Limbo l Victory!

[Chara]

i think whether toxic goo claims should be up to toxic goo.

[Chara]

VOTE: Dunnstral
statistically? scum.

[Chara]

VOTE: Dunnstral
statistically? scum.

If either of u rolled mafia this game your death is assured

<3

when the highest EV tactic is unclear (claiming toxic goo and making it absolutely useless, or hiding toxic goo and risking some accidental murder), i like to pick the fun option.

[Chara]

VOTE: Dunnstral
statistically? scum.

If either of u rolled mafia this game your death is assured

<3

when the highest EV tactic is unclear (claiming toxic goo and making it absolutely useless, or hiding toxic goo and risking some accidental murder), i like to pick the fun option.

Stop hydra slipping! Please post from the HYDRA account.

you changed the password to make me look bad, didn't you. what is it?!

[Chara]

Another thing, maybe town members could be poisoned in a single night versus only 1 mefia member (its very rare to have 2 abilites targetting the same person from mefia). It could be more devastating than "fun"

you aren't wrong.

[Chara]

that was interesting.
and hello to you too, Kokichi.

don't remember Joey having anything specific against mechanics. in Civilization he was very heavily keeping track of claims and role interactions.
also it's been the topic so i don't see why the Joey focus specifically.

[Chara]

too late!

[Chara]

i wonder if

this

game will solve the old 'can Maria and Dunn read each other' debate.
most games i remember with both of them where they weren't hydraed had them as opposite alignments.

VOTE: Almost

[Chara]

VOTE: Dunnstral

[Chara]

VOTE: Almost
sick, so sheeps ahoy. Almost's case is compelling.

[Chara]

VOTE: Creature
going back to bed. ha.

[Chara]

what is? that i typed the wrong name the first time?

[Chara]

i'd never lynch him before he's posted.
i will, however, wagon the heck out of him.

Maria town i believe. i'll go back to it.

pedit: not actually compelling. Creature's meta is just incredibly easy. not opposed to wagoning him to see if he does post.

[Chara]

also did miss that Elsa voted Creature first. just saw Almost's post on the subject. sorry Elsa.

[Chara]

also Almost shading you as Creature's partner will never matter unless Creature flips scum. so you should be fine! <3

[Chara]

it was a joke, from your perspective if he's town you don't need to worry about being his partner, and if he's scum then lynching him is a good thing anyway.

leaving Dunn wagon was related to Dunn.

[Chara]

hi Creature!

[Chara]

UNVOTE:

[Chara]

i'm obvtown as scum too, ask Maria and Almost.

Creature so far looks good, so i unvoted.
don't expect me to effort until i'm feeling better.

[Chara]

First impression of Dunn was that his "toxic goo and VT should claim" entrance would be pretty forward coming from scum. I thought his Maria vote was fine but his later "Maria's claim is convenient" post and later backtracking was less so. Still could see Dunn being town here, but both of Manetee's posts are drenched in scum.

VOTE: ManateeDude

i'm wondering where you got AI information from Manatee's posts this game. half of your evidence (this a 2-post joke) needs to assume Dunn town but it doesn't sound like you're assuming that.

[Chara]

why is 291 such unhelpful shade Purr?

[Chara]

Snowman: mech talk is actually in Joey's town range.
231 is a post i don't agree with the logic of but find kind of towny.

[Chara]

VOTE: chara this is awkward

you haven't answered either me or Almost about why this is.

speaking of: Almost, i'm really not feeling this game right nown i need a bit. let's pretend to be hydraed for day 1. we can read each other day 2 onward. :>

[Chara]

VOTE: chara this is awkward

you haven't answered either me or Almost about why this is.

speaking of: Almost, i'm really not feeling this game right now. i need a bit. let's pretend to be hydraed for day 1. we can read each other day 2 onward. :>

EBWOP

[Chara]

i'd also like to know about the Purr townread from Carca.

and Purr right now i'm not impressed. your Almost scumread is really just "i've never played with Almost before, but i'll make assumptions about it because that's easier." which really could come from scum or town for that first time, to be fair.

[Chara]

agree that Manatee feels kind of towny but it's not a strong read.
didn't like Snowman at first but that's my usual reaction to his style of player. really he's fine.

[Chara]

I'm more annoyed that for the most part he's offered even less than the rest of the prod dodgers.

I'd also not be surprised if one of Almost50 and Purrcocet flipped red, but that's just a gut thing so don't trust it too much.

technically you have done more than Manatee, the 'more' being this gut read and your other gut read, both of which you stated you had very little confidence in the same posts they appeared in.

this game isn't exactly the pinnacle of activity right now, but sighing at Manatee isn't going to do much for that.

[Chara]

regarding Purr: i might be biased considering Purr's aggressive open this game, which consisted of implying Dunn and i are scum based on a recent game.
and then Dunn shades Purr in 280, Purr responds by again bringing up the game where he was right, as though having good reads in a previous game somehow proves Purr is town here?

and his reads there were based on a game's worth of wagons, not to mention he came in during LyLo where 5 of the 11 living players were scum. rolling in on day 1 the way Purr has with that attitude of theirs in mind just makes me want to BoP them, which makes this lackluster opening even more glaring to me.

[Chara]

to clarify, the above post is in no way saying Purr didn't do a good job of finding us all in the last game. it has everything to do with the way Purr has applied it to this game.

[Chara]

Snowman: here is the game i'm referring to that just finished.
and sort of. if it had been just that it would have been nothing, but Purr's later posts to Dunnstral about catching scum that i mentioned are more what i was referring to. and statements like the one in 253. it doesn't feel like Purr's reading

this

game except for where their Almost read is concerned.

[Chara]

Anyone scumreading carca might be scum if they've played with her before lol

i've never played with her before. is her meta very relevant?

