Open 737: Stack the Deck (Game Over)

[Korina]

Hiya guys
I'm gonna be posting from my main, only because I'd rather have all my games be under one account, and so that way I don't have to keep hitting my bookmarks, I'll reply from where I left off later.

Just got out of the shower.

I'm still Vex, I'm just wanting to play from main.

[Korina]

Some thoughts so far:
Don't really like Alonzo, still don't like tw.

Pending re-reads on everyone.
Alonzo I don't really like only because there should be at least some strong reads in that pile, not the "everyone is null/leans".
The reads feel really safe and feel like there's an easy way out if he ever gets called out.

I feel like Town is more likely to try to stick to a hard angle (strongly reading someone) versus scum who're more likely to not take a hard angle on others, only so they can easily get out of it later.

[Korina]

Korina replaces Vex Vience

wolfy

I mean, it's more for my own sake.
I know I have to post if I can see with all my other posts that there are actually new posts I should reply to.

[Korina]

For today, I'd be fine with seeing {Alonzo, tw, Gamma} hanged.

@mod Enigma needs a prod as well

.

Gamma hasn't really done a whole lot to change my view of him being scum
Alonzo I just said, he has really weak feeling reads that really feel non-committal.
tw is just... tw just feels scummy in general.

Any one of them is a good lynch today IMO.
It also really feels like we're battling apathy here, (probably due to all the replaceouts).

pedit:

I never lean hard town on anyone who Isn't mod confirmed.

Doesn't really matter to me. I see that as scummy regardless.
It makes your reads feel really non-committal.
With hard-reading someone, if you try to change it, you're gonna get resistance from that.
With leans, you're really not gonna get a whole lot of resistance, making it a lot easier to actually change your reads and not really have to explain them.

[Korina]

I don't find the fact they're TL;DR reads scummy.
I find the fact you have no strong reads scummy.
I could care less if you had strong reads and posted a TL;DR read-list.

[Korina]

tw is just...

I can't be bothered sorting him

ftfy

Oi, stop trying to change what I said
smh

[Korina]

I don't use meta arguments.
Looking at my own meta, it really shows why its bad to look at meta arguments in general.

Plus, this game is different than that game, why should I try to compare two different time periods together to see how they overlap?

[Korina]

Alright, I'll reformat some reads of mine, and sit down during my first few periods and actually work on them

Ignoring all other RL responsibilities I actually have like a project due Thursday, that I haven't started

[Korina]

Currently have a really bad headache.
My replies are delayed until I can think straight and don't feel like my head will explode.

[Korina]

Korina whos next?

tw if you haven't already, if not, do GE

[Korina]

Korina whos next?

tw if you haven't already, if not, do GE

:blinks slowly:

:blinks even slower:

[Korina]

Traitor + groupscum left because cjv flipped goon.

But why do you assume scum didn't recruit traitor?

Because IMO that's a waste of a modifier.
And that also gives Town a greater chance of goon cop, (and for the GC to find an actual goon), unless scum takes extra modifiers to try to prevent the goon-cop from getting guilty, however that comes with the risk of town getting

more

prs.

Realistically, scum wouldn't want that chance, so they'd leave traitor as traitor.

[Korina]

Slowly working on them.
Trying to parse through TW's iso and all the posts I grabbed from it...
which was basically a huge portion of them.

[Korina]

Also trying to figure out how I wanna go about reading Irrelephant considering that's the third replacement for that slot, and it just seems to be getting townier each replacement.

[Korina]

I mean, ignoring the catching up, I'm more interested in what you have to say/have been posting.
Also, care to explain why you think Buj isn't traitor?

[Korina]

@Irrelephant
I'm in school.
Do you really expect me to work on reads while the teacher is teaching, meaning I can get in trouble for not working on school stuff?

I was looking through Ruru's ISO before needing to take a break, and other classes called.

[Korina]

Here's the TL;DR version of my reads, I'll be able to explain my reasoning sometime later, currently in school, and have a few projects/other things I gotta do today. Don't really expect me to be doing a whole lot with it as well until sometime later.

I also taken all the quotes I want for the wall reads yet, but have a general idea of what ones I wanna use.

Spoiler:

{creature, myself,

a50

}

{skitter}

{ruru, buj, enigma}

{irrelephant}

- null

{alonzo, gamma}

{tw}

{

nm

}

[Korina]

@skitter I started to get burned out from midday-1 only because the game was starting to drag on a bit, plus people started replacing out.
I've been less active today mainly because burn-out from everyone replacing out, my EISAL game I'm working on, in addition to school stuff. Going into D3, assuming we don't have a sheer number of replaceouts again nor just general apathy towards this game, I should be relatively active like I was early D1.

Another thing, faking town effort as scum is hard for me. I'm more concerned with giving away my partners as scum, which shows by me being more reserved in my posting, (or lack of posts), and me appearing to be awkward or nervous. Making giant walls as scum is just generally hard for me. Even in IRL games, it's hard for me to be active as scum. The times I am active as scum however, it's normally hollow work—its just me trying to look town for the sake of not getting SR'd.

I try to post as little as possible as scum to avoid giving away partners and to avoid accidentally slipping. If I do try posting a lot, my posts are normally heavily edited to try to mask my true goals. Contrast that with town!me, in which case, I just end up saying whatever I see going on. I don't have scum-buddies to give away, and to me, it doesn't really matter if I get hanged or NK'd. My goal is to try to draw the NK away from the people I think are town regardless if I'm VT or a TPR.

Buj is right on the other part of my scum-meta, (at least, I think it was Buj who said that): My posts feel much more awkward as scum. I don't realize that, but others certainly do. This is something I'm genuinely curious on, do any of my posts feel awkward to you Skitter?

Also, one of the other things I'd like to point out against me being scum: If I'm scum, and I know that I'm being universally TR'd, why would I choose to kill A50, not Creature? Scum!Me would know that any TPRs wouldn't bother wasting their night on me. They simply wouldn't. Why bother trying to check/rb/track/guard/shoot me when there are better targets to go after? Why would I try to kill a supposed TPR, instead of a confirmed TPR when he said that his hope was that if he was inactive, that scum would leave him alone?

Why wouldn't I have NK'd Creature when I know that 100% of the time, I could successfully do it? Sure, BG could flip and then we have Creature still alive, however, that means the next night, I'm guaranteed to kill another TPR, meaning that I'd know exactly

how many

TPRs Town would have left.

Now, before you try to say "What if you're Traitor?", (because that'd mean I can't have a say in the NK), Traitor is a role I've never played as before. I would know both other scum-buddies, but they wouldn't know who I am. I'd be more awkward trying to play Traitor rather than Goon, (something I've played as before IRL). Wouldn't I also want to try to signal to my buddies who I am, so they know

not

to NK me by accident? I also said that I don't really know any of you. I've barely played with you Skitter, A50, and Buj. I've obviously tried bettering my play-style from those games.
Hell, that was the entire purpose of Vex: An account that I could use just to prove to myself that I'm actually a decent FM player.

The other thing is as Traitor, I'd be more cautious to not out my buddies on accident, versus group-scum where at worst, I accidentally out the other, (assuming traitor isn't recruited). If I were to roll traitor under Vex, I'd still try to signal that I'm traitor somehow.
Final thing: I certainly would

not

want to switch to my main, (much less out my main, nor even try to hint at who my main was), if I rolled scum. Why? Because I know the exact second I say I'm Korina as scum, (or switched to this account), my meta gets double-checked, and then it gets determined I'm actually scum based on my posting.

That's not to say my switch to my main (or me outing myself) is tactical in any way shape or form (to try to confirm me as town). Vex served its purpose much earlier than I really intended for it to: I proved to myself that I'm a decent FM player. I also switched to my main because I didn't really wanna have to switch between two accounts; Vex for this game alone and this account for literally all other games.

[Korina]

okay so there's also another meta reason I'm scumreading bujaber but I don't want to say it right now

Why not?

[Korina]

ppedit: oh hey korina's back

For the current moment I am.
I have a few minutes rn before having to head home from school for the day.

[Korina]

Versus who? Anyone?

[Korina]

Eh, I didn’t see anything in his ISO that made me really feel like hanging him.
If we’re at deadline, and we don’t have a better option, yea, sure, I’d be fine with hanging him.
Otherwise I don’t really see why lynching him is better than someone else.

My plan is to go look back at Mutant’s Jungle Republic and see how Buj’s posting style compares to this game. I think I was TRing him in that game, and if my reasoning for his TR there is the same as here, I’m willing to lynch him under the presumption he’s scum.
I also highly doubt that Buj is

that

good to the point where he can play the exact same way as town or scum.

[Korina]

wait wow let's talk more about this
@anyone thinking scum didn't bus
NM flipped and then so did A50
That means you think scum:
A] were both voting Gamma Emerald
or
B] were Gamma Emerald and one of the people voting Gamma Emerald (meaning only two votes at EOD were not on scum)

So scum like almost definitely bussed? Which is already the conclusion to make when they shoot off wagon...
Which I guess makes my argument that tw didn't bus sound dumber
Maybe it is dumber
I still think he's a suboptimal lynch for riding the slot across two wagons and all the way to lynch

But since yeah, scum almost definitely bussed, my argument for it being one of enigma/skitter/ruru/vex makes sense again
I still think enigma is the most likely, but I've kind of been operating on "this looks enough like townskitter" without going in depth there
ditto ruru, though I don't know ruru's meta much at all (just sheeping it)

Like @world what do you think about this eod vc? Gamma looks sorta towny for it

I'm not sure what to make of the "did scum bus or not" thing, part of me 100% agrees that scum were on NM's wagon, considering the second he replaced in we already wanted to PL him.
I don't think it was Ruru who was trying to bus, nor Skitter. I know it certainly wasn't me.
That leaves Enigma...
Enigma's vote on NM was L-1, and all Enigma put was "Trollylololol".
There was no L-1 announcement for that vote.

Enigma has to be the scum out of that, only by POE, unless ofrhz really screwed up and hasn't fixed it.

guys why are we punishing tw for flipping scum in our reads?
Like if we flip green once or twice and we're confused then we should probably challenge our assumptions,,,
But until then anyone who's pushing tw for TMI-ing the lynch is also just punishing good town play if he's town (which RNG says he is likely to be)

Like one time tw survived till near endgame as SK by actually shooting most of the scumteam
If he's scum and wants his own team dead let's sheep him, not kill him

anyway
I'm still not totally caught up but I don't understand tw scumreads rn

IMO RNG is not a valid excuse for townreading duck.
Bussing one partner is a thing. Bussing both partners a bit more risky. CJV/NM was a doomed slot.
Not sure how duck read CJV so strongly when he was site flaking and barely had any posts here.

This is agenda-ey
anyone who disagrees is bad
@Korina @Creature thoughts on Enigma's play like right now?

Currently re-evaluating Enigma. Don't really like the "TW is town by RNG" point

Not_Mafia (7): the worst, ruru, skitter30,

Vex Vience

, Creature,

Enigma

,

ejjinami

LYNCH

it just kinda dawned on me that we're really bad if we lynch off wagon l m a o

viable d2 lynches bolded

You do realize that I'm Vex, and you literally just asked me for my opinion on something, right?

started

W A L L
O F
W I F O M
A N D
S E L F
M E T A

How is it wifom-y?
Also, if you want my honest thought process TW, that was it.
Sorry, but that's my thought process on that one.

