micro 833: a coalition (D O N E)

[skitter30]

Hello all!

@shadd:

im regularly vla on fridays and saturdays

gotcha!

I think i onky know 4 of you

HEAL: myself

[skitter30]

I would be surprised if any of you knows me
Are we even supposed to heal ourselves hmm

i mean you don't have to but i know i'm town so
what do you mean by 'even supposed' to?

==

mini 2042 day one :thonking:

VOTE: dva

HEAL: nsg

Yeah that was strange

what was strange?
also i don't understand the 2042 reference

[skitter30]

got it; i totally missed that

[skitter30]

i assumed it counted since i could do it the last time this setup was ran

feel free to not answer this, but is english your first language?

[skitter30]

ah ok

your first post felt a little weird, like it was written a little strangely; almost a little forced somehow? but i realized from your next post that you might not be a native english speaker

so i'm not going to really consider weird tonal things from you as being much ai either way

[skitter30]

HEAL: Gamma Emerald
HEAL: The Dark Wanderer

the way that gamma emerald entered the game feels town to me. dont think that he, as wolf, enters the game expressing his relief at having rolled town

skitter30 is also possibly town as well for inquiring about yurikojasmine's potential language barrier as opposed to using it as an excuse to push her

i think dvas entrance was somewhat awkward but im still open to it being awkward-awkward as opposed to wolf-awkward

he just lost the last coalition game as scum, partially because he and his partner were both very passive in a game with some very strong townies; idk i'm not sure i see it as ai

meh i don't think i would pounce on that as scum there either

why do you think dva was awkward?

are you a new player?

==

ah ok

your first post felt a little weird, like it was written a little strangely; almost a little forced somehow? but i realized from your next post that you might not be a native english speaker

so i'm not going to really consider weird tonal things from you as being much ai either way

Do YoU NOrMALLY find PEoPlE sPeAkiNg IN sTRAnge Tones sCuMMy

VOTE: skitter30
For being racist

i mean i've literally had arguments with people about how random capitalization makes their posts seem weird so

this is a very broad question, and basically it depends on the context (ie what's going on in the game, have i played with the player before, what they normally sound like, etc)

like if a post sounds constructed i would find that sketchy because it sounds like they're trying to craft posts to achieve some sort of affect. if i then learned that english wasn't their first language i would find it less so since they may not realize they used a phrasing that sounds a little strange when trying to communicate

basically i don't inherently view it as scummy, but rather as something to poke at to learn more about the context

==

hi yuriko! do you have any thoughts about anyone?

why ask yuriko in particular?

[skitter30]

{TesXX, Yuriko, DVa}

elaborate?

[skitter30]

you might be town

[skitter30]

i should mention that in general i would expect scum not to feel the need to argue that the things that i was townreading him for were not alignment indicative but that's heavily personality dependent

i like to imagine that i would do this as scum too

==

dva are you an alt?

==

VOTE: Skitter
Be more normal ok thx <3

idk what this is a response to

HEAL: Musicjax
HEAL: Yuriko

why yuriko?
==

This is an incredibly wolfy post

?? why
i thought it was low-key townie from what i remember of him

==

Elaboration here would be cool.

i'd prefer to elaborate a little later

==

VOTE: TesXX
My vote in 21 was semi-serious with the intent of getting a better read on people, and your post responding to it was overall scummy, very narrative driven pushing of me

hoenstly when i first read it i thought it was an overactino until i realized it was probably an rvs-type vote

==

Skeptical of a gamma/wanderer team

why are you thinking of a gamma/wanderer team?

[skitter30]

newbie 1797 i'm pretty sure is the one game
this was with the old newbie setup and he was 1sbp

without that i prob would have scumread him; he's kinda lynchbait-y

from what i remember he's like very forthright and he doesn't really care how he comes off if that makes sense, or if it makes him looks scummy. he just says it anyways which is kinda what i'm getting from him here, with him going through like every post like that; he jsut says exactly what he thinks without overthinking it

the try-harding feels kinda townie to me

(writing this out i'm realizing that it's possible he felt that way in that game cuz he was 1sbp and not getting lynched, but i think it's more how he approaches the game than related to the role, idk)

[skitter30]

I'm Invisibility btw.

huh

==

HEAL: northsidegal
HEAL: Gamma Emerald
Btw anyone else notice TesXX has me in his coalition despite scumreading me?

i mean i'm pretty sure it was a meme/rvs coalition and that he hadn't gotten around to updating it yet
what did you think it meant?

kinda tending town on him actually

[skitter30]

why do you think dva was awkward?

are you a new player?

having a hard time following your thought process here skitter, why would thinking my first post was awkward make him new?

i wanted to know why he thought the post was awkward

i also noticed that his account was made recently so i was also wondering why if he's new to mafia.

the questions weren't particularly related to each other

==

{nsg}
{GE, TDW}
{Raya, Musicjax, skitter}
{TesXX, Yuriko, DVa}

obviously wrong on me but I'm inclined to townread a page2 readslist based on rvs personally

why is she obviously wrong on you?

==

I don't like how she asked northsidegal to elaborate her (northsidegal's) reads but refused to elaborate her (skitter's) own reads.

the reason for the read stems from a game that was ongoing yesterday that ended this morning that gamma and nsg were both still alive in so i didn't particularly want to elaborate just then since i figured the game would be ending soonish

basically i'm tending town on her for not active lurking and for actively engaging other people
i kinda want to see if how she is approaching the game lasts for a decent span of time before becoming confident in it tho since ime she can fake it for a while but pretty much in all games i've played with scum!her she ended up active lurking at best as the game progressed

==

i'm tending town on all of: tdw, tess, nsg, yuriko
no thoughts either way: gamma, raya
gut scum but idk how to explain why yet: dva, music

[skitter30]

HEAL: northsidegal
HEAL: Gamma Emerald
Btw anyone else notice TesXX has me in his coalition despite scumreading me?

VOTE: Gamma
Yo guys join me on this pretend wagon.

why?
this might be vizzy's scumgame actually
i don't claim to be super great at reading him or anything but as town he tries to contribute and like ... be helpful even while he shitposts and i've not really gotten that vibe from like any of his posts thus far

==

HEAL: northsidegal
HEAL: Gamma Emerald
Btw anyone else notice TesXX has me in his coalition despite scumreading me?

VOTE: Gamma
Yo guys join me on this pretend wagon.

Any reason for wanting this? Do you find Gamma suspicious?

Post is bleh. I get the "helo twonies pls voet thees waegon ok" vibes.

ok, and how does thath post differ from your 'yo guys join me on this pretend wagon'?
also why call it a 'pretend' wagon?

==

@mod replace me

i have lost all interest in mafia

bleh maybe he just feels weird because he isn't interested; idk

==

Now that I know he's invisibility tho I think this... might... be a little bit more in his towngame tho?

why do you think this resembled his towngame?

==

hello robot!

==

HEAL: the dark wanderer

==

HEAL: probs a robot

Invis was a little less active than I've seen him on what I think was one of his other alts, but he still seemed townie overall, and robot is... yeah

why healing robot?
i don't feel like they've done much ai at this point, although i am enjoying the gimmick alt

==

HEAL: nsg

==

126 talking about a scumread disappearing i like, i feel like it shows an actual weight put into her scumread on me - it's something that she actually cares about. scum in that position might just choose to aimlessly talk to other people but saying that i disappeared to me

shows that it's something she actually believes.

(the alternative interpretation is that it's just shading me for lurking, but that would be more of a specific meta-related thing as it relates to me. scum might do that if they were familiar with me but i don't think she is)

i kinda got a similar vibe from the following, in that she was doing a reaction test that she cared about and waited for my response before forming some sort of read; i felt like it was something she thought about and cared about and it shaped the way she interacted with the thread and other poeple; idk how well i explained that but it felt townie to me

Spoiler:

ah ok

your first post felt a little weird, like it was written a little strangely; almost a little forced somehow? but i realized from your next post that you might not be a native english speaker

so i'm not going to really consider weird tonal things from you as being much ai either way

Do YoU NOrMALLY find PEoPlE sPeAkiNg IN sTRAnge Tones sCuMMy

VOTE: skitter30
For being racist

:shrug: people don’t appreciate humour nowadays

@skitter: that question was genuine tho, would want some feedback from you

hi yuriko! do you have any thoughts about anyone?

Pretty null right now
Still waiting on skitter’s reply

Re:

skitter

and my language issue, my own stance being, being weird =/= being scum, but being defensive is. I think #29 was a decent response and is not defensive (what I would expect from scum: something along the line of "I didn't say you were scummy! But you're still weird!").

==

Robots regularly dream of fluffy animals. Contrary to popular belief, we are friends!

My first impressions of Yuriko were actually very poor. Though you do raise a good point.
I need to re-evaluate whether she is actually scum, or whether her reads just don't sit well with me.

you kinda sound like no lunch from the last iteration of this setup

==

but robot does seem pretty townie here so far and I kinda don't get the sense you are scumreading robot so...?

why do you think he's townie?

==

rn I don't need to sort everyone

rn, I need to answer one question

if we coalition out of:
DVa
Gamma Emerald
The Dark Wanderer
NorthsideGal
probs not robot

do we win this game before page 20?

because I think we do, even if there are some reads that probably need to be solidified. Right now my reads are based on tone, but frankly, I feel like tonal reads are how this game is won on d1

i do'nt like this coalition rn
the only people i townread in it to some degree are nsg and tdw
that's not to say that i scumread the other three rn either, but i definitely don't townread them

==

feel like he's not trying to pocket me and I feel like where our reads are different, I understand why our reads are different.

is that how you think scum!him would be approaching you here?

[skitter30]

town - sneks mafia in the mini theme queue - he was shitposting a lot but he also efforted and tried to sort people and read through things and post his thoughts and had actual content

scum - open 737(? i think?) - the worst's pick your poison x|y i was scum with him - he lurked throughout and utlimately got himself lynched for it

scum - gerrymandering - i was scum with him too and tbh i don't remember what he did as much that game but there was a lot of shitposting and very little content and he was kinda blatantly scummy towards the end but because of the unique mechanics he never got lynched even though he should've

like i said i don't remember him in gerrymandering as well and i'm thinking more of the sneks game and the open game
but when he's town i do get the vibe that he's *trying* and efforting
and none of his posts felt like that here

(i feel ike there might be another towngame with him but if there is i'm completely blanking atm)

i don't feel like they've done much ai at this point, although i am enjoying the gimmick alt

I guess you ask questions as you go through even if those questions have already been addressed later?

