Overkill 1: Serenity/Firefly (GAME OVER)

[RightKnight]

One thing that I think needs addressing A50, is that you basically encouraged us to flavor game by removing our flavor in an attempt to get us to not flavor game. Town needed a few Vanilla in order for Scum to have a bit more safety in their claims. I do like the off the wall roles since that could also encourage some wild roles to be thought up, like Enabler, scum to hide in, but role madness allowed for town to discern the identities of players simply based on their powers. I only had 3 players wrong in my flavor spec before you announced it, and if you are trying to hide our identities before our flips, then there definitely needed to be more room for doubt in who was what role.

One thing that I think needs addressing A50, is that you basically encouraged us to flavor game by removing our flavor in an attempt to get us to not flavor game. Town needed a few Vanilla in order for Scum to have a bit more safety in their claims. I do like the off the wall roles since that could also encourage some wild roles to be thought up, like Enabler, scum to hide in, but role madness allowed for town to discern the identities of players simply based on their powers. I only had 3 players wrong in my flavor spec before you announced it, and if you are trying to hide our identities before our flips, then there definitely needed to be more room for doubt in who was what role.

This is an excellent point.

+1

Yup, yup, we were done for, once Chick checked us. A50 can say fakeclaiming MD enabler would have helped but I don’t think it explains away that damning pic.

~Nancy

[RightKnight]

Yup, yup, we were done for, once Chick checked us. A50 can say fakeclaiming MD enabler would have helped but I don’t think it explains away that damning pic.

Well, it wouldn't have saved you at THIS point, but it still was more interesting than Doctor Enabler, tbh.

Oh, well.. I t was interesting to see you try still. That was fun on its own.

Why would we assume an MD even existed in the game and you initially tried to talk us out of it, until I insisted.

*confused*

~N

[RightKnight]

RK(the operative I assume?)'s role PM?
-Cerb

Hello Toranaga

You are the Operative, a Union of Allied Planets agent sent to destroy River Tam and all witnesses on Serenity. Each night you may target one player to kill them with your sword. You have a 2-shot Commuter ability though so you may use that if you don't want to kill on any given night.

You win when all other players are dead or nothing can prevent that from happening.

Important: There is a chance the game may end before you can accomplish your mission, so choose your victims wisely.

Even more important: To avoid flavour gaming; Town players have NOT been given their flavour.

“Would you be killed in your sleep, like an ailing pet?”

@Drixx @ReasonablyRational @Cerb yeah

[RightKnight]

thor/elsa jay were aligned (both 3p)
all of my townreads were town, all of my scumreads were scum

No RC, none of the 3Ps were aligned only Mafia was.

[RightKnight]

they were the same alignment (3p)

But we all had a separate wincon, unlike Mafia.

[RightKnight]

Why would we assume an MD even existed in the game and you initially tried to talk us out of it, until I insisted.

I tried to talk you out of claiming Motion Detector, not Enabler to Motion Detector. Double check your PMs

It think there was a miscommunication then, because I asked about claiming MD enabler, not ND specifically.

~Nancy

[RightKnight]

Yeah, you can release our PT. I’m obviously not at liberty to ask Tora about ours.

There’s really nothing worth reading though.

[RightKnight]

they were the same alignment (3p)

You need to come back me up against a whole lot of players who insist SK is an ALIGNMENT, Survivor is an ALIGNMENt, and no matter how I try to explain these are all ROLES and their alignment is THIRD PARTY they won't accept it.

TBF, I break it down further.

Townsiding 3p is different than Scumsiding 3p is different than Self Aligned 3p.

Like, a survivor is different inherently from SK, because SK CAN'T win with town.

Lyncher, Unlyncher, etc are all basically the same thing (other than what team they're helping).

And Jesters are garbage, outside of very carefully designed setups that utilize them in interesting ways.

I would love to be a jester at least once.

~Nancy

[RightKnight]

Btw I’m sorry if i offended anyone during this game.

Mainly pointing out to EJ and Gamma.

Btw I’m sorry if i offended anyone during this game.

Mainly pointing out to EJ and Gamma.

I’ll admit I was a bit of an ass because I was kinda jaded

I went trolly mode since you also went for my wincon. I apologize as well.

Everyone apologizing except for Flicker. Noted.

[RightKnight]

The craziest player .. by far .. was EJ. We (myself, ruru & Varsoon) were wondering what he was doing with the Doctor fake claim. Then it got interesting. I'll smoke whatever you're smoking dude.

Tora totally bought that fakeclaim, hook, line and sinker.

[RightKnight]

Alright! I'm at a computer.

First, thanks for the game A50. I'm glad Drixx and I got to keep up our habit of being very important people in the theme of games we play in.

