Overkill 1: Serenity/Firefly (GAME OVER)

[Thor665]

Like, if Nico/Tails is not town, they gotta basically be a 3p Simon/River or something.

[Thor665]

Or Chick is derp scum.
But, meh, Chick decided to sign a death warrant if scum have any ability to pop through a Doc protect, so what are the odds of that?

[Reasonably Rational]

Tails - You don't get to say that Nico "just flaked". Nico literally crossed into game throwing territory in another game (again; now complete) with the claim of not enough time to play. Suicided out of that game by desperado shooting me. But

intentionally

remained in this game, despite this game being a much heavier load and more time consuming.

What motive explains that?

I understand why you both ignored this the first time around and

then

tried to drop bullshit into the game to get people to believe that Nico just "flaked" but ... that doesn't hold up to any kind of scrutiny.

~D

You guys didn't replace in. Nico didn't replace out upon seeing you enter sign-ups. So it appears she was set on playing the game with you guys in it. You both admitted in the queue that you were carrying grudges against each other. She voted you first chance she got. And now you're carrying a vendetta against her slot. From what it sounds like, your last game together was very different as far as circumstances go, where she had the ability to both act on her grudge and take both of you out of the game. You're assuming the same sort of utility was available to her here. It was not. You're assuming that she would have replaced out sooner instead of prod dodging and flaking, because she acted earlier in your other game. But she didn't /out when she saw you sign up, so what makes you really think that she'd replace out immediately as either alignment here? The fact remains that there's evidence suggesting she really wanted to play this game and then couldn't for whatever reason. I have further evidence that suggests to me that she just flaked out and never came back. That's not me speculating. That's me knowing. If you have a grudge against Nico, fine. Work that out on your own time. But leave me out of it. Otherwise, this whole endeavor is just really dishonest.

Fuck off with that bullshit. Neither Cerb nor I expressed any grudge against NR anywhere, let alone the signup thread. You just wandered into LAL territory as far as I'm concerned. Your entire post is a bunch of horse shit because that's all you have. You have ATE and now outright lying to try and avoid the noose. Fucking pathetic (play; obviously).

~D

[Reasonably Rational]

Like, if Nico/Tails is not town, they gotta basically be a 3p Simon/River or something.

Please explain how you arrive at this conclusion. It seems to rely upon Chick being honest. But if it

does

rely on that, it also has a huge logical flaw.

Chick's supposed day one cop was TPFKAP and the clue was not in any way related to the actual character that TPFKAP was... except that A50 decided to make Dobson aware that the HoB teams exist and aligned him with them. In terms of the show/movie ... there's no connection between Dobson and HoB.

So if the

first

clue didn't show the actual character ... why do you assume the second does?

~D

[Tails]

1.) RR brings up past game where Nico suicided and game threw because of grudge.
2.) RR then says they'd expect Nico to do the same thing here as town (Nevermind the how) or replace out earlier
3.) RR ignores that Nico not avoiding the game when they signed up or replacing out beforehand or early on points to Nico actually wanting to play in the game. This is regardless of alignment.

The logic does not flow here. Especially when RR brings up Nico wanting them to play in another game with her at the start of this game's d1, pointing to no grudge or wanting to avoid them. But then they use the grudge thing here as proof of alignment? If Nico did not want to play with you as town here, why would she even invite you to play in another game where you could both be town?

And that's regardless of the fact that ALIGNMENT IS NAI!

[Reasonably Rational]

Sorry ... gotta pick apart Tails' shit show of a post bit by bit. This might take the cake for worst post I've ever seen, and that's definitely saying something.

You guys didn't replace in. Nico didn't replace out upon seeing you enter sign-ups. So it appears she was set on playing the game with you guys in it.

No shit, Sherlock. You managed to work out that we didn't replace into the game and that Nico knew we were in the game from the start. Well fucking done. We never would have figured that shit out without you.

And thanks for reinforcing my point. NR, for some reason, was intent on playing this game while she felt the need to literally suicide out of a smaller game due to time constraints. When said game had less than 500 posts.

You both admitted in the queue that you were carrying grudges against each other.

Outright lie. Cerb said "Me too" in response to a post where NR said she wasn't over the game. That's not carrying a grudge. If Cerb or I (or both of us) were to have a grudge against someone, it would be Mastina for intentionally wasting a shit ton of my time in the final day phase and then going "Well ... I'd rather lose WITH you than TO you" and deciding what to do based upon that instead of ... you know ... the game.

She voted you first chance she got. And now you're carrying a vendetta against her slot.

Yes she did vote for us basically immediately.