[Chara]

esp manatee who is the biggest lynchbait in this game rn

i might agree with this. expecting every player to have the same opinion, though?

if i said you were boasting i apologize. i don't think i did though.

what's the reason you don't want to wagon scum Dunn?

[Chara]

Anyone scumreading carca might be scum if they've played with her before lol

i've never played with her before. is her meta very relevant?

Yes. I think her post claiming VT lies in her town meta

thanks for reminding me she claimed VT there, i had her as town for that and then forgot.

still would like an answer though, Carca!

and Purr: was just my impression about the push. like i said i might be biased about it.

[Chara]

Manatee has actually given some reads i could see coming from town.
Lady Angel on the other hand?

[Chara]

Manatee's townreading Almost and Nos and presumably scumreading Dunnstral.

i don't like that post from Lady because she's one of those prod dodgers that hasn't offered anything, so it doesn't really ring genuine to me.

[Chara]

lurker style for the purpose of... being a very boring slot? alright then. do you have a habit of being mislynched a lot, or something?

[Chara]

your votejumps were a little redicilus and your use of Mafia-esque terms are awkward and almost lamisty

it wasn't a vote jump. i meant to type Creature in the first post and then corrected it in the second.

the rest is eh. i get it. what do you think of my other posts that were

not

made while i was severely sleep-deprived?

[Chara]

:/
thanks.

[Chara]

the fact that no one has pressured Nos to content-post makes me think it's not AI and he's just aware of his being busy.
kind of tempted to just lynch Elsa but i don't think he's doing anything AI.

[Chara]

you did. can't wait!

[Chara]

VOTE: Lady Angel

[Chara]

actually i could also just lynch Elsa. there are some players who don't get into their groove until later days, but Elsa is kind of just... doing so on purpose, and i would love to discourage that.

[Chara]

thanks Elsa.

i'm going to find Almost difficult to read in general until he throws himself into this game.

[Chara]

VOTE: Lady Angel

the height of my charisma is... a naked vote?
curious you mentioned me there, Elsa. unless you mean what i've said on Lady earlier?

[Chara]

UNVOTE:
Lady looks like town.

[Chara]

"predecessor scummy so lets lynch the slot"
wasnt this case used by at least 1 of your scum team members where YOU were scum there, in NY 215 hosted by Krazy?

pretending that the alignment of your slot pre-replacement isn't the same alignment it has now.
and to boot, attacking straightforward logic by mentioning it has been used before as scum where Purr was a member of that scumteam.

why are you town, again?

[Chara]

i don't know how to explain why 678 is wrong but it is and i'm townreading Dunnstral now, Maria is giving me some paranoia about her being scum.
sorry for really not putting in effort this game, i'm sure i'll pick it up soon.
will try to explain why i don't agree with the above post in the morning.

[Chara]

Charas stance feels like one scum with TMI on dunn would take.
So if Dunn flips scum I feel Chara is town
if Dunn flips town I'd look at Chara

kind of annoyed i'm not allowed to be right?

[Chara]

and me being town if Dunn flips scum is a strange thing to pull out of that.

but what do i know.
i'll probably like this game more when i have to chance to throw myself into it, but for now my opinion only goes so far as 'am i crazy or are Ruby and Performer both scummy, and why are so few others on top of that'.

[Chara]

Ruby and dun are pretty blatant town imo, mariar is being a cocky mf playing on words

talk to me about Ruby town and why Dunn is blatant town?
would help me out. :>

[Chara]

Maria, there has never been one game where i've said i find Almost easy to read.

[Chara]

i would vote Performer but Maria being there makes me nervous.
and Maria i want you to back up what you've said somehow, about my Dunnstral read and about my lack of an Almost one.

[Chara]

oh, and if you're town, i apologize for being short with you, and i would encourage you to think about how i behave when i'm really

not

feeling a game (like now) and why it isn't AI. if you're scum whatever, if we're both town i'd love to figure that out and not be snapping at you for the majority of the time.

[Chara]

Joey and Snowman are both town i believe. willing to answer the general Ruby is town consensus on the basis of Creature's posting and his replace-out being NAI. may just have a gut dislike of Ruby.

Performer is just scummy, however.
willing to put in the effort to really figure out Dunnstral beyond the mild townread i have now.

and Carca gets to be town because she is, and for that VT claim.

pedit: well fuck me then, i suppose. i don't think he is, though. in games that happened after Magical Girls i kept either being wrong about him or just being really paranoid of him.

[Chara]

that you can say both of those things but can't say definitively whether Dunnstral is scum or town is the problem, Maria.

[Chara]

if i'm naive town, why can't i be naive town who was just scum with Dunnstral and thinks this game looks different?

i'm pretty sure i've just been too exhausted to properly read and parse this entire game, so all i can do to get into it more is try harder. i do appreciate the offer, though.

and no, i probably can't, but i thought i'd try the appeal anyway. haha.

pedit: i know why, but then when you use a read you haven't outed to make a judgement on

me

it sets me off. i guess i understand how it came about, but it still frustrated me.

[Chara]

VOTE: Performer

[Chara]

i'm going to bed and haven't read half of these new pages,

but

i just wanted to say how lovely it is to see two wagons that are actually competing on what seems to be even ground. i feel like i don't see that enough.

[Chara]

it means they can't both be scum, for one.

[Chara]

which is your justification for why lynching Dunnstral and then Performer would be fine... except if Dunn actually flipped scum, you wouldn't see me on the Performer wagon again.

though i nees to actually look at the circumstances, as that's a very broad generalization based on the existence of the dueling wagons, that could be explained in another way based on who specifically is involved.
which may be fun to do tomorrow if neither is hammered, which would be preferable.

pedit: i need to see the posts. hold on.

