Overkill 1: Serenity/Firefly (GAME OVER)
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1 day and 20 pages?
Yeah - I'm skipping all of that.
Off of Page 1 I liked Elsa and Toranaga.
Is anyone in quickMjolnir range yet?- Thor665
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Then let's give someone that power;
Vote:Reasonably Rational- Thor665
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So off RR's own personal count that's L-2-3?
Let's get another vote!
Pedit: @randommidget - because town hasn't put someone to L-1 to force a claim yet. Want to help out? We're random wagoning the random guy.- Thor665
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How do you feel about Flicker potentially mischaracterizing BuJaber while defending your slot?In post 499, Reasonably Rational wrote:
To be fair, I'm at L-2 now, and they expressed awareness of the risk of putting me at L-1.In post 497, Flicker wrote:VOTE: BuJaber
I don't like how he's shading RR without voting them and trying to push through a lynch so quickly when we have more than 13 days left to make a decision. I also know from having followed much of Secret Hitler that he can seem really towny and reasonable while actually being top scum (i.e. Hitler).
-Cerb
What do you consider to be a solid wagon at this stage?In post 507, Chickadee wrote:I don't get the RR wagon. It's far too flimsy to have this many votes.
What are you doing to make a solid wagon that deserves a lot of votes?- Thor665
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Any game that can have 20 pages of RVS in 24 hours needs some dead bodies.
Anyone who doesn't see that is being silly.- Thor665
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Meh.In post 512, Chickadee wrote:I just think it's too early to be pushing people to claims on flimsy reasoning. The more roles we push out, the more it helps scum.
I'd support a total massclaim Day 1 and would consider it pro-town even with the Overkill in the title.
Also - what about the reasoning do you find particularly flimsy?
Awesome!In post 513, Reasonably Rational wrote: We left RVS on post 5 or whatever, whenever RC made his mason claim and people voted him for it. Claiming otherwise is simply disingenuous.
What is your solid and non-RVS top case then?
If you don't have one I'm going to feel like you're blowing smoke up my butt.- Thor665
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What makes you think that?In post 516, Toranaga wrote:I hate thor's comment on RVS too. I'm not sure it's alignment indicative for him, but it's weirdly disingenuous and not a real thought he had.
Pretty sure I've always been on open record that Day 1 in a Large is trash posting.- Thor665
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There's a ton of info, but functionally mining it in a real way is pretty meaningless. It's trash until we get flips. To get flips we need deaths. Ergo - let's move on, or are you claiming we need more than 20 pages of info at this stage to get a flip? Do we need 40? 80? 7,543? All of them have "info" but at what point does town malaise and empty signals overcome the claimed "info" benefit?In post 521, Toranaga wrote:well it's not. there's a ton of information in this thread and some people are strong hitting their town metas so far from what I know of their games. you were making reads here yourself. I don't get your RVS comment, it's wrong and IDK what to make of it. feels like criticizing things for the sake of it.
I submit it's *WAY* earlier than you think it is.
I disagree that I'm making reads. I'm just trying to get people to say some things so I can make reads later.
You didn't answer my question of why you think I don't believe what I'm saying. You're successfully stating why you believe what you think about the quality of these pages - but I didn't ask that.- Thor665
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I mean, if you think attacking something for the sake of attacking it is an issue...I think I just proved you're doing exactly that.
Self vote?- Thor665
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Yeah...are you trying to argue those are particularly valuable reads?In post 526, Toranaga wrote:
is this not making reads, thor?In post 479, Thor665 wrote:1 day and 20 pages?
Yeah - I'm skipping all of that.
Off of Page 1 I liked Elsa and Toranaga.
Is anyone in quickMjolnir range yet?
Awesome, now you're just empty insulting me for my stance rather than answering my question functionally?In post 527, Toranaga wrote:
I don't think you believe what you're saying because you're intelligentIn post 524, Thor665 wrote:
You didn't answer my question of why you think I don't believe what I'm saying. You're successfully stating why you believe what you think about the quality of these pages - but I didn't ask that.
So, basically, you disagree with my stance, and I'm stupid for having it if I believe it - therefore I'm lying.
I have a new read on you now- Thor665
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@Mod
By this point you're now starting to debate a definition with me to take umbrage at my statement, yeah?In post 530, Toranaga wrote:20 pages of RVS is objectively untrue and taken by the fact you were drawing leans from page 1, you know this
I'm not insulting you. I'd be insulting you if I didn't take issue with you.
What if instead of saying RVS I'd said 'Day 1 blather'? Would your point still hold?
If your answer is no - what's your actual issue here?