Calling a very solid case with good reasoning a vendetta is amusing at best. You're nowhere near "at best" though. It's actually pretty sad and pathetic, especially given just how far you seem willing to stoop here.

From what it sounds like, your last game together was very different as far as circumstances go, where she had the ability to both act on her grudge and take both of you out of the game.

You might want to actually go look at something before you make wild unsubstantiated guesses. Just making shit up out of thin air is a bad look.

You're assuming the same sort of utility was available to her here. It was not.

Yes. We'll just take your word for it. That sounds like a brilliant plan. Man why didn't I think of that before?

You're assuming that she would have replaced out sooner instead of prod dodging and flaking, because she acted earlier in your other game.

Yes. When someone suicides out of a game with less than 500 posts and says they don't have time, it's absolutely

reasonable

to assume they would also not have time for a much larger game. That implies some

reason

to stay in the larger game. It's only weak evidence ... but it's far from the only piece.

But she didn't /out when she saw you sign up, so what makes you really think that she'd replace out immediately as either alignment here?

The fact that she chose to literally suicide out of a much smaller game to "save the mod" having to replace her. If someone is

THAT

busy then it follows they would also replace out of even more time consuming games. And ummm ... I never said "immediately" ... you just introduced that (along with quite a lot of made up bullshit in your post) to try and put words in my mouth. It's weaksauce strawmanning at best.

The fact remains that there's evidence suggesting she really wanted to play this game and then couldn't for whatever reason.

I'm glad we agree that NicoRobin expressed a reason to want to play this game. Literally expressed a vendetta against us in fact.

I have further evidence that suggests to me that she just flaked out and never came back.

That's not me speculating. That's me knowing.

Oh do tell. I'd really like to know how you know this for sure.

If you have a grudge against Nico, fine. Work that out on your own time. But leave me out of it. Otherwise, this whole endeavor is just really dishonest.

You're the one who introduced the idea that we have a grudge. We don't. You should check yourself before you come after my integrity again. Maybe ask around. You just attacked me personally and I don't put up with that shit.

---

This bullshit made up straw man pile of horse shit isn't going to cut it. How about you give us ANY reason to add even a smidge of weight to the "might be town" side of the scales, because so far all you've done is cry about the mod misrepresenting the slot to you, make a bunch of posts about how you aren't going to read the thread and therefore nobody can hold you accountable to what has gone on (awful convenient stance), post a shit ton of ATE, and then you decided to just make a bunch of shit up and have a go at me personally.

~D

[Reasonably Rational]

1.) RR brings up past game where Nico suicided and game threw because of grudge.

2.) RR then says they'd expect Nico to do the same thing here as town (Nevermind the how) or replace out earlier

3.) RR ignores that Nico not avoiding the game when they signed up or replacing out beforehand or early on points to Nico actually wanting to play in the game. This is regardless of alignment.

The logic does not flow here. Especially when RR brings up Nico wanting them to play in another game with her at the start of this game's d1, pointing to no grudge or wanting to avoid them. But then they use the grudge thing here as proof of alignment? If Nico did not want to play with you as town here, why would she even invite you to play in another game where you could both be town?

And that's regardless of the fact that ALIGNMENT IS NAI!

#1 - Keep on spinning the grudge bullshit. Seriously. Keep on just making shit up and calling me dishonest and see how this goes.

#2 - If you don't stop posting made up shit, I'm going to actually get angry. That doesn't happen often. I never said I expected NR to suicide out of this game. I did say it's reasonable to believe that if she didn't have time to play a game less than 500 posts and suicided out of it then it would logically follow that she would REPLACE OUT of this game. She instead intentionally stayed in and prodged. She was replaced because people asked to override the game rules.

#3 - I'm going to assume you legitimately misunderstood. I've argued that Nico specifically stayed in and wanted to be in this game. But obviously not enough to actually

post and play

. So what exactly was she hanging around for? Could it be to carry out that vendetta she declared way back at the start of the game?

Also ... you may want to do some research and actually UNDERSTAND what "weak evidence" means. It's not the same thing as "Proof".

And just LMFAO at you saying "ALIGNMENT IS NOT ALIGNMENT INDICATIVE" at the end. I mean ... way to display amazing competence and proficiency there.

~D

[Tails]

Given the context, I obviously meant activity. But sure. Go on spinning your little wheels there. And you try to crap on me and say that I'm making crap up, but you're the one that brought up Nico's vendetta against you, you brought it up again as something she declared "at the start of the game", and you're making it supporting evidence in your case. You can call that kettle whatever you want, but you are coming off as incredibly sore about Nico's play from other games, and you've become emotionally attached to the wagon because of that. For someone that told

me

to take a step back earlier, you're refusing to do the same thing here. Have you thought that perhaps Nico stuck around because she liked the flavor of the game more? Or maybe the mod? Or maybe one of many other little things? I can't profess to know her actual thought process, but I know enough about my role and Nico's actions surrounding the role to know that she just wasn't here.