[Chara]

a take: day 1 scum lynches are anti-town. ;>

[Chara]

catching scum and letting them live until endgame, because scum lynches are anti-town.

[Chara]

a take: day 1 scum lynches are anti-town. ;>

The only time you said that before -in my presence- was in Civilization.

i said it when i was scum in vonflare's laser tag game, too!

[Chara]

blatant

misrep. lynch Joey.

[Chara]

actually my favourite part about 887 is the implication that i wasn't actually scum in Civilization. that's simply how town i was.

pedit: i haven't yet Ruby, i got distracted because this is more fun. but i will.

[Chara]

I don't think I was in vonflare's game, was I?? OMG.. sometimes my brain gets jammed I feel really bad for myself! *Sigh*

But anyway, that's you doing it twice before, and you were scum on both occasions. Tell me why I should not lynch you tomorrow?

because i was town when i did it in Varsoon's Variety Hour?

[Chara]

i was scum in the vonflare game, scum in Civilization, and town here.

[Chara]

i'll never understand the simultaneous "i've crumbed my role so much, you should have figured it out" and "i won't claim". if it's really so easy, i think scum would have done it too.
and why would figuring it out get anyone townpoints?
of course, these are theoretical questions to be answered whenever Elsa's role is actually known. so.

also hi Alonzo!

[Chara]

UNVOTE:
so i've finally given Performer's ISO that nice secondary sweep...
and now i'm scumreading Almost. so, well. oops?

pedit: i was voting Performer because i found their entrance scummy, but now i am not.

[Chara]

Because I'm suspecting Chara???? What gives?

actually, that does depend on whether this was a joke or not. i kind of... can't tell, Almost.

[Chara]

Joey is my only uber townread and that disappoints me, because it's a matter of Joey just being really town and nothing to do with my skill this game.

pedit: hello, Snowman. are you still very sure on Performer scum?

and i found Carca's early VT claim to be really towny, and have stopped examing her posts too much as a result. she's not someone i'd want to lynch based on those posts, however.
and i'm someone who players will sometimes push or even vote based on "Chara hasn't obvtowned this game", and that remains a frustrating thing i would not want to do to Carca.

pedit: feel better Carcalilly!

[Chara]

Kokichi also gets a scumread, unless Dunnstral is scum. obviously.

[Chara]

this has nothing to do with Ruby's posting: anyone who is townreading Creature based on his meta isn't doing this right. he simply wasn't here long enough to even be able to make that judgement to begin with. Creature is capable of content-posting as scum for shorter lengths of time.
also 867 from Ruby is disingenuous.

[Chara]

i'm not really looking at that, Creature seemed to be having some real-life issues at the time that i've decided not to read as AI.

pedit: you're right in that he was within his scum meta. what i meant was the burst of content-posting wasn't consistent enough to be town Creature.
it's part of why i'm suspecting Almost.

[Chara]

joey are you trying to pocket me, why am i your top tr when i've done basically nothing

why, you mustve misread my list, the order didnt matter and the 1st group was my poe one, 2nd group my townread one.

i also misread your list. which is funny because it's how i tend to format my PoEs too.

and Kokichi: i was mainly gut scumreading you and not agreeing with your reads, but i like the post quoted here and the ones on this page. maybe back up to null, i don't know.

[Chara]

VOTE: Ruby Red

pedit: it's fine, really. i'm not giving this game as much as i should have, either. but let's all do our best! yay.

[Chara]

Anybody who sits in the back and cares more about lining up lynches than who we lynch today can be playing to scum wincon yeah

Says the player who just spewed 8 people as possible scum without making a real case on any of them, and hasn't done jack shit all game.

I'll happily and gracefully accept your login and declare YOU are "playing to scum wincon" so yeah!

'not doing jack shit all game' does... not apply to Dunnstral this game really at all.
Almost, are you just scum here? a lot of your posts are simply not good.

[Chara]

what you lack, Purr, is charisma.
and. you know. good reasons that i remember for Ruby being town.

Almost: that was an invitation for you to tell me why your posts aren't bad, or why you're making bad posts. one of the two.
but considering you haven't answered why you're scumreading me either, or if you even are... let's just say i'm not really holding out for an answer.

[Chara]

Chara I think I remember you saying you could read A50? What do you think if him this game

i can't read him that well as it turns out. but i'm not townreading him this game.

[Chara]

town Chara is, surprisingly, not a robot, and i don't blindly townread you unless you're doing something i think town you would do.
i had reasons for townreading you every time i have. including when i was wrong, i still had reasons.

[Chara]

the

only

reason i was able to confidently call you town in our last game together was because you floated the plan of lynching yourself to prove your trustworthiness, and meant it. before that i townread you for the way you threw yourself into your hunting. you haven't done anything similar in this game.
i don't just blanket townread you, Almost. this is a ridiculous assertion and i don't know any way to take it besides you misrepresenting my meta.

pedit: thank you, Elsa. and i actually didn't see that.

[Chara]

oh right, Joey figured out your ninja crumb.
don't really know what to do with that information myself. does it even have town utility?

[Chara]

That ruby wagon is gross.
Also ruby is trying so they're town

Do you have meta to support this? What do you think of dunn actually trying this game

Ruby either lurks or outright subs out as scum.
Dunn trying isn't really AI for him anymore he's tried as scum and town before

do you have games for this?

[Chara]

Might as well full claim it then, since I'm basically a Miller with my role. I'm a Ninja Lawyer. I make people look innocent/vanilla to our cops and make it look like they didnt visit anyone to the tracker/follower.

I can actually prove myself though and I will target you I guess Chara. And ONLY the Vanilla Cop should check you. Because unless your also claiming VT this will 100% confirm my ability, at least. You'll show up as vanilla. Garunteed.

i'm not sure you should be using this at all. are you compulsive?
confirming your ability doesn't really say anything about your alignment. it's just a.. very anti-town power.

