Witches' Halloween Ball [Game Over]

[DVa]

Hi fam!

We should just ask our townreads to the dance basically right?

Karmeleon, do you go by Karmy? What's the short version of your name?

[DVa]

Yes, Mr. RC

So you agreed with RC here -- how long does it take for you to townread someone?

Do you think you are likely to develop solid townreads when there is no RVS?

[DVa]

@Karmy,

If not, it might be worth just leaving me to be the odd taru out for the good of town.

What do you think of Shortaru not understanding that none of the bros will be left out at the start of the game?

pedit: would you prefer someone chatting in a lover's neighborhood?

[DVa]

I like your style.

Karmy, would you like to go to the dance... with me?

[DVa]

Do I assume you TR Karmeleon then? Why?

You're town, mala is probably town, and he's town.

I usually make pretty fast decisions on my reads if people are talking and I can interact with them in real time.

[DVa]

What part of let's not give early invitations is so confusing DVa?

I usually decide people's alignments in six to ten posts tbh. I think most people do

Do you think Karmy is scum or that I am scum or that it's truly too early to make decisions? If so, tell him not to accept.

[DVa]

I don’t even know you! I’m okay with an early p2 read from someone I know

You asked RC to dance knowing he would probably put more pressure on you as a result to sort you before accepting. I don't see scum doing that on page 1 tbh, unless you're like, Maria or something

[DVa]

Shit Gamma did you roll scum this game?

[DVa]

You didnt answer why you TR him, also why do you townread me?

You're already markedly different than in BoR so unless I have a reason to scumread you I'd say you're not likely to be scum here.

There's some more I could say about Karmy but I'd like to see what he says in response to the invitation first.

[DVa]

Teach me this powerful voodoo magic...

Step 1: Sort aggressively
Step 2: Never mislynch town on day 1
Step 4: Win
Step 3: ???
Step 5: Is step 3 out of order, or step 4?

[DVa]

Shortaru is now town.

[DVa]

It's informed by me judging your reaction time to a simple question that you didn't overthink.

[DVa]

Yeah this time I can't just randomly shoot someone if I get put up to L-1.

I also thought I was one of only a very small number of desperados so I thought my role was more important than it really was

Here I'm VT and know everyone is a VT so there I don't even have to worry about dealing with people playing like TPRs

[DVa]

Fire did you choose to be a lady for mechanical reasons or just to be funny?

[DVa]

Yeah a little

Also kinda cute

[DVa]

Step two is actually kinda dangerous :O

Yeah I've seen the statistical argument that town does better mislynching on day 1 in terms of game wins but I'm not sure it would hold up in this setup with everyone being lovers.

Also, I love your new avi!

[DVa]

Btw I’ve been alternating gentleman and lady throughout these I think
I know I was a lady last time

Are they twice a year? Valentines + Halloween?

[DVa]

Still wanna dance with Karmy.

[DVa]

Does this game have four or three scum, I forgot

I believe this dumbtell

Maria were you joking here? Because I don't think Firebringer is unaware of how many scum are in the game and this seems like a really weird reaction to his post. Why would you "believe this dumbtell"?

[DVa]

...

did anyone else notice he cut off a relevant part of my post?

Let me spell it out PERFECTLY CLEAR for EVERYONE.

TRYING TO CONVINCE PEOPLE YOU ARE TOWN=ALIGNMENT UNINDICATIVE

TRYING TO MAKE SAFE NON CONTROVERSIAL STATEMENTS TO AVOID PEOPLE LOOKING AT YOU = SCUM MOTIVATION

is that clear enough

does LLD always caps this much by page 10?

[DVa]

Moment
Lady Lambdadelta
DVa
Firebringer
Karmeleon

I think this group is all town at this point

Also leaning town on shortaru at this point

Here is where I'm leaning scum:
Sakura Hana
Brian Skies

I disagree with Sakura being scum here but beyond that it's kinda freaking me out that Dunn opened with a reads list this game. idk maybe I need to look at some other games, he just seems to be trying to be protown more here. Not that that's a bad thing, just means he feels different

[DVa]

RadiantCowbells - duh
Gamma Emerald - I think town?
Dunnstral - scummy
Karmeleon - scummy

MariaR - towny, would dance
DVa - scummy, doesn't feel like genuine posting
Moment - towny, would dance
Sakura Hana - towny would dance (but alas, she has her sights elsewhere)
Firebringer - I can't get a read on this... everything in me screams scum, but wtf would scum be so blatant for?
Lady Lambdadelta - scummy

I disagree with:
Gamma, Karmy, Maria, and maybe LLD (obviously I know he's wrong on me)
Dunn I don't disagree with strongly but I wouldn't say scummy, more he feels diff and I need to decide what that means.
I still think Shorty is town because I don't think scum would be wrong on this many reads this early, but I do feel like we're looking at this game in very different ways

[DVa]

Scum would obv know they have 2 other partners ie 3 scum. So I believe fire when he says he forgot how many scum were in this game. So no I wasn't joking

I'm not sure that I believe that you believe this.

Either you really think Fire is derptastic or you are fabricating a reason to townread him

That "dumbtell" post really bothers me coming from you

[DVa]

DVa's still town and I can defend my girl

dawww

I got you something

Spoiler:

[DVa]

I'm tempted to just call it trolling. The more likely to come from town kind of trolling.

yeah I thought Firebringer was obviously trolling, so Maria calling it a dumbtell seems weird af

[DVa]

Why do games always die when I show up q.q

maria posted 5 minutes before you posted this?

[DVa]

It can help if you don't focus on all 18 pages at once but just focus on one post and one page at a time. Just give reactions to posts as they strike you.

