Mini Normal 2040: Day 4


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Post Post #3 (isolation #0) » Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:35 am

Post by DVa »

Image

VOTE: not_mafia
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Post Post #22 (isolation #1) » Sat Oct 27, 2018 6:14 am

Post by DVa »

In post 14, ofrhz wrote:Zarya is the best tank. Fight me

Last time I tried doing a triple tank comp and scum ended up killing me night 1 0.o

I think Zarya is a solid tank, but this game I think we should go QUADRUPLE TANK

Would you like to join my comp ofrhz?

If you're Zarya, we just need two more tanks and then a support. Then
we got this
.
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Post Post #24 (isolation #2) » Sat Oct 27, 2018 6:28 am

Post by DVa »

In post 23, Elsa Jay wrote:Clearly what you need is a Widowmaker main. I can also do Mei.

You're in, but you have to choose. With Dva and Zarya as two of our four tanks, do you go Widow or Mei?
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Post Post #26 (isolation #3) » Sat Oct 27, 2018 7:00 am

Post by DVa »

You're in.

We need at least one more tank now. Preferably someone with shields -- Orisa or Reinhardt.
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Post Post #39 (isolation #4) » Sat Oct 27, 2018 12:45 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 37, tictac wrote:@DVa I don't think either of ya individually scummy, but I'm drawing an associative here in blinky neon.
Ya can say ya understand why, so I don't hafta explain?

Well he did move off my RVS wagon onto a wagon on a player that doesn't exist so I'll agree with you that his play this game so far is curious, not sure how you get an associative tell from Sashaddin doing things that don't make sense tho so you're welcome to explain that
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Post Post #41 (isolation #5) » Sat Oct 27, 2018 1:08 pm

Post by DVa »

Do keep it on the d/l I don't want my main outed while this account still has ongoing games other than this one

Anyway, I wouldn't reveal my main to him even if we were scum together, so that theory isn't gonna work :P
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Post Post #44 (isolation #6) » Sat Oct 27, 2018 1:16 pm

Post by DVa »

That's actually a legit question

@Mod, do Scum have Daychat?


I believe that scum can only have daychat if it is announced in the rules, so I actually think scum shouldn't have daychat here?
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Post Post #49 (isolation #7) » Sat Oct 27, 2018 1:25 pm

Post by DVa »

Normal games don't allow it to be ambiguous. If it's not in the rules, it should not be in effect here.
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Post Post #51 (isolation #8) » Sat Oct 27, 2018 1:29 pm

Post by DVa »

Anyway, why is Auro your serious scumread atm?
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Post Post #63 (isolation #9) » Sat Oct 27, 2018 4:29 pm

Post by DVa »

Auro what do you think of Sashaddin here?
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Post Post #65 (isolation #10) » Sat Oct 27, 2018 6:48 pm

Post by DVa »

I'm less interested in the associative, more thinking about his scum equity in and of itself.

Basically just thinking of BBmolla's argument from our newbie game that "chummy = scummy"

Not that Sashaddin shouldn't have a sense of humor, just that I feel like he's
trying
to be funny in RVS. Kinda reminds me of how alien was before you replaced him in that last game

Probably not enough for right now. Anyone pinging you atm?
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Post Post #67 (isolation #11) » Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:21 pm

Post by DVa »

What don't you like about me BEF?
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Post Post #69 (isolation #12) » Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:57 pm

Post by DVa »

I'm aware that asking mods to clarify rules can be taken as lamist, but in this case it was directly pertinent to the accusations both against me and Tictac so not getting an answer here was not an option.

Would you rather I have not asked and we all sit here debating whether or not scum have daychat or not? Because that's not an interesting conversation.
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Post Post #72 (isolation #13) » Sat Oct 27, 2018 9:36 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 70, BrightEyedFish wrote:It just feels off to me.
If you were town, a scum day chat shouldn't have any affect on how you scum hunt and your response feels like you are trying to remove yourself from being tied to a scum pt.
uhh, it was directly pertinent to Tictac's accusation against me

and actually, yeah, it kinda is important to catching scum. the entire game is predicated on thinking through associations between players, and if they can communicate out of thread, that often matters to how they interact.

but sure whatever works for you man
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Post Post #101 (isolation #14) » Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:52 pm

Post by DVa »

@mod
is aslightrain getting replaced? or did they pick up the role pm and so are just going into prod range?
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Post Post #102 (isolation #15) » Sun Oct 28, 2018 12:59 pm

Post by DVa »

More townie
---
Elsa Jay
ofrhz
Clemency
---
tictac
BrightEyedFish
Auro
---
aslightrain
---
Sashaddin
Not_Mafia
---
less townie

Aren't solid reads, obviously there's not much to go on here, and I need rain to post to get any read. If Not_Mafia is just going to lolcat through this entire dayphase I'm A-ok with him getting strung up. I see no reason to think he will get easier to sort over time.

While Sasha is bothering me tonally, I'd really like to see some more pressure on Not_mafia. I do believe he is actually capable of playing the game and we shouldn't just wash our hands of him because he chooses not to most of the time.
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Post Post #106 (isolation #16) » Sun Oct 28, 2018 2:20 pm

Post by DVa »

What are your reads at Elsa?
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Post Post #107 (isolation #17) » Sun Oct 28, 2018 2:23 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 105, Not_Mafia wrote:VOTE: What

In terms of overall enjoyment of the game, does anyone actually want to be dealing with this on day 2?
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Post Post #109 (isolation #18) » Sun Oct 28, 2018 2:29 pm

Post by DVa »

OK well Not_Mafia just posted. Are you optimistic about your direct engagement with him?
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Post Post #115 (isolation #19) » Sun Oct 28, 2018 2:46 pm

Post by DVa »

Not_Mafia who are two scum who are in the game that aren't me?
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Post Post #120 (isolation #20) » Sun Oct 28, 2018 2:51 pm

Post by DVa »

It's 5 pages dude
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Post Post #132 (isolation #21) » Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:21 pm

Post by DVa »

And you wonder why you're at the top of my town pile
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Post Post #134 (isolation #22) » Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:26 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 130, Almost50 wrote:Auro: I don't know them.
ofrhz: Town unless scum (you know what I mean :P )
Almost50: That's me, and anyone who votes me gets the death penalty (plus will have to treat me to a dinner at a restaurant of my choice afterwards)
BrightEyedFish: He can be Town, unless he posts in the wrong thread. :P
Clemency: I don't know them.
DVa: Although I don't know them, they gave me a look I didn't like when I first walked in. KILL THIS!
Not_Mafia: Obviously TOWN by virtue of being Not_Mafia. I mena, the mod says this is Not_Mafia, so who am I to argue. Right?
Elsa Jay: I always confuse the two. They have the same hair cut :P Let's just say this is the survivor, although I know in a mini-normal there are no survivors. Just let him end game though.
Sashaddin: Let's talk about this, but not yet about that. Ya feel? Town for now.
tictac: I prefer KitKat, but I'll give him a pass on the basis he's refreshing.
So, granted that you don't know Auro or Clemency, what is your first impression of them? The question isn't "do you know people" it's "who is scum"? And so far the only person you have called scum is me, for observing that your obnoxious 'reading' post was obnoxious.

You also seem to be suggesting a policy "not lynch" on not_mafia for entirely joke reasons. Why should we read Not_Mafia as town in this game based on what he is actually doing in this game?
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Post Post #135 (isolation #23) » Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:27 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 133, Elsa Jay wrote:I literally claim to be evil and get townread for it.
If not_mafia is scum, his strategy is to lolcat into people no longer caring about the thread. So quickly moving past his nonsense I see as pro-town, yes.
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Post Post #142 (isolation #24) » Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:47 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 136, Sashaddin wrote:Is this an alt-account ?

Yes. Can we move on?
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Post Post #151 (isolation #25) » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:32 pm

Post by DVa »

Clemency isn't pinging me so far. Do you see anything scummy in his posts?
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Post Post #157 (isolation #26) » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:39 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 153, ofrhz wrote:
In post 151, DVa wrote:Clemency isn't pinging me so far. Do you see anything scummy in his posts?
He's null to me. But you have him near the top of your list - is there another reason besides him not pinging you?
In Boundaries of Reality, everyone who accepted being a part of my overwatch comp was town. Is that a reliable metric? Probably not. But it bought him some points in my book for now lol.
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Post Post #163 (isolation #27) » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:31 pm

Post by DVa »

Is it truly a policy lynch though?

What is the policy?

I am simply looking at his play *this game* and asking if I see any town. I don't.

I am not saying we should policy lynch him, I'm saying we should analyze his play this game objectively, and not have a "policy of don't lynch the troll just because he's a troll." That helps no one.

So I ask--by what metric is this a policy lynch, and not simply *the best possible lynch on the least town player*?
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Post Post #168 (isolation #28) » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:57 pm

Post by DVa »

Conversely, if a player is *actively cultivating a meta of anti-town behavior* then we should lynch that player for the overall health and enjoyability of the site.