Blerpity blerp - I'mma saying a lot of nothing here.In post 529, Reasonably Rational wrote:With regards to your previous question about my top non-RVS case: I'll let my other head catch up and discuss things with him to see where he stands. His RC position is a valid one that I largely agree with. The logic used by Cheeky to push Toranaga resonates with me still, even if she's been assuaged. I do dislike Elsa's reasons for their votes. Nobody else has done anything that I view as scummy right now. I do need to reread, because as I said before I missed some things previously, so obviously I haven't been as diligent as I'd like.
-Cerb
So your case is: I sorta agree with some other cases but I'm not caught up and neither is my other head (almost as though 20 pages of derp isn't helpful in a strange and mystical way that some sexy bearded person suggested but I needed to disagree with to try to pretend to look townish).
Got it- Thor665
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Maybe it was lack of the space as he ctrl+F'd through the 20 pages of totally awesome and super good info?
Vote: Reasonably Rational- Thor665
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VOTE: Reasonably Rational
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I feel like I do understand your position, allow me to play back our conversation to help you understand mine;In post 545, Reasonably Rational wrote:I'm fully caught up. 100%. What I haven't done is read through the game hypercritically with the intent of finding suspicious behavior that doesn't immediately jump out at me. I've just been reading along and responding organically, as things come up and occur to me. I independently dislike the reasons Elsa gives for their votes. I agree with Cheeky's statement that I expect town!Toranaga to be vocal and aggressive and accidentally end up leading things. I agree with my other heads only stated position, that RC's early posting is reasonable for town!RC.
Did reiterating this help you understand at all?
Thor: Day 1 is narf, we in RVS.
You: We are absolutely not in RVS, to say otherwise is a lie!
Thor: Then what's your non-RVS case?
You: Here's a bunch of half formed thoughts I kinda agree with - I've not relly been reading enough to have anything other than off the cuff reactions.
Thor:
Did reiterating this help you understand at all?- Thor665
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@Stargazer - Yeah, Toranaga is a decent vote.
What do you think of Reasonably though? He's kind of doing the same thing as Toranaga - attacking stuff in an empty "don't this look town way" without actual legit concepts behind the empty stuff he's spewing.
I think that slot is probably worse than Tor on that front, frankly.- Thor665
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Are you a 3rd party Doc or a Doc who only protects from 3rd party kills?In post 578, Elsa Jay wrote:Just living until the end. Nothing too special.
Oh, and I can't be roleblocked, so there MAY be a roleblocker. Just satin.- Thor665
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With Elsa's claim I'll be pretty impressed if he's scum. He's basically only playing "okay" as scum if he is a Mafia Doc and wants to be town driven. If there are multiple killers probably one will want to tag him (and if he's a mafia doc there are multiple kill powers basically by definition) so...In post 583, Skygazer wrote:@thor:
I agree with your assessment on RR but im not a fan of like half of the wagon's posting so far (tw, tor, nico, elsa). Between those four I think there's a good chance of the wagon being scum driven
Tor is trash, yeah.
Don't have an opinion on the other two.
Eh, play your side game, I don't oppose it, just wanted to ramp up on RR.
Will be interesting to see some other wincons as you feel like you'd have to be pigeonholed with town unless you're lying about your wincon.
But I won't help lynch you today, so huzzah.- Thor665
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Not when most non-town factions tend to get to their endgame by killing things.
Also, even if your endgame is 'survive' doesn't mean you're necessarily compatible with other wincons (like, say an SK whose wincon is generally 'be the last living slot'.
Making your protect public fiat is a decent ploy to try to make that work for you also, might work, if I were you I'd try to ally more with the town though - town wincon and your claimed wincon remain the most likely to be compatible unless you know something I don't.- Thor665
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Leaning Toogeloo as town for the Elsa push - that's a pretty ridiculous angle to go at as scum unless you can't read a room for spit. I think he can read a room.
@RC - you always scumread me, so I get that - but what makes Elsa scum and me her partner? That feels like you took a long bong hit and said the first thing that popped into your mind.- Thor665
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I also think people are mistaking derp wagon push with scum pushing a wagon in the RC votes.
Not really excited by that.- Thor665
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Since you're both still going to be here - I'd like a link to this please.In post 777, RadiantCowbells wrote:Also as I pointed out Toranaga the last time he played with a survivor was insistient that the proper approach to survivor was to PL them because you can't trust anyone without a town role PM.
I'd also like to remind you that I asked how Elsa/Thor made sense to you - still curious.
I don't particularly want to agree with RC, but I think the "proscum" Toranaga comment does look like a legit slip.
Do you think RC would replace out as town to save the integrity of a town slot?In post 933, CheekyTeeky wrote:Do you believe scum RC would play dirty by using a rep out as scum to save any integrity on a scum slot? Do you believe that scum RC would've given up?