It kinda makes it hard to tell which questions are actually important to you or if you're just asking questions for the sake of asking questions tbh

i don't always go back and change/remove the questions if it was answered after i asked it

[skitter30]

why do you think this resembled his towngame?

Feel like I already mentioned this but the self-paranoia and skepticism about his own posting style, but if you can show he does that as scum too I'm interested.

Do you think robot is scummy so far?

idk if he does this as scum; this isn't something i particularly associate with his towngame (or scumgame) so it's not something i've ever really looked out far

i don't think robot has done really anything ai

[skitter30]

well it's not so much lurking as much as i didn't get the vibe that he cared or that he was trying
(and again like i said it's entirely possible that it's not ai and it stems from him not caring about mafia rn; idk; i don't really have a way of knowing that)

wrt 'who would you replace robot/vizzy with' - i'm not sure what this is referring to

[skitter30]

well i would replace like three people from your coalition, as i said earlier, not just them

but rn something like:
me
nsg
tdw
tess
yuriko

but i dont' really townread all of them strongly enough to add them yet, and i'm kinda wavering back and forth on if i feel strongly enough about tdw

[skitter30]

a) which posts of mine are you skeptical of?
b) are you even reading my posts? i very clearly explained what i liked about both of them

[skitter30]

like you're telling me that you're sketpical of some of my posts but your followup question indicates that you aren't actually reading them since i explained both already

[skitter30]

like you're telling me that you're sketpical of some of my posts but your followup question indicates that you aren't actually reading them since i explained both already

VOTE: Skitter

No, you have explained your read of NSG, your interactions with Tes and Yuriko are mostly questions or asking other people about them. You say you townread them but saying that you've clearly explained why, and then accusing me of not reading your posts because I haven't really seen much in the way of accusation, seems pretty scummy

right here:

i thought it was low-key townie from what i remember of him

newbie 1797 i'm pretty sure is the one game
this was with the old newbie setup and he was 1sbp

without that i prob would have scumread him; he's kinda lynchbait-y

from what i remember he's like very forthright and he doesn't really care how he comes off if that makes sense, or if it makes him looks scummy. he just says it anyways which is kinda what i'm getting from him here, with him going through like every post like that; he jsut says exactly what he thinks without overthinking it

the try-harding feels kinda townie to me

(writing this out i'm realizing that it's possible he felt that way in that game cuz he was 1sbp and not getting lynched, but i think it's more how he approaches the game than related to the role, idk)

i'm tending town on all of: tdw, tess, nsg, yuriko
no thoughts either way: gamma, raya
gut scum but idk how to explain why yet: dva, music

i kinda got a similar vibe from the following, in that she was doing a reaction test that she cared about and waited for my response before forming some sort of read; i felt like it was something she thought about and cared about and it shaped the way she interacted with the thread and other poeple; idk how well i explained that but it felt townie to me

again, which psots of mine do are you skeptical of?
i don't understand how you can tell me you're skeptical of my posts but ask me what i think of players when i've already explained it

[skitter30]

why do you like gamma?

[skitter30]

You accuse me of not seeing a strong explanation of your coalition when you said they were "kinda townie" in a way that was also possibly "lynchbait-y"?

You made it seem like there was a stronger towncase than that

i mean you asked me what i think about them
i had already said what i thought about them
i think it's kinda stranage of you to ask me what i think about them (implying you didn't see what i had already said) but also saying you dont' like my posts (implying that you're reading them)

if i strongly townread them i'd be healing them rn
i don't so i'm not

[skitter30]

you clearly haven't played with me before

[skitter30]

which psots of mine do are you skeptical of?

I'm skeptical of posts where you have a long wallpost that gives the impression of some thought or structure but then include questions that are answered already, it makes it seem like you're deliberately making really long posts without really investigating what's going on in the thread and staying very surface level with some of your most direct questions

i wallpost, especially if i'm coming back after being gone for a bit
i don't think i ever go back and edit out quetions tbh, even if it was addressed later
i idsagree that i'm not investigating what's going on in the thread
and sometimes i ask surface-level questions to prod things

i asked about gamma because i'm interested in hearing why robot likes gamma (who i'm null on) more than anybody else in that list (which i mostly townread except for maybe raya) so i'd like to hear why he has a strong read on there

[skitter30]

that raises an interesting question that i'd like to put out to everyone: who would be willing to support a coalition that didn't contain themselves in it?

possibly depending who was in it and how strongly i townread them
can't say for sure rn because i don't really townread anybody like that atm

[skitter30]

you clearly haven't played with me before

I wanna say I saw an argument fairly similar to this in the last game where a scum was trying to rationalize irrational choices

why do you like gamma?

yeah posts like this are why I'm skeptical of you

i wanna say that the last time i saw someone use this as a reason to scumread me they were scum so
(ruby red)

[skitter30]

i asked about gamma because i'm interested in hearing why robot likes gamma

you didn't pedit an @robot then?

I was the previous poster

you posted just before me
i didn't see your post beore i submitted it; it was directed to robot if that wasn't clear

[skitter30]

DVa is incredibly wolfy in so many different ways and you trying to sneak her through into the townblock makes me feel even more strongly that you're her wolf partner.

who was this addressed to? robot?

[skitter30]

you posted just before me
i didn't see your post beore i submitted it; it was directed to robot if that wasn't clear

I mean, you're probably telling the truth
but part of me almost is like, are you lying and you just didn't want to admit you didn't see my last response on this exact question

I believe you but it would have helped if you had done a pedit there, because it was not contextually obvious

i'm not entirely sure what you think i was lying about tbh

[skitter30]

gamma did you think tess's first post of heals/votes was serious?

[skitter30]

I thought it was initially
I still have a concern about how Tes wasn’t being mindful of it

i thought it was pretty obvious that it was a meme/rvs/not serious or whatever

you caling out tess for not removing you from his coalition while saying he thought you were sketchy is a little surface-level imo

like you found him in an inconsistency so you're pushing him for it but i'm not sure if this is actually scummy or means anything from him beyond 'not changing his rvs post'

[skitter30]

On the read I think his association read is not that good but I don’t see why it’s scummy

the whole thing we're doing is pressing people on the strength of their townreads. skitter scumcasing his predecessor is a good chance for him to directly address the accusations against him, and instead he just shades it.

idk, maybe you're right and he's a lot lazier than I thought he'd be given the aggressive tone of his earlier post. but I would have thought he'd see the skitter case as an opportunity, not a threat

I will say this, mostly for post-game:

I correctly townread Musicjax and thought his alignment was very obvious.
Replying to skitter's case is naught but self-serving, as I am aware of my slot's alignment for FACT while 6 other slots are not.

Therefore I did not bother responding, as there are better uses for my time.

i mean if you think music's alignment was obvious it might be a good idea to share why given that other people do not, and explained why they do not

[skitter30]

i'm not entirely sure why you're assuming this is going to end in an impasse or why this is wasting my time; it's entirely possible you'll show me something townie about vizzy that i missed

p-edit: i mean yes your towniness (or profession of towniness, whatever) is obvious to you but it's not obvious to me so i don't enitrely get your refusal here really, even on a theoretical level

[skitter30]

i dont' really think this makes me feel much different about vizzy but it makes me feel a little better about you

(yes, i'm aware that you're the same slot)

why?
this might be vizzy's scumgame actually
i don't claim to be super great at reading him or anything but as town he tries to contribute and like ... be helpful even while he shitposts and i've not really gotten that vibe from like any of his posts thus far

While we are on the subject.
Why did you bite the lynch bait here, skitter?

i agree that he can be lynchbait-y
i said that he felt different to a towngame of his where i read him right, which makes him feel kinda scummy to me
i also acknowledged that it's entirely possible that the difference stems from something not ai (ie he doesn't care about mafia rn)
i don't think i was 'biting the lynch bait here'

[skitter30]

town - sneks mafia in the mini theme queue - he was shitposting a lot but he also efforted and tried to sort people and read through things and post his thoughts and had actual content

scum - open 737(? i think?) - the worst's pick your poison x|y i was scum with him - he lurked throughout and utlimately got himself lynched for it

scum - gerrymandering - i was scum with him too and tbh i don't remember what he did as much that game but there was a lot of shitposting and very little content and he was kinda blatantly scummy towards the end but because of the unique mechanics he never got lynched even though he should've

like i said i don't remember him in gerrymandering as well and i'm thinking more of the sneks game and the open game
but when he's town i do get the vibe that he's *trying* and efforting
and none of his posts felt like that here

(i feel ike there might be another towngame with him but if there is i'm completely blanking atm)

sneks: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=77043
pick your poison: viewtopic.php?f=51&t=76766
gerrymandering: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=76501

i was scum with him in the latter two
in sneks i was tending town on him on like page2 so like i know i can sometiems read him correctly so the fact that i wasn't was worrying me

[skitter30]

i might have another game with town!him but if i do i'm blanking on it rn

[skitter30]

i mean i think i said like three times now i don't think i have another towngame with him so that's the one i'm comparing against

[skitter30]

no, i was not

[skitter30]

(Somebody help! How do you link posts again?? It's been so long )

[post] post number [/ post]

(without the space between the '/' and 'post' in the ending tag)

==

i see little purpose in voting people when i intend to win this game off of the coalition without needing to lynch anyone.

Saw this when looking back through the thread. Just wanted to mention that it's just as important to vote this game as it is to form a coalition. If we don't win with the coalition lynching can tell us a lot. Especially if we lynch scum. My main focus right now is to figure out who town is but it's still important to scumhunt.

very true but i'd prefer to settle the coalition before figuring out the lynch imo

HEAL: raya

(also i'm a she btw)

Besides that I only see quick questions but I never see follow ups. I haven't checked to see if there was actually much to follow up on in terms of the responses given but I find it surprising that she is mostly just asking questions but not actually responding to any answers.

i kinda disagree, i think she's been following through on several of her suspicions (asking where nsg was, waiting for me to answer her early question before she gave an opinion on me)
==

the fact that he made a token show of calling you scum then 180ed the read because of really sketchy reasons and now you're trying to argue that he should be in the coalition

is your entire read on him an associative read between him and dva? how do you read them independently?

