Open 737: Stack the Deck (Game Over)
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No.. are you? Or is my first impression correct?Almost50 wrote:Yaaay! Now comes the tricky part: R U SCUM in this game?
Regarding Enigma:
In those 5 pages the number of pagetops, posts about pagetops, jokes about pagetops, and posts about setup make up an awfully large portion of his total posts.
I really don't like pagetop grabbing.. I know many townies do it but it doesn't help at all and sometimes people compete over them which helps artificially boost post and page counts. It's a bit of a personal bias of mine.
It's interesting you only question that read. Has he been townspewing in the thread?
We can talk more once I'm caught up. Usually 24 hours is plenty but I don't think I'll get it done before the weekend. Those 5 pages I read in my work breaks while waiting for the mod to PM me.- BuJaber
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Caught up:
Town reads:
Creature - because he likes reemphasizing his IC status. 553 - up to this post we did not.
Vex & skitter -I like their back and forth on setup spec vex in particular because this kind of effort about something so wifomy and unimportant (to the big picture) is usually not worth it for scum. Notice that it isn't postingaboutsetup spec that I'm townreading, but it's all the extra research and actually using that to try and deduce some info. Premature if you ask me because it's not like we can make any conclusions based on it but it got him townread I guess. He also is kind of just committing to his scumread of A50 in a way that would be detrimental to him if he's scum and A50 flips town. Seems rather careless if coming from scum so unless they're literally buddies (wow that would be a hell of a performance by both) his play doesn't make sense from scum pov.
I don't like his read change on A50 though. I don't think someone who scumread A50's earlier posts would drop them to a null based on their later posts because there is imo little difference in tone and motivation behind his posts between the two readslists. But 647 that is some serious heart to heart. I think he gets it man. I think he gets it. I swear if vex ends up being scum this game he's just way too good at it. Like policy lynch just in case level of good. Quit the game because it's too easy level of good.
Skitter also for here dialogue with ruru; I think scum would have dropped it sooner but she was pedantic in trying to explain the nature of her ruru read. I think 352 is townie also. I think scum are more likely to read ruru's post there about vig policy and not give it a second thought. 502 is confusing his responses don't seem to fit the quotes. Wanting to vig a VLA / absent player so early seems odd though. 522 okay these posts are getting difficult to follow as an 'outsider'. Is it important for us to understand it or is it just for ruru's benefit? Also one thing I don't understand is why is it important for ruru to townread you based on what you would/wouldn't do as scum? Why aren't you trying to get him to townread based on your content this game instead? There's enough of it.
A50 - Passed my reaction test with the BoP question and didn't even point out to me that my predecessor has voted him even though I hadn't seen that. I feel like scum would have questioned it. Post 213 is the sort of weird self meta I feel A50 delves way too deep into as town. I fail to see any scum motivation to post 219. I don't have a lot of experience with scum!A50 but I believe he's a bit more emotional, a bit less engaged, and a bit more agressive when casing someone. I don't understand where he's going with 373, self voting is Policy lynchable imo but at the same time his vote doesn't seem emotional at all like it doesn't read like someone who wants people to back off by self-voting just reads like someone trolling. I could still consider the PL if my TR on him becomes weaker later on because I don't think self votes are good for the game.
Ruru - overall more townie posts than scummy ones I think.
Her posts discouraging setup spec come off a little LAMIST.
147 rubs me the wrong way.
But 214 feels more townie than scum using AtE.
343 seems townie. So does 389. 409 felt very 'real'. I could see it coming from a townie who has a lot of experience with who they're talking to (like ruru and skitter do) but frankly I have no completed games with ruru and I don't know if she's capable of faking this.
Why lynch jestery players over vigging them can you explain that a different way please?
I really really like the last part of 576. I think these things do tend to be scumtells more often than not. I don't think it outweighs the townieness of skitter's posting though.
I don't know enigma well enough to answer 734.
Sky - start was overly jokey in a way that's very in-your-face. Seems like something that only comes from relaxed town. 89 made me laugh. 452 good town list for this point in the game. I hate 595. Big post from Vex about sky is quite convincing. It still feels weird that she's being so obvscum. TW's entrance seems pretty good though. Coupled with the too scummy to be scum thing I say this is likely to be a townslot.