With an awareness that I skipped 20 pages;In post 970, Nancy Drew Shogunate wrote:Hi guys, I’m glad I got into to this game, thanks to Tora agreeing to hydra with me. He hasn’t caught me up yet, so I’ll have to figure out what’s been going on. Anyone care to catch me up? That would definitely speed things up. Thanks.
RC did a derpy mason claim apparently.
Elsa was caught out crumbing by Tor and has claimed to be, functionally, a Survivor with a Doc power.
Beyond that it's mostly spew trash posting that if you want real reads from you need to scan some spew and apply your own opinions about what constitutes scummy or pro town play.
Current;y I'd be pretty happy lynching yours or Rational's slot, Mala also.
I'd generally rather not lynch Elsa, the worst, Bujabber, and Stargazer.
I'd be content to lynch about the rest of the game.
You should blind sheep me.- Thor665
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Serves as a decent rebuttal to Cheeky's defense if true.In post 989, the worst wrote:
*raises hand*In post 988, Thor665 wrote:Do you think RC would replace out as town to save the integrity of a town slot?
eye witness
Unless the argument is RC would replace out strategically as one alignment but never another.- Thor665
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I'm not voting you.In post 997, Nancy Drew Shogunate wrote:Lololol, I’m not ever going to sheep a vote on me.
So sheep me.
I don't see a lot of value in debating whether I believe it or not.In post 998, Nancy Drew Shogunate wrote:P.edit. Forgot the mason thing. Do you believe it? Why or why not? @Thor
I don't have any interest in using it as a scum or town case.
How does me listing you as a town read translate to trying to pocket you exactly?In post 1012, Skygazer wrote:Thor, you trying to pocket me? I haven't seen anything from me that I'd describe as town on this site tbh
That's not what pocketing is.
What's her scum range?In post 1066, Nancy Drew Shogunate wrote:NSG naturally posting in the thread makes her town. it's not a hard read cause her town/scum ranges are imbalanced.- Thor665
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Okay.In post 1102, Nancy Drew Shogunate wrote:I don’t “blindly” sheep anyone ever. I always make my own decisions
Visually and as your decision - sheep me?- Thor665
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I think Mala is a fine vote, but RR is spending a lot of effort to say nothing while Mala is using minor effort to say nothing - I consider the former more scummy.
Why Mala (whom your partner is currently voting) over RR?- Thor665
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That depends, are you scum?In post 1121, TPFKAP wrote:IS THIS GAME WORTH READING?- Thor665
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Then it's a simple question of how do you scumhunt and I am left wondering why ypou need other people to explain if your scumhunting benefits from back reading or active gameplay to you.In post 1145, TPFKAP wrote:
noIn post 1122, Thor665 wrote:
That depends, are you scum?In post 1121, TPFKAP wrote:IS THIS GAME WORTH READING?
Do you not understand your town play, or is this a reaction test (wherein I think the only reaction you're going to get is indifference or people who love back reading demanding you do so)
To me this all feels like a way for you to post and do nothing.
I'mma call you scum over it.
Prove me wrong?- Thor665
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Let's presume for a moment that 100% guranteed Elsa is a Mafia Doc.In post 1151, Reasonably Rational wrote:This is the only time I'm going to say this, because I don't think we need to kill Elsa now, but...
I want everyone who knows the flavor, and realizes that this game seems designed to have many killing roles on both/all sides(depending on single/multiball), to consider this.
Is it more likely that Simon is a neutral doctor, or that the Alliance, who has multiple doctors and is likely scum, has a scum doctor.
Just...
Think about that.
End setup/spec.
-Cerb
What is her theoretical path to victory that has you concerned considering this is Day 1 in a Large and the odds of there being more than 1 killing role is basically also 100% - especially if she is, as you fear, a Mafia Doc?
This is more empty fearmongering gak and info blather with no actual valid point behind it.
Yet for some reason people aggressively are town reading you for this.
It's very frustrating.
I note that the first sentence is *very much* needed in order to make the second claim, which is pretty silly then. I've not been shy in describing my opinion.In post 1157, Nancy Drew Shogunate wrote:I didn't work on either ISO and didn't re-read anything so these are my impressions from just reading the thread in real time.
[snip]
I don't think thor believes asking nancy to sheep him will give him a reasonable read on nancy. and I don't think he is doing so because he strongly believes whoever he is voting is scum (I don't even know who he was voting then, it's how superficial he was about it).
