Overkill 1: Serenity/Firefly (GAME OVER)

[Toogeloo]

idk who I am

Neither do I. My flavor was cut out "to be revealed later."

Is it bad that I townread everyone except RC, Tor and Chickadee?

Most impressive since like half the game hadn't posted yet.

[Toogeloo]

Mod responded to my request for flavor. I'm a Reaver. That's a good guy, right?

Also...

Vote: Reasonably Rational

Serious vote as my tryhard alarm is pinging.

[Toogeloo]

Joke went over too many heads.

Mod did not, nor did I ask, reveal my flavor. I don't know what I am.

[Toogeloo]

@Toog:

tryhard alarm
didn't ping to you earlier??

I'm mostly just getting scum vibes from the over analysis of RC's Masonry claim.

[Toogeloo]

Why did you feel the need to reiterate this?

Because apparently people took me seriously when I claimed to be a Reaver.

I've seen the series in full probably a dozen times, and the movie even more times. I thought it would be an apparent attempt at jest.

[Toogeloo]

Vote: Reasonably Rational

Vote counter be broked.

[Toogeloo]

In almost 15 total years of playing forum mafia, I don't think I've ever used the vote thing. I type almost everything from quick reply lol.

[Toogeloo]

VOTE: Vote: Reasonably Rational[/b]

...fixed.

The only slot to give me the gorram hibbity jibbies in my gut so far.

[Toogeloo]

lol, fail.

VOTE: Vote: Reasonably Rational

[Toogeloo]

Whatever... you guys get the point.

15 years, never needed to use the gorram vote tags before. Stupid forward progress of lazy moderators and their need for automated vote counters.

[Toogeloo]

[Toogeloo]

I don't get the RR wagon. It's far too flimsy to have this many votes.

Thus far, I think every wagon has been flimsy. It's typical day 1 stuff, "thinking is hard, let's kill something and get on to night 1 so I can use my powahz."

[Toogeloo]

Vote Counter is broken anyways considering RR has 4 different Vote Lines.

Wagon on RR is simply, I voted them because I didn't like their posting and then the lemming festival kinda walked on through as they moved off their last vanity wagon.

[Toogeloo]

For the record, I felt the over analysis of the Masonry claim felt forced, which is what gives me the scum vibe from your slot. Was getting that try hard mentality from your slot.

[Toogeloo]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Elsa Jay

We can't have more than 2 of each alignment killed per total cycle, which diminishes the role of Doctor as it is. Add in the fact that Elsa has admitted to not having a town wincon and it makes for an easy choice to lynch since depending on how the game goes, they'll flip to whichever side helps them achieve their wincon, which will make it more difficult to lynch the slot if we find ourselves in deep too far down the road.

I'm not changing my vote and standing firm on this. We aren't leashing third party, regardless of what the role is.

[Toogeloo]

Just checking in.

Still not changing my vote unless I'm required to break a tie.

I do have the reverse opinion of BuJaber and suspect that the Tor replacement into a Hydra might have been tactical. Skimmed most the rest of the game since my last post and don't have anything else significant to add.

[Toogeloo]

Elsa playing like a 3rd party sheep, surprise surprise. And that new role info too...

People are insane for even remotely thinking Elsa won't stab town in the back. If we mislynch even a couple of times, we'll hit a point of no return to remove third party Survivor from the game. But apparently we have no power roles to help game solve during the night phase and we need to know all the scumz by the end of day 1, so let's ignore the claimed scum (yes Survivor is still scum, any non town alignment is), and cross our fingers, am I right?

[Toogeloo]

My mental notes escape me atm, but I think I had...
Elsa Kay
Nancy Drew Toranaganate
BoogerJabber
...as scum reads.

I'm struggling to keep up with the pace since I'm on business in DC right now (and another week more). Hopefully I'll be dead after Night 1 though, so it wont be much an issue.

[Toogeloo]

I think someone asked what info can be gained from lynching Elsa.

People can still have stances on other reads and lynch the claimed scum, plus night brings in a lot of information as well which almost always substantiates previous positions or opens new avenues of discussion.

The game is designed to try and prevent swing, but that doesnt mean it isnt possible, and if town loses too many members before scum loses even one, Elsa automatically becomes a non facto member of the scum team. Lynching her later in the game is still a mislynch in the eyes of the mafia team.

[Toogeloo]

I think Drixx mentioned this, but I believe you were present in Heroes Wanted, though I was dead and flipped by the time you joined. Were you in that game during D2? And/or did you read D2, and come away with the impression that tryharding is out of character for me?

I replaced in Day 3, and I didn't read anything in that game except one player's iso (the lynched scum). That game had too much noise and far too many posts to reasonably expect any replacement to read.

I'd like more details on why you view what I said as overanalysis. You're familiar with RC, yes? Is anything RC does something that should ever be accepted at face value, or analyzed minimally?

I am familiar with RC. More importantly though, there are certain aspects of RVS that I almost immediately do not think are worth over analyzing since I know they can just as easily be there for conversation starting purposes, and many players do it that make it NAI.

Why is this post minimizing the reasoning you gave for the vote? Previously you had expressed a (singular) specific reason, but now you've changed it to a vague statement. What were you trying to accomplish here by downplaying your own reasoning, while downplaying everyone else's even more?

My gut said scum, I tried to simplify the reasoning.

The last couple all go together. At least, the Elsa Jay part. Why are you pushing for their lynch today so hard, if you agree that mechanically lynching them at any point in the game is the same? It feels like you have the same reasoning as Jingle, but instead of arriving at their conclusion that Elsa has to be lynched at some time prior to LYLO, you decided they need to be lynched NOW. I don't understand how the two of you applied the same logic and arrived at such different conclusions.

Can you elaborate on NDS and Bujaber scumreads?

Scum is scum. Elsa presented herself on a silver platter on the only day in the game where we have the complete luxury of taking them out with practically no recourse. This opportunity will not present itself again and becomes a double edge sword if we start to fall behind. Tomorrow, night information or analysis of kills will put her lower on the "to lynch" list, and if town fails to kill mafia within the first two lynches or so, we won't even have the ability to lynch Elsa anymore because it will become even more imperative to lynch mafia.