Eh, I didn’t see anything in his ISO that made me really feel like hanging him.
If we’re at deadline, and we don’t have a better option, yea, sure, I’d be fine with hanging him.
Otherwise I don’t really see why lynching him is better than someone else.

My plan is to go look back at Mutant’s Jungle Republic and see how Buj’s posting style compares to this game. I think I was TRing him in that game, and if my reasoning for his TR there is the same as here, I’m willing to lynch him under the presumption he’s scum.
I also highly doubt that Buj is

that

good to the point where he can play the exact same way as town or scum.

who else
why not
who else
hurry up w meta reads if you're gonna do them
who else

ufhfdhdhdjdjfnfmkf this is shameless stalling

I don't like reading people via meta. I'll read people via typing style, but not how they're playing.
Typing style is much harder to manipulate IMO.
You can change how you're gonna act, but its harder to change how you're gonna say something unless you edit it to hell, which if you do that to all your posts? That means it takes so much longer to actually get out posts.

I want to know why he townread me that game actually That game was multi-ball it was easy to fake scumhunt because I was actually scumhunting. But it didn't really fly with most.

Y'know, I'm not actually sure what my thought process was on TRing you in that game.

[Korina]

except that he constantly blurts that lurking is his scum meta?
?_?

I think that's the definition of WIFOm

Did you even read it?
Please be honest for the whole class.
Did you even read a single portion of that post?

[Korina]

@Mod V/LA for 48 hours

Will reply when I have a moment

[Korina]

VOTE: gamma

Alright

[Korina]

@Ofrhz, I'm playing under Korina, not vex

fixed

[Korina]

Hypo-Inno: Buj is good.

[Korina]

I don't like TW's hammer post as well.

I'll start to try to case TW/Enigma in a bit.

[Korina]

Why are you TRing TW, Irrel?

[Korina]

I'm catching up rn, was asleep/busy all of yesterday.

[Korina]

Alright, tring TW a bit more seeing their thought process.
I'm also gonna have to come back to this game when I don't feel like crap nor have several tests to study for, (so probably later today after a nap).

I'll be thinking about the game until then though

[Korina]

Is everybody here ok with a hydra replacing into a slot? If not, let me know either in thread or by PM in the next, say, 20 hours.

Replacing who?

Well on another note I’m sorta townreading enigma’s most recent posts
Which I recognize would be convenient timing if he’s my partner but I especially like his point about how to catch skitter late game
I’m approaching a place where no scumteam makes strong sense to me except maybe tw/BuJ with tw as traitor
I’d have to be right about the replacement being nai

Anyway that’s where my heads at

Korina where you at

I'm here, having friends over rn, will post thoughts when they leave.
Computer died between last night when I was working on thoughts and rn, so, I'll re-work them once they leave and I have a shower and stuff.

[Korina]

I'll post it in the morning when I have a clear mind on it.
Currently looking through posts (around 96-98), and I'm not seeing anything that's pinging me, which is my cue that I'm clearly doing things wrong.

[Korina]

Alright, I'm up now, working on my thoughts of the last several pages + reads.

[Korina]

Alright, I'm up now, working on my thoughts of the last several pages + reads.

is this happening ... ?

Yea, I got really busy when I was taking a break, and didn't get a chance to work on it. Currently continuing it. Sorry in advance for it taking so long!

I'm personally fine with whatever we decide to do.

[Korina]

where do u think we should be lynching today?

To be completely honest, I'm not sure where I'd be wanting to lynch here today.
I'd have to re-evaluate my reads overall to decide that.

VOTE: Alonzo

Dogshit

my reads are also dogshit. Lets talk.

Alright, what do you wanna talk about?

===

The following posts are just naked votes from ruru, which I personally don't like. Care to explain them ruru?

VOTE: bujaber

VOTE: the worst

VOTE: ofrhz

I heard her move during the night.

VOTE: the worst

VOTE: the worst

====

I will be actually playing the game now

You weren't before...?

so, I still think bujaber is scum

bujaber is regularly a highposter as town and even excluding the replacement and v/la timings his posts per day are just lower than expected and it feels like he's not really doing much

despite this, other people who also weren't doing much (gamma/enigma) had much more shade thrown on them which makes me think it's a scum agenda thing.

oh, and I guess gamma also attempted to cfd bujaber d1 so there's that

Spoiler:

Can't blame skitter for just sheeping.

Took a long time for y'all to see it.
VOTE: gamma
L-1

this is a scummy post

the bolded doesn't sound like town talking to a scumread

I feel like tw should be easier to townread by now. I'm getting paranoid because imo his strength lies in knowing how to not appear scummy moreso than trying to look townie. That's my impression from giyga's curse. He won because people didn't really have a reason to suspect him.

this post is dubious

I guess something along these lines:

{Creature, me}
{Vex}
{A50, skitter}
{Ruru, TW}
-----null line----
{Gamma, cjv}
{Enigma}
{HWS, Frank}

Lol who puts themselves in their own readlist

Did I hit a nerve?

this feels like an over-acted response, he had also called enigma a policy lynch iirc and enigma's post isn't scummy at all

it reminds me of some of the fake scumhunting I did as scum where I just threw shade on things in a way that isn't useful to sorting people

Yea, I actually do agree. I'm not really getting the same vibes as Jungle Republic for example, I feel like he's more aggressive as scum, and willing to throw more shade than what I've really seen so far.
I'm planning on ISO diving him later however.

VOTE: bujaber

The only thing I'm sure of here is that skitter and Vex are town. But korina has since really dropped his posting and enthusiasm which is meh but like I really don't think he can pull of the townspamming as scum. Particularly the parts where he's so sure he's on par with creature on the NK-attractiveness scale.

I mean, you were in FFB with me. You have a pretty good idea of what my scum-meta really is.
Very short, (awkward) posts, mostly lurking, etc.
Contrast that with my town play, which is literally the exact opposite thing, (at least in terms of activity, and length of posts).

Another thing I saw when looking through my scum-games (for another game), I realized that I ignore my partners. In FFB, I ignored all of Lovebird's posts. I didn't address her at all.

In NOIR, I acknowledged that NM existed, however, that was one post and I didn't reply to any of his other posts nor did I reply to MD's posts.

Also, if you're gonna try to say "what if I didn't know that" or "well I still could be groupscum":
1) I actually didn't realize that before looking at it for another game. If I did, I would've said that.
2) I did reply to Ceejay, however, I can't really address a lurking slot.

oh, so in other news, we have different options today and I'm not sure which is best:
1. massclaim
2. no lynch, massclaim tomorrow
3. lynch, massclaim tomorrow (if green)

I'm not sure if #3 is that good actually

I tentatively like #1 I think?

Why do you like #1?
I'm personally fine with #2.

like it's possible there are too many innos on lynchable players for us to effectively play the game today and that

plus a few other things are making me interested in just massclaiming today

Like?

because only the traitor would know they can't get cleared by a flip

actually I guess technically groupscum might know this too if they recruited traitor

in any case it's scummy

Wdym?
I'm not following here.

the main issue with no lynch is that if a roleblocker exists it's extremely bad.

Lynching today without a massclaim seems wrong

I'm thinking we should massclaim rb/vig at the very least

I'm still not following how NLing with RBer is bad.
I get the "if RBer blocks NK" thing, but is that really

that

bad?

yeah okay the worst can be scum

How so? I'm leaning null-town on TW/Preformer atm.

Where's korina

Right here

kinda think alonzo is town tbh

How are you getting there? I'm kinda seeing it, but not fully.

I am not used to seeing the quality of your posting and reads GO DOWN in later day phases. in my experience you've been like a beacon of lucidity; you're meant to make sense when other people don't. (yes, from both scumming against you and sky's jester game to an extent)

You've dropped back to tunnelling and shitposting. You can't keep a stable vote. When asked to explain your reads you squirm.

What's up with you here?

Ngl, I actually agree with this post in general, (the later part at least). I'm not sure how I'm counting this in general, but, it's certainly something to keep note of.

I don't trust korina because I can't think the way he thinks which always leaves me like "this is a wolf right" and after noir I find it really hard to back down from this.

This is a post I generally wanted to reply to, @tw, if you're still reading the game, I don't mind discussing why you find my thought process scummy, but, I actually agree with this. I've had several others tell me before (namely in IRL games) that my thought process is so weirdly different, that it's hard to think how I do.

i am very angery with myself for survivalistically hammering gamma right now
day two of this game was really fucking stupid. enigma is a wolf.

i'm sorry but opening the game with "intent to shitpost and grab pagetops" is not towny. it's not tonally towny, it's not laissez-faire, it's not carefree, it's an excuse to prodge. it is dead null at most.

first game related comment I can see (barring setup spec bc he said nothing noteworthy during it) is:

Hey guys I'm traitor no shoot pls

VOTE: Almost50

I would be so upset if later this we find out that you weren't joking with this lol

traitor fishing, shortly followed by

Suppose you're a scum at L1 and you have to decide what to claim, you have information that town will probably believe n+1 PRs existing, so you claim PR

a response to the player who he's traitor fishing, followed by

If scum really claimed pr every time then town could just confirm themselves by claiming vt

Hypothetically yes, but unfortunately town has a tendency to lynch VTs claims and let TPRs get off...
Another thing is that there is very little defence once a TPR is outed in this set up. No docs, watchers, JKs, etc. Bodyguard is less than ideal - i.e. very little to discourage scum NKing TPRs if they CC.

Why wouldn't scum just fake claim regardless of our discussion, claiming VT doesn't really help them out at L-1 anyways so at least could just take their chances with a CC bait or potentially get away with it?

a response to the player who he's traitor fishing, followed by

i like ruru's entrance

Explain?

also ....
pedit: sigh

asking someone to explain their read on the player who he's traitor fishing.
like this is literally either "shitposting w ruru bc ruru is funny" or it's a wolf who smells a traitor and is excited.

someone else please tell me if you feel another motivation to his game entrance here. i know it's page 4 but like game mindsets have a tendency to spew a lot about where a person's at entering the thread so if someone wants to work thru what's going on here without being like "but the woooorst it's only page foooour" i'd be super happy ♥♥

I actually do agree with this post from TW. I'm not sure I would call Enigma as being scum solely on this post, however, I do agree that Enigma trying to take the pagetops isn't particularly helpful.

im assuming that creature just gets obvtowned early on?

If he steals ma page tops, ima lynch him

pretty funny my pred gets flak for this but Engima gets away with it
whatever i'm just being salty. other important part of his entrance is incoming:

Actually thanks vex that’s quite useful. I was too lazy to look myself, partly because of what you mentioned about mods not flipping on post 0.