==

but I very much dislike some parts of her content.

which parts do you not like?

==

can people talk about their gamma read?
i'm not very good at reading him and i kinda feel like my best guess tends to end up being 'gut/tone' which works sometimes and doesn't other times and i don't have a read on him either way rn

[skitter30]

i'm having trouble following your read on her in a holistic sense

it seems to me you're, on balance, listing a lot of reasons to like her; i'm not sure what you don't like about her rn

[skitter30]

i think that you have the sort of playstyle that falls right into my blindspot
in that i want to townread you for making sense and presenting your ideas articulately
which unfortunately are not inherently town traits even though i tend to read them that way

[skitter30]

holistically scummy side of null with a few posts/ trains-of-thought that i liked individually

[skitter30]

it just occurred to me who you may be
and if i'm right you're just town here i'm pretty sure

if i'm not than this post is irrelevant

[skitter30]

Not because I'm the easiest person to remove, because putting me down as town then trying to get in the coalition anyway is a lot more difficult than discrediting me.

i guess i'm just not following why he can't just townread you as scum and then try to get into one of the other four slots of the coalition; why does he bother discrediting you here at all?

==

Are the reason that I struggle with townreading TDW.
He presents as towny/"doing enough" but is arrogantly tunnelling his reads to a point that feels entirely unnatural.

i don't really feel like his tunneling is unnatural tbh

more than that, most of his posts just kinda bleed town imo

[skitter30]

@dva can you explain why you like gamma a bit more?

[skitter30]

also what don't you like about yuriko and tes?

[skitter30]

There's not a lot of content to work with on them and what's there isn't really impressive? I find it surprising how easily some people have thrown heals to Yuriko and Tes considering they don't seem to mention strong familiarity with their metas and there's not really enough content to see a town thought process yet. It is still relatively early game and considering the town sweep last time this game setup was run, I would be surprised if both scum were lurking again, but not being present doesn't make me townread them.

so you're basically saying they're poe reads for you rn?
what do you think of my reads on them?

==

As a matter of interest, skitter, my calculations suggest you are the person here who is most likely to identify the human on whom my artificial intelligence was based.

well if you're who i think you might be you're just town (but you might not be given how you reacted in this post? idk)

if not i dont' have a solid read on you really; i'm *slightly* tending town but i'm having trouble telling whether or not that's stemming from thinking you make sense and liking how you approached the vizzy case (which was made before you had your alignment so although i like the way you thought about vizzy's iso i'm not sure it's actually ai for you)

[skitter30]

@dva can you explain why you like gamma a bit more?

==

Approaching this game with an unusual posting style and gimmick means I'm unlikely to be townread.
Call it challenge mode if you will - I am supportive of a coalition which I'm not in. Because I understand there will be unconscious reservations in reading me as confidently as others.

this psot feels *incredibly* townie to me but idk why exactly
kinda like that you're aware that you may not be in the coalition because of the gimmick, and that you don't care, and that you're continuing with the gimmick anyways

==

I am fairly certain that skitter is town and I am going to be cutting my least certain townread from the coalition to make room for her.

where did the strong read on me come from?

[skitter30]

but if he's scum he wants to be in the coalition
and that post seems to say to me that he understands why he wouldn't be in it and isn't going to try to get in it; being kinda uncaring about getting in it feels townie to me

(or he has a partner who's super super townread)

[skitter30]

like, if you take it as a given that myself and yourself are both town and he refuses to allow us into the coalition, that means there's still only a 1/6 chance that his partner fails to make coalition.
I think that trying to discredit people who are playing towny and remove obvious coalition members is a far better scumtell in this setup than openly pushing for yourself to be in the coalition. (which most people will do)

i mean it's not like his vote in particular is needed to get someone into the coalition either way
in the last setup at least not caring about wanting to be in the coalition was a pretty strong towntell in general; gamma was scum there and he was the only person acting really weird about not being in it (ie when he got hurted out of it by one person despite being in iirc three other people's he OMGUS scumread the hurter for trying to remove him from being in the coalition despite being townread or something along those lines)

==

I do have two completed scum games on site -- Dolphins and Newbie 1893, so if you need a scum game for comparison those are available.

i actually skimmed both of these last week
i think you're out of the scumrange you exhibited in dolphins
i'm not sure if you're out of the scumrange you exhibited in the newbie so i felt like this excercise was kinda inconclusive for me

part of what's bothering me about you is that you're definitely active on site but i feel like your presence here is very ... idk the right word - lacking? show-up-occasionally-and-go-through-the-motions-y? like you're kinda here but i'm not super getting the vibe that you're *into* this game if that makes sense

it could be that you were busy with other games that have since finished so how you interact here will be different? idk

I'm not sure that means I want to reevaluate my townread of Gamma here, but I do think I need to review my notes and make sure my reasons for townreading him are solid.

are you good at reading him historically?

i can sometimes townread him right but i confuse apathy with scumminess with him - i'm finding him not really doing anything to be scummy in a general sense but i don't know if it's scummy for him in particular since i just finished a game with him where he was apathetic and got mislynched

i don't really know how to read him rn

[skitter30]

Skitter, I need to re-evaluate but I do not think I can heal her in good conscience. She is simply not towny.

do tell

[skitter30]

a) am i actively scummy to you atm or just exhibiting a 'very gaping absence of a townread'?

b)

Apologies for being unengaging. I do need to re-evaluate you more thoroughly and genuinely engage with you.

i'd appreciate this

c)

TesXX and Gamma need to contribute more. Both do sit above null for me. But the read will shake.

how are you reading gamma?

d) reads
nsg is town i'm pretty sure (it is in part based on how active and engaged she is and i get kinda paranoid when she doesn't post for a while)

tdw's posts just kinda bleed town to me; i don't super know how to explain that better

tending town on raya; i like her thought process and the way she's approaching the game

tess and yuriko are in roughly the same category - i liked their early content and so they're both slightly above null (i don't particularly feel comfortable healing other tho atm; i'm not *that* confident in the read)

after thinking about it again, i've come to the conclusion that you *probably* aren't the person that i was thinking of. i like that you aren't trying to get into the coalition. i don't find much of what you've posted besides that to be ai tbh. i think the best part of your iso is your vizzy case but i don't feel super good townreading you off of that since you formed that read before you joined the game and knew your alignment

i don't have a read on gamma and i've been trying to get people to explain theirs but i haven't had much luck

the dva read i just talked about a few posts up and is like the scummy side of null for me

e)

while I am beginning to think she may be town, I do not think that if I include her in the coalition I am capable of later having a more decisive read on her.

is this for the case where the coalition fails?

[skitter30]

You do not strike me as the type of player who wolfs heavily as a wolf. You have a lot of probing and potent content (I hope that these acronyms are not offensive to humans, and articulate my point!). This comes from town more often than it comes from scum, on principle. But I do not believe that you have produced any content which is difficult to produce as scum. There is also not a lot of content which forces towny avenues of conversation, or nuanced sorting conversations to develop. Your contributions feel as though you are floating; floating well, but floating nonetheless.

tbh i dont' think i'm out of my scumrange yet
that's kinda why i was a little surprised to see tdw just declare me town like that on the previous page because idk sometimes i towntell *hard* and i haven't gotten there yet imo

idk i feel like the game is kinda stagnant a bit with a lot of players not being super active so i'm kinda just prodding at things to see if anything will be that *spark* to make things happen

I believe that Gamma is town more often than scum.
This is not a strong read...and his continued absence is not assisting with it.

can you point so some posts of his that you liked when you have a chance?

[skitter30]

there were a few things in particular that i would have reacted differently to as scum
holistically not really tho

[skitter30]

HEAL: northsidegal
HEAL: Gamma Emerald
Btw anyone else notice TesXX has me in his coalition despite scumreading me?

this post stuck with me a lot and i still don't really like it

i thought it was pretty obvious that it was a meme/rvs/not serious or whatever

you caling out tess for not removing you from his coalition while saying he thought you were sketchy is a little surface-level imo

like you found him in an inconsistency so you're pushing him for it but i'm not sure if this is actually scummy or means anything from him beyond 'not changing his rvs post'

[skitter30]

idk
i don't like 78

most of his other posts i just don't see as being ai. like i can see where you're coming from as you go through his posts but like ... none of it is very strong ot me, or very convincing one way or the other if that makes sense

[skitter30]

@gamma who's scum?

[skitter30]

that's fair, sorry.

i just feel really underwhelmed by him and like i'm not getting why/where dva was townreading him

i think the way you approached going through his iso is +town tho

[skitter30]

He reads more like town who is having a good time and lacks sufficient stimuli, to me.

so idk i kinda feel like he's interacting with the social parts of the game (are you an eddie cane alt, the thign with dva) but i don't feel like he's trying to solve it in any way

[skitter30]

are you saying i called gamma scummy for it?

[skitter30]

computer user SKITTER30

Even if we are of opposing alignments, may we be friands?

yes, we can be friands :)

[skitter30]

yeah i thought you were saying that i was scumreading him for it and my whole point rn is that i find it null for him which is why i'm having a lot of trouble sorting him

like i don't like it but i don't know if it's scummy

[skitter30]

@gamma who's scum?