At this point, I don't expect you to get out of your little tunnel. You're spiraling and emotional, and I'm sure if I didn't point out the problem with the activity tell and your thought process there, someone else would have. You're ignoring points other players are bringing up. You're essentially ignoring anything I say or twisting it to fit your perception of the game. I'm really not going to bother from now on, but I thought it worth a shot, so that maybe, just maybe, you could step back for just a second and live up to your user name.

[Reasonably Rational]

@Thor: I don't think Nancy is happening. Who's your second choice?

Ari or maybe RR would be my next preferred. I'd probably compromise onto McMeeno.
Considering what Jingle just said about their thoughts on our roles and my expected thoughts on your flip maybe you

@Thor: Forgot to quote, sorry. I am not hard towning NDS. I am, however, unwilling to vote anywhere that I believe is less likely to find scum than Flicker and Tails, and NDS falls into that category(as does McMenno).

@Gamma: Really Gamma? Mental gymnastics? Please tell me you're capable of saying more than that in an attempt to dissuade me from a position I'm holding.

As someone who has been basically agreeing with Gamma's thoughts here, allow me to tag team in.

You do appear to be bending hard to suggest scum results.
Movies lack HoB - so video is unconnected in that way.
Video results from claimed cop that just show Serenity crew over and over - it's because scum are coming after them.
Nico played like a derphead in a game, ergo she was not lurking and was content to game throw or something so would do anything in this game (while doing spit all and flaking out).

Every piece of evidence is somehow evidence for your case, and that's the core evidence of a tunnel.

I agree that the '2' thing is suspect as hell, there is a big issue there and I haven't been thrilled by any answers that explain it away.
But I find it unlikely a maf would fake a cop to protect a buddy, and the cop result is a *stretch* to call a scum result.

The "cop" result is a stretch to call anything. The first "result" wasn't in any way connected to HoB that anyone uninformed could have guessed before the flip. There's just no connection in the show. TPFKAP had a character who was present for one episode but Chick was given a picture of the boogeymen.

I agree that just because the first clue was so disconnected does not require all clues to be disconnected. It's simply the only prior example we have to go on. That's why I assigned it "weak evidence" status.

The entire case on the slot is made up of pieces of "weak evidence". What the hell more do you expect when we're basically 3,350+ posts into effectively a day one?

Also ... NR/Tails being scum doesn't require Chickadee to be scum.

And then there's the "2" crumb.

And then there's the fact that Tails refuses to actually engage in anything that remotely looks like town play.

~D

P.S. - You have a really big cognitive dissonance slip in the above post.

[Reasonably Rational]

Given the context, I obviously meant activity. But sure. Go on spinning your little wheels there. And you try to crap on me and say that I'm making crap up, but you're the one that brought up Nico's vendetta against you, you brought it up again as something she declared "at the start of the game", and you're making it supporting evidence in your case. You can call that kettle whatever you want, but you are coming off as incredibly sore about Nico's play from other games, and you've become emotionally attached to the wagon because of that. For someone that told

me

to take a step back earlier, you're refusing to do the same thing here. Have you thought that perhaps Nico stuck around because she liked the flavor of the game more? Or maybe the mod? Or maybe one of many other little things? I can't profess to know her actual thought process, but I know enough about my role and Nico's actions surrounding the role to know that she just wasn't here.

At this point, I don't expect you to get out of your little tunnel. You're spiraling and emotional, and I'm sure if I didn't point out the problem with the activity tell and your thought process there, someone else would have. You're ignoring points other players are bringing up. You're essentially ignoring anything I say or twisting it to fit your perception of the game. I'm really not going to bother from now on, but I thought it worth a shot, so that maybe, just maybe, you could step back for just a second and live up to your user name.

You don't get to constantly use belittling language and also call my personal honesty into question and then pretend you're some innocent.

Try again.

~D

[CheekyTeeky]

Like, if Nico/Tails is not town, they gotta basically be a 3p Simon/River or something.

I'm pretty sure River and Simon would be aligned with Serenity given they end up being accepted into the Serenity family. If we're working on the basis that there are 9 town, I'd assume that includes River/Simon unless people were counting the extras from the movie?

