Overkill 1: Serenity/Firefly (GAME OVER)


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Post Post #479 (isolation #0) » Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:19 am

Post by Thor665 »

1 day and 20 pages?

Yeah - I'm skipping all of that.
Off of Page 1 I liked Elsa and Toranaga.
Is anyone in quickMjolnir range yet?
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Post Post #481 (isolation #1) » Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:23 am

Post by Thor665 »

Then let's give someone that power;

Vote:Reasonably Rational
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Post Post #484 (isolation #2) » Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:24 am

Post by Thor665 »

So off RR's own personal count that's L-2-3?
Let's get another vote!

Pedit: @randommidget - because town hasn't put someone to L-1 to force a claim yet. Want to help out? We're random wagoning the random guy.
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Post Post #509 (isolation #3) » Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:29 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 499, Reasonably Rational wrote:
In post 497, Flicker wrote:VOTE: BuJaber

I don't like how he's shading RR without voting them and trying to push through a lynch so quickly when we have more than 13 days left to make a decision. I also know from having followed much of Secret Hitler that he can seem really towny and reasonable while actually being top scum (i.e. Hitler).
To be fair, I'm at L-2 now, and they expressed awareness of the risk of putting me at L-1.

-Cerb
How do you feel about Flicker potentially mischaracterizing BuJaber while defending your slot?
In post 507, Chickadee wrote:I don't get the RR wagon. It's far too flimsy to have this many votes.
What do you consider to be a solid wagon at this stage?
What are you doing to make a solid wagon that deserves a lot of votes?
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Post Post #511 (isolation #4) » Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:31 am

Post by Thor665 »

Any game that can have 20 pages of RVS in 24 hours needs some dead bodies.
Anyone who doesn't see that is being silly.
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Post Post #517 (isolation #5) » Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:56 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 512, Chickadee wrote:I just think it's too early to be pushing people to claims on flimsy reasoning. The more roles we push out, the more it helps scum.
Meh.
I'd support a total massclaim Day 1 and would consider it pro-town even with the Overkill in the title.
Also - what about the reasoning do you find particularly flimsy?
In post 513, Reasonably Rational wrote: We left RVS on post 5 or whatever, whenever RC made his mason claim and people voted him for it. Claiming otherwise is simply disingenuous.
Awesome!
What is your solid and non-RVS top case then?
If you don't have one I'm going to feel like you're blowing smoke up my butt.
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Post Post #519 (isolation #6) » Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:58 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 516, Toranaga wrote:I hate thor's comment on RVS too. I'm not sure it's alignment indicative for him, but it's weirdly disingenuous and not a real thought he had.
What makes you think that?
Pretty sure I've always been on open record that Day 1 in a Large is trash posting.
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Post Post #524 (isolation #7) » Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:09 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 521, Toranaga wrote:well it's not. there's a ton of information in this thread and some people are strong hitting their town metas so far from what I know of their games. you were making reads here yourself. I don't get your RVS comment, it's wrong and IDK what to make of it. feels like criticizing things for the sake of it.
There's a ton of info, but functionally mining it in a real way is pretty meaningless. It's trash until we get flips. To get flips we need deaths. Ergo - let's move on, or are you claiming we need more than 20 pages of info at this stage to get a flip? Do we need 40? 80? 7,543? All of them have "info" but at what point does town malaise and empty signals overcome the claimed "info" benefit?
I submit it's *WAY* earlier than you think it is.

I disagree that I'm making reads. I'm just trying to get people to say some things so I can make reads later.

You didn't answer my question of why you think I don't believe what I'm saying. You're successfully stating why you believe what you think about the quality of these pages - but I didn't ask that.
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Post Post #525 (isolation #8) » Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:10 am

Post by Thor665 »

I mean, if you think attacking something for the sake of attacking it is an issue...I think I just proved you're doing exactly that.
Self vote?
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Post Post #528 (isolation #9) » Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:18 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 526, Toranaga wrote:
In post 479, Thor665 wrote:1 day and 20 pages?

Yeah - I'm skipping all of that.
Off of Page 1 I liked Elsa and Toranaga.
Is anyone in quickMjolnir range yet?
is this not making reads, thor?
Yeah...are you trying to argue those are particularly valuable reads?
In post 527, Toranaga wrote:
In post 524, Thor665 wrote:
You didn't answer my question of why you think I don't believe what I'm saying. You're successfully stating why you believe what you think about the quality of these pages - but I didn't ask that.
I don't think you believe what you're saying because you're intelligent
Awesome, now you're just empty insulting me for my stance rather than answering my question functionally?
So, basically, you disagree with my stance, and I'm stupid for having it if I believe it - therefore I'm lying.
I have a new read on you now :lol:
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Post Post #532 (isolation #10) » Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:30 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 481, Thor665 wrote:Then let's give someone that power;

Vote:Reasonably Rational
@Mod

In post 530, Toranaga wrote:20 pages of RVS is objectively untrue and taken by the fact you were drawing leans from page 1, you know this

I'm not insulting you. I'd be insulting you if I didn't take issue with you.
By this point you're now starting to debate a definition with me to take umbrage at my statement, yeah?
What if instead of saying RVS I'd said 'Day 1 blather'? Would your point still hold?
If your answer is no - what's your actual issue here?
In post 529, Reasonably Rational wrote:With regards to your previous question about my top non-RVS case: I'll let my other head catch up and discuss things with him to see where he stands. His RC position is a valid one that I largely agree with. The logic used by Cheeky to push Toranaga resonates with me still, even if she's been assuaged. I do dislike Elsa's reasons for their votes. Nobody else has done anything that I view as scummy right now. I do need to reread, because as I said before I missed some things previously, so obviously I haven't been as diligent as I'd like.

-Cerb
Blerpity blerp - I'mma saying a lot of nothing here.

So your case is: I sorta agree with some other cases but I'm not caught up and neither is my other head (almost as though 20 pages of derp isn't helpful in a strange and mystical way that some sexy bearded person suggested but I needed to disagree with to try to pretend to look townish).

Got it :lol:
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Post Post #533 (isolation #11) » Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:31 am

Post by Thor665 »

Maybe it was lack of the space as he ctrl+F'd through the 20 pages of totally awesome and super good info?

Vote: Reasonably Rational
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Post Post #544 (isolation #12) » Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:57 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 534, ruru wrote:
In post 532, Thor665 wrote:
In post 481, Thor665 wrote:
Vote:Reasonably Rational
@Mod
In post 0, Almost50 wrote:Note: We intend to use a script for VCs and it doesn't recognize bolded votes, so please use the vote tags only.
VOTE: Reasonably Rational
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Post Post #564 (isolation #13) » Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:21 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 545, Reasonably Rational wrote:I'm fully caught up. 100%. What I haven't done is read through the game hypercritically with the intent of finding suspicious behavior that doesn't immediately jump out at me. I've just been reading along and responding organically, as things come up and occur to me. I independently dislike the reasons Elsa gives for their votes. I agree with Cheeky's statement that I expect town!Toranaga to be vocal and aggressive and accidentally end up leading things. I agree with my other heads only stated position, that RC's early posting is reasonable for town!RC.

Did reiterating this help you understand at all?
I feel like I do understand your position, allow me to play back our conversation to help you understand mine;

Thor: Day 1 is narf, we in RVS.
You: We are absolutely not in RVS, to say otherwise is a lie!
Thor: Then what's your non-RVS case?
You: Here's a bunch of half formed thoughts I kinda agree with - I've not relly been reading enough to have anything other than off the cuff reactions.
Thor: :neutral:

Did reiterating this help you understand at all?
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Post Post #575 (isolation #14) » Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:29 am

Post by Thor665 »

@Stargazer - Yeah, Toranaga is a decent vote.
What do you think of Reasonably though? He's kind of doing the same thing as Toranaga - attacking stuff in an empty "don't this look town way" without actual legit concepts behind the empty stuff he's spewing.
I think that slot is probably worse than Tor on that front, frankly.
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Post Post #580 (isolation #15) » Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:34 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 578, Elsa Jay wrote:Just living until the end. Nothing too special.

Oh, and I can't be roleblocked, so there MAY be a roleblocker. Just satin.
Are you a 3rd party Doc or a Doc who only protects from 3rd party kills?
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Post Post #589 (isolation #16) » Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:42 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 583, Skygazer wrote:@thor:
I agree with your assessment on RR but im not a fan of like half of the wagon's posting so far (tw, tor, nico, elsa). Between those four I think there's a good chance of the wagon being scum driven
With Elsa's claim I'll be pretty impressed if he's scum. He's basically only playing "okay" as scum if he is a Mafia Doc and wants to be town driven. If there are multiple killers probably one will want to tag him (and if he's a mafia doc there are multiple kill powers basically by definition) so...

Tor is trash, yeah.
Don't have an opinion on the other two.
Eh, play your side game, I don't oppose it, just wanted to ramp up on RR.
In post 582, Elsa Jay wrote:3rd party doctor.

So yeah, very sure it's Multiball.
Will be interesting to see some other wincons as you feel like you'd have to be pigeonholed with town unless you're lying about your wincon.
But I won't help lynch you today, so huzzah.
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Post Post #657 (isolation #17) » Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:17 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 592, Elsa Jay wrote:I'm not pigeonholed too "town", just the "Majority".

Big difference.
Not when most non-town factions tend to get to their endgame by killing things.
Also, even if your endgame is 'survive' doesn't mean you're necessarily compatible with other wincons (like, say an SK whose wincon is generally 'be the last living slot'.
Making your protect public fiat is a decent ploy to try to make that work for you also, might work, if I were you I'd try to ally more with the town though - town wincon and your claimed wincon remain the most likely to be compatible unless you know something I don't.
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Post Post #768 (isolation #18) » Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:49 am

Post by Thor665 »

Leaning Toogeloo as town for the Elsa push - that's a pretty ridiculous angle to go at as scum unless you can't read a room for spit. I think he can read a room.

@RC - you always scumread me, so I get that - but what makes Elsa scum and me her partner? That feels like you took a long bong hit and said the first thing that popped into your mind.
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Post Post #769 (isolation #19) » Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:50 am

Post by Thor665 »

I also think people are mistaking derp wagon push with scum pushing a wagon in the RC votes.
Not really excited by that.
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Post Post #988 (isolation #20) » Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:57 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 777, RadiantCowbells wrote:Also as I pointed out Toranaga the last time he played with a survivor was insistient that the proper approach to survivor was to PL them because you can't trust anyone without a town role PM.
Since you're both still going to be here - I'd like a link to this please.