Regarding balance: Chickadee's role was definitely overpowered. Perhaps it's just because we didn't see sufficient town imagery, but the scum imagery was clearly enough scummy to enable strong arguments to be made that they're scum; she really was functionally a day cop for at least 3 of the 5 scum slots. That combined with a masonry is a bit much, even with 3 anti-town shots in play.

The scum protectives likely weren't enough; none of them were capable of being proactive while defending themselves even a single time.

Mala's role was...difficult, to say the least. I do agree that she should have been informed of who mal was. That would have been a decent way to help her out. The only way she would have known who Malcolm was without mass claiming of the flavor pieces left in our role PM's was through them getting lynched/venge'd and Bujaber dying and her somehow convincing everyone to lynch a conftown. Like...no. Not going to happen.

I think an interesting take on her role(and way to balance out chickadee's) would have been to give chickadee's investigative ability to Mala. That gives her a way to find Mal and makes it so that overpowered investigative ability wasn't going to be used perfectly in town's favor; perhaps limited protection instead of unlimited should have been attached in that case as well.

EJ's role was fine? Survivor non-weak ascetic BP hider seems like it should always be able to win, so the win condition might be too easy compared to a standard survivor. EJ should have never been at risk of being lynched or shot if not for their own gambits.

Now, the flavor thing: I don't think that having any bit of flavor in our role PM's that existed outside the sample role pm should have happened, or if it did, it should have happened for everyone, and been made clear to the scum. The clears we got from the whole thing with flicker shouldn't have been possible. The guilties clearly weren't, so that's fine at least...but in a game with a cop and masons, getting additional clears for free shouldn't be possible(especially when a single crew member flip clears 3 other individuals(two of whom were masons, sure, but still)).

Balance thoughts all done.

ND39: Drixx was CERTAIN you guys were scum on D1, but after comparing your play here and your play in Heroes, he decided that it was a false positive because your play was so different. You'll have to hear from him on his thoughts there, but yeah, you coming into the slot likely saved you guys from being lynched D1.

<3 Thanks for that. Do you think I might have gotten further in the game if A50 had given me a reasonable fakeclaim? Faking abilities in Heroes was difficult enough but trying to figure something like that out without knowing anything about the flavour or general inexperience with playing scum/anti-town roles in general - This was only my 4th game ever, where I haven’t played as town - not just on MS.

Or had I been playing this slot alone, from the getgo. Math did a pretty decent job, considering he didn’t really know what was happening in the game, most of the time. Anyone would have lockedtowned us based solely on our Discord chat. I mean obviously - minus the NK talk.

Anyway, as I already explained to A50, playing as an SK is very different than playing Mafia. Also Heroes was my first scum/anti-town Mafia game ever.

~Nancy

[RightKnight]

Just so you all know it, the next Overkill will have tweaks to many aspects. No 2 role PMs will be exactly the same regardless of role/alignment. Fake claims already provided for all non-town players. Referencing game-related interactions with the mod outside of your own Role PM and/or action results is an offense punished by a modkill, regardless of whether it's true or fake.

Also, info available about your own flavor with links to another site (imdb) for reference. HOWEVER, knowledge of any flavor is NOT necessary and will have no bearing on the game at all. (That's me saying there will be no Flavor Cops and the flavor cannot be gamed anyway).

I and others have referenced many game-related mod comments in many games I’ve been in, so am I missing something specific here?

~Nancy

[RightKnight]

Just so you all know it, the next Overkill will have tweaks to many aspects. No 2 role PMs will be exactly the same regardless of role/alignment. Fake claims already provided for all non-town players. Referencing game-related interactions with the mod outside of your own Role PM and/or action results is an offense punished by a modkill, regardless of whether it's true or fake.

Also, info available about your own flavor with links to another site (imdb) for reference. HOWEVER, knowledge of any flavor is NOT necessary and will have no bearing on the game at all. (That's me saying there will be no Flavor Cops and the flavor cannot be gamed anyway).

What will the theme be?

Hopefully either something Sci-Fi or comedic?

[RightKnight]

And with how many movies he made, fake claims were easier than the real ones.

Donald Trump would be the ultimate fake claim.

~Nancy

[RightKnight]

I and others have referenced many game-related mod comments in many games I’ve been in, so am I missing something specific here?

I dunno what you mean. Are you talking about THIS game (Serenity) or the upcoming one (Stallone)?

I’m just wanting clarity on this because I’ve done it and seen it done many many times, so why would that result in a modkill?

But yes, please explain it wrt both games then, because I’m confused.

[RightKnight]

Oh okay, I was referring to something quite different.

~N

[RightKnight]

Oh, and to ALL: How the hell did you guys think HoB might've killed Thor when he was found with a pierce through the heart? HoB flipped with their flavor saying they kill with a sonic device that induces blood from every orifice.

Not to ALL, obviously.

~N