Open 737: Stack the Deck (Game Over)

[skitter30]

ruru: [irrel, alonzo]
alonzo: [null, enigma]
irrel: [null, performer]
korina: [skitter, bujaber]
enigma: [skitter, null?]
performer: [bujaber, korina]
skitter: [alonzo, enigma]

hmmmm is scum more or less likely to hypo-inno a partner? not sure

[skitter30]

I've already covered this, however, why would I out myself as Vex unless I was that confident in my scumplay, when this is literally the only site I actually play on?

it's more of a paranoia thing than something i'm really like actively concerned about

i just odn't want to completely overlook the possibility

[skitter30]

i think i'm leaning more towards performer than irrel rn

i also think it doesn't matter super much because if there are any nks with alonzo alive we'll have enough lynches to just lynch through everyone

[skitter30]

Irrel, sorry i tunneled you for like three dayphases

Im going to wait to hear who alonzo rb'd

I'm tending towards performer tho

[skitter30]

VOTE: performer

[skitter30]

performer himself i think is fine, and i lowkey townread him in isolation tbh

however, things that i'm finding a little problematic include:

-> in retrospect, tw's iso isn't that great

-> tw has pretty bad associatives with bujaber (on bujaber's end)

-> all iterations of flipped scum (anti, bujaber, and cj) townread sky

[skitter30]

that's a DRAW. That means they risked being ok with that. If I go off what I can tell from # of games played and meta - I don't think ruru is that type of scum, or skitter for that matter. But I think this last scum isn't too sharp due to what I've explained here.

i mean, it' spossible they think it's impossible for them to win so are going for a draw instead (after all, that's better than an outright loss)

[skitter30]

Subject: Open 713: Jungle Republic [Game Over]

Try 72/24 and 48/24 hour games, plus this game, which is 168/48.

This is the only site where I could fesibly get away with doing 3+ games at once.

I mean, I get it, life gets busy and you might not have time to post as much as you like - but like the fact that you're repeatedly popping in to tell us you're busy and that you can't really post content looks excuse-y.[/quote]

this is how i described town!korina in the other game i played with him

[skitter30]

i messed up those quotes; let me try that again

[skitter30]

Subject: Open 713: Jungle Republic [Game Over]

Try 72/24 and 48/24 hour games, plus this game, which is 168/48.

This is the only site where I could fesibly get away with doing 3+ games at once.

I mean, I get it, life gets busy and you might not have time to post as much as you like - but like the fact that you're repeatedly popping in to tell us you're busy and that you can't really post content looks excuse-y.

[skitter30]

i'm not entirely sure why you're calling for him to be mod-killed tho

[skitter30]

i could conceivably see myself no-kill maybe? i'm not sure why i owuldn't just nk tho

i know that i wouldn't want to go for a draw if i were scum in my position because i'm literally never getting lynched; scum!me wants the game to end faster so i can just win, and doesn't want the game to draw

i can kinda see scum in {performer/enigma, maybe korina} try to go for the draw (ie by proposing a no lynch today and no nk tonight again) because a draw is better than an outright loss

[skitter30]

i'm not sure if i'm seeing him be survivalistic tho?

[skitter30]

yeah i'm not really feeling scum!korina super much tbh

[skitter30]

UNVOTE:

[skitter30]

so is there any particular objection to me just hammering?

[skitter30]

sorry performer :/

VOTE: performer

[skitter30]

i am entirely confused rn

ruru + alonzo i've kinda lost the townread since it's been like three nights and you aren't resolved (wtf)

korina died also (wtf)

it's probably just enigma but i need to do like a hard reset to figure this out

also no-lynch is maybe a thing?

[skitter30]

oh right i lowky forgot that was a thing lmao

[skitter30]

korina dying over me might mean that i'm pocketed tbh
that's a really freaking strange nk

[skitter30]

what day did we lynch bujaber? day3?

so we've had three nights of the bg not dying and no innos

ok i basically got to start all over again i guess because i'm quite befuddled

getting a little paranoid that i've been pocketed by ruru

it's prob just enigma tho

idk if we no-lynch here

[skitter30]

meh maybe not enigma, bujaber was pushing them quite hard?

idk

p-edit i didn't read that yet

[skitter30]

this game has been going on for two months holy shit

i get game-fatigue at the ~6 week mark

at least my vex read was right tho; happy i didn't get that wrong

still want to know why a50 died. the a50 and korina kills are both kinda ???? to me

[skitter30]

ok i think i'm going to just read that tomorrow and try to start sorting this out then since i'm kinda tired and i read that wall like four times and i'm not really processing it

[skitter30]

my gut says alonzo but my gut's been wrong like three times this game already so i prob shouldn't listen to it that much

[skitter30]

why'd you pick korina over enigma?

[skitter30]

more not having had an observable/provable night action in five nights

(ie n1 was a50 who died that night; i don't remember what happened n2; n3 and n4 was performer; n5 was korina who also died that night)

you're more the fact that you're still alive and that korina got nk'd last night and not me

[skitter30]

like not having an nk for two nights and then korina points to something being very very very wrong

[skitter30]

N2 enigma- scum kiled n3/4 performer IIRC

ok so enigma def didn't nk n2. if he's scum that implies he's either traitor or

that scum!bujaber felt like he was less likely to get rb'd

than enigma i guess since there was a nk and enigma didn't do it

bolded: follow up there; see what bujaber/enigma/alonzo's reads at the end of day2 were

[skitter30]

i'm around, sorry
prioritizing other things cuz [redacted]

[skitter30]

Enigma:

it makes perfect sense for enigma to shoot korina:
- alonzo rbs korina -> nk doesn't matter
- alonzo doesn't rb enigma -> he almost certainly rbs korina, korina is conftowned

you meant 'alonzo rbs enigma' there, right?

so you're saying his motive to kill korina is to prevent him from being conftowned?
ie, say, he would have otherwise shot me and alonzo rb'd korina and korina is now conftown, right?