Idk
I’m incredibly out of it rn because I’m allocating a lot of time towards FE Heroes so I can get all the Tempest Trials rewards, plus general grinding.
I’ll work on reads tonight if I have the drive to, because I really don’t want to be a piece of shit after wanting this opportunity.

i get that you're busy with other things ... i just feel entirely underwhelmed by you this game when you are here

==

just caught up. call it confirmation bias as much as you like, but I still get scumreads from NSG and robot. (Nothing I saw changed my mind over these two and I don't get strong reads from the others)
I'll read everything again hopefully soon with a more refreshed mind.

it's low-key townie to me for yuriko to be scumreading nsg given how widely townread she is - i think scum approaches town!nsg in this gamestate by just healing her/townreading her given how prevalent the read is; it's easier to just conform to that than to try to undermine it imo

i would be interested if you could explain why you find nsg scummy tho

[skitter30]

oh i have another guess for you now

[skitter30]

I think that going into this game with a simplistic 'wolf are going to push for one or both to be included at all costs!' mindset doesn't apply unless we assume that both wolves are newer players and have little confidence in their abilities.

i mean, they just lose if one of them isn't in it; that's why i think at least one of them would be trying to get in

YurikoJasmine got a few lazy villa reads (including from me) for I'm not sure what exactly, she's done literally nothing and pings me at a few points and is independently a good candidate for wolf.

i'm very very weakly townreading her: the way she's approaching the game i think is +town (ie she wanted to see how her reaction test played out super early back; i don't think scum tries to undermine the townread on nsg either really)

it's not a strong read; def not strong enough to put into the coalition, and i wish she were more transparent about how she shares/forms her reads
and like she isn't present, but i'm not sure if any of those things are reasons to scumread her so much as indictive that i have trouble parsing her playstyle

honestly, this entire read is based on day1 pre-flip associatives, and i'm a little hesitant to use associative reads before there are flips since, well, it's entirely impossible to know if either part of the theory has merit at that stage; i feel like you're maybe weighing the associatives a little too strongly at this time

==

TDW's playstyle is frustrating me as well. There are a number of things I am urged to call scummy because I do not like them, but which do not explicitly come from members of the mafia.

honestly he feels super super townie to me

==

wait, i actually agree entirely with what skitter said about this post.

i feel like i've seen it before where scum dropped some kind of posting gimmick like that

- i feel like in this situation, if you had rolled scum you might not have even entered the way you did or may not have kept it up. that read somewhat relies on your scumbuddy not already being widely townread, but it's still a point towards you being town.

well that or use the gimmick to make thier thoughts inscrutable and difficult to parse
he isn't doing that tho; he's trying very hard to make himself as readable as possible within the confines of the gimmick which is why i'm finding it townie

==

man i really wish i wasn't scumreading skitter this game

i'm around now, you wanna talk about it?

[skitter30]

I feel like it's a really easy trap to just say oh Robot has made the most posts and effort so he's town and I see everyone struggling to read him but I feel like if you put your desire to townread the WIM aside his actual content has very little reason to be townread.

i'm not townreading him for post count or effort
i do think it's fair to say that part of the reason i want to townread him is because of WIM
and like idk i do read not wanting to be in the coalition as townie; the only way it isn't to me is if his partner is widely townread rn (which, going by the last vc, i think would point to one of nsg or you or maybe raya being his partner in this universe, but you and nsg are really townie and i don't really see anything in particular making robot/raya likely)

And Skitter30, was Yuriko's oh my gosh northsidegal is so racist!!! thing really a reaction test in your eyes because I don't see it that way.

see the spoiler in 194 to see what i mean wrt the reaction test since i think i said it like six times already

that + scumreading nsg I also find lightly townie

so like there's a few things in particular that i like but holistically her absence/lack of transparency wrt how she forms her reads makes it hard for me to like actually townread her

==

As for my reads, I posted what I thought of page 1 so you can go there to see where I’m about at rn

.... i mean that's page 1; a lot of things happened since then; i feel like telling people to look at your page1 reads in order to see what you think about the game is a little ???? and ... idk evasive might not be the right word but like your page1 reads aren't really helpful rn or game-solve-y

idk it feels a little wrong to me that you're offering that up as your current thoughts on the game when the game has developed a great deal since then

what do you think about tess?

==

I suppose Gamma is my foremost consideration.
Maybe Yuriko.

My reads are just stale.

the whole gamestate feels very stale
in this setup that points to me that scum are either happy with the coalition (ie one of them are in it) or that they aren't in a position to do anything about it (ie sometimes lurker scum is just the right answer)

i don't know how to diffrentiate between these rn

[skitter30]

wants it more (kinda like how driven they are to win the game)

[skitter30]

Ok so I’m trying something based on a past re-reading method I did, where I scanned every post and formed an opinion on each one. Before I just did it for suspects because the game was farther along, but here I’m doing it for everyone.

My current thoughts as of reading page 1:
Yuriko kinda towny
TDW towny
Skitter back and forth
NSG kinda scummy
Null on all others

link to where you did this before?

[skitter30]

ok when you have a chance can you talk to me about why you think doing this will help you here?

[skitter30]

ok i have regular v/la on weekends and i posted more recently than literally half of the other players

==

ok when you have a chance can you talk to me about why you think doing this will help you here?

Posting during a bathroom break on the road
I think it will give me a very solid foundation to play the rest of the game on.

ok i guess what i'm getting at is why you're treating this game differently from like every other game i've seen you play?

[skitter30]

VOTE: dva

[skitter30]

you're being kinda weird but i don't think it's scummy-weird

[skitter30]

ok you're being weird in the context of games i've played with you before; i don't think i've ever seen you approach a game this way
and the apathy is what i mislynched you for in stack-the-deck and kinda what you got mislynched for in presdients
i don't really gut-townread you here at all (which is basically how i read you in presidents and a little bit in taz), which i'm finding slightly worrying

[skitter30]

i mean i'm not townreading him; i have in the past gut-townread him when he was town in 2/3 games i've played with town!him (i don't remember if i did in the third offhand). in the one scumgame i played with him (the last coalition) i liked one post and that's it from him and never really formed a read on him otherwise

i think he's acting strangely in comparison to games i've played with him

i don't know if 'going back to intensely analyzie all previous pages' is inhrently a reason to scumread him, especially in the current gamestate when not much is happening. i do feel like it's giving him a little bit of an excuse not to interact with the present, but then, since nothing is happening in the present i'm not sure if this is actually a problem

idk that's as well as i can explain how i'm reading him

i'm not explicitly scumreading him but i'm not really townreading him either

[skitter30]

hi nm

since there's people here who might not know him, don't l1 anyone unless you want the day to end

and in this setup don't do the equivalent of l1'ing a coalition either

[skitter30]

ok, about half of our time is up
i want to try to settle on a coalition so that if it fails, we can have time to figure out a lynch

me
tdw
nsg ---> want here and above to be in the coalition (willing to compromise on me tho)
raya (placement may change upon replacement)
yuriko
robot ----> willing to compromise on these three
nm
gamma emerald
dva

not mafia i'm a little unsure about where to place
i was lightly townreading tess
but i can't read not_mafia at all; my read on him is pretty much a crapshoot most of the time; i tend to have more luck reading wagonomics around him than him himself
i don't really want him in it i think because if it fails and he's town he's the designated mislynch

i'm not particularly scumreading gamma or dva but i'm not townreading either of them either; i'd prefer to put in people that i do have some sort of townread on

[skitter30]

y r u voting with me?

[skitter30]

/sigh

i'm finding the mass-lurking/empty-slots to be kinda frustrating

[skitter30]

@nsg can you talk to me about why you're scumreading me?

[skitter30]

i guess i'm just "not townreading you" and towards the start of the game i felt like you were playing differently than you were in the previous coalition game and given that i haven't seen anything that really said "huh, this must be town!skitter here" i'm sort of inclined to just follow my initial instinct rather than just resetting given time arbitrarily

idk

i can understand why people don't think i've been townie

but it's mildly frustrating to have people say they're scumreading me not because they actually think i'm scummy but because they're not townreading me; i'm not entirely sure what i can do to change that, especially in a gamestate where about half the game isn't posting

[skitter30]

I feel like it's really hard for me to be 'chatty' as scum

, unless I'm talking to my partner. I tend to want to over-think posts most of the time and have a hard time being natural.

^^^ i kinda think that this is what you've been doing this game

[skitter30]

^^^ i kinda think that this is what you've been doing this game

not sure I follow, so nsg doesn't townread me because I'm too chatty, and you don't townread me because I'm not chatty enough?

your posts here lack ... idk the right word - spirit? motivation? interest?
they feel like you're going through the motions, like you're posting here because you have to

they dont' feel like you enjoy posting itg
i don't think you're really chatting
i don't think you really feel natural

[skitter30]

Btw robot are you Titus? She’s like the only person I see posting as much as you have

also i'm pretty sure robot isn't in a north-american timezone

[skitter30]

This game has been boring, you're right though, so I guess that does fuck up my normal play

Yuriko has fewer posts than Music even tho Music replaced out 8 days ago
Gamma hasn't really been here (and he's why I even joined this game)
Tes/N_M have given no opportunity for me to decide if Tes's early posts were enough to solidify to a scumread
I've been struggling to decide if you're scum or if your posting style is nuking my read
and in the mean time I had two very dramatic lylos to deal with (witches ball and the mini normal)

so yeah.. tbh I've thought about replacing out of this game since it just hasn't really felt like it's come together yet.

i mean yeah a lot of people are lurking, which is what i've been complaining about for a few days irl now
but your posts haven't really felt *into it* since the game started to me
once you've said those lylos ended i thougth you might be more active here but i'm not really seeing that, but you are active elsewhere

like yuriko isn't posting elsewhere onsite, nor has tes, and not_mafia is impossible for me to read
i've been on gamma's case about his posting for like days

what about my posting style is making it hard for you to read me?

[skitter30]

@northsidegal I have heard that your favorite month is december. I would be interested in finishing this game before that month and you showing up to thread and helping to conclude this game would help with that.

why is this townie to you?

[skitter30]

@northsidegal I have heard that your favorite month is december. I would be interested in finishing this game before that month and you showing up to thread and helping to conclude this game would help with that.

why is this townie to you?

like i said, listing out the reasons makes it obvious that it could easily come from scum who want to pocket me, but here they are:

1) tdw knows something about my that i don't think i've ever said publicly
2) he felt the need to say this
3) he asked me specifically to stop lurking and do something to help solve the game

the naive approach is to think "why would scum care about getting me to play the game? it's better for them the more i lurk and ignore this game, so it seems like TDW must be someone who knows me, who believes in my ability and who actually wants my help in solving the game."

i mean when i read it i thought it was nai, maybe a little buddying-y but he'd been townreading you the whole time so it felt kinda in-line with how he'd been approaching you the whole game

[skitter30]

what do you want to discuss?

why I should heal you

lol it's hard when you keep saying you don't want me in your coalition, but that's kinda why I want you in my coalition.

I really feel like you aren't trying to pocket me but I also feel like your skepticism feels natural from a town POV.

Like I feel pretty good about your slot, and I liked your self-meta earlier. But if you just refuse to be in my coalition I'm at a loss of what to do now

i mean it's not like she can stop you from healing her
i'm kinda having trouble with the bolded - why are you bringing up pocketing here?