[Gamma Emerald]

VOTE: Tails
I noticed the point wrt the FakeGod game that ended
That’s actually really meaningful

[CheekyTeeky]

I guess RR has a point about Tails not really doing much to prove he's town. It's hard to see what he's doing as sorting, it just looks like a massive defense to being scumread. I think it's very odd that scum would keep putting their neck out by antagonising players so it's a bit meh for me. One point of interest is that Tails did attempt to read Jingle's ISO and then kind of stopped there. I don't think anyone expected him to read the game in it's entirety but reading the ISOs of the leading wagons/players they are familiar with (like Jingle) makes sense.

Whatever is going on here I think arguing over whether it's fair someone is scumreading you probably isn't the best way to convince people you're town. Like some thoughts on Flicker, more progression on BuJaber etc would help a lot more.

RR has been very strongly town for me so I don't know what the point of all of this is if Tails is not scumreading RR.

[Tails]

One point of interest is that Tails did attempt to read Jingle's ISO and then kind of stopped there. I don't think anyone expected him to read the game in it's entirety but reading the ISOs of the leading wagons/players they are familiar with (like Jingle) makes sense.

I actually finished Jingle's ISO awhile ago and said as much in thread. I actually read through Chickadee's ISO, part of Elsa's, the mod's (mainly to look at the flip), and I started on Toog's, but then decided I didn't want to read anymore there. I also looked at Nico's ISO, but only after you asked me about a crumb and I had no idea what you were talking about.

Post about Jingle read and his ISO here:

@Jingle Bell Rock: Finished your ISO before I left yesterday. I've decided your tech talk is more playstyle, and I just wasn't used to that from you. And the neutral discussion parts that I found off are accounted for based off of the unique game mechanics. And when it comes to spec, that is a huge weakness of mine. I can help figure out role balance or sometimes flavor, but I can't account for how certain mechanics work with how the game runs or should be played. Still don't like that you made a big deal about pointing out HoB first, though, especially since masons would be a go to fake claim for a 2-man team. So not going to trust you anytime soon. Should HoB flip, that would change, but now's not the time to blindly trust your claim.

Where I essentially talked about my reads:

Chara:

Because Reading Rainbow is just wrong. Jingle is a coin toss. Cheeky is scum or town that thinks going "gotcha" is scumhunting. Flickr seems easily influenced. Yours was the first actual opportunistic vote. You saw the shiny and went for it.

And you never showed any indication that you thought I was scum before. And we had a whole conversation about how Rowdy Racoon looked town.

P-edit: You seem to have no problem jumping on the train that says I'm scum for random gibberish in a first post. I mean, I show up at every party asking if anyone's seen my pants, but I doubt anyone thinks my twin tail exhibitionism is how I secretly win at Chinese Checkers.

So translated:
RR - town
Jingle - Won't know until a HoB flip. Don't trust the Mason claim like everyone else, but I have no interest in trying to lynch him. I've given more detailed thoughts on my wariness 2 pages back.
Cheeky - Been upgraded to most likely scum. Could still be dumb town, but I'm getting fed up, and we'll probably find the math works out in favor of her being scum.
Flickr - I think I had them as likely town due to their claim. But I saw that as a sheep vote
BJ - opportunistic vote. Scum

Since then:
Chara - Null. Can probably be figured out by VCA later.
Mala - I believe the lyncher claim. She's absolutely going to be on the strongest wagon, no matter what.
Elsa- Definitely 3p. Not sold on Doctor. Can't get the flavor to work in my head. Ascetic + BP would work well for a SK, but Jingle doesn't think that's possible.

Off the wagon:
Nancy - Strong Town
Chickadee - Likely town. May be biased, but I think I figured some things out about the role, and if I'm right, she's town.
Thor - Don't care. Will figure out later.
Toog/Ari - Could lynch both, but have no strong feelings either way
Ehos - I seemed to be a counter wagon to McMenno, so could be scum. Other than that, no clue.

And I townread RR, but I'm trying to get them to step back and see how weak that read is. And that maybe, just maybe, there's a subconscious reason as well, because I wasn't the one that brought up how sore they were at Nico. I just connected the dots. I can do more homework on her sitewide activity, but it's not something I like to do and would rather just be poking somewhere else. And given there are others besides RR that want to make sure all focus stays solely on me, I guess this is what I'm doing.

[Tails]

Let's try this and see what happens.

VOTE: Aristophanes

[CheekyTeeky]

Yeah. So I guess that's what I meant by I can see why RR mechanically wants to vote you but it does look like you're trying so I'd rather lynch Flicker over you out of RR's two preferred lynches today. I think with flips coming and the potential mass claim tomorrow slots like Tails will be easier to figure out.