[skitter30]

- he'd know korina isn't gc, possibly not tracker/rb if bujaber did the n2 kill, but skitter and I were both viable investigatives

explain this again?

[skitter30]

- he would be a traitor with no mods, but he wouldn't know that, so he also has to deal with the possibility of there being multiple prs in {korina, ruru, skitter}
- he'd know korina isn't gc, possibly not tracker/rb if bujaber did the n2 kill, but skitter and I were both viable investigatives
- he'd risk getting shot by groupscum if the bujaber lynch didn't go through

why are you assuming traitor!alonzo and not groupscum-alonzo-with-daytalk?

[skitter30]

about me and alonzo being alive, I guess it's less notable than it looks:

both of you being alive i don't inherently find strange

i think it's incredibly odd that the bg is not dead after three nights and that the jk has had no observable night actions in that time

[skitter30]

ok, things that need to happen at some point:

-> reread day1
-> vcs
-> isos of all flipped scum
-> iso of enigma

probably other things i'm not thinking of rn

[skitter30]

got it

[skitter30]

traitor!alonzo means no mods at all

[skitter30]

FrankJaeger (5): Almost50, Vex Vience, skitter30, Creature, Enigma (L-2)

ok if scum were on this it's enigma

ceejayvinoya (5): the worst, Creature, Almost50, ruru, skitter30 (L-2)

and if scum on here, ruru; enigma was still on frank

enigma would have to have vote-parked his partner (bujaber) from 1250 to 1522, to join not_mafia on the one-vote tw wagon

Not_Mafia (7): the worst, ruru, skitter30, Vex Vience, Creature, Enigma, ejjinami LYNCH

scum here is ruru or enigma

VOTE COUNT 2.6

Alonzo (4):

Enigma, ruru, skitter30, Vex Vience

(L-2)

the worst (1):

Gamma Emerald

ruru (0):

BuJaber (0):

Enigma (0):

ejjinami (0):

Creature (0):

Gamma Emerald (4):

Creature, Bujaber, Alonzo, the worst

(L-2)

skitter30 (0):

Vex Vience (0):

Not Voting (1):

ejjinami

With

10

alive, it takes

6

to lynch.
Day 2 ends in (expired on 2018-10-02 10:30:00)

Other:

- skitter30 V/LA Fridays and Saturdays
- skitter30 V/LA until Wednesday morning
- Gamma Emerald has been prodded
- ejjinami still needs to be replaced :c If you know anyone looking for a game, let them know

That is more indicative of there being a wagon on scum right now.

If everyone, town and scum alike, are posting very little scum cannot bus and risk a quick hammer from the absent townies. They cannot aggressively push the counterwagon because as soon as a mislynch occurs the other player would be a prime suspect.

the above two indicative of town!alonzo i'm pretty sure

VOTE COUNT 2.12

Enigma (3):

Irrelephant11, Gamma Emerald, Bujaber

Creature (0):

Gamma Emerald (4):

Creature, skitter30, ruru, Korina

(L-2)

VOTE COUNT 2.13

Enigma (2):

Irrelephant11, Gamma Emerald

Gamma Emerald (6):

Creature, skitter30, ruru, Korina, BuJaber, the worst

HAMMER

slightly indicative of scum!enigma

but bujaber consistently went back to pushing enigma so hmmm

like here:

VOTE COUNT 3.1

Alonzo (0):

Enigma (3):

BuJaber, Irrelephant11, the worst

(L-2)

Not Voting (5):

Alonzo, ruru, Enigma, skitter30, Korina

like enigma feels like bujaber's chosen mislycnh tbh

VOTE COUNT 3.13

Alonzo (0):

Performer (0):

ruru (0):

BuJaber (3):

Irrelephant11, skitter30, Alonzo

(L-2)

Enigma (1):

BuJaber

Not Voting (3):

Enigma, Korina, ruru

this one too

i don't think enigma and buajber are groupscum really

Irrelephant11 (4): ruru, Performer, Enigma, Alonzo HAMMER

i have to go back and look at this in greater depth becuase not-flipped scum is guaranteed to be on this

ok those are my notes wrt enigma's votes

[skitter30]

Ruru why are u town?

[skitter30]

More like its mylo and i feel like i have to do my due diligence and check all the possibilities.

Admittedly i think this is the least likely but i would feel kinda silly losing to scum!you because i was so pocketed that i didnt bother to re-evaluate

And still being alive makes me worries about being pocketed

And last night while looking at the vcs i more than once thought to myself 'that's an all town wagon' with you on it and like thats a bad mindset to have in mylo

Is it at all likely that scum!you would have made up the bg claim?

[skitter30]

Right, the newbie

Ok, holistically, what do u think scum were doing the past three nights? Like what do u think the plan was?