I'd also like to remind you that I asked how Elsa/Thor made sense to you - still curious.

I don't particularly want to agree with RC, but I think the "proscum" Toranaga comment does look like a legit slip.
In post 933, CheekyTeeky wrote:Do you believe scum RC would play dirty by using a rep out as scum to save any integrity on a scum slot? Do you believe that scum RC would've given up?
Do you think RC would replace out as town to save the integrity of a town slot?
In post 970, Nancy Drew Shogunate wrote:Hi guys, I’m glad I got into to this game, thanks to Tora agreeing to hydra with me. He hasn’t caught me up yet, so I’ll have to figure out what’s been going on. Anyone care to catch me up? That would definitely speed things up. Thanks.
With an awareness that I skipped 20 pages;

RC did a derpy mason claim apparently.
Elsa was caught out crumbing by Tor and has claimed to be, functionally, a Survivor with a Doc power.
Beyond that it's mostly spew trash posting that if you want real reads from you need to scan some spew and apply your own opinions about what constitutes scummy or pro town play.

Current;y I'd be pretty happy lynching yours or Rational's slot, Mala also.

I'd generally rather not lynch Elsa, the worst, Bujabber, and Stargazer.

I'd be content to lynch about the rest of the game.

You should blind sheep me.
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Post Post #993 (isolation #21) » Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:01 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 989, the worst wrote:
In post 988, Thor665 wrote:Do you think RC would replace out as town to save the integrity of a town slot?
*raises hand*
eye witness
Serves as a decent rebuttal to Cheeky's defense if true.
Unless the argument is RC would replace out strategically as one alignment but never another.
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Post Post #1101 (isolation #22) » Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:04 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 997, Nancy Drew Shogunate wrote:Lololol, I’m not ever going to sheep a vote on me. :lol:
I'm not voting you.
So sheep me.
In post 998, Nancy Drew Shogunate wrote:P.edit. Forgot the mason thing. Do you believe it? Why or why not? @Thor
I don't see a lot of value in debating whether I believe it or not.
I don't have any interest in using it as a scum or town case.
In post 1012, Skygazer wrote:Thor, you trying to pocket me? I haven't seen anything from me that I'd describe as town on this site tbh
How does me listing you as a town read translate to trying to pocket you exactly?
That's not what pocketing is.
In post 1066, Nancy Drew Shogunate wrote:NSG naturally posting in the thread makes her town. it's not a hard read cause her town/scum ranges are imbalanced.
What's her scum range?
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Post Post #1114 (isolation #23) » Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:09 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 1102, Nancy Drew Shogunate wrote:I don’t “blindly” sheep anyone ever. I always make my own decisions
Okay.
Visually and as your decision - sheep me?
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Post Post #1118 (isolation #24) » Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:33 am

Post by Thor665 »

I think Mala is a fine vote, but RR is spending a lot of effort to say nothing while Mala is using minor effort to say nothing - I consider the former more scummy.
Why Mala (whom your partner is currently voting) over RR?
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Post Post #1122 (isolation #25) » Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:22 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 1121, TPFKAP wrote:IS THIS GAME WORTH READING?
That depends, are you scum?
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Post Post #1146 (isolation #26) » Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:55 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 1145, TPFKAP wrote:
In post 1122, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1121, TPFKAP wrote:IS THIS GAME WORTH READING?
That depends, are you scum?
no
Then it's a simple question of how do you scumhunt and I am left wondering why ypou need other people to explain if your scumhunting benefits from back reading or active gameplay to you.
Do you not understand your town play, or is this a reaction test (wherein I think the only reaction you're going to get is indifference or people who love back reading demanding you do so)

To me this all feels like a way for you to post and do nothing.
I'mma call you scum over it.
Prove me wrong?
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Post Post #1254 (isolation #27) » Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:45 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 1151, Reasonably Rational wrote:This is the only time I'm going to say this, because I don't think we need to kill Elsa now, but...

I want everyone who knows the flavor, and realizes that this game seems designed to have many killing roles on both/all sides(depending on single/multiball), to consider this.

Is it more likely that Simon is a neutral doctor, or that the Alliance, who has multiple doctors and is likely scum, has a scum doctor.

Just...

Think about that.

End setup/spec.

-Cerb
Let's presume for a moment that 100% guranteed Elsa is a Mafia Doc.
What is her theoretical path to victory that has you concerned considering this is Day 1 in a Large and the odds of there being more than 1 killing role is basically also 100% - especially if she is, as you fear, a Mafia Doc?

This is more empty fearmongering gak and info blather with no actual valid point behind it.
Yet for some reason people aggressively are town reading you for this.
It's very frustrating.
In post 1157, Nancy Drew Shogunate wrote:I didn't work on either ISO and didn't re-read anything so these are my impressions from just reading the thread in real time.
[snip]
I don't think thor believes asking nancy to sheep him will give him a reasonable read on nancy. and I don't think he is doing so because he strongly believes whoever he is voting is scum (I don't even know who he was voting then, it's how superficial he was about it).
I note that the first sentence is *very much* needed in order to make the second claim, which is pretty silly then. I've not been shy in describing my opinion.
In post 1157, Nancy Drew Shogunate wrote:I also don't really expect thor to call my play "trash" in this game. I don't think I'm behaving any differently than the other games I had with thor, and even if I was, I expect him to act smarter when trying to parse me out.
Interesting, so even though I've called you 'trash' and noted explicitly that you're spending a lot of time to say very little your conclusion is that Thor would never think this of you (why?) and that I should "act smarter" when trying to parse you. Which ignores that you've been avoiding me until directly asked about me, and wasted almost a third of our time together in a rage wall with RC, and has you complaining that I'm not trying to parse your partner in a way you understand (while blatantly ignoring that parsing her counts as parsing you).
:neutral:
Why are you being intentionally obtuse to toss sideways mud on me off such thin tells?
In post 1213, CheekyTeeky wrote:
In post 1207, Flicker wrote:VOTE: NicoRobin

I find her thread presence (or rather, lack thereof) highly unsatisfactory.
What do you think about TPFKAP's presence?
I like this.
In post 1243, Toogeloo wrote:Elsa playing like a 3rd party sheep, surprise surprise. And that new role info too...

People are insane for even remotely thinking Elsa won't stab town in the back. If we mislynch even a couple of times, we'll hit a point of no return to remove third party Survivor from the game. But apparently we have no power roles to help game solve during the night phase and we need to know all the scumz by the end of day 1, so let's ignore the claimed scum (yes Survivor is still scum, any non town alignment is), and cross our fingers, am I right?
What is your expectation of all the scum wincons?
Like, literally all that needs to exist to bone Elsa is an SK - whose wincon is generally "be the last thing alive" whose wincon directly opposes a Survivor wincon for Elsa to basically be boned very quickly. And, incidentally, also falls into an issue for RR's silly "mafia doc!" fear.
Why are you sweating this before a night phase has passed?
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Post Post #1268 (isolation #28) » Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:39 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 1255, Elsa Jay wrote:Seriously, can we evaluate Toogeloo next? My sanity won't take much more.
At the time he bore into you as a lynch candidate people were *very* okay with you. It's not what i'd expect from scum.
Compare/contrast with how RR went into you after Toog made his play - incidentally what I would expect from scum.
I'd guess the slot is distracted town running on policy rails - don't think there's a lot of gold there unless you have some angle I'm not seeing.
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Post Post #1270 (isolation #29) » Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:58 am

Post by Thor665 »

As long as we ignore the first half of his ISO I'd agree with you, but if we ignore the second half then RR could argue Toog was doing nothing but focus on him.
Seems pretty weak - you're a Survivor, so I get the idea of wanting to lynch a guy that wants you dead, but I don't see the scum concept there.
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Post Post #1272 (isolation #30) » Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:16 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 1271, Elsa Jay wrote:Guess its hard to explain my perspective there to you, but fine.

So your thoughts on TPF not even knowing it was Multiball then? Because that just screams scum not paying attention.
I personally think it really falls more into my original point about the slot that he's posting stuff to seem active while not actually doing anything.

If you want me to repeat that I find the slot scummy I'll do so - the new info is hardly shocking to anyone who has been paying attention to that slot though.
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Post Post #1275 (isolation #31) » Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:06 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 1273, Elsa Jay wrote:Then this seems like an arbitrary question to ask, but... Would You like to vote them?
I'd be happy voting them, was hoping to get more engagement from the RR town readers, but I'll run a counter Nico wagon for lulz.

VOTE: TPFKAP
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Post Post #1303 (isolation #32) » Fri Oct 05, 2018 9:32 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 1288, Jingle wrote:Hey Thor, is there a particular reason your beard is against the Nico wagon, or for the Jumble of Letters wagon, that I should be aware of?
It's best summed up here;
viewtopic.php?p=10476959#p10476959
The long version is "I kinda squint at an activity based attack when there is a blatant active lurker present, and see much town gain (and no town negativity) in creating a counter lurker lynch so there is info to mine post flip".

Help out?
In post 1289, Jingle wrote:FWIW, my impression is that he's the most reasonable and rational player in the game so far.
Cool, sure, I can agree with that as long as we ignore his 3p fearmongering - but I'll give you that as a debate point.
What has he done other than try to look reasonable and rational? Like, what actual game advancement behavior are you seeing? Because I've got nothing - we've had replacements who've done more, and yet RR is a constant presence, a reliable poster, and is talking a lot.
Think about that for a moment.
In post 1300, Flicker wrote:TPFKAP's (lack of presence) wasn't great, either, but I'll give her a pass for now and assume she's being genuine in having shown up late.

