how good is vonflare at laser tag [game over]

[Irrelephant11]

VOTE: vonflare

[Irrelephant11]

Requesting that VOTE: chamber spams like 100x as much

[Irrelephant11]

woo let's get in it

Spoiler: first 200 posts

1. Is it possible your game has any of the following: cults, mid-game alignment changes, moderator lies that cannot be reasonably anticipated (for example, Godfather, Tailor, Miller, Ninja, and mechanics like that are generally fine. Telling someone they are a reflexive doctor when they're actually a PGO is not), secret win conditions, un-divulged non-randomness in player role/alignment generation, direct moderator influence during the game? (Yes/No)
   - I would argue the answer is no, but this is a upick where you pick the name of a laser tag suit, and the ones that are scum are predetermined, and some people might argue that that's kind of bastard

Role names are alignment indicative. It is possible people who wanted to be scum picked the scummiest names and vice versa

I suggest mass claim of namepicks

nah, this seems like a waste of time
Unless we want to waste time this is a long D1

VOTE: vonflare

Between your username, your avatar and your image I think I'm gonna like you

Thanks, back at you!

oh yeah sorry for the confusion. the setup is 15 Love. this was mentioned in the post I made to the large theme queue but not in the actual signup thread since, like, I wasn't actually planning on running a game when I made that thread

also, the flavor is the

The Gospel of Toronto, As I Recall It

, a holy text that covers all of Toronto Meet! at the end of Chapter 1, the Discord is made, and there wasn't any discussion of laser tag until the discord got made!

This is hilarious flavor and I love

If you want a real chance of a free chicken dinner, everyone agrees to Lynch who I say at EOD.

Saw this coming

I think we lynch RC.

lol

"more"?
That implies that you're scumreading me to at least some extent: why is that the case?
Oh and I'm openly offering to be lynched tomorrow if I'm wrong because I won't be. I'm confident that I'll get this right.

I was going to ask, but sure, I think enough of us will hold you to that.

It's early in the day so that's subject to change
Scum are going to really not want this to go through because my logic about the setup is accurate and they're going to respect me enough to know that I can find 1 scum in a game like this.
To counter the argument that oh I'm too good as scum to give me control over the lynch: I'm openly telling you to lynch me if I don't get this right D1. Worst case scenario, you take 2 scum.

Let's see.. that would make it 7 town v 3 lover scum? With two lynches to hit any of three targets. Fine.

Ffs we don’t lynch RC day 1. Like. Ever

inb4 entire scumteam openwolfs on RC's behalf
But yeah at this rate this is probably just the case

"more"?
That implies that you're scumreading me to at least some extent: why is that the case?
Oh and I'm openly offering to be lynched tomorrow if I'm wrong because I won't be. I'm confident that I'll get this right.

I have a mild confidence in you
I expect you’ll probably find scum, but we only have one lynch to nail this, so I’m worried you’ll scum in your pool but they won’t be your top lynch

:barf:
what a fun and unique way you've found to both sheep rc and avoid sheeping rc
deja vu, which is weird

Gamma's town btw.
So in invis.
I feel that's fairly obv but I'll point it out for the slower ones.

Do tell, I'm townreading Invis but not Gamma

I've read Gamma wrong once as town.
Trust in me. Unless you sr me and think I'm partners with gamma den fair enough.

Oh. hmmmm

I wrote it way earlier and didn’t feel like fixing it

Then who was that referring to?

Maria
Who else called me useless?

Oh...you took my joke srsly. AWWWW GAMMA BUDDY NO I WAS JUST ROASTING YOU <3 I don't think you're useless! .....Unlike some people in this list
Pedit: Mmmm RC flipped scum but since it's rc and 5 scum d1 I won't be able to lynch that

Yeah it's probs pointless to try to lynch RC regardless of RC's alignment
Are you planning to sheep RC?

that said I'm very strongly considering the possibility that you're scum and that I was generally right on my scumpool and yall are banding together to start discrediting me early in the day phase.

Chamber's reaction is not the reaction of a person who thinks that I'm scum, for the record.

Who was the scumpool?
Also wasn't chamber's reaction just "let's lynch RC"? What would his reaction be if he thought you were scum?

I don't have a quote here but Penguin is town

Having an opaque trajectory is my thing when I'm trying.

Does this trajectory ever become clear orrr?
@chamber real question

That's unhelpful when I don't like your results and have other stuff that I'm wary of.

"opaque trajectory is unhelpful" says the RC. "Makes it hard for me to read you" says the RC.

jk i hate maria's entrance more
VOTE: maria

What did you dislike about her entrance?

"scummy pop in"
[redacted]

Well I’ve asked Invis about his Maria read but he hasn’t answered yet. There’s nothing else for me to do right now and the only reason I’m arguing about your read on me is because you directly engaged me.

Disagree, there's lots more to talk about. You have ignored a lot of the game and stuck around when RC pushed you. It really doesn't seem like you're sorting

Is everyone townreading me yet can I just pick a lynch and we do it that'd be great

Bold, slight townlean here

The game just started. I also don’t know where you get that activity tell considering my activity has never been AI. I’ve been extremely active as scum and hard lurked as Town.

Why are you arguing with me instead of doing other stuff?
When I called you scum in very early fallout you continued to do other stuff and then I was like lol you're right and locktowned you.

This game your primary focus has been arguing with my scumread on you which I would expect you to expect to go away if you did towny stuff.

What was the context in that other game? You've definitely grabbed the most attention, I think to the determent of the game so far. Expecting interactions to not center around you at this point seems quite off on its face.

Fair point

Vote maru

Good vote

Chamber glad you're back I addressed some shit to you please ISO me and answer ty

I read it at the time.

Interesting... I'm kinda townreading both sides of this interaction? "Answer my questions" comes from town that cares and "I don't want to" seems a little too bold for scum but maybe I should only townread confidence if that's not in their scum meta

Okay so if we hit scum today do we win then? All the lovers die?

Okay so if we hit scum today do we win then? All the lovers die?

there are 2 couples
one 3 people one 2 people

No that's after D1

It says D1 is a 5-lover set so if we hit scum today we *should* win the game automatically

Nice 1/3 raw chance of autowin D1 I like it

let's analyze these 3 posts because these are fmpov literally scumfirming

in the first post we see that majiffy is asking a question about how the setup works
in the second post we see that majiffy is clarifying the specific about how the setup works and then says *should* on something that's literally confirmed setup details
then in post 3 he makes another post announcing something that's... straight up setup details

why scumjiffy is doing this is because he is scum who knew the setup immediately but thought it would be a brilliant idea to manufacture a slip by pretending he didn't know the setup

that's why his process of 'discovering' the setup is jank af, he knew exactly what it was but phrased it as a question and split it over three posts to make a show of not knowing and progressing to figuring out the setup. town him is plenty experience and doesn't need to question literally basic functionings of how mafia works. scum him does to make a show of not knowing aforementioned setup

game set and match boys, let's end this so that maru doesn't have to play with me

This seems overblown. If this is a scumfirm progression then like a third of the playerlist is scum for "pretending to not know the setup". Including I think you??

Only at the bottom of page 5 so far. Catching up.

I have town, so far:
RC
PP
Gamma
Jiffy
Maru

I don't see the Gamma or Maru townreads here?? I don't think I have a strong read on Jiffy at this point but. This list seems fake af.

Let's see..

PenguinPower, chamber
Majiffy, MariaR
{everyone else}
Maruchan
Gamma, Alchemist, Chickadee

more in a bit

[Irrelephant11]

-Tone, especially exiting RVS (silly in a way scum is usually too nervous to be in my experience)
-If RC is town, you're town for being early to refuse to lynch him. If RC is scum, I won't know until tomorrow, and you still might be town for refusing to lynch him. Meh this is weak but it affected my read so there it is
-96 (about Gamma) and 130 (about Alchemist) were my exact same reactions
-You asking why you're town

pedit: yeah I kno better than to try to read RC. I'll read RC by voting who he says to vote and lynching him if it's green
VOTE: alchemist

[Irrelephant11]

but

how did you oops within the same post

[Irrelephant11]

Spoiler: posts 200-300

(like chickadee and chamber both look... really awful right now but for reasons that could plausibly come from town. I'd put them in scum if I have to right now but I wouldn't bet my life on it being right.)

Your bets are hedged, noted.

You've made your entire case for 3? 4? scum now based on associatives on unflipped players starting with a flimsy scumread on a player I don't think you're even scumreading anymore

So yeah my faith in your ability to play this game at any competent level is pretttttty low

tbf I'm pretty sure RC will readily admit that his scumcasing a player doesn't mean he always thinks they're scum
I could be wrong, but
The only ways I've learned to measure RC's alignment are BoPing and also figuring out whether or not he's trying to pull off a scum agenda (watch the agenda, what does he really want to happen), regardless of how towny or scummy he looks in the process.
also one other scumtell that I will never explain, sorry. Hasn't happened yet though fwiw

Can we not policy lynch maruchan for going out of their way to make enemies tyia

@RC what do you mean "going out of their way to make enemies"? He's just... being weird and suggesting nai setup things are ai

Why not? Because you're his buddy?

Sure


But really, I don't get scum jiffy vibes here. I'll admit I haven't played with jiffy that much, but I feel pretty confident that this is vastly different from the scum game I've played with him. I know thats not much, but with how different it is, I'm not scum reading him at this point.

I don't really think you'd fight me on this as town and I hope I'm wrong.

Are you calling me scum? Like, I've had a fairly exhausting day, so maybe I'm wrong, but you think I'm scum because I'm fighting the jiffy angle? Even if Jiffy is scum, there are 4 other people you could lynch today to win.

Also, why hasn't jiffy considered that, like, I might be scum trying to powerwagon him?

But that's kinda LHF

I get where you're going, but that is a stupid argument and you know it.

this is a little more passion than I've seen from scum!chickadee in the past... mayyybe she's town with poor reads?

anyway

VOTE: Chickadee

that townread that you declared on jiffy was absolutely spectacularly awful.
i'm not sure if it's more likely to be a TMI read or a scumdefense of a scumbuddy, but regardless of which it is I think that you're scum my girl

Interesting. I don't know that the jiffy read is my problem with chick, and experience says you'll be flip-flopping on chickadee in t minus five minutes, so this feels a little forced. Scum!RC's goal is to make a big mess and divide town lots before getting lynched as a lover with obvscum D2. Watching for this agenda but also since I agree chick is scummy I'll sit on my hands for now and see where this goes

still at page 5 but i want to pull my hair out because of this so figured I'd share:
3 people haven't even posted yet.
RC has more posts than ANY two other players combined, more than the 3rd, 4th, and 5th players combined, and more posts than the BOTTOM TEN PLAYERS combined.
i'm pullin muh hairz out over here

RadiantCowbells 67
Majiffy 41
Gamma Emerald 22
Invisibility 19
PenguinPower 17
chamber 17
Maruchan 12
MariaR 11

xyzzy 11

Alchemist21 8
Chickadee 7
vonflare 6
Irrelephant11 2

???
what is your point here? That RC talks a lot? I don't think that's AI for him. Seriously what are you trying to accomplish in this thread

still at page 5 but i want to pull my hair out because of this so figured I'd share:
3 people haven't even posted yet.
RC has more posts than ANY two other players combined, more than the 3rd, 4th, and 5th players combined, and more posts than the BOTTOM TEN PLAYERS combined.
i'm pullin muh hairz out over here

RadiantCowbells 67
Majiffy 41
Gamma Emerald 22
Invisibility 19
PenguinPower 17
chamber 17
Maruchan 12
MariaR 11

xyzzy 11

Alchemist21 8
Chickadee 7
vonflare 6
Irrelephant11 2

Again, why is math of how many posts RC has relevant at all?

right

good read dunn

i also think that gamma might be scum

'but you just said gamma was town'

no I just wanted to see if he'd vote jiffy if I buddied him

So why did my read make you tip your hand early?