Scum reads:
Enigma - had something like 7 pagetop related posts out of his first 20 posts. He even votes for vex seemingly only because vex 'stole' his pagetop. The rest of those 20 barely talk about people, more about setup. Just not clear at all how he's reading people if he has any reads. Up to page 20 still not clear where he stabds reads-wise. 536 reads! Okay this is much better than his previous posts but not a difficult post to make as scum. Like it seems to be rather neutral for a reads list. I expect it to be more opinionated.
Hewhoswims - kinda pinged me how concerned he was with whether or not vex was a newbie. I agree with 259 as a general rule. But it doesn't apply to vex in this game. Also doesn't seem like he wants to 'make waves' so to speak.
Townreading my predecessor so strongly at this stage seems a little strange. He had barely any content compared to others and I didn't think it was obvtown to warrant such a response. If I didn't replace antihero I would ask him how well he knows A50's meta and then judge his case on him based on his response but not before.
497 I think we just go with A37's assessment and assume he has BoP here. If he doesn't get NK'd early, it's a good bet he's scum. HWS seems a little lurky also but not competely absent so I question the low post count.
Frank - very underwhelming entrance. I'm surprised he didn't have anything more to say. Maybe it's just me but these first few pages had enough content to form some early reads. 411 seems overly defensive, I don't think ruru's post warranted it.
487 ooooh SNAP ... this is gonna get good. 652 really man? Criticize him for something and also give him an excuse for it? Do you scumread what he did or not?
Gamma - I don't get 156, why not just say why you think he's wrong? And naked vote is bad.. why not provide reasons for voting A50?
But there's an undertone of trying to push people's buttons which iirc is something town!gamma does. Actually this undertone doesn't last. 499 - aww I was hoping for a fight. This game doesn't have a strong 1v1 argument we can analyze. There's A50 v Vex but it kinda feels like they're pulling punches. 528 okay this isn't AI but this reads rather condescending to me lol. 554 seems unnecessarily paranoid. He's also kinda passive. Not really putting himself out there with a strong opinion, not pushing hard on a case. Though in fairness his latest posts about tw vote are more in line with what I expect from town even if I don't agree with the read.
Ceejay - his catchup list (707) seems underwhelming. Too many nullish reads. I know he hadn't read the whole game at this point but 15 pages is plenty.
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@vex - maybe I misiniterpetted A50's posts.. where does he hardclaim mafia BP? I thought he was just hypothetically speaking from scum perspective to get his point across?
@Frank - have you ever played with A50? What about everyone else here?
@people who asked - this is my first time replacing into a fairly long game (about 30 pages behind). So I wanted to speed things up and start engaging people before my full catchup so once I'm caught up we would have talking points. So I quickly formed an opinion on the most memorable people in the first few pages and posted to gauge reactions. Based on the reactions I'd have known that either I was way off meaning their later posts should change my opinions or that I was more on less in line with the majority which means their later posting was on the same wavelength as their first few posts. Also I only had time to read 5 pages before receiving my PM so I commented on those because they were completely objective. Very useful for me to look back to these reads post-game. That might be selfish of me but I try to improve every game and this was a golden opportunity to post something useful for analysis.
As for the pagetop thing there's a difference. It wasn't once or twice that enigma did it. He has this whole objective for this game. His first few posts like I mention above are dominated by the pagetop stuff. Compare that to vex who's pagetop was much more tongue-in-cheek BECAUSE enigma made such a big deal about it. Also if someone does it as town it doesn't make it pro-town. That's exactly why it's policy-lynchable behavior. It shouldn't exist imo.
@ruru/vex - I don't really understand the lynch or vig stuff. Care to explain it again? Which should be done to whom and why does it matter?
Ah vex = korina. Yeah korina as scum is not obvtown. He's not an easy lynch but he's not obvtown. Vex is being obvtown.
HURT: cjv
I'm inclined to vote for frank. He is more likely to flip scum than cjv (cjv is more lurky with shy reads than actively scummy) so frank is more likely to be bp if it exists.