[skitter30]

like I could literally just push massclaim because almost everyone seemed to agree, claim vt, bus bujaber, shoot alonzo, lynch irrel+performer, and the game would be over by now instead of 3:1

fair point

[skitter30]

like i'm just wondering ... who does the 2x no-kill benefit? presumably it was pre-mediatated (that or scum just forgot to nk twice i suppose)

let's assume alonzo is telling the truth and is an rb:

-> ruru no-killed to prevent having to explain why alonzo is dead and she isn't (but she coudl have avoided this problem by claiming vt and nk'ing alonzo, especially since she claimed after him)

-> enigma no-killed ... to avoid having a rb guilty on him or an inno on (who we now know to be performer). like hte obvious kills for him are ruru -> alonzo -> me prob? like killling korina last night given the prior days kinda makes sense but it doesn't make sense if we look at all three days holistically. i think he just wants the game to end and to do that presumably there's no reason why he doesn't just make the obvious kills; i guess he'd have an inno from the night he killed ruru (so on day4 there'd be 6 players; an rb claim and an inno maybe) and maybe another inno from the night he killed alonzo (on day5 at least one inno, maybe two, in 4way). ok i guess it's possible that he purposefully no-killed to prevent 4way mylo with 1-2 innos but like ... he doesn't really strike me as the type of person to be this inventive. like htis is hte kind of plan i could see ruru cooking up maybe (if she hadn't claimed bg etc) but most people i don't think think about the game this way

it might just be alonzo actually
-> he expects to die the night after you so he can't kill you (he had a post a bit up saying 'someone wants ruru alive')
-> but why did he claim rb in the first place ... he had to know that he'd be questioned for being alive this long
-> by giving 'rb-guilties' he got at least one mislynch out of it, and again, the fact that there hasn't been a rb inno anywhere (or even a demonstrable rb in 5 nights) is incredibly strange.
-> however to fake an rb on enigma n2 he had to be banking on enigma not being a pr
-> like from scum!alonzo's perspective: he's avoided giving innos for three nights and got the performer mislynch out of the double 'rb-guilty'
-> he's also kinda dropped off the map contribution-wise for the last several dayphases now that i think about it and has mostly been sheeping the popular wagons

[skitter30]

also i need to skim bujaber's iso again but enigma was his designated lynch
they def aren't groupscum together

they're maybe groupscum/traitor

[skitter30]

i think alonzo has been kinda coasting off of the rb claim, and i think no-killing to give out 'guilties' and to avoid giving out 'innos' makes sense

i don't know if it makes sense for him to have claimed it in the first place tho

[skitter30]

Spoiler:

Alonzo - who did you target?

Who did you target?

FMPOV we should nolynch this out, I could then Pick either the same target as last night or a different player and see the results then.

Im not 100% sure Scum didn't no kill last night to force a mislynch today. I'd like to run it twice.

VOTE: PERFORMER

Blocked here last night.

Whats happening??

Who's the Lynch?

I will re read Both slots to see if I missed anything. got a few days now.

Fair.

I'l drop hammer in around 20 hours unless anyone wants more time?

Vote: Irrel

I blocked performer again

This is outside of performers scum range as I understand it.
Pretty sure it's Korina at this point.

VOTE: Performer

This is against my better nature. I think Performers put in a good shift, but the evidence is what it is.

L-1

Where's nm when you need him

I keep him chained up in the basement!

Who else would be scum then?

Has this been answered?

Fmpov..
I think flipping you is important so we can get a better idea about TWs thought process in this one.

Pretty sure town will win this the hard way, sadly gotta slay some townies along the way.

I'm not convinced you are scum based off play, but gotta think of the majority trying to solve.

Don't want to go too deep on the others incase scum work out my block for tonight.

Go ahead skitter

Someone wants you Alive ruru...

I Rb'd Korina

Guess all I can do is one more roleblock and hope you aren't fakeclaiming bodyguard ruru.

Probably shoulda doubled down on Enigma last night.

Whos up for some rapid no lynch action?

I kinda shared TW's opinion that alot of the VV iso was kinda hollow, just throwawy thoughts for the sake of throwaway thoughts. Coupled with the performer flip I thought I'd dig into it, as Korina wasn't as active and started to tell more like they did in 720 when they were scum.

Kinda silly in hindsight but it felt like a fresh lead at the time

N2 enigma- scum kiled n3/4 performer IIRC

Whats your read on Enigma ruru?

you seemed happier to push Irrel/Performer wagons last coupe of days?

everything alonzo said since hte bujaber lynch ^^^^ and it's surprisingly devoid of content imo

he was on both irrel and performer for weak reasons. not sure why he switched off of performer onto irrel after the first rb guilty on performer

3148 (day5) - he says that performer is out of his scumrange, but votes him anyways; doesn't think he's scum but voted him to help 'the majority trying to solve' which is meh

today he's building towards a 'ruru is fake-claiming bg' push

[skitter30]

i'll be around later to read through that and respond

it's prob just enigma

bleh idk

i really hate traitors; they mess up how i view associatives and gamestate reads

[skitter30]

we need to establish more than them just being weird, we need to establish that it's weirder for town.alonzo than for scum.alonzo and I think non-alonzo scum have plenty of motivation to nokill too for exactly the same reasons

fair enough

[skitter30]

Reading through the BuJ/me associatives ...

BuJ continued to push me iirc on D3 after the massclaims (but before his lynch was likely).

1. If we were group scum
This is terrible play as he becomes the last scum forced to deal with a rb (he can't kill) that can provide innos ...

like he makes his difficult miserable. Why do this to yourself?

2. If I was traitor
This means scum took day talk for sure based on the flips. Imo is a terrible mod choice for only 2 scum ... but meh who knows.
If you were group scum, wouldn't you be cautious of accidentally lynching your traitor ... plus I would like to think I would be signalling like fuck off I'm on your team.

Also yes traitors suck.

i can kinda see scum!you feeling this

[skitter30]

I'm pretty made up its Enigma at this point.

If you flip red at this point skitter you earned it my friend.

Of course Enig's gonna say I need a lynch to win as scum, but FMPOV i need a lynch to win as town, as scum can still force a draw from this position.

Im ready to Vote.