[Chara]

Almost: i really don't remember what i read you as when i was scum in Danganronpa, but in Civilization i absolutely townread you. so where are you even getting that meta from? we have all of two games where i was scum.

[Chara]

Well that's why I'd rather it be confirmed it's my power, plus it confirms what is very much the weakest investigative we got IMO.

I wont use it after night 2 unless people want me to confirm a green goo. I can deal without having this ability.

your role doesn't really do anything for us. i would suggest not using it at all. it's such a scummy claim that i believe it's your real power anyway.

[Chara]

Ruby either lurks or outright subs out as scum.

I'm calling you out - that's untrue.

Please provide links to backup your claim

Back up yours to disprove me.

you're the one who made the claim.
if it's true, you can stop a mislynch by posting some proof.

[Chara]

i only found one completed scum game for Ruby.
they replaced out before the game was finished but seemed to have been playing the game just fine for some time before that.

[Chara]

i only found one completed scum game for Ruby.

they replaced out

before the game was finished but seemed to have been playing the game just fine for some time before that.

Ruby sure did replace out as scum.
on day 4.

peditv: Purr could you quote or explain why Ruby is town? you keep insulting the intelligence of other players or outright yelling at people, but i asked you for this already and was met with nothing.

[Chara]

If none of you can see Ruby is town by now, outing their main isn't going to make you any less stupid

actually, regardless of your alignment i'm just very sick of your attitude here. it goes beyond insulting the player and is just annoying to play with.
you can keep screaming Ruby is obvtown and that everyone who doesn't agree is an idiot, or you can try and actually do something with that read that will matter.

[Chara]

ridiculous

VOTE: ruby red

All it takes is some color text for u dummies to vote town ?

Give me 20 minutes and a kit kat and i bet i can convince you the earth is flat too

RUBY RED IS OBVTOWN OMFG. I CANT BELIEVE U FUCKS

If none of you can see Ruby is town by now, outing their main isn't going to make you any less stupid

it's a very well-researched towncase, Purr, but i think i'm simply too stupid to get on your level. you should try making more of these posts, though. they're very good.

pedit: i'm also townreading Purr in spite of myself, Dunn.

[Chara]

you haven't done anything similar in this game

Which tells you what exactly?? (Do NOT answer in public. I want you to answer it to yourself.)

i already did when you told me to the first time. you're neither getting a wagon or a townread from me.
now stop misrepresenting my meta and we can get on with things, how about that?

[Chara]

Do people really not believe me when I say I just don't remember it?

i believe it.

i doubt anyone remembers who i slipped as once.

pedit: thank you Performer.

[Chara]

we don't need to out any mains anyway. i just brought up a game where Ruby didn't lurk.
they did replace out but it was on day 4. we're in day 1 so it is no where near correct to say that Ruby can't be scum here because they haven't replaced.

[Chara]

this is one of those situations where i want to vote Dunnstral so he can flip town and i can be right.
it's win/win because if i'm wrong we still get a scumflip.

the fact that this has occurred to me at all is my cue to leave the thread for a bit.
Purr thank you for finally saying something coherent about Ruby being town. i don't really agree with the emotional aspect however, i'm not seeing it. and what makes the Dunnstral read particularly genuine for you?

[Chara]

Almost: i really don't remember what i read you as when i was scum in Danganronpa, but in Civilization i absolutely townread you. so where are you even getting that meta from? we have all of two games where i was scum.

No you didn't. You kept saying things like I'm not sure, or I can't guarantee my read is correct all the time. You wanted to keep me withing the lynch pool.. just outside but within range. You even ignored a crumb that Town you would have never missed in Civilization. I mean NEVER would have missed.

to be fair, i wasn't trying to keep you in the lynch pool. i never considered mislynching you. it was actually an attempt to look like my town meta of being paranoid of you.
we nightkilled you because you weren't mislynchable.

i'd be frustrated that one post you point out as even a little towny from me is a very obvious mechanics post that i don't consider AI from myself in the least... but it's also very in-character for you to look to posts like that.

pedit: she did already claim ascetic.

[Chara]

:/

i hate this game. Purr's post on Ruby Red is exactly what i wanted from them.

[Chara]

Vote: Performer

FOS koki

I think you misspelled performer. Because if you actually FOS'd me, you'd be voting me. Why do you scumread me?

i feel it's obvious that these posts say he's scumreading Performer more, and is also suspicious of you.
so i don't know what you're saying with the first two sentences of this post.

[Chara]

Purr: i may have missed where Dunnstral is lying?

[Chara]

Maria, Snowman, Angel: thoughts on Dunnstral, Ruby, and Performer?
i don't believe Alonzo will be lynched today with the time we have, unless you have a really stellar case. and i believe now would be a good time for you to out your Dunnstral read, Maria. otherwise we won't have time to actually use it for the lynch.

[Chara]

well it certainly isn't accurate.

i did also have the problem of Ruby saying "it's fine let's lynch Performer later" while townreading them, but i've seen town throw out phrases like that when they're just really concerned with getting their scum lynched.

i'm still concerned with Maria's read on Dunnstral more than anything.

[Chara]

i did also have the problem of Ruby saying "it's fine let's lynch Performer later" while townreading them, but i've seen town throw out phrases like that when they're just really concerned with getting their scum lynched.

yeah it was straight up a lie to get people to vote with me

UNVOTE:

ok, not voting Ruby. i should have unvoted earlier, honestly, but. hindsight.
23 hours.

[Chara]

VOTE: Alonzo

[Chara]

UNVOTE:
actually no.

i don't want to vote Dunnstral without Maria signing off on it because she has a great track record of reading him.

pedit: hm. i don't know the count but that's where i'm leaning. and no, i'm not happy about it.

peditx2: i don't know about Alonzo as you'll see above.