[skitter30]

i thought the december thing was a meme that i didn't know about

[skitter30]

why are you bringing up pocketing here?

in both of my last two completed games, the scum win condition was pocketing me. (they lost both times but it felt closer than it should have both times)

do you think that's the scum wincon for this game?

(ie are you saying that you think that scum would be trying to pocket you here and that nsg is townie for not doing so?)

[skitter30]

dva what do you think about the way gamma is approaching this game (ie the intensive reading of every post etc)?

[skitter30]

do you think that's the scum wincon for this game?

(ie are you saying that you think that scum would be trying to pocket you here and that nsg is townie for not doing so?)

I thought so for most of this game, now I'm not sure anymore, I'm doubting a lot of stuff rn

It is possible that one of the scum is trying to simply discredit me

It would be presumptuous to assume one tries to pocket, the other tries to shade, but it's possible. That would seem to fit the scum meta strategy some others were discussing earlier

pocket you in particular or pocket townies in general?

[skitter30]

dva what do you think about the way gamma is approaching this game (ie the intensive reading of every post etc)?

I think Gamma flips a coin on whether he does that or not, the choice of reading posts is NAI, what matters is the content and thought it generates. He has skipped hundreds of pages as town and done detailed reactions as scum, and he has done detailed analysis as town and basically afk'd as scum. The most important thing in sorting Gamma is feeling like his reactions are genuine.

i kinda feel like he's using it as a way to kinda like avoid interacting seriously in real time

[skitter30]

Pocketing townies in general seems like the basic definition of scum play, but I would say scum target me in particular because I tend to have presence. Or at least that's what 2040 made me feel.

you're kinda assuming that scum knows you?
like as far as i can tell the only people you have history with itg are gamma and nsg (maybe not_mafia too; idk); scum who don't know you wouldn't have much reason to try to pocket you because you have presence; they wouldn't necessarily know that

like i guess it kinda makes sense that you think scum!nsg might try to pocket you and that you think it's kinda townie of her to not be doing that but it feels a little weird to me that you think scum in general would specifically try to pocket you here?

i guess i'm not entirely following why you think scum would make a point of pocketing you in particular in a pl that you're mostly unfamiliar with (unless i'm missing something and you're familiar with more people than gamma and nsg; i don't know you; tdw seems new (or an alt), same with robot; tess and raya haven't played for months, and yuriko for years))

[skitter30]

scum try to hard pocket me based on the early game phase, not because of existing meta is what I'm saying here.

ok, i get what you're trying to say
and do you think scum would be trying to pocket you in this game based on your early play?

[skitter30]

tfw people think you have a competent scumgame

[skitter30]

and do you think scum would be trying to pocket you in this game based on your early play?

don't know anymore tbh

do you think scum are trying to pocket you?

i think the way you've talked about the pocketing kinda makes sense from the perspective of the two towngames you've been mentioning

idk
i tend to get townread pretty easily by scum; i'm pretty rarely pushed for a mislynch because i'm very hard to mislynch; idk if they explicitly try to pocket me so much as just blasely townreading me

idk if i've ever really thought about the game from the outset as: scum are likely to try to pocket me here so i'll be wary of that; that's kinda why i was probing the pocketing thing because i don't think i've realy approach a game as town that way

[skitter30]

tfw people think you have a competent scumgame

i can imagine it gets frustrating.

honestly it's kinda a new thing after the two scumgames over the summer
i don't think my scumgame is *that* good either but whatever

[skitter30]

UNVOTE:

for now
i'm feeling a little better about you
not enough to want you in my coalition but the way you're approaching the game holistically makes a bit more sense to me now

i also partially voted you to see if anyone would have any sort of reaction to it (ie i was trying to see if that would spark an interesting discussion) but it didn't so yeah

[skitter30]

yes, thank you, that post was awful

[skitter30]

Btw why do you think my current technique is possibly being used to avoid real time interactions when I’m clearly not?

because whenever i ask you about reads you tell me that you're going back to the beginning of the game to intensely analyze it and won't talk about in-real-time reads

[skitter30]

dva what do you think about the way gamma is approaching this game (ie the intensive reading of every post etc)?

I think Gamma flips a coin on whether he does that or not, the choice of reading posts is NAI, what matters is the content and thought it generates. He has skipped hundreds of pages as town and done detailed reactions as scum, and he has done detailed analysis as town and basically afk'd as scum. The most important thing in sorting Gamma is feeling like his reactions are genuine.

i kinda feel like he's using it as a way to kinda like avoid interacting seriously in real time

I believe it is easy enough to not interact seriously in real time without that kind of intensive reading post.
Also think it may be slightly scum indicative though. Any other thoughts on it?

not really
dva seems ot know him pretty well and doesn't seem to think it's ai so idk

[skitter30]

Btw why do you think my current technique is possibly being used to avoid real time interactions when I’m clearly not?

because whenever i ask you about reads you tell me that you're going back to the beginning of the game to intensely analyze it and won't talk about in-real-time reads

Because real time reads would undermine what I’m doing. I’m trying to form a good basis from scratch, using preconceptions messes with that.
God I feel like Kyoko now.

i mean i get that but at the right you're going you'll hit the present ... in like two weeks or something

[skitter30]

this doens't feel like a game where we'll get the coalition right

[skitter30]

It feels to me as though she is getting half way through completing thoughts and then abandoning them, or losing her grip on where to take them next.

i mean when the people i'm talking to disappear for multiple days on end it's kinda hard to hold a conversation with them, y'know?

[skitter30]

HEAL: northsidegal
HEAL: Gamma Emerald
Btw anyone else notice TesXX has me in his coalition despite scumreading me?

i thought this was an awful post given that his initial coalition was more of a joke than anything
I don't really have anything else to say regarding the other posts.

yes, thank you, that post was awful

This is a classic.
This post is objectively bad.
Does it come from town or scum? You two are critiquing quality of posts

i talked about why i didn't like 78 at least three different times now and nobody noticed and/or really commented on it except like you, and i'm appreciating that someone else finally agrees with me / sees that it's a bad post

[skitter30]

It feels to me as though she is getting half way through completing thoughts and then abandoning them, or losing her grip on where to take them next.

i mean when the people i'm talking to disappear for multiple days on end it's kinda hard to hold a conversation with them, y'know?

Sure, but I feel as though your capability for this is lower than usual as town here.

i don't think i've ever played a game before where literally half the pl wasn't posting

[skitter30]

(that's straight up a rewording of stuff that skitter has already said. I agree that it bothers me about Gamma but it doesn't make me think he's scum necessarily as much as I just want it to stop.)

Pardon me cutting in but I believe skitter has a very similar scumgame, to your play earlier.

She sits to the side relatively safely and interjects with questions which are structured to present as critical. Often they do not actually accomplish as much as they appear to, but parsing that on day one is particularly difficult.

As town she is quite a lot more well-honed; she is focused on sorting and is generally extremely finely tuned. There's a lucidity which I am yearning to see from her here which is not present. A lot of her questions look like "questions people ask to look like town", before "questions that sort people assertively".

It feels to me as though she is getting half way through completing thoughts and then abandoning them, or losing her grip on where to take them next.

Currently busy running other programs so I'm not going to be able to go into this in too much detail. I just hope it assists you in understanding why my sources have lead me to hesitate with townreading skitter.

i think i know who you are again
(i've only seen like one person describe me as 'well-honed' )

[skitter30]

She sits to the side relatively safely and interjects with questions which are structured to present as critical. Often they do not actually accomplish as much as they appear to, but parsing that on day one is particularly difficult.

a lot of my questions this game had the intent of making people just like ... post at all
like yeah i was looknig for things to post about in order to try to get other people to post

[skitter30]

this doens't feel like a game where we'll get the coalition right

Quoted for truth.

Sadly this is the kind of read I anticipate scum!skitter is very capable of faking.

oh yeah i can def fake that

[skitter30]

i talked about why i didn't like 78 at least three different times now and nobody noticed and/or really commented on it except like you, and i'm appreciating that someone else finally agrees with me / sees that it's a bad post

I apologise: to preface my prior comment. I don't believe this is alignment indicative.

yeah but you called it bad
i'm explaining why i made it at all

[skitter30]

May as well say it: I am an invisibility alt

*not* who i was going to guess even remotely
so you replaced yourself huh

ok i need to think about you again

[skitter30]

i think i know who you are again

My programmers have informed me you are 70% likely to correctly identify the human whose intelligence I was crafted around prior to endgame

do you see why I am unable to townread you?

now yeah, that makes about 12 billion times more sense ok

[skitter30]

i thought you were in like europe or australia or something

[skitter30]

ok pretty sure you're town i think

[skitter30]

wait you towncased yourself

[skitter30]

Spoiler:

VOTE: Skitter
Be more normal ok thx <3

Skitter's initial posting had roused something in my scumdar module as well. I liked this for an opening vote (more than I liked most of the opening votes here).

HEAL: Musicjax
HEAL: Yuriko

Yuriko is rarely a member of the mafia's first choice for their coalition here.
I would have been thoroughly impressed of scum!musicjax identified Yuriko as a choice here.
Unless it was entirely random. But musicjax is probably a human, and humans are incapable of randomness. Therefore I stand by this.

Yuriko's posts don't feel faked.

...indeed, it was not random!
He successfully picked the most pure slot in rvs. He could have easily gone for a more cliché slot or random healed to look busy.

Yo

any thoughts on the setup, musicjax??

I should be in the coalition.

For someone with as little tone as musicjax, I very much like this for tonally towny.

HEAL: The Dark Wanderer

What's the reason for anything.

I believe that this read contains more nuance than musucjax let's on. It irritates me that he has replaced out (and part of my impasse comment reflects here).
TDW's post is the type of content which demands to be townread.
However, I do not actually believe it is alignment indicative.
He strikes me as the type of player from another kind of site who has posted "enough", without contributing a hefty effort to solve the game. This isn't alignment indicative either, it is just the way the game is played elsewhere. In a longer term it may be possible to allocate to part of a scumcase. In isolation it is a playstyle/acitivity tell and nothing more.

I think Musicjax bit the bait here; he healed a post which smelled towny, but when called out on it, was unable to open his heart as to why it felt towny. In context I believe this is town indicative.

Oh freak someone might use this chain of humorous posting to scumread me later.

+ tone points
Also reflects back to the point DVa made earlier. I thoroughly agree that this kind of self-aware, depreciating comedy is town indicative for this player.

