Limbo l Victory!

[Lady Angel]

Hello world.

VOTE: ManateeDude

You have the most vowels in your name, therefore you are the most guilty.

[Lady Angel]

If Toxic Goo is town, they should claim before we accidentally end up with a few PRs poisoned. Not sure on Vt though.

[Lady Angel]

oh god what does that role do

According to the possible role list, Toxic Goo automatically poisons any player who targets them. Needless to say, leaving this unclaimed as a town role is a bad idea.

[Lady Angel]

UNVOTE:

I like the case on Creature but I don't want to vote him before he at least says something, since fluctuating activity isn't a great reason to me.

Maria/Joey feels town vs town to me right now, although it's day 1 so it's probably best not to take any of my reads seriously.

[Lady Angel]

So why did you unvote manateedude?

My reasoning for voting him was "he has the most vowels in his name". I don't see him being scummy right now, so no reason to keep it on.

[Lady Angel]

Mostly waiting for Manatee to pop back into the thread.

what

sigh...

got anything else to add?

[Lady Angel]

Mostly waiting for Manatee to pop back into the thread.

what

sigh...

got anything else to add?

Agree in terms of the general frustration with Manatee, but calling someone out on prod dodging while prod dodging yourself isn't much better.

I'm more annoyed that for the most part he's offered even less than the rest of the prod dodgers.

I'd also not be surprised if one of Almost50 and Purrcocet flipped red, but that's just a gut thing so don't trust it too much.

[Lady Angel]

VOTE: Elsa Jay

Trying to RNG a lynch? Really?

[Lady Angel]

Didn't like Lady's reaction to that.

VOTE: Lady Angel

@Lady, tell me what's AI of Elsa's Maria vote.

It's completely out of the blue and RNG-based, for one. I also think she's the scummiest player in the game currently. I don't like her whole "I want to be suspicious" thing, or how willing she was to sheep on Creature with a misunderstanding of time.

I also still think Maria and Joey are town and Almost50 and Purrcocet have a higher chance of being scum. Everyone else is probably a null for me.

[Lady Angel]

Getting prodded and then suddenly join the popular wagon is also weird.

You're not even the leading wagon...

To answer some things that have popped up about me:

- I've played in games where people have based deathtunnels by RNGing a target and pushing for them all game. Sore spot.
- Go read any day 1 of a game I've been in on this site and it'll become pretty apparent why I'm always defensive.

[Lady Angel]

i swear every game i play lady angel is getting run up

Isn't it weird? It's apparently my defining trait in this game despite the fact that I've never drawn an anti-town role before.

Clearly there's a fricken reason for that then.

hey, I've never once pretended I'm good at this game. I just like the roles.

[Lady Angel]

I'm not satisfied by Lady's answers. The whole "played in games where people have based deathtunnels by RNGing a target" thing could potentially explain her overreaction to Elsa's dice vote, but I wanted to see the games for myself to see if its comparable, though when I asked her about this among other things she just flat out ignored me. Half of her Elsa read doesn't make any sense, and I don't like the transition from her liking the case on Creature -> attacking Elsa for pushing on Creature.

It wasn't on this site, and several years old. I'm not gonna be able to find them.

what else did you ask me?

[Lady Angel]

It wasn't on this site, and several years old. I'm not gonna be able to find them.

what else did you ask me?

There's two main things concerning me right now:

1)Explain what you meant by Elsa "sheeping on Creature with a misunderstanding of time" and how you thought that was scummy.

2)Explain how you went from initially liking the case on Creature to now scum-reading Elsa for her push on Creature.

1) Elsa wagoned Creature because she thought there was 20 hours in the day, so she jumped on it. Scum in general is more likely to wagon if it's near the end of the day to swing a mislynch, and Elsa hopping on thinking it was less than a day to go fits that.

2) I stopped liking the case on Creature once he posted, and as I said up there Elsa's push felt scummy to me.

[Lady Angel]

Okay, but isn't that a way to improve activity? It could probably help her get back into the game/its her attempt to rile it back up, which it worked.