Umm FYPOV it is better to no lynch if you are town, because you have another night with the rb and then better chances of hitting scum tonight and tomorrow day.
Like no lyching forces scum between a very tough time tomorrow to win (they will probably lose) or stalling for a draw.

i feel like no-lynching today is the same hting as saying we think alonzo is town effectively (else the game just ends).

ie my pov no-lynching today is effectively the same as lynching enigma - if alonzo is scum town just loses. i feel like i might as well just choose to lynch enigma or alonzo instead of no-lynching (ie if i believe enigma is town i'd just lynch alonzo. if i'm not sure i can no-lynch but i'm effectively trusting alonzo to be town, in which case i might as well lynch enigma)

idk if i expressed that well but i don't think that no-lynching actually accomplishes anything for town here really besides entrusting the game to town!alonzo

@mod if there is no kill again from scum, how many times can we no lynch again before you decide it's a draw?

Uhhh I really don't want this game to ping-pong back and forth like that, so let's just say once more. If there is no lynch today, no kill tonight, and no lynch tomorrow, I'll call it a draw, and we can all pack up our bags and go home.

seems like a draw is no nk/no lynch 2x in a row

i don't think a draw is possible anymore, assuming we don't no-lynch in 3way (which is dumb)

[skitter30]

oh i gues we no-lynch and no-nk tomorrow but like, a draw is suboptimal and like a meh resolution to this

[skitter30]

it's probably just traitor!enigma

i don't want to no-lynch; from my pov that basically means i think alonzo is town in which case i might as well lynch enigma

[skitter30]

I'm pretty made up its Enigma at this point.

If you flip red at this point skitter you earned it my friend.

Of course Enig's gonna say I need a lynch to win as scum, but FMPOV i need a lynch to win as town, as scum can still force a draw from this position.

Im ready to Vote.

Umm FYPOV it is better to no lynch if you are town, because you have another night with the rb and then better chances of hitting scum tonight and tomorrow day.
Like no lyching forces scum between a very tough time tomorrow to win (they will probably lose) or stalling for a draw.

something's weird about the pov of this post but idk what it is rn

[skitter30]

enigma do you like town or scum more?

[skitter30]

it's probably just traitor!enigma

i don't want to no-lynch; from my pov that basically means i think alonzo is town in which case i might as well lynch enigma

i'm dumb nm

it's 4way. nolynch.

town!alonzo - can maybe stop an nk or scum don't nk - 3 or 4 people alive tomorrow
scum!alonzo - can nk (3 alive) or not (4 alive)

idk why i thought this

[skitter30]

The speed at which the CJ wagon formed is a bit off putting .. the VCA will be interesting if/when he flips

CJ and NWMM are so contentless I can barely make a read, and I don't even know if CJ has read the whole thread yet ...
Reading Open 733 where CJ was scum (with tw), CJ actually (pretends) to scumhunt a bit, actively pushes mislynches, and interacts with the gamestate. Open 725 is a bit of a mess to read, but CJ feels also a bit more actively driving lynches (and he was bussing his partner AP).

Maybe part of why I'm hesitant, in addition to CJ simply having zero content, is a lack of CJ voting on someone so far and advancing the game state. I've also mislynched CJ in other games, partly because he was lurky and didn't get a chance to defend himself. But I've also seen town CJ defend himself as the lynch target when he was more active.

So meta wise I don't quite see the picture on CJ.

meh

[skitter30]

Btw, now that this game is over ... viewtopic.php?f=51&t=76766
This has kinda been in my mind the whole game, but couldn't say much as ongoing.

Skitter was one of my strongest TRs in that game, I even doc protected her because I thought she would be prime NK target ... alas she was scum
scum!skitter a force to be reckoned with, and was literally universally townread by everyone and won because town trusted her enough to hammer test her in MYLO

So I haven't really commented on skitter so much, that said I am kinda townreading skitter this game, but I don't trust her or my reads on her hahahha
Hence my earlier comment about I don't really know how to read her with confidence

still feel like this was a townie reaction to that game; if he were scum referencing this i feel like he'd keep bringing up to try to undermine the townreads on me throughout but i haven't really gotten that vibe really

[skitter30]

Wow BuJ thanks for the huge wall of text dedicated to me.
1. I steal page tops because its fun and would gladly do it as either faction
2. I can't make reads in the first 24/48 hours of a game ... in general my D1 play sucks
3. I'm very special thanks, so I can have all the RVS votes I want

also like i never really got the vibe that enigma's reactions to bujaber's scumread of him were like from a traitor (as enigma so eloquently put it, why didn't he signal him to just fuck off already?) he really deos seem peeved that bujaber kept circling back to him

[skitter30]

What's bad about the bolded? I acknowledge her posting was weird but overall the reasons to townread her outweigh the reasons to scumread her.

As for enigma yes we just finished our first game together as far as I recall and yes he was town and maybe he grabbed some pagetops there but he was not on a personal mission to grab pagetops like he seems to be on here. It felt more casual/situational in that game instead of deliberate.

Dude when the game first started I made a few page top grabs, mainly to get back at ofrhz for taunting me pregame about pagetops. Outside of the first rl day I've only made two page top posts (because I kinda got bored and forgot about it). The fact that you are still pushing this one issue whilst largely ignoring the rest of my post confounds me.

I'm not so keen on lynching the ejji if he is making an effort rn, so would prefer to give him the opportunity to catchup and post, and I'll try to re-read his slot tomorrow.

I will do this in the meantime though
VOTE: Bujaber

like this one

[skitter30]

VOTE: NM
Trollylololol

HURT: duck

this vote did come out of nowhere tho

[skitter30]

Looking at A50s posts he was TRing duck, and was convinced CJ was scum. His scum pool was Frank (ejji) + CJV (NM) + HWS (Alonzo).

also i still don't get why a50 was killed here; maybe it was just fo rhis reads?

