schadd_'s Micro Normal Review, October 2018


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Post Post #3 (isolation #0) » Wed Oct 17, 2018 10:58 am

Post by callforjudgement »

The first thing worth pointing out is that scum investigatives aren't very powerful in Micros. The basic problem is that if they find a power role N1, they can't do anything about it until N2; but D3 is often lylo (and players aren't often particularly inclined to believe power role claims/results at lylo). It's also not clear what use scum are likely to make of their Watcher result; there are, after all, three targeted town power roles, and learning that scum had been neapolitised isn't all that useful as they can both easily claim out of it. So the scum actives basically don't contribute to the balance of the setup (other than the nightkill, obviously).

The Neapolitan's active is about half as useful as that of a Cop's. They have a target pool of 7 (they won't target the known town power role), 4 of which give useful results (but "is innocent" is a less useful result than "is guilty"). The information, though, is worth a full confirmation (knowing the rest of the tracker's role is very minor in comparison to knowing that the tracker is town).

I normally like Bodyguard as a role, but this is something of the weakest I've ever seen it. Its main use would be protecting the Neapolitan, if the Neapolitan claims something comparable in strength to their actual role (but I don't see why the Neapolitan would do that; the obvious thing to do would be to soft- or hard-claim Informed during D1 and not mention the rest of the role). It may well try to protect the confirmed townie, which wouldn't work out at all (due to the Ascetic modifier); the Neapolitan can hardly say "well, player A is confirmed town, but don't try to protect them overnight"! Even if it doesn't, it's very likely that it'll waste its shot on something other than the nightkill. It's certainly possible for the role to help town, and it's unlikely to hurt, but the balance impact is only minimal. (Based on the setup notes, I assume it's intentional that the Bodyguard is useless and is only there as a Neapolitan false-negative.)

The Informed Goon is likely beneficial to scum. The most obvious use of it is to claim an alignment-flipped but otherwise accurate version of the role, for the modWIFOM. (This would likely prompt the Watcher to claim Informed, too; probably a trueclaim as to the actual information, but creative players could screw around with it.) Meanwhile, the Watcher's information strongly hints that the Neapolitan has a modifier (and thus less strongly hints that the Neapolitan is Informed), due to the tortured wording in the role PM (I agree that something like that's necessary to avoid lying to the players, though); that's significantly useful to scum as the Neapolitan is likely to become known as Informed quite early (it's not normally a role that's dangerous to claim as town).

Allowing for all the above, and cancelling out roles which have only minor benefits, we can more or less approximate this setup to a 50% Percentage Cop, Innocent Child, 5 VT versus 2 Goon and some scumsided modWIFOM. Normally after you simplify a Micro, you end up with something that can easily be compared to a (present or former) Newbie setup or Open setup and just pull the statistics. This is fairly far from any established setup, though. (The most likely reason is the awkwardness of a confirmed townie D1 in a Micro; it creates a very large amount of swing, as it helps out town way more if the confirmation is on a player who always looks scummy as town than if it's on a player who always looks townish as town, and that leads to randomness based on the role assignment.) Note that we have to approximate to Percentage Cop, not Odd-Night/Even-Night/1-shot, because timing of role results makes a huge difference in a Micro and we don't have any reason to think that useful results are more likely to happen on N1 or N2.

If it
were
a 1-shot Cop equivalent, I'd put the setup down as balanced; having a cop result on D1 and a probable cop result on N1 is somewhat more useful than having a probable cop result on N1 and a reasonably likely cop result on N2 (with an outside chance of one on N3), and Cop + 6 vs. 2 is somewhat (but not ridiculously) scumsided. However, the fact that the Neapolitan has a fairly high chance of getting no useful additional information N1, and the fact that scum's information is actually quite valuable to them in modWIFOM terms, means that the setup as given is scumsided overall.

Even if this setup were win/lose balanced, though, I'd be rather uneasy about it. The setup's balance is somewhat dominated by random events (Neapolitan targeting N1, who gets the Ascetic). Town's power is pretty much all on a single player, who could singlehandedly ruin the setup if their play is a long way away from established town use of power roles. There's a lot going on in the setup that mostly cancels itself out and/or is just noise, and the modWIFOM levels are very high. The setup is 56% power roles (there was a serious attempt to add "no more than 53% power roles" to the Normal guidelines a while back, but we didn't get around to it because reviewers were considered to be sufficient to keep role madness setups out of the Normal queue; in any case, for much of the NRG, this setup's beyond the acceptable complexity limit); if you count the number of roles rather than the number of players, the number of roles is 89% of the number of players, far too high. This is all the sort of thing I'd expect to see in a Theme, not in a Normal; I think this sort of setup could make for quite a good Theme (and the sort of players who like Micro Themes would probably enjoy it), and that may be a better approach than trying to make it work as a Normal.