[DVa]

3 Mafia Gentlemen/Ladies vs 14 Town Gentlemen/Ladies, Open setup

[DVa]

Yeah I realized after, but basically no, it doesn't as far as I can tell. I mean you're the one that pointed to the links of all the previous games

[DVa]

Me giving a read list isn't anything weird

I mean you didn't do anything near a reads list in Boundaries of Reality, but I guess that game was really short

Of the three of these you have been in, you didn't give a reads list in Midsummer Night's Revelry (where you were town) or New Year's Eve (where you were scum), but you did in Valentine's Dance (where you were also scum) and I haven't seen any of your games where you throw down a reads list as your very first post

I'm not gonna say it's antitown or scummy it just throws me off since my impression of you in Boundaries of Reality was a lot more laid back. Since you're a guy here and you literally cannot die in this phase of the game it's confusing to me why you would be trying really hard to be seen as protown. Since it feels like the other guys are bundles of apathy or freewheeling it (<3 Karmy) you coming in as unusually organized struck me

maybe you just hit the thread where there was already content so you felt like you could do a reads list. I dunno

[DVa]

RadiantCowbells -- pretty much signing up to die during intermission

Would dance
Karmeleon
Kokichi Oma

Would dance if RC rejected top two picks
SirCakez
Brian Skies
shortaru

Dunnstral
Dunnstral

Would dance with the assumption I will suicide at start of first dance
Gamma Emerald

[DVa]

How do you feel about Sakura Chi Bri and sor @Dva

Still like Sakura for town, I need at least four more posts from Chibi before I can make a decision there, Brian defaults to town since there's scummier people in the game,

is sor "Shortaru"? If so I'd say he's town but I think he's wrong on most of his reads

[DVa]

Please never auto suicide it's one of the major factors on why town loses this set up over winning. It's best to lynch yourself.

Sure, that's fine, just giving my sense of the pairing

[DVa]

You're already markedly different than in BoR so unless I have a reason to scumread you I'd say you're not likely to be scum here.

This hasn't really changed. I felt like I had identified Sakura as my 3rd top pick for scum fairly early in BoR (the only of my top three to be correct) so I'm feeling more confident about my ability to correctly sort her as a result. Tonally she feels a lot more town to me here than she did there. I think that if she was scum here she would be pinging me more by now.

What posts from her do you find scummy?

[DVa]

I believe the rules say a gentleman can only accept one proposal, which gives the impression of finality yes.

[DVa]

Yeah, I can see why you dislike those posts, but I feel like scum Sakura would have written them differently.

Instead of quoting the post and responding with her different take, she'd say, "LLD townreads [these four people], but that's wrong."

Like it's how she engages for me. When she was scum in BoR, she was 'this person said this, this person said that, this is how I feel about this thing that happened.'

Here she's, "You're wrong" and "I'm fosing here" and "but why?"

Like the style and structure of engagement seems really different to me and that's one of the things that always stands out to me in how certain people play scum vs town. it's why I was scumreading her in BoR and why I'm not here

[DVa]

At this point? Not really to be honest.

I'm godawful at gathering reads from other people's interactions since I don't know who I can trust, so you're just going to have to give me a little more time to actually engage and talk to people properly since I was absent for most of yesterday.

OK maybe a smaller pool of choices would help

If you had to choose between asking either Shortaru or Gamma Emerald to the dance, and you could only pick one, which would you choose? Why?

[DVa]

Firebringer - Bit of an anarchist vibe but not necessarily scummy, especially since 1 or 2 people mentioned that this is how they usually play as town. Leaning prob town.

I feel like I'm in principle opposed to townreading someone based on a meta of anti-town behavior. Why do you lean prob town here rather than "hmm" or null?

[DVa]

I'm willing to base my read off anecdotal meta for the time being because it's probably at least slightly better than my gut feeling.

I strongly disagree with ever valuing other players' meta over your own gut.

[DVa]

Here's my thoughts on meta reads.

Ask what specific games people are referring to that give them that impression.

Then ask them to link those games.

Then read those players in iso and see if you agree with their impression.

Otherwise, you give a) scum the opportunity to misrepresent meta and b) town the opportunity to be wrong or lazy about reads which makes them harder to sort too or c) town to be wrong or misremember games that were very complicated and may have been a long time ago

Some players on this site categorically oppose meta reads specifically because of both of the above points. I don't think meta is totally useless, but I do think it is a tool that is *secondary to gut almost every time* and that it *must be verified otherwise it is useless*

People not commenting on a meta of firebringer isn't tacit acceptance.

[DVa]

Regardless of whether I agree with 585, sometimes it's more interesting and illuminating to hear a fresh perspective on someone's alignment.

I'm not saying don't give your impression of a player for whatever reason, but if that reason is meta, unless it is backed up by evidence it is only marginally useful. Saying "other people say this person does this as town so I'll accept they do it as town" is a very good way to have an incorrect read

[DVa]

Sakura I townread you and Kokichi and want you two to dance with me and Karmy and RC and whoever he picks to go with

We're gonna win this together

like Maria is scumreading you, but maybe that's because Maria is scum? just throwing that out there...

[DVa]

I guess you believe that Maria really thought Fire was dumbtelling with the 4 scum thing?

That post really bothered me ngl

[DVa]

Why does it bother you so much? Everyone was saying firebringer was trolling. Is it that hard to believe that I thought fire really forgot how many scum are in the set up?

yeah but trolling implies he knows the count and is acting dumb to provoke a reaction, it's very different from thinking he *actually* doesn't know the scum count in an open game

I know he tends to be way more focused on his personal relationships with people in games than on the actual scumminess of people but that seems pretty disengaged even for him

I don't know him saying he really did forget makes him scum but it certainly doesn't make him town

pedit: guess people are online right now

[DVa]

am I going to have to fight you on Gamma scum?

[DVa]

What I don't understand is how it is so impossible for you to understand my pov that you're scumreading me hard for it

you're highly capable and when you were town in Boundaries of Reality I felt like I really was in a groove with your posts (even though it's like we weren't even town in that game together since I died n1 and you only started posting on d2, but I did read that game closely).