Fixed tags -ofrhzLast edited by ofrhz on Sun Sep 09, 2018 12:58 am, edited 1 time in total.- BuJaber
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Sorry for the broken tag. I wish I had more time to sit on a PC.. my steam collection is collecting dust.
And sorry for my absence. I don't want to get into all the things in my life that delayed my catchup. Suffice to say I asked to replace in on wednesday when I had a lot of free time. That free time become a lot more scarce thursday - saturday.- BuJaber
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I didn't overlook your list it just didn't make me suspect you less nor did it make me suspect you more so I didn't need to talk about it fort the purposes of sorting you. It was similar to the previous list. A lot of second guessing and uncertainty.
Sheeping would imply I saw yours first and then formed my reads.
But I formed my reads as I read along and most of my reasoning for where I placed people came much earlier than your reads list.- BuJaber
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Did I hit a nerve?In post 1134, Enigma wrote:
Lol who puts themselves in their own readlistIn post 1126, BuJaber wrote:I guess something along these lines:
{Creature, me}
{Vex}
{A50, skitter}
{Ruru, TW}
-----null line----
{Gamma, cjv}
{Enigma}
{HWS, Frank}- BuJaber
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In post 1136, ruru wrote:
This is basically the other post I wanted to make except I'm not townreading herIn post 1133, Enigma wrote:Btw, now that this game is over ... viewtopic.php?f=51&t=76766
This has kinda been in my mind the whole game, but couldn't say much as ongoing.
Skitter was one of my strongest TRs in that game, I even doc protected her because I thought she would be prime NK target ... alas she was scum
scum!skitter a force to be reckoned with, and was literally universally townread by everyone and won because town trusted her enough to hammer test her in MYLO
So I haven't really commented on skitter so much, that said I am kinda townreading skitter this game, but I don't trust her or my reads on her hahahha
Hence my earlier comment about I don't really know how to read her with confidence
If my interactions with her have been awkward in this game, not wanting to spew her alignment in the ongoing was why (and she should know that and not scumread me for not engaging her more at the beginning of the game)
I don't feel like she's done anything obviously genuine and her read progression on me is weird
I could feel the tension among the few of you in both games.
There are differences in her play though I feel. But that experience does make you second guess every read you have on skitter lol.- BuJaber
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@skitter wrt the bolded - there isn't one specific post. It just seemed like you were adamant on getting ruru to townread you based on your own meta. I guess I wanted to know why. I would understand if say she had a TR on you based on something that you know she knows would be scum indicative for you and you would be susoicious of her for it. But here it was just suprising because imo you had a lot of pro-town content that could he evaluated on its own merit to help ruru reach a townread on you, yet you were arguing with her about why she weren't townreading you on meta. Why the distinction? Why ask "why are you not townreading me because you know my meta?" Instead of simply asking "why are you not townreading me"?
Wrt enigma I feel like I've explained this. Maybe it will help if you read the first 5 pages. Like the pagetop thing is very noticable in his ISO. It isn't something he does on a whim or like when the opportunity presents itself. He has and is inflating his post count with just pagetops. Now the issue is that just taking pagetops is in itself anti-town because it does nothing helpful for the game. That's where the policy lynch comes in. However since people of both alignments do it site meta forces us not to lynch anyone who does it or we'll have a lot of dead townies (though in all honesty if we all did it for like 2 weeks everyone would stop). So if both scum and town do it you have to evaluate their posts as a whole and see if it is more likely coming from scum pov or town pov. He wasn't just taking pagetops he dedicated a few posts just talking about him going for pagetops. He also in those pages didn't give any opinions on any people. When he wasn't talking about pagetops he just gave a few comments on the setup spec - an easy way to look like he's part of the conversation without actually progressing the game. He also voted for vex? What makes him so special he needs 2 RVS votes instead of just 1 like everyone else? Everyone easily shrugged it off because he said he would do it but why the vote in the first place? He wasn't tring vex. Actually more accurately he hadn't claimed any opinion on vex at that point.
Wrt A50 PL. You misunderstand my post. I had a fairly strong TR on him before he self voted. The self vote is one of those things I'm inclined to policy lynch, but considering I had reasons to TR him I didn't want to for a policy lynch before looking at other options.