Elsa does not share the same wincon, and even though it's a bit drastic of a comparison, you wouldn't leash a serial killer just to get them to maybe shoot some mafia.

[Toogeloo]

I'll humor people.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Flicker

[Toogeloo]

Chara and flicker scum team and their Gambit failed?

[Toogeloo]

Is it a party in Jingle's pocket? Is anyone else invited?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: BuJangles

[Toogeloo]

Aww

[Toogeloo]

I know toogeloo from a game he replaced in and played wonderfully towny the whole time he was there. his posting here is bad. lacks content and passion. this is a slot that's active lurking btw, for those of you who like reading into shit like this.

Are you referring to Heroes Wanted, where I replaced in Day 3, literally read 1 player's ISO, and then told everyone I needed to be lynched Day 4 because I town read scum?

[Toogeloo]

If you'll refer to the sign up thread, I did preface my in to this game as it being a bad idea given my October workload. I'm keeping up quite well all things considered.

[Toogeloo]

My wiki is up to date for anyone who feels like they need to use a metal argument against me. Ive been playing quite a while though, so I'm pretty aware of my own meta and can shift it when necessary, so trust or distrust at your own peril. That being said, I was assigned the Innocent Child role in Meta Playstyle, which I thought was pretty funny.

[Toogeloo]

Anyone who cares, I rely largely on my gut and my child psychology degree for determining motivation of posting styles. Typically I can very rarely adequately explain town and scum reads on Day 1, but I tend to not second guess myself. It works pretty well for me.

I come from a long history on another site that lynching anything that doesn't share the same wincon as you is always the right play, and stick to my opinion that the correct play today is still lynch the variable that can hurt town in the long run. People are a bit softer here and willing to give it a pass, but I've yet to play a game where a lynch can be reserved for a later time and that luxury maintained it's status quo through the game.

[Toogeloo]

Intersect: {Toog, Cheeky, RC/Chara, Elsa}

Definitely scum among the intersect.

No pretty sure there's no scum in this intersect...

To be fair, Elsa is scum in the intersect.

[Toogeloo]

Toog answer this simple question: do you think Elsa will endgame as scum?

The more important question is, is she willing to lose with town if we are in bad shape come day 3 or 4?

[Toogeloo]

Scum is the combined anti town element.
Mafia is a team.

[Toogeloo]

But... you are scum lol. I mean, town is willing to leash you, but that doesn't change your nature.

[Toogeloo]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: TPFKAP

Flicker, whereforartthou?

[Toogeloo]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: BuJaber

[Toogeloo]

I'd probably be ok with just ending the day with TPFKAP lynch. I hate these long ass days anyways, and seriously, 75 pages is too much for a Day 1.

Watch me attract a lot of attention tonight!

[Toogeloo]

The TPFKAP lynch will basically be a policy lynch considering his flip will be almost entirely informationless.

...and people gave me a hard time for saying we should lynch the third party player.

[Toogeloo]

Why bother...

UNVOTE:
VOTE: TPFKAP

[Toogeloo]

I'm not entirely sure what the point of emphasizing the ascetic nature of your role accomplishes. Any one who tries to kill you isn't going to claim it, and why would you really care if anyone else even tried to visit you since you are third party? You are trying way too hard to be accepted by the town.

[Toogeloo]

And anyone who is "trying" to put a hole in your skull would succeed unless they themselves were blocked/redirected.

[Toogeloo]

Thanks for protecting me last night Elsa, you and I have our differences, and I may still want you dead, but at least you took care of me ^_^.

[Toogeloo]

?

are you just, uh, guessing that you were shot at or...?

Let's just say that I am 99.99% sure I was shot at last night.

[Toogeloo]

and how sure are you that elsa targeted you?

Also 99.99%

[Toogeloo]

Let me just game solve a bit for you all.

Watch me attract a lot of attention tonight!

I'm sure you can figure out the rest...

[Toogeloo]

Just a bit of Setup Spec.

I'd really be surprised if Town is more than 9 players.
Serenity Crew: Mal, Zoe, Wash, Jayne, Kaylee
Serenity Passengers: Book, Inara, Simon, River

One team of Mafia with 2 members and a Traitor is too small, so I think we are looking at at least two teams with the other team being Reavers. A team of 3 or 4 Reavers, the Hands of Blue + Traitor is 6 or 7 total Mafia. A Survivor doesn't really make much sense in both the setup or the lore, but we can visit that later. However, a Cereal Eater does in The Operative, and since the game is designed to be very unswingy due to the limited mechanics, I can totally see multiple killing actions at night.

[Toogeloo]

Spoiler: Flavor spoiler that's a big deal with the movie

It's worth noting that the Operative is actually friendly to the crew of Serenity at the end of the movie, and in the follow up comic Leaves on the Wind

The game flavor is only based on the series and the movie, and The Operative is pretty much the epitome of a Serial Killer since he kills both those loyal to the Serenity Crew and the Alliance (and Reavers). Mal and the Operative are "friendly" in the simplest form of the word considering Mal threatens to kill the Operative if they meet again.

[Toogeloo]

He gamesolves as I say I was on Cheeky last night and STILL says I healef him.

We lost him, crew. He's delusional.

[Toogeloo]

Watch me attract a lot of attention tonight!

This was me literally claiming Day 1. I swear that if Cerb is the only one that understands what it is I am saying here...

[Toogeloo]

EBWOP:

[Toogeloo]

Toogeloo claimed to activate a lightning rod effect.

ding ding ding

With a Mafia aligned lynch, the best scum could do was secure a single town kill with me last night, and hopefully I dragged out a couple one shot abilities from them as well.

[Toogeloo]

Maybe if you italicized the word "should."

[Toogeloo]

Flavor wise... I "might" be River since, ya know, everyone wants to find her and me taking action would of course make all heads turn my way.

[Toogeloo]

I kind of doubt EJ isn't ascetic, because SHE is the one that brought up the Ascetic/LR interaction in the first place.

Ya know... as a Survivor, I would totally claim to be Ascetic and Bulletproof just to try and keep as few people targeting me at night as possible. Sometimes you just need to keep up appearances.