If you do want to make it work as a Normal, it needs to be a) simpler and b) more townsided. An obvious start is to replace the Bodyguard with a VT; this makes the setup simpler (can't get much simpler than a VT!) and more townsided (as the Neapolitan is now more likely to get useful results; 5/7 is a big step up from 4/7). I'd also like to propose removing both the Tracker and Watcher shots, producing the following (after tweaking the Information to reflect the new setup and to aid balance):

Informed Neapolitan (
player
is an Ascetic Townie)
Ascetic Townie
5× VT
Informed Goon ("town have access to Neapolitan actions", i.e. less useful information than in your version of the setup, making the modWIFOM a bit less scumsided)
Informed Goon (three players have the Informed modifier)

I'd let you run that if you want to. I'm still not really
happy
with it – it's still too centralised and has more modWIFOM than a Normal should – but it's something I'd consider within bounds for the Micro Normal queue.

I also need to check your rules. I'm not 100% sure your modified Rocks Fall Everyone Dies (i.e. anti-Happily Ever After) rule is Normal, although I have no objections to the idea. More importantly, though, it's ambiguous; you probably want to clarify if that's 3 days + 3 nights (6 phases), or just 3 phases. (The correct number is probably 4 phases, anyway; otherwise you're pretty much daring town to try to go for the alternative win condition in cases where they have a lot of protection or blocking, as scum will only have one try to make a kill.) I assume your "please PM me if you plan to replace out" rule is there for a reason (some previous incident?), but predict that players will likely ignore it anyway (you'll likely still get "
@Mod: replace me out
" in-thread because players rarely ever read the rules). "Nobody will be a cop, a psychologist, a ninja, or a traitor" is not a Normal rule (and is another reason the game would make a better Theme, because if you're looking to hand out more Informed modifiers, that's an obvious thing to put in them…). You'll need to fix the rules before the setup can be run as a Normal.

(I'd also recommend waiting to hear what Performer has to say; it's quite possible I've missed something, and although every primary reviewer post is meant to be self-contained and able to make the setup runnable on its own, that's no reason to just disregard the secondary reviewer entirely.)
scum
· scam · seam · team · term · tern · torn ·
town
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Post Post #6 (isolation #1) » Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:19 am

Post by callforjudgement »

In post 4, implosion wrote:"not sure if i have time to review"

proceeds to write an essay
It's mostly just stream-of-conciousness. If I'd had more time to think about, edit, etc. it, it'd likely have been shorter and clearer.
scum
· scam · seam · team · term · tern · torn ·
town
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Post Post #9 (isolation #2) » Tue Oct 23, 2018 3:24 pm

Post by callforjudgement »

Let's see. The current version of the setup:

Informed Neapolitan (informed about the identity/role/alignment of the Ascetic 1-shot Tracker)
Ascetic 1-shot Tracker
5 VTs
Mafia Goon
Informed 1-shot Watcher (informed about the presence of a Neapolitan)

I'd be willing to let you run this. The Neapolitan is now considerably more powerful than in the original version of the setup, and that puts the balance into the right place. It's also considerably simpler than the original, so I have no complexity concerns any more.

In terms of the utility of a Neapolitan not-VT result: I normally measure these by how easily the scum can claim out of them; is there something convincing they can say to not be lynched? Having a power role that would fit into the setup if alignment-flipped is a clear way to do that. Informed fits in pretty well with 3 Informed roles (one of which knows there's 3 Informed roles and can tell town that); a bit less well with exactly two. With the new version of the setup, the Informed Watcher doesn't really make much sense as town, so they'll likely have to fake-claim something. (Note, though, that scum's knowledge that there is a neapolitan makes them much more likely to fake-claim power roles than in a normal setup. So this setup may well be a test of scum's fake-claiming skills!)
scum
· scam · seam · team · term · tern · torn ·
town
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Post Post #17 (isolation #3) » Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:52 pm

Post by callforjudgement »

Yes, schadd_'s using a list of roles which I approved several posts ago.

One issue with the new review rules is that because I have to approve a setup in every post, there's often no clear "/approve" to point to.
scum
· scam · seam · team · term · tern · torn ·
town
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