[Chara]

why'd you have to make 1313? it's pinging me.
i'll note that but still going to go with Purr's townread on you.

[Chara]

sorry to see you go, Joey. good luck.

[Chara]

a Dunnstral townflip is better than a no lynch in nearly any universe this game.
just when comparing those two things.

pedit to Ruby: hm. i'll note that for tomorrow too, then.

and. apologies. you certainly are.

[Chara]

my mind would very much like to be anxious about the outcome of the lynch, because right now it doesn't look great.
in the grand scheme of things, however... does it really matter?

[Chara]

if you care about winning the game it does

of course i care. no reason to be anxious about it irl, however.

and one mislynch day 1 isn't going to kill us. in fact as i've previously jokingly argued... day 1 scum lynches are anti-town.

not that i want a mislynch.
but the votecount tells me a few things. for one, i'm having difficulty imagining a world where Dunnstral is scum while Maria is town. so either they're both scum, or just Maria is.
or she's town and having a difficult time catching Dunnstral scum this time around, but that she's actively avoiding outing her read to see how others react to the Dunn wagon tells me this one is very unlikely.

and so the end result is... i'd like to lynch Maria in spite of the good feelings i had from her when we spoke directly.

but that doesn't seem viable today. i no longer want Ruby lynched, but i'm paranoid that Purr is just wrong and Ruby is simply being charismatic in a way i like right now.
paranoia is not often correct for me, so i'll discard that and call Ruby town for those things, because i

am

fairly confident Purr is town.

so that would lead to.
VOTE: Dunnstral

pedit: is Ruby's wagon being resisted that fiercely?

[Chara]

continuing on about Ruby's wagon being resisted: i don't know if this is a good avenue to explore

yet

, because of the sheer number of factors. Ruby's lynch wagon might seem inevitable to avoid a no lynch, in the eyes of scum, so they're happy with things and some of them are already there. they might be trying to avoid clumping.
i don't like "this wagon is being resisted" arguments in general because i've seen them often employed situationally to argue for whatever lynch that player wants and is already pursuing, but hasn't quite gotten yet.

and the degrees of resistance are very relative. with some flips it may be good to look at later but i'm not interested in it day 1.

[Chara]

VOTE: DUNNSTRAL

We get it, you don't want Dunn alive... But really. This is what you do?

you may be the funniest player in this game, outside of Almost, to make this post.

[Chara]

moving chara to town btw for the irl anxious thing, i felt the exact same way this game and even messaged ag to just vent about it

{kokichi, lady angel, RUBYRED, purr, carca, perf, chara}
{maria, joey, snowman, A50}
{elsa, dunn, alonzo}

this is a town post too.

[Chara]

Yeah, but if Dunn is above him, by definition you'd rather hang Alonzo.

pedantic.

and they're the same tier.

[Chara]

it's ordered vertically. where some player is in the tier doesn't matter. that's what Ruby is saying.

and this is, again, pedantic. unless you think the way Ruby's readslist is formatted is some kind of scumslip that contradicts the very vocal scumread she has on Dunnstral.

[Chara]

Well I always put it left = less scummy then people further down then the right.

You don't do the same?

this is literally the definition of disingenous. obviously she doesn't, i feel like you know that.

[Chara]

I'm a Roleplayer and I roled Lawyer. What

elsa

did you expect?

[Chara]

Chara did I mention you're off my christmas card list?

i didn't realize i was in your good books to begin with. :>

[Chara]

i don't know why i said "someone i thought was town" when in my mind what i was saying was "chara"

I love Chara and want to talk to it soon
Based on reactions to my rep in my brain was like "jfc are there like 30 wolves ITT rn" so I need some townreads

I guess reading rvs is probably prudent for that, lmk if there's particular stuff I should look out for

this is how you pocket me.

[Chara]

you do remind me of a good point, ducky.
i don't know if scum Almost antagonizes me on purpose. which, if he were scum, he would be doing with my slot with how he's treated it so far.
that's easier to see when i've distanced myself from my own emotional react to it from the other day.

[Chara]

well, keep reading.
this has been kind of a negative game for me for the most part. just moreso than usual. and i'm pretty sure that's on me and no one else.
i have work in the morning or i'd stick around while you continue to catch up.

[Chara]

no, i said i would wagon him but wouldn't let the wagon hit a lynch before actually seeing him post.

[Chara]

also are we playing Ace Attorney?

open my psyche-locks next. :>

[Chara]

"Let's hang Elsa. Oops, they were exactly what they said they were. How about Dunn? Ah, he flipped town. Guess we can fall back on that Performer/Almost Lynch. Well fuck."

why are Performer and Almost together?

[Chara]

carcalilly is the most obv town player in existence besides nancy drew probably

she claimed vanilla. she's the only one a vanilla cop would bother checking.

[Chara]

i really like this set of avatars, Maria and Dunn.

[Chara]

@Chara: And now.. do you still wonder why I was questioning your play around me? WHAT ROLE DO I DESPISE THE MOST?

i'll admit this possibility didn't occur to me.

[Chara]

is that for the VT claim or something else, Almost?

[Chara]

VOTE: Maria

[Chara]

i might be being unfair with that vote but i'd like to see what she says.
Performer is in my scumlist again too. not really sure why i townread that ISO.

[Chara]

is that for the VT claim or something else, Almost?

It is. I believe the way Anon responded is an implicit guilty. There's no way a mod can't confirm any given role can appear more than once. A mod can't confirm the role only appears once though because that's explicitly telling me Carca's lying.

hm. i don't really agree. i think Anon would have prepared how she would respond to that question beforehand.

[Chara]

and if i'm not mistaken, this is a 14-player game with 10 possible power roles, not including vanilla townies and not including modifiers.