I just really felt out of groove with you on Fire here and that has me very worried because a player as capable as you won't make a lot of slips

that being said I'd still lynch Gamma over you

pedit: I feel like I'm having a Cakez moment here with these preview posts

[DVa]

i'm not actually particularly sure that karmeleon is town as much as i think i can get to that point if the game continues
(i would take it as a scumclaim if karmeleon accepted the poorly considered invite now)

tbh I proposed partly to see if he would accept when you had said not to do early pairings

I did think that if he had accepted he would have been locktown to me for being willing to stand up to you as IC

I still think he's probably town but I'm slightly less sure than I was on page 2 lol

[DVa]

Short I mostly like for town. The only post I didn't like was when he said he was hard reading the wiki. I feel like newscum reads the wiki more than newgreen but that's... not a very strong tendency or at all reliable. He's still pretty town aside from that

I'm not sure our PT would be that exciting, I'd probably ignore it and keep everything in thread, which might be for the best anyway.

I mean that's what would happen with karmy anyway probably since he said he doesn't prefer the PT either.

[DVa]

I want Sakura Kokichi and Dunn to tell me how they feel about moment because I feel moments play here is night and day from BBtag

that's right moment is in this game I keep forgetting

yeah I'm pretty sure at least two of the scum are in the women

[DVa]

odd thought but the scum is randomized right?

it's not guaranteed that there is at least 1 male?

[DVa]

I'm only suiciding after atleast two scum are dead

if you town up enough to get paired with me you are not going to have permission to commit suicide

[DVa]

Alright you 5:

Karmeleon
Kokichi Oma
Brian Skies
SirCakez
Dunnstral

Your goal in the next 7 pages it to become townier than Shortaru or Gamma Emerald.

This... should not be too high of a standard

GOGOGOGOGOGOGO

(P.S. THIS MEANS YOU KARMY <3)

[DVa]

Karmy --

Out of these names

MariaR
Moment
Malakittens
Firebringer
Princess Celestia
Lady Lambdadelta
ChibiBear

who are scum?

which one is so scum they shouldn't get a pairing?

[DVa]

Moment town
Malakittens leaning town
Lady Lambdadelta scum
ChibiBear scum

Yeah I'd like some explanation for these 4 in particular

[DVa]

I like their LLD push in particular

what about this do you like? Can you point to a few posts that you felt seemed genuine?

[DVa]

@RC, I'm mostly with you on Chibi. My one ping was here:

Gamma - Feels like he's posted a fair but but hasn't said much, definitely keeping an eye on him.

On the one hand, I can understand this reaction, but I also am worried this is how newred would try to distance.

For the most part, leaning green though, yeah.

Gamma seems to be on my mind a lot when looking through the Lady's isos. I also notice from Moment several posts like this:

I think Gamma Emerald is likely scum.

I feel like Moment reminds us that she thinks GE is scum like, every 10 posts of her iso, but hasn't really developed the push much.

idk I also haven't actually explained why I think GE's scum here so glass houses and all that, but I feel like Moment has held GE as scum more consistently but still not developed it (one of the reasons I kinda keep forgetting about her posts, they feel lacking in substance)

[DVa]

Since my pairing seems to be the thing right now, we could do Hurt and Heal tags.

Heal = top male townread that should be my pair

Hurt = top female scumread that should be excluded from the dance

i.e.

HEAL: Karmy

HURT: Moment

not memegif lockscum on Moment but I think her posts are bothering more atm than Maria's Firebringer comment

[DVa]

Actually I think I dislike 168 even more now looking back at it again

pedit: lld is a lady

[DVa]

I've been bothered about her at this Moment

see this is why we should be a pair LOL

[DVa]

I have a habit to distrust people who take charge of a game like LLD has been doing

are we reading a different game?

[DVa]

Since my pairing seems to be the thing right now, we could do Hurt and Heal tags.

Heal = top male townread that should be my pair

Hurt = top female scumread that should be excluded from the dance

i.e.

HEAL: Karmy

HURT: Moment

not memegif lockscum on Moment but I think her posts are bothering more atm than Maria's Firebringer comment

srsly tho I think this will help, I'd really like to see some tagged and committed positions on top male and bottom female

[DVa]

what has been leaderish in LLD since 92?

I mean yeah she's playing actively but I don't think she's been overly leaderish since her opening post, and well-thought out posts like that in early game I tend to think were the player's thoughts they had before they got their role card

[DVa]

What if I am male?

Who is your top male townread that you see as competition for my pairing? what male would you want to see alive in lylo (assuming scum opt to shoot RC over me during intermission) if it couldn't be yourself?

[DVa]

And this goes to DVa/Moment as well but MariaR and I have history and since RC is relying on others to read me I’m trying to see if MariaR is trustworthy.

I feel like you don't have a lot of presence and I can't remember any points you made in your posts without going back and rereading your iso

[DVa]

Brian you wanna play my game and nail down your top female scumread with a hurt tag?

[DVa]

Shotaru - Neutral/Leaning scum? He's said quite a few strange things, not sure if genuine or on purpose to exaggerate newb-ness, will watch carefully.
Kokichi - Prob town
Karmeleon - Behavior seems anti-town but I'm not really getting a scum vibe from him.
Gamma - Feels like he's posted a fair but but hasn't said much, definitely keeping an eye on him.
Dunnstral - Leaning prob town

Chibi have any of these changed? Regardless, who is your top male townread--out of your townreads here, which do you feel strongest on and why?

[DVa]

There will be no nailing of top females this is just a dance...

I feel like we go to different kinds of dances

[DVa]

I haven't written a case or anything - we can't vote to lynch anyone yet, and it doesn't seem like I'm in the minority in my opinion. At the moment it seems to me like it'd largely be a pointless endeavor. The exact same thing could probably be said about how much I've written regarding most of my townreads.

I wasn't ignoring you, Moment, I am thinking about what you said here and trying to decide whether it's AI.

I mean, I feel like it's kind of false--in a way, this is a day 1 like any other, with the caveat that day 1's lynch has to be someone in the female pool. Like we could simply be voting for the top female and do normal VCA, which is one of the reasons I've been pushing the hurt tags. *we are lynching today*, although you're right, Gamma isn't really an option.

[DVa]

If you want to get that intimate with your partner I wouldn't dream of telling you who to pair with

winky face

[DVa]

No.

Okay. Well how about A READ?

Kokichi is town and... what else is your stance on literally anyone?