V interesting question I want an answer to
Townreading Dunnstral a lot for this insightfulness

What are your thoughts on Chickadee's "meta townread" of jiffy?

Seems pretty bad. Your case on him seems pretty junk though? I really think its just maru and you not seeing that is bothering me.

Define "bothering me"
Depending on your answer, same.

Where does it actually SAY the setup?

Nvm

I see you're as bad at reading Mod OP's, Mod Posts concerning a game you are in, and Sample Role PMs as you are about reading the signatures of people you anti-nom titles for based off of never having ever interacted with them ever.

But hey guess what fucker: I’m practically conftown.

No one is confirmed town

Also please stop with the personal attacks.

I’ll stop with the attacks but lol k how do I go unaware like that if I’m scum? I’d have the info in my fucking role PM.

And RC if I’m scum explain this.

Seems like most players here didn't know the setup? I knew because I saw the setup in the large theme thread and was hype about playing it but didn't sign ups start somewhere else entirely? I don't think this is that AI
Trying to call yourself conftown is v scummy here for what is the easiest of fake slips

wtf is 251

Actually you know what I think
I think it could be jiffy and RC and they just did a lame bus maneuver
VOTE: Majiffy

Why is Majiffy your vote in the situation where RC fake bussed Majiffy

umm
same thing that i said jiffy did altho u might have actually done it
fake a townslip by pretending to not know the setup
like saying YO I DONT KNOW THE FUCKING SETUP doesn't mean you're town
i had no idea what the setup is and i neither said anything about it before knowing nor after because I had originally thought it was a theme
the idea that i should townread you for saying 'yo i dont know the setup in this game' amuses me

Bad != scum.

Ok sorry chamber but you're just scum at this point.

You seem to have more reasons to scumread people you're not voting than people you're voting. I guess this might not be that AI since you clearly use your votes for more than just lynching but I'm just

I didn’t even say that actually
I asked where the setup info was
I figured out the setup from everyone else who did know

wow is your ISO just a fake townslip and then the argument that you had a real townslip? Like if I check is that most of what's there?
I checked and there's also some personal arguing with MariaR (which you end and 180 on quickly) and Maruchan, which is how you end up "conftown"ing yourself.
Can Gamma be the lynch please

changes nothing.

And that’s why you’re scum

But you're still voting majiffy I really don't get your thought process here

also like I've got good feelings that chickadee is the final wagon I push through.

orly? watching this

[Irrelephant11]

No one specific thing Invis has said has made it into these long posts but he's townish too. Maybe I'll re-evaluate when I come back later looking for associations
Reads mostly same as before but move chickadee up one, put dunnstral up with penguin, and move Gamma even lower

[Irrelephant11]

this game is moving fast I remember now why I've stuck with micros and minis

[Irrelephant11]

I can always catch up later I want to play in real time
RC why is majiffy scum?

Majiffy why haven't you voted yet this game?

[Irrelephant11]

I can always catch up later I want to play in real time
RC why is majiffy scum?

Majiffy why haven't you voted yet this game?

Haven't settled on a good scumread yet. Been town hunting to narrow the field

Who ya got so far

[Irrelephant11]

@Maruchan

what’s to indicate which [flavor names] are scum?

willing to bet this is SvS, regardless of RC's lynchbait read on both slots
I've done this "hey, hey you, answer me, hey you! yeah you answer me!"/"..." scum theater, it's super easy bussing

Like maybe it's the two of them with alch and whoever else, and alch is scummy enough to sheep onto rn but I'm unclear what about these slots is towny enough to you (@RC) to rule them out and say with such confidence that it's alchemist

I guess it doesn't matter since if it's because you're scum I'll just find out post flip
But if you felt like educating lil ol me about it that would be a ball

[Irrelephant11]

[Irrelephant11]

I mean you've eaten the game I signed up for and replaced it with one only you get to play
which, whatever, I'm playing along
Meanwhile the game I'm playing is "Can I figure out pre-flip if RC is scum"

If you wouldn't mind either towncasing maru/gamma or scumcasing alchemist that would be great

[Irrelephant11]

Yeah that's actually really fair.

[Irrelephant11]

Produce for the weekend
I’ll be back soon enough

[Irrelephant11]

Catching up here soon. Anyone want to tell me what I missed/talk about it?

pedit: hi titus are you scum

[Irrelephant11]

Catching up here soon. Anyone want to tell me what I missed/talk about it?

pedit: hi titus are you scum

chamber didn't answer questions, people are voting majiffy.

hmm.
should I vote majiffy?

[Irrelephant11]

Spoiler: catchup, roughly 500-725

good read dunn

i also think that gamma might be scum

'but you just said gamma was town'

no I just wanted to see if he'd vote jiffy if I buddied him

Gamma is obv as fuck town. I hope you know I'm only giving you a pass for day 1 cause I'm not aiming for scum. (Ironicly what I'm aiming for would prob -you being the best lynch but ik I can't get that so 2nd best) But once D2 comes around you're dying. I know you hate flipping scum so I'll make it quick for you friend and don't feel bad about ateing me like you're gonna I don't mind.

I caught your speech. But what if I told you I'm actually not bad town? I'm only bad town from your perspective. I just don't see a reason at the moment to scum read Jiffy, and thus would not like to lynch there.

Pedit: ok, you can vote me. That's fine. You're wrong, but you're entitled to your opinion. I still love you rc

I don't townread your posting Chick but I do enjoy it. I thought you should know that

still at page 5 but i want to pull my hair out because of this so figured I'd share:
3 people haven't even posted yet.
RC has more posts than ANY two other players combined, more than the 3rd, 4th, and 5th players combined, and more posts than the BOTTOM TEN PLAYERS combined.
i'm pullin muh hairz out over here

RadiantCowbells 67
Majiffy 41
Gamma Emerald 22
Invisibility 19
PenguinPower 17
chamber 17
Maruchan 12
MariaR 11

xyzzy 11

Alchemist21 8
Chickadee 7
vonflare 6
Irrelephant11 2

Again, why is math of how many posts RC has relevant at all?

It's Maru going "how can I bus more without voting RC"

wtf is 251

Actually you know what I think
I think it could be jiffy and RC and they just did a lame bus maneuver
VOTE: Majiffy

I might join you on this I'll think about it after my catch up. (fking 14 new pages in my sleep kill me now)

changes nothing.

And that’s why you’re scum

Is this the game where we mason it up Gamma? Cause I'm ready

Work with me a bit on maru RC. Why are you sure this is a bait wagon?

This'll be interesting.

-I still don't see town!Gamma
-Maria is treating RC the same way she says Maru is here?? Scumreading RC without a vote

If I haven't @ed anyone and you're town congratulations you're doing your best to be scum aligned and if you want to change that then stop playing for scum.

If Alchemist was town he would be getting absolutely clusterfucked right now with how scummy he has been. He's not, I'm pulling hairs and fighting vote for vote to get people over there. scum can't bus in this setup. figure it out.

This feels true

Why am I town?

Cause you have top tier taste in gifs of course!
Also

@Irrelephant

To answer your question sheeping RC so he can get a town lynched and then try and back his way out of it has crossed my mind but that's prob a path scum me would take too and that'd be a bit of a pain to explain. I might do it. I want to lynch who I think gives me the best info+could flip scum but Info>Scum atm.

VOTE: Invisibility

I think your vote on me is likeliest to be scum. It’s a lazy sheep vote.

Do I townread Alchemist voting the most towny player besides gamma? mmmm somewhat.

@Penguin where are your reads at right now?

Fairly non-existent atm.

I still need to read the myriad of posts from when I was asleep.

Da fk you mean you got no read PP? More gifs more reads!

Pls don't sheep the VI

OOF

Majoffy do you have any reads?

I don't know but him asking this a 2nd time made me go "ew" mostly because it just feels like trying to be busy.

Alch is obvscum

Majiffy is scum buddy as I originally postulated w/ Deedles just as town being dumb, Chamber as buddy, MariaR possibly as further buddy

Strongly tempted to join the alch wagon just to see everyones reactions if it flips town.

--> "I would sheep RC to BoP him but that would look scummy"
--> "Maybe I'll sheep RC onto town"
Maria you are all over the place
Unsure if such unwarranted confidence in your own reads that are based on poor logic is towny or scummy

Maru Jiffy alch votes are all fine votes atm.

Alchemist votes are fine but you refuse to join?

Talk to me about other people I can give you a better answer than Invis who is legit just a "uhhh he's kinda obv" read

What do you think of Chickadee and Jiffy?

Chickadee had a few towny moments in the game I found the "I'm exhausted so tell me if I'm wrong" post quite towny. I think her whole reason for defending Jiffy is NAI and people are blowing it way out of the water. If I want Chickadee solved I'd lynch Jiffy first. (Speaking of)
Jiffy is just...here he doesn't really have many towny parts to him just a lot of posting that feels meh to me I can see him being scum easily and if I had my choice of info and scum lynch I'd kill Jiffy
VOTE: Jiffy
Pedit: Answer my question rc thanks.

No, bad
Majiffy is town!

Talk to me about other people I can give you a better answer than Invis who is legit just a "uhhh he's kinda obv" read

What do you think of Chickadee and Jiffy?

Chickadee had a few towny moments in the game I found the "I'm exhausted so tell me if I'm wrong" post quite towny. I think her whole reason for defending Jiffy is NAI and people are blowing it way out of the water. If I want Chickadee solved I'd lynch Jiffy first. (Speaking of)
Jiffy is just...here he doesn't really have many towny parts to him just a lot of posting that feels meh to me I can see him being scum easily and if I had my choice of info and scum lynch I'd kill Jiffy
VOTE: Jiffy
Pedit: Answer my question rc thanks.

I still have Jiffy as null. Just seemed a bit early to me for anyone to have claimed a meta read on him when Chickadee did it. Actually, poking Jiffy more might give some meaningful reactions.

VOTE: Jiffy

Oh maria might be town.

Sigh.

Maria/RC scum theater this whole time? Honestly wouldn't be surprised

(not extending to threatening to policy lynch her, I said that so that she'd react in a way that I could say that this was pretty conclusive proof she's scum because she would have flipped her shit as town and she flipped her shit, so.)