[Chara]

we've seen from Ruby and Dunnstral's flip that multiple modifiers are possible. Ruby had two modifiers, Dunnstral had none. so from that alone we can conclude that Anon isn't allowing only one of each modifier in the game. since the possible number of roles vs. the number of players doesn't match, overlap has to happen somewhere.
i think with all of that information, the conclusion that you two are CCing each other is wrong.

[Chara]

I don't care what it is anymore. I am on 100% tunnel mode and I won't back off.

you'd better care Almost. :> more town tunneling town is going to run this game right into a loss.

[Chara]

I will have to refer you to the rules again:

"In general: if a question would break the game or implicate another player's role"

Now ask yourself: Would my question "break" the game?? I don't think it will. So, the only remaining option is it

implicates another player's role

and i would like to point you to Anon's wording.
"in general", meaning this is true

most

of the time but could potentially not be true.

pedit: i think a Ruby mislynch would have been unlikely.

[Chara]

to add: your interpretation, Almost, would mean that Anon had generated unique role/modifier combinations such that it would be fine for an X-shot Lawyer and a Percentage Lawyer to both exist, but that two of the same exact role (in this case an unmodified VT) to be disallowed.
why would the game be designed in this way?

[Chara]

VOTE: Maria

If you seriously think I am scum with how I did everything to avoid the dunn wagon I have nothing to tell you

if you had just said "Dunnstral is town, don't vote there" i never would have, and there are other players who would have followed that. you even said you were avoiding saying so explicitly to read the wagon, but when it gets to the point where Dunn would be lynched i feel like you should have just said something.

[Chara]

VOTE: Dunn
You don't tunnel this hard as town you're not that big a monkey.

And if you are town I can really not give a fuck at this point

and it's fine if you weren't sure. but doing this and then saying you "did everything to avoid the Dunn wagon"?
why are you claiming credit for a townread you never adequately expressed?

[Chara]

Like I knew Dunn was town period. A50 even called me out on taking shots at dunn but never voting him because I didn't want him lynched. I didn't vote besides once when I got pissed. That. Was. For. A. Reason.

i just wish you'd said something earlier. 24 hours to deadline when it had already been extended twice really isn't enough time.

[Chara]

VOTE: Performer
was struggling with my Dunn townread all day and hoping for you to shed some light on it, but you never ended up doing so and when you did intend to do so was really last minute. of course i would wonder why, try and see it from my perspective here. i know you can read him well and asked for that.

[Chara]

@Chara: Maybe they can only appear as different alignments.

that's also an assumption about the setup.
it's something i'd listen to with flips to back it up, not a theory based on your perception of how Anon would choose to answer questions.

and Carca's VT claim was very town, though that's besides my point.

[Chara]

Almost is town, though.
why are you scumreading him?

[Chara]

in hindsight Alonzo's post about both Ruby and Dunnstral being towny and his attempts to explore other wagons is something that i just want to townread.

[Chara]

Maria, where were you going to tell everyone to pile on when you said Dunnstral was town?

[Chara]

Almost, i have no idea what's going on with you this game besides the VT thing. seriously. after this game i need you to tell me what part of that got it into your head that i'm scum because i'm just about done right now.

[Chara]

and another thing: honestly

really

tired of you BoPing me and expecting me to understand your thought process all the time just because we've discussed these things before. of course i remember you hate VT. of course i remember how you do things. i'm not a computer who can access all of the information i've ever absorbed every time i try to play with you. the fact that you're VT helped me with reading you but no, it didn't occur to me before you said it.

you've shown that you're town so i can speak like this (mostly) without worry that you're scum and i'm making a fool of myself.
and it's not like you can read me perfectly either.

pedit: okay, that does explain a bit better but i'm not going to erase what i said before, though i see that it's not entirely applicable to your scumread.

i just think your logic is off with Carca.

and trust me when i say that if Maria and i were partners i would not be doing this bullshit theatre with her. it's genuinely really frustrating to be playing this game with two good friends and to be clashing with them the entire time. i wouldn't choose to do this as scum.

[Chara]

VOTE: Carca
ugh.

[Chara]

V/LA for two days, i need to stop reading this for a while. it's just a game.

[Chara]

Carca not showing up is damning

this post is kind of scummy regardless of Carca's flip.

[Chara]

Almost is scum for outing ...town

??

what do you mean by "outing"?
if Carca's a player who gambits as PR by claiming VT at the beginning of the game, where there's a Neapolitan/Vanilla Cop, by all means tell me about it, but i find it unlikely.

Almost also gambited, but i do see where his came from.

[Chara]

And since

ROLES CAN APPEAR MORE THAN ONCE

I believe

ANOTHER VANILLA COP SHOULD NOT CC

if one exists.

CARCA IS NOT VANILLA

How do you know this?

ftr this is scum lol

this isn't a town reaction to a possible guilty.

on the other hand Lady is also scummy, and i don't see Kokichi as a partner there.

[Chara]

Personal opinion incoming, but 3 v 11 seems more lopsided then it should be. The 1 extra person from a mini makes this seem... Less fair.

Anyone elsa think that?

should a miller be thinking this about the setup he doesn't know?

[Chara]

I'm talking about the confirmed part after I fucked up and assumed there could be an SK earlier.

mind rewording this?
what do mean by the confirmed part?

[Chara]

and no one explained the benefit of Scum!Carca claiming VT D1

i guess there isn't one, huh. especially if she isn't a goon, which she would be if scum. it begs an investigation, which would be odd.

do you think Almost was the scum that hit Ruby last night?

[Chara]

Carca not showing up is damning

this post is kind of scummy regardless of Carca's flip.