If Not_Mafia is actively trolling games as town simply to protect his ability to be ignored as scum then he should be lynched in every game until he starts actually playing the game.

We should not reward previous gamethrowing by choosing to ignore anti-town behavior in the game we're playing *right now*

That you are *defending him on meta* makes me want to lynch him here even more, because you are creating a culture on the site where lurking is rewarded. Is it fun to play mafia by deciding how to sort someone who spends every other game gamethrowing? We might as well go to EpicMafia then so we can get the full experience.

So I say again -- don't policy lynch him. But don't *excuse his play based on an anti-town meta*

Just objectively look at his play this game and see whether he is playing in the interests of the town, or whether he is relying on an anti-town meta to deflect suspicion
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Post Post #171 (isolation #29) » Sun Oct 28, 2018 6:28 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 169, Almost50 wrote:@DVa: Continue this crusade on N_M and I promise you I'd get you lynched before him. For one thing; I can read N_M with some degree of precision. For another; if he is Town he has a very good eye for scum. He can be an asset and should never be lynched on D1 unless >I< (or someone else who knows how to read him) say so. I've seen him as one shot Cop who got us a guilty on D2. I've seen him as a Vig who took out 2/3 scums. I've seen him as a VT tunneling a scum slot all game until we finally lynched them.
Yeah except there's no reason to think that
A) you aren't scum with him or that
b) you aren't scum white knighting him

So far your reads list upon entering the game is "I don't know this person" or "I know this person." You seem to be more interested in pretending that you can use meta exclusively to read players in lieu of actually commenting on the substance of people's posts *in this game*.

Your policy non-lynch on Not_Mafia is far more toxic for the site than any policy lynch.

Moreover, your policy non-lynch on Not_Mafia is based on your personal ability to read him. Okay, if we went with that, and he was scum, say he kills you tonight and then there is no one left in the game that can so confidently read him? Why would we bet our chances of correctly lynching scum today on your ability to sort Not_Mafia tomorrow when there's no guarantee you will even be alive? And that's all presuming you're even town, which so far I see no reason to believe. And that's ALSO presuming that when you say you can sort him *you're not overstating your actual abilities,* which to be frank, I *highly suspect you are* because sorting a player who exclusively lolcats with 100% accuracy is basically impossible.

If I get off Not_Mafia, you would be the next pick.

And, more generally speaking, I do not join games to exclusively think about what people did last game or two games ago or three games ago. I join games to sort people *in this game* based on things they do *in this game* so you having a policy of globally white knighting Not_Mafia makes me want to also consider lynching you for that. You should neither refrain from lynching or lynch a player exclusively because of who they are or your personal relationship with them.
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Post Post #172 (isolation #30) » Sun Oct 28, 2018 6:30 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 170, Auro wrote:1. Do you think passive lurkers (impossible to read) should be policy lynched?
2. What's more important here - Overall enjoyability of the game, or maximizing town's winning chances?
No, I think passive lurkers should be asked to replace out if they are unable to keep out of the game. Usually they replace out anyway, or start participating when they get a better grip on the game. I personally see *hardlurking* as null, unless the hardlurk emerged as a result of pressure and isn't the default of the player. I do not think Not_Mafia is hardlurking here. He is lolcatting to emphasize that he is maintaining an anti-town meta, which frankly is closer to *active lurking* and is in fact scummy.
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Post Post #175 (isolation #31) » Sun Oct 28, 2018 6:51 pm

Post by DVa »

I mean, I would nightkill you as vigilante, so there is that.

So right now, in a game of 10 players, you're saying that *exclusively because of meta* no one should even consider lynching you *who has given basically no reads for things that have happened in this game* and Not_Mafia *someone who is exclusively lolcatting*

THIS is precisely why you do not give into this "oh no we can't policy lynch" bullshit because you are creating categorical exclusions that cut off 20% of the playerbase from suspicion.

You accuse me of tryharding but WHERE ARE YOUR READS? You are exclusively defending Not_Mafia for BULLSHIT REASONS and it is making me want to replace out because frankly it's not going to be fun if I have to put up with both you and not_mafia

I don't have the energy or desire to put up with this actually. I didn't join this game to policy lynch two back to back people. I like 7/9 of the players in this game but A50 + Not_Mafia apparently = a game not worth playing. If Not_mafia isn't going to try and you're going to white knight him like a tryhard scrub then this game is dead to me

Take your metagame bromance and get fucked

You can BACK THE FUCK DOWN AND GIVE A REAL READ OF NOT_MAFIA or I am replacing out in my next post
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Post Post #176 (isolation #32) » Sun Oct 28, 2018 6:54 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 174, Auro wrote:The policy non-lynch on Not_Mafia isn't based on Almost50's personal ability to read him, rather that it's worse to lynch Not_Mafia compared to a lurker because town!Not_Mafia surviving (to a point where he begins to actually play) is very beneficial to town.
yeah except this is categorically untrue

Not_Mafia's reads as town are mediocre at best and Almost50's ability to read Not_Mafia is also basically a complete lie

I know he thinks its true, but I have seen him lose games first hand over it

I don't want to say more and am probably going to just replaceout because I don't want to out my main

But basically everything A50 is saying both about A) Not_Mafia and b) His ability to read Not_Mafia is *complete horseshit*
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Post Post #179 (isolation #33) » Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:04 pm

Post by DVa »

OK, well then *ASK HIM TO SCUMHUNT*

In that game *you linked* the *only* correct read he gave was on Carcalilly. *every other read that was not based on a night_action was WRONG*

You can like his choice of *night actions* but that does not mean his reads are good. Nailing one scum out of three and being on every other mislynch wagon does not make him a reliable player or anywhere near above average.
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Post Post #181 (isolation #34) » Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:06 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 178, Almost50 wrote:I'm not scum, so I won't pretend to have figured it all out in 10 pages and less than 72 hours from the start (let alone less than SIX HOURS from me joining the game).
Sure, but stop *hard defending someone who isn't trying* when *you are not evaluating this game* but are instead *focusing on another game where you saw him make a good night action choice*

ALSO

IN THAT GAME YOU LINKED

He was WAY more obviously town

By post 80 he had *shown at least a small modicum of thought* and *reacted to people in the game*

He is doing neither of those things here.

So don't look at that game and say "he's not totally garbage as town" look at that game and ask *based on the thought and arguments he made that game, is there a reason to think he's town here*
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Post Post #182 (isolation #35) » Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:07 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 74, Not_Mafia wrote:
In post 71, implosion wrote:good morning friends and allies
Good morning VOTE: impoison
In post 76, Not_Mafia wrote:Actually

VOTE: Penguin Power
In post 89, Not_Mafia wrote:Guys don't get duped by Penguin's
#zanyantics
he is scum
This is lolcatting with a modicum of thought.

I'm not saying he's SUCH TOWN MUCH WOW

But he is giving 0% effort this game whereas in Diffusion of Power he was giving at least 5%
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Post Post #186 (isolation #36) » Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:19 pm

Post by DVa »

I am getting angry because A50's argument is making it incredibly difficult to maintain the integrity of my anonymity and he happened to point at the specific game I would point to to argue that *not_mafia's reads are generally crap* as evidence that he should be kept alive.

As someone who has been scum with scum!not_mafia, who has been scum against a town!not_mafia, and as someone who has been town against a scum!not_mafia, I am saying *lynching Not_Mafia this dayphase is a GREAT FUCKING IDEA*

If he has not towned up by now, he will never town up. He will never be easier to read. He will never give us associative tells. If he is town, he will never be nightkilled which means that if we mislynch town today, we bring the total number of active players playing the game seriously significantly down and increase his relative voting power significantly. When not_mafia is town and plays well, he starts showing interest in the game on DAY ONE. If he is not obviously town by the end of day one, he should be lynched.

He will *do things that actively make the town less interested in playing the game* and will help foster a sense of *apathy and disregard for rereading and evaluating the thread*. He will do these things *particularly as scum* and he is doing those things in this game.

I say that as someone who has extensive experience with Not_mafia and who, as town, would be disgusted to lose to the tactics that Not_mafia employs as scum.
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Post Post #187 (isolation #37) » Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:20 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 185, Almost50 wrote:He was on every lynch because N_M likes to be on lynch wagons.
This is a lie. He was on almost every wrong wagon on that game relatively early and never did his signature troll quickhammer.
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Post Post #190 (isolation #38) » Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:26 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 185, Almost50 wrote:if you claim to know me/N_M that well then you should be well aware I don't ever vote him anyway, so you trying to make it look like a scum team is the biggest load of horseshit one could come up with.
I'm not saying you're a scumteam certainly. I'm saying your defense of Not_mafia is complete horseshit and that dealing with your defense of him for meta reasons that I know personally to be complete rubbish is frustrating and makes me want to not play this game, or play with you, or play with him.

I don't want to go hunting for every game you two have ever played together. I want you to PUT YOUR META ASIDE FOR A DAMN MINUTE and just look at what he's doing this game and give a read based on THAT and not based on your CATEGORICAL REFUSAL TO SORT HIM ON DAY ONE.