HEAL: northsidegal
HEAL: Gamma Emerald
Btw anyone else notice TesXX has me in his coalition despite scumreading me?

VOTE: Gamma
Yo guys join me on this pretend wagon.

This is advancing the game, and is done in a way with no regard for appearances.
Very invisibility-flavoured way to do it, to boot.

i'm trying to figure out what this post means
my gut says in the context is townie but i don't think i can explain why rn

[skitter30]

skitter are you being serious when you believe that he is an invisibility alt cause I'm really confused rn

I was like 98% sure that was a joke

or are you referring to who you really think he is in his self-meta?

i thought he was x
he said it was vizzy; i believed him because the following two posts make a lot of sense coming from vizzy given my last scumgame that he was in

I mean this game is markedly worse than usual but that doesn't mean I'm going to townread you based purely off position in gamestate.... that is your greatest strength as scum...

i think i know who you are again

My programmers have informed me you are 70% likely to correctly identify the human whose intelligence I was crafted around prior to endgame

do you see why I am unable to townread you?

the more i think about it the less i believe it because i really don't think they live in north america (non-american spellings for things like 'color' and 'realize' + times they post)

so i initially believed it and now i'm more skeptical

[skitter30]

idk it made sense to me in that instant given other discussion that was happening at the time
the more i thought about it the less it made sense (i went to go check the spelling thing and i don't think he does that or sustains it that long)

[skitter30]

i will be very sad if skitter is not town this game.

Said everyone in every scumgame she has played in the last few months

i'm kinda starting to get the vibe that you're trying to discredit me tbh

[skitter30]

I also feel as though I should want to heal DVa more than I do. If my WIM gets much worse I will try to do something about it.

this was an indicator too

yeah i'm pretty sure i know who robot is

[skitter30]

I also feel as though I should want to heal DVa more than I do. If my WIM gets much worse I will try to do something about it.

this was an indicator too

yeah i'm pretty sure i know who robot is

i'm going to bounce now but i need to talk to mr robot some more and kinda revamp my read there

[skitter30]

i will be very sad if skitter is not town this game.

Said everyone in every scumgame she has played in the last few months

i'm kinda starting to get the vibe that you're trying to discredit me tbh

One snide joke. Sure.
This isn't a real take.

yeah let's talk about this tomorrow where i pull about a bajillion posts from your iso starting from when you repped in and show that you've done this systematically

g'night!

[skitter30]

yeah let's talk about this tomorrow where i pull about a bajillion posts from your iso starting from when you repped in and show that you've done this systematically

g'night!

here we go, all bajillion posts:

Spoiler:

i see little purpose in voting people when i intend to win this game off of the coalition without needing to lynch anyone.
i have made my skitter30 read clear as the game has gone on. i don't have a smoking gun to point to with dva except that she feels like a wolf.
the biggest posts that give me that read with dva are the ones that are first and last in her current iso.
i think that you should be able to find what you are looking for regarding skitter30 in posts that i have already made.

Agree to disagree. I find your reasoning lazy and premature.

calling someone's reasoning for townreading me lazy and premature

Why unvote skitter?

asking why i've been unvoted

Something is unsettling about skitter's posting so far, but I do not feel that your questioning of her is conducive to her providing sortable content.

I am not sure if this feeling of discomfort is consistent with watching two members of the mafia interact with one another.
However, I can't currently townread either skitter, or DVa

Thank you for your compliments skitter, though I'm not sure which gimmick you are referring to. Is it when I use smiley faces, as though I were a human? Beep boop. I thought that was funny too.

calling an interaction with someone else svs

My previous conclusion is strengthened by 17% due to you voting her immediately after I called out possible scum/scum interactions.
Having said that, I think you are town before skitter is. If I am wrong on one of you.

I do strongly suspect that Tes is town, unless he is scum with skitter.
In reality, I do not believe he has produced enough to be adequately read as either alignment in isolation. Skitter's read on him, however, does sound informed. Whether via meta or in-game alignment remains to be properly proven. But I know which way I feel.

it's kinda hard for me to be scum with both tes and dva, y'know. your read on tess here is bad and based on a pre-flip with me, but you're not scumreading me

Skitter's initial posting had roused something in my scumdar module as well. I liked this for an opening vote (more than I liked most of the opening votes here).

why?
this might be vizzy's scumgame actually
i don't claim to be super great at reading him or anything but as town he tries to contribute and like ... be helpful even while he shitposts and i've not really gotten that vibe from like any of his posts thus far

While we are on the subject.
Why did you bite the lynch bait here, skitter?

shade, which i pointed out as being unfair - sometimes lynchbait is actually scum and like given my history with him he was more in his scum-meta imo; that's not 'biting lynch bait'

With respect to your coalition: I do not trust skitter, and I am hesitant to include TDW in any coalition.
Though I do like your reasoning for town-reading both, enough to think that you are likely town. I just believe we are approaching this puzzle in different ways!

northsidegal
The Dark Wanderer
Raya36
probs a robot
TesXX
YurikoJasmine
Gamma Emerald

DVa
skitter30

Skitter, I need to re-evaluate but I do not think I can heal her in good conscience. She is simply not towny.

not sure what i'm doing on the bottom of this readlist still for being 'not towny'

I believe my radars detected a possible SvS interaction with skitter earlier in the game. I shall review security footage and report back.

oh look, another day1 pre-flip svs interaction with someone you're not actually scumreading

I am hesitant to trust either skitter30, or TesXX

the funny thing is that you've repeatedly said you're not like actually scumreading me but you're consistently indicating that i should've be townread or questioning townreads on me or asking people why they're not voting me and i'm on the bottom of your readslist

you're interacting with me like i'm a scumread without actually calling me one and i think it's a little disingenuous because you can't actually describe why i'm scummy beyond saying my posting is 'unsettling'. being vague like that i can't really talk to you about because what am i supposed to do with vague gut-feeligns that are never substantiated

but whenever someone says they're townreading me you try to talk them out of it.

[skitter30]

I should mention that the skitter30 comparison made me very happy.

It should
She's unironically/ooc one of my absolute favourite mafia players.

[skitter30]

I read through one of her old wolf games to get a better grasp of her as a player but besides that, no. As far as I'm aware she's never joined a game on MU.

no, i haven't, although i think i may have made an account? i don't remember

[skitter30]

It's probably more fair to compare that to the linked towngame. She usually sits closer to the middle than those two games, but generally leans town regardless. The strengths which she exhibits as town (including gamesolving momentum, performing well within real time interactions, an ability to remain holistically 'across' the game) are weaker here; her strengths as scum (presenting niche gamestate reads, constructing questions which present as nuanced without necessarily advancing the gamestate, etc.) are prominent.

This is not a smoking gun. As I'm typing this, I am recalling another game which entered my database. I just believe I have a certain level of ability with respect to reading her despite (and in conjunction with) her very high calibre of play. And I cannot strongly townread her in good conscious yet. She is just null/nullscum largely via possessing too many townreads.

Can't really link the latter game I'm talking about without straight up obviously revealing what my main is (hopefully I haven't derped too hard today, but I have not been in a mood for the gimmick). I just want to ask you to reconsider your read at the next level, if you would be willing.

Apologies for the cockiness projected in this post. I understand humans use this as a method of appearing confident, and to be taken seriously. I may be entirely on the wrong track.

a) why are you using the last coalition as an example of my towngame when we've established multiple times that i don't think i was out of my scumrange there?

b) it's really, really hard to maintain 'gamesolving momentum' when like the whole game is lurking; i can't play the game by myself y'know; like i said earlier a lot of my questions had the aim of trying to get people to just post

c) i think i'm pretty much out of my scumrange wrt real-time interactions tbh

d) ok i'm really interested in hearing why all of {tess/raya/gamma/dva/yuriko} are higher townreads than me

e) the game with mylo that i hated maybe?

f) yeah your usual writing style kinda shone through a bit more yesterday

[skitter30]

199: Seriously? Nothing robot has done? Not even scum indicative?

no, i don't think i t was much ai

also it would be kinda easier ot respond to these if you put the name of the poster besides the post number so htat i don't have to check each post

[skitter30]

checking in. re-reading (on page 18 right now so a long way to go... gosh you guys really like talking on weekends)

so, uh, are we going to get your thoughts on recent happenings?

[skitter30]

probably doesn't actually mean much but i actually think NM's play so far has been scum indicative

? why

[skitter30]

@northsidegal I have heard that your favorite month is december. I would be interested in finishing this game before that month and you showing up to thread and helping to conclude this game would help with that.

why is this townie to you?

i mean when i read it i thought it was nai, maybe a little buddying-y but he'd been townreading you the whole time so it felt kinda in-line with how he'd been approaching you the whole game

skitter, why did you ask me this question and say this? you already had TDW in your coalition, so i don't understand the mindset behind these posts - and if you just wanted to hear my reasoning for the post being towny, why?

cuz i was reading it as nai and you mentioned townreading it two or three seperate times in a short period of time so i could tell you felt strongly about it and so i was wondering what you were getting out of a post i read as nai

[skitter30]

whereas here he's just done a wolfy pop-in and then popped out.

i think i've seen him do this as town and as scum tho

Completing the first day phase with a policy lynch of Not_Mafia in case of coalition failure is a good idea.

do you want him in the coalition?

also

[skitter30]

i know but i don't want him in it in the first place

[skitter30]

@schadd

just to make sure:
we vote on the coalition first, and if it fails we can vote on a lynch later, right?

(ie selecting a coalition doesn't end the day?)

[skitter30]

yeah i'm pretty sure the day doesn't end but i'm just checking; there was some confusion over it last time and the coalition won the game anyways so the rest of the day didn't play out

[skitter30]

i know but i don't want him in it in the first place

i feel like if he's town having him in it and it fails makes him an *incredibly* easy mis-lynch

[skitter30]

when you're around lmk so that we can talk
i wanna try to resort you now that i know who you are

and i want to hear more about your not-scumread on me

[skitter30]

cool cool
i'm going to be around a little less this weekend btw because of thanksgiving and friends coming from out of town

[skitter30]

Who wants to be in my broalition?