What’s interesting is that it’s 15 games, so from glance of numbers the average no of mods per game is quite low.

thanks to vex during setup spec for providing hard figures; not a lot to read into but i'm tryna follow his mindset as below so worth throwing in

Early *serious* read alert: Vex is likely town. I did the exact same thing (speculating about what scum might have picked) when I played this setup for the first time. It's not a *strong* TR bc there is a scum motive to do it (and I'd really rather not speaking of that right now) but I'd like to think of him as a townie for a starting point.

yeah i agree overall

Even considering that he’s an alt?

there's...not really a reason to shade the fact Vex exists here fmpov?
like the fact he's an alt doesn't really inform my read of vex come p4. the only thing it does for me (knowing he's korina) is suggests i'm prolly gonna reach a net wolfread because i don't know how to get into his head.

the shade throw is wonky. but let's be positive and treat it as a #staywoke moment.

responses incoming

Spoiler:

i don't know who he's an alt of, but i think his mindset has been pro-town for this stage of the game

y would me being an alt change people tring me?

It’s likely that you might have experience with such setups. I’m pretty meh towards early reads anyways

also question
how would my experience (or lack there of) change anything about tring me?

Anyways I got my page tops from ofrhz and I’m satisfied so I better stop refreshing this thread continuously

yee it kinda goes without saying something is missing from enigma's presence in this conversation
like...any intent to sort whatsoever

also enigma are u just generally against alts?
im getting that feeling from u

Nah doesn't bother me so much, meta only takes you so far when scumhunting

I think it's like actively antitown because it informs scum's decision of what to claim

Whilst I don't think its super productive, agree with Vex its fine to boot us out of RVS. I wouldn't say its helping scum unless people are literally softclaiming their TPRs, in which case helping scum CC is the least of our worries...

is fine talking w Vex basically 100% NAI interaction with no intent of sorting, and then

pageget

VOTE: Vex

i'm not really vibing that town!igma added the "what if he's an alt!" shade into the Vex conversation and then lolvotes him about 50 posts later. especially when he shows like no active interest in sorting the slot and voteparks this for like a week (ending below)

1. Don't CC any fake claims
2. Vote for who you want to (hypo) vig with hurt tags
3. Hypo cop results tomorrow

UNVOTE:
Waiting a bit

I also agree on this post, the entire "what if he's an alt?" post just feels off. It feels like a cheap attempt at trying to throw suspicion on me followed by a flimsy reasoning to justify that. So what if I do actually have experence in these types of setups? That literally has no over-all effect on how players should be reading me.

It just means that I'd probably be a bit better at the setup than the others, however, that doesn't really change how I'd play, (and therefore get read by the others).

really? why not?

Idk. Like i cant really wrap my gead around it and it doesnt really make sense to me

How so? I could see Enigma flipping scum, and I could also see Ruru flipping scum, (mainly based on her most recent posting).

I'm basically sheeping players who are better than me on it not being a towny thing to say

Ehhhhhhhh I really don't like this post. I'm generally fine with sheeping, however, like, if you're just gonna sheep all game, I don't really like it.
This doesn't really affect my ruru read, however, it's something I'd like to point out.

Idk what do you think about tw's repout? I think thats kinda townie fir him tbh

I'm not reaully sure what to make of TW replacing out. On one hand, I'd say that it is somewhat townie, however, on the other, I kinda feel like TW actually got fed up with Ruru and wanted to replace, making it NAI for me.

and I really think we should just massclaim today

Why's that?

hey everyone!
Thanks for the welcome, skitter.
I am absolutely not reading 100+ pages.

Things to do:
-figure out why tw voted ruru
-do some ISOs
-prioritize sorting alonzo as he's the only person I know in the 7 other people

Hello person.

Also, can I get a summary of what's happened so far? That would be great.

Day 1:
- Creature got revealed as IC.
- We discussed setup spec and other things.
- Like half the player list replaced out
- Deadline got extended really far.
- I revealed that I was Vex
- Eventually NM replaced in, and we agreed to lynch him.
- NM flipped Mafia Goon

Day 2:
- A50 died, he flipped VT.
- We continued discussing things.
- I replaced Vex, only to have all games under one account.
- We eventually agreed to lynch Gamma, who flipped VT.

That's really about it.

[Korina]

There's my catch-up thoughts.
My VPN either got blocked by my school or my vpn broke, so that post got delayed a bit longer.

P-Edit: @Alonzo, you were with me in NOIR, does my play seem similar to NOIR?

[Korina]

I'm just gonna keep the hardclaim cycle going.
I'm a VT.

@whoever hasn't claimed yet, please do so

[Korina]

Why me?

[Korina]

@Irrel, I've played one major scum-game, and then NOIR.
I don't play on any other sites.
Where would I get the confidence/experience to play so hard against my own meta, much less be

that

confident in my own ability to play as scum, to the point where I would be considering to out myself and switch to my main?

I've also been busy with school stuff since the quarter is wrapping up, and I've been trying to figure out where I'm screwing up my reads, and trying to figure out exactly what I'm thinking of Enigma and Preformer.

P-Edit: Ruru and Skitter haven't claimed @Alonzo.

[Korina]

I'm bodyguard lol

And yet you weren't on Creature last night...?
Also, mind telling us who you were on then?

[Korina]

VOTE: ruru

Alright.

P-Edit: Creature was the IC. Obviously BG would be on the confirmed townie.

[Korina]

Creature has been revealed as the Innocent Child.

@Preformer

[Korina]

Also looking at it,

@mod, you said Creature was a VT in the dead list, not an IC.

[Korina]

Looking at it this way: Ruru certainly gets the NK if she's being truthful, because there's only one person she'd reasonably protect at this point, since she didn't do it in the first place: Alonzo.

However, I don't like the entire "I don't value Creature's life over my own" when it's even better for town to have a dead bg and an IC going into D3 versus the other way around.
Dead bg means IC gets NK'd that night for certain. Nothing can stop that NK.

[Korina]

Ruru, please tell me you are not braindead and that you understand that having a confirmed townie alive is way more important than having a BG alive.
Obviously, when you claim, you get killed, therefore, your maximum potential is to delay a night-kill on another PR.

[Korina]

I'll save you time on #2: I said that it was unlikely for scum to take all three, however, I thought they'd have certainly taken two: Daytalk and {JOAT, Rolecop}.

Here's the quotes that were relevant:

Actually thanks vex that’s quite useful. I was too lazy to look myself, partly because of what you mentioned about mods not flipping on post 0.

What’s interesting is that it’s 15 games, so from glance of numbers the average no of mods per game is quite low.

roughly about 1.2 mods/game
which is quite interesting in general
if im scum id wanna take around two mods not one

i think scum were very likely to take:
daytalk, joat and rolecop if they took three
i don't think they did, and im 100% sure they did take daytalk meaning for me its between {joat/rc} for scum second mod

[Korina]

Quick thought before I get off for the night:
The only scum-modifier that was reasonably taken if it is one modifier is JOAT.

Recruit Traitor is a waste regardless. Free PR and extra shot for a possible GC, plus added guilty for GC, so that means another modifier needs to be taken with it, unless scum feel like gambling on that.
Daytalk is weak as a modifier on its own, (and in addition to that, if I am scum, and convinced my scumbuddy to take daytalk, I wouldn't have outed myself.)
Bulletproof is really only good at trying to prevent a possible vig, and even then, it's not really worth trying to take a modifier to prevent a 1/6 chance.
Rolecop is only good if scum take two or three mods, because that's 4/9 or 5/9 non-VT feedback chance. 1/3 isn't really worth giving an extra PR for.
JOAT is the only modifier that could reasonably be left if scum took only one modifier since they're getting two separate one-shot abilities for it.

This could also all be circumvented if Ruru/Alonzo is trying to gambit-PR claim.

About that as well, there is exactly a 0% chance of both of them flipping VT. I thought about fake-claiming PR to try to draw the NK onto myself, but then I realized I can't.
- I couldn't claim IC since:
1) Creature was the IC
2) I would've been revealed at the start of D1.
- I couldn't claim BG since I'd have been killed last night, and Creature would've been alive still.
- I couldn't claim Vig since that brings up questions about why I never shot anyone, which if I try to lie on that one, that ends up with a ML.
- I couldn't claim RBer since Alonzo already claimed it.
- I could claim GC, however, that'd mean that whoever I hypo-inno'd would be "town" until I flipped and it was revealed that I was a VT, which, hurts town more than it helps.

UNVOTE: ruru

I'm gonna ISO dive people later.
Until then, have a good day/night you guys.

[Korina]

Isn't there 1 more person who didn't claim?

I seriously don't like that answer from ruru, looks very suspicious.
Bg role is created to protect others, especially prs.
I think this is literally the first time I've ever seen this kind of reasoning and really , really don't like it. I mean, who says they don't want to protect Alonzo at this point with the mass claiming going around? That's the only answer they should give at this point .
At the same time - if she fake claimed, that is next to suicide for scum to do. On top of that, this is basically suicide from what ruru is saying if she is scum...so I'm inclined to think she can't be scum saying such things.

Also why did Creature of all people, claim his IC role on d1 in post 5?? What the!?
This G A I M is messed up.

Anyway, trying to think if it makes sense with 12 - goon, traitor, another scum role, IC, town rb, town bg. Considering the setup features, it actually sounds plausible .

He was forced to claim...
He wasn't the "I can reveal whenever I want" IC, he was the "You are revealed at the start of D1" IC
I also have thoughts about this post that I wanna bring up, but I need to sleep. I'll do it when I get up.

[Korina]

Also, everyone claimed:

Alonzo - RBer
Ruru - BG
Preformer, Skitter, Korina, Buj, Irrel, Enigma - VT

[Korina]

Like if Alonzo doesn't get killed he is 100% scum here.

Do you mean Ruru?

[Korina]

IMO, daytalk is incredibly useful. Sure, it gives town an extra PR, however, it allows scum to coordinate so much better that it basically makes up for the extra PR they would've given Town, assuming both scum could utilize it effectively.
Also BP/Daytalk were the least picked. A total of 0 games had that as a chosen modifier.

[Korina]

No, recruit traitor is bad.
Really bad.

That means there's a 50% chance of there being a GC, and then the GC has a 25% of getting a guilty.
It's not worth taking the extra chance of there being Goon Cop, and on top of that, the extra guilty unless you take something else with it.

[Korina]

@Skitter Personally, I'd rather take JOAT over Daytalk. If I knew my partner was really good at scum-play, I'd consider taking it, however, I'd rather save it for a scum PR and to help prevent a possible guilty from a GC. Daytalk is just a free PR for town.

@skitter you've already said this game the only modifier you'd take is daytalk..?

What will this town do re:Alonzo's slot if ruru dies tonight and then Alonzo lives to mylo? Just trying to think how believable I think his claim is, especially since only two players claimed after him (few enough that even if both ruru and skitter were PRs it would sound reasonable for him to also be a PR)
Oh wait I see the hole in this logic already... Scum!Alonzo knew only one of them would claim PR but not what they'd claim, and definitely not that one of them would claim BG, so claiming roleblocker was pretty risky there if scum

Still, though, the question remains: what will happen if Alonzo is alive in mylo? I don't want to let him coast there off this claim.

pedit: lol skitter I guess that sort of answers my original question

I'd disagree. RBer is actually the safest claim that Scum!Alonzo could make without bringing up questions, gambitting or shooting himself down the line. I didn't get into details on why I would've thought about fake-claiming RBer in #2715, but, my logic would've been that only scum or another PR would know that I lied about it.
It's actually a pretty safe claim.
The only way it could be disproven is if:
a) someone is actually RBer
b) Alonzo claimed to have RB a GC/his RB is proven to be false

[Korina]

I'm trying to make sense of my thoughts

[Korina]

Here's a thought - we leash alonzo onto who he & us agree to be blocked. That should help us narrow things down.