SO YOU SAY YOU CAN READ HIM. Then read him. Read him and stand by that. Don't refuse to read him but say that we shouldn't lynch him because YOU PERSONALLY LIKE HIM OUT OF GAME. that is PURE METAGAMING and is TOTALLY AGAINST THE SPIRIT OF THE GAME
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Post Post #191 (isolation #39) » Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:30 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 189, ofrhz wrote:DVa, close this game for 24 hours and come back later. Please don’t replace out.
To be honest I almost never regret replacing out of a game when I have reached this level of anger. The *only* reason I am even still here is because I was really looking forward to playing with you, Auro, and Tictac again. But most of the time when I get this angry, even if I'm right, the win isn't worth the frustration.

But yeah I probably need to stop here for a while one way or the other.
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Post Post #193 (isolation #40) » Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:32 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 188, Almost50 wrote:Did he post 80 posts yet?
he says on post 188

I didn't say ISO 80

I said *post 80*

as in out of *everyone in the game posting, by post 80, early on day one, he was already reacting to players in a meaningful (for him) manner*

which he is not doing here
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Post Post #194 (isolation #41) » Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:34 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 192, Almost50 wrote:Penguin on D1, the first vote on Carac on D2, the 2nd vote on Gamma on D3, and the hammer vote on Spoogh on D4/ So, where is the lie here?
Maybe in carca being a mechanical night result, Penguin and Gamma both being town, and Spoogh being 100% caught scum in a cross claim with gamma?

100% of his votes based on *reads* are wrong, 100% of his votes based on *night actions* are correct, because he has scum confirmed by the mod
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Post Post #264 (isolation #42) » Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:41 am

Post by DVa »

In post 237, ofrhz wrote:....I feel like this is slightly towny for N_M tbh
While I see your PoV here, I don't think that going from a wagon that he failed to keep A50 on board for, and instead joining the leading wagon that is a counter-wagon to himself, is particularly towny. If N_M is scum, he knows A50 will commit to any counter-wagon other than himself due to the explicitly stated metagame reasons.

I will say that not continuing to tunnel me does show 1% thought, but he's far from the 5% thought I would expect from town!N_M

Anyway basically going to actively avoid this thread for today and probably tomorrow if I can help it. I have too much other irl shit to do to continue to be pissed at this thread all day and I need more content from several people anyway.
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Post Post #280 (isolation #43) » Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:02 pm

Post by DVa »

I agree that: {Brighteyedfish, Clemency, sashaddin} is the gamesolving sort.

I wouldn't go so far as to say there's likely two scum there, but I do think going forward with the game it would be beneficial if everyone could state their opinion of those three slots.

>Sashaddin seems tonally different than he is in his other games
>BEF is always lurky but this doesn't make him easy to sort or a strong townlean
>I personally like Clemency's posts but I don't think I could towncase him if scum pushed his mislynch based on the content he's produced so far

I'm not particularly excited about the tictac wagon and I'm hoping the replacement will be able to town up quickly so we can get the game back on track.
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Post Post #287 (isolation #44) » Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:36 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 283, Elsa Jay wrote:Or is he just Null to you?
She's town until further notice and I'm kinda assuming she dies to nightkill before 5way so I'm less concerned there rn.
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Post Post #288 (isolation #45) » Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:37 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 281, Not_Mafia wrote:I would
so why are you currently voting tictac slot?
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Post Post #289 (isolation #46) » Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:41 pm

Post by DVa »

Auro is actually still a question but I'm more interested in stated positions on those other three. I'm not sure how rapidly Auro adapted to this playerlist but he feels p.diff here from when I was scum with him in newbie queue. He's still on my radar but a lower priority sort rn.
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Post Post #291 (isolation #47) » Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:02 pm

Post by DVa »

Who is Fugu and who is What?

Also, who's on second?
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Post Post #293 (isolation #48) » Mon Oct 29, 2018 5:10 pm

Post by DVa »

OK well what do you dislike about BEF? Why is his push on tictac scummy and not him simply being wrong?
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Post Post #306 (isolation #49) » Mon Oct 29, 2018 7:48 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 299, Clemency wrote:it just looked like dva got pissed out of the blue idgi?

I play this game to have fun. Metagaming makes it not fun. When it becomes a common practice to form blocks of different 'clicks' of players, and it becomes more important who you're 'friends' with out of game, rather than your alignment in the game, that is the time to leave a community altogether. I joined this site *because I left* a community full of metagamers.

To be clear, "metagaming" is not the same as giving a "meta" read, they both have meta in the word but they are very different practices. Metagaming is letting your personal feelings for a player dictate how you treat them in the game to the exclusion of reasons or evidence. It is categorical bias, and it is exactly what A50 was doing here for N_M when he replaced in, as he explicitly said.

I have basically zero patience for metagaming is what this comes down to, so yes, I got very angry very quickly.

I didn't write this post to bring it up again or give a sign I want to talk about it, I will do my best to continue ignoring A50 until I have cooled on how I feel about his entry into this game.

Anyway, I am not actively opposed to BEF as a compromise wagon and I think the discussion of Clemency is useful so I'm going to go back to not talking about the A50 stuff.
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Post Post #309 (isolation #50) » Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:36 pm

Post by DVa »

BEF you wanna hit us with a bright eyed reads list?
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Post Post #312 (isolation #51) » Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:18 pm

Post by DVa »

re: clem -- was basically fine, not locktown great, but he's not overwhelmingly pinging me. I don't particularly want to lynch him atm

I could be talked into Sasha, but he wasn't one of N_M's scumreads, which would make him not a compromise wagon but a normal lynch. You're welcome to case him to the extent a case is possible with an iso of "loool" and "let's sheep N_M on a fake wagon without asking him why he's not voting someone who isn't in the game"

re: BEF, I want to hear ofrhz's thoughts here
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Post Post #320 (isolation #52) » Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:30 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 314, ofrhz wrote:His post or his slot in general
his alignment in this game, which you just answered.
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Post Post #321 (isolation #53) » Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:42 pm

Post by DVa »

townie
ofrhz / Elsa Jay
---
tictac -- I don't think she comes at me out of the gate like this as scum tbh, and the paranoia about a sasha/dva scumteam based on his rvs vote for me seemed like the type of tinfoil she does as scum. But my read here is only medium confidence and I'll be watching the replacement.
Clemency -- fine for now although I think pressure for content is good
Auro -- know he's pretty competent scum; if anything I would have expected him to start powerscumming more by now if he was scum so his 'huh, how do I figure this out' disposition here seems townie for the moment. but still on my radar

--- all below this point are viable lynches for me ---

BrightEyedFish -- I basically just don't see anything that strikes me as a towntell, but I'm open to ofhrz's position that he's offered above average thought here. not sure I'm convinced but I'll think about it.
Sashaddin -- tonally off from his other town games and disengaged
Not_Mafia -- not saying more on this today
Almost50 -- not saying more on this today

scummy
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Post Post #322 (isolation #54) » Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:44 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 321, DVa wrote:does as scum
*as town

zzz it's late
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Post Post #363 (isolation #55) » Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:05 am

Post by DVa »

In post 325, Sashaddin wrote:@DVa: You've mentioned twice that I'm "tonally" off from before, If you want to tell me why (after this game) I would appreciate it, because I can't see what I'm doing differently here.
I don't need to wait for post-game

This is you in 2038:
In post 19, Sashaddin wrote:VOTE: Doughboy
In post 26, Sashaddin wrote:
In post 22, Invisibility wrote:hmm i do like the golfball in your avatar
I like golf, a lot. :lol:

It's been 21 years and I still hate Sephiroth for killing Aerith (Aeris)

UNVOTE: Doughboy

VOTE: Sephiroth
In post 53, Sashaddin wrote:UNVOTE: Sephiroth
VOTE: AP
suspiciousness > evilness
this is you here:
In post 21, Sashaddin wrote:
In post 20, tictac wrote:Let's fastwagon the chewy bastard!
OOOOOh! A wagon! *Stomp*

VOTE: Trebor
In post 31, Sashaddin wrote:
In post 29, DrDolittle wrote:Mod notes: Not sure who Trebor is, so these votes are ignored.
I didn't know either, I just like jumping on a wagon! :lol:
In post 62, Sashaddin wrote:
In post 61, Auro wrote:Have you played with people from different time-zones before?
Don't you think this accusation is *way* too
early
to make
Not in my time zone!