There's a difference between policy lynching someone who is also a null read and policy lynching someone who is a townread.
Loosely you can categorize it like this:
TR + did something policy lynchable = reevaluate TR to see if it holds up / if the pro-town things outweigh the scummy thing(s)
Nullread + did something policy lynchable = lynch if no solid scumread available / if town is too split up
SR + did something policy lynchable = lynch instantly- BuJaber
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It's about showing my train of thought.
Reality is if we play again and you do it again I will go through the same thing. I will frown and hate it, then try to see if you're doing as town or scum.
If you like it so much you'll probably never stop. Well then you can understand on principle why when I hate something I probably wouldn't stop scumreading it either.
Pedit - meaning me putting myself on the list or not is irrelevant but you still commented on it.- BuJaber
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@vex - in the bolded I was saying that your setup spec was premature imo and might lead us to false assumptions by doing without having any additional info via claims/flips. The only thing we know now that we didn't know before the game started is that creature is IC and therefore scum didn't pick 0 powers, they picked at least 1.
In this game the setup spec might not hurt town so much, but it doesn't help town either because it's hypothetical and might encourage some people to jump to early conclusions that end up being false. But there was one good thing that came out of it which is that you became widely townread.- BuJaber
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Who's 'he'? And which claims? Frank's and cj's?In post 1197, ruru wrote:if frank/tw are t/s maybe he lolhammers and we lose two claims- BuJaber
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In post 1200, Almost50 wrote:
False assumption (Coming from BuJ I'd say it might be a Town slip, but don't quote me on that just yet.)In post 1198, BuJaber wrote:The only thing we know now that we didn't know before the game started is that creature is IC and therefore scum didn't pick 0 powers, they picked at least 1.
Town start with 2 PRs, then gain an additional one for every modification the scum pick.
This means we have at least one other TPR in addition to Creature if the scum team is 2 Goons + a Traitor with no daychat. If they picked one modification then we have 2 more TPRs in addition to Creature. If they picked two modification we have 4 TPRs in total, and if they picked 3 modofication (maxed out) we would have FIVE TPRs.
Right right yesIn post 1201, Vex Vience wrote:
no? because creature got ic doesn't confirm scum took at least one mod.In post 1198, BuJaber wrote:@vex - in the bolded I was saying that your setup spec was premature imo and might lead us to false assumptions by doing without having any additional info via claims/flips. The only thing we know now that we didn't know before the game started is that creature is IC and therefore scum didn't pick 0 powers, they picked at least 1.
In this game the setup spec might not hurt town so much, but it doesn't help town either because it's hypothetical and might encourage some people to jump to early conclusions that end up being false. But there was one good thing that came out of it which is that you became widely townread.
town starts with two mods, which are randomly selected.
only mafia choose the mods they get, all tprs are randomly selected
Point still stands that anything we say before claims/flips would be purely hypothetical and there are too many combinations of possible town/scum PRs that it doesn't give us anything we can act on. But in this particular game it lead to a positive result. (Out of RVS and a townread on Vex)- BuJaber
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What would you expect scum's mindset to be here?In post 1241, Gamma Emerald wrote:
I think this mindset is town-oriented, I replaced into a newbie with a similar mindset (was SE/IC level replacing a newb slot iirc)In post 1228, ejjinami wrote:
If I don't need to, then I wouldn't want to claim. That's not meant to be a soft btwIn post 1225, ruru wrote:
I think you should claim first thenIn post 1223, ejjinami wrote:Start of page 6, going to sleep
┐( ̄ヘ ̄)┌
Regardless of my role, I'm town, so giving out my role as VT would only make it easier for scum to PR-hunt (if there are any additional PRs) and I obviously shouldn't claim as a PR.
I don't really care how scummy my previous slot owner was, if I manage to save the slot without having to claim, then it's obviously more beneficial than if I do claim
so nah- BuJaber
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What's bad about the bolded? I acknowledge her posting was weird but overall the reasons to townread her outweigh the reasons to scumread her.