That said, there can legit be more than one protection out there, and if EJ's Doc protects against all killing, it would be hard to imagine that another protective role would not. The only thing I can think of that would make it sticky would be an Elite Bodyguard that kills the attacker to his protection.

---

It's laughable that people would even think that a scum Lightning Rod exists let alone would claim it after Night 1. Just think about it for a moment and you'll understand just how ludicrous that would even be.

[Toogeloo]

Using the rod last night after a Mafia aligned lynch saves us at the very least one town death. I was fully expecting to die since I was hoping a Strong Man would have attacked last night.

Hopefully I'll be dead after Night 1 though, so it wont be much an issue.

[Toogeloo]

So how many killing actions are we assuming?

Possibilities include:
Hands of Blue (confirmed)
Second Mafia Team
One or More Serial Killer
One or More Town Vigilante
PGO (It's Firefly/Serenity, and I could think of quite a few characters that fit the bill, just sayin')

I'm going to assume there are at least 4 to be quite honest. The game is called OVERKILL for one, and it has the special mechanic in place so that no faction can lose more than 2 players per phase, which tells me that lots of potential to get kills at night.

---

Another possibility is that there are multiple docs/or one doc who can block all kills.

The thing I'm having trouble with here is that from a flavor perspective, there aren't many (if any) characters I would call as "Survivor" Doctors. Simon is trying to survive, sure, but he can only do with the help of the Serenity crew. To think that Simon would win the game with Alliance or Reavers or whatever is just plain stupid. The only one I would think fits is the Doctor played by Sarah Paulson reporting in regards to the PAX that killed the vast majority of colonists on Miranda and turned the rest into Reavers, but that is a real reach I think.

There are only 9 members of Serenity, which would be just barely over majority if we consider them all town, and considering limited deaths works both ways, I would almost say that a 9 player town is actually what we are looking at with multiple killing factions that can potentially cross kill. Simon is absolutely a Doc in some capacity, though he could maybe be a Jailkeeper with some lore spinning. Mal could be a Jailkeeper too, though I would consider that a pretty simplistic view of his character. In other words, I think Simon is a protective role and is aligned with town.

A lot of these thoughts are why I have a lot of trouble trusting Elsa Jay, and think there might be some lying going on either for their benefit or towns.

---

I guess I have to believe Toog is town then?

Well, don't make it sound like you are being forced. If you want to believe that a scum lightning rod exists and would claim to have used his action on Night 1, not knowing what roles exist in the game, like Cops, Watchers, Gunsmiths, Trackers, Vanillizers, Name Scanners, etc... I can't help you fight that paranoia other than to say it's a fairly long stretch to think it makes sense.

We could WIFOM the hell out of the situation too, but it does you no good. Am I a Godfather Lightning Rod (lolbroken)?

You take what I say and believe it, or don't. If I'm still alive at end game, maybe start to question it then.

---

The Operative could be a lyncher targeting River, now that I think a little bit more about his character, but he's probably not a Serial Killer. He murders a bunch of alliance goons/doctors, but he lets Mal/Inara go fairly easily early and

Spoiler: plot

the only crew deaths he actually causes are pretty accidental.

Well, just because he was unsuccessful doesn't change the nature of his character. Book wasn't really accidental for sure.

[Toogeloo]

I tried to beat you to it with my 4 kills guess, but I had to refresh and respond to your Operative post.

[Toogeloo]

Oh, we can almost assuredly be sure we have 4 killing roles.

No wonder he thought adding a Neutral Doc was a good idea.

That shit is ridiculous.

The thing is that it literally doesn't matter because no one faction can lose more than 2 members per phase. You might mitigate a little, or me soaking up everything might mitigate a little, but we're never going to have a full on massacre I think.

[Toogeloo]

Anyways, Jingle, I think you (and I) need to stop with the flavor speculation. If anything, it's making me want to lynch Elsa more and question your alignment since you keep trying to shade some of the characters who should be exactly what we expect them to be.

I think that roles will be intentionally ambiguous since the mod decided to redact our flavor, we wouldn't want to be able to guess who we are just by seeing our ability.

The only thing that's pertinent is that we know for certain there is a two man mafia team that had a traitor, which is far too small of a mafia team for a game this size, and would require another team or multiple serial killers.

/tinfoilhaton
If town is literally the only faction who doesn't have flavor, then I think it almost assuredly makes Chikadee a strong town lean, and I would almost guess that Elsa Jay actually is town aligned and been lying to keep themselves alive by claiming a positive utility that no one would want lynched but near impossible to kill.
/tinfoilhatoff

[Toogeloo]

The thing I'm having trouble with here is that from a flavor perspective, there aren't many (if any) characters I would call as "Survivor" Doctors. Simon is trying to survive, sure, but he can only do with the help of the Serenity crew. To think that Simon would win the game with Alliance or Reavers or whatever is just plain stupid. The only one I would think fits is the Doctor played by Sarah Paulson reporting in regards to the PAX that killed the vast majority of colonists on Miranda and turned the rest into Reavers, but that is a real reach I think.

There's the alliance doc killed at the beginning of the movie, and if it WAS needed for balance that makes a ton of sense.

There is literally no way you sell to me that a member of the alliance who was torturing River would work with town just to survive.

Oh, and...

VOTE: BuJaber

...since I think we should just pick up where we left off yesterday ^_^

[Toogeloo]

Toog are you compulsive? If not why did you choose to turn it on N1?

Not Compulsive.
Because we lynched non-town on Day 1 which means that two town could have died during the night phase. Best way I could do something about that was to use my ability while we still had protection in the game.

[Toogeloo]

You want to know why AND improve the accuracy of your reads this game? I'm town. The counterwagon to a traitor flip. Even if we assume scum didn't know the traitor, a town counterwagon to another town wagon? Scum voted me.

In a multi-ball game, that's never how it works. Scum only care if it's "not them."

[Toogeloo]

Tora+Elsa scum team, setting up a play as a mafia doctor? Thoughts?

I've suspected for a while that there isn't a Neutral Survivor Ascetic Bulletproof Doctor from a flavor or setup standpoint, so it wouldn't take much to convince me.

Publically claiming Doc in multiball as scum would be incredibly dangerous. Especially publically claiming Doc that town has to lynch before endgame.