If town and failed = he dies since scum kills him
If town and succeeded = that's great, likely confirmed scum target
If he succeeded but the block target flipped green after lynch = lynch alonzo next day with prejudice since that means he lied

Several problems I have with this post:
1a) If Ruru is BG, Ruru will flip before Alonzo flips, so his RB failing wouldn't mean anything in the first place.
1b) If Ruru isn't BG, but rather is groupscum, Alonzo isn't dying. It'd be suicidal for Ruru to fake-claim BG, then to kill Alonzo in the first place.
2a) Regardless of if the kill goes through while Alonzo RBs them doesn't confirm anything. Scum are not forced to kill, they could choose not to kill.
2b) Along that same vein, what happens if scum decide to not kill anyone the night Alonzo RBs someone who is pretty well TR'd, to try to frame said player and make us think they're scum?
2c) If the player is the traitor, your theory falls apart instantly. Traitor doesn't have the NK, so they can't do anything, ergo RBing them would do nothing.
3) If scum don't kill, and we choose to lynch whoever Alonzo RB'd, and they flip green, that doesn't mean we should instantly lynch Alonzo. Hell, if we were to go through with this and Alonzo flipped green, I'd bet you're flipping red.

In my case on enigma , he included irrel, me, buj, and alonzo in his ISO of people to lynch/sr but didn't include nm. Alonzo NOT looking at enigma this d3 phase with no reasoning afaik, is alarming by itself.

I have no idea what you're getting at here.

On a related note, I have a bad feeling about buj , as in I don't think he's scum here.
Him voting enigma after I posted my case on enigma, actually makes sense from a town perspective because enigma pushed for buj AND my death, and I absolutely am town here. So buj's vote on enig makes sense as a town process.

I'm not really getting the same vibes from Buj's ISO that I'd expect from Town!Buj. Part of me keeps going back to Open 713 because his play is sorta reminding me of that game atm.

performer's either town or groupscum without a traitor imo because i feel like he doesn't really understand the whole 'recruit traitor' notion

Going by what the setup says, there's IS a traitor. And I was saying alonzo could be traitor and enigma could be the groupscum with nm, who flipped red. Anyway, that's just my hypothetical .

How would that work then? Alonzo would know that Enigma is groupscum, I don't really think trying to PR claim would constitute a traitor-signal.

At the same time I don't see what you mean by "recruit traitor." I'm under the impression that if scum chose that, they can recruit the traitor?
Well in that case couldn't alonzo still have possibly fake claimed with enigma no matter who is who?

Scum is allowed to recruit the traitor. That takes up one of their three modifiers, however, it's a waste of a modifier IMO.

But like
If he's traitor
Then fhpov it's just

true

that enigma getting roleblocked means enigma is conftown

I thought this post was scummy for a few minutes, then I re-read it and it made sense.
So do you think Preformer is traitor then Irrel?

To not be rude and ignore the player I'm scumreading...
@performer I don't think we need to leash Alonzo but he should definitely tell us his targets in advance
But for that to work ruru 100% needs to BG him

pedit: Performer are you scumreading Alonzo for changing his reads? If there's more to it than that please explain

While I don't think scum recruited traitor, what do you do if that's the case? They just know to have the other preform the kill.
Ruru also needs to be on Alonzo, otherwise if Alonzo dies, Ruru just gets policy'd at that point because clearly Ruru is not BG. And if Ruru does flip BG, then that's a wonderful throw.

If Ruru dies tonight, then we re-consider that.
If Ruru doesn't die tonight, we don't do that until Ruru is dead and Alonzo is at risk.

Also, why would Preformer SR Alonzo for changing his reads?

@irrelephant his changing in reads and being noncommital to enigma, as well as claiming he blocked him on n2 , make sense to me if alonzo is fake claiming as scum. When I played with him in 2 games as town, he wasn't as noncommital.

So are you saying that it's {Alonzo, Enigma}?
I'm not sure what you're getting at here.

I need to think over the ruru having to bg alonzo idea:
if town bg on scum rb, bg dies
if scum bg on town rb, rb dies
if both town, rb dies
if both scum, well damn.

actually you're right there. Never mind me idea, I agree with ruru on alonzo and alonzo designating his target.

If Ruru is town, and Alonzo is scum, I'm not entirely sold on Ruru being killed. Alonzo could try to force MLs from that.
If Ruru is scum, and Alonzo is town, Ruru cannot kill Alonzo, otherwise Ruru will get hanged for lying about being BG, because at this point, Alonzo is who Ruru needs to be on.
If both of them are town, the BG dies before Alonzo does.
If both of them are scum, that just means that this game is fucked.

I still think because Alonzo can't be killed tonight, he shouldn't say who he RB'd in case they recruited traitor.

Waiiiit a minute. alonzo claims to have blocked enigma n2, enigma on d3 said irrel/alonzo/buj were his sr. This was BEFORE alonzo's claim.

So , I am thinking that if enigma flips red & alonzo flips green, this means there is 3 group scum and no traitor. Because an nk still occurred on n2 despite alonzo blocking enigma.
alonzo claimed rb on enigma n2>kill still happened>if enigma flips red, 1 other scum left because of kill on n2

There's two possible reds Enigma could flip: Groupscum and Traitor.
You are assuming here that Enigma flips groupscum, and that Alonzo flips green. If that is the case, yes, they recruited traitor. There literally is no way around it unless we have a vig who didn't claim, (or Enigma flipped JOAT, which means the RB would've been potentially useless.)
However, what if Enigma flips traitor? Regardless of Alonzo flipping green, it only confirms that the modifier scum took wasn't recruit traitor. That's all it does.

Ok .

UNVOTE:

So alonzo did rb on enigma on n2....but there were still ways it could've failed, seeing as Creat died.
What if scum had JOAT - so they could 1-shot strongman, and used that on n2 against creat? The post 2 details in the game, say it can't be blocked.
Despite that, I am starting to see that bujaber is probably the better vote now.

How would Scum!Enigma know to use strongman on n2, even before Alonzo claimed RBer, much less be

that

certain they'd get RB'd?

Still not liking the magical addition of me into his sr list with irrelephant and me as bujaber's sr. No explanation at all after scrolling through his more recent posts. Intent to vote bujaber, but I want to hear from alonz & enigma first.

What are your thoughts on this rn?

I don't think alonzo should telegraph his target today because it's a disaster if bujaber is town and scum recruited traitor, not to mention it gives scum more information on who to shoot

alonzo is living tomorrow to claim tonight's target unless he roleblocks me so there's no benefit in telegraphing

(and if I'm scum somehow thinking solo pushing for massclaim a day early and fakeclaiming bg is a good idea, then I'm shooting someone other than alonzo tonight 100% of the time anyway)

This entire post I agree with. This post really sums up my entire thought process:
- If scum recruited traitor, they just use the other person to kill.
- Alonzo certainly is living tonight. Period.
- Ruru certainly is on Alonzo tonight, meaning that Ruru flips before Alonzo.
- If Ruru is fake-claiming BG, she's shooting someone else that isn't Alonzo, because shooting Alonzo while fake-claiming BG is suicide.
- Alonzo is not RBing Ruru.

Still not liking the magical addition of me into his sr list with irrelephant and me as bujaber's sr. No explanation at all after scrolling through his more recent posts. Intent to vote bujaber, but I want to hear from alonz & enigma first.

What are you talking about?

You guys didn't magically appear in my scumreads.

Tw was my hypo inno so I had to pretend I townread him. When we massclaimed this was not needed at all. Same with alonzo. If he hadn't claimed PR I'd be pushing for his lynch right now, but he did and we can easily confirm his alignment by him getting killed tonight if ruru is lying or tomorrow if ruru isn't lying.

Why would we lynch a PR? I said that trying to fake-claim to draw away the NK was a bad idea in general, and explained why it was bad. I don't think scum would be

that

bold to try to fake-claim in the first place.

[Korina]

Basically:
Alonzo isn't dying tonight. If he does, we lynch Ruru.
Alonzo shouldn't say who he's rbing
I think Preformer is confused town.
I think Buj is just scum.

[Korina]

I'm pretty sure that it's {Buj, Enigma}.

[Korina]

Basically:
Alonzo isn't dying tonight. If he does, we lynch Ruru.
Alonzo shouldn't say who he's rbing
I think Preformer is confused town.
I think Buj is just scum.

I'm pretty sure that it's {Buj, Enigma}.

Can you expand on this?

What specifically?

[Korina]

Apart from the fact that he's been on hiatus and just now came back, and his wiki was updated before hiatus...
I'm not really sure on it.

Part of me is saying that his hiatus would change his meta.
The other part is saying that he's still able to fake that since its not hard.

If one flips green out of {Buj, Enigma}, I'd be willing to put Performer back into lynchable pile based on his wiki-page.

[Korina]

How do you feel about it Irrel?

[Korina]

@korina expand on your sr of buj and enigma.

Buj isn't playing how I'd expect Town!Buj to be playing atm. His posting currently feels very similar to Open 713: Jungle Republic, where he was scum. I'm also looking back at Micro 785: Forest Fire Blitz where he was TPR.
I don't really think that he's Town in general.

Enigma, I haven't really seen too much that I agree with on being townie. Some of Enigma's recent posting were actually alright, however, I just have a bad feeling about leaving Enigma alive.

If one of them flips green, I'm certainly gonna re-evaluate everyone.

Why would we lynch a PR? I said that trying to fake-claim to draw away the NK was a bad idea in general, and explained why it was bad. I don't think scum would be that bold to try to fake-claim in the first place.

i kinda disagree in general; two stack-the-decks ago scum fake-claimed rb day1 iirc and coasted to endgame on that

(at least partially because i didn't believe scum would fake-claim; like it's a dumb hting to do imo but people do it anyways apparrently. also because town decided to lol-fake-claim goon cop in mylo and got cc'd by the real goon cop and got mislynched for it; fun times)

i think it's a little bit less likely here because we instituted an order and had the less-townread people claim first

I feel like scum is within the VT claims, not the TPR claims.
I also certainly feel that Ruru/Alonzo get resolved by the night actions.
If not, it's dumb for Scum!Ruru to try to claim BG when that limits her killpool.

@korina I just find it interesting you're reading Performer as "confused town" when it seems that is his scum meta. It definitely might have changed but I'm surprised it didn't give you pause

I was thinking about it for a moment, however, I wanted to give Performer the benefit of the doubt on his meta changing in the 2-year hiatus.
If one of {Buj, Enigma} flips green, yea, I'd certainly take his meta into account.
If his meta was updated recently and that was true, I'd say that he's scum, but I wanna give him the benefit of the doubt for rn.

[Korina]

Where are you getting with that?

[Korina]

Isn't enigma overdue for prodding?

Also, is anyone here an alt or has alts? Reason for asking is meta comparisons.

Enigma is due for a prod, only by an hour though.
My only alt is Vex, who I was playing as. The reason why I was playing as Vex I already explained.