[DVa]

Cool ty

Not to put words in your mouth but if I get the implication of your list--you don't want to hurt a lady because you want more content from princess first or something?


can you expand on Cakez SR?

[DVa]

I have no intention of even accepting a dance partner

y tho? I don't think you're at the bottom of hardly anyone's lists?

[DVa]

I haven't done a full list because I am really struggling with sorting the ladies. My gents list hasn't moved a terribly large amount

still thinking there's a good chance scum is 1 gent, 2 ladies, or possibly 3 ladies if I am wrong about gamma

Gents
townie
Karmeleon -- some of his posts are active posting and I understand why some people scumread him for that but there's been several reactions that felt pretty townie to me
Brian Skies -- he hasn't really pinged me and his last few posts have seemed pretty townie
Kokichi Oma -- this one is hard to say cause I feel like my reasons for tring Kokichi are the same as my reasons for scumreading Gamma, but when Kokichi does it it seems townie. other people know him better but this is where I'm at.
shortaru -- I've liked some of his reactions, some of his thoughts have felt pretty genuine, on the whole thinking newgreen
SirCakez -- I could almost put him below Dunn actually, tonally some of his posts seem townie but I'd like to see more content and a full reads list, particularly considering his critique of Chibi's
Dunnstral -- somehow I feel like I would feel more strongly he was town if he was town, but I didn't correctly sort him in BoR so I'm not sure my ability to read him is that consistent tbh
Gamma Emerald -- as I said, no presence, no effort, which for Gamma seems scummy but somehow for kokichi seems townie, and I don't know that I can verbalize that contradiction but its just their personalities and congruence I guess
scummy

Ladies
more townie/more confidence
ChibiBear -- not strongly opposed to this being newgreen until gamma flips red, at which point I do need to reevaluate the potential for this to be a newred partner. but until I know gamma is red 100% I'm fine with this being town.
Lady Lambdadelta -- feel like this is town mostly from poe but one thing I was thinking was that the caps rage seems to come and go erratically. also feel like the first post was actually a bit at odds with the general dynamic of the rest of the game, but not sure if that's just her deferring to you RC
Malakittens -- for some reason I liked her on page 1 and that hasn't fully gone away but tbh I might have been confusing her with sakura in that moment, I'd say my read here is low confidence
less townie/less confidence

defiantly null
Firebringer -- just don't know
Princess Celestia -- nothing to work with

less scummy
MariaR -- yes, I'm still hung up on the fire thing
Moment -- feel like a lot of the reads are consensus reads and some of the reasoning seems like it's trying to seem pro-town; also feel like the things she's said about gamma have a decent chance of being a bus if gamma flips red
more scummy

[DVa]

atm I'd rather Moment/Gamma

[DVa]

I like Brian but I guess it's an open question of whether he plans to actually stay focused on the game in dance 1, if he really doesn't want a partner I don't know I'd want to force him into it just cause I tr him

I like Karmy but I also want him to town up more for me rather than me towncasing him right now, I think a read list would help (all in one post too )

[DVa]

Is it weird that I'm really enjoying playing with you even though I think you're scum, Gamma?

idk, maybe it's the lack of voting scumreads and the need to townblock over scumblock but this game is really fun so far

maybe it's just cause I'm townread tho

[DVa]

Princess Celestia Oct 27, 05:46am Oct 27, 05:05pm

2 days 4 hours

2

@ mod please prod the pony

[DVa]

First dance will end if there are 12 players or fewer left alive or deadline is reached. During the intermission, Mafia may secretly force one of the dance pairs to leave. Second dance will then begin, and continue until the game's end.

I guess this is a question -- if we only pair the top 4 pairs (8 players living going into first dance) then does it skip first dance and go immediately to intermission, so we would be going from the mass kill of unpaired dancers into a nightkill (unless we hit all 3 scum)?

[DVa]

@mod -- if we only pair 4 pairs (8 players living going into first dance) then does it skip first dance and go immediately to intermission?

[DVa]

dva are you an alt?

technically, I was thinking about making this my main tho. I don't think knowing my previous account would help you sort me here and I don't want to out it rn.

[DVa]

Page 26
MariaR getting involved here is not good and she is attacking our confirmed town RadiantCowbells. Whereas Sakura Hana’s emotional and upset response seems due to maturity levels, I believe MariaR’s responses are from more mafia places because there is no emotion and no motivation for MariaR to get involved with an argument against our town leader.
Page 27-28
Not much except this plan for 4 pairs and I do not understand much but I will follow because smarter people know this set up clearly!
Page 29
I start to worry with so many people calling people “locked” town that someone here has to be wrong but everyone is speaking with such confidence and authority that it is hard to tell who is overestimating their abilities :\ I do not want to follow any “locked” reads I would like everyone to have open reads and think that they could be changed or maybe aren’t 100% correct when the game hasn’t even begun

So Celestia I'm curious about this section of your catchup post. First, Maria is a very capable player and I'm not townreading her atm, so I don't feel I'm biased against your position. But I also am curious about your reasoning here. First you say that Maria is "attacking our confirmed town RC" -- but I don't get this impression from what she's saying on page 26. Can you be specific or quote the posts you felt were unfair criticisms?

Second, you later on page 29 say that you're concerned about players being locked as town. But in this moment you are *specifically* objecting to Maria being 100% locktown and directly responding to LLD's 710 right? Or do you also disagree with RC's "locktown" reads of me, Sakura, or (not-so-locked?) shortaru?

Celestia, out of the men, who do you have as your strongest townread? Is your scumread of Maria strong enough you would say she should not be paired and excluded from the dance, or do you have another female scumread that is on par with Maria?

[DVa]

Hey Cakez, can you expand on the nature of your reads for these 4 players: LLD, Fire, Shortaru, and Karma?

Are your reads for those players based on tone or based on content? Can you point to the posts that are townie for LLD and Fire, and the posts that you see as most scummy for Shortaru and Karma?

[DVa]

i'm having second thoughts about dva and its making me sad

Why the second thoughts fam?