[skitter30]

You are literally begging to be vigged in 2077 and the only conclusion is you are bp.

this was also really weird from traitor!enigma's pov

[skitter30]

I was just thinking if we lynch scum today, we will mechanically win this. Assuming Alonzo and ruru are not lying, we have a lynch pool of six today. Alzono lives another day, assuming ruru actives bp tonight. Alzono can hard clear two slots before he is killed if there is only one scum remaining. In that case, we mechanically win even if we mislynch the next day.

Spoiler: if we lynch correctly today

town:scum ratio
6-1 (2 conf town) lynch scum
5-1 (2 conf town) nk ruru, alonzo confs 1 town
4-1 (2 conf town) mislynch
3-1 (2 conf town) nk alonzo, alzono can confs 1 town even if he dies by telling us who he is targeting
2-1 (2 conf town) gg scum, town wins

If we mislynch today, we should no lynch tomorrow as it is mylo. But this still means Alzono gets two shots at rbing, with a successful hit preventing the NK and getting a hard guilty.

yeah ok nm he was def thinking through the long-term implications of town!alonzo

[skitter30]

entirely possible that after we did lynch scum that day he decided to try to subvert this

[skitter30]

from enigma's end the bujaber/enigma interactions aren't really clearing imo

he has a tendency to say something along the lines of: I think bujaber and X are scum
and then push X or nobody at all

he never really pushes bujaber tbh

[skitter30]

I kinda feel like the mod scum took has to be between day talk and traitor? As I understand from the flips, both of the group scum have been lynched as goons and without mods. Now these were the two slots that got to decide on the mods, keeping in mind that they do/did not know who the traitor is/was pregame. Why would they give scum PR mods to the traitor rather than themselves? BP/JOAT/RC is useless for traitor as a single mod.

this feels weird, idk why

[skitter30]

^I would probably concede, self-vote, quit etc. if it happened again lol ... this game has been going on for too long

hmmmm

[skitter30]

yeah ok i'll do alonzo some point soonish (ie prob tom)

[skitter30]

viewtopic.php?f=51&t=76232&user_select% ... &start=200
^^^ kept bringing up the ruby nk in mylo

i thikn 'go here' is just a word choice (one that i was not particularly conscious of using actually). i'm pretty sure i've used that phrase before but i'd have to go looking and i don't know what alignment that is correlated to. and i don't know why

and wrt asking people in xylo if they like playing scum probably? again i'd have to go looking. i definitely as that but i don't know offhand at what point of the game i tend to do that

[skitter30]

viewtopic.php?p=10376044#p10376044
^^^ go here

i tend to use when i'm unsure where to vote

[skitter30]

let's add asking people in xylo if they like playing scum to the list too

yeah i can't find an example of this in xylo from the last six months or so and i don't really have patience to look earlier than that

[skitter30]

i still kinda townread enigma all in all
the things i don't like i listed above but like holistically i still think it's a town iso tbh

i was asking about whether or not he likes playing scum because he's been exhibiting game fatigue and i think it's slightly more likely to come from someone who doesn't really like their alignment (i don't think it's very much ai tho; he could just be like done with this game)

i think on some level you confuse people when you call things a throw when you mean 'playing suboptimal'; i don't think he views scum!him claiming bg as literally gamethrowing even if it might be suboptimal and that's what he thought you were asking him which is why he was confused

[skitter30]

yeah i started doing that in the n5 start pm too

that's part of the reason why i think i'm just townreading you - you feel a lot more emotional/real/raw (idk the right word exactly) than in the newbie; you were a lot more composed/methodological if that makes sense

[skitter30]

and i didn't get a good vibe/handle on enigma in the pyp game; it's harder for me to form those meta reads / mental pictures of playstyle from that side of things

and cold meta is ok but it's different from like ... actually playing with someone and remember what they did at various stages of the game and knowing all the context etc

[skitter30]

I read those like four times and i dont get it

Ok i want to read alonzo's iso tofay at some point and then i think ill be ready to vote

Right now im basically trying to figure out how annoyed ill be if i lynch town!enigma after defending him all game

[skitter30]

this is about the case where bujaber is lynched and there's one investigative above alonzo

i can't tell if this hypothetical is for scum!alonzo or town!alonzo

[skitter30]

and i didn't get a good vibe/handle on enigma in the pyp game; it's harder for me to form those meta reads / mental pictures of playstyle from that side of things

and cold meta is ok but it's different from like ... actually playing with someone and remember what they did at various stages of the game and knowing all the context etc

That's because you were scum playing me the whole time and were more focused in pulling the wool over my eyes for the whole game
btw, are you doing the same here?

nah

[skitter30]

i skimmed alonzo's iso and between the two i just feel like enigma's is a townier iso
it feels more sincere and real to me

off of associatives i don't think it's enigma but that's only a valid assumption if last scum isn't traitor and that's not a thing that i actually know to be true

[skitter30]

VOTE: HeWhoSwims

An old and storied tradition.

so as far as i can tell, brass has never done ye olde 'vote your buddy in rvs' thing

[skitter30]

he's also literally never completed a scumgame; as far as i can tell he replaced out of all of them

[skitter30]

The thing is Skitter if you truly believe that you are one of two things.

Wrong about ruru

Or the deepscum we are all looking for.

yeah i'm not very certain rn

i'm kinda stuck because i don't know how to use associatives and i keep forgetting that there may or may not be a traitor

[skitter30]

= I'd feel like I'd be more forgiving to newbies who don't really put forward reads or play unconventionally, while I'd expect less so from experienced players, but that's me

...we're gonna fight...

Let's not

this is the only time hws mentions or interacts with any of flipped scum

[skitter30]

Is MWNN brass?

yeah sorry, mwnn is a brassherald alt

[skitter30]

skitter surely we are at the point now where ruru is unstoppable as scum amirite?