[Korina]

Why Skitter?

[Korina]

Possible scum teams:

If enigma flips town:
- ruru + alonzo

What

Buj, what the fuck are you on rn?

[Korina]

Buj, you are saying that literally both of them are lying, and for whatever reason during a massclaim one of the actual TPRs said VT.
Town is guaranteed to have one other TPR at the start of the game, meaning one of {Alonzo, Ruru} is being truthful.
We're pretty sure scum took one modifier, meaning that there'd be 3 TPRs meaning {Alonzo, Ruru} TPRs makes sense.

[Korina]

#2715

I literally explained that I was thinking about fakeclaiming TPR to draw away the NK.
I couldn't because fakeclaiming fmpov hurts town more than saving a TPR would help.

[Korina]

@Preformer Tbf, Skitter and I were TRing Enigma earlier on.
I'll post more substancial things later.

[Korina]

@Preformer Tbf, Skitter and I were TRing Enigma earlier on.
I'll post more substancial things later.

Do you still TR him? If so could you give a case on him now giving all we know and the role claims?

"...were TRing Enigma earlier on."

I'm not. Enigma has sorta slipped under the radar for me, and just hasn't seemed to be that interested in solving atm.
Some of their posts have been alright, but, combined with (now) constant stalling, I don't really see Enigma flipping town.

[Korina]

Intent to hammer as well if Enigma isn’t around.
Sorry for lack of activity, quarter for school has been wrapping up.
I have only tomorrow before end of quarter.

[Korina]

I've been busy here.
I've been looking at colleges. If you look at my entire site-wide activity, I haven't been active.

[Korina]

My posts today have been me trying to catch up on things that I've missed the past two days.
And also, I have a completed newbie game where I literally used IIOA the entire late game, and I flipped VT.

Nice try though.
I don't think scum no-killed as gambit, I legit think they got blocked.

[Korina]

Here's the newbie game as well:
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=77380

I dedicated more activity to it towards the end because I was geniuinely interested in solving.
This game is starting to lose my interest only because it seems like we got the game solved, we just aren't acting upon it, plus other reasons I can't get into.

[Korina]

What about me?
I’m here, sorry for being absent the past few days.
My doctor’s office fucked up and didn’t send out the prescription to fill my medicine, so I’ve been unavle to focus on anythig, (this game included).
I’ll post a bit later tonight/tomorrow

[Korina]

I mean, I've never gotten to that point, however, I'd say hypothetically, I'd play more aggressively and sorta not really care as much about what'd happen at that point.
I'm unsure.

I feel like final-scum!me would play a bit more care-free at that point only because I don't have another partner I'm worried about outing.

[Korina]

Why do you ask?

[Korina]

Alonzo - who did you target?

Who did you target?

VOTE: irrel

so i was looking through anti's (admittedly short) iso and i noticed that he was kinda protecting sky (now performer)

more interestingly he was chainsawing sky by attacking a50 when a50 called her a traitor

he also scumread a50 for finding mwnn (not_mafia) scummy for being on vla

so overall i think this is slightly +scum for performer

i haven't gone through bujaber's iso yet

bujaber kept defending sky's slot for being too scummy to be scum

I thought it was dubious in terms of his own alignment but I'm not sure how much that says about the slot: it might mean he was traitor-reading it (which doesn't necessarily mean it's actually traitor), it might mean he was trying to leave a weird associative (and I know bujaber likes to mess with associatives as scum), it might mean he had tmi on a townslot, etc.

both bujaber + antihero defending sky on that basis is a little strange tho

ruru if you were scum and took only one mod, what would you take?

sky's behavior doesn't make much sense as recruited traitor tho?

do we think mwnn+antihero take daytalk though?

mwnn was busy irl, antihero was either busy or stopped wanting to play the game because his partner was afk (doesn't seem too unlikely, I've experienced that feeling)

I feel like that's not a pair that values daytalk above giving town a pr

does it even matter what order we lynch in

I guess it does, if scum want to nk then we get an inno on someone in the scumpool

so I guess theoretically we should lynch whoever is least useful to gamesolving? which is probably performer since he hasn't read the game

but then there's also that irrel is the player I'm most worried about convincing everyone he's town after I'm shot, and I'm also scumreading him most

I'm putting off everything else I should be doing to post thoughts. Expect them soon.
I apologize for being inactive again. I was visiting colleges + my doctor's office fucked up and didn't send out the prescription for my medicine. I would've called V/LA, however, I didn't expect it to be so long that V/LA would be needed.

[Korina]

Ah shit, I didn't mean for those to get quoted.
Oh well.

[Korina]

Spoiler:

Alonzo - who did you target?

Who did you target?

I'm not really sure why you made this post.
And, to answer the later posts about it being obvious that Alonzo did RB Preformer, yea, this post does make it obvious.

VOTE: irrel

Why Irrel?

so i was looking through anti's (admittedly short) iso and i noticed that he was kinda protecting sky (now performer)

more interestingly he was chainsawing sky by attacking a50 when a50 called her a traitor

he also scumread a50 for finding mwnn (not_mafia) scummy for being on vla

so overall i think this is slightly +scum for performer

i haven't gone through bujaber's iso yet

Tbf, I also agreed that it was a bit scummy that A50 was trying to SR MWNN for being on V/LA. I consider it null, but, I'd like to see why you think that's important.

bujaber kept defending sky's slot for being too scummy to be scum

I thought it was dubious in terms of his own alignment but I'm not sure how much that says about the slot: it might mean he was traitor-reading it (which doesn't necessarily mean it's actually traitor), it might mean he was trying to leave a weird associative (and I know bujaber likes to mess with associatives as scum), it might mean he had tmi on a townslot, etc.

And so what do you make of this?

both bujaber + antihero defending sky on that basis is a little strange tho

ruru if you were scum and took only one mod, what would you take?

Ik I'm not ruru, but, daytalk. That's the lesser of the two evils for me. I'd rather be able to coordinate better than to have an extra player I'm worried about accidentally outting, plus lose out on a chance to fake attempting to SR a player, (who I thought was the traitor).

sky's behavior doesn't make much sense as recruited traitor tho?

Wdym? And what do you think it means Sky was?

do we think mwnn+antihero take daytalk though?

mwnn was busy irl, antihero was either busy or stopped wanting to play the game because his partner was afk (doesn't seem too unlikely, I've experienced that feeling)

I feel like that's not a pair that values daytalk above giving town a pr

If MWNN was active

before

the game started, I think daytalk is viable, (assuming the IRL stuff was emergency).
However, I don't really feel like that's the case, and I feel like they took recruited traitor. We know that it can't be {Recruited Traitor + Anything Else} only because we have 3 TPRs.

does it even matter what order we lynch in

I guess it does, if scum want to nk then we get an inno on someone in the scumpool

so I guess theoretically we should lynch whoever is least useful to gamesolving? which is probably performer since he hasn't read the game

but then there's also that irrel is the player I'm most worried about convincing everyone he's town after I'm shot, and I'm also scumreading him most

I don't think it matters who we lynch first.
I also think that between all the scummy players, that smart-scum would want to leave them alive to draw suspicion off of them. I think {You, Alonzo, Me, Skitter} would certainly get NK'd before {Preformer, Irrel} do, only because our flips don't really confirm a whole lot.

so, the thing I thought was a traitor-or-town-slip could also come from recruited traitor

after rereading it I'm actually not sure I believe groupscum wouldn't write it anymore (mostly because in his 2nd post he's talking about a pair, he never really heavily implied 3 people were involved in the decision)

I still think the siteflake is a serious towntell though

Is this from MWNN? If so, I don't really see it as AI.

also performer's felt pretty present and bold for a scum replace-in and his scum meta is lurky

Once again, he hasn't played in 2 years. Does that change anything?
I feel like there's the possibility that he purposefully did try that only to throw us off of his meta.

Oh two goons have flipped I'm dumb ignore me

Alright, added you to my foes list. :^)

also bujaber trying to get enigma lynched is +town to enigma imo

I agree with this, as he was also roleblocked on n2. So, rb on n2 & bujaber's ending vote on enigma, make it likelier enig is town.

@alonzo I can't target anyone , I'm a vt.

does it even matter what order we lynch in

I guess it does, if scum want to nk then we get an inno on someone in the scumpool

so I guess theoretically we should lynch whoever is least useful to gamesolving? which is probably performer since he hasn't read the game

but then there's also that irrel is the player I'm most worried about convincing everyone he's town after I'm shot, and I'm also scumreading him most

Have you been paying attention? I actually have caught up with a lot of the game & read the ISOs. I'm starting to doubt you're town here, due to no nk from n3 & that you suggested this extremely horrible reasoning for lynching.

So you think Scum!Ruru decided to risk faking TPR for what reason? I'm not seeing why Scum!Ruru would want to when she was already getting TR'd.

Just to make sure it's said, ruru can mechanically be the traitor here, and we shouldn't forget that.

We're just waiting on Alonzo at this point I'm guessing?

How can Ruru be traitor here? I'm not really seeing it. Why would Ruru not nightkill anyone last night? Ruru is the last person who would've gotten RB'd, and Ruru could've easily gotten rid of someone else, (namely me or Skitter), so Ruru deciding to not NK for gambit doesn't really make sense to me.

VOTE: Performer
I've detailed why I think tw/sky make sense as the traitor to BuJ's groupscum, & Performer is literally playing to his scum meta imo

I don't know what the first part is about, but the latter is a terribly huge reach of an accusation.
Waiting on Korina to catch up & provide thoughts . We got plenty of time here so no need to rush things.

Fos: ruru for the aforementioned.
If ruru is somehow town though, she needs to keep bg on alonzo the rest of the game. This is a good situation of 1v6 because we should have a good chance at winning here.
If there are continued no kills, no lynch could be considered the following day in the future. Continued nights without kills, also increases suspicion of ruru.

1) BG!Ruru has to be on Alonzo, otherwise its throwing. Scum!Ruru can't kill Alonzo, because its throwing.
2) Once again, why would Scum!Ruru refuse to kill here when there are targets that don't reveal a whole lot, and Ruru isn't going to get RB'd in the first place, because that'd mean if Ruru is Town, and Alonzo is Town, he just threw the game?

FMPOV we should nolynch this out, I could then Pick either the same target as last night or a different player and see the results then.

Im not 100% sure Scum didn't no kill last night to force a mislynch today. I'd like to run it twice.

Alright, apart from that, who do you think is the scummiest rn?

Now these were the two slots that got to decide on the mods, keeping in mind that they do/did not know who the traitor is/was pregame.

Why would they give scum PR mods to the traitor rather than themselves? BP/JOAT/RC is useless for traitor as a single mod

.

we technically could have lynched a recruited traitor; they flip as mafia goon

i think the bolded is lowkey a townslip because he doesn't seem to know how giving out mods work (ie who gets the mods amongst goons is randomized; scum don't get to choose)

Ngl, on inital read, I thought this was a scumslip, but then I realized that Ruru has played these setups before and would know that.