[DVa]

doesn't feel like nayone's contesting the game from scum side

Well, that could be because:
I'm wrong about an important read somewhere (not unlikely)

They're hoping they will get a pairing in the 3rd bracket (not unlikely and possibly related to the first)

Their wincon is basically getting scum in either the second or third bracket right? Like this game is basically coalition the way we're doing it

[DVa]

I've had a bad feeling since the beginning with how quickly people are townreading people.
Pretty sure I mentioned I had concerns with LLD and MariaR at some point.
There's also the thing with DVa being a lil different and more aggresive this game than BoR, but she said it's because of different role.

maybe also something to do with not being dead before page 10 lol

[DVa]

Dunn what have you thought about the accusations against Moment? She was in your townreads in your first post, has that changed? Could we see an updated list from you?

[DVa]

DVA where were you at on Dunn again?

Above Cakez and Gamma but lower than Karmy or Brian.

I kinda don't get why Karmy is so scumread tbh

[DVa]

Why is Gamma above Brian?

[DVa]

I mean if the categories are about equal then could Karmy just accept?

[DVa]

Did I misunderstand the list? It looked like you put Karmy in category 2?

[DVa]

Well you saying you wanted to suicide has thrown me off since you were my next pairing

[DVa]

Dunn can I see your full reads list?

[DVa]

Brian do you still plan to suicide/hope to die so you don't have to effort?

[DVa]

So not exactly overwhelming enthusiasm then?

[DVa]

Why is Sakura below Firebringer?

[DVa]

@GE I mean I am not prioritizing you because I'm trying to settle the top pairings, and yeah I'm not going to move you up based on your activity so far to a top pairing.

You can hit us with an Emerald reads list tho if you want, although I'm not promising my read of you moves a tick as a result

[DVa]

like Dunn is SO different here from how he is as scum that I would usually think he was like a TPR. Tinfoil I'm worried he's deliberately playing against his scum meta.

But he also could just be town.

RC how confident are you on Dunn town?

[DVa]

Things are lively rn and I have an event coming up so in about 5 minutes I'm gonna vanish for 2-3 hours which is annoying cause this seems like the time to be on

[DVa]

have to poof now for a few hours, don't stop posting just cause I'm gone, I expect this thread to be at least to page 50 by the time my event is done

[DVa]

Lld doesnt rc agree with ur read of short?

And I thought karm was in the middle for you and hes in the high middle for rc

Where is this huge divide in reads?

[DVa]

Good job on page 50 fam!

[DVa]

Rc how high is ur confidence in town dunn?

[DVa]

I thought you said to pair short with me?

[DVa]

Chibi took your #2 slot, DVa.

See this is why I dont want to pair with short

[DVa]

Should I dance with dunn?

[DVa]

Chibi took your #2 slot, DVa.

See this is why I dont want to pair with short

Wait, can you elaborate on this? I think I'm missing something here.

He is bringing up something I clearly already knew and being a downer about it

[DVa]

Should I dance with dunn?

Yes

Rc is this still where you're at?

[DVa]

I'm still enjoying this game even though I'm no longer RC's golden girl

tbh I'm just really digging this playerlist.

[DVa]

Damn and I had actually written up the Dunn dance invite when pedit you're back to short

[DVa]

RadiantCowbells - duh
Gamma Emerald - I think town?
Dunnstral - scummy
Karmeleon - scummy

MariaR - towny, would dance
DVa - scummy, doesn't feel like genuine posting
Moment - towny, would dance
Sakura Hana - towny would dance (but alas, she has her sights elsewhere)
Firebringer - I can't get a read on this... everything in me screams scum, but wtf would scum be so blatant for?
Lady Lambdadelta - scummy

what here has changed short?

[DVa]

In all seriousness though DVa, is there a reason you don't want to pair with Short other than him being a downer?

>If I was wrong on him and he was scum I would be angry.
>I don't think I could shitpost in the PT for the few hours or minutes it was even open
>Part of me is not high enough confidence on my read that it makes me very nervous betting my life on his alignment

[DVa]

Yeah but I was reluctant on Dunn too, do you think that's a possible scum pairing?

[DVa]

So is this like lock for you now?

[DVa]

Cause I'm still enjoying this game, and I'll still be enjoying this game, but my level of excitement is going to take a significant hit if I am locked onto Short, ngl

Yeah it's not even about my read even it's just... the shitposting potential, gone to such waste

pedit: is DVa/Short locked?

[DVa]

Sorry I'm not actually totally keeping up with your logic

So if I don't pair with short he goes to tier 2 with chibi and autowins is what you're saying?

because tbh I guess I'd rather Brian be t2

but I have a hard time following because I thought you were saying short/chibi and then me/dunn vs. me/brian vs. me/karmy

so if I accept short then brian is in t2 with chibi?

[DVa]

∾ ❁ ∾ ❁ ∾ ❁ ∾ sigh... Short Would you like to dance with me? ∾ ❁ ∾ ❁ ∾ ❁ ∾

[DVa]

Honestly, I'm just like... >< this close to simply replacing it because the way DVa talks about me is pretty shitty.

You're competing with Karmeleon, Brian Skies, and Dunn dude

don't take it personally

[DVa]

Honestly, that doesn't excuse talking about me like that but idc.

was I that hostile? that I wasn't going to shitpost with you in the PT and wasn't confident on my townread?

or are you mad I called you a downer? cause you pretty clearly are atm

[DVa]

Well you kinda bred the environment you got, sweetheart.

I shoulda fought it more but apparently RC just wants to pair me with whoever I fight and that has really killed my mojo

w/e it's done

[DVa]

Yeah but I never put enjoyment of the moment over confidence in reads or winning

[DVa]

Dude he said I was going to get move to tier 4 if I was with Karmy

and Karmy didn't accept the risky proposal so he kinda lost his chance

I was warming on Dunn but my acceptance there was totally on the confidence of RC's read

Brian I was confident on but I feel like he's unreliable

so it's like all my options have been fucked

at some point the game needs to move forward

[DVa]

yeah now I not only regret the pairing but now I regret not fighting it more

I think I need to focus my attentions elsewhere for the night now

[DVa]

Pair faster so we can get to the part where people start flipping mmkay?