Yes and no... Elsa has put so many contingencies on their role that make them extremely unenticing to take action against at night. Scum in multiball know it's multiball, so it's feasible that a lie gamble might be just enough to put some attention elsewhere.

Join mine first. I'll join yours one McMenno actually engages with the game/makes it easier to sort him.

There's a little too much stank on your wagon atm.

I like Thor, so I'm willing to back him up here.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Nancy Drew Toranagate

[Toogeloo]

@Mod: Were scum given flavor for their characters, or are all players flavor redacted?

[Toogeloo]

Actually, never mind. Let me rephase.

Are only town aligned players the ones without role flavor?

[Toogeloo]

This is important because the role pm from the traitor specifically states town players have had their flavor redacted. It seems to be added so that we can't just auto-confirm Chickadee (e.g.) for claiming to not know who they are, because scum know we don't know who we are. Why? Because apparently the Neutral Ascetic Bulletproof Survivor Doctor doesn't know who they are either, and 3p are not aligned with town.

[Toogeloo]

Idk how useful this is but it's still bugging me that Toog is alive with no valid explanation.

I'll be honest, while I'd rather not look a gift horse in the mouth, I fully expected to be dead today as well. I was really hoping for a Strongman or something to take me out and lose their shot against their original target. However, the simplest explanations are quite frequently the most likely, and that is that there is more than one protective role out there, or Elsa isn't Ascetic as he claims to be (which I don't agree with mod ruling on, but that's neither here nor there).

---

Toogeloo (unfortunately)

Awww... you wound me. I'll be completely candid in that I really wanted your lynch yesterday because of you just being "not town," so that I could use my role after a non-town flip and only worry about one potential town death. I don't believe your claim is exactly what you say it is, but now it's a matter of deciding where I feel you actually are in the game, and since I no longer care about my role and your role interaction, I'm not going to push you nearly as vehemently as I did yesterday. You'll get yours in some way, some how.

---

in all of the games I've played with nicorobin and their alts I have never actually seen them do anything of substance... isn't that impressive

My only experience with Nico was the last multiball game I played which a few of you were privy to in which Nico rolled Scum but spent all of Day 1 defending themselves and stating that their lurkiness is a town tell, then replaced out and flipped scum on Day 2's lynch.

[Toogeloo]

Also, thinking on setup a bit more, the lack of flavor really favors the idea that town is only 9 members. Town is the crew of Serenity, of which there is really only 9, and that means that there are no available fake claims to give to scum either, so rather than expand the township to characters like Mr Universe or other "allies," it seems that the crew is fully accounted for here, and then everyone else is antagonistic to their survival.

[Toogeloo]

I feel obligated to point out that if there are only 9 town aligned players in the game, that means almost half the game is not town aligned, so the amount of "town hunting" going on seems rather odd considering you can practically point your finger at two different players and more than likely one is scum.

[Toogeloo]

Really, Day Flavor Cop in a setup where town doesn't know their own role?
So... who'd you scan Day 1?

Pretty sure we can all lynch Chickadee now. For laughs, I was scum flavor cop in my last game (check my wiki). The memories.

[Toogeloo]

Alright, humor me. What pictures did you get today. Describe them.

[Toogeloo]

I mean it's pretty convenient that the only other person you scanned got lynched same day, so yeah.

[Toogeloo]

Don't spend too much time on Google looking for something.

[Toogeloo]

The hilarity of it is that your claim can't possibly clear Nico either. You said you scanned TPFKAP and saw the "HoB guys," which means you didn't see Dobson, which no reasonable person would be able to ascertain that a picture of HoB guys = Dobson, yet you claim with certainty that Nico is River.

[Toogeloo]

I got a trailer for the movie and another video solely about river and Simon.

I’m getting ready for work now but I’ll ask mod if I can share my exact results.

Oh, you mean like this:

[Toogeloo]

I feel like people are too willing to just hand wave a lot of the events going on in the game. So if we are going to just stop giving a crap about certain players because other players vouch for them, can we all just agree everyone is town and the game is over?

Here's my list of people I don't want lynched.
Jingle
Jingle's buddy
Thor
Reasonably Rational

I couldn't care less about anyone else and am willing to wagon the shit out of them if it means we can at least stop believing people at face value. Lots of AtE, "too scummy to be scum," and "Let's sort it later," shit going on.

[Toogeloo]

I'm on Nancy Drew Toranagate. I'll get on Mala if the wagon is actually serious and going some where, but it's essentially a counter to NDS at the moment and has the person I am voting to lynch on it. I don't just flip my vote willy nilly though, so I don't just want to get on Mala and then everyone be like, "nah," and move to the next vanity wagon.

[Toogeloo]

Please elaborate on how you're managing to hold those two thoughts in your head at the same time, and even expressing them in one post.

I town read Jingle, ergo I believe him.

[Toogeloo]

What sbout Menno?

What about Menno? Is he relevant, or are you asking me if I'd switch to Menno?

[Toogeloo]

Me on the other hand... I'm ready to go full steam ahead. Get a claim, or don't, and lynch it and let's move along. We're averaging 50 pages a day phase currently, which is too much imo since it starts to cause disinterest for any except those who are either intentionally flooding the topic or are super gung ho.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Malakitty

[Toogeloo]

You guys realize that Malakitty will never be night killed unless we have a town vigilante do it, right? She's scum who works better with Mafia than he does with Town. She also directly opposes our town wincon, so she needs to be lynched at some point for us to even win the game, nothing like Elsa's wincon. She has no positive town utility, like Doctor. She's been extremely weak on activity, and has made no promise to pick it up. Why even entertain keeping her alive?

Should we just mass claim at this point and pick the worst power among us to lynch? We've had 2 ridiculous claims so far, what are we even waiting for at this stage?

(And no, Jaber, I am not interested in voting Menno).

[Toogeloo]

Way to put words in my mouth. You’re believing elsa’s Claim at face value. We don’t even know what his win coniditon says.
Tbh I was actually extremely busy during D1 which is zero but it happened

I never said I've believed Elsa's claim. In fact quite the opposite. Mob mentality was to keep him alive for the positive utility and activity, and the fact that they can at least win with us. Your claim offers absolutely none of that, and your wincon directly counters ours. RR's solution is that scum shoots Mal at night and eliminates you as a problem all together, but Mal could be (and likely is) Bulletproof or may never get shot.