Skitter’s post about irrel yesterday – exactly, irrel's behavior at eod 3 was suspicious as I called attention to it as well yesterday .

night action summary, more for future reference than anything else:
Ruru no bg on n1 & n2, bg on alonzo n3, bg alonzo n4
Alonzo rb enigma n2, rb me n3, rb ? n4

The problem with this is if alonzo switches to another person &

suddenly there’s an nk, then people will think I did the kill. Essentially scum is framing me

. This along with irrel’s hilarious accusation, actually makes me more convinced on irrel & outer chance of Korina, with fos of ruru.

Another problem is if he switches onto someone else and there is still no kill, that’s alarming too…because what if scum just keep no killing to frame people?

The good thing is even if we go 7-5-3 from d4 to d6, with poe we should be able to ultimately win this. Of course, this heavily relies on if ruru & alonzo have been telling the truth.

I don’t see a no lynch helping us more than a lynch does, for this phase.

Here's the thing: If I'm scum, I'd have tried to kill Alonzo, but most likely flipped Ruru instead. I wouldn't have holstered. I don't think I would've gotten RB'd, and if someone gets confirmed, guess what? They just die next.

Why do you think scum would frame you in this case as well?

dangit I shouldn't have posted 3028

Wdym?

It's obvious that Alonzo targeted me regardless of if he gave a straight answer. Anybody could tell from his reply, though I'm still town .
If I'm somehow the lynch today, lynch irrel tomorrow.

Still , waiting on Korina before voting.

Yea, that seems to be the general consensus.

Lynch irrelephant

Why?

I mean if scum is in {you, enigma, performer} then lynching those three wins the game even if alonzo literally goes afk

skitter is 99% town

korina is 95% town

if alonzo is scum he gamethrew

if I'm scum I gamethrew

I get how Alonzo going afk is a throw, however, how do you throw in this situation? I'm not seeing it.

yes hello
@game

I'm not scum so if you're just settled on me at least do some work to sort for tomorrow's lynch. I would've shot last night, btw. There were good odds I'd be targeted based on what people told Alonzo to do, so what would be the point in holstering?

Anyway, performer slot case incoming

See, I agree on this post. Nobody really has any reason to try to holster, unless they really wanted to try to gambit it out, but even then, that's a huge risk on them.

yes hello
@game

I'm not scum so if you're just settled on me at least do some work to sort for tomorrow's lynch. I would've shot last night, btw. There were good odds I'd be targeted based on what people told Alonzo to do, so what would be the point in holstering?

Anyway, performer slot case incoming

Honestly if we're both town....then......someone like Korina or one of the prs, have fake claimed.
Thing is, I would've shot last night too if I was scum.

Starting to wonder if really should no lynch in this case, though I suggested no lynch is better in a future phase.

I explained that I was considering fakeclaiming TPR to draw away a NK from the actual TPRs. Why would Scum!Me try to pull the same logic and gambit it out when I'd be putting my team down a member, and hurting them horribly if it backfired? Town!Me would certainly gambit that, only because my death doesn't really matter a whole lot—I drew away the NK which was my goal. ReasonableTown!Me wouldn't, only because I know that hurts Town more than it helps.

Maybe tw played with buj in the past so he called him a friend. But yeah, point is obviously

we can go speculate about what anti said about sky, or what tw did and the meaning of his posts,

but I wouldn't know why the two of them played like that. Clearly those 2 have different playstyles.

I mean I'm not asking *you* to *speculate* about your preds, I'm asking everyone else to evaluate your slot.

I'll get to it in a bit.

The only thing we know now that we didn't know before the game started is that creature is IC and therefore scum didn't pick 0 powers, they picked at least 1.

False assumption (Coming from BuJ I'd say it might be a Town slip, but don't quote me on that just yet.)

Town start with 2 PRs, then gain an additional one for every modification the scum pick.

This means we have at least one other TPR in addition to Creature if the scum team is 2 Goons + a Traitor with no daychat. If they picked one modification then we have 2 more TPRs in addition to Creature. If they picked two modification we have 4 TPRs in total, and if they picked 3 modofication (maxed out) we would have FIVE TPRs.

so i was looking at the tail-end of a50's iso and found this post

it looks like bujaber thinks here that town started at 0 powers and they get one pr for each mod scum take. and he says we know that scum picked at least one since creature is an ic

he's wrong at town starting at 0 powers but i think this points to him knowing that scum picked at least one (massclaim seems to indicate exactly one) which leads me to believe both pr claims are real (i mean i thought that already but this is just another piece of information pointing to that)

I agree, but a part of me keeps thinking what if he did it to try to throw us off.
Does that change anything for you if that's the case?

If you can prove mechanically that town always wins this with me dead, and if you'll hear me out on Performer before I go, I'm still fine with that.

I have a long draft regarding Performer but I have to go afk so I'll post it & more tomorrow

you feel a little bit survivalistic to me :/

How so?

enigma pretty much has to be town for the same reasons I am regarding night actions + BuJ wanted him dead for most of the game.

also I also feel like this is another low-nuance "scum lynch town, town lynch scum" type read (I do think enigma is probably town, but your level of certainty is doubly strange to me considering you scumread enigma on night actions + posting alone and I don't, and I still haven't reached it after bujaber's flip)

I even mentioned a couple times that bujaber likes to mess with associatives as scum

his d1 case on enigma was "policy lynch for pagetopping" which is never ever going to get someone actually lynched so at least some of it could be distancing without necessarily having intent to bus either

I don't really get that vibe from Buj that he would try something like that as scum. I think it's more of him trying to mess with associations rather than distancing.

I use it extremely literally in my own case: yes, in theory, I could hard bus bujaber and fake claim bg because wifom and then make the game nightless (sacrificing the most overpowered ability in the game) and then drive lynches on town like 4 times in a row or something but I only do that if I'm extremely confident in my ability to towntell which is never the case when I roll scum and if I'm not then it's actually just gamethrowing.

alonzo and I were both generally townread already so there's no point for either of us in poeing the game further; fakeclaiming only really makes sense for either of us if we planned to stop the bujaber lynch so as to make rb/tracker innos remain ambiguous (and I already knew there's an rb when I claimed bg)

alonzo had a 1/3 chance to instantly lose to a cc considering I would never let bujaber live to endgame, and he wasn't lined up to be lynched, so that's objectively townreadable as well

alonzo would also be expecting an investigative role above him in the claim order; if someone had useful n1/n2 gc/tracker results (for example, tracking alonzo doing nothing) the game could also just be mechanically solved by his claim

so like basically it's not impossible but it's just exceedingly unlikely

I do actually really agree with this post. It does make logical sense to me, and really, like, the only person I feel like would try this is Skitter. Everyone else I don't think would even bother attempting that.

I would've shot last night, btw. There were good odds I'd be targeted based on what people told Alonzo to do, so what would be the point in holstering?

?

My point here was just that scum!me would mean dead!ruru
I haven’t thought through all the steps of scum strategy here but I’m pretty sure since I didn’t get blocked the no kill is a slight town point for me
Maybe scum had to no kill to have a chance here idk

@ruru imagine tw’d rep out was NAI. Who would you want to lynch/how would you read the slot?

Thinking about it, yea, there's literally no reason for you to holster if you're scum. If you're RB'd, kill won't go through, but if you don't kill and you weren't RB'd, you wasted the night, and I don't really think you're that confident in your scum-play to do so.

I'd still wanna lynch you/preformer. I treated the TW rep out as NAI.

I want to know if you agree that town!me means scum!Performer

also about this, I think it's scummy that you keep insisting on performer being scum but you haven't really bothered much to argue your idea that enigma is locktown after I criticised it.

if you're dying town the former isn't changing anything lynchpool-wise (except possibly getting you off the hook today) but the latter should, from your perspective, be a big deal because it increases the probability of you winning against {korina, me}.

I'm not following here. Care to explain?

Whats happening??

Who's the Lynch?

I think Irrel/Preformer.

I don’t care if you lynch me first; I agree that might be the right strategy fypov and I’ve already WIFOM’d up my slot by saying as such

then why are you still ateing and making it annoying to lynch you? like I don't believe that you're actually ignorant of what you're doing here.

The AtEing is working a bit on me though :/
Like Performer feels much more survivalistic than elephant atm, IMO.

Performer's lack of any scum hunting today + the rb last night + general actions before that + duck/sky = my preferred lynch today[/quote]

I'm fine with a Performer lynch.

Not voting yet because it will be L-1 and still waiting on Korina. But I kinda feel more scum equity on performer than elephant rn.

If it happens to be a mislynch and you aren't around tomorrow ruru, I will (try to) sort elephant out and hopefully not let him get away if he is scum

I mean, I feel like the most optimal thing to do here is lynch Performer/Irrel today. If he flips green, Alonzo RBs {You, Irrel/Performer}.
If no kill, we hang whoever Alonzo RB'd, and if its green, we RB the other.
If no kills again, we hang the other, and if that's still green, I'm 100% certain its Skitter, because Skitter is reasonably the only one who would be

that

confident in their scumplay IMO.

If there is a kill, we know that whoever Alonzo RB'd is Town, and we lynch the other. If green, RB someone else, go from there.

also the fact that you and skitter are townreading his policy-worthy ate is +++ for me to go allin on pushing irrel's lynch today

I'd really prefer to skip that part and just lynch him?

also performer's pred ate'd better if you want to townread ate, it's just not in the front of your mind

90% of irrel's ate is basically complaining that the game isn't fair in ways that could easily apply to either alignment

I'm not really seeing it. Care to explain?

I’m real confused why anyone thinks I would have holstered my shot as scum last night but I don’t care to engage with ruru much at all anymore and I probably still win by dying so do whatever

if your'e scum and someone else got rb'd you can frame them; i'm not entirely following why it you think it should be obvious that scum!you wouldn't have shot last night?

I mean, do you think Irrel is that confident in their scumplay to take that risk, when they're already being SR'd, Performer/Enigma green flip makes them more suspicious?

also the fact that you and skitter are townreading his policy-worthy ate is +++ for me to go allin on pushing irrel's lynch today

I'd really prefer to skip that part and just lynch him?

also performer's pred ate'd better if you want to townread ate, it's just not in the front of your mind

90% of irrel's ate is basically complaining that the game isn't fair in ways that could easily apply to either alignment

ate really really works on me
i need like several irl days distance in order to read it like unbiasedly
and yeah it's making me not want to lynch him today

i'm not entirely sure that it matters - from my pov lynching through {irrel/performer/enigma} wins the game nearly always and i'm like not dying before like n6 at this rate and i can make sure that happens

I agree on this. Lynching those three nearly always wins the game.

@korina: i know that scum!you is very wary about posting because you're worried about outing your partners
does scum!you's posting habits change when you're last scum?

I thought about this a bit more: Yes, my posting would change. This is something I'm not used to, so I'm obviously playing carefully and trying to figure out what I'm wanting to do. I'm playing more passively than I would early-game, (something I'm already used to living through).
I feel like Scum!Me in this situation would play passively for certain. Contrast to what I said, I don't think I would play very care-freely at this point. If I knew, (or felt like) I certainly had the game won and the only way I can lose is modkill, yea, I'd play totally care-free. However, I don't really see scum being able to have a guaranteed win at this point, so I think I would be playing more passively than I would be already. I think it would be more of an amplification of my normal scum-meta, not to avoid giving away partners, but, rather myself.

idk was just wondering if your posting would change discernably

also wondering if i'm letting you coast cuz of an early townread from literally weeks ago

My posting would. There's no way around that. Final-Scum!Me in this situation would probably be very nervous in this situation, and play even more passively, like I said.

if your'e scum and someone else got rb'd you can frame them; i'm not entirely following why it you think it should be obvious that scum!you wouldn't have shot last night?