[DVa]

I know no one read my game theory and that's fine, obviously I take winning a lot more seriously than others, but we're playing to win this one and if it's antifun for everyone I'll stay out of future dance games. But I want this win.

I wasn't trying to play dictator either but no one would engage me on my reads or style of playing the game and everyone just wanted to be dictated to? Like my vision was us collectively deciding pairings but no one wanted to play that game so I just matchmakered it

to be clear, I was having fun until you decided that instead of townreading me and then working with me on a strong overlapping read, you wanted to pair me with someone I would not have fun with in the pt

like, let's be real, that was basically your reasoning. You said Short or Dunn. And so, I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt on Dunn, and as soon as I did you took Dunn off the table and said it had to be Brian or Short. That's fucked up. You can't say your strategy isn't anti-fun if your whole strategy is pairing people who don't want to be together

At which point, I was basically left with a "fuck it" choice, since you never budged on Karmeleon even though he's obv af here

but yeah let's hurry up with these last pairing cause I'm pretty ready to fucking kill some people now

[DVa]

another reminder of all the doubts I have about shortaru's alignment

like can I leave the dance yet or what

[DVa]

god have i been toxic?

cause i swear the only thing i said that can be considered aggressive was at LLD for trying to control shit.

Seriously?

Literally the post before this one:

RC stop dictating shit.
Stop telling people who to read.
Stop telling people who to dance with.

I don't care if its a suggestion. Keep your suggestions to urself.
You aren't just making the game anti fun, you are making this game intolerable.

And I was trying to stick up for you before, but you saying shit about my play here like an asshole is getting me to consider you toxic.

manipulated into pairing here because I refuse to let this be in the top 2 pairings, basically already fell on my sword here

[DVa]

1680 was self-reflection on the tone of 1679, it wasn't a contradiction it was a self-criticism, and implying he's scummy over it is really shaking my earlier townread of you

I mean that ship has sailed for now, but hot damn you say some ??? shit

[DVa]

Yeah it wasn't hypocrisy either

[DVa]

DVA also had the choice of pairing Brian skies so like that's not really on me?

yeah, and then you said you'd put shortaru in the second bracket if I did choose Brian

that's not a choice, that's a threat

and you even framed it as a threat so don't pretend you didn't know what you were doing

[DVa]

Moment asks Karmy go

[DVa]

I actually think a Gamma/Firebringer flip would be the most productive for me personally, but I'm also enjoying Gamma's posts so I'm also fine with this

HURT: SirCakez - Malakittens

[DVa]

y?

[DVa]

Yeah it's more Cakez I was thinking has decent equity. As I said I think highest scum equity is in Gamma/Firebringer, so if we're outside of that we're kinda looking for a needle in a haystack. If scumteam is Cakez/{Gamma/FB}/LLD then Cakez might have kinda stopped caring about this game so while he might be busy he maybe is also not really trying because of that.

[DVa]

I think LLD flip slightly decreased your equity

[DVa]

FUCKIN SAVE ME I NEED SO MUCH SANITY CHECK THIS GAME

U-um hi

MARIA

I mean, apparently I'm not that good at reading LLD, but it would surprise me for this to be S+S a little bit. Not impossible, but enough to nudge you up a peg for now

[DVa]

Can we use hurt tags just for the next few days so no one gets lynched early

starting to wonder if this is necessary, it's not like there's a ton of votes just dropping left and right, game seems kinda slower than I'd expect for first dance 0.o

just cause the weekend or what?

[DVa]

People you’re scum reading me.

almost no one is tho? I think we (me/Brian/Short) want to lynch Cakez atm

[DVa]

it's 8 to hammer, you're at l-7 right now?

I think the hurt tags are unnecessary with the current pacing

VOTE: Cakez+

l-6

[DVa]

I think we (me/Brian/Short) want to lynch Cakez atm

lemme know if this is wrong and you're actually thinking kittenz

[DVa]

RC doesn't think think it will be informative, if you want it why not vote there?

[DVa]

Between the chumming around, meta talk, strategy discussion that I'm completely unfamiliar with, and bring angled into a pairing with somebody that has been nothing but abrasive to me, I just said fuck it and decided to agree with whatever.

I bet knowing that we were paired *because* of this interaction made it even more fun! /s

Yeah I've been trying not to get too tilted over Karmy's flip tbh. There's people saying shit about me and I'm basically just waiting for RC to flip his read so I can leave the dance. As soon as we flip the second scum I don't even know if t3 matters strategically so we can just nope out at that point if you want.

So why is this taking so long anyway. We hammer some combination of Gamma and Cakez and Maria until we get the second scum flip and then if the game isn't already over, literally everyone other than Chibi and Brian can just leave the dance in mass for win.

[DVa]

I had no idea what to make of that giant argument you guys had.

And I can't help but agree with Short, I know that being a (mostly) new player it's unavoidable but SO much of this game has been based on meta/personal relationships that I have very little to go on despite the huge amount of posts.

If I had to pick someone to vote out right now, it would be Princess.

Theoretically I should ask why you would say LLD was town if you didn't know what to make of the argument. But actually I kinda don't care

The real question is, why not just vote Princess then? What are you waiting for? You would be putting her at L-6, it's not like there's a risk of a bad hammer here

[DVa]

VOTE: Gamma-Fire

RC's going to be dead after flip and won't be able to re-evaluate anyway.

We should lock this down first and then play find the needle after.

[DVa]

I mean it's your last day in the dance (probably) so basically it's up to you and sakura what you guys want to do before this day ends

[DVa]

Choo-choo

[DVa]

I guess what I'm wondering is, if you want to disagree with the list Maria, which part do you disagree with? Do you think you and Dunn should be in one of the final two pairings? Are you trying to take a shot at Chibi? Cause I think it's really weird to just announce that you don't like the order without actually engaging in a specific argument about what you disagree with

[DVa]

ok so what are we talking about? lol

[DVa]

Well it seems like you're trying to freak out RC so I don't know what you were trying to achieve with your last few posts

[DVa]

I did ignore the PT, but he did make an appeal to me. I'm not sure 100% of it was fake so I'm going to cut some personal stuff that he gets into, but he did write a message that goes something like:

"So DVa, we got off to a bad start, but can we please work as a team and win this?