Ba-doom-boom-tish!
like you're tonally different, I think that's objectively true. It doesn't make you scum, but in 2038 you seem to be taking rvs seriously while sorting, whereas here you seem to be just kinda having fun and joking around. Maybe you're just loosening up or feeling better about your play, but it means you don't read the same way you do as you do in your completed town.
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Post Post #366 (isolation #56) » Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:15 am

Post by DVa »

In post 354, Carmen wrote:I think it's pretty obvious that he's joking and I think it takes a specific kind of mindset to not notice that. Starting to scumread DVa here.
while 130 is a readlist with jokes, I do not agree that the reads list as a whole was a joke or that the specific reads of auro and clemency were jokes. A50 is fully capable of analyzing players he's unfamiliar with so having him so exclusively rely on meta here was jarring, even if I know meta is pretty important for his process. doesn't make him scum but I was trying to get him into the game and move him out of overrelying on meta if he is town which should make him easier to sort either way
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Post Post #375 (isolation #57) » Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:21 am

Post by DVa »

I didn't think his reads of ofhrz or BEF were jokes so I guess I didn't think the whole thing was a joke, I thought it was just first impressions based on his skim of RVS tbh, you could be right tho, I might have totally missed the point of it just being "know this person or not" and having no relation to reads despite him calling several people town
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Post Post #401 (isolation #58) » Tue Oct 30, 2018 8:02 pm

Post by DVa »

This game has become shockingly dull

VOTE: BrightEyedFish

Auro why don't you join me here and try it on for size
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Post Post #403 (isolation #59) » Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:09 pm

Post by DVa »

Who said anything about lynching BEF? I just want him wagoned.

We have 9 days and the game has flatlined, someone has to move somewhere and I want to see who will move where.
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Post Post #560 (isolation #60) » Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:56 am

Post by DVa »

UNVOTE:

No hammer until everyone has processes this show and had enough time to come up with some good memes
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Post Post #591 (isolation #61) » Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:01 am

Post by DVa »

When was the last time there was a real "day-anything" in a normal game.

I've looked through like 15 and found exactly 0 examples. Vengeful is the closest it gets.

It's not listed as explicitly normal in the guidelines, and I don't think a non-explicitly normal role would make it into this setup.

I mean, beyond BEF obviously being fake, I'm not even sure the role is even possible in this ruleset. I thought dayvigs were jokes.

Now, the question for me is whether BEF being obviously fake makes him scum or flailing VT. I almost want to say VT here? I'm not locked on that though, and in any case we have learned that he's willing to generate a hilarious amount of wifom about his role.

Also wondering whether we should clarify what exactly Elsa's role said since that is much more likely to actually be real
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Post Post #597 (isolation #62) » Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:22 am

Post by DVa »

In post 593, Clemency wrote:why are you trying to give him leeway?
I've read enough games to know that VTs losing their shit is pretty common

I'm not saying I'm 100% on him not being scum here, it's certainly possible, I'm just thinking through which is more likely. I mean we basically wagoned him as a reaction test (or I did at least), he could have claimed daycop as a counter-reaction test. VTs pretty commonly do something exaggerated to give their one big top final read. "I'm masons with X!" "I'm cop with a guilty on Y!" They're usually wrong, but this does kinda fit the MO of a flailing VT giving their one final read. I think the reason they do it that way is *because they're VT, they know they're a safe mislynch, so why not just go for it?*

Of course it's fake, and I don't think there's basically any chance there's a true mechanical 1v1 between him and Elsa.

idk I'll have to think about it some more. I'm not saying this is dramatically outside BEF's MO as scum either, I'm just saying I can kinda see him doing this as a VT too.
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Post Post #611 (isolation #63) » Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:54 am

Post by DVa »

I mostly want to hear people's reasoning for why he isn't VT.

If we're wrong here and we make the wagon too easy or have too little reasoning shown tomorrow will be more difficult.

I'm not hard fighting this lynch, my confidence on him being town is not high, but I do want to see reasoning.
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Post Post #616 (isolation #64) » Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:04 am

Post by DVa »

Why does it link to Plotinus's profile page?
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Post Post #621 (isolation #65) » Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:12 am

Post by DVa »

You are not authorised to read this forum.
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Post Post #635 (isolation #66) » Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:09 am

Post by DVa »

I am a multitasking masonizing double-doctor


if scum wants a chance to win they have to shoot me tonight
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Post Post #647 (isolation #67) » Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:23 am

Post by DVa »

VOTE: Sashaddin

convince me this isn't the best wagon today
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Post Post #649 (isolation #68) » Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:24 am

Post by DVa »

In post 643, Clemency wrote:sigh, why does this happen every game

i've got the pepsi, i'm in for the long haul

VOTE: Elsa Jay
In post 648, Clemency wrote:i wish you people gave out your reasoning more
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Post Post #652 (isolation #69) » Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:27 am

Post by DVa »

I've been townreading Elsa since page 2. Who is townreading Sashaddin right now?
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Post Post #660 (isolation #70) » Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:43 am

Post by DVa »

In post 552, Sashaddin wrote:OMGWTFBBQ!!!!111
Since I went to sleep: five pages, two claims and an ice cream truck.

After reading this, I think I recognize the flailing of BEF, I was his target in our last game and he turned out as scum.
I
intent to hammer BEF
, but I'll wait after I get done with my son's Halloween run tonight. I won't do it without a few veterans opinion though.

Is it common to see Day-something roles? This is the first I see.
who thinks this reads like a real reaction from Sashaddin?
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Post Post #675 (isolation #71) » Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:17 pm

Post by DVa »

BEF wasn't a TPR, he was a named utility modifier
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Post Post #677 (isolation #72) » Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:19 pm

Post by DVa »

Based on Auro's flip I'm thinking he was probably protective for town vs a scum gunsmith but I don't want to deep dive into setup spec since it tends to hurt more than help tbh, but there's a good chance *he thought* he was actually negative utility which is why he did such a derp claim. He was basically claiming miller.
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Post Post #678 (isolation #73) » Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:19 pm

Post by DVa »

Miller isn't a TPR, he was either a Miller for a town gunsmith or a false positive for a scum gunsmith, leaning the second but could be either
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Post Post #689 (isolation #74) » Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:33 pm

Post by DVa »

irt Auro -- he only had one shot; he wasn't widely scumread and had no reason to prove his night action on n1, and his hit % only goes up longer the game goes and more information he has to work with. I mean there's a thread in general of whether people should be modkilled for shooting n1 as vig lol
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Post Post #692 (isolation #75) » Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:37 pm

Post by DVa »

Did you literally not read the next post before typing that all up?

pedit: guess not lol
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Post Post #696 (isolation #76) » Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:44 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 694, Elsa Jay wrote:Your first post after we were together day 1 on day 2 is to throw me away.
guess he's 'letting you go'?

I'll see myself out
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Post Post #700 (isolation #77) » Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:47 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 698, Almost50 wrote:I'm alright voting Celemency for now, while I try to see what exactly EJ was saying in that post.
are you townreading Sashaddin?
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Post Post #713 (isolation #78) » Fri Nov 02, 2018 2:02 pm

Post by DVa »

mfw the word count of his iso just doubled
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Post Post #720 (isolation #79) » Fri Nov 02, 2018 7:45 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 719, Sashaddin wrote:This could mean Auro shot someone with his single bullet but got blocked by the Doctor, without producing any message of the fired shot.
That's way less likely than the chances that he didn't shoot. There is no reason at the moment to imagine there is a scum doctor. The likelihood that Auro didn't shoot is quite frankly very high; the chances that he shot and the target was saved by a scum doctor is so low as to be absurd frankly.
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Post Post #733 (isolation #80) » Sat Nov 03, 2018 8:04 am

Post by DVa »

We probably should do multi-hypo claiming. The risk of hypo-claiming is that it makes it easier for scum to sort the real investigative from the fake, which increases their hit%. The way to mitigate this somewhat is to give multiple results for multiple possible roles.

So we need everyone to give two-three investigative results to mitigate that, i.e. a neapolitan claim + gunsmith claim + vanilla cop

i.e.:

as a neapolitan, I have a result that Sashaddin is not vanilla

as a gunsmith, Not_Mafia does not have a gun

as a vanilla cop, Almost50 is vanilla

that way there may be doubt for the scum even if one result is obviously wrong to them. All we need is the confirmation of result upon a flip, we do not want to make it obvious to the mafia which tpr is real or which result is real if possible.

the risk here is that as more people die, they may be able to deduce the real investigative by the next dayphase anyway
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Post Post #738 (isolation #81) » Sat Nov 03, 2018 8:17 am

Post by DVa »

lol I've never played on MU

do you have a reason for why carmen is scum yet or are you just going to votecamp and keep relying on Almost50 to exhaust everyone that tries to make you play the game?
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Post Post #740 (isolation #82) » Sat Nov 03, 2018 8:29 am

Post by DVa »

A50 you're going to have to explain your read because my desire to prevent Not_Mafia from being alive in lylo is rising again.

I can't say he's lockscum but I don't really care what he is if he's totally unsortable.

If your towntell is him shitposting, I'm not even sorta convinced. If your towntell is him voting more than one person, I'm also not convinced. So if you have some secret towntell outside of those two behaviors, you can say so.
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Post Post #743 (isolation #83) » Sat Nov 03, 2018 9:26 am

Post by DVa »

Nope.
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Post Post #750 (isolation #84) » Sat Nov 03, 2018 10:20 am

Post by DVa »

In post 748, Elsa Jay wrote:What are the odds that mafia settle it for us and kill him instead?
Has Not_Mafia ever been nightkilled?
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Post Post #754 (isolation #85) » Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:42 pm

Post by DVa »

why are you so sure on a50 town btw? wouldn't a50 have been more engaged and analytical with the whole player list?

btw there's a recently completed game I can ask A50 about now
In post 1378, Almost50 wrote:Like, I'm confident that slot is Mafia, but I have a policy of not lynching N_M ever, so you're going to have to do it without me.
So I guess the circumstances here were pretty different, N_M had replaced ceejay who I guess you scumread, but here's what I don't get--why did you enter this game *hard defending N_M* as town when in another game you will just 'let town do its thing but not take part'? Like this has really bothering me, I couldn't ask you about this game tho since it was ongoing until recently, but I had glanced at it since it had both you and N_M. But I also didn't read the game closely and don't know why ceejay was being scumread offhand.