So like,

Let's say I'm scum.

1 - If I don't shoot, and I get roleblocked, I become semi-confirmed scum (or at least that much more likely to get lynched)
2 - If I don't shoot, and someone else gets roleblocked, they become semi-confirmed scum (or at least I have a chance at mislynching them (though for some reason y'all think I would instead begin to play like garbage a game day in advance while lynching my partner in hopes that I could get one more mislynch in before my death is inevitable but regardless))
3 - If I do shoot, and I get roleblocked, things are exactly the same as scenario 1
4 - If I do shoot, and ruru dies, I trade conf!town ruru for conf!town {performer, enigma} which is sort of a bad trade in terms of mislynchability but at least one more townie is dead (and we stay in evens, which is pro-scum). Given I need 5 more townies dead to win, I either would need:
--> 2 mislynches (one of {enigma, performer} &, idk, korina) and 3 nightkills (ruru, Alonzo, doesn't matter because at this point I've won, unless we no lynched in mylo, in which case I just kill a conftown and it's lylo anyway)
--> 3 mislynches (performer, enigma, and one of {korina, skitter}) and 2 nightkills (ruru & Alonzo)

So by holstering you're assuming I'm going for more mislynches & fewer nightkills, but actually looking at it it's not that unreasonable a play and this is probably exactly the point I would try to make as scum for you to townread me, so I guess it's not as strong a point as I thought it was.

It's still not what I would do as scum here, but I guess that's more of a fun post-flip tidbit than it is AI for me to say rn.

Once again, this is my point: I honestly don't think Scum!Irrel would bother with this. I think Scum!Skitter would try it, however, anyone else wouldn't. It's too risky, and I don't really get the vibe that anyone else is that confident in their play apart from Skitter. That doesn't mean I'm SRing Skitter, however, I just generally get a vibe from Skitter that she's confident in how she plays, ergo, if she's scum, she'd probably try this.

then why are you still ateing and making it annoying to lynch you? like I don't believe that you're actually ignorant of what you're doing here.

okay, great.
I will now prodge until the game ends.
This is not game throwing, I'm that confident Performer is scum and will die that I feel no need to sort further.
ruru is right that my temper tantrum is just that we're not winning as *fast as I'd like* so I'll stop AtEing.

Wait, real quick gonna analyze the possibilities here (you'll forgive me for a few more words, this is probably my last real post):
If enigma is scum, and I'm today's lynch
6 person night, presumably holstering again (so as not to conftown performer) // 6 person day, performer lynch // 5 person night, either ruru dies and alonzo conftowns korina or no kill // 4 person mylo with alonzo and enigma 1v1ing or 5 person day with enigma at the bottom of the lynchpool
this is fine.

If Korina is scum, and I'm today's lynch
6 person night, potentially holstering again (so as not to conftown one of enigma/performer) // If holstering, 6 person day, performer lynch // 5 person night, holstering again // 5 person day, enigma lynch yada yada town wins here
If not holstering, 5 person day with conftown performer(could be enigma, but for example) and dead ruru, enigma lynch // 4 person night where korina might holster/get roleblocker but either way is in a 1v1 with skitter and there's some number of conftown

Yes okay town wins unless it's skitter and I'm willing to bet the game on town skitter
If I were scum I would concede here, honestly (hint @scum: concede)

If I'm scum here, I threw by holstering last night. It's impossible for me to win as scum if I holstered last night, barring modkill.
Reasonably, I wouldn't be blocked, so I'd try to kill off Ruru, leaving {Me, Skitter, Alonzo, Performer, Enigma} alive. Performer/Enigma may get confirmed, sure, however, that doesn't really matter all that much. I can try to express suspicion in {Performer, Enigma}, and try to get one of them lynched, the other RB'd.
If I do that, I can win. I just have to kill off Alonzo because he's the only one who could deny victory. (The game would be {Skitter, Me, Alonzo, Performer/Enigma} at that point as well.)
Let's say things do go according to my plan, what happens next? Only {Me, Skitter, Performer/Enigma} are still alive. I try to convince them it has to be Skitter, (namely via my own meta, and the fact that Skitter would reasonably try to pull this off, I wouldn't, it's too risky), and if I do succeed, I win, gg. Otherwise, I lose, gg.

Regardless of this, I cannot be scum. I know holstering was a throw for me, so why would I try that when I'd be gambiting so hard at that point, that it wouldn't be worth it? Even if I could somehow win from holstering last night, (which I can't, I checked), why would I risk that when there's an easier path for Scum!Me to take?

Oh wait
If ruru is scum (just to cover all my bases, I don't believe this at all), and I'm today's lynch
6 person night, ruru has to holster indefinitely because she's the next nightkill // 6 person day, enigma/performer lynch // 5 person day, enigma/performer lynch // 4 person day, korina lynch? Even though I just showed above why Korina wouldn't holster indefinitely? Wait no I didn't, really. a ruru/alonzo/korina/skitter mylo is the potential problem case, huh? With indefinite holstering making it hard to know why they're holstering

Well if you're performer/enigma scum you should concede

Frick so now I have to bet the game on ruru/alonzo/korina/skitter all being town for my death to be strictly optimal play
... which honestly I'm really close to being ready to do, unless anyone disbelieves one of the role claims (given BuJ's TMI about the roles that skitter pointed out and I had also noticed, I don't disbelieve any role claims)

I'll ISO Korina before I bet the game on him being town, and other than the results of that will only post content when asked. Also I would feel yucky about voting myself but if two players ask me to I will.

I know I'm town, I believe Ruru/Alonzo being town. I believe Skitter being town, so that means it's optimal for your own lynch here.

This was a bitch to write, this took me two hours to do. My wrist hurts now as well.
Anyways, here are my thoughts.

[Korina]

@Korina thanks for the catchup. Why would you suggest alonzo rb enigma, AGAIN? How would that help more than rbing someone else? Regarding holstering speculation - scum would do that so the person who is roleblocked would get framed, is what I have been trying to say.

The self lynching proposal from irrel is highly scummy. That's downright lousy play if town other than vengeful town. If scum, well, that makes sense because scum self voting means they just stop giving more information for town. I highly highly doubt you're town because you have much more experience than proposing such a play, and for a reason I can't go into at the moment.

I said for Alonzo to RB between you AND Enigma if Irrel flips green. I'd much rather have Alonzo RB you for the sole reason if you're Town, then the last scum is forced to holster, otherwise you get cleared instantly. We lynch you, we just RB Enigma. We can keep doing this until the game is won.

And also, I'd like Alonzo to RB Enigma again, because the N2 RB proves nothing. It proves that Enigma didn't do anything, (if they even can), however, it does not clear them in any method. Enigma still has the possibility of flipping scum. I'd like to see that possibility removed before considering elsewhere.

I think I'll just sheep skitter

Or I could sheep korina ...

Ehhh, actually better if I sheep ruru as opposed to korina/skitter as ruru is almost mechanically conf!town and her NM style posting is working a bit

VOTE: elephant
L-1 btw

I mean, afaik, Skitter is wanting to lynch Performer.
I'm wanting to lynch Irrel... so I'm not sure what you're getting at here...

=> bujaber strongly wanting no-lynch + no-mass-claim to give prs another night may indicate that he thought that the prs were not really a threat to them? not sure. that would point to a very highly townread partner; someone like korina maybe

My thought was that Buj was thinking that whatever TPRs there are, can't screw over them, implying they recruited traitor. They could always have the other one preform the kill and Buj could get cleared from that. The only exception would be Vig + Tracker, with Tracker seeing mafia killing, and vig shooting the other mafia, however, the odds of that happening in the first place are really just negligible.

i'm a little wary that we're treating this game on lock and and that we might just be overlooking korina tbh (this is like a paranoia type read; my read on korina hasn't really changed tbh; maybe i should check what anit/cj had to say about korina)

I've already covered this, however, why would I out myself as Vex unless I was

that

confident in my scumplay, when this is literally the only site I actually play on?

i actually think bujaber + korina makes a certain amount of sense oddly enough because of just how strongly he was townreading him and like never interacted with him or questioned the read at all whatsoever

Wdym?

=> bujaber strongly wanting no-lynch + no-mass-claim to give prs another night may indicate that he thought that the prs were not really a threat to them? not sure. that would point to a very highly townread partner; someone like korina maybe

either that or he was afraid of a scum lynch making {rb, tracker} give real innos or he thought he knew who the PRs are already (based on hypo-innos, etc.) and could just shoot them which would lose town the opportunity for rb to telegraph target assuming no bg

or he just wanted to propose the mechanically-correct-looking thing and/or soft pr

Apart from Buj, who else would we be considering to lynch D3 that very well could be his partner?

ruru: [irrel, alonzo]
alonzo: [null, enigma]
irrel: [null, performer]
korina: [skitter, bujaber]
enigma: [skitter, null?]
performer: [bujaber, korina]
skitter: [alonzo, enigma]

I have no idea what this is, please explain.

I could maybe be convinced to swap enigma and korina in the scumpool? like I think enigma's been super town today while the other three haven't

I still feel like the idea of lynching Irrel, RBing {Performer, Enigma}, (preferably Performer), while you stay on Alonzo is pretty solid.
Obviously if no kills again, we hang Performer, and if that's green, we go for Enigma, if no kills, lynch Enigma, and if that's green, we go for Skitter at that point, and that would be game.

Even if Alonzo RBs me instead of Skitter, regardless of if there is a kill or not, Town has this game.

I'm making a possibility chart rn.

[Korina]

So, looking at all of them so far, the only way how scum can actually win is if scum is Alonzo (or Ruru in some cases).
Regardless, I think the best play is for Irrel to be lynched here, and for Performer/Enigma to be RB'd.

[Korina]

My chart is just a mess, and I'm having trouble making sense of it rn, so, no chart. Sorry.

[Korina]

ruru: [irrel, alonzo]
alonzo: [null, enigma]
irrel: [null, performer]
korina: [skitter, bujaber]
enigma: [skitter, null?]
performer: [bujaber, korina]
skitter: [alonzo, enigma]

hmmmm is scum more or less likely to hypo-inno a partner? not sure

I feel like they'd be more likely to hypo-inno a partner, just so they have an excuse to TR them.

I've already covered this, however, why would I out myself as Vex unless I was that confident in my scumplay, when this is literally the only site I actually play on?

it's more of a paranoia thing than something i'm really like actively concerned about

i just odn't want to completely overlook the possibility

That's fair.

i think i'm leaning more towards performer than irrel rn

i also think it doesn't matter super much because if there are any nks with alonzo alive we'll have enough lynches to just lynch through everyone

Afaik, it's just semantics on who we lynch at this point.
Regardless, Ruru flips before Alonzo, so we'd have an extra night with Alonzo even if Ruru flips.

I'd personally rather lynch Irrel before Performer only so we can see if our suspicions of him being scum are right or not.

[Korina]

Fair.