I mean, I guess that could be her intention if she's town, but it's not really clear that's her intention in the first place. I definitely don't think she foresaw her vote stirring activity -- the only explanation I can think of is if she purposefully made a bad vote, but I would've expected her to retract it by now in that case.

Plus it really sucks to be like, "lurking is scummy" then as soon as they make a post trying to play the game it's suddenly scummy as well. Like, no.

It's not like her Elsa vote is the first post she made all game. She's made multiple attempts to "play the game" and all of them fell flat. There's a general newbie feel to her play -- which is weird considering she's apparently been playing for years now? -- and that's fine overall. It's the inconsistencies in her logic and her tendency to scum-read people for the exact same things she's doing that's really bothering me.

It's not like I can really retract a vote when I'm the leading wagon, since that puts me comparatively closer to lynch.

Before July, I hadn't played in close to 3 years, and I was never that good at it (I'm arguably better now despite being world-class lynchbait, since I don't panic the second I attract votes anymore). I'm also at my absolute worst on day 1, which is why I tell people not to take my reads seriously for at least that day.

[Lady Angel]

Yes, you can retract a vote if you're the leading wagon? Especially if, say, you were voting a town read, because getting them lynched instead of yourself won't do you any favors. You seem overly concerned with being lynched.

Retracting a vote on the second-highest wagon while you're the highest wagon is a bad idea because it puts you closer to being lynched? My hands are kind of tied right now in terms of possibly moving a vote, since there isn't another option right now.

1) But Elsa didn't "jump" onto any wagon -- she started the wagon in the first place. Why push Creature specifically instead of Dunn/Manatee when they had more votes than Creature at the time? If she wanted to push a mis-lynch, wouldn't she want to jump on one with more votes, especially since she thought she wouldn't have much time to do so?

2) So did Elsa's push only feel scummy after Creature posted? Sounds a lot like hindsight bias to me. You do realize that Elsa also unvoted after Creature posted as well, right? Your line of thinking seems pretty identical to Elsa's, so I don't get why you're scum-reading her for something you yourself have done.

Stop dodging my questions, please.

I... was actually unaware that Elsa started the creature wagon. I'll chalk that up to school, but that was an oversight on my part. So I guess you can ignore my case. I still don't really like her in this game, but I guess that's down to gut feeling status. Oh well.

[Lady Angel]

Town, lemme tell you about "The Elsa Garuntee"

1: I'm naturally suspicious. You all can see that. People Will ALWAYS find a reason to scumread me.
2: I purposely leave multiple reasons to scumread me and see who goes after what clue, and Perf went after the literally weakest clue.
3: That means hes either an open wolf who went for the juicy mislynch or he's a townie who'll hurt us in the long run if he's around day 2 and onward.

Dunn, even if he's a scum, will leave more clues to his partners alive then dead. Performer will hurt the town anyway.

Follow your heart and get rid of the plague that'll bear on us if we leave it for later. Cut the wounded limb at the source. We must make this town great again.

This logic is like robbing a bank and then blaming the police for catching you. Especially point 2.

I haven't really been able to make head or tail of either Dunnstral or Performer's wagon because there's so many posts to take in, so I'd be fine with whoever as long as Elsa dies tomorrow.

[Lady Angel]

UNVOTE:

Elsa's role is really anti-town, but at the same time the roles were randomized independantly of alignment, so it's statistically about as much chance to be scum as anything else. I don't think she should use it if she is town, though.

I honestly barely have an idea of what's going on in this game anymore but I've been trying to follow as much as I can. It's not going too well, I'm kind of hoping night gives me enough time to sit down and refresh myself.

[Lady Angel]

Prodging, sorry. School's kicking me in the teeth and I've been focussing on my own game.

I think Ruby Red is town, and I would also townread MariaR and Carcalilly. I like their contributions and their logic is easy enough to follow.

I'm not even sure who I'd vote for right now, I'm sorry I'm not more useful...

[Lady Angel]

Should I just vote somewhere?

[Lady Angel]

Should I just vote somewhere?

What are your reads like right now? Voting will help for sure

I think Ruby, Maria, Carcalilly, and you are probably town.