Like there is no conceivable way to justify a lynch on that slot?

yeah i don't think it's her and i don't see myself voting for her like at all really

her scumgame would have had to change *a lot* for it to be her, and i don't think it's super likely with her playstyle

if it's her she can just win; she's probably the person i'd be the least peeved losing to (although i'd be annoyed for being that pocketed)

[skitter30]

this is about the case where bujaber isn't lynched and there's one investigative above alonzo

sorry i meant to highlight this one

[skitter30]

but the whole massclaim thing was my idea and I was widely townread so...

also my claim order ensured bujaber got lynched d3 and didn't get to fakeclaim so I was setting up this poe situation where my claim looks weird which is way harder than I'd have to try as scum

like I could literally just push massclaim because almost everyone seemed to agree, claim vt, bus bujaber, shoot alonzo, lynch irrel+performer, and the game would be over by now instead of 3:1

also as scum I would've shot you or lynched you by now

^^^^

@alonzo: basically why ruru is town; no reason to set up a situation where her claim looks weird; she can just avoid all of it by claiming vt

[skitter30]

also if alonzo is scum he'd have to be traitor, right? cuz if he were goon we'd have another pr claim

and traitor fake-claiming is even riskier than goon fake-claiming because he has no idea how many mods there are

incidentally in this game if he's scum he's traitor and so no mods were taken, but traitor!alonzo can't have known that day3; for all he knows scum took something like {daytalk, rolecop, JOAT}

so fake-claiming is really risky for traitor!alonzo because he doesn't even know how many mods there are

[skitter30]

@ skit Knowing I'm town, and having to believe ruru, we just need to lynch one of you/enigma and RB the other?

There wont be a kill and then the survivor is lynched next day.

well fo rme it's between you/enigma because i'm pretty sure ruru is just town

but for you yeah this is a fair pov if you're townreading that strongly too (are you?)

i'm pretty close to just wanting enigma

if i'm wrong that just loses the game overnight tho if you rb me

[skitter30]

logically it's just enigma

i don't really want to lynch enigma
but i can't really see myself laying down a vote for alonzo

[skitter30]

his iso is so townie tho :/

and i'm going to feel like an idiot voting town!enigma in lylo after deending him all game

i'll also feel really stupid not voting scum!enigma in lylo after defending him all game

[skitter30]

ruru is there a compelling reason to no-lynch today?

if not i think i'm just going to vote enigma

[skitter30]

I blocked performer again

This is outside of performers scum range as I understand it.
Pretty sure it's Korina at this point.

VOTE: Performer

This is against my better nature. I think Performers put in a good shift, but the evidence is what it is.

@alonzo can you explain why you voted performer here?

[skitter30]

yeah i'm just taking ruru out of it

[skitter30]

uh i don't understand the question, what do u mean?

[skitter30]

oh you meant out of sequence as in: voted him although you had rb'd performer the night before

cuz i was scumreading him more than performer and a rb guilty isn't a hard guilty
also his ate got to me and i'm pretty sure i wasn't actually on the lynch iirc

[skitter30]

i'm not really getting the vibe that enigma is trying to figure it out rn

i'm kinda feeling like emphasizing that he's confused and that he doesn't know who it is and defending himself

[skitter30]

meh i'm going to do it

VOTE: enigma

[skitter30]

i wanted to lynch him as the day went on but the ate felt real to me and i did the work of checking his bujaber/perfoermer theory and it looked more plausible than bujaber/irrel so i ultimately stayed off of it

[skitter30]

i wanted to lynch him but as the day went on but the ate felt real to me and i did the work of checking his bujaber/perfoermer theory and it looked more plausible than bujaber/irrel so i ultimately stayed off of it

ebwop

[skitter30]

i lowkey feel like if you were scum you would have voted already; idk why i think that

[skitter30]

what does 'chimps out' mean?

[skitter30]

i'm not really getting the vibe that enigma is trying to figure it out rn

i'm kinda feeling like emphasizing that he's confused and that he doesn't know who it is and defending himself

I've been waiting a bit to see where everyone comes to actually because I'm lazy to read ISOs.

I'm pretty sure ruru aint scum.
If you are scum, you would want to push an alonzo lynch (else you have to deal with his rb tonight to finish the game which is just unnecessary tormenting). I'm sure scum!skitter could make logic to sell any case. So with your last few posts town+

Leaving probably Alonzo as scum (and I acknowledge this looks terrible for town!me since I have the same wincon as you... )

i guess what's bothering me about this is that you feel very defensive and not like protractive in lylo

like i'm kinda getting the vibe that you don't know where to push rn so you're just falling back on 'i'm confused'

[skitter30]

like you feel kinda resigned and not like 'omg skitter and alonzo one of you are town why are you voting me rn'

[skitter30]

this page also makes me feel better about town!alonzo

[skitter30]

i have a really good track record of not getting mislynched

only twice
only in lylo
only while i was v/la
and it hasn't happened since may

so i'd kinda prefer not just for like my own ego kinda

and like agreeing to lynch myself in mylo feels really really really wrong

like i'm feeling a lot better about you rn and i'm pretty sure that's a path to victory and like i guess logically i'm ok with it but it leaves a bad taste in my mouth if that makes sense

[skitter30]

like i guess if you + ruru really really want to do that i'm ok with it

but i don't want to just for keeping my streak intact

[skitter30]

yeah i get that; i tend to weigh who i'd rather lose to and how much of an idiot i'll feel like if i'm wrong to in lylo

i'm pretty sure it's just enigma from your behavior since i laid the vote down

idk. i'd really prefer not to just for like the sake of my streak
i'll do it i guess if both of you want to (honestly at that point it's not like my opinion matters; enigma will jump on that if he's scum)
like intellectually i understand why its a path to win if we accept town!ruru but i don't want to do it that way

i admit that this is entirely my ego talking

[skitter30]

i guess that's also kinda selfish of me given that i'm pretty sure it's just enigma