You also expect US to take your claim at face value as well, and you could just simply be mafia or worse 3p scum than lyncher.

[Toogeloo]

We have the opportunity here to take out two anti-town players before a real night happens. Why are we wasting that?

[Toogeloo]

i'm confused as to where you get the second anti-town from here.

TPFKAP and MalaKitty.

[Toogeloo]

For the record, I do not have any flavor between the 1 and 2 RR was looking for.

My Role PM is simply...
"You are

[REDACTED]

. You are a

Lightning Rod

.

[Explanation of Lightning Rod]

. You win when all threats to the Serenity Crew are gone."

I am not Compulsive.

I'll also happily lynch any 3rd party claim, but that's not the same as actively hunting for 3rd party.

[Toogeloo]

It's heavily paraphrased. It should be fine.

[Toogeloo]

Marvel is usually better than DC character wise though.

As a huge Marvel Fanboy, I actually have to disagree. I think DC is much better at telling individual character stories, but Marvel does a much better job at stories in general and working the team angle. I love X-Men, Avengers, and Fantastic Four way more than I like Justice League for example, but I think that Batman and Superman are way better characters than any individual member of said teams. That being said, I love Spider-Man and Punisher and find them to be the best stand-alone Marvel Heroes, and on par (or better in some instances) than most of the stand-alones of DC.

---
Now can we get on with a lynch. I'm bored.

[Toogeloo]

@)Humble request to Almost: if Robin doesnt post game-relevant content in say 24 hours, I feel a replacement is necessary considering all the prod dodges with no real content from the slot.

Or we can just flash wagon the slot and be done with it all together. We've been pussy footing around all day, had plenty of "shady" players in sights, and for whatever reason no one cares to actually seal the deal on anything.

[Toogeloo]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: NicoRobin

Let's go. Kill it with Fire and Brimstone. Charge! All aboard who's comin' aboard. They can take away our lives, but they can never take away our freedom. Rock, sometime when the team is up against it and the breaks are beating the boys, tell them to go out there with all they've got and win just one for the Gipper.

Hoozah.

[Toogeloo]

You put WAY too much faith in Chichadee's claim.

I'll totes do a NDS lynch, but c'mon, we all know how this is going to go. We'll get the wagon to -2, something'll get said, everyone will jump off, and we'll reconvene here again in 2 days.

[Toogeloo]

To put it bluntly, I have zero faith in this town to make a decision today at this rate.

[Toogeloo]

PS: Toog, you're on thin ice already with how youve acted since day one. Don't do something stupid.

You quickhammered once, and while it was a traitor, that shit isn't forgotten.

Like you are in any position to throw shade on my slot. Be a good little town lap dog and do as the big boys say, m'kay?

I feel like there must be scum in the claims somewhere because I'm town clearing/town reading too many people now.

The light is being seen. It starts now!

[Toogeloo]

Opportunistic much?

Absotivley.

[Toogeloo]

Good luck with that wagon bro.

[Toogeloo]

Good luck with that wagon bro.

Thanks!

I sense I'm going to need it XD

About as much as I would need with my current vote.

This town is just so damn wishy-washy, trying to find that "perfect" lynch when it's already got multiple 3rd Party claims, one that has a wincon that directly opposes town's. People far too trusting of the claims in the game. Actions speak louder than words, but apparently not in this game. FTR, I will hammer any slot that gets to L-1 at this point, even those I town read. We've had enough claims, seriously, it's basically just an extended Day 1, can we lynch the worst thing at this point?

---

VOTE: Toog

The fact your calling me a lapdog but until your claim I was more townread then you speaks volumes.

And even if I'm a lapdog... My bite hurts like a bitch. And you about to get to full fucking bite.

Aww, aren't you cute. Anyone town reading you is being facetious because they aren't town reading anyone else. You've voluntarily leashed yourself to us because you have to, and as of right now the status quo recommends it. Your "bite" means very little in the grand scheme of things however, and you're only good to us so long as we continue to keep townies alive.

[Toogeloo]

So if your gonna hammer any slot at L-1, will you hammer your own as well?

If I actually get to L-1 and me doing so prevents the game from stalling, I totally would.

---
Jingle, you and Gamma are Masons, correct? You two are probably my highest town reads at the moment, I need to check my sanity though.

---
Thor is a god.

Thuuuuuuunder!

---
That is all. Everyone else exhausts me.

Oh, and...
UNVOTE:
...since even before I voted I knew that wagon wasn't going anywhere.

[Toogeloo]

Gonna go back here for now.

VOTE: Nancy Drew Toranagate

[Toogeloo]

If I actually get to L-1 and me doing so prevents the game from stalling, I totally would.

I feel obligated to point out that this only applies to this day phase (the phase in which I claimed I would hammer anything at L-1). I'd rather not risk assumptions otherwise since I feel like Elsa is being obtuse and antagonistic here.

[Toogeloo]

Jingle, you and Gamma are Masons, correct? You two are probably my highest town reads at the moment, I need to check my sanity though.

No comment.

mhm, mhm... /wink

[Toogeloo]

People's reponse to Ari's Chaotic Neutral claim just proves to me that comprehension and interpretation is off the scales bad this game.

We all need to start talking under the impression that those reading our posts are five year olds.

[Toogeloo]

"Supposedly Town"
Toogeloo - Lightning Rod
Chickadee - Day Photo Flavor Cop
Jingle - Mason
Gamma - Mason
Flicker - Priest
Tails - Serenity Trailer and Simon/River clip from Chickadee

Not aligned with town
Malakitty - Bulletproof Lyncher looking for Malcolm Reynolds
Elsa Jay - Ascetic Bulletproof Doctor Survivor

Known Scum
TPFKAP - Traitor aligned with Hands of Blue.

---
Just a few more claims and we'll have mass claimed before a night kill ever happens.

[Toogeloo]

Yep, I fail the interwebs.

[Toogeloo]

Of the claims, I still would rather Lynch Chickadee tbqh.