Ok so that’s why your read changed
Honestly I was kinda on board the Maria read as I got the feeling she gave me town status too easily

Regardless of whether RC/Maria is tvt or svs this is such a scummy post

You're right that if I ml someone I just move on with my day whoops. (good pizza btw)
Gamma you're town cause I say so friend. I won't out me meta on you. If you wanna sr me for tring you by all means go for it

I’m not asking for meta I’m asking what in this game makes you TR me

You're overly sensitive

I don't get why this is towny

Chickadee has warm comfortable pockets and if she's scum I'm probably screwed

Doesn’t that concern you a bit?

Nah even if she's scum she's gonna be tethered to at least one other person all game

Weird that you assume we won't end the game today?
And that you don't consider Chikadee for the game ending ltnch if these are your actual reads

this is again a great post A+ for insightfulness

Could use a few more votes on me from the idiots soft supporting my wagon but not ponying up a vote to back it though. Let's get it on the record, folks

Alch is probably town at this point. Reaction to being a growing, lead wagon with no opposition is not a scum reaction

Mmm honestly I feel like Alchemist is more likely scum regardless of his reaction just because the wagon has fallen apart (I haven't gotten there yet in my catch up but I did see the most recent vc before catching up)

Alch is a shit lynch unless Alch has a fantastic scum game

Majiffy doesn't say this so confidently as scum because it's too easy to get caught out D2 even if it works in the short term
Still don't see what makes Alchemist so towny to you though

half way there!!!!!!

Ok, this post is really bad. Sorry for not seeing it before alch.

see what? This is just invis being invis imo

BTW just a reminder to lay off the associatives

I don't see how this game can be won without associative reading though
Scummy suggestion

Since RC's been enjoying some from the hip guesses, I'm going to be a degenerate too.

Vonflare, Invisibility, RC, Irrelephant, Maruchan

what, as the scum team? Other than Maru you're way off base (though I admit I haven't tried to sort RC yet)

"I think everyone who is voting for my buddy is scum and so is our designated mislynch"

Is that actually that whole wagon? Magical. You are each on their for other reasons.

I'm sure we are, chamber.

Btw alch whats bad with me being ignored while a lot of other people are being ignored too?

good question

Imagine for a moment, a world where I'm town. No one is strongly pushing for a counter wagon. No one is strongly opposing the alch wagon. No one has appealed to some voters to get them to move (the only instance i can think of this is me towards gamma). I know this is the world we are in. I just can't imagine alch being scum in such a world. Everyone who reads alch as scum must also read me as scum. And I appeal to any of you who may have a town read on me to reconsider your current vote placement.

mm you seem to be an intentionally difficult player to sort who do you think you're appealing to here

It looking that way*

Intentional TWTBAW play, cool

lol that's you

I’ve been talking about the fact that I have no counterwagon since before that post. Keep bullshitting.

frick i guess im caught scum srry for letting you down team better luck next time

there has been a crap ton of opposition just the lack of a counterwagon doesnt mean that scum are just letting this slide through

is that your only point?

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btw

I've made this post as town before
if I'm wrong on Invis being town I'll be v sad

Can all the people on Alchemist21, most-all of whom I think are town, join me on Jiffy instead?

l o l
So RC was the scum on Alchemist's wagon the whole time??

VOTE: Gamma

Anyone that thinks Alch and myself are both town vote Gamma with me. If you think one of Alch or myself is scum, vote the appropriate wagon.

I don't know what to think anymore

[Irrelephant11]

So why is chamber town? @anyone townreading him

alchemist definitely might still be scum, RC leaving the wagon at L-1 was hilarious but confusing and upsetting
dunnstral is town or I don't mafia right
So's invis
Majiffy probably? too

Gamma is still the scum who scummed in scumville

[Irrelephant11]

Because you've openly stated you don't want to be easily understood, you defended alchemist and scumread invisbility with basically no reasoning, you're voting majiffy... These are just off the top of my head

pedit: oh there's another reason

[Irrelephant11]

Like two pages ago you asked Pure Sadness "You don't have anything to add to that?" or something when he summarized what I missed
Instead of just telling me what else I missed

[Irrelephant11]

g2g
Vote stays where it is. If chamber is town I doubt this will become a full mislynch by tomorrow anyway
If he's scum it definitely won't go through that fast, so

[Irrelephant11]

Having to respond on mobile and lack the time to pare down the quote wall by Irrel so copy/pasted segments it is

Regardless of whether RC/Maria is tvt or svs this is such a scummy post

Why am I scum for expressing paranoia? MariaR is good at reading me but it felt like I’d not done enough for her to get a read on me. Her explanation was sufficient FYI.

I don't see how this game can be won without associative reading though
Scummy suggestion

Well it can be won by not using associatives I am fairly certain, but I’m dead sure associations can make it much harder to win if we mislynch today. Someone made a post detailing this in the first few pages iirc.

lol that's you

In order for me to be intentionally TWTBAWing I’d have to be acting flagrantly scummy, which I most certain am not. This feels notoriously like a “no u” post which means you’ve outed yourself as a shitty debater.

- Because the paranoia was fake and went away the moment RC said he stopped scumreading Maria
- It's not like scum can remove their D1 associations. Caught scum will remain caught in D2 when I look back and reread
- Honestly I haven't townread like anything you've said and I feel like you're backing it up with this self-righteous tone as if it's insane I'm scumreading you - for which I'm scumreading you

Asking why someone is town is asking for town tells.
Asking why someone is not town is asking for scum tells.
Are you gaslighting me or illiterate?

True, but it comes off as more of a challenge. "Try and prove I'm not town" implies you think we should be town reading you.

...alright this argument is boring me now. I mean go ahead and argue so I can sort you both but for now I'll just accept chamber is hard to read (especially since I don't think I'm townreading chickadee)

I'm just not interested in a D1 Chickadee wagon she's got 4 teammates why don't you help me figure them out RC

I think Gamma is one.

Worst post in the game.

Go on

Gamma is still the scum who scummed in scumville

Join me on Gamma then

Unless someone wants to Argue Alch with Jiffy, I think I will pass for now on major wagons.

Glad to see you still remember me ;D

Jiffy wagon felt town driven to me with how it was slowly building compared to alch wagon that happened a lot more easier.

Alch wagon built over like 5 days, mine peaked in a day

What the fuck are you smoking and can you please share

K VOTE: Gamma
Also great point about alch/majiffy wagons, regardless of alchemist's role (given the fact the wagon was RC-led and that makes it more confusing for me), majiffy's clearly town based on wagon movement

[Irrelephant11]

@dunn
@invis
@penguin

join us on Gamma

[Irrelephant11]

@Mod when you posted the vc I think I should have been on chamber
@chamber then why are you not voting majiffy

[Irrelephant11]

oops I meant

@Mod

[Irrelephant11]

@Mod when you posted the vc I think I should have been on chamber
@chamber then why are you not voting majiffy

oops I meant

@Mod

Sorry I apparently never did post a vote on chamber, ignore me

[Irrelephant11]

Not this second, he's about null right now. I thought I had already voted him to try to get more sortable content but unless him and chickadee cross voting and arguing is svs (which it might be I guess) I think he comes out of that argument looking townier than chick

[Irrelephant11]

Where does it actually SAY the setup?

Nvm

I see you're as bad at reading Mod OP's, Mod Posts concerning a game you are in, and Sample Role PMs as you are about reading the signatures of people you anti-nom titles for based off of never having ever interacted with them ever.

But hey guess what fucker: I’m practically conftown.

No one is confirmed town

Also please stop with the personal attacks.

I’ll stop with the attacks but lol k how do I go unaware like that if I’m scum? I’d have the info in my fucking role PM.

And RC if I’m scum explain this.

Tries to call himself conftown for "not knowing the setup"

@Maruchan

what’s to indicate which [flavor names] are scum?

Badgers Maruchan but never votes him or tries to get others to see his way about the slot; reads svs or maybe just trying to look towny by chasing lynchbait (maru is harder to read because v/la)

Yeah at 22 pages in less than 24 hours and I have a 16 hour drive coming up Sunday morning I cdnt denote the time to this genre

I already V/LA'd in my first post but apparently that isn't enough for some of y'all to realize I would be largely not here this weekend so

@xyzzy this started about a week earlier than I could handle so unless you're OK with me just not posting for the first week and ignoring all pages of content that happen on said week I'm gonna have to replace out.

I can't play this from mobile and I can't sit in my hotel room all day every day for the next 3 days

Gfdi I hope you’re scum

more of that

BTW just a reminder to lay off the associatives

Tries to prevent associative reading

I won’t deny that is an OMGUS vote
I will state that came from out of the blue and with several people having gone after me before

it feels like I’m the dedicated mislynch.

bolded part

The only way my vote goes on Chick is if you can tie her being scum to my being chosen as the dedicated ML.

this whole post

I know the newer players focus way more on town telling and building functional groups or w/e. That's not me. Everyone is scum to differing degrees. That doesn't mean I can't work with people, but the people reaching out to me are not the people I have any desire to work with. I'm waiting on Titus's catchup and for other people to post more.

Mafia is a team game. Why take such an individualistic approach?

Has shown multiple times an uncooperative spirit and then says this to chamber (just look at the number of arguments he's made personal in his ISO)

Having to respond on mobile and lack the time to pare down the quote wall by Irrel so copy/pasted segments it is

Regardless of whether RC/Maria is tvt or svs this is such a scummy post

Why am I scum for expressing paranoia? MariaR is good at reading me but it felt like I’d not done enough for her to get a read on me. Her explanation was sufficient FYI.

I don't see how this game can be won without associative reading though
Scummy suggestion

Well it can be won by not using associatives I am fairly certain, but I’m dead sure associations can make it much harder to win if we mislynch today. Someone made a post detailing this in the first few pages iirc.

lol that's you

In order for me to be intentionally TWTBAWing I’d have to be acting flagrantly scummy, which I most certain am not. This feels notoriously like a “no u” post which means you’ve outed yourself as a shitty debater.

Says I'm " outed as a shitty debater" because I'm obvtown and he wants to discredit me (obviously a stronger point fmpov but)

[Irrelephant11]

why not

[Irrelephant11]

do you still want alch? I'd still do alch but I have a hard time seeing the wagon re-form at this rate
I townread dunnstral/invis/penguin/majiffy enough to risk kingmaking any of you

[Irrelephant11]

but please do explain why gamma is town I don't see it

[Irrelephant11]

lol

If I were scum picking three townies to get on a mislynch why would I choose those three?
I had a feeling Invi might say no
Penguin has only expressed doubt about me me
Dunnstral is way too strong a player to sheep me thoughtlessly
Come to think of it why would I only appeal to three players? Does this idea also assume the wagon I'm going for will be three townies and myself and my four scum buddies all on the mislynch wagon? This makes no sense as a scum play

The simple answer is I'm appealing to my three strongest townreads to vote my strongest scumread.

Re: the post above
-It's my current interpretation and nothing you've said or shown me has given me reason to doubt it
-I don't know what you're saying here, it doesn't seem like it has to do with the point I made about associations? I think I really just don't understand you here.
-I'm not sure what you're saying here, either... That you'd accept a scumread if it were "better" somehow?

pedit: chamber gimme a sec

[Irrelephant11]

majiffy's clearly town based on wagon movement

no.