By contrast, Nico's posting bothers me because she was clearly present at the start of the game, had at least a little sense of what was going on, and then disappeared. Honestly, I half-hoped adding my vote to the pile would Beetlejuice her and reveal that she's been lurking and deliberately holding back (in a way that would definitely be scummy). I guess it's possible she's busy or overwhelmed with the volume of the game so far, but right now her ISO just seems really off. I'd also support a policy lynch for lurking, no matter what reasons she may have.
Considering that TPFKAP *literally Beetlejuiced* and also looks like an actual active lurk why are you not voting him and instead voting a slot you appear to agree looks like a likely flake out?
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Post Post #1317 (isolation #33) » Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:46 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 1307, Jingle wrote:Eh. TPFKAPOSOJGNKDL or whatever the name is seems more town from what's in ISO than NR. Also, possible towntell.
I have such a reverse opinion of all of that from what you do.
What in that ISO is town seeming to you?
In post 1307, Jingle wrote:Why start counterwagoning there instead of on someone who is pushing one lurker over another? Are all such people above suspicion?
They are not.
One of them, for example, is TPFKAP.
So...
In post 1307, Jingle wrote:Agreed on the RR front. He has many mouthnoises, but nothing to suggest alignment from what I recall. I liked your presence on his wagon for your alignment a lot better than your presence on NR's.
Vote RR and I'll move back, I was lonely and it was going nowhere so it wasn't doing me a lot of good. :roll:
Stop half wagon analyzing.
In post 1314, Flicker wrote:1) Where did TFPKAP Beetlejuice into the thread? I haven't interpreted any of her appearances like that.
2) I also wouldn't characterize her as an active lurker, at least not yet. Even if it was a case of active lurker vs non-active lurker, there's still slightly more in TFPKAP's ISO I like (post and a general gut feeling).
3) I don't agree Nico's a likely flake out, just that it's a possibility.
1. Are you kidding me?
viewtopic.php?p=10477815#p10477815
viewtopic.php?p=10477883#p10477883
That is 66% of his posting today, prior to that he acted like multiball was a confusing and new concept to place a meaningless vote, yet he's following enough of today to know instantly when he's voted? How do you define Beetlejuice exactly?

2. I can't argue with 'gut feeling' and I'll agree you noted his best post by far. If there had been any follow up on that or his stated reads in 962 or even just anything at all resembling that he gives a damn to find scum I'd be on board with you. But that is an empty and super shallow ISO despite being much larger than other ISOs.

3. Sounds like a po-tay-to po-tah-to to me. Want to make a wager on it? If the slot flakes you promise to sheep me the rest of the day, and if it doesn't I'll agree with your gut read on TKASAGSP? I'm game if you are.
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Post Post #1319 (isolation #34) » Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:11 am

Post by Thor665 »

1. Do you disagree with me that it's odd that he is posting with confusion about multiball but apparently hanging around and active reading what's happening? You don't see any suspicion with that as a playstyle choice?

3. True, but I like sheep :lol:
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Post Post #1332 (isolation #35) » Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:54 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 1321, Flicker wrote:
In post 1319, Thor665 wrote:1. Do you disagree with me that it's odd that he is posting with confusion about multiball but apparently hanging around and active reading what's happening? You don't see any suspicion with that as a playstyle choice?
Any problem I have with this playstyle is connected to the lack of backreading, which I find confusing. I'm not sure what people gain out of engaging with people that makes it so good for scumhunting they don't need to also catch up on everything that's happened. But apparently that's not AI, since some people just don't backread (including you this game, apparently)?
Trying to equate his playstyle to mine is really weird - I clearly am not playing like him, nor have I advocated not understanding the game.
if you agree with me that his timing and confusion paired with keeping up on some things, but not all things is questionable - why are you arguing so hard that he's town off gut?
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Post Post #1333 (isolation #36) » Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:00 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 1324, Nancy Drew Shogunate wrote:porkens' lurking is straight up NAI and he didn't display any confusion about multiball, he just apparently didn't know who was talking about it first.
1. I didn't call his lurking scummy in any way at all - so...redefine your case on me to what I actually said and did, yeah?
I called him as active lurking and faking not knowing what's going on in an attempt to avoid doing anything, and noted that he wasn't trying to game solve.
Why do you think i wouldn't find that scummy? It's not from anything I've ever said in any game ever, so...?

2. Are we playing word games? Okay, fine, I clarify my comment of "confused about multiball" to "confused about who instigated multiball discussion and deciding it was a valid scumtell to vote Elsa over" Feel free to explain how that changes anything now that I've used more words to make more specifically clear what he pretended to be confused about.
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Post Post #1345 (isolation #37) » Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:39 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 1334, Nancy Drew Shogunate wrote:1. he doesn't feel like he is active lurking at all.
2. you're still using the word "confusion" to give porkens' posting some characteristic that isn't there. not knowing who talked about multiball first isn't being confused by it. it's not like porkens suggested someone else did it first, is it?
1. So he doesn't feel like he's showing up and posting nothing? Even though anyone can look at his ISO, see at most 3 scumhunting posts, and blatantly be able to recognize that he never follows up on anything? How would you like to describe his posting if not active lurk? I'kk use other words - but it has to be clear to you he's not actually advancing the game, yeah?

2. What word would you like me to use? Unawareness? Lack of understanding? Proof/faking of not reading and then acting like it is a scumtell which is nonsensical? I feel like these are all valid and hold to my point?

You didn't explain why you made up meta about me yet either.
In post 1335, Nancy Drew Shogunate wrote:
In post 1265, TPFKAP wrote:who started talking about multiball?

VOTE: elsa jay
how is that faking confusion about anything? I don't see it.

-tor
As I said to your other head - change it to whatever you like, it's proof he either does (or is faking) lack or awareness/lack of reading/lack of jbowing what's going on even though he's clearly actively following the game but Flicker was backed into a corner by me about that and then fled and everyone is still wasting time on me and will probably town read Flicker, RR, and everyone else about this because as far as I can tell everyone is now using a different rulebook for what qualifies as being "helpful to town in any way at all" and I never got the memo.

:neutral:

Like, does this post highlight TPFKAP knowing...anything? Scumhunting anything? What the hell about this pleases you at all? Describe the pro-town plan to me and I'll happily go away, but why are you trying to definition debate me and then acting surprised I find your play trash this game?
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Post Post #1346 (isolation #38) » Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:39 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 1336, Flicker wrote:
In post 1332, Thor665 wrote:Trying to equate his playstyle to mine is really weird - I clearly am not playing like him, nor have I advocated not understanding the game.
if you agree with me that his timing and confusion paired with keeping up on some things, but not all things is questionable - why are you arguing so hard that he's town off gut?
I'm not. I feel like these points are misrepresentations of what I've said, but I'm tired and my team got shut out today, so with all due respect, I'm done with this conversation.
I am very frustrated by this response.
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Post Post #1372 (isolation #39) » Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:21 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 1349, Nancy Drew Shogunate wrote:I can’t speak for Tor but A) you first tell me that you’re scumreading our slot, then demand I “blindly sheep” you on a slot I think could be town. B) I’m not tr Porkens/TPFKAP but as scum, she usually tries to derail in some way, so no blatantly obvious scumtells from her slot yet. You’d be making a mistake, if you think I’m locked in on your wagon. Convince me I’m wrong here. What am I not seeing?
A) Yes, and?
B) How solid is that as a Porkens scumtell for you?
(unlabled) C) How about everything I already pointed out, and that you presented as an issue with me made up meta that I asked you why you believed and you haven't talked to me about but then asked me to talk about your read on me? :neutral:
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Post Post #1408 (isolation #40) » Sun Oct 07, 2018 4:16 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 1385, Jingle wrote:Other than the not-a-townslip that we resolved, the reads being specifically on who they were on (RC, CT, Tora) doesn't particularly strike me as scum trying not to ruffle feathers. The NR vote seems more like doesn't give a Smurf than optimistic (NAI) and the beetlejuicing seems more snippy than concerned, which makes that less likely to be of alignment significance imo.
You're bringing up pushes that went literally nowhere as evidence that he's not trying to ruffle feathers - if he had advanced any of those reads an inch I might agree with you, but what ruffling are you seeing here?
Then you defend not giving a hoot and being snippy as more theoretically pro town than being opportunistic and concerned.
Seriously, I feel like you're desperate grabbing at straws here when Ockham's Razor is sitting right there going 'yo, whassp?'
In post 1385, Jingle wrote:On the other hand, NR strikes me as aggressively doing Smurfall, especially given that she appears to be posting once every other day. I'm totes down to drown that in a fire, pending a meta dive to determine if that is a town or scum indicative move. You know, after I'm done hitting beehives with a stick to see if anything tasty drops out.
A very casual look at the posting from that slot over the past week suggests that if it is a scumtell then they're only a scum player in all their games at the moment. :shrug: I don't want to defend the play (unlike your back bend above) but let's at least be honest that if Nico is scummy (and I agree, they're a perfectly acceptable lynch option) than so are some other slots. However other slots are getting weird pushback, which bothers me. Why isn't it pinging you and why are you doing it?
In post 1385, Jingle wrote:Voting RR right now seems like a waste of both of our time. The wagon died, and I don't particularly want it back at the moment, despite the use it had a few days ago. I've seen what RR does under pressure this game, and now I want to let them have their space and see how that changes the things. I'll get back to you if I decide resurrecting the dead wagon is useful, but I'm quite satisfied with the three wagons we have at the moment for now.
You brought it up, I'd already moved off the wagon.
In post 1385, Jingle wrote:Speaking of which, what do you think of the votes on you? What are your experience levels with the CT and the members of the Shogunate, or possibly more relevant their experience levels with you?
The wagon on me is meh for reads because it's still pretty small, it might be derp town and an oportunistic scum, or it might be all town going for reactions. That it petered out at three while Nico remains relatively strong doesn't make it feel particularly scumdriven. I'd wager one at most and Tora would be my bet.

CT and Toranaga have experience with me, don't think I've ever played with Toranaga's partner (y'know, the one who made a meta claim on me and keeps ducking the question about where they came up with this concept of why I'd play that way, even when they have a partner who does know my playstyle...just saying). I think Cheeky is playing fine. I have issues and doubts on the Toranaaga slot (and that he's half jabbing at me while acting paranoid about his partner being interrogated while she keeps digging a hole triggers me even more on the slot).
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Post Post #1412 (isolation #41) » Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:25 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 1410, Jingle wrote:And if I could have 10 accurate non null reads this early into my process I’d be way better at this game.
Why have the word accurate there?
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Post Post #1417 (isolation #42) » Sun Oct 07, 2018 8:44 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 1415, Jingle wrote:Eh, I’m pretty sure on 6 town/3p players at the moment and I have a decent scumread. Also, only five players in my null pile, one of which I never plan to directly sort. There’s lots to go on right now.
Yeah, just saying accurate feels weird - like, basically even a good player's odds of accurate are only slightly better than random chance would dictate - so why is that even a concern. I'd just call it 'reads' or 'solid reads' or 'confident reads' not 'accurate reads'.

The language choice seems odd.
The answer sounds like sanity - but doesn't quite explain the word choice for me.
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Post Post #1422 (isolation #43) » Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:33 pm

Post by Thor665 »

I'm glad people have explained to me that TPFKAP isn't active lurking, otherwise I would get the wrong impression from his play.
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Post Post #1456 (isolation #44) » Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:55 am

Post by Thor665 »

7 days left.
9 to lynch.
The biggest wagon is currently a three way tie with three votes each.