Why should I believe that you didn't provoke the 1v1 with me as a way to post a bunch without really committing to reads on other players, if in other circumstances you would simply let town push N_M if he was being widely scumread? Like it felt like you started from the position that N_M was town here and then looked for a tell to rationalize that choice, which doesn't really seem to be the way you treat him as a player in every game despite your explicit pro-N_M bias that you have stated in multiple games
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Post Post #759 (isolation #86) » Sat Nov 03, 2018 1:16 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 755, Almost50 wrote: N_M posted this as I entered the game:
In post 114, Not_Mafia wrote:Hey Almost, help me pls, they're picking on me
Again, not much to most anyone else, but it felt like and honest and genuine cry for help, and I it just hit me as more likely to come from town!him. That and "something else" that I would still rather not explicitly state if I ever want to have a way of reading him in the future.
I guess you can choose to believe that's more likely to come from town, but I saw it as just a joke acknowledgement that you were going to defend him regardless of alignment, which means that not only is he well aware of your express desire to defend him on a metagame level but you basically did exactly what he said, which makes the metagaming mutual at this point--which is one reason I got so pissed at you in d1 over this very issue. Like that interaction just tells me that you will both defend each other regardless of alignment, which makes both of you less interesting to engage with as a result.

The problem is you have such a low standard for N_M that any sort of towntell seems extremely easy to fake. I doubt there's a very deep gradient in difference between his scum play and town play. He's obviously not a total idiot, he just chooses to do glib shitposts instead of writing intelligible arguments
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Post Post #760 (isolation #87) » Sat Nov 03, 2018 1:18 pm

Post by DVa »

That aside, why is Clem scum again A50?
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Post Post #808 (isolation #88) » Sun Nov 04, 2018 7:53 am

Post by DVa »

I would have preferred the leading wagons be between Clem and Sashaddin tbh

Still think Tictac was a bit more likely to flip town based on her rvs push of me

You know it just occurred to me it's weird to think of "Clem" (the name) as anyone other than a young black girl in the midst of zombiegeddon
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Post Post #812 (isolation #89) » Sun Nov 04, 2018 5:32 pm

Post by DVa »

@mod prod Carmen plz

Carmen has been Proded.
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Post Post #820 (isolation #90) » Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:56 pm

Post by DVa »

I think Carmen might be siteflaking tho
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Post Post #824 (isolation #91) » Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:09 pm

Post by DVa »

How is Sashaddin not a threat as scum? I'd rather lynch low activity scum than siteflaking town...

and idk, still not really blown away by Clem's claim personally
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Post Post #826 (isolation #92) » Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:23 pm

Post by DVa »

Like, Carmen didn't give us much, and Tictac tiltreplaced out, but I still don't think Tictac tries to come at me out of the gate the way she did as scum.

Tictac slot just isn't scum I don't think

If you think there's scum in Sashaddin/ofhrz, then let's resolve that going into lylo, because I don't want to lose the game by being wrong on Sashaddin tomorrow after you mislynch Tictac slot.
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Post Post #828 (isolation #93) » Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:34 pm

Post by DVa »

like, it's hard to explain. I'd say, go look at Sashaddin's town and scum games, and tell me if in any of the town games he has posts going "loooool" and voting for meme wagons

like he's gone from "lost and confused" to "basically shitposting" and it's a really weird development for him if he's town
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Post Post #829 (isolation #94) » Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:36 pm

Post by DVa »

to be clear, I could also still do not_mafia today, but with Carmen siteflaked and a50 categorically opposed idk why I'd bother trying that direction
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Post Post #832 (isolation #95) » Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:03 pm

Post by DVa »

While you might not be a fan of ofhrz, I don't like a lot of the wagon that is on Tictac slot.

-->Not_Mafia, Clemency, Almost50

This is 3/4 people I am willing to lynch today, and they are all on the Tictac slot wagon. You might be in love with A50 slot, but I am not. I don't trust Not_Mafia's judgment even if he is town, and I don't like the way Clem claimed. There's no reason right now for me to think that the reason Tictac slot's wagon is in the lead is because one of the two scum is on that wagon as a counter-push to Sashaddin.

Not_Mafia did 'decide' on Carmen scum basically as soon as my push on Sashaddin began
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Post Post #834 (isolation #96) » Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:24 pm

Post by DVa »

No, I am looking at the people who I both townread and whose opinions I trust

ofrhz + DVa + Elsa Jay +Tictac Slot --> frankly, this is my townbloc. This is my team. Right now one person on my team is sheeping people for whom I neither trust their judgment or their alignment to lynch another person in my townbloc

So yeah, I'm fine waiting for a replacement for tictac slot, and right now I have 2/4 of the people in my townbloc voting for Sashaddin, so fmpov you are the one who is not being a team player
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Post Post #835 (isolation #97) » Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:25 pm

Post by DVa »

If you vote sashaddin right now it becomes the de facto leading wagon since not_mafia will vote wherever push comes to shove
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Post Post #841 (isolation #98) » Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:04 pm

Post by DVa »

OK, well then convince me that one out of Clemency or Not_Mafia is a better lynch today than you
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Post Post #848 (isolation #99) » Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:31 pm

Post by DVa »

we could also just lynch not_mafia

I mean I know we don't have the numbers without tictac slot

maybe we could talk not_mafia into hammering himself?
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Post Post #850 (isolation #100) » Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:40 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 812, DVa wrote:
@mod prod Carmen plz

Carmen has been Proded.
Carmen Oct 30, 08:23am Nov 02, 01:58pm
3 days 4 hours


@mod replace Carmen?
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Post Post #851 (isolation #101) » Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:44 pm

Post by DVa »

Elsa can you walk me through what you don't like about ofhrz?
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Post Post #854 (isolation #102) » Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:51 pm

Post by DVa »

I feel like I should have been able to solve this game by now

n_m is not interesting to sort and he feels like he's very much within his scum range atm, and I don't remotely trust him in lylo

sashaddin is all new? AtE which is also annoying to deal with

and Clemency is like probably scum but if we were wrong we would be doing a massive amount of work for scum

so idk, this game is a mess, I probably need to sleep on it again anyway
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Post Post #868 (isolation #103) » Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:07 am

Post by DVa »

In post 861, ofrhz wrote:If you're townreading tictac for drawing a weak associative including you that wasn't even pushed and was quickly dropped afterwards, that's weaksauce ngl
she came at me based on a meta-game read that hinged on nearly outing my main. Like, if she was scum, that is a... douchey way to open the game. I honestly don't think she would go for such a low blow unless she was town and actually believed it. It's the exact kind of tinfoiling she comes up with as town too. I mean maybe TicTac is meaner as scum than I imagine but I still don't see it

If you're going to try to push this through over me then at least don't be scrubs and actually wait for the replacement to claim.
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Post Post #872 (isolation #104) » Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:20 am

Post by DVa »

@A50
1) You are not as obvious town this game as you might think you are, if you are town
2) I'm not, at present, trying to lynch Clem, your accusation there is weird
3) Even if I had some reasons to townread you, I would be unwilling to lock you as town because of your pretty clear bias in regard to the N_M slot, which could easily cost us the game if he is scum. Even if you're town, I don't feel like you're being objective

pedit
@Elsa, their whole relation to one another is obnoxious. I think they're both making the other slot less sortable.
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Post Post #873 (isolation #105) » Tue Nov 06, 2018 7:24 am

Post by DVa »

In post 869, Elsa Jay wrote:I'll have to be the hammer vote tonight.
yeah there's no reason to rush this

Usually I'd say that losing momentum can be bad, but we have N_M just spamming "lynch her" so it's not like there's anything to be lost there. Sashaddin is totally lost and Clem has decided to start emulating N_M

I mean, you can hammer tonight if you'd prefer I just replace out at this point. I'm not really enjoying this game atm due to the A50+N_M dynamic.