@Mod when you posted the vc I think I should have been on chamber
@chamber then why are you not voting majiffy

@chamber then why are you not voting majiffy

It's possible to think someone isn't confirmed town, and also not think they are the best lynch choice. In fact that currently describes everyone that isn't myself and isn't chickadee. What the hell was this question?

I read this first post here as "No, majiffy is not town" --> a confident scumread
Not voting majiffy (a viable wagon) from there didn't make sense to me
I get it now

[Irrelephant11]

Oh my fucking god is Irrel scumreading me for calling myself the dedicated mislynch
I’ve done that same thing as town before
And guess what Einstein? Scum have pushed me for it before. Nice job on making it easy to catch you.

Please link me to it

Also how have I been uncooperative and how the fuck does Irrel think he’s obvtown, and if he thinks he’s obvtown why’s he scumreading me for thinking I might be evidently town?

obvtown =/= conftown

I think I'm pretty obviously town based on how hard it would be for me to feel as comfortable as I do if I were scum :shrug:
I don't think you're anywhere near conf!town, and you claiming that you are because you didn't know the setup info reads scummy and fake

[Irrelephant11]

You're right that if I ml someone I just move on with my day whoops. (good pizza btw)
Gamma you're town cause I say so friend. I won't out me meta on you. If you wanna sr me for tring you by all means go for it

I’m not asking for meta I’m asking what in this game makes you TR me

You're overly sensitive

Also could you E-send me some pizza cos I have sandwiches practically every day and it can get boring
PEdit: ok

This is when I changed my mind about Maria trying to pocket me

mm okay I missed this context here when iso-ing you
I still think both you and Maria are townreading each other too easily on the whole
But this point is now more associative for Maria than singularly scumtelling for you so I'll drop it for now

[Irrelephant11]

VOTE: Chickadee

[Irrelephant11]

ummm a lot
it's been pretty chaotic

some of the things include:
-RC tried to get kingmade and lynch alchemist but at L-1 switched wagons and then replaced out (Titus)
-Majiffy also has tried to play king and it has been much less successful, instead earning themselves votes
-Chamber has been (intentionally?) hard to read
-Gamma tried to call himself conftown for "slipping" that he didn't know the setup
-maru has been scummy but RC was confident the slot was lynchbait
-chickadee has played scummy too and RC was confident before replacing out that that should have been the lynch, not alch
-Basically no wagon except the alchemist/majiffy ones have gotten very high
-invis and vonflare have had very similar spamposty but more-towny-than-not games, helping wagon players and being v interactive
-dunnstral and penguin have shown enough insightfulness and genuine sorting ability that I think they're both town
-MariaR is a slot in this game. She hard townread Gamma early which I still don't fully understand (it's mostly for secret meta reasons, apparently) and argued with RC a lot. I don't remember what else she did lately
-idk who else is in the game rn

idk I'm probably missing lots of stuff but that's most of what I found interesting

[Irrelephant11]

Ah, dammit.

VOTE: Chickadee

Chickalynch is dumbb with 2bs cuz it's that bad

idk if you two townread each other yet but please get on the same page
thanks

[Irrelephant11]

haha sorry if that came across personal
I just remember your votes and play v similarly
It's a compliment to you both if that helps

[Irrelephant11]

I am not confident RC slot is town. what made you think I was?
I've played two games with Gamma, and I think he's got a lot more emotion than usual (something Maria is townreading him for) - I think it shows scum nervousness/bluster

[Irrelephant11]

Mm I guess I worded it wrong. "Nervous" wouldn't really describe his play per se
I think the fact that he is more emotional this game than others I've played with him shows he has more *feelings* and more readily *feels attacked*
For me, playing as town is less emotional because my death has lower stakes
Playing as scum (and sometimes pr) makes me more readily get angry/nervous/skittish/upset etc because of the natural feeling of guilt/fear that comes with being assigned the role of liar, and the survivalism I have to embody well to win

pedit: I think RC said a lot, so I'm including a lot of what he said in my summary
I'm sheeping Penguin onto Chickadee because I townread Penguin ~same I townread Majiffy and I also scumread Chick ~same as I scumread Gamma (given the conversation he and I had that did diffuse part of my scumread on him)

[Irrelephant11]

I've only played with town!Gamma and don't remember him getting this uppity but maybe my memory is poor

[Irrelephant11]

Regardless I don't think he's scumhunting much for how long his ISO is and I still think it's scummy to call oneself conftown for a "townslip" (if someone else calls him that, maybe, but this shows he's too self-aware of the "slip") and to call oneself the designated mislynch (something he references his town meta for, but again he is too self-aware about that meta to really use it as proof of townyness, it's nai at best and scummy at worst. I'm leaning the latter)

I would still join a Gamma wagon but I'm interested in this chickadee wagon for now, especially given it was RC's last words and RC's slot is hard to sort

pedit: I'll look into Gamma's meta at some point before EOD then

[Irrelephant11]

Yes, I townread Majiffy for having the confidence to put himself forward as the one to make the choice after RC had already done so. Given RC dropped his own wagon at L-1, I feel more confident in Majiffy being the townie genuinely wanting to build an all-town wagon and less confident RC was that townie (regardless of alchemist's alignment)

[Irrelephant11]

My mistake. The point mostly still stands

[Irrelephant11]

@maria what's your Titus read rn?
@alisae why do you scumread majiffy?

[Irrelephant11]

Yes, I townread Majiffy for having the confidence to put himself forward as the one to make the choice after RC had already done so. Given RC dropped his own wagon at L-1, I feel more confident in Majiffy being the townie genuinely wanting to build an all-town wagon and less confident RC was that townie (regardless of alchemist's alignment)

make what choice?
i understand this (well, partially) if you think Alch is scum, but if he's town, i'd say it says a lot about RC's alignment.

If Alch is scum, scum!RC had to abandon the wagon eventually
If Alch is town, scum!RC asked to be BoP'd, so he had to change gears to sheeping someone else eventually
Town!RC would towncase Alchemist if he really thought it was the wrong wagon - but also what do I know I've been proven to be bad at reading RC

The "choice" being today's lynch

Usually when someone asks that they want to know what your reads are and they don't want just a yes. Might just be me tho

Um...you know me. I don't do reads.

can you explain them in picture form

Not really.

or video form

Definitely not.

btw ur getting a grade on this

Oh...well, why didn't you say so. You may have my rainbow reads.

{nil}

{Titus, Alisae}

{Invisibility, chamber}

{Chara, vonflare, Majiffy, Dunnstral, Alchemist21, MariaR}

{Gamma Emerald}

{Irrelephant11}

{Maruchan}

{Chickadee}

Beautiful!
But also wtf
-Why is chamber so high?
-Do you think the four scumreads are scum together? because I will gladly vote anyone other than me that you have below null
-Why so many nulls?

I feel like my posts aren't easy to grok.

Correct

lol
majiffy votes are bad

[Irrelephant11]

*why is chamber a townread
I guess is what I mean

[Irrelephant11]

I like his vote on Chick and have no reason to scumread him right now. I wouldn't say he's high on my list, but apparently you think he should be in the scum section?

I just don't actually understand anyone who has him higher than null. I think his slot is confusing and potentially intentionally so. He's said he's not much of a team player, etc...
If anything he is my definition of null this game


On another note I'm liking the replacements, they mostly feel towny, though I already forget which ones tie back to which original slots, hmm

[Irrelephant11]

mod note: this post contained content intended for another game. it has been removed.

[Irrelephant11]

mod note: this post contained content intended for another game. it has been removed.

whoops wrong game!
Sorry!

@Mod any way this can be spoilered or removed?

[Irrelephant11]

okay chara was horrordude who never played
he can be town

alisae was pure sadness who was v lurky
closer to null

[Irrelephant11]

gosh this is a lot of players

I kind of feel like either gamma or alch is probably scum?
Wagons on either have been hard to come by
then again chickadee has been getting a lot of townreads I don't think she deserves since she started getting votes
@Maria, @chara, @alchemist, @alisae, @dunnstral, @maruchan

If you had to pick a wagon bigger than the one you're on to join, which would you pick
please do so now, or convince someone on a smaller wagon than yours to join you on your lil wagon

[Irrelephant11]

@ alch inside jokes was most of what I got out of it, though chara continued to be towny and alisae continue to be nully
chamber might actually be town, but I'm still struggling to tell

[Irrelephant11]

It mostly comes from sheeping townreads, I still don't feel like I can read you
I might meta you when I meta Gamma Emerald later

[Irrelephant11]

I don't remember, honestly
Why? am I wrong?
@chara

[Irrelephant11]

I'm having a really hard time nailing anything in this game down
It's a little disheartening

[Irrelephant11]

I don't remember, honestly
Why? am I wrong?
@chara

you said i was town, and then that i continued to be so. the fact that you can't explain why baffles me, it just happened.

The main thing was how intent you seemed and still seem intent to drive discussion and sort players, something not many replacements try to do; lots of good questions, etc.
if there was a single post that made me feel that way I don't recall which one
But I think you've got one of the towniest ISOs in this game and you've been here for like less than half the time so far so I don't feel bad sorting you quickly into a townpile

[Irrelephant11]

@mod: v/la until Monday.

@NM any chance we can get you to express reads or at least a vote

[Irrelephant11]

I quoted that because

v/la till Monday too

[Irrelephant11]

wow yeah we have more than a week left
can we request a shorter deadline?

@Mod

?

[Irrelephant11]

I was asking in more of a theoretical "is this a thing we can do" sense
but 10 days is still probably more than enough for replacements

[Irrelephant11]

Oh so now y’all wanna complain about the deadline and not when I brought it up on like the first day?

yes.

[Irrelephant11]

additionally, during night 1, I will send out a PM asking if folks would like a shorter deadline for future days; the day 1 deadline will not change, however.

ok ty

Feels like we're just waiting on replacements to show up
If anyone wants help catching up I'm bored enough to try

[Irrelephant11]

Hey
I think you're town?
Welcome

[Irrelephant11]

that's simply not true

Spoiler: catchup, roughly 500-725

good read dunn

i also think that gamma might be scum

'but you just said gamma was town'

no I just wanted to see if he'd vote jiffy if I buddied him

Gamma is obv as fuck town. I hope you know I'm only giving you a pass for day 1 cause I'm not aiming for scum. (Ironicly what I'm aiming for would prob -you being the best lynch but ik I can't get that so 2nd best) But once D2 comes around you're dying. I know you hate flipping scum so I'll make it quick for you friend and don't feel bad about ateing me like you're gonna I don't mind.

I caught your speech. But what if I told you I'm actually not bad town? I'm only bad town from your perspective. I just don't see a reason at the moment to scum read Jiffy, and thus would not like to lynch there.

Pedit: ok, you can vote me. That's fine. You're wrong, but you're entitled to your opinion. I still love you rc

I don't townread your posting Chick but I do enjoy it. I thought you should know that

still at page 5 but i want to pull my hair out because of this so figured I'd share:
3 people haven't even posted yet.
RC has more posts than ANY two other players combined, more than the 3rd, 4th, and 5th players combined, and more posts than the BOTTOM TEN PLAYERS combined.
i'm pullin muh hairz out over here

RadiantCowbells 67
Majiffy 41
Gamma Emerald 22
Invisibility 19
PenguinPower 17
chamber 17
Maruchan 12
MariaR 11

xyzzy 11

Alchemist21 8
Chickadee 7
vonflare 6
Irrelephant11 2

Again, why is math of how many posts RC has relevant at all?