If you think I'm scum, please tell me what I've done to give you that impression because I have barely even been paying attention to this game because of the way it started.

The first few pages were enough to give any new player the Debbie Downers..."

(I tried to keep relatively close to the language but I need to double check the rules on whether I can directly quote the material from the PT in thread)

Then he gets into personal stuff I won't repeat, but I figure I should mention that he made a direct personal appeal to me in the PT. I don't think that should be surprising considering I was threatening to leave the dance, but if RC is open to considering the possibility that I should leave the dance as soon as we lynch the second scum I thought he should know before this day resolves.

I did reply to him basically telling him to not lose his shit and to keep the discussion of the game in the main thread.

[DVa]

@mod can I directly quote the lover's pt?

[DVa]

My paraphrase might have changed the language on that third line, I'll see if I can't just copy/paste it directly

[DVa]

OK well that's pretty close to his language anyway

[DVa]

Sorry this should be closer to his exact language on that line:
--
Think about how the first few dozen pages would feel to you if you had been here for less than a month. It's enough to give anyone the Debbie Downers.
--

So the first 'few dozen pages' made him feel bad?

[DVa]

He also implied that if he thought I had a personality conflict with him that he'd avoid my games in the future so there was a level of guilt tripping as well

[DVa]

like ngl I think I leave the dance as soon as we get the second red flip

[DVa]

But who do I vote today

gamma

[DVa]

I like ur hat

[DVa]

damn now I'm self conscious tho

I was liking this avi too

[DVa]

Gamma you know you're scummy

now tell the truth does this avi make me look fat?

[DVa]

<3

have you played with fire much before?

[DVa]

I feel like he has tried slightly more here than I would expect from one of his games I read but maybe that wasn't a very good example, what game are you thinking of that suggests jovial = town?

[DVa]

Mini normal 2021

I guess this game looks a bit like gamethrowing upick but there hes in the opposite direction and does a list at one point

Idk I dont think I know how to sort him tbh

[DVa]

Im passing out good night

[DVa]

What can I say Nancy, you look good in a suit

[DVa]

@Nancy, since you wanted explanations, here's where I am rn:

Townie
Kokichi Oma -- I've read Kokichi's town games, and this looks like his town game

Dunnstral -- I didn't correctly sort him in BoR and don't have confidence in my read. RC insists he's town; I thought opening with a reads list was unusual. At this point there's other people that are scummier. (Very much wish I'd pushed back on RC flipping his read on Dunn and danced here instead at this point)

Brian Skies -- Most of my read here was based on

Is it too early to volunteer as tribute?

which struck me as a ballsy gambit if scum

he could be townier tho

ChibiBear -- Fine with this being newgreen until I see a Gamma flip, at which point I go back to:

Gamma - Feels like he's posted a fair but but hasn't said much, definitely keeping an eye on him.

which did not, at the time, strike me as a genuine reaction to Gamma's slot based on what had been posted until that point

Malakittens -- There's been so little new content here for a while that I'm worried game will stall with her alive forever, and she's with Cakez who seems scummy. 'acceptable losses for a cakez flip'? that's kinda cold but kinda how I see it

Princess Celestia --

MariaR getting involved here is not good and she is attacking our confirmed town RadiantCowbells

While I don't townread Maria, I thought this particular attack on Maria was kinda weird at the time--I can see the POV a bit more now

Firebringer -- I don't know how to sort this slot even after having glanced through two of his other games. A little concerned since my last "poe null-->town" ended up flipping scum tho

MariaR --

So I believe fire when he says he forgot how many scum were in this game.

Maria hates me for coming back to this again but this post pinged me really hard. We've talked about this post so I wouldn't bring it up except it's still on my mind

I don't think your reads will have more influence in your death as you think they will. Will some people respect them and maybe use them for reasoning to some extent? Sure scum will if scum is in that pairing and town might too.

Frankly I just don't know *what* Maria was trying to accomplish with this post and so it bothers me

SirCakez --

LLD's sort of taking command looked town to me. I don't think she takes that tone as scum from my (admitedly vague) meta recollections.

didn't like this then, don't like it now

also never liked his suspicions of Karmeleon

Gamma Emerald --
didn't like him going after Karmeleon here

This doesn’t feel right to me. He seems to be trying to subvert the argument.

shortaru --

RadiantCowbells - duh
Gamma Emerald - I think town?
Dunnstral - scummy
Karmeleon - scummy

MariaR - towny, would dance
DVa - scummy, doesn't feel like genuine posting
Moment - towny, would dance
Sakura Hana - towny would dance (but alas, she has her sights elsewhere)
Firebringer - I can't get a read on this... everything in me screams scum, but wtf would scum be so blatant for?
Lady Lambdadelta - scummy

Putting aside the read on me which I didn't like, what really bothered me was why Gamma would be a leantown based on his posts, why karmy would be scummy, and *how he decided* LLD was scummy. In retrospect this read list almost looks too accurate based on the evidence that was available at the time.

He also was trying to play up being new green in points such as this:

Still learning the ropes in forum Mafia. Been churning through the wiki to get a handle on strategy, action resolution, and power roles (oh dear God the power roles!)

scummy

with all that, Gamma/Fire and Cakez/Mala both seem like, as pairings, the best places to look for a flip today to me

at this point it's quite obvious shortaru was a manipulative little fucker. I don't know that makes him 100% lockscum but he roleplayed the newbie card way too hard and had some wild fucking reads, so unfortunately Nancy, I think there's a solid chance you replaced into a scum slot at this point

[DVa]

RC did the House reveal change your read of Shortaru considering how much he played the newbie card?

And, since you're keen on the Maria pairing, did your read of Dunn change again? cause tbh I honestly can't keep track of your read on that slot

[DVa]

What about Dunn?

Also what are you jamming to rn? Any good tunes to suggest?

[DVa]

Shrodinger's Dunnstral -- scum if you're looking at him, not scum if you're not?

Dunnstral does your alignment in mafia prove string theory is real?