People should step up.
We should have got a claim or something this weekend, frankly.
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Post Post #1458 (isolation #45) » Mon Oct 08, 2018 10:02 am

Post by Thor665 »

My biggest issue with him is how he's twisting to defend TPFKAP.
I don't town read him.
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Post Post #1497 (isolation #46) » Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:57 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 1482, Elsa Jay wrote:Thor wants to hammer.
When did I say that?
In post 1495, Nancy Drew Shogunate wrote:
In post 1492, CheekyTeeky wrote:If flicker is town, then who is scum on this wagon?
I don’t know. My strongest scumreads are offwagon. *shrug*

~N
:neutral:
It's like there was the possibility of insight, and then it was stamped upon brutally.
Tor continues to be trash and continues to avoid me.
Him white knighting this wagon makes me think he's statistically more likely to be right about the potential alignment flip. This is based on me thinking he's primary groupscum, natch.
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Post Post #1507 (isolation #47) » Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:55 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 1498, Elsa Jay wrote:
In post 479, Thor665 wrote:1 day and 20 pages?

Yeah - I'm skipping all of that.
Off of Page 1 I liked Elsa and Toranaga.
Is anyone in quickMjolnir range yet?

That and your second post made me slightly cautious. Just saying.

So your saying Tora is scum defending town here? Nani?!
Yeah, that's absolutely a claim that I will hammer randomly :lol:

Yes, I am saying exactly that - why is it confusing to you as an idea?

Flicker's claim is early enough to be 'meh' but since it got me a TPFKAP vote as well I'll admit to just deciding 'town enough' and riding this rampage train a bit further.
I'd also do Toranaga. The absolute avoidance of me is triggering me to high heaven, and I'm going to keep mentioning it until other people notice and wagon him up.
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Post Post #1516 (isolation #48) » Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:10 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 1509, Nancy Drew Shogunate wrote:we talked, your opinions are Smurf, IDK how to parse you out and you're confusing me with my hydra partner and not making sense
So now you claim you don't know how to read me when before you were claiming my comments proved I was scum?
Magical.
And I'm sorry for "confusing" you with your hydra partner who made up meta on me and you apparently are down with her ducking explaining that while letting her advance that little gem into the discussion :roll:
Also, we didn't talk. i talked, you loudly proclaimed me as scum and then started running silent. Even your answer here shows an awareness that you're lying because now you're coming up with this "IDK how to parse Thor" spiel to justify how you weren't interacting with me. Don't spit on my head and tell me it's raining.
In post 1510, Elsa Jay wrote:Thor, help Flicker prove her claim. Vote to let her try to self-Hammer.
Let's say we 100% prove Flicker is a Priest?
What does that get us exactly alignment wise?
PEDIT - apparently your goal is to create an IC. Having lack of ability to hammer oneself doesn't make one an IC - but if you feel this way feel free to protect Flicker. I decided not to vote him prior to the claim, and I don't vote town reads because that's not how the game is played.
In post 1512, Nancy Drew Shogunate wrote:"flicker's claim is early enough to be "meh"" from thor is all kinds of puke
Fascinating.
Why?
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Post Post #1521 (isolation #49) » Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:17 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 1517, Nancy Drew Shogunate wrote:you're being a lot more forceful and a very Smurf which is different than the towngames you played with me. IDK if that makes you scum and I said a couple of times I'm not in position to parse you out because my experience with you is limited. this is the first time you make me cringe in a game though, and you're doing it a lot.

-tor
I'm being more forceful than my town play? :lol:
How do you define forceful?
In post 1519, Nancy Drew Shogunate wrote:
In post 1516, Thor665 wrote:
In post 1512, Nancy Drew Shogunate wrote:"flicker's claim is early enough to be "meh"" from thor is all kinds of puke
Fascinating.
Why?
just how is it "meh"?

-tor
Because it robbed town of getting complete wagon info and hammer intent to mine.
How is my opinion "puke"?
You ducked that question really hard.
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Post Post #1531 (isolation #50) » Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:27 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 1526, Nancy Drew Shogunate wrote:you don't push any of these things as hard when town from what I remember of your d1s.
You either remember wrong or are using really dated references.
In post 1526, Nancy Drew Shogunate wrote:saying porkens is "active lurking" instead of just not being around is made up. it's changing what "active lurking" means. I'm the towniest slot in the game and you're pushing me cause, afaict, I'm ignoring you and I'm right about stuff, which is nitpicky and playing to cheeky's paranoia if nothing else.
1. It's not changing the definition, and he is doing it.
2. I disagree that you're the towniest slot, and even if everyone else agrees with you it is still important I point out issues with that read if I have them.
In post 1526, Nancy Drew Shogunate wrote:"it robbed town of getting complete wagon info" so what you're calling "meh" isn't shading flicker's action. I can see how it did rob town of getting wagon info. I thought you were shading flicker.

-tor
:neutral:
So it was "puke" because you assumed I was attacking someone I'd already indicated I didn't want to lynch.
Wouldn't that just be scummy?

@RR - :lol:
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Post Post #1533 (isolation #51) » Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:28 am

Post by Thor665 »

@RR
@Elsa

I'm confirmed innocent.
As long as you're taking this tack with my comments.
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Post Post #1542 (isolation #52) » Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:39 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 1538, Nancy Drew Shogunate wrote:puke is scummy

you are changing the definition. active lurking means porkens clicks the thread, reads, and doesn't post. there's nothing in his posting that points to it, other than you trying to interpret that elsa vote as something that's actually not there.

I'm using that game with mulch, which is an year ago so it is dated, but also some stupid game I had to replace out d1 cause everyone was aids.

-tor
1. So you're able to sort me again now (albeit doing a really aggressive leap..which might explain why I'm calling your play trash, even though you feel like I'm being terrible and attacking the towniest player in the game...just saying, reality appears to be aligning with me)?
2. Active lurking also has as part of its description doing empty posting to appear active and to avoid prods. Incidentally, have you looked at TPFKAP's ISO at all?
3. A year ago I was assuredly just as aggressive as I am now - feel free to bring up samples from that game to showcase how different I am.
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Post Post #1693 (isolation #53) » Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:52 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 1546, Reasonably Rational wrote:Thor, do you expect Cheeky to be aware of 3? If so, what are your thoughts on them assigning a town read to you based on that behavior?
As far as I'm aware they're assigning a town read to me based off fluidity of reads, not aggressiveness unless you're equating the two?
Cheeky has certainly seen me as aggressive town in recent memory, so I would expect him to be aware that I play town aggressively, I'm not sure how aware he is of it as a long term or short term playstyle.
In post 1547, Nancy Drew Shogunate wrote:1. I'm not saying I can sort you. I'm using the games I played with you to say this is different cause your posting here sucks.
2. porkens isn't appearing active at all. and yes I checked his ISO.
3. viewtopic.php?t=73273&f=53&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go read your own d1 here.
1. I agree you are generically claiming all my posting here is different from how I normally play town while also claiming you can't sort me (whereas what you're saying *sounds* like you should be screaming that I'm scum and trying to get my lynched) I also find that choice to be scummy on your part and valid proof of my claim you're avoiding me.

2. I agree he isn't active now, that doesn't mean he hasn't, at the time I cited him for active lurking, been active. I haven't called his lurking evidence he is scum or town, only his active lurking. Learn2play?

3. Okay, so it's totally different but you need me to self-meta myself? On a skim I see myself walling, defending people who develop fast and aggressive reads, accusing people of wasting air, calling plans derp, and mocking you for being daft enough to have me as a scum read when basic logic suggests you shouldn't have.

Looks like my usual town play, which is how I would also describe my play this game.
In post 1577, Chara wrote:Thor's another slot i'm interested in.
offhandedly: knowing that Rational is a poster who rarely gives reads, especially day 1, and is both a highly mechanical and methodical player, and one who likes talking about flavour and theory, why is the description "spending a lot of effort to say nothing" a scummy one? assuming he's aware of that fact, and it's possible he isn't because it seems he hasn't read much of the thread.

there's pribably other things, i just don't find him towny.
Spending a lot of effort to say nothing is different from theory talk and flavor talk.
Also, RC was fine giving reads this game, very hard and very fast ones.
In post 1604, Jingle wrote:I done did some digging, and this is not the extent of what I'd expect from town NR.

Look at Blazblue. NR was useless in the thread, but useless more along the lines of TPFKAP here, not the same degree of useless as NR here. Moreover, she was actively gamesolving and obvtowning in her neighborhood. Posting well, in fact.

Further a casual look told me she is lurkery, but not apt to literally doing nothing. I would fully expect a level of engagement like the Porkens slot, not a complete lack of everything ever.
My digging was just looking at Nico's posting concurrent with this game.
She is derp failing in all conversations pretty much across the forum so I'm not sure why that would make her more likely to be scum here.
I'm fine with scumspecting the slot, it's a garbage fire of a slot, but I just don't think the poor posting is singularly scummy at this point in time - it's a general lurk case.
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Post Post #1744 (isolation #54) » Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:03 pm

Post by Thor665 »

Tor popped out his meta on me by just linking the game and not actually describing differences he saw.
I dismissed it heartily and with a few notes.
He avoided responding.

Much like how the Nancy Drew head claimed meta awareness of me, was challenged on it, and then avoided me.