I'l drop hammer in around 20 hours unless anyone wants more time?

Hammer at leisure.
I've said everything I want to for the day.

Just remember to RB {Performer, Enigma} if this is green.

[Korina]

VOTE: performer
I don’t see scum not killing twice

[Korina]

My vote stays on Performer unless he gets modkilled.
I'll explain why in a bit, give me time to explain my reasoning.

[Korina]

My point here is that I do not believe that scum is certainly trying to gambit, and get Performer mislynched at this point. Unless scum is {Skitter, Ruru, Alonzo}, someone who is pretty much unlynchable, there is no way that Performer has been blocked, and there has been no mafia kill

twice

. If it is not Performer, Enigma, or Skitter, that means it has to fall between Ruru and Alonzo, however, at that point, I'm fine with mafia winning since they played such a risky gambit and pulled it off.

In Town of Salem, I've never seen this tactic being pulled off. I've never seen scum try not to kill in order to get a scummy player mislynched, even though, that greatly benefits them to do so, since, well, the game is so short. Now, lets translate that to this game, where games are a million times longer. Would scum try to pull something off like that unless they're unlynchable? No. Scum would never try to. That gives town more time to analyze this, and try to figure out who they are. At this stage, scum would want to play like a survivor: Try to get the game to end as soon as possible.

Like I said, unless scum is literally unlynchable, it has to be Performer or Enigma, because at this stage, scum needs to get kills if they are {Me, Performer, Enigma}. There's no way around that.

{Ruru, Alonzo, Skitter} would be fine not getting kills... for now, however, ultimately, it backfires on them, (exception being Alonzo).
Part of me is starting to think that Performer is trying to get anyone

but

himself lynched at this point, only to try to save himself. Why would Town!Performer do this when he knows he's been rb'd twice? Reasonably, any townie that's been rb'd twice would want to be hanged just to confirm that it is not them, and that it has to be someone else. Only scum at this point would be trying to stay alive.

I don't see Performer trying to confirm himself, (which would be lynch), I see him trying to save himself.
In addition to what I've said above, Performer is the most likely player to flip scum at this point. It really doesn't matter. He's been RB'd twice. Mafia have not killed twice. He's (in my eyes) mechanically confirmed scum.
Unless he's modkilled, or someone outright scum-claims, my vote will not change until his flip.

TL;DR
Scum can't be gambiting at this point unless its {ruru, Skitter, Alonzo}, who are basically unlynchable
Performer isn't really trying to prove himself, he's trying to throw blame elsewhere
He's mechanically confirmed scum imo

[Korina]

Why would we bother wasting our time on someone else, other than someone who has been rb'd twice, with no scum kills?

[Korina]

Something vex said is he lurks as scum. Vex & Korina's ISOs are over 200 posts combined already. So that alone....doesn't make me think he's scum over enigma.

Post count doesn't mean jackshit
I make large posts.
Trying to read me based on my overall post count on D5 isn't helping you at all.
It'll make you think that I'm scum because I'm not "being active".

My active is making large posts, not many smaller posts.

[Korina]

My lurking is making very short posts, if I even post.

[Korina]

I'm not, I'm saying my vote only changes if he is modkilled.

[Korina]

If he's modkilled, we know his flip.
Either the game ends, or its not him. Simple as that.

He's been rb'd twice now, and this is the closest to a cop guilty we can get, so please explain why we would deviate from that?

[Korina]

If I am scum, I wouldn't have proposed my plan of Performer > Enigma > Me/You > Me/You.
That ensure that I am killed at some point, therefore, a complete loss for me.

If we're on D7, it's either you or me at that point, (assuming Alonzo and Ruru are true).
Scum!Me would much rather try to force a draw out of this position, not ensure I am hanged at some point if it's not Performer/Enigma.

PEdit: A few of his posts earlier today kinda gave that off to me, namely saying it was Enigma/Me

[Korina]

If he's town, we certainly look at me or Enigma, but that's only if he's town.

[Korina]

I mean, if there was a quick hammer, then we know that they're scum

[Korina]

Alonzo announced L-1

in its own post

There's no excuse for not seeing it

[Korina]

@Performer, when your the main lynch candidate, you try to clear yourself. You need to make well written cases at that point.

[Korina]

Performer’s outrage at Enigma seems fake, while Enigma’s points/calmness seem genuine.
Enigma, are you at hiding your emotions or no?

[Korina]

I’ll also share what I make of Performer v Enigma in a bit, I just got home from a local furmeet and need to shower.

[Korina]

So, I thought about it in the shower a bit more, and my thought here is that Performers outrage at Enigma is either Town!Performer actually getting fed up with Enigma, or Scum!Performer trying to react how Town!Performer would.
I feel like Enigma's "I haven't been around in a few days" does hold up with this game in general, (and Enigma wanting to end this game), therefore I'm willing to believe it more so than Performer atm.

If it is not Performer, Alonzo should RB Enigma 100% of the time.

Hi I am here. Tbh I think we just lynch Performer and gg game over. I suppose I'm struggling a bit to see other logical explanations based on the night actions (rb and no kill).

Who else do you think scum could be if it's not Performer, and why?

Thing is, I'm still town here. I have seen enough , as enigma has returned just to say game ends with my lynch....though it doesn't as I'm town.

VOTE: enigma

I have nothing more to say.

So you're thinking Enigma is just popping in to say that you're scum, and game ends with your lynch?
I'm not really seeing it as that. Enigma has been AFK most of the game, so why would you say that's out of character for them?
Granted, if Enigma had been active then just suddenly stopped posting, and just now only posted that, I'd agree, however, I think this is in character for them.

I'd like to see your thought process however.

Sure, and suppose you flip town (which I highly doubt), I'm somehow going to pull off a victory if I am scum? Highly doubtful considering my position in the lynch pool (plus I would have NKd because I kinda just want to end this game).

If you were truely town, you would just realise your slot is a liability to town atm with the night actions thus far. Rather, you continue to deflect suspicion onto others. Pretty sure game ends with your lynch.

Anyways, are you ready for the day/game to end now?

Bolded part: That part I find extremely townie.
That's my exact thought process atm, and why I'm finding Performer's posting at survivalist. Town!Performer shouldn't try to deflect suspicion, but rather try to prove himself, (most likely via his lynch).
I'm not seeing that from him.

If you're so sure it's me , then why haven't you even voted me.

I mean... you are the one saying that we shouldn't quickhammer...
You can't really have your cake and eat it in this case...

Like I've said, my lynch has been virtually inevitable as soon as alonzo outed the 2nd result. But of course, scum would say I'm deflecting suspicion because the thing is, scum has been framing. The game doesn't end with my lynch.

I mean... two things:
1) Your "I'm being framed" argument is literally the weakest possible argument imaginable. It's so easy to claim that you're being framed. You have also not really tried to prove your innocence with your actions.
2) So does that mean that I'm also scum because I said that you were deflecting suspicion, or does that only apply to Enigma? Clearly me and Enigma can't be scum, yet we've said the same thing—you're deflecting suspicion.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have other priorities to be done this weekend. So regardless of what alignment you are - which I'm still believing is unlikely town - let's not waste anyone's time anymore and get to it. As in, let's progress the game.

I have a few problems with this post. It reads scummy to me regardless of them, and if I try to ignore them.
1) The annoyance, the "now if you'll excuse me, I have other things to do" feels fake. It doesn't really feel genuine to me. I get if he may have other things that he needs to do, however, this doesn't really read off as genuine.
2) If you would like to advance the game, you should've self-voted and allowed us to hammer. You're not however. You're delaying the game ending/the next night by you not self-voting, which reads off scummy to me.

[Korina]

gg
Finally this game is over.

Skitter, you owe me something.

[Korina]

if you want thoughts on what i think about your alt in comparison to your main lmk

I believe its time for this?

Also, feels really good to know that I nailed down that me, Skitter, Ruru and Alonzo were all town.

I was also yelling at you guys in the dead PT about it being obviously Enigma, and me being salty about you breaking away from my plan Alonzo.

[Korina]

I was actually losing interest in this game towards the end, so, that's why I was posting less and less. I was just getting bored of this game.
We had the game solved, we just... didn't really wanna act on it.

[Korina]

Looking at mod pt as well, and in retrospect, @Ofrhz, Enigma killing me was the best option, (only beaten out by holstering, which was dependent on who Alonzo RB'd).

If Alonzo RB'd me, I'd get hanged and I say for Alonzo to RB Enigma, and to lynch them tomorrow, because there's no way they aren't scum at that point.
If Alonzo RB'd Enigma, they'd get hanged, and I'd be pushing their lynch super hard, resulting in GG.

Enigma choosing to shoot me versus Skitter or Ruru/Alonzo is better only because I'd be tunneling Enigma the entire next day.

[Korina]

Dead PT: viewtopic.php?f=90&t=77148&p=10407565#p10407565

Mod PT: viewtopic.php?f=90&t=77142&p=10406581#p10406581

You forgot my PT as well

[Korina]

Not really, it was just mostly me posting thoughts about the game.
I should've, but, it was where I posted reads in progress and then just spamposted thoughts

[Korina]

First page is just me theorizing about modifiers, second page is me commenting on what others have to say + thoughts/reads, third page is more thoughts and reads, plus me just complaining about the game somewhat, fourth page is some spamposting thoughts during nighttime, fifth page is me speculating how scum could be Alonzo followed by me telling Ofhrz to lock the PT

[Korina]

I also just now realized that I said that if A50 flips town, Anti/Buj has to be scum... yet I never acted on that... lol

[Korina]

Well, rip
Could've probably avoided your lynch Gamma, but I forgot I had said that, or I just didn't really care enough about it because jfc this game made me hate myself for subjecting myself to it

[Korina]

Yea, this game was fun.
Nice to know that some of my reads were right, (namely that Ruru and Skitter were locktown from the very start).
Not really sure what Frank was doing however, so...

Vex served his purpose; I've proven to myself that, yea, I actually am a pretty decent player.

I guess I should go into why I wanted to play as Vex as well:
I've been debating on quitting FM for a while now, only because I just have felt like I'm a horrible player and that I've been a drag on all games that I was involved in. I created Vex as an attempt to just prove to myself that I really can play extremely well, and that my feelings were illogical. I decided to join a random open game without paying attention to anything about the game, only the setup, to see how well I could play.

Obviously I played really well which sorta carried over to Korina, however, at that point I was starting to lose interest so...

/shrug

[Korina]

I mean, I was considering quitting because for me, its not really fun to play a game where I feel like I don't really help out, nor when I feel like I'm not contributing very much.
This game was meant for me to try to prove that wasn't the case.

It's whatever though.
I've proven what I wanted to, to myself.

[Korina]

I'm obviously improving as a player overall, which is what I wanted to prove.
Anyways, game relevant stuff:

This game started off fun for me, and then slowly just got more and more a grind.
It just... wasn't a fun as much past a certain point.

[Korina]

Once everyone started to replace out d1, I just started to get burnt out, and it never really got better from that.
I like the setup still, however, the only problem was the sheer number of replacements.

Yea, that's one of the reasons why I'm still playing is because I've proven to myself that I actually am pretty good.
The only problem is finding setups that I actually wanna play in