This is what, the third time I've looked at this game and thought, "I should just replace out"

Like, I'm no longer in a feuding 1v1 with A50, but it's also just not fun sorting N_M, particularly when he is not obvious town, which he can be when he wants to be

but if this is a loss I'd also feel bad just pawning it off to someone else. I think that's the only reason I'm even here still
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Post Post #878 (isolation #106) » Tue Nov 06, 2018 8:01 am

Post by DVa »

In post 872, DVa wrote:Even if I had some reasons to townread you, I would be unwilling to lock you as town because of your pretty clear bias in regard to the N_M slot, which could easily cost us the game if he is scum. Even if you're town, I don't feel like you're being objective
Just reiterating that while you have drifted closer to town A50, I'm still not convinced in your ability to correctly sort N_M, and I don't think you're right about Tictac slot, so if town I feel like you're playing for the wrong team rn

but w/e, I'll stay open-minded. You think it's Carmen, fine. I'm not re-evaluating my read based on the current data so let the replacement scum it up then
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Post Post #881 (isolation #107) » Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:30 am

Post by DVa »

In post 879, Not_Mafia wrote:Save the mod the bother, lynch the Carmen slot
we can lynch this
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Post Post #883 (isolation #108) » Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:42 am

Post by DVa »

VOTE: Not_Mafia
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Post Post #886 (isolation #109) » Tue Nov 06, 2018 9:45 am

Post by DVa »

In post 884, Almost50 wrote:
In post 880, Elsa Jay wrote:Give me a legitimate incentive then.
Please hammer Carmen. If that's a scum slot DVa could very well be her partner. If it flips Town, DVa is confirmed Town. (see, saves someone a check)
why do you think you should be townread for posts like this that show only surface level thinking?
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Post Post #895 (isolation #110) » Tue Nov 06, 2018 10:46 am

Post by DVa »

In post 890, Almost50 wrote:I join game to PLAY games.. not to wait for someone to grace me with their presence if so they kindly will. If someone doesn't think they're up for a game they should not sign up for said game. Period.

Yeah but Carmen siteflaked altogether so it's unlikely this was an anticipated issue

we have

TEN

DAYS

why are you in such a big fucking hurry?
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Post Post #901 (isolation #111) » Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:13 am

Post by DVa »

Anyone who isn't voting N_M right now is claiming scum
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Post Post #903 (isolation #112) » Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:16 am

Post by DVa »

K prepare to get vigged
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Post Post #906 (isolation #113) » Tue Nov 06, 2018 11:18 am

Post by DVa »

Why are you assuming you will be alive tomorrow?
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Post Post #921 (isolation #114) » Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:00 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 918, Elsa Jay wrote:Sigh. 5 more minutes. Anyone here want to make any last words before we basically ignore this game for 2 days straight?
if you hammer without a claim you won't have to worry about returning to this game at all
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Post Post #924 (isolation #115) » Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:03 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 922, Clemency wrote:sigh
i had hopes for you, dva
you were gonna get potg
are you hard claiming scum or wtf is this?
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Post Post #925 (isolation #116) » Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:04 pm

Post by DVa »

I'm sorry that you've forced me to kill you Elsa, I hope we can be friends after
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Post Post #930 (isolation #117) » Tue Nov 06, 2018 12:07 pm

Post by DVa »

You should guard me

After my kill tonight I'm confirmed town, or the game will be over if Elsa flips green anyway
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Post Post #994 (isolation #118) » Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:23 pm

Post by DVa »

First things first.

Dayvig: Elsa Jay
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Post Post #995 (isolation #119) » Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:24 pm

Post by DVa »

Okay, now that that's done, I'm VT.
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Post Post #996 (isolation #120) » Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:24 pm

Post by DVa »

VOTE: Not_Mafia
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Post Post #999 (isolation #121) » Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:54 pm

Post by DVa »

I had to vig Elsa, I promised her I would.
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Post Post #1001 (isolation #122) » Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:56 pm

Post by DVa »

...sure, why not
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Post Post #1003 (isolation #123) » Thu Nov 08, 2018 7:58 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 591, DVa wrote:When was the last time there was a real "day-anything" in a normal game.

I've looked through like 15 and found exactly 0 examples. Vengeful is the closest it gets.

It's not listed as explicitly normal in the guidelines, and I don't think a non-explicitly normal role would make it into this setup.

I mean, beyond BEF obviously being fake, I'm not even sure the role is even possible in this ruleset. I thought dayvigs were jokes.
Maybe this will help you connect the dots here Sashaddin
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Post Post #1007 (isolation #124) » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:50 pm

Post by DVa »

did you already hardclaim N_M?
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Post Post #1008 (isolation #125) » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:51 pm

Post by DVa »

UNVOTE:
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Post Post #1009 (isolation #126) » Thu Nov 08, 2018 8:55 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 30, Elsa Jay wrote:I can get us ice cream for either occasion.
I guess since I didn't really have any time to process everything during whatever the fuck happened earlier, I do kinda want to ask why you would crumb neapolitan as a vt

also, can you explain A50's townread on you? do you know why he thought you were town elsa?
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Post Post #1011 (isolation #127) » Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:01 pm

Post by DVa »

So Elsa lynched Carmen despite me threatening to vig her, N_M? As scum?

I mean my claim was pretty obviously fake I guess, but, I mean why would you blow so much towncred on a rushed badhammer

>she asks Not_mafia

>....

okay nevermind
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Post Post #1013 (isolation #128) » Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:04 pm

Post by DVa »

Yeah

It's a good thing A50 left a detailed explanation of why he townread Elsa
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Post Post #1014 (isolation #129) » Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:05 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 987, Not_Mafia wrote:DVa is still the dullest player of all time
so why do I ever not lynch you here N_M?
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Post Post #1016 (isolation #130) » Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:20 pm

Post by DVa »

The problem is that even if that was true I don't really want to believe it

but I'll wait for Elsa to answer my question at least
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Post Post #1039 (isolation #131) » Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:22 am

Post by DVa »

Nm I didnt hammer you in this post

Does that change your read?
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Post Post #1041 (isolation #132) » Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:24 am

Post by DVa »

The game is not over therefore I am town

You may go back to casing elsa if you so wish
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Post Post #1045 (isolation #133) » Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:27 am

Post by DVa »

It is 100% between you and n_m

I am saving sashaddin's brain space and giving n_m the chance to try
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Post Post #1046 (isolation #134) » Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:30 am

Post by DVa »

I made it easy elsa

You now know it is n_m

So it is weird you aren't thanking me for confirming you're right
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Post Post #1048 (isolation #135) » Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:38 am

Post by DVa »

Yes what I already knew I now continue to know. Its not easier for me, this is still a gross 50/50 between someone I wanted to lynxh day 1 and the person who refused to let me lynch that troll day 1 or 2 thus creating this choice

Tbh I would have already lynched nm if the carmen lynch wasnt so fucking wolfy and you hadnt used a crumb in in the post that I was townreading you for in the first place
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Post Post #1049 (isolation #136) » Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:44 am

Post by DVa »

Sashaddin, the game is now locked between elsa and n_m. Any thoughts, concerns, or questions about elsa's play?
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Post Post #1053 (isolation #137) » Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:54 am

Post by DVa »

The ice cream one.

What I dont get is why you help get a fast replacement once and then wont even let a replacement claim the next time

Like we had so much time. I was townreading tictac and carmen site flaked. The case there was shitty and it prevented us from resolving sasha/ofhrz which apparently I needed to rethink since jason was playing around me

I know why a50 wanted to push thru carmen since he was tpr without a result there

I know nm wanted to push it thru because hes always wolfy

I do not know why you actually pushed it thru tho
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Post Post #1055 (isolation #138) » Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:57 am

Post by DVa »

I did not know "please" was in your vocabulary
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Post Post #1057 (isolation #139) » Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:09 am

Post by DVa »

Im just saying

Ofhrz flipped informed

We had a gunsmith

And you fake crumbed a role with a gun coming out of rvs

I have concerns and want to hear what sasha thinks
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Post Post #1060 (isolation #140) » Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:28 am

Post by DVa »

In post 1058, Elsa Jay wrote:Vanilla Cop has a gun?
See im kinda worried you already knew this

Vanilla is just a modifier on cop and cops have guns

So tinfoil, mafia was informed there was a gunsmith so you crumbed a weak tpr coming out of rvs to explain a gun in case you were investigated

So now I need to understand why a vt would fake crumb a role with a gun in rvs. I know you have said to bait a nightkill but damn thats quite a coincidence
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Post Post #1066 (isolation #141) » Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:41 am

Post by DVa »

Sasha, if I was scum, I would have hammered nm and the game would be over
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Post Post #1071 (isolation #142) » Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:45 am

Post by DVa »

I think I would much rather prefer to believe n m is scum and I would never live down the shame if I mislynched elsa over nm here

But tbh I dont really know lol

A50 kinda gave elsa a hard pass and I never had a chance to push his read there. And I was tring her for helping move out of rvs but now that post looks like it just needed to be long for her crumb to work

A50 explained his reasoning on why nm was town even if the reasoning there was shitty and he was willing to flip that read

It would also mean the only people that joined my overwatch group were scum which is a little tilting to think about

I do think that elsa has some posts that bother me rn
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Post Post #1072 (isolation #143) » Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:02 am

Post by DVa »

In post 1058, Elsa Jay wrote:Vanilla Cop has a gun?
like tbh I think the game is decided on whether you believe town Elsa actually has to ask this question Sasha

if you think Elsa really didn't know this then I'll vote N_M with you

if you think Elsa knew vanilla cop had a gun then I think we have to lynch her
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Post Post #1074 (isolation #144) » Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:06 am