On a sidenote VLA is NAI right? I just find it odd that Flicker who hasn't really had much presence D2 decided to announce VLA which ends around deadline. I'm getting pretty frustrated with the low input slots tbh, if they are town they're making it a lot harder to PoE. I'm fine lynching any low input slot apart from Toogeloo today so we can move on and get some more clues. I'm still thinking there's scum in the softs/claims somewhere but there's not much I can figure out without a night of info.

[BuJaber]

Menno isn't happening then?

[CheekyTeeky]

I think he softed. But whatevs at this point.

[ruru]

votecount

With 16 alive it takes 9 to lynch.

Tails (6):	Reasonably Rational (2914),	Flicker (2952),	Chara (3104),	Malakittens (3110),	Elsa Jay (3182),	Gamma Emerald (3361),
Light Ethos (2):	Chickadee (2988),	BuJaber (3058),
Nancy Drew Shogunate (2):	Thor665 (2092),	CheekyTeeky (3292),
CheekyTeeky (2):	Light Ethos (2985),	Nancy Drew Shogunate (3312),
Chickadee (1):	Toogeloo (2872),
Aristophanes (1):	Tails (3364),
Not voting (2):	Aristophanes (2912),	Jingle (3143),

(expired on 2018-10-29 22:00:00) remain.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

it's hard to obvtown when you're inactive, to be fair.

This is the thing. Cheeky is deliberately misrepresenting what I actually said and she damn well knows it. Jump on us for what we actually did say, not agenday of what was really said. And I’m well aware and I was planning to make up for this on Day 3. I’ve been dealing with a lot and Cheeky is trying to taunt me for some reason -I’m still not sure to what end.

I love her selective reading uncomprehension. When Tails pushed on her she had a meltdown but fails to see hypocrisy in what she’s doing here. I think that irks me more than anything.

It's not the same thing at all. I haven't once insulted your intelligence, called you worthless or made you feel stupid. Beetlejuicing and omgus ARE outdated scum tells. If you think I'm misrepping you that's fine I'm not personally attacking you I just think you're scum. I don't think you're being genuine at all tbh. But I could be wrong. Also, thanks for throwing my meltdown in my face, that really shows your colours.

Just stick to your bad sr. Lay off the character assassination. I’m no no mood for that today.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

I just ISO’d RC and It reads like a pretty townie ISO to me. So, I probably won’t ever want to lynch there.

~Nancy

[Reasonably Rational]

Yep. The RC and Chara thoughts are independently obvtown imo, and I think the opinion of most of the game.

Perhaps thoughts on someone a bit more contentious would be in order.

@Tails: Real quick...I love Drixx, and he *does* sometimes get into these mind spaces where something that directly affected him is given more weight than it would if it were not related to him...but that's part of how people are period, and its mitigated by having another head. I agree with his overall assessment that there is a preponderance of weak evidence against your slot as town, and came to that conclusion prior to any mention of what happened in FakeGods game was made to me. Ignoring that particular piece of things, it still seems more likely than not that you are scum.

So please, stop attempting to attack the least significant(imo, at least) part of why we suspect you.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Oh, the first part of the bit to tails should read "I love drixx, but I will admit blah blah.

-Cerb

[Reasonably Rational]

Yeah. So I guess that's what I meant by I can see why RR mechanically wants to vote you but it does look like you're trying so I'd rather lynch Flicker over you out of RR's two preferred lynches today. I think with flips coming and the potential mass claim tomorrow slots like Tails will be easier to figure out.

On a sidenote VLA is NAI right? I just find it odd that Flicker who hasn't really had much presence D2 decided to announce VLA which ends around deadline. I'm getting pretty frustrated with the low input slots tbh, if they are town they're making it a lot harder to PoE. I'm fine lynching any low input slot apart from Toogeloo today so we can move on and get some more clues. I'm still thinking there's scum in the softs/claims somewhere but there's not much I can figure out without a night of info.

I think VLA should be considered NAI. It might not be, but I find the idea of calling peoples real life obligations into question distasteful.

I dont see what tails is doing as trying to gsmesolve. I do see effort, but not to find out who scum is.

-Cerb

[Jingle]

I think he softed. But whatevs at this point.

I'm fairly sure I've caught softs from all but like three people at this point and I haven't even been looking for them, so...

More to the point, we can't lynch Menno because he replaced out. We could lynch LightEthos though, and that is a hammer I would throw if the wagon existed.

Also, tactical use of V/LA (Outside of completely transparent tactical use such as there are literally no posts I can make to further my alignment and I'm going to ignore this game now) either is or should be considered cheating. It's also completely impossible to check. I like to think that the people I'm playing a game with for fun can be trusted to not cheat though, so I'll never consider it AI.