Does anyone actually townread the slot?
If so - can you justify this behavior in a pro town manner? They're basically claiming meta and defending it like gut without being honest enough to admit it's a gut read.
Makes me think it's a strategic read.
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Post Post #1747 (isolation #55) » Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:16 pm

Post by Thor665 »

I'm still very happy people have explained to me how townish TPFKAP is - otherwise I would still be finding evrything they do to scream 'scummy' and 'optimal lynch target'.
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Post Post #1748 (isolation #56) » Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:17 pm

Post by Thor665 »

At least he's not active lurking because he's posting - thank heavens someone explained that new definition to me while acting like my play is questionable this game while they hard defend that slot.
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Post Post #1754 (isolation #57) » Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:48 pm

Post by Thor665 »

Both cases are decent enough - people should pick one.
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Post Post #1791 (isolation #58) » Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:25 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 1760, Jingle wrote:
In post 1530, Reasonably Rational wrote:Thor, unfortunately every wagon this game while you're alive is going to be robbed of that info, because you entered the game seemingly eager to quickhammer someone. I will *never* put someone at L-1 without being okay with them getting lynched without even getting to claim because of that. There will always be similar concern that we not only have to worry about scum lolhammering and trying to get away with it, but also someone of unknown alignnment who has publicly expressed an interest in doing that.
FWIW Thor is a fan of quickwagoning, not lolhammering ime. He (as town) is more than capable of respecting the L-1 -> intent -> claim -> evaluate claim modus operandi. If he chose to hammer preclaim and didn't have a good reason for it, I'd be down to lynch him for BoP.
Holy cow, someone who doesn't assess a joke by assuming it's hard truth and that I'm a raging nutball who doesn't know how to play the game, and maybe glanced at my wiki or any newbie I've ever ICed or any game where I had hammer chance.
Refreshing :lol:

<3 Jingle
In post 1790, BuJaber wrote:
In post 1754, Thor665 wrote:Both cases are decent enough - people should pick one.
This is scummy too.. the case on me isn't decent at all and if you did think so why wouldn't you join my wagon if it's closer to getting lynched than TFP's?
Well, for starters;

1. I started the wagon you are currently the counterwagon to.
2. My wagon has been doing a good job staying competitive with yours.
3. Me considering it a decent case (which it is) does not mean I actually fully agree with the case.

So why are you spewing this nonsense at me?
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Post Post #1793 (isolation #59) » Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:46 am

Post by Thor665 »

Yes, I asked people to pick *one* of them.
Congrats - you spotted how I followed my own request?
Brilliant work - glad we had this conversation?

Are you trying to argue for your lynch? This is a very strange conversation and really oddball attack.
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Post Post #1794 (isolation #60) » Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:51 am

Post by Thor665 »

Is the theory you're town, TPFKAP is town, and I'm scum utterly indifferent to the wagons?
In that case, wouldn't I be perfectly happy to move if I was indifferent?
So at that point then I'm scum and have a preference to lynch TPFKAP - which would suggest you're my scumpartner, something I'm guessing you're not arguing.
So then we go to you're still both town, but I'm scum who is scared to be on a town lynch wagon and am quietly trying to shove it through - which considering how loud and proud I've been about TPFKAP's wagon (and, frankly, even two minutes spent looking at any scum game I've ever been in) will suggest I'm not scared to be on a town lynch wagon nor to spearhead one.

So...then that leaves us with...what?
I don't get this.
What are you actually accusing me of other than showing that you aren't paying attention to my stated beliefs and are generically against anyone thinking the case on you is (terror of terrors) "decent".
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Post Post #1804 (isolation #61) » Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:21 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 1800, Jingle wrote:
In post 1791, Thor665 wrote:Holy cow, someone who doesn't assess a joke by assuming it's hard truth and that I'm a raging nutball who doesn't know how to play the game, and maybe glanced at my wiki or any newbie I've ever ICed or any game where I had hammer chance.
Refreshing

<3 Jingle
Wait, you mean you're not a raging nutball? Why do I enjoy games with you then?
My statement was that I'm not a raging nutball who doesn't know how to play the game.
That does leave open that I could still not know how to play the game or be a raging nutball who does. :lol:
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Post Post #1810 (isolation #62) » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:07 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 1805, BuJaber wrote:My point is if you think the case is decent (which ftr I don't know how you can say it's decent and disagree with it.. because decent implies agreeing), you would want my lynch because you think I'm scum.
1. Decent doesn't imply agreement, the definition of decent is that it is 'acceptable standard'
2. It is very easy to think something is decent (like, say, celery) without actually desiring to eat it when you have an alternate food option.
3. I am perfectly fine with your lynch and don't town read you.
In post 1805, BuJaber wrote:And if you don't agree with it you shouldn't be inviting people to join either wagon. You should be arguing for only your case against TFP.
That is the only case I'm arguing for, and I disagree with you that me saying 'decent' and inviting people to choose between cases either hides my opinion, misleads anyone as to which I'd prefer, or weakens my ability to advance the wagon I prefer.
In post 1805, BuJaber wrote:Your statement was contradictory and shows you don't care who gets lynched and that's what pinged me.
It is blatantly obvious unless you ignore my postings and invent definitions for words to understand my preference.
Also, even if I didn't have a preference at all that still wouldn't actually be scummy or an issue except insomuch as I should probably always be voting the biggest wagon.
There is no contradiction.
Lrn2reed? :)
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Post Post #1811 (isolation #63) » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:08 am

Post by Thor665 »

Actually I'm also kind of arguing for Nancy Drew Shogunate's lynch, but even I'm willing to admit the beard isn't likely to get too far on that one.
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Post Post #1812 (isolation #64) » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:09 am

Post by Thor665 »

I'm actually finding BuJaber scummier for this weird interaction than for Jingle's case.
Sorry Jingle.
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Post Post #1813 (isolation #65) » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:10 am

Post by Thor665 »

@BuJaber - are you awkward fake distancing me to try to get me lynched after you flip scum?
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Post Post #1815 (isolation #66) » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:17 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 1814, CheekyTeeky wrote:Thor where have you discussed TPFKAP?
Post 1748
Post 1747
Post 1542
Post 1531
Post 1507
Post 1422
Post 1372
Post 1346
Post 1345
Post 1333
Post 1332
Post 1319
Post 1317
Post 1303
Post 1275 (that's where I voted him, I probably was dinging at him before that also, but this is already boring me)
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Post Post #1816 (isolation #67) » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:18 am

Post by Thor665 »

Yeah, on a quick scan there's a lot before that too.
Lrn2ISO? :lol:
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Post Post #1818 (isolation #68) » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:20 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 1817, BuJaber wrote:No I understand the word decent differently than you do.
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/decent

Okay - but I'm the one using it in the generally accepted form.
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Post Post #1819 (isolation #69) » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:21 am

Post by Thor665 »

Like, if you thought decent meant "Absolutely loved and agreed with" then I get your issue.
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Post Post #1822 (isolation #70) » Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:24 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 1820, BuJaber wrote:Pedit: fine for my own education.. so when you said decent you were just saying that it qualifies as a case instead of being a 'non-case'? Is that a correct interpretation?
To really parse it down for you I was saying they were both good enough cases to deserve attention and to consolidate votes on.
In post 1821, BuJaber wrote:Mafia specific: good case doesn't have to mean you agree with it fully.. but when you don't clarify that, the assumption is you agree with it. Like forget the word decent.. you agree that if someone says 'this is a good case' and nothing else then the logical assumption is that they agree with the case?
You're the one who took issue with me saying it was "good" and not agreeing with it, so...sure?
I'll agree that if I had said 'the case on BuJabber is good/decent" and nothing else it would make sense to think I agreed with the case. In context I'm not sure I travel down that path with you, and assuredly in context I don't follow you for the contradiction 'why aren't you voting me!?!' thing - which is just lala talk.
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Post Post #1903 (isolation #71) » Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:17 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 1840, Chara wrote:i'm so tired.
BuJaber keeps feeling town to me in his posts. it's his stances i haven't liked.
That's literally describing a town read.
In post 1899, McMenno wrote:Okay, what's the tpwhatever case? Lurkscum?
To crank it down to it's most basic - yes, it's a lurk scum case.
You could also just go read his entire ISO (which should take about 5 minutes tops) and have a very solid grasp of the issues with the slot.
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Post Post #1904 (isolation #72) » Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:19 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 1894, Nancy Drew Shogunate wrote:
In post 1884, TPFKAP wrote:I COACH MY DAUGHTERS SOCCER TEAM AND IVE NEVER BEEN TO ONE GAME DRUNK YOU DONT KNOW HOW HARD THAT WOULD BE FOR SOMEONE ELSE
THIS IS A WITCH-HUNT
BEEREEEEEEEEEEEEEEER
You only say that as scum. :igmeou:
She says while still sitting on the incredibly meaningful Mala wagon...
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Post Post #1905 (isolation #73) » Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:21 am

Post by Thor665 »

I started to write more comments, but I realize I am being very snarky while I am also currently winning the wagon game (and thanks to TPFKAP for basically coming in and claiming scum).
So, really I should be contented, so i'm not going to post the snark so I can pretend I'm a better person than I apparently am.
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Post Post #1913 (isolation #74) » Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:36 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 1906, Toogeloo wrote:The TPFKAP lynch will basically be a policy lynch considering his flip will be almost entirely informationless.

...and people gave me a hard time for saying we should lynch the third party player.
We'll never have info from his posting.
We still have the info from his flip and the wagon and counterwagon (which is, frankly, most of the info I ever use for a lynch anyway)

I also didn't give you a hard time for the 3rd party push, I just didn't agree with it - which is also info on us and everyone else involved.
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Post Post #1915 (isolation #75) » Fri Oct 12, 2018 3:47 am

Post by Thor665 »

Nah, we just need to ask if TPFKAP is Porkens again.
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Post Post #1929 (isolation #76) » Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:42 am

Post by Thor665 »

Anyone who isn't trying to grab on to as much credit for this wagon as possible is being blind about TPFKAP's play :lol:
That said, I will endorse the idea you're town, Jingle.
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Post Post #2092 (isolation #77) » Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:30 am

Post by Thor665 »

To a certain extent I'd like to flip some of the droops who were avoiding the wagons yesterday, but even so there probably is some info to be mined in flipping on the wagons since this will functionally be a slightly informed Day 1.

Someone commented that they wanted my insight on some of the setup spec babble - to which my basic reply is 'we don't know enough yet to have worthwhile setup spec'.
Like the killing factions? Yeah, we can safely assume 3+ killing roles, but the specifics of how many of those are targeted night actions and how many are maybe something like a paranoid gun owner is not really known. 4 doesn't seem like a crazy thought, but neither is it really worth spending more than 30 seconds self debating at this stage.

I'm fine treating Flicker as town right now, as I was fine doing so yesterday.
I'm fine treating the lightning rod as town, that seems sensible.
I'm indifferent on the whole "treat wagon as town wagon for analysis" thing and my basic reply is - "how about you just offer your reads and analyze reads that others offer" it seems like an empty statement.

McMenno was the starter of BuJaber and was Stargazer also, I kinda thought he was town. What's the case there for people?
Looking at the lynch;
TPFKAP (9): Thor665, Gamma Emerald, Elsa Jay, CheekyTeeky, BuJaber, Jingle, Nancy Drew Shogunate, Chara, Toogeloo
I'm town, Elsa is not a lynch nor likely groupscum, I think Cheeky is town, I think Toog is town.