As for enigma yes we just finished our first game together as far as I recall and yes he was town and maybe he grabbed some pagetops there but he was not on a personal mission to grab pagetops like he seems to be on here. It felt more casual/situational in that game instead of deliberate.- BuJaber
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@enigma - Actually it's the other players that are bringing it up. I formed an impression based on your early game. It wasn't a good one. Your later posts weren't enough to change that because they qere not posts that scum!you wouldn't/couldn't post.
@ruru - that isn't what I said about sky. People questioned her posts saying she might be singling to scum that's she traitor and generally not playing to her town meta (according to them). What I'm saying is that her posts where too scummy to be scum. Scum wouldn't be this conspicious. I don't have a lot of experience with traitors but I don't think they would be this conspicious either. The value of signaling to scum that you're traitor is lost if people end up lynching you for it.- BuJaber
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Because tw forgot his name?!In post 1278, skitter30 wrote:In post 1232, the worst wrote:i'll be real, i can't even remember who you replaced rn
pretty sure not groupscum togetherIn post 1233, ejjinami wrote:
f-sth, I don't remember his nameIn post 1232, the worst wrote:i'll be real, i can't even remember who you replaced rn
but he's the main wagon rn, so there should be a lot of reads him- BuJaber
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Yeah this towntell always feels wrong to me. It comes up quite often though and most of the time people are right when they assume it but it still is weird to me because I think it's one of the easiest things to fake. Scum don't even have to fake it sometimes if they genuinenly forgot but didn't bother to check.In post 1287, skitter30 wrote:well, more like he couldn't remember who he replaced; i think he'd know who replaced his partner
it doesn't feel faked to me, idk if i can explain that better- BuJaber
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In post 1307, ejjinami wrote:Throwing duck a bit closer to the townpileIn post 1303, the worst wrote:In post 1301, ejjinami wrote:
waht are your reads rn?In post 1294, the worst wrote:someone I townread tell me what to do pls
OK <3In post 1295, ruru wrote:Just vote yourself
VOTE: the worst
that progression feels slightly townie.In post 1305, the worst wrote:
apathy mostly honestlyIn post 1301, ejjinami wrote:
waht are your reads rn?In post 1294, the worst wrote:someone I townread tell me what to do pls
Getting reads as town is generally more difficult than doing it as scum. From my experience AtE of that type is more likely to come from town than scum.
And I remember duck saying a few times that he wants to sheep, which would be bad for scum in this situation, because there is no set wagon rn (there are many possible wagons, so unless scum!duck’s teammate/teammates are all townread, being completely sheepy/apathetic about the lynch would be rather risky)
The apathy should be real imo. That self-vote really fits the image of a demotivated player and that’s not sth that I see being faked often.
I wouldn't be so sure. I've played with scum!TW once and he won the game by being kinda vague and sheepy with his reads. He felt like a confused little innocent duckling all game and got himelf townlocked brilliantly. It probably involved a lot of bussing his partners but it was worth it in the end.- BuJaber
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viewtopic.php?f=54&t=75184In post 1313, ejjinami wrote:
can you link the game?In post 1311, BuJaber wrote:I wouldn't be so sure. I've played with scum!TW once and he won the game by being kinda vague and sheepy with his reads. He felt like a confused little innocent duckling all game and got himelf townlocked brilliantly. It probably involved a lot of bussing his partners but it was worth it in the end.
and what is your read on him rn?
A weak town read based slightly on his tone but mainly on me just not seeing how skygazer could be scum and be so obvious about it.- BuJaber
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Well thing is I don't think Enigma is scumhunting. He's posting a few very passive reads that are mostly just sheeping people and the rest of his posts are fluff. Maybe you don't agree with me on the pagetop stuff but let me ask you this: game goes on and reaches 5ish pages and one player has posted 0 reads, only a few comments on setup. He has only 2 votes in that period, his RVS vote and his joke vote on vex. He claims he's not a strong d1 player and relies a bit more on associatives so he starts to rev it up later on in the game. I'll concede I don't know his meta as this is my 2nd game with him but even for someone who isn't a d1 player, wouldn't you expect some effort at least? One or two reads, even if just a meta read. The playerlist is not filled with NM-type players. There was enough there to form some early reads.