The biggest fundamental flaw with Chickadee's claim is that it requires someone familiar with the flavor to interpret it. Imagine signing up for this game with zero flavor knowledge. Maybe you just liked the player list or something. And then the mod tells you that you have to figure out your own reults based on random images.Tha's game solving inside of game solving, Inception levels of difficulty.

[Toogeloo]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Chickadee

Between my previous reasoning, the claim fumbling timeline issues, and various other aspects, there's too much stink on this slot.

[Toogeloo]

Plus he is literally Mason hunting.

Yep, sorry, I'll try not to game solve in the future. I should have just posted that in the mafia pt.

[Toogeloo]

I'm pretty sure he's a Lightning Rod. I don't think it's a town one.

I'm sorry for the quiet night 1.

You're right though. I'm a Bulletproof Ninja Godfather Lightning Rod. Used my ability Night 1 with very little info to go on, and open claimed it start of the day knowing all my passives woul protect me from unknown roles.

I do have a second use, but it can't be used back to back nights. Maybe they'll get me next time.

[Toogeloo]

Plus he is literally Mason hunting.

Yep, sorry, I'll try not to game solve in the future. I should have just posted that in the mafia pt.

When the plan was for me to stay hidden? That’s not gamesolving, that’s unnecessary outing of Town PRs.

Maybe get up your partner's ass for inviting people to figure it out. I at least made sure everyone was on the same page,because if I can figure it out on my own, imagine what multiple players can piece together.

[Toogeloo]

I live in the Twilight Zone.

I vote Nico/Tails, and I get a massive wagon on me for being opportunistic in the face of an "inno scan."
I come back to the game to find a wagon on Nico/Tails.

I'm sure I'm still scum somehow though.

[Toogeloo]

In case both GE and I die tonight, Thor has high equity to be the other HoB.

I'd argue Chickadee does with that ridiculous claim, but I guess we just wait and see.

[Toogeloo]

If Tails flips town, we can't both die, because only one town will be able to be killed tonight.

If we assume multiple killing roles, why would we think only 1 town could die tn regardless of lynch?

Nico/Thor interactions are intriguing tho!

There is a two kill per faction limit per cycle.

[Toogeloo]

2 Death* rather.

It's why I used LR last night. Since a non town was lynched, up to 2 town could be night killed, so it seemed optimal to reduce that to possibly just 1.

[Toogeloo]

I'm busy until October 30th, just keeping up with reading for now. We need more flips and less dead horse kicking. 100+ pages is tiring for a game only in Day 2.

[Toogeloo]

I'm here. I'm alive. Just did a cross country road trip to uproot the family and move to WashDC.

UNVOTE:

[Toogeloo]

Jingle, your partner is voting the BG claim over the vengeful claim. Thoughts?

[Toogeloo]

Ugh idk if I should hammer or not. I haven’t really like tails or NR all game

Given your claim, do you need to be on the wagon in order to win? I'd think you'd be on basically every wagon possible if you did.

[Toogeloo]

If we never Lynch you, you are effectively a VT, right?

[Toogeloo]

I'm getting the distinct feeling that there isn't actually a lot of wonky power heaviness in this setup. With Elsa lying, I'm going to assume he lied about the Ascetic portion of his role as well and actually did protect me last night.

I think that Tails is a bad venge shot, and think BuJaber or Light Ethos might be better shots, but if you can only kill someone on your wagon, use your best judgement I guess.

VOTE: Ari

[Toogeloo]

BuJaber
CheekyTeeky
Light Ethos
Chara

That's where I would probably put a bullet.

PEdit: If Ari is who I think he is, he has an opportunity to remove one anti town element from the game, and with a bit of intellectual and savvy gameplay, possibly shoot a scum in the process. There's also the possibility he's just plain scum too, but if he's basically useless power unless he's lynched, he should really have the final say in what or how he goes about using his power. Since he's already condoned his Lynch, it's safe to assume he wants this route as well.

[Toogeloo]

I forgot Nancy as a good shot as well.

Ari is L-2 not L-1.
Need Nancy Drew and Light Ethos on the same wagon of either Tails or Ari, or someone to swap wagons.

[Toogeloo]

We have 16 people, it takes 9 to Lynch, and both wagons are at 7 with Nancy and Light off both wagons.

[Toogeloo]

Day Cop Jingle or Gamma, clear two slots.

[Toogeloo]

i'm doubting Toog used his lightning rod again.

I did specify non-consecutive.

[Toogeloo]

If Elsa isn't weak, why would she lose her BP hiding behind Thor?

---

By this, it becomes confirmable that none of Gamma, Flicker, or I can be HoB2.

I'd like to think that I should be lumped in here as well since my claim doesn't really make sense if I were actually a Jailkeeper, unless you believe that I stopped a kill and then opted to claim Lightning Rod when I saw no other kills happened and figured that maybe any other tracks/watches/cops/other wouldn't incriminate me down the line.

---

Maybe Mr. Universe if we have 10 town?

Why can't Chickadee be Role Cop? I still stand by my assertion that River makes a better Lightning Rod than any other role.

---

So, who’s been pushing Chick?

I pushed Chick, and still continue to have some issue with the slot. For one, a lot of the convenient portions of the claim, for another the fact that it seems really mean that the mod would put a role in the game that requires actual flavor knowledge to possibly interpret results. On top of that, I'm not entirely sure why the mod would allow video results be shared and not breach any rules about sharing moderator PMs.

---

I think the vig claiming now would be a bad idea because then the doc/Simon would have to protect us and the vig - if there is one.

Personally, I don't think we have a vig. I think Ari was our "vig."

[Toogeloo]

Actually...

Why in the hell would there even be a non-weak Hider with a BP vest in the first place. That whole thing just seems ludicrous.

[Toogeloo]

Why can't Chickadee be Role Cop? I still stand by my assertion that River makes a better Lightning Rod than any other role.

EBWOP: Why can't Chickadee be Mr. Universe?

[Toogeloo]

Important: There is a chance the game may end before you can accomplish your mission, so choose your victims wisely.

Guys what is this????

Seems like typical SK reminder.

If Mafia ever outnumbers the remaining town players, it's usually just an end game scenario since Mafia controls the lynches, and barring magic bullet shenanigans, can usually win the eventual numbers game. SKs can only win by being the last man standing, so some reduction in other team numbers is always of importance to their game.