Elsa's the most likely player here to be scum. I'd vote her, but there's no steam on her and there's no way to move a wagon onto her with less than a day to go. I'd probably vote Dunnstral since at least a few players think he and Elsa are scum together, so...

VOTE: Dunnstral

[Lady Angel]

I come home from school every day to about three new pages. I know sort of what's going on, but I'm not confident in my ability to figure stuff out on day 1 and don't really have the time to actually go in super deep right now.

I think it was either Ruby, Purrcocet, or both that said the thing about you and Elsa. It might've been 20 pages back by this point, I really haven't kept track of this game as well as I should have.

[Lady Angel]

And since

ROLES CAN APPEAR MORE THAN ONCE

I believe

ANOTHER VANILLA COP SHOULD NOT CC

if one exists.

CARCA IS NOT VANILLA

How do you know this?

[Lady Angel]

Did I miss something? If Almost actually cop claimed there wouldn't he have done it out of the gate instead of trying to push the "Only one VT" line?

[Lady Angel]

Did I miss something? If Almost actually cop claimed there wouldn't he have done it out of the gate instead of trying to push the "Only one VT" line?

Why would I claim out of the gate if I haven't located the real VT yet?

Didn't you say yesterday you were the real VT?

[Lady Angel]

It makes sense now, I believed A50 at face value yesterday.

I would like to hear from Carcalilly before the hammer happens, though.

[Lady Angel]

@Almost50

Couldn't she have done the exact same thing you just did? What makes you claiming VT and then not being VT different from her?

[Lady Angel]

I didn't believe a50 because Carcalilly did nothing last night, which makes me think she was VT.

[Lady Angel]

I tracked a VT claim day 1 because I thought I would learn if anyone targeted her...

You can all crucify me now, that was extremely stupid of me.

[Lady Angel]

why would scum!me admit to this and not take the A50 route with my reasoning (Didn't think she was VT)? If I were scum, couldn't I have asked my buddies for confirmation instead of going public with my mistake, when my head was already somewhat on the table and doing this would just put me more into the fire?

Even I'm not that dumb.

I'm sorry for not proofreading my role but doing the stuff I needed to do to graduate came first, and that got lost in the shuffle.

[Lady Angel]

But it's an Open Modular Setup. Watcher isn't one of those options. She basically lied about both ways looking at it.

So why would I lie about thinking I was a watcher instead of a tracker, given how easily it would be to debunk wether I'm a watcher or not? If you think I'm lying about assuming I'm a watcher, why would I have gone with that instead of saying I didn't think Carcalilly was actually the VT and got a result that confirmed that she possibly was?

What strategic purpose does making up this story serve as any alignment?

[Lady Angel]

If lady thought she was a watcher why would she watch the VT claim. Makes no sense

Because I mentioned more than once yesterday that she was one of my top townreads?

[Lady Angel]

Talk me through your rationale to watching Lady over say, Ruby or myself or Maria? @Lady

At the end of day 1, Carca was one of the most heavily TRed players in the game and my own top TR, meaning while I thought I was a watcher I was going to watch her in case she got killed.

[Lady Angel]

If lady thought she was a watcher why would she watch the VT claim. Makes no sense

Because I mentioned more than once yesterday that she was one of my top townreads?

Let's be very calm and logical. Whether you TR her is irrelevant. Watcher would want to catch someone in action. You watch someone who is likely to be investigated, protected or NK'd. That way you identify the Cop(s), Jailleeper or Scum.

A VT is unlikely to be visited by a Cop (after all the Neapolitan was lynched already) and unlikely to be protected (why would the JK protect a VT? Maybe they would BLOCK them if they thought they're lying), and Scum certainly don't want to waste their NK on a VT.

So, even if I buy that you thought you're a Watcher it still doesn't make sense that you targeted Carca of all.

Now that I'm fully awake I decided to skim your ISO, and this is what I found:

I think Ruby Red is town, and I would also townread MariaR and Carcalilly.

So, RUBY RED was your top TR (judging by the phrasing) followed by Maria & Carca.

Now tell me again why did you "Watch" Carca and not Ruby?

Because Carca was a claimed player who I TRed that I thought would've given a more interesting result?