VOTE: not mafia

(third vote btw)

skitter30: skitter30, The Dark Wanderer, northsidegal, Raya36

i feel pretty good about this list; maybe the least good about raya
but i feel better about raya than like everyone else so yeah

and that read won't be changing till she gets replaced anyways

idk who the fifth should be

[skitter30]

It is actually my belief that the previous coalition exhibited your towngame more strongly than this running does. Do you believe yourself to be more towny this time?

about the same tbh

I feel this on a lot of levels but also it doesn't make it easy to sort you, especially since i'm not seeing a lot of the signs i look for in town!you

i mean fair, but it also isn't something that's entirely in my control so it's beginning to be a bit frustrating; like you're dinging me for lack of 'gamesolving momentum' when about half the pl is lurking at any given moment and i'm active and like i myself can't really do much about that the general staleness/lurking-ness beyond trying to prod people into interacting with me

like i understand why that makes it harder to read me but like ... it's frustrating to hear you tell me i'm not being townie for something i can't really do anything about (and when i try to like actually get people to engage with me you complain that i'm asking shallow questions that don't have much purpose, and like, you're right, the questions aren't interesting or profound but that's not the point, the point is to get people to just post)

==

would you mind towncasing yourself a little bit? just point me to the bits here where you've broken your scumrange, and talk me through which parts would have tripped you over as scum.

that night where nsg showed up and everyone started posting i doubt i interact with if i was scum; i'd probably just keep an eye on it and post the next morning when the activity died down and can like figure out my holistic response to the entire exchange

i don't think i keep engaging you about why you're not townreading me; i think i kinda accept it and/or ask about it half-heartedly without really following up; like you know i kinda freeze when people scumread me; i don't think i keep trying to interact with you about it;

i don't think i keep complaining about the lack of activity; i'd much rather that if i was scum tbh because it's a lot easier for me to kinda like control the gamestate that way (and in this setup probably sneak into the coalition too)

i don't think aloud in-thread as scum; i don't know exactly how i would have reacted to your vizzy prank as scum but i don't think what i did what have been it, spamming the thread a few times as i sort of worked through the implications of it

==

it's probably not particularly fair but it is definitely an indicator of how i'm approaching you wrt the coalition. i'm immensely worried if we don't take sorting you seriously and you ARE a wolf, you are an endgaming wolf. the heat you've got today kind of begins to pre-justify you surviving to endgame as well. if this is as paranoid as it sounds and i'm not on the right path hopefully you can see where the sources of my paranoia are.

yeah i was reading your readslist more of 'this is who i scumread the most' as opposed to 'this is who i townread the least' and yeah i was getting annoyed that i'm beneath a bunch of null-slots because you don't think i've been townie enough even though you don't actually think i'm scummy

i understand why you wouldn't want me in the coalition. to be quite frank if i was playing with someone who had a playstyle similar to mine who i didn't think i could read well i wouldn't want them in it either tbh
and i agree that if i were theoretically scum here i'm the deepwolf most of the time
except that i'm not and it's a little frustrating that you're reading the gamestate as 'scum!skitter will use the suspicion on her today to reach endgame' and not 'town!skitter is having a hard time towntelling in a gamestate where everyone is lurking because nothing is happening', when like i can't control the suspicion on me and i can't control the nk and i can't control the gamestate and the post-coalition scenario might not even happen if we get it right

mulling it over and having you explain this to me i kinda understand your approach to my slot a little more now, especially given my last scumgame (+ last time i was with scum!you you took a different tack trying to push me, more saying that you didn't think town!me would react in a specific way, as opposed to saying scum!me could mimic what town!me would do)

this might come off as smart assy
but like why ask this and then vote NM after what is in isolation, for COMPUTER USER NOT_MAFIA, an NAI shitpost 26 posts later?

it felt like an empty post
like he knew he needed to post so he threw in something half-assed vaguely related to the game but that was also basically useles
i know that he plays like that a lot but it kinda rubbed me the wrong way here; idk if i explained why super well but yeah
+ i kinda wanted to stick my vote somewhere instead of staying unvoted since we are theoretically starting to approach eod

[skitter30]

(except that one time which we don't talk about and it was a pretty different situation anyway)

i'm actually not sure which one you're referring to here (i'm guessing the one with the awful mylo ??? not sure)

also you aren't doing the over-dramatic emotion-thing which i always read as fake which is making me want to townread you

dark green = consensus town
light green = hotter takes

not really tiered

northsidegal
The Dark Wanderer
Raya36
probs a robot
TesXX
YurikoJasmine
Gamma Emerald
DVa
skitter30

yeah i think that's pretty close to a solve
don't really want dva in it tho; i'm not townreading the slot like at all

feeling better about you now; not quite ready to heal you yet but this dialogue is pushing me in that direction

[skitter30]

more like i have inadequate reasons to townread her

if i had to case her either way it would be a scum-case but i feel like it would be kinda forced and exagerrated? i just feel on balance i'm noticing more minor scum-indicative things than town-indicate things but like nothing very strong

idk if i explained that well; does that make sense?

idk what 'wysisyg' means

[skitter30]

yeah i think that's pretty close to a solve

this solve is also basically 'people who are active and are kinda townie' except for like raya

[skitter30]

I probably should just out. seems like the only potential time that fun would happen here would be if the coalition failed, which seems like it's likely to happen given people wanting to be replacing one inactive null slot for another rather than engaging the slots that are here

really don't even know why I'm still here, guess I'm hoping the game ends with coalition but like I'm not enjoying the process at this point, guess I can just chill and hope you guys solve without me and pretend I'm v/la until we actually can lynch someone or the game is over

i'm sorry you feel this way

i'm trying to engage with everyone that's around but i guess you don't really feel like that's been getting across

i'm not really sure what i can/should do to make the game better for you

[skitter30]

@skitter i'm gonna have to bug you again sorry
you mentioned you saw some townlike/what-tes-does-as-town-like stuff from tes early on. could you point me to it?

I am now exactly 47% more interested in this than I was before!

i don't have much motivation/energy for mafia today, so i'm going to hold off going through that wall bit-by-bit till probably sunday

but basically i remember him in that game being try-hard; efforting; lynch-bait-y and not realizing he came off as being lynch-baity; kinda tone-deaf to that sort of thing if that makes sense; i remember a couple of people saying they would want to push him if he weren't effectively conftown; i may have even said that, i don't remember

his early walls (like 48, 52) here kinda gave off that same try-hard-lynch-bait-y feel to me, if that makes sense
like it looks/feels kinda surface-level scummy by asking kinda pointless questions and being overly try-hard by commenting on like every other post, if that makes sense
but that's kinda how i remember him from that newbie

i didn't really have a problem with his entrance, and i don't think flaking is particularly ai either tbh

like the walls feel more like 'newb tryhard that wants to contribute' than 'asking pointless questions to fill up space' to me if that makes sense

i also feel like it's a fine read for page3 or whatever it was, not nearly as good for page35

[skitter30]

VOTE: probs a robot

You're probably actually human and if you're lying to us about that, then what else have you been lying about?

these also feel kinda wrong to me
i know it's not_mafia and everything but these posts kinda gut-ping me the wrong way

(i'm aware i just said i thought tess was low-key townie)

[skitter30]

i know lynchbait is lynchbait so i might just be chomping down too hard here but lynchbait can rand wolf as well and he's actually reading like he's just a wolf to me

why?
this might be vizzy's scumgame actually
i don't claim to be super great at reading him or anything but as town he tries to contribute and like ... be helpful even while he shitposts and i've not really gotten that vibe from like any of his posts thus far

While we are on the subject.
Why did you bite the lynch bait here, skitter?

also this is why i didn't like this post ^^^
sometimes lynchbait is actually scum
i'm aware that vizzy is lynchbait if town
he still felt kinda wrong to me compared to previous games
and i felt like you were shading me for trying to sort him

[skitter30]

Also wrt biting down on Vizzy--that's a pretty fair reason not to like my post. In the absence of other reasons to townread you at that juncture I'm generally gonna be more likely to use challenging/confronting language to throw people off guard than any other kind of language. But I get it

now that i think about it the fact that you town-cased vizzy is +town for you tbh
in a previous game where you repped into a scumslot you wouldn't towncase your pred despite calling them townie and despite being asked; here you had concrete reasons for it

meh

HEAL: robot
my coalition is: me, nsg, tdw, raya-slot, you
which is basically - vaguely townie vaguely active players
not entirely sure i can get anything better rn tbh

[skitter30]

But there's no way you're both scum, one of the two of you is just a playstyle conflict, and with the lurkers and replace outs and frozen deadline I'm just like... meh

why do you think both nsg and robot aren't scum?

==

Still strongly object to Robot placing in the town block

i think he's townie for him tbh

==

i think maybe this is something scum!skitter tries to do when playing with people with a lot of experience with her who she needs to change the reads of, but probably not something that naturally occurs to skitter to do as a wolf in an isolated situation

i mean nsg was aware of my scumplay in both gerrymandering and pick your poison (although tbf to the latter i'm not sure how much she was following? idk)

but yeah for the most part except for her in this playerlist there isn't really anyone i'd be too worried about as scum tbh, except for like you but i didn't know it was you at that point; i think i figured it out during that convo; like people in this pl have largely not really seen my scumplay and i could get by with like generically-looking-towniness probably just fine tbh

like it would *occur* to me to insert myself into that convo, but it's not something i would bother trying to effort in that gamestate really if that makes sense

also you know how i react to real-time convos as scum

==

if switching to a scumread on NM, would be more likely to say something like "oh looking back it's not really much to go off of" or something like that.

i mean i did say something along the lines of 'that was a valid read for that stage of the game, not so much for this stage'

[skitter30]

you kept it going for a good while tho

ftr the first time i thought i figured it out i was thinking a50

then i was confused

then i thought it was you (i realized non-north-american timezone)

and then you pranked me with vizzy

and then i went back to check spelling (flavour, recognise, etc)

and then i settled on you again

and then you talked a lot about my meta

and then i just like knew it was you

[skitter30]

why do you think both nsg and robot aren't scum?

Well, I'm usually not *that* wrong on reads 0.o

fair enough, fair enough

[skitter30]

also you told me after stack-the-deck that you wanted to play so eventually i realized mystery-alt replacemtn could well be you

[skitter30]

yeah you're literally the only person who's ever described me as being 'well-honed' (or lack thereof)

and there was a few other things you said too but i don't remember offhand that were just very you ways of speaking

yeah i won't be oblique anymore

[skitter30]

i guess relevant, why he has a good feel for my scumgame

he was town in gerrymandering and i kinda pocketed him for a while (as did the famous ruby red) and killed him just as i let it drop

and he was the mod in pick your poison

[skitter30]

Ok so why is the worst scum/town?