It's Maru going "how can I bus more without voting RC"

wtf is 251

Actually you know what I think
I think it could be jiffy and RC and they just did a lame bus maneuver
VOTE: Majiffy

I might join you on this I'll think about it after my catch up. (fking 14 new pages in my sleep kill me now)

changes nothing.

And that’s why you’re scum

Is this the game where we mason it up Gamma? Cause I'm ready

Work with me a bit on maru RC. Why are you sure this is a bait wagon?

This'll be interesting.

-I still don't see town!Gamma
-Maria is treating RC the same way she says Maru is here?? Scumreading RC without a vote

If I haven't @ed anyone and you're town congratulations you're doing your best to be scum aligned and if you want to change that then stop playing for scum.

If Alchemist was town he would be getting absolutely clusterfucked right now with how scummy he has been. He's not, I'm pulling hairs and fighting vote for vote to get people over there. scum can't bus in this setup. figure it out.

This feels true

Why am I town?

Cause you have top tier taste in gifs of course!
Also

@Irrelephant

To answer your question sheeping RC so he can get a town lynched and then try and back his way out of it has crossed my mind but that's prob a path scum me would take too and that'd be a bit of a pain to explain. I might do it. I want to lynch who I think gives me the best info+could flip scum but Info>Scum atm.

VOTE: Invisibility

I think your vote on me is likeliest to be scum. It’s a lazy sheep vote.

Do I townread Alchemist voting the most towny player besides gamma? mmmm somewhat.

@Penguin where are your reads at right now?

Fairly non-existent atm.

I still need to read the myriad of posts from when I was asleep.

Da fk you mean you got no read PP? More gifs more reads!

Pls don't sheep the VI

OOF

Majoffy do you have any reads?

I don't know but him asking this a 2nd time made me go "ew" mostly because it just feels like trying to be busy.

Alch is obvscum

Majiffy is scum buddy as I originally postulated w/ Deedles just as town being dumb, Chamber as buddy, MariaR possibly as further buddy

Strongly tempted to join the alch wagon just to see everyones reactions if it flips town.

--> "I would sheep RC to BoP him but that would look scummy"
--> "Maybe I'll sheep RC onto town"
Maria you are all over the place
Unsure if such unwarranted confidence in your own reads that are based on poor logic is towny or scummy

Maru Jiffy alch votes are all fine votes atm.

Alchemist votes are fine but you refuse to join?

Talk to me about other people I can give you a better answer than Invis who is legit just a "uhhh he's kinda obv" read

What do you think of Chickadee and Jiffy?

Chickadee had a few towny moments in the game I found the "I'm exhausted so tell me if I'm wrong" post quite towny. I think her whole reason for defending Jiffy is NAI and people are blowing it way out of the water. If I want Chickadee solved I'd lynch Jiffy first. (Speaking of)
Jiffy is just...here he doesn't really have many towny parts to him just a lot of posting that feels meh to me I can see him being scum easily and if I had my choice of info and scum lynch I'd kill Jiffy
VOTE: Jiffy
Pedit: Answer my question rc thanks.

No, bad
Majiffy is town!

Talk to me about other people I can give you a better answer than Invis who is legit just a "uhhh he's kinda obv" read

What do you think of Chickadee and Jiffy?

Chickadee had a few towny moments in the game I found the "I'm exhausted so tell me if I'm wrong" post quite towny. I think her whole reason for defending Jiffy is NAI and people are blowing it way out of the water. If I want Chickadee solved I'd lynch Jiffy first. (Speaking of)
Jiffy is just...here he doesn't really have many towny parts to him just a lot of posting that feels meh to me I can see him being scum easily and if I had my choice of info and scum lynch I'd kill Jiffy
VOTE: Jiffy
Pedit: Answer my question rc thanks.

I still have Jiffy as null. Just seemed a bit early to me for anyone to have claimed a meta read on him when Chickadee did it. Actually, poking Jiffy more might give some meaningful reactions.

VOTE: Jiffy

Oh maria might be town.

Sigh.

Maria/RC scum theater this whole time? Honestly wouldn't be surprised

(not extending to threatening to policy lynch her, I said that so that she'd react in a way that I could say that this was pretty conclusive proof she's scum because she would have flipped her shit as town and she flipped her shit, so.)

Ok so that’s why your read changed
Honestly I was kinda on board the Maria read as I got the feeling she gave me town status too easily

Regardless of whether RC/Maria is tvt or svs this is such a scummy post

You're right that if I ml someone I just move on with my day whoops. (good pizza btw)
Gamma you're town cause I say so friend. I won't out me meta on you. If you wanna sr me for tring you by all means go for it

I’m not asking for meta I’m asking what in this game makes you TR me

You're overly sensitive

I don't get why this is towny

Chickadee has warm comfortable pockets and if she's scum I'm probably screwed

Doesn’t that concern you a bit?

Nah even if she's scum she's gonna be tethered to at least one other person all game

Weird that you assume we won't end the game today?
And that you don't consider Chikadee for the game ending ltnch if these are your actual reads

this is again a great post A+ for insightfulness

Could use a few more votes on me from the idiots soft supporting my wagon but not ponying up a vote to back it though. Let's get it on the record, folks

Alch is probably town at this point. Reaction to being a growing, lead wagon with no opposition is not a scum reaction

Mmm honestly I feel like Alchemist is more likely scum regardless of his reaction just because the wagon has fallen apart (I haven't gotten there yet in my catch up but I did see the most recent vc before catching up)

Alch is a shit lynch unless Alch has a fantastic scum game

Majiffy doesn't say this so confidently as scum because it's too easy to get caught out D2 even if it works in the short term
Still don't see what makes Alchemist so towny to you though

half way there!!!!!!

Ok, this post is really bad. Sorry for not seeing it before alch.

see what? This is just invis being invis imo

BTW just a reminder to lay off the associatives

I don't see how this game can be won without associative reading though
Scummy suggestion

Since RC's been enjoying some from the hip guesses, I'm going to be a degenerate too.

Vonflare, Invisibility, RC, Irrelephant, Maruchan

what, as the scum team? Other than Maru you're way off base (though I admit I haven't tried to sort RC yet)

"I think everyone who is voting for my buddy is scum and so is our designated mislynch"

Is that actually that whole wagon? Magical. You are each on their for other reasons.

I'm sure we are, chamber.

Btw alch whats bad with me being ignored while a lot of other people are being ignored too?

good question

Imagine for a moment, a world where I'm town. No one is strongly pushing for a counter wagon. No one is strongly opposing the alch wagon. No one has appealed to some voters to get them to move (the only instance i can think of this is me towards gamma). I know this is the world we are in. I just can't imagine alch being scum in such a world. Everyone who reads alch as scum must also read me as scum. And I appeal to any of you who may have a town read on me to reconsider your current vote placement.

mm you seem to be an intentionally difficult player to sort who do you think you're appealing to here

It looking that way*

Intentional TWTBAW play, cool

lol that's you

I’ve been talking about the fact that I have no counterwagon since before that post. Keep bullshitting.

frick i guess im caught scum srry for letting you down team better luck next time

there has been a crap ton of opposition just the lack of a counterwagon doesnt mean that scum are just letting this slide through

is that your only point?

@

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btw

I've made this post as town before
if I'm wrong on Invis being town I'll be v sad

Can all the people on Alchemist21, most-all of whom I think are town, join me on Jiffy instead?

l o l
So RC was the scum on Alchemist's wagon the whole time??

VOTE: Gamma

Anyone that thinks Alch and myself are both town vote Gamma with me. If you think one of Alch or myself is scum, vote the appropriate wagon.

I don't know what to think anymore

So why is chamber town? @anyone townreading him

alchemist definitely might still be scum, RC leaving the wagon at L-1 was hilarious but confusing and upsetting
dunnstral is town or I don't mafia right
So's invis
Majiffy probably? too

Gamma is still the scum who scummed in scumville

[Irrelephant11]

time to meta-read gamma!
@gamma want to prep me with any specific links or should I go in cold?

[Irrelephant11]

I'm looking for emotionality
And then I'm also looking to see if I can discern any obvious differences between scum and town you (which some players have)
I agree it might take awhile, but [redacted] so I have time

[Irrelephant11]

start by looking at the players being wagoned rn, probably?

[Irrelephant11]

@lavos

[Irrelephant11]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=76567 - NY213, a scumgame for Gamma
Lots of posts, positive tone, asks lots of "huh I notice... why?" questions that he doesn't really follow up on. Sheeps others a little when convenient for agenda, changed his mind somewhat often. Without reading the full game this is probably all I'll get from this. For context: this game is a 20+ player normal.

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=77105 - Mini 2028, a towngame for Gamma
Context: a 13player multiball. Makes it further in the game than in the last, but posts less. Calls two of a three-person scumteam by page 10. Positive joke-y tone throughout. Sheeps less than NY213. Nearly endgamed.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=76913 - Mini Normal 2023, scumgame
A little aggressive at first, but changes his mind and backs off. More of a neutral tone. Sheeps more. Replaces out halfway through the game because it "felt stale".

Shoot I have to go for the day
Will finish later
Overall I'm not currently buying "highly emotional is AI for Gamma and it means he's town"
I still think he's scummy overall

[Irrelephant11]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=76567 - NY213, a scumgame for Gamma
Lots of posts, positive tone, asks lots of "huh I notice... why?" questions that he doesn't really follow up on. Sheeps others a little when convenient for agenda, changed his mind somewhat often. Without reading the full game this is probably all I'll get from this. For context: this game is a 20+ player normal.

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=77105 - Mini 2028, a towngame for Gamma
Context: a 13player multiball. Makes it further in the game than in the last, but posts less. Calls two of a three-person scumteam by page 10. Positive joke-y tone throughout. Sheeps less than NY213. Nearly endgamed.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=76913 - Mini Normal 2023, scumgame
A little aggressive at first, but changes his mind and backs off. More of a neutral tone. Sheeps more. Replaces out halfway through the game because it "felt stale".

Shoot I have to go for the day
Will finish later
Overall I'm not currently buying "highly emotional is AI for Gamma and it means he's town"
I still think he's scummy overall

Having read these and also completed two games with Gamma now
I don't see how anyone can say "sensitive + emotional = town!Gamma"
That's definitely not how I would describe either town or scum meta for him, actually.
I agree he did a thing similar to another game where he was town, but I don't agree that the fact that I did something similar to a player in his other game where he was town means he's definitely town again here.
And I also agree that Maria probably knows his alignment
So I think I'm at: Either Maria & Gamma are both scum or Maria & Gamma are both town, and based on Gamma's ISO this game alone, I'm leaning the former.

Anyone feel confident on reading MariaR?

[Irrelephant11]

well great that settles that then

[Irrelephant11]

I don't think I see the reasoning for posting scumpools? Seems like it's a quick way for scum to analyze who the easiest mislynch targets are

[Irrelephant11]

why can't Maria be scum with Gamma town? :>

oh, that's... actually a good point

I didn't think of it mainly because I still think Gamma's scum
Let me know when you re-read my case on Gamma if you still think he's town. I've seen basically nothing from him that makes me townread him and he's had multiple scummy moments

[Irrelephant11]

Btw I’m thinking Irrel is town after that questioning I did

what made you think I'm town?