@Elsa: Scum have daytalk in this game, as confirmed by the OP. What kind of scumteam would greenlight this or at least not remind me that I'm a tracker and not a watcher?

[Lady Angel]

Lady you don't have to try to convince me anymore. You are 100% scum in my mind until your hung or NKed. I'm ignoring any other argument you got for you being town.

VOTE: Elsa Jay

If you won't even bother with reason maybe you'll bother with this? This makes it sound like you just want me to be scum rather than actually having a case.

[Lady Angel]

The fact you took so long to vote me is actually shocking. I've been pushing your death for the last 24 hours atleast. But you havent cased me yet or written out why I'm scum. This is still a vote of passion from you, you know.

Get a good essay about why I'm scum so on the 1 % chance you flip town you fuck town one more time with your game plan. You've clearly fucked up already, what's one more?

Wow, that last sentence was completely uncalled for. I made a mistake and felt bad about it, and now you do this?

You're scum because town doesn't stick their fingers in their ears and refuse to interact with people during days while still insinuating that you're right. You're scum because you've tried to take the easy lynch nearly every single time. You're scum because your arguments mostly all boil down to "They're scum because I say so and I'm right". You're scum because you decided to take one small thing that happened and blow it up and when an argument was presented that you couldn't break you decided to stop listening then move into ad hominem.

[Lady Angel]

Lady you don't have to try to convince me anymore. You are 100% scum in my mind until your hung or NKed. I'm ignoring any other argument you got for you being town.

VOTE: Elsa Jay

If you won't even bother with reason maybe you'll bother with this? This makes it sound like you just want me to be scum rather than actually having a case.

What are your reads? And why didn't you track me , for instance?

Townreads:
- Maria
- The Worst
- Purrcocet
- Chara

Null:
- Snowman
- Performer
- Alonzo

Probably mutually exclusive to each other:
- Almost50
- Carcalilly slot

Scum:
- Kokichi
- Elsa

So my scumteam would be Elsa/Kokichi/one of a50 and Carcalilly slot.

And as I explained before, I tracked Carcalilly thinking I was watching Carcalilly because she was a claimed PR who I townread pretty solidly, and I wanted to see what would happen to her, if anything.

[Lady Angel]

Voting a fake TPR claim is simple. She wanted to be a watcher but went "oopsie" and is trying to pass it off as a town mistake. It's so obvious it hurts.

Yes, because ad hominem and and weird whispery shit while not reading anything I say is a great way to make people go to your side...

And once again,

if I were scum wouldn't I have gone over this plan with the other scum players?

You're basically saying for me to be scum two other people would have to a) let me fake tracker who thought she was a watcher or b) two other people would have had to make the exact same mistake I did. Not that you're going to read or respond to this, but don't you realize how unlikely that is?

[Lady Angel]

This game has been a train wreck on my end, and it's taught me that I clearly shouldn't be in more than one large theme at a time. I guess the only thing I can really keep saying is that I'm not scum but I don't blame anyone for lynching me at this point.

Anyways, I'm going to full claim before I shove my foot in my mouth even further...

In addition to being a tracker, I drew the loved and conditional modifiers as well. Loved is self-explanatory but my condition is that if I get targeted during the night at any point by scum, I die. I'm aware that claiming this in-thread is suicide but I honestly deserve to die in this game at this point and I'm at least trying to make sure it's not a mislynch. If you guys don't believe this, please lynch one of Elsa/Kokichi/a50 tomorrow, unless Carca's slot flips scum in which case a50 is probably fine. I really don't see a world where I share an alignment in this game with Elsa or one of a50/Carca slot.

I was trying to hide it by lurking but then I thought I had something and that led to this disaster. Hopefully I don't make a mistake this dumb again.

[Lady Angel]

@a50 that is correct. I can target a scum player and track them with no reprecussions, but I die if I get targeted by any action from a player that isn't town-aligned at any point.

[Lady Angel]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Almost50

I understand that my handling of the situation was godawful, but the fact that this whole thing was faked makes me feel like you were fishing for someone to push an easy lynch on. You never really commented on anyone else's reaction to it either, not even the fact that most everyone seemed to sheep you despite it being fake - shouldn't that be cause for concern?