Given the HoB and Traitor flip wincons, it's a fairly reasonable possibility that even though any non-town factions are not technically aligned, they do likely possess the ability to win with each other once all crew members are dead, which makes it even more imperative that SK scum hunt to ensure their win con goes unimpeded.

[Toogeloo]

So, if I were to believe every claim as being true, my setup speculation would be as follows...

Venger - Jayne (likes to harm)
Rod - River (everyone wants her)
Mason - Wash (married)
Mason - Zoe (married)
BG - Simon (protection)
Priest - Book (prefers not to harm)
Enabler - Kaylee (keeps the ship running)
Cop - Mr Universe (watches streams on everything in the verse)
Hider - Inara (prostitute, so she would be spending nights with people)
??? - Malcom Reynolds

HoB1 - Team 1
HoB2 - Team 1
Traitor - HoB aligned

Reaver - SK

Lyncher - Niska

Slot 16 and 17... unknown...

When I rodded on Night 1, it's fairly reasonable to assume that at least one HoB was using their J/K role, which would account for my not dying Night 1. I think otherwise, it's a fairly power-lite game.

[Toogeloo]

If I were to guess on the final two slots though... possibly another town member in Badger, and Independent Faction possibilities of Saffron and/or The Operative all seem reasonable as somewhat major characters.

[Toogeloo]

1 post in over 24 hours? Are we just resigned to lynching Tails, cuz he's kinda low priority in my opinion. I'd much rather lynch the compulsive liar Elsa personally, but anyone from this list seems better to me:

Elsa
CheekyTeeky
RightKnight
Chara
Malakitten

It's mostly PoE from my perspective, with malakitten thrown on because they can't win unless we throw them a bone and figure out who Mal 100% is. Digging deeper, I'd throw in...

Chickadee
Reasonably Rational
Tails

...but that's pretty much the end of my "to lynch" list.

[Toogeloo]

Top half isn't really "ordered" it's just my PoE + Malakittens.

[Toogeloo]

Bottom 3 names are people I think could possibly be town, or I heavily town read (RR), but paranoia due to multi-ball or claim oddities doesn't give me 100% confidence.

[Toogeloo]

VOTE: Tails

[Toogeloo]

You don't really get an opinion Malakitty.

@RR, Literally nothing of consequence has happened since Friday, and there is zero counter play to the Tails wagon. Shade much? You are one of my town reads, but it's getting a little old that you preface every EoD with, "if we die, look here."

[Toogeloo]

Elaborate on your Cheeky and Chara town reads. I don't understand them at all.

[Toogeloo]

I would like BuJaber, Toog, Math/Nancy to full claim first.

I'm already full claimed, and as of today I'm pretty much just a Vanilla Bean.

I'm nothing more than a Lightning Rod for those of you thinking I was a JoaT or some such.

[Toogeloo]

Mala in fact shouldn't claim more before massclaim, because she has literally no reason to lie at this point. If she can help find scum she will do so because doing so means she wins. If not, she's really not a threat.

If Malakitty is truthful about being a lyncher, they can't coexist with town's wincon, so we'd literally have to discern who Malcolm Reynolds is and lynch them so Malakitty can win, or lynch Malakitty.

[Toogeloo]

Niska makes the most sense as a Reynolds Lyncher imo.

I do not have any additional flavor, not even the tidbit about being a member of the Serenity Crew after the redacted part. My theory on this is that only 5 people have that tidbit, Mal, Zoe, Wash, Kaylee, and Jayne since they are the actual crew compliment of the Serenity.

[Toogeloo]

I'll also point out that the sample PM doesn't have the same crew line.

[Toogeloo]

is this true?

There are 9 main characters to the show, but of those 9, only 5 are actually crew to the Serenity while the other 4 are passengers. Any potential town members past those 9 aren't really associated with the Serenity tbqh, and are just associated with the crew itself.

Crew:
Captain - Malcolm Reynolds
First Mate - Zoe Washburn
Pilot - Hoban Washburn (aka Wash)
Engineer - Kaylee Frye
Security - Jayne Cobb

Passengers:
Inara Serra (comes and goes, is a prostitute)
Sheperd Derrial Book (Preacher who likes to advise Mal)
Simon Tam (a doctor who's only wishes are to protect his sister from the Alliance)
River Tam (on the run with her brother, she's "special" in many ways)

Aligned with Reynolds specifically, and not members of the crew or passengers on the ship:
Mr Universe (from the movie, he basically watches live streams of everything going on in the verse)
Badger (basically a contact for unscrupulous jobs for the Serenity crew)

So, my belief is that "Crew" of Serenity specifically means the former five characters, and any other town aligned players will fall into the latter four to six (or so) characters.

[Toogeloo]

There is a case to be made that a 6th member of the crew could exist in the form of Bester since he was the original Engineer before Kaylee took over, but his role is so minor that it's hard to be convinced it would exist in the game at all.

[Toogeloo]

I think Toogeloo should specifically claim the modifiers of his LR. Like, was it non-consecutive or a 1-shot?

I've already done so, as people continuously seem to glaze over that fact.

I claimed LR beginning of Day 2 and that I had used the ability Night 1.
Midway through Day 2, I claimed that I was non-consecutive.
Day 4, I claimed that I am officially a Vanilla.

To be completely candid though, I did not actually have a second shot, I was just being intentionally vague for misdirection purposes. A multi-shot LR is a bit OP imo, and rather surprised anyone would even think I had more than 1 shot.


---
I don't understand why we aren't just lynching Malakitten at this point. We have no evidence that other factions exist right now, so rather than hunt for Malcolm Reynolds and just start lynching town, why are we not lynching the only known counter to the town win-con? If Mala is lynched and the game ends, then sorry, not sorry for lynching Malakitty, but maybe they shouldn't have exposed their non-town win-con role. If Mala is lynched and game continues, then we know further scum elements exist.

VOTE: Malakitty

[Toogeloo]

We have a small baseline for Chickadee's scans with two flips so far. I'm not understanding the connections myself, or even how the ability really works, or why a role that requires flavor knowledge to successfully play exists. That being said, with Tails flipping HoB, and that faction "I assume" completely neutralized, there's no reason to assume that Chick was protecting Tails slot.