[Irrelephant11]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald
I doubt these wagons are both on scum, I feel better here

[Irrelephant11]

Because the townreads on him were flimsy and undeserved
he's also
-tried to position himself as "conftown"
-tried to get everyone to share giant lynchpools
-tried to townread me w/o explanation to get me off his back

Just iso him though I feel like it's self explanatory at this point

[Irrelephant11]

One of my busiest IRL weekends in a long time
Sorry for the empty prodge

[Irrelephant11]

Why

Why didn't you kill me and remove me from this horrible game called mafia


Life is cruel and the mafia are all a bunch of assholes

This is a pretty terrible opener for the game day
1613 is a good post

sorry for not being here. i would say i was busy, which i was, but i also just kind of lost some of my confidence in Gamma town from elephant's posting, in spite of the fact that i've been pretty good at pegging him when he's being town Gamma before.

This is not a good post. It's actually pretty terrible - "Sorry I lynched town, it was elephant's fault"

Maria, remind me if you were right on Dunnstral in Purgatory?

Yup called him out and what did he do right after? Scumread me. What is he doing here? Scumreading me because he knows he can't pocket me.
He wants me to "rethink" about what? He didn't post anything there's nothing to go "maybe I was wrong" in the first place. lol

I was gonna ask you a question but it's already being asked: bold in the post below

I didn't replace alisae btw

I agree alisae was town. I wanted to replace alisae even, btu they gave me someone else I forgot now

You replaced chamber. (I know because I'm keeping track in my preliminary reads list that I came up with to sanity-check my reads in this large game.)

@Maria: I don't want to have to reread the massive wall of text that is twilight. Can you explain your vote on Dunn? Dunn summed up his reason for voting you, which I don't find entirely compelling, but can you sum up yours?

VOTE: Chickadee

For the VCAs.

Can you explain? I tried looking through her iso and couldn't quite find what you're talking about. Though I admit from that I did get the idea that she could possibly be scum that doesn't quite know where to push and so basically settles for anything.

I am voting Chickadee because I want to sort her to resolve the d1 wagons.

Tell me more about how you think this will work

In general I think re-reading D1 might be more helpful than trying to feel out the new gamestate - I think it's going to be very hard to gather reads with so many scum talking, unless they decide to bus. But they can't change last game day, and I doubt all the major wagons were on town
For now VOTE: Alchemist based on how his wagon seemed the hardest to build - for awhile I was thinking the RC slot was scum because of it, but regardless I think this vote makes sense

[Irrelephant11]

@cobbler what else did your vca teach you?

[Irrelephant11]

@toranaga and whoever else was townreading alisae: why?

[Irrelephant11]

Oh. Hm. Did you change your profile picture?
Oh yeah nvm you're a townread, you're fine. I do think it's more likely scum was on wagon than off...

[Irrelephant11]

8 players voting for Gamma Emerald (Majiffy, Titus, Chickadee, Toranaga, Irrelephant11, PenguinPower, Invisibility, Dunnstral)
2 players voting for Chickadee (Cobblerfone, Not_Mafia)
2 players voting for Majiffy (MariaR, Gamma Emerald)
1 player voting for Alchemist21 (Lavos)
1 player voting for Cobblerfone (Alchemist21)

1 player not voting (Chara)

with 15 players alive, it takes 8 votes to lynch.

I actually think titus/chickadee/toranaga look the worst here, as the 2/3/4 slots on the wagon are important ones for building momentum on the mislynch wagon. though the whole wagon deserves scrutiny, though. Given scum shot on-wagon, I doubt all five scum are on wagon, but probably in the 3-4 range (I think I probably agree with whoever said Penguin was shot for being too widely townread)

I could see a scum!chickadee with a scum teammate or two sitting on her wagon for later potential bussing cred... But let me actually re-read, I guess.

pedit: I definitely didn't townread Pure Sadness and I'm sorta getting pocketing vibes from cobblerfone (like "look, I'm progressing on Irrelephant - but also I have no real work to show when I reference vca I did behind the scenes...") but like I said I definitely want gameplay from last game day to direct me here

[Irrelephant11]

I don't remember my case last game day, but rn I think she's in a bad spot vca-wise, like I just said..?
RC was confident she was scum (and has more experience with her than I do), too. I'll get back to you on if I still feel this way after I re-read
gotta go afk for a bit though

[Irrelephant11]

VCA without scum flips isn't good VCA. and what would make Chick different from Majiffy in that regard?

...did you read my post?
Majiffy was first on the wagon and calling for players to sheep her
Chickadee was third on the wagon and sheeped majiffy with no previous scumread of gamma (and in fact he was one of her few states townreads)
VOTE: Chickadee

VCA without scumflips is fine but wagon placement alone is bad VCA you gotta look at the context of the votes as well.

Is this to me or chara? Because I feel like I'm talking useful vca and everyone is telling me to stop
Like obviously I can't just color in everyone's names on a single vc based on two green flips
But looking at where and when people voted is a great place to start

VCA without scumflips is fine but wagon placement alone is bad VCA you gotta look at the context of the votes as well.

Correct, if I felt it necessary to have an overarching theory but it's too early. Knowing Chickadee's alignment suggests how scum felt day 1. Then we can work outward.

What does this mean?

[Irrelephant11]

I'm aware of context! why am I being talked down to at every turn
I think she caved incredibly easily and didn't actually scumread gamma
Have YOU gone back to re-read the moment where she sheeped you?

& let's stop calling it vca then, I'm basically just looking at the EOD wagon and seeing which votes were bad. I haven't gone further than that into vca atm

[Irrelephant11]

i'm sorry if it seemed like i was talking down to you or anything, not my intention. and i'd misunderstood what you meant about Chick and Majiffy (i'd thought you were referring to the wagons on them, not their individual presences on Gamma's wagon).

Yeah I was a little over-irritable yesterday, it's fine

Gamma
Alchemist
(I think one of them is scum, but maybe not both? Would lynch either honestly)
Dunn I suppose
Chamber, but no one else seems to be there

@chikadee: what made you say dunn here?

I didn't feel like Dunn was really game solving to the extent I usually see from him.

Why did you say Gamma in 1373? You'd previously townread him

@irrelephant It means with Chickadee's flip we can assess likely scum motivation yesterday. If Chickadee scum, we can infer massive peeling yesterday. If Chickadee town, scum likely did not care which die (unless one was right).

What does "peeling" mean here? Also, are you suggesting we flip chickadee as an info lynch?

[Irrelephant11]

[Irrelephant11]

Baby shark doo doo doodoo doodoo doo doo

Yeah why does this game feel stalled
Also why are so many people sheeping Maria

[Irrelephant11]

is maria town?
@invis

@chara, yes, but titus wanting to info-flip chick isn't a great look for him either way...

@mariaR, I think the wagon on Dunn is happening too easily so far
... hmmm but I am also townreading most of the wagon
I'll think about it, but I don't super get your case on him other than "I can always read him right". He's at L-2 and I'm not ready to get to L-1 with so many players barely touching the thread so far this game day so consider me a "maybe later"

@majiffy who do you want to lynch?
@toranaga hbu?

[Irrelephant11]

Okay, but basically no one on the wagon except maria has provided reasoning so it looks too easy fmpov

[Irrelephant11]

why are you voting dunn, lavos?

[Irrelephant11]

mmmkay good points, especially the quickhammer one.
oh yeah and you're vonflare
well okay you're town

I've been townreading invis anc chara most of the gmae

NM is NM
I guess i'm just stuck on Maria who seemed less and less interested in the game last gameday and who was interested in an info-flip d1(??) and only post-green-flip is suddenly sure of a scumread
Like if she can always 100% confidently read dunnstral as scum why didn't this come up last game day
on the other hand it's probably scum bussing scum and even if it's not it's more likely to be town voting scum

Yeah okay I'll probably vote dunnstral but I'm not ready for a quickhammer into lylo if he's town so I'll hold off for now so I and others can reread more
No need to rush and if I'm way off on my reads rushing is exactly what the scumteam of maria+invis+chara+lavos+nm want

[Irrelephant11]

inb4 dunnstral is lovers with chickadee

[Irrelephant11]

I guess i'm just stuck on Maria who seemed less and less interested in the game last gameday and who was interested in an info-flip d1(??) and only post-green-flip is suddenly sure of a scumread
Like if she can always 100% confidently read dunnstral as scum why didn't this come up last game day
on the other hand it's probably scum bussing scum and even if it's not it's more likely to be town voting scum

was it not because of Dunnstral's hammer, which only happened after day 1 was over anyway

That's my point - Maria only "caught" dunnstral after the day was already over
I think at one point she even called him town, and she rarely mentioned him till she was suddenly "sure"
While I agree that town!her clearly has a good record of reading dunnstral it just feels kinda opportunistic because of the timing, like lining up a new mislynch as soon as the previous one went through
I definitely don't townread dunnstral as much as I did early in the game because of the hammer but he seems a little lynchbait-y this game day?

She can't read me.

Well this is disingenuous, she's already proven she usually can
What's your track record on reading Maria? Like how sure are you that we should lynch her if you flip town?

Actually you know what, let's say she can, then what's her excuse when I die?

Really, is she going to get out of this? Because I'm not trusting you guys to lynch her tomorrow

mm this is sorta towny

She can't read me.

This has already been proven false.

Fair.
@Maria what are your thoughts on like anyone other than Dunnstral?

This reeks of Chickadee scum based on gut wagon thoughts. More detail tonight.

hmmm curious to hear this

VOTE: lavos

?
tell me more

I am not reading dunnstral’s latest posts as a scum reaction. He’s way too consigned to his fate for someone that would end up bringing one or two others down with him.

This is sort of an interesting point. It's definitely true that a "designated bus" would be less effective than usual here. Unless he's lovers with chickadee

[Irrelephant11]

Confused that dunnstral and chickadee are 2/4 players not voting for dunnstral or chickadee
Are they actually lovers

majiffy you should either start putting in some hard work to get your preferred wagon going or join one of these wagons
At least one of them is almost certainly scum at this rate

toranaga why did you unvote? I forget

[Irrelephant11]

UNVOTE: dunnstral

I agree dunn looks too resigned to be scum

oh
hmm

Then who's scum?

[Irrelephant11]

lol

I agree that the day feels rushed by ~half the playerlist (we've got 5.5 days left!) but I don't feel like your vote is doing much rn

[Irrelephant11]

This game is yikes. You can't even read anyone here on activity

Anyone around?

[Irrelephant11]

Sorry all I got called into a meeting right after making that post

I doubt Invis/Alch is SvS
I'm actually feeling similar to Chickadee about Dunnstral, which is interesting... Makes me think chickadee/dunnstral is either tvt or svs (given they haven't voted each other despite being the two largest wagons)

[Irrelephant11]

I scumread chickadee more than dunnstral early game but I forget why
I get the "alch momentum is scum indicative" thing and it might be true but I feel like most scum were on wagon EOD and he wasn't
Like he might flip scum and I might be willing to go there but I just think the odds are lower. This is why Dunnstral and Chickadee were wagons this gameday iirc

Toranaga and titus are both pretty under the radar and were both on wagon...