Post by DVa »

Elsa has gone through newbie queue (on her old account), she's played in grand idea mafia, but I can't find a game on THIS account where she actually would have had to interact with a gunsmith. I cannot prove, objectively, that she is lying in that post about not knowing that interaction

but I got the impression A50 knew Elsa's main and tbh it seems like there's a decent chance she really knew how this interaction works if they played multiple games on a previous account

like: how does she have the prescience to *softcrumb a vanilla cop*, which is not a particularly common role outside of this site, but *not know that a cop has a gun to a gunsmith*

this really bothers me rn
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Post Post #1075 (isolation #145) » Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:15 am

Post by DVa »

In post 476, Elsa Jay wrote:Think of Balance, bro. A Daycop WITHOUT macho and you think there's a Doc in a 10p?
Elsa comments on setup spec balance but doesn't know gunsmith interactions?
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Post Post #1078 (isolation #146) » Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:18 am

Post by DVa »

I mean she's not going to self-hammer and I'm not voting until after lunch probably

well she could if she wants and she's scum, I wouldn't mind
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Post Post #1082 (isolation #147) » Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:37 am

Post by DVa »

In post 1080, Elsa Jay wrote:ice cream + snow Queen = funny claim, so I just went with it at random
if it was random, why were you thinking of cop claims in the first place?

this feels, a little bit, like you were looking at a list of roles that you could fakeclaim that would explain having a gun, and then decided on vanilla cop because that would be fun

but I think I'm just going to keep sitting on this choice for a while longer
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Post Post #1083 (isolation #148) » Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:22 pm

Post by DVa »

Looked through Elsa a bit closer, might keep digging deeper later tonight or tomorrow. Still looking for evidence he's familiar with gunsmith mechanics and haven't actually found any yet.

Elsa, a spoiler for you

Spoiler:
I'm just going to say it, I did mainhunt you here, I'm sorry I won't say it if you want to keep it quiet. I don't get the impression you wanted it to be a big secret given the obviousness of it? But can you tell me approximately how many games on your former main you would have crumbed tpr roles as vt or done similar actions? You don't have to say which games if you don't want, but an idea of how big of a sample size I'm hoping to find would really help me sort this.

If you are scum you could self-hammer if you wanted to save me the hunt :P


A note for myself I'll discuss with Sasha later
viewtopic.php?p=10238302#p10238302
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Post Post #1085 (isolation #149) » Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:56 pm

Post by DVa »

Were you also the Elsa in the banned hydra with Frozen Angel?
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Post Post #1087 (isolation #150) » Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:02 pm

Post by DVa »

Yeah I looked through those games too qq

Well you have only used the word "gun" 4 times and never in the context of a gunsmith, which is ASTOUNDING considering the sheer number of games you have played.

I guess I'm at the point now where I am still having a damn hard fucking time believing that you did not know how a gunsmith interacted with a cop, and I have also seen some of your scum games where you do go for some aggressive speedhammers as scum. You could definitely be scum here.

but I have also demonstrated that, in objective terms, the thing that A50 thought was a towntell for N_M is, in fact, not a towntell.

so.

rn, having spent an hour looking at your profile, I'm at a point of: fuck this game

@Sasha, putting aside everything that has been said by me and A50 in regard to meta. Ignore all the towntell bullshit. Who is the scum?

@Elsa, why can you not possibly be scum here?
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Post Post #1090 (isolation #151) » Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:09 pm

Post by DVa »

Alright, well why is N_M *definitely* scum here?
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Post Post #1091 (isolation #152) » Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:11 pm

Post by DVa »

True story I've now spent more time thinking about whether you really didn't know how a gunsmith interacted with a cop than the entire length of day 3
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Post Post #1093 (isolation #153) » Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:14 pm

Post by DVa »

Right, but what shocks me there is that you didn't know a gunsmith got guilties on cops

but I guess... it actually took me playing in a game with a gunsmith to learn about that interaction... so...
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Post Post #1095 (isolation #154) » Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:19 pm

Post by DVa »

True story, Not_Mafia has still not ever actually typed ofhrz's name in this game
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Post Post #1097 (isolation #155) » Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:23 pm

Post by DVa »

Yes, that is my concern.

I also looked through your scum games, and you actually make a point to interact with your buddies more than you do here.

Do you feel like that is an accurate representation of your scum meta, Elsa? You *make sure* you have early interactions with your scumbuddies?
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Post Post #1099 (isolation #156) » Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:52 pm

Post by DVa »

Alright, well if you want to case Not_Mafia based on ofhrz's interactions, I'm listening.
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Post Post #1101 (isolation #157) » Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:37 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 237, ofrhz wrote:
In post 208, Not_Mafia wrote:VOTE: tictac

DVa might be the dullest player of all time
....I feel like this is slightly towny for N_M tbh

pedit: He's nullscum, and I don't have any stronger scumreads, so yes, I'm fine with being on his wagon.
In post 234, ofrhz wrote:
In post 204, tictac wrote:VOTE: Not Mafia

Honestly, DVa arguing 4 this is the only reason, I didn't replace out already.

If she does, I'm following.

I'd prefer A50 policy actually, but this has a wagon already.
Wat

You gave no indication of any frustration with NM's play before this
In post 239, ofrhz wrote:
In post 238, Auro wrote:
In post 237, ofrhz wrote:I feel like this is slightly towny for N_M tbh
How? The attack at DVa, or his tictac vote? O.o
The vote

We both read DVa's AtE on the previous page, and ended up with the conclusion that she's probably town because of it. So the timing of N_M moving his vote off of DVa and onto a different wagon is a reasonable thought process to have and is therefore towny imo
In post 859, ofrhz wrote:
In post 814, Sashaddin wrote:Clemency has the higher chance of being scum imo. I think she's dodging a lot and didn't go in depth. I also doubt his claim of being a bodyguard.
Not_Mafia would be second. I got a feeling for this but I won't say why now.
I'm actually not a fan of Clemency, but I also think it's stupid to lynch an un-CC'd protective claim today
Im soulreading N_M as town
In post 861, ofrhz wrote:
In post 826, DVa wrote:Like, Carmen didn't give us much, and Tictac tiltreplaced out, but I still don't think Tictac tries to come at me out of the gate the way she did as scum.
If you're townreading tictac for drawing a weak associative including you that wasn't even pushed and was quickly dropped afterwards, that's weaksauce ngl

I'm still not sure I buy the tilt, considering tictac went from playing along with NM's RVS vote to someone who was frustrated enough with N_M's play to leave the game without any trajectory
One little thing is that ofhrz constantly switches between N_M, NM, and Not_mafia

She consistently argued for NM town, both giving a reason and "soulreading"

She never voted N_M

Is this how ofhrz treats her scumbuddy?

Did ofhrz open wolf this game?
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Post Post #1103 (isolation #158) » Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:42 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 441, ofrhz wrote:BEF can you explain your scumreads some more? I don’t see how Elsa’s or clemency’s reactions to your wagon were scummy
In post 496, ofrhz wrote:This has been fun but work calls

Elsa and Clem’s posts have been really town
I’m pretty sure BEF is scum flailing - I just finished playing with him as scumpartners and he likes to set up fake claims ahead of time and is pretty quick at coming up with hoaxes when he is caught

De facto intent but I’d like for everyone to check in first

Pedit: what the fuck
In post 654, ofrhz wrote:I don’t think elsa’s daycop cc was serious. I’m kind of wondering why she’s alive tho
In post 767, ofrhz wrote:
In post 669, Carmen wrote:
In post 654, ofrhz wrote:I don’t think elsa’s daycop cc was serious. I’m kind of wondering why she’s alive tho
In post 658, ofrhz wrote::facepalm: read the rest of her posts
In post 661, ofrhz wrote:VOTE: sasha
Explain this progression?
was pretty bad considering there was just someone who "claimed something improbable, got caught" and was town. Like, if scum knew that Elsa was fakeclaiming yesterday, they would also conceivably keep her alive as an easy mislynch, which was basically my thought here
Sasha then quoted something grossly out of context to try to make his point
There may also have been some unabashed sheeping involved in my vote on Sasha
In post 772, ofrhz wrote:
In post 655, Clemency wrote:trust me i'm having a complex internal dilemma on whether elsa underestimated the power of stupidity like me or whether he was stringing me along
i wanna at least see this wagon through
I didn't understand this. You were calling for BEF to be hammered before Elsa even cc'd as daycop. How was he stringing you along? Can you explain it to me like I'm a child
Spoiler:
In post 451, Clemency wrote:yeah no this feels like some next level bs
especially after trying to make it so cryptic
if you really are gonna try and make such a strong claim, why dance around the subject and come off belligerent? and you just happen to be the perfect role to 100% be sure of someone day 1 right after getting wagoned?
someone claim intent
In post 453, Clemency wrote:so you're trying to drive two lynches back to back right after getting wagoned up
In post 459, Clemency wrote:if you really are a daycop and this is how you've decided to lay out your claim, this is a half-step from gamethrowing
In post 461, Clemency wrote:the reason you're not hammered yet is the fact that half the players haven't seen your batshit spastic flailing yet
so the problem here of course is that ofhrz *was open wolfing*

there's no question

so the question isn't did ofhrz open wolf, it's *how does ofhrz open wolf, when she is open wolfing*

was she open wolfing with hard defenses of N_M
or with tinfoil theories about Elsa?
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Post Post #1106 (isolation #159) » Fri Nov 09, 2018 4:49 pm