For now though since this game is now over and I have confirmation that gamma slot flipped scum: viewtopic.phpf=2&t=76913
I'll VOTE: gamma for similar low level of activity and what seems to me like avoiding getting into it with anyone.
I had a soft meta scum read on him in that game that I didn't act on until he was guiltied. Turns out I was right.
I'm voting gamma or enigma. Vig target should be one of the lurkier options cjv/HWS.
Ejj slot not yet cleared ftr. If he doesn't get distracted with the later posts he would finish catching up faster if you ask me.- BuJaber
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You said yourself you might never catch up if you don't do it now. Sorry I took that to mean it's a priority.In post 1384, ejjinami wrote:The priority should be to get a scum lynch, or at least to get good reads out of the wagons. While catching up would help, I won’t be able to do it fast enough, so it’s out of the question
And I think I can do just fine without it for now, so you can read me normally regardless if I’ve caught up or not.- BuJaber
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This might be the weakest TR I've ever seen.In post 1414, Gamma Emerald wrote:Hm tw could be Town- BuJaber
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Can you elaborate on your tw read?In post 1418, skitter30 wrote:
ye sorry, wasn't trying to badger you; when i realized u weren't going to answer in a way that i found useful i realized t'would be a good time to stopIn post 1416, the worst wrote:
can't play 20 questions. I just dislike the wagons atmIn post 1415, skitter30 wrote:
eh i was going to follow up by saying that if you just wanted to evade you should just tell me so that we don't have to go through the motions of playing 20 questionsIn post 1413, the worst wrote:my blatant refusal to elaborate shld probably be telling lmao I'd say focus on my other reads today fwiw
still going to vote you tho, sorry
You rely a lot on meta it's hard to follow your cases sometimes without knowing the context.- BuJaber
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Why not?In post 1452, skitter30 wrote:bleh that's an icky wagon too; i hadn't realized
i don't know where i want to vote right now
That's really too much hesitation for a day 1 lynch. You have scumreads. It's not like you're null on everyone. You either vote for one of them or sheep your townreads if you must.- BuJaber
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Skitter when was the last time you read sky's ISO in all its glory?
I find it weird someone who knows her so well could be worried about that slot. I've yet to see anyone play scum like that. When someone checks off every typical scumtell like they're going down a list chances are they're not scum. Because that person cannot endgame. They will be PL'd at some point. So where is the scum motivation?
That's assuming sky is the type of player who takes heavy risks as scum. You'll have to tell me which it is there. Is she bold and reckless? Or careful and methodical? Because if it's the latter I feel that personality can't follow through with the do-scummy-things-on-purpose strategy anyway.- BuJaber
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Actually I have to ask a general question first to determine type of player you are.
Are you for or against PL'ing miller claims?
I'm for it if you can't tell.
It's why sometimes I'm able to place someone in or out of my scumpool based on if I think they have a chance at endgaming or not. This is normally more applicable when someone actually claims a role, but I think it can be applied here also for sky/tw. Also to some extent to NM. Like some have said he's a good vig target but even if there isn't a vig that slot is likely to get PL'd sooner or later and is therefore not a priority to lynch now.- BuJaber
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4 days. It only feels longer because I do my catchup all in one go.In post 1469, skitter30 wrote:anti -> bujaber who took like half a week to catchup
Ftr I got the part where you don't want to vote for gamma because you scumread his wagon composition my question was why are you having difficulty voting someone when you have this many scumreads.
I guess you won't relate to my sky argument then if you don't PL millers as a rule.- BuJaber
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In post 1520, ruru wrote:okay whatever I'm afk for the night
I'm not sure if what tw did is really the towntell I think it is, also the evasiveness is fairly pl-worthy
nm seems to be playing his scum meta so far
{skitter, a50 (skitter)} - this is an actual hard tr based on her being out of her scum meta and not a day 1 "oh skitter's presence in this game is +ev" type of thing, I really mean it this time
{vex} - assuming the self-meta is accurate
{a50, enigma}
{gamma}
{ejji}
{bujaber, hws, nm, tw (a50)}
{tw, nm (a50/tw)}
I'm trying out a new readslist format so people can see both my personal reads and aggregate reads in case I'm shot and the people I was sheeping flip red; it should be pretty self-explanatory
You think tw/nm are partners?- BuJaber
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Tw - do you have a scum game where you posted a lot? I only have the one scumgame to go on and d1 you sort of played to that meta but d2 it's different. Like you're arguing more than I would expect but some of the things you're saying are just so weird.