[Toogeloo]

RR - That actually sounds a lot like you're Mal. At least to me it does. Makes sense Mal would have the most flavor. No one else seems to have that level of flavor. My role pm doesnt have any flavor. Not even about being part of the crew. And Mal being captain would make sense with checking on his crew/family.

Sounds more like Inara tbqh. She views the crew as family and she has her own private "chamber" aboard the Serenity.

---

Is Simon the only doc in the story? Didn’t someone say there were multiple docs - not in the game but either in the series/movie?

Simon is the only Serenity aligned doctor of the series. All other doctors are of the Alliance.

---

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/imag ... N-uThDpaq3

Dr. Caron

Alliance Doctor, and has no affiliation what so ever with Serenity. She wouldn't even know of their existence.

[Toogeloo]

I'd be down with a RK lynch. They've been one of my suspected slots since Day 1, and that Chick scan would indicate either Doctor Mathias, the Alliance Doctor who was experimenting on River before Simon saved her, or The Operative who was viewing the video, and is still a threat to Serenity. Neither looks good. The third possibility is that RK is Simon and that's how he found River when he saved her.

I was thinking as Enabler for Doctor, Kaylee might have made sense since the two have feelings for each other, but that RK scan doesn't resonate Kaylee at all in any way.
---

Possible connections...
Jayne - Ari
River - Toog / Chick
Book - Flicker
Inara - RR
Wash / Zoe - Jingle / Gamma
Mal - BuJ / Toog
Kaylee - BuJ
Simon - ???
Mr Universe - Chick


If I were 100% certain that I was Malcolm Reynolds, I would advocate my lynch today simply due to our huge upper hand, my powers being used up, and giving Malakitty an exit, but without 100% certainty, I don't want to just start lynching townies hoping to eventually hit Malcolm Reynolds, especially if Reynolds has a Guardian Angel and can't be lynched/killed one time.

[Toogeloo]

UNVOTE:

Totally down for RK, Elsa, or Mala.

[Toogeloo]

I'm a man of conviction.

Plus there's a reason why "Lynch all Liars," exists.

[Toogeloo]

As you unvote me.

I have nothing against you personally, nor do I have anything against Elsa personally. But I've been playing Mafia for over a decade and the theory when I started was always "lynch anyone who doesn't share the same win-con as you, they don't have the same interests in heart."

If we could 100% discern the identity of Malcolm Reynolds, I'd be 100% on board with getting you your win, but you showed your hand too early, and now it's more of a handicap to try and get you your win and still game solve and get the town win.

[Toogeloo]

Yeah, so I somehow never get lynched despite that saying existing because I'm somehow never the biggest problem.

I'm only one person, and thankfully for you though I add a different school of thought to the game, I am not able to remove you on my own. I also am wise enough to know that you'll get sorted in due course, one way or another.

[Toogeloo]

VOTE: RightKnight

[Toogeloo]

I'm not sure why you got upset CT. I think aside from me putting you in my PoE pool, and RR dropping your name as a down the road option, literally no one has expressed interest in lynching your slot, and many even call you obvtown.

The only lynches today are RK, Elsa, or Mala, each for very different reasons, and of those reasons, Mala's is the weakest case, so we should really be deciding between LAL and removing Elsa, or the questionable scan results of RK.

[Toogeloo]

I think if Kaylee was an enabler she would make more sense enabling any role aside from doc really.

It's not a stretch really. Kaylee and Simon are intertwined, and in the movie Simon even says his only regret was not being with Kaylee romantically. That being said, I don't understand how Chick's scan could even remotely be a link to Kaylee.

[Toogeloo]

I still think RK is the best choice here. That scan is pretty sketch, and if there is only one killing player/faction left, it'd probably be The Operative.

[Toogeloo]

I disagree a bit on the flavor assignments myself. I for one am almost certain that RR is Inara with the whole "chamber" portion of the flavor claim.

[Toogeloo]

So... if I were to guess.


Mal - BuJaber
Zoe - Gamma
Wash - Jingle
Jayne - Aristotle
Simon - Cheeky
River - Toogeloo
Inara - RR
Book - Flickr
Kaylee - Chara
Mr Universe - Chickadee

[Toogeloo]

Whoops, I might have swapped BuJ and Chara. Kind of hard to remember all the claims.

[Toogeloo]

I would never have considered Inara a Lightning Rod lol.

[Toogeloo]

I would consider this game a flawless victory. We only lynched Aristotle so that he could actually use his ability. The other lynch option that day was a HoB member, and who knows how long Light Ethos would have gone on in the game had we not taken the action we did.

[Toogeloo]

One thing that I think needs addressing A50, is that you basically encouraged us to flavor game by removing our flavor in an attempt to get us to not flavor game. Town needed a few Vanilla in order for Scum to have a bit more safety in their claims. I do like the off the wall roles since that could also encourage some wild roles to be thought up, like Enabler, scum to hide in, but role madness allowed for town to discern the identities of players simply based on their powers. I only had 3 players wrong in my flavor spec before you announced it, and if you are trying to hide our identities before our flips, then there definitely needed to be more room for doubt in who was what role.

[Toogeloo]

I would also consider adding a rule in regards to how much of our role we are allowed to share.

Discussion about how roles were formatted played pretty predominantly during the game, so if you wanted to nip that in the bud, you could just simply add a rule that no discussion of role pms be allowed at all, and have the sample town role pm placed at the beginning, and that be the end of it.

[Toogeloo]

I do feel bad for Malakitty now that everything is revealed and I am reviewing with an unbiased look. With the Seraph Knight, and the restriction that Malcolm couldn't die at night, I'd argue that Malakitty had the hardest wincon in the game. I think at the very least, they should have been informed of who Malcolm Reynolds was.

[Toogeloo]

Toog you may have been another one I kinda snapped at.

Don't. Part of my playstyle is that I tend to antagonize a bit and speak bluntly. It's just one of my charms both in game and in real life. I try to make sure I don't make things personal, but I know I am an ass.

[Toogeloo]

Just .. |A Blood-Thirsty Sylvester Stallone" themed game. Characters Mr Stallone played in his long career. You all get to be Sylvester.

[Toogeloo]