[Irrelephant11]

Hi @alch, do you still want a chickadee lynch? What do you think of the RC/Titus slot now?

dunnstral, you're gonna have to do a lot more to get maria lynched, or give up on maria for the day
I don't really townread her but the momentum isn't really there and there's definitely scummier slots given the worst things she did were TMI Gamma's alignment (which she says she can always do) and scumread you which makes sense given your gammer

pedit: who do you want to lynch tho
pedit2: eh I don't know I'd call alisae obvtown unless it's a meta thing

[Irrelephant11]

Let's shake things up!


Titus ISO, every d1 post on Gamma (the only player he voted):

titus vote alch

No Alch looks town vote elsewhere. Like Gamma!

Why

VOTE: Gamma

Because Gamma has not seen Star Wars: The Last Jedi.

I want a 4 person scumpool from everyone, this will help us get a bearing on who is viable as a lynch
My scumpool:
Alchemist
Jiffy
Titus
Dunnstral

Why is your pool largely omgus?

Every d2 post from Titus on Chickadee:

VOTE: Chickadee

For the VCAs.

VOTE: Chickadee

For the VCAs.

Can you explain? I tried looking through her iso and couldn't quite find what you're talking about. Though I admit from that I did get the idea that she could possibly be scum that doesn't quite know where to push and so basically settles for anything.

I am voting Chickadee because I want to sort her to resolve the d1 wagons.

VCA without scumflips is fine but wagon placement alone is bad VCA you gotta look at the context of the votes as well.

Correct, if I felt it necessary to have an overarching theory but it's too early. Knowing Chickadee's alignment suggests how scum felt day 1. Then we can work outward.

@irrelephant It means with Chickadee's flip we can assess likely scum motivation yesterday. If Chickadee scum, we can infer massive peeling yesterday. If Chickadee town, scum likely did not care which die (unless one was right).

This reeks of Chickadee scum based on gut wagon thoughts. More detail tonight.

I've said already why Alchemist's alignment can be either town or scum and RC's play around the slot would still be scummy. Anyway I can't really read RC but just from reading Titus this doesn't look like laissez faire town it looks like opportunistic scum
VOTE: Titus

[Irrelephant11]

What happened to your Alisae townread?

my townreads are me/chara/lavos/probably invis/probably cobblerfone
Why are you townreading maria confidently?

[Irrelephant11]

oh wait lol alisae is cobblerfone now lollllll
too many replacements this game

[Irrelephant11]

Yes, that's NM's meta - probably the most unique meta onsite rn. He rarely explains himself and lolhammers whenever he gets the chance. Really the only way to read him is by context - is he voting for scum (after flips)? Etc.

[Irrelephant11]

also, agreed with Cobbler that you're overtunneled, Dunnstral. If you evaluate more of the playerlist and you're still scumreading MariaR, I'll hear you out, but I don't think she's obvscum at this point (at least not more than like half the playerlist is)

Seriously if anyone thinks Titus is town though please do share
It kinda seems like he was just gonna stay under the radar of the large playerlist through another mislynch

[Irrelephant11]

Seriously if anyone thinks Titus is town though please do share

Titus is a she just FYI

Also RC was dumbtown and last I checked alignments don't change with the replacements so Titus is town too

oops sorry titus! won't happen again

If you have any specific way to read RC's alignment in this game please do provide.
I don't think any particular post or series of posts was AI for him and what I am left with is the way he chose to play the game: "Sheep and BoP me! Oh wait the lynch is about to go through let me just sheep someone else and the nrep out"
While idk if the rep out was AI I don't think that's the trajectory of someone like RC as town given he's pretty headstrong and confident in his reads. I especially don't think town!RC who had decided to play that way ("kingmake me") would end up sheeping another player at all

But I've already acknowledged I only have one scumtell for RC (that doesn't actually happen in all or even most of his scumgames) so I'm leaning more on my read of Titus

[Irrelephant11]

Spoiler: RC being certain Alch is scum until he's actually lynchable, sheeping Maria, then moving to chickadee just before repping out

I'm saying that 6/10 of the town is are all on the same wagon and at most 1 town is voting anyone else as a result giving scum no easy wagons.

Also alchemist is obviously scum so generally when town have been getting in thread they have been voting there.

Scum keep trying to say oh I'm scumreading everyone who defends alchemist

But that's because all the scum are defending alchemist because that's the setup that we are playing in.

Ok Alchemist

Who would you be willing to vote if I were to unvote you?

Hmmmmmm

Didn't Maria want jiffy

Locking chamber as town does make alch seem a lot more likely to be town

Doesn't make me any more sure in Maru scum, I'd want to go over to Jiffy in that case

VOTE: Majiffy

Alright Maria it's your lucky day

Actually wait a second

VOTE: Deedles

why not this lol

Chickadee you have the next 3 days to do something that convinces me you're town or I'm ending the game with your lynch.

I am going to be replacing out. GL town.

replace me

So I guess he didn't sheep for that long, but I still think the last-second quitting the wagon was scummy

[Irrelephant11]

[Irrelephant11]

Hey Majiffy I just noticed you live in Buffalo! We're only like 1.5 hours from each other
Nice

[Irrelephant11]

shoot ur rihgt

[Irrelephant11]

...

[Irrelephant11]

Welp scum have decided not to bus, I guess

Town should come vote Titus now

[Irrelephant11]

lol mayyyybe
haha yeah it's true

[Irrelephant11]

Does it look like mafia are really concerned about Titus being lynched, like at all?

Yes.
Like what?
Yes, definitely
I scumcased Titus and the game just *stopped*

[Irrelephant11]

I think it's more likely that they would stop posting than that they would all show up in defense
There's nothing to defend so I think it's actually very likely they'd go quiet and try to wait it out in hopes momentum would die rather than defend their buddy as he's approaching a flip
It's definitely possible one or two scum are also already one the wagon so they could unvote when the time is right

But regardless of wagon momentum (which too many players are placing too much importance on & interpreting weirdly imo) how do you read the Titus slot?

pedit: yes it 100% is
We have had three IRL days and three pages of content since I made the case
Half of which is just lolposting

[Irrelephant11]

I guess we lynch dunn? and if he is town we can just blame maria

mm yes how simple, how easy

VOTE: Mariar

lol

I'm trying to work out what strategy there has to be here to give town any chance of winning
Like fmpov half of you are scum and are to be ignored
But clearly my reads have been terrible this game

Do we like, elect a town leader? who gets to pick the lynch
Or force two scummy players to cross vote to confirm that at least one of them is scum
or
hmm

Anyone out there a secret mathdino alt?

[Irrelephant11]

8 players voting for Gamma Emerald (Majiffy,

Titus

,

Chickadee

,

Toranaga

,

Irrelephant11

,

PenguinPower,

Invisibility

, Dunnstral)
2 players voting for Chickadee (Cobblerfone, Not_Mafia)
2 players voting for Majiffy (

MariaR, Gamma Emerald

)
1 player voting for Alchemist21 (Lavos)
1 player voting for Cobblerfone (Alchemist21)

1 player not voting (Chara)

--------------------------------

7 players voting for Titus (

Irrelephant11

, Chara,

Chickadee

,

Invisibility

, Not_Mafia, Alchemist21,

Toranaga

)
2 players voting for Not_Mafia (Majiffy, Cobblerfone)
2 players voting for Dunnstral (

MariaR

, Lavos)
1 player voting for Chickadee (

Titus

)
1 player voting for MariaR (Dunnstral)

0 players not voting

-------------------------------

All I got right now. I plan to sample other votecounts and compare them later, so I'll be saving this as a draft too.

For this and other reasons Toranaga and Chickadee are my two biggest scumreads
-toranaga has zero WIM and has basically done nothing other than argue with MariaR and lolvote both mislynch wagons. Also his suggestion this game day to vote dunnstral and "blame mariar" is basically openwolfing
-chickadee has felt scummy all game and has somehow rode out multiple wagons on her without ever getting to L-2

I had felt like invisibility was towny D1 but he's closer to null after voting town "without wanting to" twice
what do you do with nulls in 6v5 lylo...
I could actually see invis being scum with one or more of the people he's been pushing (dunnstral/alchemist) given he's "vocal" about them but never actually makes much of a case for others to follow. Otoh, if he's scum he's probably not the scum we'll be lynching today.
invis/nm/dunnstral don't feel sortable this game day, honestly. Like not that it's 100% impossible to sort any of them ever, I just feel like they're all so hard to read in general and this isn't the gamestate to risk it on one of them.


If I have to have strong townreads (iffy at this point, but necessary), it's probably just chara/cobbler/lavos, with the caveat that there's probably one scum even in there at this point. majiffy might be town like I thought d1. I forget why I lost that read d2

We have ~a week to do re-reading before we need to really consolidate somewhere, so that's how I intend to spend my time

[Irrelephant11]

Yes.

VOTE: Toranaga

UNVOTE:

what was this?

[Irrelephant11]

No, you tell me about your lavos read

[Irrelephant11]

@cobbler is there a reason you think scum are more likely to be off wagons than on?

[Irrelephant11]

would scum be more likely to be hanging back because they think we're off track? or is this just town disinterest.

honestly it's hard to not feel like it's already a loss
I'll be here today, though, and will have time to re-read.
@cobbler the alchemist wagon died because RC, it's champion, left it.
Also are you familiar at all with NM's meta?

I wish Tora would post like at all

[Irrelephant11]

ISO'd Tora and I'm still strongly leaning scum there. I don't buy that he doesn't care and is oblivious to the rules, I think he's actually just uninterested in solving the game because he replaced in to a scumslot. I would say more but, like, there isn't more.

ISO'd Chickadee and her reads never seem to mean anything to her. Like they disappear whenever it's convienent. I'm not sure I'll be able to find a 100% correct town team but these are my two strongest scumreads right now.

Aaaaand I have to go afk

[Irrelephant11]

ur so good at it too

[Irrelephant11]

How many people did you ISO?


How do you feel about Jiffy accepting my town read of him so easily D1?

Just you two to see if my scumreads on your slots made sense, and then I had to go before I could do more
In a large game like this I'd be surprised if that was the only instance of someone "accepting a townread easily"
Like why is that a reason to scumread them vs. just assume they were focused elsewhere?

Everybody seems intent on avoiding discussion on Invis or looking at their iso or saying you can't read him so I'll help you guys out: He wasn't quickhammered so there's guaranteed scum between the two of us, it doesn't matter what your read on alch or nm or tora or whoever is this day phase anymore

Literally no clue what you're saying here

I was at L-1 when

legit question

Why is your focus on dunnstral and yourself? Can you offer reads on tora, chickadee, or majiffy please?

Nah. Questioning intentions is where it’s at.

how's that read on lavos coming along? while you're at it, how do you read majiffy?

[Irrelephant11]

1 player voting for Invisibility (Dunnstral)

oh shoot this is what dunnstral is talking about
has every player posted since this happened? Maybe he's right about it being a "must have at least one scum" thing

[Irrelephant11]

Chick were you scumreading invis?