I find it weird that ruru is able to push tw for bussing cjv which seems rather reachy. Like I don't think tw is obvtown here by any means, but I don't think the way he pushed cjv was scum-indicative. It only makes sense if you go into it thinking 'what would tw do if he repped into a scum slot' it doesn't feel like the correct order of thoughts. Unless ruru genuinenly looks at that and says oh that looks like bussing. If someone other than tw did the same thing would you also think they're bussing ruru? At least then I could understand. Just feels like an awkward attempt at bussing and if he is as good at it as you say I'd expect a smoother attempt.
Also coming from the same person the gamma tr is weird. You are prone to believing that scum!tw had this elaborate bussing strategy, but don't believe scum!gamma could fake forget his partner? Particularly someone who flaked from the site and wasn't talking much he's easily forgettable for real even.
Enigma seems like he's pushing an agenda/creating nk wifom and he continues to post rvs'y posts like 'first' which is just like... why man? A50 did TR him though. I also still think gamma's play is more in line with his scum meta.
I hypo inno alonzo
I need help sorting tw/ruru, vex/skitter still town, alonzo is town, scum pool for today is {ejj, enigma, gamma}
VOTE: gamma- BuJaber
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Well you're both wrong then lmaoIn post 1661, Alonzo wrote:@VV
I have a strict Lynch NM policy. A50 unvoting NM and saying I never vote NM is THE singlemost scummy post I think I 'have ever seen. Probably best he's dead, I would have dragged this game waaaay down by now =)
Why have a blanket policy onplayer?- BuJaber
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I'd like to have a mini discussion on this after the game.In post 1669, the worst wrote:
...especially when he reps into a meta scum slotIn post 1665, Vex Vience wrote:ik nm is just a troll.
that's why im so fine with him getting hung d1.
hence why we don't leave him to be vigged by a vig that ~may or may not exist~
I skimmed through your posts in open 733. Looks like there's more to your scum game than what meets the eye.
I think I need to play with you more before I can meta read you.
See in giyga's curse (feels like years ago) you had this air of uncertainty and lack of solid opinions and I would have described you as a shy/passive go-with-the-flow kind of player. A common enough scum technique but also if done well can get away with it undetected. General theme would be 'hiding' from direct attention.
In 733 it seems you were following a more proactive 'point attention elsewhere' technique. Less talking about yourself, more pushing of cases, more asking direct questions that don't require you to give opinions yourself but allow you to divert attention onto the person being asked the question.
In terms of post quantity I'd say this game is closer to 733, but content wise I'm not seing a consistent agenda of avoiding the spotlight here. You're neither hiding nor trying to avoid getting into it with people. But I'm not sensing any real motivation to figuring things out either. It reads like that one tired player in every rl game asking everyone "aren't we done yet?"- BuJaber
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Slam dunkIn post 1705, skitter30 wrote:like i think it's easy to be confident cj slot was flipping scum if you know that he's scum if that makes sense
But while my meta dive is iconsistent I'm leaning town for tw. I also don't think we should discount sky's play. Still can't she'd play scum so jestery.- BuJaber
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This is true but that's more recently.In post 1712, the worst wrote:it seems like there's a lot of fluffy stuff and I'm getting a kinda self important/lotta clout energy but also like non nuanced 1 dimensional reads but i guess that's pretty consistent with his town meta so *shrugs
Like he posted a whole lot and townspewed and got himself townread by pretty much everyone. Then he justifiably kinda started egoposting as a result since roughly the last few pages of day 1 when he was talking about who will get NK'd.
You really think he'd get comfortable enough to do that as scum? Not the impression I got from Forest Fire.- BuJaber
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And that makes sense to you?In post 1743, skitter30 wrote:the people i townread are: vex, ruru, enigma, creature
the people i don't are: buj, alonzo, tw, ge, ejji
and three of them are on that wagon
We know there's a traitor and a groupscum left alive.