How? Shes not posting.

she isn't. she could just not be around as either alignment.
i don't know, i found your reaction to Almost's claim to be kind of strange considering your Carca townread. why don't you think Almost is lying?

[Chara]

Chara you and worts are sort of the only people who I trust besides absent Carca. I don't think Almost is making a town play here?

can you tell me about your experience with Almost? i'm definitely open to discussion about it.

he has a good scumgame, i'm aware of that. and he does things as town that don't always make sense at face value, too.
if Carca's town, it would make my first thought that she shouldn't have claimed VT as a PR with a vanilla cop in the game.
Almost doing so was also risky, but less so as he was a cop himself and planned to check Carca, and claimed VT to avoid the nightkill. in spite of not being widely townread, if Almost thought he was giving PR vibes i could see him doing that.

[Chara]

Carca's meta isn't something i have major experience with. but i did note both Kokichi and i think Purr saying that this is her town meta and out of her scumrange. and no, i don't know why scum Carca would claim like she did.
the most i got out of this was that Kokichi's actions regarding the Carca guilty are pretty suspect.

taking Almost's play in this game as a whole, i would call him town more often than not. there's scum utility to plenty of things he's done (including to just look town, and he could have done them specifically to fool me, it's worked in the past) but the emotional posts are something that for Almost i'd find harder for him to fake.

[Chara]

UNVOTE:
would like to discuss with ducky and Purr before i decide to do anything. they're also townreads.

[Chara]

the problem with scum Carca not having too many reasons to fakeclaim VT is that town Carca doesn't either.
and assuming Carca is town, i would first think that Almost is also town and got the result he did due to Carca's lying.

i understand scumreading him here, and this isn't even out of his scum range, but it's also squarely in his townrange. there's really no way i'd be alright lynching Almost today.

[Chara]

i don't know why i didn't mention this earlier, but scum possibly having a Lawyer is a good enough reason to claim VT.
so at this point i would see if we could rely on Carca's meta?

[Chara]

yes, it's a really strange follow/track target. were you scumreading Carcalilly?

[Chara]

and i'm going to echo the concern with Maria. though she doesn't seem to be paying too much attention at the moment.

[Chara]

Lady's progression on Carcalilly isn't good. she was townreading her, and also said she took Almost's VT claim at face value yesterday.
i don't see how this translates to Carca as a tracker/follow target from Lady.

[Chara]

Almost: i do want to hear from Carcalilly herself first.

and not sure about the Purr scumread. i do see the others, but considering Purr has no meta on you, their position on you doesn't surprise me and their behaviour/attitude in general looks like town who was wrong on Dunnstral moreso than scum.
granted i'm relying a little on ducky's townread in that direction.

i could see some combination of Maria/Lady/Kokichi/Carcalilly/possibly Elsa right now, though that's unanalyzed with regard to claims/their interactions with each other.

pedit: that may be, but i still want to see her reply.

[Chara]

because he complimented me.

[Chara]

who else isn't American but fully intends to be lazy during American Thanksgiving?
just me?

[Chara]

Ontario. :>

i don't feel pressed to come up with conclusions that may be invalidated by Carca/her replacement, so i'll wait for that.

[Chara]

Maria: when you do get some time, i'd like to hear about your Almost scumread.
right now my pseudo townblock is Purr/ducky/Almost, and i'm townreading Performer and Alonzo.

[Chara]

Performer, if you want to talk about why the worst is scum for you, i have time now.

[Chara]

Don't see the scum-motivation behind Almost's Neo claim, especially considering his VT claim D1. Even if he was poisoned and wanted to take someone down with him, A)Why choose Carca of all people B)Why not claim cop and site a hard guilty on her via cop C)Why backtrack from pushing Carca when he supposedly came out to get Carca lynched D)Why claim a role that's virtually identical to VC. Can't really see her coming out as scum to try and lynch Carca just to shift directions soon after.

A) as opposed to who?
B) this setup doesn't have an alignment cop.
C) because town Carca's lynch makes scum Almost look back, so he'd rather get another mislynch first.
D) because Nea and Vanilla Cop are both in the setup description as distinct roles.

and yes, i'm still townreading Almost. i think the only reason i'm making this post is because the logic in it (besides D, that one is actually fine) isn't all there.

[Chara]

do you think he's the type to fake an illness as scum to avoid posting?
and i'm not sure one night of surviving the nightkill is enough grounds for suspicion. there are too many reasons why he would have been avoided by the scum kill.
i didn't find Ruby a very odd kill, by the end of the day she was being townread pretty hard by a good number of players.

i think ducky's town because he replaced Joey, who was towny (though this fact is not reflected in the OP), and upon replacing in he made content posts that i liked.

[Chara]

ruby should never have been an nk last night compared to other people here
thinking its because someone knew his alt

so you think whoever did decide to kill Ruby was someone who knew her alt?
what about Maria?

and i'm interested in who you think would be a good kill target besides Ruby. it may be obvious but i want to hear your thinking.

[Chara]

that isn't a surprise. scum leave towny players who don't get scum lynched alive all the time. :>

[Chara]

Neapolitan, Vanilla Cop, Tracker, Follower. where's the alignment cop?

[Chara]

oh, i see. alignment cop is in the example role PMs but not in the turn order list.
never mind me. i didn't realize they were different.

[Chara]

Another point (not related to the above) is the Ruby Red's flip. It says 50% Toxic Goo. The Original/Sample role doesn't include such a %age. This leads me to believe either Scum also have a Toxic Goo (thus the probability split) or Town was deemed to be too strong for the Scum to handle with a typical Toxic Goo (one that would poison who targets them 100% of the Town).

this is in regards to the 50% modifier, what about the 1-shot and activated modifiers?
i don't think, at least, that the 50% thing indicates scum also would have a Toxic Goo, seeing as it's just another modifer from the list like activated and x-shot.