[Irrelephant11]

I find it odd that there is no urgency in anyone's game... Like I feel like town should feel some urgency regarding the two lynchwagons, but I also feel like scum should feel urgency if one of the two wagons is on scum
But then again both wagons are at L-4 and it seems like scum could have coordinated a quickhammer by now so I do feel like I'm forced to assume one of these two players is scum, which isn't my favorite thing (Given I literally said these are two of the three players I super feel like I can't read)

[Irrelephant11]

"No point presuming this early"
I guess that's true but like how long do we sit and wait for scum to hammer before we're sure scum can't just hammer
It would be weird to me if both invis/dunnstral were scum because this play makes it very very likely one of them is getting lynched
I also don't really townread either one so I would be sorta surprised if this were tvt
Do you read it as tvt or svs?

[Irrelephant11]

Yes, actually - I wasn't gonna say it because I didn't want to cast unnecessary paranoia in this gamestate but that was exactly what I was just thinking... I think the dunn vote was especially bad. I think I actually agree with everything you just posted (willing to vote invis, but majiffy is looking like a better lynch, though imo Tora was and still is my strongest preference)

[Irrelephant11]

What's your read on Tora?

[Irrelephant11]

Also Maria/Dunn felt pretty TvT by the end there and I think it's pretty reasonable scum would nightkill Maria and enter the thread with "well let's kill Dunn now" (which is what Tora did (even after defending Dunn on a previous day))

[Irrelephant11]

I'm not really reading tora off his lack of activity
I think his "I neither know nor care about the setup/my own actions" attitude would normally be too scummy to be scum, but I think scum can get away with bolder play in this setup due to having so many numbers and I often feel like I'm the only one directing attention his way (whereas if he were town I would expect a lot of attention to go his way from scum looking for an easy lynch)... I think both his votes were opportunistic and I think his play after a Maria death is exactly how I suspect scum play would look in retrospect
On the other hand, there's a small chance I'm over-scumreading him because I'm frustrated with his play if town, but... I really don't see town motivation for like anything he has posted

I think I wasn't nightkilled because I've been on both mislynch wagons and have had terrible reads, so maybe I shouldn't get the lynch I want :/
I haven't thought at all about why you would/wouldn't be nightkilled, though if you're looking to make me feel sorta paranoid about you it worked

@cobbler come back and talk more, I think you're town
Scum seems pretty content to sit back and wait for a mislynch
I'm not giving up yet

pedit: that's... a pretty good point. Like if you think Dunn is a town to tora's scum then maybe just vote invis is what you're saying?

[Irrelephant11]

VOTE: Invisibility

[Irrelephant11]

Hi I'm back and with the game state *not changing at all* I'm pretty sure I have to be right here
I think I would still be willing to vote Tor-slot? I just finished a game with Toranaga and his postcount here is absolutely AI.
but fmpov the fact that invis/dunn are both stuck at small wagons (and invis has at least one town vote: mine) means one if not both of them are almost definitely scum, and I'm leaning invis (unless I'm the one townie on the wagon and scum just *really can't* organize a quickhammer, but I don't think there's any slot left that's inactive, with Tor being replaced)
Purrcocet saying dunn is scum over invis is town-indicative for dunn imo

[Irrelephant11]

lol

[Irrelephant11]

UNVOTE:
hngggg why is this game the way it is

pedit: no clue what you're trying to say there, purrcocet. Like obviously Invis could have been quickhammered if there were any town on Invis? Which I am? What's your point, besides saying you scumread me?

[Irrelephant11]

Oh, yeah, sorry, it's fair to say I wasn't clear there about Tora's postcount - I mean his postcount from previous gamedays. But yeah, that's not really the strongest part of my read there anyway
Chara, why majiffy? I don't remember a case there from you

[Irrelephant11]

This I know. But you were in that game - did you read how part of how I figured out his alignment in lylo was by doing a metadive and discovering that postcount is absolutely an AI part of Toranaga's meta? Granted you were dead at that point but it's still the case for him
I liked you better as Lavos

[Irrelephant11]

I think that it was one minor point you had for him, and not as major as you seem to be suggesting here- you even described it as a "skim" of his meta.

"skim" meant I only read a couple games of each alignment, but the point stuck across those games
I'm also not suggesting it's the biggest reason to scumread him; I detailed the major reasons for scumreading Tora in 2084, and have since remembered that his post count is another reason to scumread him

Why?

Because in the world where Invis is town he could have been hammered (unless you think dunnstral/chickadee/myself are all scum, which I know isn't true)
On the other hand "maybe scum can't manage to coordinate a hammer" has been said so many times, scum are probably saying it too and it might just be true, which is why I unvoted
Do you think there's any chance invis/dunn are tvt?

[Irrelephant11]

I'm actually really confused why this is my first time seeing 2108????

[Irrelephant11]

Like I am 100% certain I have never read these words, weird

[Irrelephant11]

He quickhammered Gamma when d1 was super important and had weird progression into doing it. He suspected Gamma super early d1, forgot about it and then hammered with the justification of "oh we don't need Cobbler's thoughts if gamma is scum" - yeah well what if he's town? His defense of Toranaga was suspicious regardless of Tor's alignment - he kinda just jumped into defending him and won't respond about why he was so certain that PP would have re-evaluated is read. Additionally he accused Maria of "just a naked vote that won't gain any traction so she can coast through the day on a baseless read while hoping townies start to wagon me." which a) doesn't really make any sense because I think if you want to coast through the day on a naked vote that won't get any traction, you don't exactly want people to focus on your target, and b) he is basically doing literally the exact same thing as he's accusing Maria of doing wrt/ voteparking Maria and not trying to push any wagon that will gain traction.

All of this still applies and it applies even more now that MariaR is DEAD and Dunnstral is the one who benefits from that because, guess what, she would have voted for Dunnstral today. He pretended that he didn't see the kill flip which is garbage and just a fake townslip. Why would you not read the kill flip? It's literally vital information and there is no reason to just ignore it. Dunnstral's read on Invis came out of absolutely nowhere. The push on Invis was completely artificial and generated today. In the span of eight posts he decides Invisibility is scum LITERALLY FOR PUSHING HIM WHEN HE HAD AN ENTIRE WAGON OF PEOPLE VOTING FOR HIM YESTERDAY and for coasting (which applies to almost half of the playerlist and this is more Invisibility's playstyle than actually coasting.) There is no progression before this, it's a sudden rush into voting Invis. And despite even saying Tora was guilty of the same thing, he tries to push me into voting Invis when I turn up in the thread using the logic of "no quickhammer so scum between us" - multiple people have pointed out that this isn't true already and he's just ignoring that because it's not convenient? I can't imagine it would be easy to get 5 people online at one time especially since they most likely have varying timezones, and this is an inactive game where people aren't turning up as much as usual.

speaking of which, why aren't we lynching him? He's still not getting quick lynched and there's 5 scum alive, I wonder why that is

This is playing dumb. He KNOWS about the possibility that he himself could be scum, he doesn't actually totally lack awareness of the situation.

In addition to this he was also tunneling on Maria for the entirety of d2 as an excuse to do absolutely nothing. Like, he kept acting like people were actually going to vote MariaR, which obviously wasn't the case, and complaining about how we won't consider MariaR as a wagon when it has exactly 1 member and nobody else was ever going to consider joining.

MariaR seems awfully content to sit back and let Titus get lynched considering she apparently knows I'm scum

This is outstandingly hypocritical considering that even though the Maria wagon was obviously never going to happen, Dunn just said "oh let's vote Maria!" as if that was going to get anything done.

VOTE: Dunn

such a scum vote

is there someone else you'd like to lynch Dunn?

Not really

This read on NM totally disappeared here. He also pushed NM a bit later, here:

Is there a punishment for voting first?

And yet you didn't vote and also seem to hold no opinions

But apparently voting Invis out of nowhere is the better option.

What's so good about the Invis wagon then? Irrelephant, for all your talk of my vote on Dunn being a "bad vote" and me being scum for it, there's no reason for your vote given at all, and it seemingly came out of absolutely nowhere at all, other than suspecting Toranaga for flaking? Flaking isn't a scum strategy, that's not how it works. If you flake, you cannot win. Your replacement is part of the game, you aren't. It is not a strategical move. Mafia are not going to flake to advance their win condition. Not to mention the fact that Tora and Dunn could easily be scum together. If you believe scum only bus when it's totally optimal you are flat out wrong and the only thing from either of them that really comes close to real bussing is Tora's "let's lynch Dunn for Maria" at the start of d3. And even then he would've known that wouldn't actually happen!

Okay I started by trying to snip this post to make it easier to respond to but it's already got a lot going on so here are just my thoughts:
-To start, Purrcocet has already joined the dunnstral wagon, so you basically have to decide between Tora and dunnstral being scum here (unless you think purrcocet is going in hard on a scumbuddy in lylo)
-You're 100% misrepping my case on Tora. You make it sound like I was like "Oh tora replaced out? Must be scum" when the replace-out is 0% of my case. I think Tora's votes have been opportunistic (was on both wagons with basically no reasons), his engagement with the content of this game was crap, his stances were inconsistent, and his push on dunnstral this game day was extremely convenient. Not to mention his laissez faire attitude was basically openwolfing given how he refused to internalize the importance of early lynches in this setup even as a bunch of people explained it to him
--> As a sub-point, "MariaR died so Dunnstral has to be scum" is like the most WIFOM-y thing you could say about the nightkill here. Assume dunnstral is town and you are scum for a second. What would be the easiest mislynch you could get here by using the nightkill effectively?
-My vote on Invis did not come from out of nowhere. I've clearly been acting on some false assumptions, including townreading both dunnstral and invis (I seriously doubt both are town here), so I've been re-evaluating. Invis' play has basically been "tunneling" in the exact same way you're describing dunnstral's "tunnel" on MariaR. The difference fmpov is that
--> A) dunnstral's felt more personal, and therefore more understandable
--> B) Invis jumped on multiple mislynch wagons when it became convenient to do so


after writing all that out it occurred to me that dunnstral/invis both being conf!50/50 t/s is actually not really that helpful of information, because all of you are conf!50/50 t/s given this is lylo. I hate this game day and am prepared to complain about this setup lots post-game

[Irrelephant11]

invis/ausuka/purr/majiffy are town

or

chara/nm/dunnstral/chickadee?

I choose the latter

VOTE: Majiffy

[Irrelephant11]

is that hammer?

[Irrelephant11]

ring ring
ring ring
ring ring
hello?
yes, alchemist and dunn were the mafia

*ahem*

dunn and alch are scum
chara is town elephant is town
basically it
havent really been paying much attention to the game

[Irrelephant11]

good game town, sorry this was unfun - I was doing my utmost to suck the fun out for town as a strat and it seemed to work, and while I enjoy knowing it works as a strat I'm not sure I'll ever do it again because I didn't have much more fun than y'all

coordinating a quickhammer is hardddd

[Irrelephant11]

I wouldn't be this salty if I was alive and couldn't get dunn lynched cause gg wp. But the fact I got nk and people didn't auto lynch him makes me so mad.

if you died this game and are bragging about good reads
that's why you're dead jsyk