You have to ask yourself if both could be on gamma in only 4 votes or if one of them is bussing the other (gamma) in only 4 votes.
If the answer is no to both of those then ejj should either be confirmed scum to you or you know for a fact you are townreading scum.- BuJaber
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Sounds like you need a flip.
I guess my point boils down to you have a big scum pool that seems awfully coincidental. It seems strange that almost all of them are on the same wagon and one of them is the player being wagoned.
And then you're townpool in comparison is small but all of them are off the wagon with the exception of the IC.
So it's like you created a line that is gamma. But that would make sense if you townread gamma but you don't.
I know you didn't claim to arrive at that poolbecausewe're voting for gamma, so that's what makes it strange. If it were for that reason it'd be natural to get the playerlist divide that you ended up with. But you seemed to end up with it completely independently and I guess I found it a weird coincidence and I don't trust coincidences in a game of reads, human intrraction, and deception.
If I trust my townread on you then the logical conclusion is that you are being fooled by one or more of your townreads. Or I am wrong about you and this is a result of you unable to keep up with your lies and fake reads to keep them aligned/consistent. I'd rather play with the assumption that I'm right since it's easier and better for my ego.- BuJaber
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F me. YOURIn post 1747, BuJaber wrote:you're- BuJaber
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It refers to my pov. Because I don't think scum!tw and scum!alonzo would both be voting for gamma if he's town nor do I think his buddy would bus him this early in the day if he's scum.In post 1757, skitter30 wrote:i think we view this very differently; i'm still not really following the bolded; to me a logical conclusion is that i'm scumreading town, not that i'm townreading scum? i don't get why that follows from the above discussion
From your pov yes the above would be the most logical conclusion given your reads but I understand that you can dislike a wagon without townreading the person being wagoned.- BuJaber
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Only player getting inno'd by two peopleIn post 1781, the worst wrote:I can't remember why but I have the HotWaterService/Alonzo slot down as pretty town- BuJaber
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What is this showing?In post 1793, ruru wrote:In post 31, Skygazer wrote:
yet you don't opt to end rvs by voting me?In post 27, skitter30 wrote:i know that you probably meant this in jest and that it's rvs but i think this is slightly more likely to come from scum tbh
In post 45, Skygazer wrote:
Because from your point of view I'm more likely to be scum than ruru at the momentIn post 36, skitter30 wrote:i mean, i think we're out of rvs at this point
why should i have voted you there?
viewtopic.php?f=90&t=77029In post 452, Skygazer wrote:A50/ruru/Creature/skitter/vex feel town imo
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@ruru : I'm not sure what you wanted us to see. All I got was skitter tried very hard as scum in that game, her effort here doesn't come close imo. Also that sky took that game very seriously as town and put in a lot of effort.
But reading that led me to read other PTs... and I found this:
viewtopic.php?f=90&t=76763&start=275
Post 288. Aug 30th.
This game started Aug 24th.
Unless skitter is playing 4D chess......
She's town here.- BuJaber
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Sky's? I'm trying to make sense of her actions.
Nothing she did here really aligns with how she played in pyp. I just still don't know how someone who puts that much effort into trying to win (she really stepped up as soon as she felt comfortable ausuka was town, their analysis of setup was really good, and she continued to try and utilize her neighborhoods), can roll scum and switch the attitude around completely.
But maybe A50 was right. Maybe sky really is a traitor who's just going for broke and being obvious about it.
Got any scum meta on sky? Could you see that from her?
Might be easier than trying to sort tw.- BuJaber
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Well the difference is as town there's less pressure on each individual townie to play well than it there is on each scum player.
A town player can survive being scumread then townread then scumread again because ultimately their individual death does not severely impact town. Especially not in the early game.
Playing scum with continuous pressure/suspicion on your slot for an entire game is an absolutely wretched existence and makes it far harder to win.
Even if say one scum player plays poorly and gets suspected .. they still have to be careful up to the last living minute not to hurt their teammates by associations or something like that.
So minimum effort required as scum is much higher than that as town.
I could totally understand her taking it easy for the beginning of the game as town after pyp, and then picking it up at a later time. Doing it as scum though is her not trying at all. - BuJaber
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