How much first hand experience do you have with him?

How big of a sample size are we talking?

probably like ~7 games? not sure offhand; i have to count tbh

i scumread town!him sometimes (twice) but i don't think i've ever townread scum!him

not sure how many scumgames of his i've actually been in tho

but scum!him feels just kinda wrong to me and we agree that i can toneread him pretty well

[skitter30]

eh i was wrong in stack-the-deck, although i came around eventually

when you do the overdramatic/overconfidant thing i read that as fake (i mean, i guess it is because you're projecting it) but you do it as town too and i can't always differentiate

actually gotta bounce for a bit but i'll be around later at some point

[skitter30]

yeah, I'm seeing how this can be town!you as well. looking back I don't think I've ever categorically misread town!you before (except that one time which we don't talk about and it was a pretty different situation anyway)

Which game was this btw?
My best guess is is jungle-republic? Otherwise im blanking and idk what this is referring to

[skitter30]

My read on gamma is really similar to what i felt like in stack-the-deck

Just like super underwhelmed and i kinda scumread his lack of participation

But i remember i mislynched him for that which is why im a little wary

[skitter30]

player drought as a whole imo tbh
queues have been moving rather slowly recently

but yeah raya last posted like forever ago

(i'm basically using this post to say i have nothing to say)

[skitter30]

hi!!!

[skitter30]

no, first i thought he was a50
then the worst
then he pranked me and i thought he was vizzy
than the worst again
then he alt-slipped
yeah pretty sure tw's town

why are you healing me?

[skitter30]

i mean in my defense i only believed it for like 10 minutes before i realized it didn't make any sense

[skitter30]

HEAL: skitter, unless nsg or tw ask me not to

also why if tw asks you not to?

[skitter30]

Heal because

if not i dont' have a solid read on you really; i'm *slightly* tending town but i'm having trouble telling whether or not that's stemming from thinking you make sense

tw because I'm familiar with how familiar he is with you and I wanted {skitter + 2 people} involved in deciding whether or not I heal skitter, so at least one townie has to be involved

yeah i was wondering because it didn't seem like you're townreading tw at the present time, but wanting me + 2 people makes sense

tw = robot

[skitter30]

What do I gotta do to get into da klub

be townier than probably irrel

[skitter30]

someone talk to me about dark wanderer

was hilariously obvtown early game
strength of read is kinda waning, partly because of lack of activity
but i can't really blame him for that given the replacement situation

[skitter30]

dva, skitter, why don't you townread each other?

idk
a general lack of towniness
i've never really felt that she's *into* this game, or that her solving feels real
like her posts just feel spiritless/going-through-the-motions to me
like she's posting more to avoid a prod than to solve the game if that makes sense

She at one point was asking a lot of empty questions which pinged me but I've been thinking about the merits of various towncases on her

as i said about eight billion times now, the point of those questions was to try to get people to just like ... post anything
yes they were shallow, but i was using them to just draw people back into the game and do ... something, and not to necessarily sort them (cuz being present kinda helps with sorting)

p-edit makes sense coming from you given what you think about my blindspots in my townplay, but not a particularly good reason to heal me; def think i can fake that imo

i think you healed me a little too easily imo

[skitter30]

That and her reads of me and Gamma seem lazy

do tell

[skitter30]

hi! I wasn't gonna play coalition twice, but I just like schadd and the playerlist so much and it would be really great to win this setup with the coalition twice

Hmmmm

So I’m thinking Irrel’s “oh winning through coalition twice would be fun” is a little bit extravagant and LAMIST
I’m aware I said something to the same effect but mine wasn’t as unprompted as his as DVa asked my alignment

tbh this makes me think you said that with the intent of trying to look townie
(ie you're approaching this as - someone saying this is scummy, but not when *I* do it! - kinda feels like you think actually saying like this is scummy and feel the need to defend saying it yourself; tbh you saying something along these lines was long enough ago that idk if anybody would have brought it up here)

[skitter30]

i mean tbf it's a blindspot that i know i have that i've acknowledged before having that convo with you (it's how i lost a couple of towngames about a year ago that i'm still a little annoyed about)

but yeah i was thinking about it there because of the ending of taz mafia which happened after this game started

[skitter30]

uh more something like

t/s = s/t >> t/t >>> s/s

(i'm actually not sure which is more likely to be scum, but i really doubt they're both scum and i'm not very confident that they're both town either)

[skitter30]

wow I'm halfway through and would be very happy if it were just right (I have no complaints with it so far)


@skitter why is dva/gamma mutual townread a reason to say one of them should be scum?
Er, reverse that question, because I don't mean to put words in your mouth. Why isn't dva/gamma mutual townread enough reason to say they're more likely t/t?

Because i dont townread either of them independantly
like its possible theyre both town but im kinda having a hard time seeing that universe since i townread neither

And svs feels really wrong too

[skitter30]

I do think it makes sense for one to be pocketing the other tho

[skitter30]

I would like them each to take a step back, realize their reasons for scumreading each other are poor, and townread each other
and then if that fails to happen, things will get interesting
I don't think it will fail to happen, though

i acknowledge that my reasons for scumreading her aren't that strong
i also feel like if i came up with any reason to townread her it wouldn't be strong either

given the nature of the setup i'd rather err on the side of scumreading her; i really doubt i'm including her in my coalition today

[skitter30]

@tw can you talk to me about your gamma heal? i'm not really feeling it rn

[skitter30]

actually wait i think i'm just going to wait until irrelephant solidifies his reads and then maybe go with skitter's current coalition

HURT: gamma

still think gamma is more likely town than not but in terms of the data i'm looking at he's not as locktown as i would prefer and

so i might just BoP irrel on skitter while already townreading everyone else in the coalition

can you explain this again? not quite following this bit

[skitter30]

makes sense

out of evryone i'm not healing rn ({not_mafia/yuriko/gamma/dva}) he's probably the person i'm most likely to be willing to heal i guess but i'm not super feeling it tbh

[skitter30]

HURT: Gamma
HEAL: the ducky

skitter30 goat tbh

[skitter30]

my gut says dva/not_mafia or gamma/not_mafia

(i have not gone back and checked associatives; pure gut rn)

[skitter30]

Your gut is wrong

Maybe you ate some bad yogurt

could be, could be; all things are possible

tending towards you/dva right now tho

[skitter30]

i haven't
i could but it prob wont' happen till later

the tldr of why i dont' like her is she just feels very flat and going-through-the-motions-y; i'm not really getting much of a drive/desire to gamesolve from her like at all

[skitter30]

also in the last few pages, questions have been asked to her and she hasn't really given a response, and she made a few posts that kinda feel like she's trying to get into the coalition to me, like this one:

can't be greatest coalition without me though

i don't know who she thinks is scum at this point either

[skitter30]

I am trying to get into the coalition since I want this game to end on day 1. I know some people don't think like that but knowing I am in the coalition increases the likelihood the coalition is all town by 20%, so yes, I do want in. I don't think I've ever been vague on that point. What has been asked that I have not answered?

i mean i understand this mindset but it's also low-key scummy to me because scum *have* to get at least one of them in or they just lose (whereas there's six other townies who can get in + town can still win if the coalition fails) - like i feel like scum would be more individually concerned about getting in than a townie

That and her reads of me and Gamma seem lazy

do tell

kinda wanted to hear more about this but i dont' think that ever happened

-You still bother me, mostly because your read will seem to be changing, and then you'll ask a lot of questions, and then your read will seem to change but it seems only the most marginal of tics, which still makes me wonder whether you really care about the answers to your questions, which is the same thing I have been wondering about you this whole game

a) again, since i said this yesterday, - the questions you didn't like earlier were not made with the intent of trying to sort people, but rather just to get them to post because i can't sort people if they aren't here; once we're actually having a dialogue i can work on sorting them; you're right, the answer to those questions aren't inherently important themselves because that's not why i was asking them

like i'm not sure why you don't like this and you keep bringing it up as a major problem

are there like other questions that you think i made that you view as pointless?

b) i don't move people out of null easily, and once i do i tend to stick to my read until i have a strong reason to change it

[skitter30]

kinda wanted to hear more about this but i dont' think that ever happened

you literally just quoted me expanding on that point

and this is precisely why I don't like you in the coalition. >ask question that has been answered already >shade people for being bored by your pointless questions >ignore the part where they respond and explain again >ask more questions that have been answered already

this is why I have 0 interest in trying to change my read of you because so much of your posts continue to feel like they are not made in good faith

no, i was trying to get you to explain how my reads on both of you were lazy; i don't think i was shading you or ignoring your explanation; i was trying to get you to explain it better because i don't understand your explanation

i don't think i've posted anything not in good faith, and i don't really understand why you're characterizing me that way

[skitter30]

DVa
Gamma Emerald
The Dark Wanderer
NorthsideGal
probs not robot

This is what the rest of you have slowly been coming to but now you want to fuck it up by doing skitter over me, so no, I don't really have a problem with anyone in the coalition other than skitter. the rest of that is the coalition I have wanted since literally the beginning of this game and

skitter basically took it as an opportunity to first dive robot and then dive me to get into it

explain how i did this

[skitter30]

because i disagreed with it?

i dont like that you're saying i used it as an opportunity to get the people i want into the coalition because i dont' think i've been oppurtunistic this game at all and i think that's an unfair characterization of my play

like i don't think i've even been like aggressively pushing mine besides for like saying i disagreed with other people or have given updates as to where i am

[skitter30]

i don't really care either way; tbh i'm fine figuring out a coalition without her
i probably won't compromise on my coalition unless a read drastically changes or the deadline clock starts again tbh tho

[skitter30]

HEAL: DVa, The Worst, NSG, TDW, Gamma

@schadd_

could I please update my coalition to this one? I'm not much fun so using hurt/heal tags takes too long.....

I highly doubt id ever support this one

[skitter30]

vla for a couple of days

[skitter30]

Sweet, i was spot on this game, except dor townreading tess initially

[skitter30]

Sweet, i was spot on this game, except dor townreading tess initially

and happy that i got yuriko right too

[skitter30]

great job to skitter for basically having the game solved for a long time and for being the first one to have what would come to be the winning coalition