I think we should lynch one of Gamma,BuJaber,Nancy Drew,Chara

VOTE: Nancy Drew Shogunate
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Post Post #2098 (isolation #78) » Tue Oct 16, 2018 6:04 am

Post by Thor665 »

The RR/BuJaber debate is going nowhere *really* fast.

Nancy Drew came in and gave a beautiful picture perfect example of IIoA by literally saying nothing other than theorizing town has a protective role other than the claimed 3rd party role - whoop-dee-insight.
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Post Post #2108 (isolation #79) » Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:08 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 2099, Reasonably Rational wrote:It's significant Thor. It's a matter of "is Bujaber this bad, or are they scum?" This is the second time they've pushed some theory that's fundamentally flawed.
Yeah, so why are you debating with BuJaber as opposed to mining a few of his games to be able to actually get evidence to suggest he is or isn't that bad?
In post 2104, Nancy Drew Shogunate wrote:Do you honestly think this was going to be my only post on D2? :roll:
Well, currently you've made three posts, they are, in order;

IIoA
Whining
And empty scumhunting

So, no, I don't expect it to be your only post.
Yes, I do expect it to be suggestive of your posting quality.
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Post Post #2109 (isolation #80) » Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:10 am

Post by Thor665 »

Hey, everyone, remember yesterday when Thor had to spend like 3/4ths of the phase repeating over and over issues with a slot's play.
And then said slot flipped scum.
Do we need to do that again?
I can do that again, but it is easier on my inner sense of peace and calm if I could get a couple of sheep on an obvious slot that isn't scumhunting.
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Post Post #2113 (isolation #81) » Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:14 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 2106, Nancy Drew Shogunate wrote:Interesting. Was TPFKAP possibly distancing here?
Like, just look at this, let's even accept that Nancy honestly thought TPFKAP knew exactly who their teammates were.
Is she *agreeing* that this is distancing?
Is she *disagreeing*?
Is she discussing her personal thoughts on anything?
Or is she making noise and hoping someone else will attack a slot for something?

Pedit: I am fine with you not wanting to mine. But at that stage YOU'VE ALREADY TAKEN THE DEBATE AS FAR AS IT CAN GO BECAUSE BUJABER ISN'T GOING TO CLAIM SCUM IF HE'S FAKING HIS THEORY.

I agree you can decided this for yourself and get back to us - I fail to see the point of the debate in helping you, he stated his theory, you noted your hole - thus endeth the excitement.

Sheep me on Nancy Drew?
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Post Post #2116 (isolation #82) » Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:25 am

Post by Thor665 »

It is relevant approaching lylo wise though.
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Post Post #2157 (isolation #83) » Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:18 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 2120, Nancy Drew Shogunate wrote:Thor is pushing us for made up reasons. First some meta nonsense I still don’t understand, now he’s sr me for understanding the role of martyr. Of course I understand that role because there was one in Labrynth.
As long as we're pointing out issues with your play;

1. What is the meta nonsense you don't understand?
I'm guessing it;s from your weak attack that I asked you to back up, that all happened here;
viewtopic.php?p=10478530#p10478530
I've been mentioning it a LOT and this is the first time you've even admitted awareness of me mentioning it - which is exciting progress.

2. When did I say I was scum reading you for understanding the martyr role? I never did anything of the sort. Now, I *did* call you scummy for IIoA and said exactly that when I did. But now you're making up a ridiculous straw man to whine about instead.

In a fire scum, go die in it :lol:
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Post Post #2177 (isolation #84) » Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:03 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 2161, Nancy Drew Shogunate wrote:I’m not and you’d know this if you were familiar with my meta. I read the flip wrong. Ask anyone who’s played with me ever. I do this all the time. I’m surprised RR don’t this. Maybe Chick and Gamma? :(
Since I never said anything about your lack of reading the flip being alignment indicative beyond more general proof that you're not scumhunting (of which I've offered many examples) I fail to get your point here.
In post 2169, Nancy Drew Shogunate wrote:This isn’t even MY post. No wonder I had no clue what the hell you were talking about. Tora wrote that not me.
Well, I'm glad you waited a full phase and multiple posts to clear that up.
I'm glad Toranaga opted to never clear it up, despite me having the conversation with him also.
I, personally, kind of take this as expectation that you planned to remove me at night and are now stuck with me for another phase while I have freedom to actually advance your wagon.

Why did it take this long to have this conversation?
Also, please ask Tor to explain the derp meta on me - I'd still like to hear that one justified whichever head made the claim.
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Post Post #2178 (isolation #85) » Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:05 am

Post by Thor665 »

Though I suppose Tor would have the defense of his alternate take on what 'active lurking' is defined as for his defense...though that just reminds me of other issues I have with your slot.
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Post Post #2211 (isolation #86) » Wed Oct 17, 2018 1:12 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 2202, Chickadee wrote:Still following along. Still without internet
I'm starting to really struggle to remember the last relevant work you did in the thread.
What was your last major push?
If you've had zero major pushes - which day phase should we roughly anticipate one :)
In post 2207, CheekyTeeky wrote:*notes resistance to wagon*
Outside of McMeeno himself and me starting up the Nancy wagon, what resistance are you perceiving?
Elsa's shift seems highly natural considering her claimed role, and I've got no one else I can spot as resisting.
Are you complaining about my resistance?
In post 2210, CheekyTeeky wrote:Idk how useful this is but it's still bugging me that Toog is alive with no valid explanation.
I will give you the *exact* reason.

"The way the kills and protects interacted last night resulted in a situation where Toog lived."

Now, maybe that means there are a lot less kills than you think, or more protects, or maybe Toog is lying and his lightning rod includes some sort of auto-protect shtick. But that's really all we'll know unless you want to go with a massclaim or wait till near the end of the game.

Out of curiosity - I'm not sure what that info much gets us at this stage. Yeah, in a very conceptual sense it doesn't hurt to know how many kills to expect or what sort of protective utility we have, but theorizing about it without pushing for claims feels like a very interesting theory hole that will accomplish absolutely nothing for game solving, yeah?
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Post Post #2220 (isolation #87) » Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:33 am

Post by Thor665 »

It would be very fluffy to the show. :lol:
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Post Post #2286 (isolation #88) » Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:38 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 2283, Toogeloo wrote:I feel obligated to point out that if there are only 9 town aligned players in the game, that means almost half the game is not town aligned, so the amount of "town hunting" going on seems rather odd considering you can practically point your finger at two different players and more than likely one is scum.
It only gets funnier when people point out that assorted questionable slots are sheeping wagons in questionable ways.

Then again (though i know this triggers you) one of the five towniest slots is open claimed 3rd party, so...

@Jingle - the above also counts as my rebuttal to your issue with the wagon on Shogunate. You're complaining about people slipping on wagons or lurking, and aren't bothering to connect the dots that Shogunate is doing both. That Elsa called it an 'active' slot hurts my soul. That said, I don't mind the NSG wagon, despite lurker Chickadee standing on it like a ruddy Nobel Prize in scumhunting...buuuuut, like, if there is going to be a Nobel Prize in scumhunting, and considering what else we have to lynch with extreme prejudice, I don't mind not pushing that wagon right now, y'know?
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Post Post #2287 (isolation #89) » Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:39 am

Post by Thor665 »

I hate to be 'that guy' but if there are more than 9 town players in this game, then a lot of people with town role PMs owe me an apology.
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Post Post #2306 (isolation #90) » Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:34 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 2289, Chickadee wrote:Thor I feel like you’re really focused on my lurking when I’ve told you guys I don’t have internet at the moment.
I'm not focused on your lurking.
I'm focused on your lack of content when you post.

When did you scan TPFKAP?
Date/time.
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Post Post #2313 (isolation #91) » Thu Oct 18, 2018 6:32 am

Post by Thor665 »

I generally do whatever i think raises my wincon chances that isn't cheating.
Discussing flavor is not cheating.
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Post Post #2352 (isolation #92) » Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:21 am

Post by Thor665 »

Image
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Post Post #2354 (isolation #93) » Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:24 am

Post by Thor665 »

Anyone who doesn't use timestamps is a fool.
I'm currently loving this phase.
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Post Post #2358 (isolation #94) » Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:28 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 2356, Chickadee wrote:It was VERY shortly after this post. Mere minutes.
Not according to the timestamp you gave us.
Did you just make the time up as a guess? Thought you looked it up.
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Post Post #2359 (isolation #95) » Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:28 am

Post by Thor665 »

It's no math mistake.
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Post Post #2361 (isolation #96) » Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:29 am

Post by Thor665 »

Can you double check the timestamps you gave us?
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Post Post #2362 (isolation #97) » Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:29 am

Post by Thor665 »

RR has *zero* to do with that.
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Post Post #2376 (isolation #98) » Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:48 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 2325, Chickadee wrote:I submitted the cop on October 12, 7:48am (Central time)

What are you hoping to get by making me look at time stamps?
Edited to reflect new claim time.
I'm with Chara that the stuff about going into an escape room sounds odd in context to the submission being in the morning.
The post coming after the result is...meh. If I was fishing for info from a theory scum I'd probably not fake being confused by their posting when starting the fishing.

I'm content not to lynch Chickadee today though, regardless.
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Post Post #2378 (isolation #99) » Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:49 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 2332, Chickadee wrote:I got the Porkens result shortly after submitting (8:26pm that night)
This is sketchy too, all things considered.
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Post Post #2386 (isolation #100) » Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:00 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 2381, Chickadee wrote:Can we just agree that flipping back and through on a phone between thread and messages (of which I have a lot) got me jumbled. I don't think anyone wants to lynchme today, so why are we still talking as if we're considering it?
Because we might want to lynch you at some other stage.
In post 2382, Jingle wrote:Thoughts?
As I said earlier, not looking to lynch Chickadee today.
Would lynch RR before Chickadee (but I was a short trip down that path)
Going off the theory 9 town (or at least a small town) I'm also of a mind that sticking to shopping in the more overt scummy slots remains a better play over either of the above.
I'm indifferent about the Nico question since Chick had to scum up the claim so much - but still tend to softly go they'd need to be partners, and Chick did step into a firing line for Nico considering odds of other killing roles, so...meh, I kinda lean town on both at the moment.
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Post Post #2450 (isolation #101) » Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:11 pm

Post by Thor665 »

Because day cops and flavor mysteries are boring, natch ;)
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Post Post #2705 (isolation #102) » Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:35 am

Post by Thor665 »

Greetings,
Got married last night.
Will be a little v/la at certain times over the next two weeks until I'm home from my honeymoon.
Should still be able to post semi-regular.