Post by DVa »

In either scenario
Town had a strong investigative (a gunsmith that knows there's no scum doctor or traitor), with one negative utility (one confirmable vig and one unconfirmable vig/basically gunsmith miller), and a weak protective
Scum had an informed goon, and considering the value of the town's informed status, it probably was some good information that might *have increased the desire for fakeclaims* -- but we don't know this, and it is plausible that Elsa simply did random bullshit he always does that happened to make him look really shady after ofhrz's flip + a50's flip

The risk that N_M wins as scum here after being a douche to me the entire game is really holding me back, but I am trying my very best to be objective.

but what do we got:
on the prospect of N_M scum
N_M open wolfed as he always does
N_M sometimes changed his reads, which he's capable of doing as scum
N_M didn't do some of the memey bullshit he does as town

but, on the prospect of N_M town
N_M actually cased someone which is kinda uncommon for him as scum
N_M changed his reads *more frequently* than he does as scum
N_M seems a bit more engaged than he usually does as scum in recent months

with the thought I am trying not to focus on in interests of winning the game
N_M basically shittunneled people for the entire game which makes it hard to feel like he deserves to win, but that doesn't mean *we deserve to lose if he is town*

VS
on the prospect of elsa scum,
ofhrz's interactions with Elsa feel a little bit more like S+S to me
Elsa never really questioned my assertion that the informed nature of the scum was that they knew town had a gunsmith, instead focusing on whether his crumb wouldn't have been a guilty to a gunsmith (maybe tmi slip?)
The assertion he didn't know cop was a guilty to gunsmith is still hard to buy, although plausible since he has never played with a gunsmith
His top priority in exiting RVS was creating a crumb that would have happened to be a response to our gunsmith investigative, which would match the strategy of scum with an informed role
Elsa hard pocketed A50 after Clem had revealed his role as a weak protective and A50 basically confirmed he was real investigative by announcing his guilty on ofhrz

but, on the prospect of Elsa as town
Elsa lynched Carmen through my threat of a vig shot (as implausible as it was at that point, it's pretty likely he didn't believe me)
Elsa seemed more protown some of the time, but also risked lynching Carmen without a claim just because A50 was pressuring him to
Elsa's interactions with ofhrz's seems a little bit outside his normal play as scum


This is what Elsa claimed after A50 basically revealed he was a gunsmith with a guilty on ofhrz:
In post 758, Elsa Jay wrote:What makes you think I didnt put my real claim in my fake claim, Almost?
yikes

going to give you both some time to respond to these two scenarios and any new accusations I've mentioned
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Post Post #1107 (isolation #160) » Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:21 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 1106, DVa wrote:Elsa lynched Carmen through my threat of a vig shot (as implausible as it was at that point, it's pretty likely he didn't believe me)
but maybe the quicklynch on Carmen was a reaction to A50's guilty on ofhrz?

fuck I'm seeing a lot of Elsa scum here
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Post Post #1116 (isolation #161) » Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:05 am

Post by DVa »

Well, Elsa, I don't know what to say here. I really like you as a person and as a player. I would like us to be friends after this game if possible, but ultimately I have to vote for the person I think is more suspicious. Is there any part of my case that feels unfair? Too tinfoily? Is there some knife that can cut a gordian knot here?
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Post Post #1117 (isolation #162) » Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:09 am

Post by DVa »

After , I think it's highly probable the scum team knew A50 was the real gunsmith. That was A50's hypoclaim post.
In post 744, Almost50 wrote:as a Gunsmith, ofrhz HAS a gun

This means that your cop claim *after* and in response to the hypoclaim ordering seems really suspect. You had already pocketed A50 so your insistence on Clem being on A50 also seemed like an endgame ploy. Like I know you two were friends but you didn't question his soft at all?

I don't know how to reconcile some of your choices from a town POV.
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Post Post #1118 (isolation #163) » Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:13 am

Post by DVa »

In post 818, Elsa Jay wrote:Decided to do a quick activity check, and research points to scum apathy as a possibility here.
yikes

everything after the hypoclaim is just yikes

I don't know how to not lynch you here Elsa
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Post Post #1121 (isolation #164) » Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:03 am

Post by DVa »

Yeah, I know. Not_mafia can be scum here! This isn't outside his range. And so mislynching you would really piss me off. Help me out here. Please understand this is not an obvious choice
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Post Post #1122 (isolation #165) » Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:21 am

Post by DVa »

In post 1120, Elsa Jay wrote:I hypoclaimed a role that I picked for shits and giggles for a role I just thought only found mafia and vigilantes
also this is kinda a funny sentence
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Post Post #1125 (isolation #166) » Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:28 am

Post by DVa »

But BEF wasn't a TPR, he was obviously negative utility?
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Post Post #1126 (isolation #167) » Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:30 am

Post by DVa »

You thought there'd be a weak protective, a one-shot vig, and a negative utility as the only tprs in a 10p game? Why would you think there is no investigative if there's a "night-never" vigilante?
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Post Post #1127 (isolation #168) » Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:32 am

Post by DVa »

This is pissing me off because I really want to scumread Not_mafia more than you, I really want to just policy lynch him and blame A50 for fucking up day 1. This game has been really frustrating for me on a number of levels.

But this is another thing you've said that is just astonishing, I don't know how I believe you really thought that a night-never vig, a one-shot vig, and a crap protective was it for town
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Post Post #1128 (isolation #169) » Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:36 am

Post by DVa »

If ofhrz won with Not_Mafia where both just open wolfed in the laziest manner possible I will be really, really pissed.

But you just keep saying stuff that I cannot fathom you saying as town. I really like you, you seem like a great guy, but I don't see how you aren't scum here. If I'm wrong I really hope you'll forgive me.

VOTE: Elsa Jay

I don't even think the mod is on, please tell me I'm right.
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Post Post #1132 (isolation #170) » Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:44 am

Post by DVa »

Post-game Vig: Not_Mafia
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Post Post #1135 (isolation #171) » Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:59 am

Post by DVa »

OK I can break the act, I was actually scum with ofhrz and have spent this entire dayphase just trolling the fuck out of everyone
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Post Post #1144 (isolation #172) » Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:17 am

Post by DVa »

Can you guys release the scum PT because I want to read that shit rn

hot damn my townreads were off d1
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Post Post #1145 (isolation #173) » Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:18 am

Post by DVa »

only if ofhrz didn't out my main tho :P
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Post Post #1148 (isolation #174) » Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:21 am

Post by DVa »

<3 ofhrz ty

you played well ofhrz, you did night and day difference from your last scum game which I think is important
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Post Post #1152 (isolation #175) » Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:26 am

Post by DVa »

In post 1149, ofrhz wrote:Thanks for modding, DrDolittle!
Solid VCs, good response times, good modding.
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Post Post #1154 (isolation #176) » Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:31 am

Post by DVa »

Yeah I mean, that was pretty important, I never unvote if he votes me over you at the start of lylo.

I really was willing to not think about this game at all if he just voted me in response, or if you quickhammered obviously.
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Post Post #1162 (isolation #177) » Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:48 am

Post by DVa »

In post 956, Almost50 wrote: VOTE: DVa
Was fun for us to take turns nearly throwing the game, A50 :P

Now you do know that my tilt at your defense of N_M on d1 was not alignment based though!

You made this lylo EJ vs N_M 0.o

We won but that was cruel, man.
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Post Post #1165 (isolation #178) » Sat Nov 10, 2018 11:07 am

Post by DVa »

Post-game Vig: Almost50
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Post Post #1170 (isolation #179) » Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:26 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 146, Elsa Jay wrote:Like I thought Dva was the vigilante soft-claim? Soft-claims are Fricken weird.

I'm not gonna break the Radio silence unless Carmen posts but if she doesn't post in like 4 hours imma vote her as "scum apathy". You could use that against Carmen as well.
In post 199, Elsa Jay wrote:Yeah self hammer before Dva gets here and NotMaf says something.
ftr, these were things I noticed, I just didn't really focus on them explicitly. I didn't think arguing "the quickhammer was coordinated" was productive because there's too much wifom there, but it did increase my doubt of your towniness. And yeah, the Carmen speedlynch rocked my read of you. For you to be scummy you first have to be not obvtown, and both of these things did make you less obvtown

idk, I don't know if you'd prefer that I got you for 'things you'd do as town' but I kinda don't think you'd do either of these things as town?
In post 164, ofrhz wrote:Oh DVa the sole voice of reason.
sig material right here <3
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Post Post #1171 (isolation #180) » Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:26 pm

Post by DVa »

Well once again this was a fun game, except for all the parts that pissed me off ;)

GGs everyone!
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