[skitter30]

either way i'm pretty sure i'm keeping the 'voting right in xylo' streak going at least

[skitter30]

no i really just don't want this to be a thing because i'm proud of my streak

and i'm just a little peeved that you'd prefer to go me -> enigma over enigma -> me

[skitter30]

i'm pretty sure on town!alonzo from how he reluctant he became when i voted

it's more paranoia than scum!him needs to have here; he could have just voted and waited for me to convince you or whatever

[skitter30]

like if he's scum he doesn't actually care if it's me or enigma because he just won

as i typed htis i realized he doesn't because you're a bg

scum!alonzo doesn't just win here if we lynch, the night happens no matter what if we don't lynch scum today i'm pretty sure

[skitter30]

like proposing to me seems more stemming from paranoia imo than trying to get in mislynches

[skitter30]

nm i'm forgetting what a bg

[skitter30]

uh it's not like this is something i'm in the context of to worry about most of the time
i very rarely have to deal with serious attempts to mislynch me

[skitter30]

Ugh... Its just Im not a great dancer...

I think we gotta go Skitter then Enigma..

and why this order?

from your pov the order doesn't actually matter

[skitter30]

uh i don't think i had a change of heart; i very clearly said i didn't want that when you first proposed it
explain where i 180'd

was anyone seriously proposing mislynching me in endgame in any of those games . no, i wasn't, so why is that remotely relevant to this scenario

viewtopic.php?p=10251790#p10251790
viewtopic.php?p=10087873#p10087873
viewtopic.php?p=10087891#p10087891

^^^^ the last one is basically where im at
i don't want it to happen because i'm proud of my streak
there isn't a good reason for it to happen from your pov as far as i can tell
i also feel like i've solved the game so i'm not sure it really matters but that doesn't mean i have to like it

[skitter30]

like i never mentioned it before in a game with you because it wasn't relevant

i don't understand why your'e calling that a change of heart or why that's scummy

[skitter30]

but its the asolute must do for town! us.

explain

[skitter30]

you're not explaining why

[skitter30]

(or, more accurately, you're not explaining why me -> enigma and not the other way around)

i dont' get why the order matters to town!you

[skitter30]

whatever

i think i've solved the game

i don't think it actually matters

i will be incredibly pissed if i get paranoia mislynched in mylo and have my streak broken

[skitter30]

see that's not actually a good consolation prize for me cuz i don't actually care about my winloss record

i care about solving the game (which is not the same thing as winning)
i care about not getting mislynched

[skitter30]

i'm not really motivated by winning (and that's partially why i don't care about scum as much; winning a scumgame doesn't really feel like an achievement to me)

i care about solving the game and being able to say i told you so after

[skitter30]

i don't really view that as a distinction

town!me does care; i already said this is all ego and like i'm aware that i'm not entirely looking at this rationally

[skitter30]

you're incredibly annoying me

especially if you're actually town here

[skitter30]

you're basically trying to make me feel better by calling it a mechanical solve instead of a mislynch while also calling me scum but have no reason for lynching me rn over enigma besides paranoia

[skitter30]

like i said before i don't see how the order actually affects a mechanical solve

[skitter30]

whatever it doesn't actually matter so i don't know why it's pissing me off so much

[skitter30]

Which we could have already done by this point I hasten to add...

also i think you're kinda exagerrating here, but whatever

[skitter30]

why the fuck would i vote myself

[skitter30]

like if you want to lynch me you have to convince ruru and if she wants it and you're town i can't exactly stop you

but i'm not helping you end the game by voting myself

[skitter30]

i think lynching me over enigma todya is annoying

i think self-voting is literally asinine

[skitter30]

cuz i'm annoyed that you're treating me as collateral damage either way

i've literally never self-voted and like i'm not about to start to lynch myself in mylo

[skitter30]

Please just vote yourself off and assure ruru its fine to do the same,

Ruru and I can literally declare intent to do our night actions and our votes for the next day RN and its wrapped up..

please.

also to accelrate the night you'd need enigma to say that he's cool with it too

your'e also assuming i'm going to flip town here

[skitter30]

no, i want the game to end very much; my interest in having the game continue is like null
but this is a stupid and silly thing i care about and i'm not going to like help you lynch myself

i also don't think mods will accelerate the night without everyone's consent

[skitter30]

whatever

i'm aware that if you're town it's just a mechanical solve

that doesn't mean i have to literally lynch myself and like, no, that's not a thing i'm doing

[skitter30]

yes, you've figured it out, i'm a joat that's no-killed for two nights and still has the strongman shot, yep

[skitter30]

Town you must see the threat you present by being alive...

like i said like six times i'm aware that i'm not being rational

[skitter30]

as you could kill me tonight and mislynch rur tomorrow claiming she couldn't be the BG.

and yep, with my trajectory on her she's a totally valid mislynch option for scum!me tomorrow, yep

[skitter30]

honestly unless you flip scum i'm going to be incredibly annoyed with you

i'll get over it shortly thereafter and like yeah i'm aware this is stupid and silly and not rational but apparently this is a thing i care about

and no i'm not literally voting myself in mylo

[skitter30]

i guess i won't protest that much if all three of you want that but i don't think it's reasonable of you to ask me to selfvote

[skitter30]

i mean i want the game to end but like self-voting is just wrong

hastening a lynch that i know to be town is just wrong

[skitter30]

ok i think i've gotten over my annoyance

i can understand why if you're town a mechanical solve makes sense to you
i can understand why you're paranoid of me

i was getting annoyed because from my pov if you're town enigma -> skitter is equally valid as skitter -> enigma and has the benefit of probably winning the game, whereas i know skitter -> enigma doesn't and for me uses up one of the mislynches that could be used to solve it. from my pov {enigma/alonzo} is where scm is nearly always and like i don't want to waste a mislynch on me in case its scum you. i don't think it's very likely but i dont want to actively lose a mislynch by lynching myself because that's dumb

i shouldn't have gotten annoyed because it's a game and it doesn't actually matter but like it's what i actually care about, solving the game and not getting mislynched

i think my reaction was more annoyed than it should have been tho

sorry

[skitter30]

surely you see its better than a no lynch which is the road you will force us down..

uh lynching me is literally never better than a no lynch from my pov

[skitter30]

oh fuck i hadn't actually thought that far as to who dies if we nolynch today

i don't really want to be in you/enigma/me lylo either, that sounds torturous

[skitter30]

Ok, still dancing to rurs beat. Ruru you choose please before me and skitter kill each other..