Got ten pages.
Not going to catch up yet.
Love you all, and it's not just the mead talking :lol:
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Post Post #2898 (isolation #103) » Mon Oct 22, 2018 4:49 am

Post by Thor665 »

About to get on a plane for the honeymoon.
Not thrilled by the wagon options currently, but I suppose I also have 7 days before deadline so probably at least 24 hours before a L-1 methinks :lol:
In a pinch I''d go...McMenno right now...I get the frustration with the Toog slot, but my suspicion is that it's more of playstyle decisions rather than explicit scum intentions.
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Post Post #3124 (isolation #104) » Tue Oct 23, 2018 6:06 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 2996, Jingle wrote:
In post 2993, Tails wrote:Now I want to steal Thor's hammer...
We did finally break the magical Jingle and Thor are opposite alignments tell at some point though. I think we have two whole completed games where we're both town!
I'd forgotten about that - it was a frighteningly long run.

I'm fascinated about how long the McMenno counter is working compared to the Tails wagon. Something is strange there.
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Post Post #3134 (isolation #105) » Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:40 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 3130, Reasonably Rational wrote:Thor, can you clarify what fascinates you about it?
There's a better case for Toranaga.
There's a more interesting role revelation/crumb/basically scumclaiming for Tails.
There are other slots that are generally 'meh'.

Why do people have a hard on for McMenno?
That's what's fascinating.
In post 3133, Chickadee wrote:Flipping tails, after I copped the slot, is so stupid.
What do you think the slot was doing hard crumbing the number 2?
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Post Post #3136 (isolation #106) » Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:42 am

Post by Thor665 »

PM him.
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Post Post #3197 (isolation #107) » Wed Oct 24, 2018 8:00 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 3153, Chickadee wrote:Then flip me Drixx. Do it.
I can understand being annoyed at someone - but for whatever annoyance you have towards Drixx he *did* lay out a fairly comprehensive series of issues with how you're approaching your reads and results and you're hardcore ducking addressing those issues and resorting to just empty attacks.

1. If you're town, this does not help sort the day.
2. If you're scum, you're looking super obvious, and so also shouldn't be doing this.

Please try again?

Why do you think the one video (on TPFKAP) was so slight in actual connection with who he was, and the other is super direct? That seems like a big issue.
In post 3156, BuJaber wrote:@Thor - why not Menno thouhh? Also it was really only 4 of us max.. the same 4 people who think menno is scum are flip flopping between him and other wagons.
Why not? Because of the reasons I listed. Would you like to address why those reasons are non-legit?

I agree it is a limited pool of people acting suspect, and that either they are scum with an agenda or town being blinded to logic - I'm not sure where you're going with this as a rebuttal of my thought though. Clarify?
In post 3184, Tails wrote:1.)What's your alignment?
Regardless of their actual alignment, your subject will always answer "Town". Unless they're being snarky or just avoid answering altogether. Asking this actually doesn't accomplish anything.

2.)What was your predecessor crumbing?
Assuming that I read my predecessor (I didn't and made clear I was not reading a lot of the back log of this game.), why would I answer? If I don't have a PR, I'll be confused and answer "I don't know." And if I have a PR, then I'm still going to answer "I don't know.", because I'm not going to tell you my role genius! At best, this gives you something you can try to use to look like a scum tell, but regardless of alignment or role, you are not going to get a "Yes" answer from this question.
1. I'll agree that asking someone's alignment is not super helpful - at the same stage, if you've played more than two games here on site you also have to be blatantly aware that this empty question is asked often, and is often asked by town. So I don't get the point in bothering to even talk about it, because as far as I've ever been able to tell asking it is NAI. Yeah?

2. This isn't a particularly valid rebuttal. Your slot is under a lot of stress even with a theory Cop clear arguing in your defense. It is under this stress, to a large part, because of how that '2' stuff went down. As a player, if you are town, it should be relatively simple to try to assess if that was a crumb and the reasoning for it with your role, and it's hardly a shock that you are looking like a likely lynch and should be getting emotionally ready to reveal your role if not already doing so.

Why are you dogging so hard on Cheeky for asking 1. A NAI question and 2. A very valid question?
Hell, pretty sure I asked #2 as well - don't recall you crawling up my leg about it.
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Post Post #3199 (isolation #108) » Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:08 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 3198, BuJaber wrote:I didn't remember you listing reasons for why Menno is town, I went back and it seems you sort of do because he tried to start a wagon on me EoD1 but your main points recently are that there are slots that you think are better lynches, correct?
Yes, that is my main point.
In post 3198, BuJaber wrote:I'm surprised you can actually townread the slot. Like I can see why some might not think the slot is scummy, but I can't see how it can be anything better than a null. Unless cheeky is confirmed scum there's no reason to townread sky/menno. And even if cheeky is scum, all we know is he's not on her scumteam.
This then accelerates off to not attack my main point, nor even my stance.
In post 3198, BuJaber wrote:If it's not about him but about other slots being scummier.. I'm not really seeing scum!NDS here.. and Tails I agree with but I think he will be lynched without my vote anyway so I'm interested in seeing who else he will suspect for pushing him. Also it will feel sweeter for his wagon to get hammered without me.
Why do you not see NDS scum? What are your thoughts on my wagon analysis considering now the new claims we have?
WHat are your thoughts on that slots actual contributions?

So you think Tails is scum, and fully expect him to be lynched by others so you can analyze that yet don't see how avoiding that wagon is then a very valid thing for me to analyze? I don't follow this point.
In post 3198, BuJaber wrote:And on the off chance he is town somehow happy to keep giving himself the excuse of not reading, this gives me a chance to learn more about how he thinks. If he thinks I am scum but I don't vote him and enough people do vote him he will have to explain it somehow in his mind. The only two possibilities from his pov would be that town all got deceived and mislead into voting him or that my hypothetical partners will have to join the wagon to make up for my missing vote.

If we're going to play together again sometime disecting his thought process could come in handy.
I don't see how this is relevant to pushing a counter wagon on him.
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Post Post #3201 (isolation #109) » Wed Oct 24, 2018 9:11 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 3158, BuJaber wrote:Please post a picture of your face when I flip. Just please do it.
In post 3159, BuJaber wrote:I've cut down the sugar I consume this would be like a substitution to me. So delicious.
In post 3160, BuJaber wrote:Actually wait you have an easy out. "I didn't read any of your posts".

Nvm your face will just be like :|

Anyone else voting me.. like cheeky and gamma who have actually played with me before and know my style.
In post 3161, BuJaber wrote:Even if you think I didn't obvtown because I'm a master manipulator.



My crumbs are so obvious that I'm regreting posting them.
Also, though i try really hard nowadays to be less of a troll, or to even do things that come across as a troll since I apparently piss off people by being friendly yet disagreeing politely - I do feel a need for this joke, *ahem*;

"The above are posts of someone looking to analyze Tails for future awareness of playstyle."
:neutral:
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Post Post #3208 (isolation #110) » Thu Oct 25, 2018 2:50 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 3203, BuJaber wrote:Thor the Tora thing is based on d1.. d2 disappearance is fishy, but I'm willing to give him a chance to return and explain. For someone who tryhards and spamposts as both alignments I think we can assume there's some reason he cannot post.
Nancy's posting hasn't been stellar I guess I would agree with that but nothing has jumped out as particularly scummy enough to offset my d1 read of Tora.
I haven't called Tora not being here scummy.
I agree that nancy hasn't been posting like town.
I disagree that Day 1 Tora looked particularly townish and would challenge you to put that read into words.
What do you think of my wagon analysis?
In post 3203, BuJaber wrote:@Thor - what's your point.. obviously Tails has got me riled up but me not voting him = he lives longer = posts more = more info to analyze his style/thoughtprocess
My point is that's unconnected with you voting him, and you're not trying to generate actually insightful discussions so I don't really see the point.
If you think what you're generating will help you read him in other games - rock on. But I don't think it will :)
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Post Post #3210 (isolation #111) » Thu Oct 25, 2018 3:52 am

Post by Thor665 »

Your current working theory being scum would get pictures and town get videos?
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Post Post #3212 (isolation #112) » Thu Oct 25, 2018 3:55 am

Post by Thor665 »

I mean, even just extrapolating that thought;

"Porkens got image of HoB because he was looking for HoB"
"Maybe a video of bro and sis being hunted by HoB is because your target is HoB looking for them"

Would that make sense to your current thought process for how the clues work?

The 2 thing is really weird and really seems like a HoB crumb, yeah?
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Post Post #3213 (isolation #113) » Thu Oct 25, 2018 3:55 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 3211, Toogeloo wrote:I'm busy until October 30th, just keeping up with reading for now. We need more flips and less dead horse kicking. 100+ pages is tiring for a game only in Day 2.
Welcome to a Large where, for better or worse, a LR decided to, functionally, grant us a 2nd Day 1. :lol:
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Post Post #3254 (isolation #114) » Thu Oct 25, 2018 6:25 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 3214, Chickadee wrote:This is more in line with what I'm thinking. But the vibe of the videos very much rings town to me. How do you feel about the language in the second video? Simon talks about saving river. I feel like if someone were looking for them, an image would suffice, so I feel like the audio is important. And the fact there's two videos.
Frankly, when I watched the video my thought was 'it's a Simon' video because of the line 'It's me' he says.
You got a hard River take.
Apparently RR gets a hard HoB take.

It makes me suspect that the videos as evidence are really problematic.
In post 3225, BuJaber wrote:First since you didn't mention Jingle here, what is your position regarding Jingle, for completeness.
Town.
In post 3225, BuJaber wrote:Just so it's clear to me, and/or I missed it, how do you explain his behavior towards Elsa's crumbing and later role reveal from scum!Tora's pov? SvT, SvS, buddies, or Sv3p. Also what do you think he gains from defending Elsa if Elsa is not on his team.
You don't need to explain his behavior as from scum because his behavior is meaningless on alignment.
He points out, accurately, that the 3p's wincon is not against town's wincon. Equally so (and not discussed by him overly much), it would not be against scum's wincon either.
His willingness and desire to out her as a known quantity is, as he has shown clear awareness, a general boon to his wincon regardless of his alignment, and I believe he is honest in his attitude expressed there. If you believe that also, it is non-alignment relevant because as scum he would make the same argument.
In post 3225, BuJaber wrote:Okay I admit I didn't take your wagon analysis seriously earlier because I saw my name among the list.. but a d1 wagon in a large and probably multiball game on a traitor has to include scum... but also given how many people we can eliminate from the pool based on claims then we also have a really really good chance at lynching scum if we lynch randomly off wagon, let alone if we actually lynch a scummy slot off wagon. Would you agree to that? Like how many scum do you imagine are on the wagon, when 4 out of the 9 are 2 masons, 1 LR, 1 3p doc, and then you and me assuming you're town puts it at 6 out of 9. Even if we ignore the CT townread (which we shouldn't) Mathematically we probably have more scum off the wagon.
With the 9v8 setup you'd argue that any given slot has a 47% chance to be scum.
If you can shift it to a 50% chance it's a better lynch than random.
In post 3235, Reasonably Rational wrote:We will lynch flicker(until someone explains the thing about what we discussed earlier that makes them town) or Tails.
That is as far as we will compromise. That is, not at all.