[DVa]

Firebringer.

Tell the truth

If you were town here, you would have at some point posted some massive image of a growlithe

[DVa]

sounds like something town me would do.

what other things does town you do that scum you doesn't?

[DVa]

that is a compelling argument

would you say you're a winston as town and a symmetra as scum?

[DVa]

shit maybe fire's town?

and I like gamma even when he's scum

this is annoying

[DVa]

successfully, although you keep trying to start one with RC and failing

[DVa]

tbh nancy implying she's not going to read every line in total ocd might be a scumtell, but I know some of you guys know her better

just the impression I got from town nancy last game

[DVa]

aww, you two seem cute, you should dance after the dance

[DVa]

RC how did you get to be such good friends with Firebringer?

[DVa]

The question is whether it's Gamma or Princess for you Dunn

who gets the orange-haired vote?

[DVa]

VOTE: Cakez

I must know what the secret weapon is

[DVa]

Suntan spray...?

[DVa]

OK, fair. I will only scumread you because of Shortaru instead, not because you're not reading everything as a replace-in

[DVa]

Yeah, I believe him too, I just don't think it makes him town

I do like you though and I'm sorry I wasn't alive long enough in BoR to properly flip my read of you. And even if you're scum this game, I want you to know you're still a good person deep down

[DVa]

I think I have played this game differently, but I'd say that's because I spent the beginning exclusively townhunting (and only townhunting gentlemen) rather than scumhunting due to the nature of the pairing mechanic.

[DVa]

She's assuming you're getting shot so it's not worth thinking about

[DVa]

i got the job. i am now a stripper.

Congrats Fire! I'm so proud of you!

I lived with a stripper for a few months. I recommend you work hard but do good aerobic exercises outside of the work, pulling a muscle or hurting yourself on the pole can be devastating to your income

[DVa]

Well I mean that would have required Fire to sign up as a gentleman

[DVa]

aww are we friends now?

:3 :3 :3

wait does that mean you're going to start criticizing me LMAO

[DVa]

VOTE: Maria

starting to care less about which of my bottom 3 pairings we do rn

[DVa]

u will never know my secretz weapon now dva.

NOOOOOO!!!!!!

[DVa]

I know you don't have a big reason to scumread Maria :/ can you not compromise on my pair?

I don't, but I'll also never be able to townread her. I know that's my fault for being terrible at reading her. I actually pestered Fakegod like... 5 times? for spoilers in BoR, just because I wanted to know what Maria was. And he held out on me 0.o

I had no idea what she was, and I have no idea how I was supposed to know after I looked over her iso after her flip

She's a PoE lynch who I have some reasons to think could plausibly be scum. I'd prefer Cakez but I'm not deadset on him. If compromising on Maria means moving the game forward, yeah ok whatever.

[DVa]

Wait didn't you say you jelled with me? So how can you say here that you can't read me? Or am I thinking of a dif game.

No that was me discussing BoR here. I did feel like I gelled with you, but that didn't make me feel certain you were town... hard to explain but there have been times in the past but sometimes I feel I townread people. I really wanted FakeGod to confirm you were town so that I could see if that feeling held.

Recently completed game is good example--I felt like I was seeing eye-to-eye with Elsa and ofhrz through most of the game, but then I wouldn't gel with them on one or two important reads, so of course they both end up being scum

I was hoping that sense would in time let me townread you but since it's not even applying here it's kinda 0.o

I don't even know anymore man. Also kinda strung out rn from that game that just finished lol

[DVa]

I think Dunn and RC should have danced

[DVa]

Oh hey Gamma <3

How are you tonight?

[DVa]

now I’m gearing up to watch the second episode of RWBY Volume 6.

do you stream this? is it worth to watch the whole series? I haven't gotten into it yet

also I'm right with others on getting bored af. Have you joined on Maria yet?

[DVa]

No, I also don't understand your push on RC prior to the dance flipping.

Like I kinda think if you were town you would have just chilled, waited for RC to be dead, and then pushed people on sheeping him post death

Instead it feels like you wanted the moral highground of him having flipped his read on you pre-death

[DVa]

Now you seem to be flailing.

Am I scumreading you now Maria?

[DVa]

Like, it's simple. I feel like you, as town, would be like no. "Brian" or whoever isn't lock town. You're wrong on this, RC. We should redo the top 4.

Instead you're like, "Let's drag this out for a while as deadline gets close right when the plan seems to be solidified."

I have a hard time seeing town motivation from your choice, particularly when you have said you didn't actually disagree with the logic of the final 4.

Nor have you said you want to be in the final four, or proposed another pairing.

So what has been the point of this big fight?

[DVa]

Spoiler:

Now you seem to be flailing.

Fire, let's dance next game ok?

[DVa]

I DID SAY THIS.
I DID SAY HALF THE SHIT YOU ARE SAYING RIGHT NOW

so why is brian not even a part of the conversation at this point then?

[DVa]

Yeah but this debate has not been about Brian

You haven't really critiqued the fundamental feature of RC's plan, which is one locktown pairing, and one "not scum together" pairing to ensure town gets the win by eliminating one scum.

And, like, it's not a secret that I'm pretty likely to leave as soon as we flip one more scum, because the strategic significance of the second pairing at that point is irrelevant.

So if you want to fight Brian being in the final pairing, then make that the fight. Because looking at your reads list, there's no one to replace that pair. There's no *better* pairing that actually makes it to endgame

so yeah, what's the point? You're not proposing a pairing over brian? you're just kinda grumpy about it or what?

[DVa]

You are finding every reason to cling to your sr to me because you can't read me and you're unwilling to change your mind. That is just wrong and makes the lack of wanting to play regardless of what side I'm on. I have shown you that you're outright wrong and you refuse to look at that. I proved you wrong but you still try to twist it for no reason

like I also have no reason to townread you tho

I'm not ignoring RC's points, you're not my top scumread but there are *some* reasons to be concerned about you irt LLD

and eliminating you, if you are both town, means cakez is very likely scum and then we get the second scum

all I want is the second scum Maria, and you are making it slow and pointlessly frustrating to get to that point