^^^^^^

[skitter30]

...JOAT aside I'd have my result...

Joat its already over...

there can't even be a JOAT; two goons flipped already; joat means they took two mods (recruit traitor + JOAT) and there's only three pr claims

why are you even talking about a joat

[skitter30]

yeah i think it's just enigma tbh

[skitter30]

yeah i'm aware

if he's scum it doesn't matter who gets lynched today
enigma is easier for him to push; idk if he bothers with this if he's scum

if he's town i know i'm town so i prefer enigma -> me because than the game ends and i keep my streak going (i guess i'm kinda over it whatever)

if he's scum than lynching me is dumb from my pov because i'm town and the game just ends

[skitter30]

it's right that he just wins if he's scum and there's a lynch today, right?

[skitter30]

but she's a bg and just dies if scum kills the person she's guarding (which leaves the protectee and scum alive and so scum just win?)

or am i missing something

[skitter30]

like I don't know what half of you guys' posts are about it seems like you're living in an alternate mechanical universe rn

yeah reading back i don't think iw as very rational and i don't know how much sense i was making

[skitter30]

jeez now I have to re-motivation-read all of alonzo's play with the idea of me being a doctor

I hate this game

well i was thinking that if he thinks he doesn't win if scum!him gets a mislynch today, i don't think that staying off of enigma is +town in that circumstance inherently

[skitter30]

No, thats not right, as scum I'd still have to outplay rurus block

i'm pretty sure that if you're scum you just win by mislynching anyone

so if you're scum you dont' care if it's me or enigma and enigma is easier so pushing for me is +town

but you apparently think that you still might have to play 3way as scum in which case you need to get both of us if you're going to stick with town!ruru so pushing for me is not +town, might even be +scum

[skitter30]

UNVOTE:

[skitter30]

/le sigh

[skitter30]

no i'm not laying down because self-voting in mylo is dumb irregardless of my alignment

[skitter30]

i mean from my pov if it's not enigma it's just you

like everything you're saying depends on you being town

[skitter30]

and i thought i had a solid reason for townreading you but apparently i don't because you didn't know what a bg does

i still think it's just enigma tbh tho

[skitter30]

yeah scum!me just loses in ruru/alonzo/me since alonzo becomes conftown by virtue of the game not ending

i ahven't actually thought out all the various three-ways

[skitter30]

yeah i really shouldn't have gotten that annoyed about it or spammed the thread

sorry

[skitter30]

i'm kinda back at enigma

if i vote and alonzo is scum that's game

i always get really really nervous casting the vote that determines the game

[skitter30]

from my pov it's enigma/alonzo tho

like from your pov i get that's a happy ever after but i know that isn't a thing that can happen so i'm worried about alonzo just winning

[skitter30]

are you really that confident that it isn't alonzo?

[skitter30]

ok then

VOTE: enigma

[skitter30]

were you scum?

[skitter30]

my heart was beating the whole time it was locked lol

[skitter30]

i feel kinda silly defending enigma all game

[skitter30]

also finally since this game has been going on forever

[skitter30]

?

[skitter30]

oh wait did i defend her for most of the game in pick your poison too?

[skitter30]

also bujaber did a really good job pushing him then because i really didn't think they were groupscum together

[skitter30]

oh wait did i defend her for most of the game in pick your poison too?

we both did, it was for like similar guile-less-ness I think

she also pocketed me effectively there and enigma pocketed me effectively here

[skitter30]

So I lied. I RB'd ruru last night...

Dont judge me =)

i thought that blocking korina was weird and your reason was kinda weak
why didn't you just inno her?

p-edit: yeah i agree; he did very well and had two people townreading him like throughout the game

[skitter30]

and sorry for getting super annoyed earlier
idk why i did and i wasn't really being rational

ruru you were fine

[skitter30]

it's ok!

i got over it at some point, sorry for freaking out on you!

and idk once i townread ruru she was just ... super hard town

[skitter30]

also: insert massive context-free skitter30 appreciation moment here which i've been holding off on due to this game being ongoing

?

[skitter30]

also sorry irrel

i felt super bad for tunneling you for like three dayphases :/

[skitter30]

also enigma you did a really good job just soldiering on here; you were in a pretty tough spot

[skitter30]

Subject: Open 737: Stack the Deck (Dead PT)

What's skitter doing considering a Traitor!Enigma here? If Enigma is scum he can't be a Traitor bc there are 2 claimed PRs (and one that already flipped), so he must be a goon. Otherwise, one of the claimed PRs is actually fake. I can understand her reluctance to pinpoint one of the 3 to say "that's the scum", but what I can't understand is her considering Enigma might be a Traitor!

i thought daytalk + un-recruited traitor = 3 town prs

[skitter30]

also yeah ithink i overthought it too much

i tend to get really paranoid in mylo and instead of just lynching the obvious answer i find myself like adding everyone to the potential lynchpool

[skitter30]

also thank you ofrhz for doing such an awesome job modding