsa’s daycop cc was serious. I’m kind of wondering why she’s alive tho

Well fine. It's a complement because I gotta do this shit.

Mafia appear to be informed and know about Daycop because I'm the Daycop.

Checked Almost's slot and knew he was town, so when the replacement option came I made sure to get Almost because I trust his reads really well.

I don't know... Seemed pretty official to me.

read the rest of her posts

VOTE: sasha

So Elsa Jay's counter claim was just a big lie.
VOTE: Elsa Jay

If you couldn't tell after my last posts that my role claim was fake I really don't knlw what to tell ya. Will answer fully when not at work

Nah, we're not lynching Sasha. Elsa probably deserves to die for her play around the daycop counterclaim but I'm not actually convinced that she's scum.

Like, if you're town and someone fakeclaims a daycop guilty on you, that's not how you play it. That's probably the fucking worst possible way you

could

play it. BEF was getting lynched anyways - if you're town in that situation you wait for him to flip not daycop and then it's obvious that he was lying.

I think weirdly, so let me explain while I head out to eat.

I claimed "informed mafia" because I was in a game recently that had that brought up as a possibility, so I was seeing if Fish was informed and i was trying to get shot by the mafia to prove if they're informed.

I

knew

he was lying, but on the off chance I helped the real PR not get shot, I was trying to do the Elsa special and fuck everything up for them.

Didn't expect him to turn out to be the real damn TPR fake claiming or ANOTHER TPR to get shot.

I claimed "informed mafia" because I was in a game recently that had that brought up as a possibility, so I was seeing if Fish was informed and i was trying to get shot by the mafia to prove if they're informed.

How would you know that mafia are informed in your theoretical scenario? Are you saying you expected mafia to believe that

you

were informed that there was a

mafia

informed?

No, I wanted them to shoot me if they were informed about there being a Daycop. But then again, if they

were

informed they would know I was lying and not shoot me...

So I guess they could be informed since they didn't shoot me? I didnt think this through.

Pedit: the VC was too get shot or WIFOM the fuck out of the game obviously, but since Fish day 1 did it, I'm not trying my hand at that shit anymore.

All of this got me wondering... This is what I'm thinking about at this moment. That beginning of Day 2 holds the key I guess.

[Sashaddin]

For all those days since the beginning until NOW, I realized I had read post 667 wrong. This is what made me unsure. This one and the rest can connect together now.

VOTE: ELSA JAY

[Sashaddin]

Thanks for modding DrDolittle!

Thanks to DVa who took the time to spark confusion in my mind when I was voting N_M!

[Sashaddin]

Guess it's up to Dva to decide then.

What's wrong with 667?

I was reading it as:
If you're

scum

... which prevented me to connnect with the other hints.