-Cerb
Why do you hard town the NDS slot?
In post 3245, Tails wrote:
In post 3212, Thor665 wrote:The 2 thing is really weird and really seems like a HoB crumb, yeah?
I agree it's weird, but I really want someone to explain why Nico would crumb scum and then do jack all to follow up on that play.
As discussed earlier - it is known that the Traitor did not know his partners. It is not known that the partners did not know the Traitor/did not know there was a Traitor; therefore they crumbed in order to allow the Traitor to aid them/crumb back and identify himself.

With an awareness of your and his role PM - are you claiming the 2 thing is absolutely not a crumb?
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Post Post #3256 (isolation #115) » Thu Oct 25, 2018 6:42 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 3255, Tails wrote:
In post 3254, Thor665 wrote: As discussed earlier - it is known that the Traitor did not know his partners. It is not known that the partners did not know the Traitor/did not know there was a Traitor; therefore they crumbed in order to allow the Traitor to aid them/crumb back and identify himself.
My issue with this theory is that Nico did not follow up on this after her introduction. At least some indication, however slight, that would show that she'd be looking for a traitor. But she essentially grudge voted RR then prod dodged until finally flaking. If she was crumbing, I'd still expect at least a bit more effort.
In post 3254, Thor665 wrote: With an awareness of your and his role PM - are you claiming the 2 thing is absolutely not a crumb?
I have no idea what that is.
Why would you expect more effort from a slot I presume you are arguing honest flaked 100%?

That's not the question I asked you - I asked a yes/no question of 'is that 2 thing absolutely not a crumb?'
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Post Post #3271 (isolation #116) » Thu Oct 25, 2018 8:53 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 3257, Tails wrote:I'm trying to understand the rationale of somebody that looks at an opening post and declares it a crumb, without anything else backing it up.
It was blatantly either an inside joke or a crumb (or Nico needs to seek professional help - but I don't think that's the case).
No one is 'getting' the joke.
Ergo - more likely a crumb, yeah?
In post 3260, BuJaber wrote:@Thor & Tails - Because the chance off wagon is likely higher than 50%, given how many non-scum we have on wagon.

Assuming we have at least 4 living scum.
That's starting to confuse probability with percentage chance - and it also presumes all your reads are right.
We already know for a fact there is at least one non-town on (Elsa) and two off (Porkens and Mala).
With, again presuming the 9 town theory, thus 5 non-town remaining.
Probability actually suggests more are on the wagon due to what assured non-town claims we have (town are unlikely to be claiming non-town so pretty much their alignment claims are 100% while the other claims are not).

I would suggest that means the real question is, why aren't you hard suspecting some of the claims *or* why aren't you voting one of the 'meh' reads from the wagon?

Oh, look, there's that NDS wagon, it looks awfully attractive there across the bar and so very alone, you should ask it if it would like to dance.
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Post Post #3277 (isolation #117) » Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:21 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 3273, BuJaber wrote:
In post 3271, Thor665 wrote:
We already know for a fact there is at least one non-town on (Elsa) and two off (Porkens and Mala).
You're calculating just pure odds here right? Not factoring in claims, reads, and your own alignment? Because I don't understand how you get more scum on wagon than off.
I bolded and snipped to clarify where I get the info for more scum on than off.
In post 3273, BuJaber wrote:And what claims would I suspect?
I would suggest "all of them" insomuch as even if you decide to run with a read there nothing is proven. I'm doing that myself, but I'm not daft enough to suggest it's 100% accurate.
In post 3273, BuJaber wrote:We're basically going round and round only to return to you wanting me to vote for NDS. And I can't give you that at this time.
I know, there's a lot of resistance there for slim reasons from people.
In post 3273, BuJaber wrote:I'm thinking off wagon is better so the on-wagon rationale won't convince me... just wait for Tora to post again and focus on why we should vote NDS.
I've offered a rather wide range of reasons, do I need to repeat them for you?
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Post Post #3349 (isolation #118) » Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:26 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 3282, Tails wrote:@Thor: I don't think Nancy is happening. Who's your second choice?
Ari or maybe RR would be my next preferred. I'd probably compromise onto McMeeno.
Considering what Jingle just said about their thoughts on our roles and my expected thoughts on your flip maybe you :lol:
In post 3285, Reasonably Rational wrote:@Thor: Forgot to quote, sorry. I am not hard towning NDS. I am, however, unwilling to vote anywhere that I believe is less likely to find scum than Flicker and Tails, and NDS falls into that category(as does McMenno).
:neutral:
In post 3344, Reasonably Rational wrote:@Gamma: Really Gamma? Mental gymnastics? Please tell me you're capable of saying more than that in an attempt to dissuade me from a position I'm holding.
As someone who has been basically agreeing with Gamma's thoughts here, allow me to tag team in.

You do appear to be bending hard to suggest scum results.
Movies lack HoB - so video is unconnected in that way.
Video results from claimed cop that just show Serenity crew over and over - it's because scum are coming after them.
Nico played like a derphead in a game, ergo she was not lurking and was content to game throw or something so would do anything in this game (while doing spit all and flaking out).

Every piece of evidence is somehow evidence for your case, and that's the core evidence of a tunnel.

I agree that the '2' thing is suspect as hell, there is a big issue there and I haven't been thrilled by any answers that explain it away.
But I find it unlikely a maf would fake a cop to protect a buddy, and the cop result is a *stretch* to call a scum result.
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Post Post #3350 (isolation #119) » Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:27 pm

Post by Thor665 »

Like, if Nico/Tails is not town, they gotta basically be a 3p Simon/River or something.
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Post Post #3351 (isolation #120) » Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:28 pm

Post by Thor665 »

Or Chick is derp scum.
But, meh, Chick decided to sign a death warrant if scum have any ability to pop through a Doc protect, so what are the odds of that?
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Post Post #3441 (isolation #121) » Sat Oct 27, 2018 7:28 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 3353, Reasonably Rational wrote:
In post 3350, Thor665 wrote:Like, if Nico/Tails is not town, they gotta basically be a 3p Simon/River or something.
Please explain how you arrive at this conclusion. It seems to rely upon Chick being honest. But if it
does
rely on that, it also has a huge logical flaw.

Chick's supposed day one cop was TPFKAP and the clue was not in any way related to the actual character that TPFKAP was... except that A50 decided to make Dobson aware that the HoB teams exist and aligned him with them. In terms of the show/movie ... there's no connection between Dobson and HoB.

So if the
first
clue didn't show the actual character ... why do you assume the second does?

~D
Lot to unpack here - in order;

I arrive at the core conclusion of Chick being honest for the reasons I already said - please describe to me, in presumed multiple kills multiball, his scum strategy behind claiming what he did. I'll wait.

It is quite possible the clues show faction - in which case showing HoB and showing Serenity crew is a very functional clue that is internally self consistent.
I agree that within the show/movie Dobson and HoB aren't connected - since the flip shows that in this game they are connected this is a meaningless note with no connection to what I'm saying (other than as a valid rebuttal to Cheeky deciding River couldn't be 3p)

I do not assume this. that said, I *do* assume that it is more likely that clues showing nothing but Serenity crew is more likely to suggest a town aligned target - which I'll agree is different from your theory that showing Serenity crew apparently means that's who scum are hunting ergo scum role PM. Ockhams feels very much on my side here, and at the very least if you can make the leap you did I am curious why you're so freaked out by my leap?

The claim is meh for not having targeting listed initially.
So now it's crappy claim and crappy 2 thing vs. Cop claim video interpretation.
I'll do this and suggest a bodyguard should be living on the Daycop;

VOTE: Aristophanes
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Post Post #3443 (isolation #122) » Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:40 pm

Post by Thor665 »

Yeah, except mine is far more likely.
Scum images = scum
Town images = town.

Yours is less likely
Scum images = scum
Town images = scum

You see those as identically likely?
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Post Post #3444 (isolation #123) » Sat Oct 27, 2018 8:41 pm

Post by Thor665 »

Also, as mentioned and you didn't rebuff - Chick is more likely town, so the info is more likely factual about what the results were.
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Post Post #4685 (isolation #124) » Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:33 am

Post by Thor665 »

Fun game, good playerlist, probably too townsided. I hear A50's arguments for 'different plays' but I don't think I fully buy them.
At the very least both Mala's and my role needed easier wincons.
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Post Post #4726 (isolation #125) » Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:41 am

Post by Thor665 »

In post 4699, Almost50 wrote::lol:

Just .. |A Blood-Thirsty Sylvester Stallone" themed game. Characters Mr Stallone played in his long career. You all get to be Sylvester. :lol:
Dibs on Oscar.
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Post Post #4754 (isolation #126) » Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:43 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 4743, Almost50 wrote:My problem with Strongman is it will always resolve, meaning the strongest Town player will always leave the game on N1. It also defies the protective best guess, so even if they do outguess the killer's choice they still can't do anything about it.
The entire point of scum being able to win is based on their ability to remove threats from the game.
Scum shouldn't be obligated to shoot lurksacks.
It was why as an SK I kept pointing at secondary targets - I was expecting groupscum to shoot Masons and Cops.
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Post Post #4758 (isolation #127) » Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:12 pm

Post by Thor665 »

In post 4755, Almost50 wrote:Next time remember:

If you want something done right, you gotta do it yourself.
Nah, you have to expect people to play things correctly, otherwise you're playing WIFOM with your kills, which you can't afford to do as an SK.
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Post Post #4760 (isolation #128) » Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:41 pm

Post by Thor665 »

That was the beauty of the EJ kill - he'd spewed enough that it was a viable Vig kill, and it was the removal of a protective role which was beneficial to me.
Town block was already too big to afford popping off at a null read.
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