[Chara]

sorry for being prodded. Almost was fakeclaiming? i don't find it surprising, but what was your conclusion, Almost?

[Chara]

ok, fantastic. i don't like Lady Angel either. i do need to catch up, so i'll take a moment to do that.

Almost's gambit didn't hurt any PR actions since no nights went by, so i don't really see the issue.

[Chara]

rethought it and that lying was worse than the bad scumreads & super-cringe play from LA

why?

[Chara]

Chara might be town here btw

why did you think this?

[Chara]

i still scumread Kokichi but i don't know if i should. some of his opinions are good
i'm also scumreading Persivul in spite of his claim now checking out, so it's possible my radar is just busted at the moment.

[Chara]

VOTE: Snowman

[Chara]

i'd vote Lady Angel but it's fine to let her have another night to possibly do her thing.

Purr, why is Performer wolf pinging?
Alonzo still isn't scummy.

[Chara]

also why am I not townreading A50 at all and where is Chara

hi! sorry. i have exams.

[Chara]

i've got Alonzo, Purr, worst, Performer as townreads i like. Persivul doesn't get a townread but he

is

a VT claim and Lady has her result. but scumpings for Lady, with the caveat that if she's scum she screwed up her claim.
Almost is a special case, but i certainly don't want him lynched. i've decided to stand by my town judgement even though i'm not feeling it so much, since i was at the time and i'm a little disengaged.

don't ask about Maria.

the rest are all slots i'd be alright lynching today, i think.

[Chara]

Ruby is like in the top 2% of town players on the site ez and broke her scumrange D1

We're lynching from her PoE right?

We should be. Problem with Performer is that she had him as townie, but one of her last comments on him was "also wagons point to performer/dunn not being t/t."

So, Performer kinda is and kinda isn't in her scum pool. Might be better to look elsewhere.

this read specifically isn't one i'll be paying attention to too much, it's less salient than her other reads, and was said with the belief Dunnstral was scum. we don't know how Ruby would have reconsidered after a Dunnstral townflip.
by saliency i mean "is this a read scum are going to base a kill on"?

[Chara]

Yeah but LA's role is confirmable

do roles have something to do with alignment this game?

[Chara]

@Chara: There's this bit in my PM that is composed of 8 words "YAAMOTSC"

oh, well there you go. Almost is town.

[Chara]

VOTE: Elsa Jay
are there any objections to this?

[Chara]

Performer already pocketed me. also his read movement feelas realistic. like his posting quality really picked up after he switched styles and i just like his reads. can someone talk about that wagon besides "scumpings"?

Snowman vote was for good posting but ultimately no real townpings/things scum couldn't fake, so he just isn't in my townlist. i suppose i don't actually have a good reason for Snowman town.

Almost wagon seems to be based on "he lied, let's lynch" which for reasons expressed earlier isn't enough.

[Chara]

*don't have a good reason for Snowman scum.

[Chara]

it's not just to achieve a lynch, it's because i think Elsa is likely scum. LA gets a day just because of her claim.

[Chara]

My point is we are likely to have 2 flips already. Why make them 3? If 2 of them are scum I'd be all in with that. But what if all were Town? there's a reason why we can only lynch one slot per day, you know.

i'm just not into the idea of lynching a slot so it isn't modkilled. is there indication anyone is actually getting modkilled as opposed to a late replacement?

[Chara]

it's not just to achieve a lynch, it's because i think Elsa is likely scum. LA gets a day just because of her claim.

Lady's claim is the fake one and im the real one, but okay.

oh sorry Elsa, i didn't realize you claimed to be able to die when scum targets you.
or to have an investigation that isn't anti-town. ;>

but no, keep making posts that say "i'm town because i'm town' with no other explanation, because it's helpful.

[Chara]

If elsa rolls scum is a50 next?

No, but you probably are.

Ladies and gentlemen: The quoted post has been made by someone who isn't even voting Elsa, nor is he promoting for his lynch. This exactly what a scum partner says when they don't want to bus but fear the lynch may go through anyway, so they think "let me establish some faulty associations that may lead to a mislynch next".

Of course, if EJ flips green the above-mentioned logic is invalid, but I can now vote Alonzo over EJ to verify EJ's alignment.

In fact..

VOTE: Alonzo

what does Alonzo flipping green tell you about Elsa? your logic for Alonzo scum

relies

on Elsa scum, not the other way around.

[Chara]

being realistic by being the 2nd vote on a wagon as opposed to the 1st?

pedit: Almost, please walk me through how Alonzo being town would make Elsa town?
as opposed to a simple 'no correlation'.

[Chara]

and if we posit town Elsa and scum Alonzo... then what relevance does your Alonzo vote-post have? you explained why Alonzo would make the post if they're buddies, but not the point of the post if they aren't buddies.
Alonzo couldn't set up a mislynch on you with a green Elsa flip.

[Chara]

So. let me go back to LA: She's SCUM. And Purr is SCUM. I dunno who their third might be yet, but give me time and I'll probably figure it out. Right now I already have 2 lynch targets in my pool, and I can only vote one of them today even, so let me worry about the third Scum when I've confirmed at least one of these two.

this scumread combined with being afraid of the modkills (that include Lady) just seems uncharacteristically timid. i don't know what to make of it or the explanation for the Alonzo vote.

like, reads aside, odds are at least one of those modkills would be scum anyway. game feels slow. you aren't townreading Snowman strongly, are you?
why the overcautious call not to lynch?

[Chara]

or we could use three mislynches at once! isn't it basically the same thing? :>

[Chara]

so... why the Alonzo vote, then?

[Chara]

so... nobody should be voting anyone outside of LA/Snowman, unless they're sure they're scum. except for you?
what if i don't trust Elsa based on his play so far?