Interesting, so even though I've called you 'trash' and noted explicitly that you're spending a lot of time to say very little your conclusion is that Thor would never think this of you (why?) and that I should "act smarter" when trying to parse you. Which ignores that you've been avoiding me until directly asked about me, and wasted almost a third of our time together in a rage wall with RC, and has you complaining that I'm not trying to parse your partner in a way you understand (while blatantly ignoring that parsing her counts as parsing you).In post 1157, Nancy Drew Shogunate wrote:I also don't really expect thor to call my play "trash" in this game. I don't think I'm behaving any differently than the other games I had with thor, and even if I was, I expect him to act smarter when trying to parse me out.
Why are you being intentionally obtuse to toss sideways mud on me off such thin tells?
I like this.In post 1213, CheekyTeeky wrote:
What do you think about TPFKAP's presence?In post 1207, Flicker wrote:VOTE: NicoRobin
I find her thread presence (or rather, lack thereof) highly unsatisfactory.
What is your expectation of all the scum wincons?In post 1243, Toogeloo wrote:Elsa playing like a 3rd party sheep, surprise surprise. And that new role info too...
People are insane for even remotely thinking Elsa won't stab town in the back. If we mislynch even a couple of times, we'll hit a point of no return to remove third party Survivor from the game. But apparently we have no power roles to help game solve during the night phase and we need to know all the scumz by the end of day 1, so let's ignore the claimed scum (yes Survivor is still scum, any non town alignment is), and cross our fingers, am I right?
Like, literally all that needs to exist to bone Elsa is an SK - whose wincon is generally "be the last thing alive" whose wincon directly opposes a Survivor wincon for Elsa to basically be boned very quickly. And, incidentally, also falls into an issue for RR's silly "mafia doc!" fear.
Why are you sweating this before a night phase has passed?- Thor665
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At the time he bore into you as a lynch candidate people were *very* okay with you. It's not what i'd expect from scum.In post 1255, Elsa Jay wrote:Seriously, can we evaluate Toogeloo next? My sanity won't take much more.
Compare/contrast with how RR went into you after Toog made his play - incidentally what I would expect from scum.
I'd guess the slot is distracted town running on policy rails - don't think there's a lot of gold there unless you have some angle I'm not seeing.- Thor665
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As long as we ignore the first half of his ISO I'd agree with you, but if we ignore the second half then RR could argue Toog was doing nothing but focus on him.
Seems pretty weak - you're a Survivor, so I get the idea of wanting to lynch a guy that wants you dead, but I don't see the scum concept there.- Thor665
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I personally think it really falls more into my original point about the slot that he's posting stuff to seem active while not actually doing anything.In post 1271, Elsa Jay wrote:Guess its hard to explain my perspective there to you, but fine.
So your thoughts on TPF not even knowing it was Multiball then? Because that just screams scum not paying attention.
If you want me to repeat that I find the slot scummy I'll do so - the new info is hardly shocking to anyone who has been paying attention to that slot though.- Thor665
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I'd be happy voting them, was hoping to get more engagement from the RR town readers, but I'll run a counter Nico wagon for lulz.In post 1273, Elsa Jay wrote:Then this seems like an arbitrary question to ask, but... Would You like to vote them?
VOTE: TPFKAP- Thor665
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It's best summed up here;In post 1288, Jingle wrote:Hey Thor, is there a particular reason your beard is against the Nico wagon, or for the Jumble of Letters wagon, that I should be aware of?
viewtopic.php?p=10476959#p10476959
The long version is "I kinda squint at an activity based attack when there is a blatant active lurker present, and see much town gain (and no town negativity) in creating a counter lurker lynch so there is info to mine post flip".
Help out?
Cool, sure, I can agree with that as long as we ignore his 3p fearmongering - but I'll give you that as a debate point.In post 1289, Jingle wrote:FWIW, my impression is that he's the most reasonable and rational player in the game so far.
What has he done other than try to look reasonable and rational? Like, what actual game advancement behavior are you seeing? Because I've got nothing - we've had replacements who've done more, and yet RR is a constant presence, a reliable poster, and is talking a lot.
Think about that for a moment.
Considering that TPFKAP *literally Beetlejuiced* and also looks like an actual active lurk why are you not voting him and instead voting a slot you appear to agree looks like a likely flake out?In post 1300, Flicker wrote:TPFKAP's (lack of presence) wasn't great, either, but I'll give her a pass for now and assume she's being genuine in having shown up late.
By contrast, Nico's posting bothers me because she was clearly present at the start of the game, had at least a little sense of what was going on, and then disappeared. Honestly, I half-hoped adding my vote to the pile would Beetlejuice her and reveal that she's been lurking and deliberately holding back (in a way that would definitely be scummy). I guess it's possible she's busy or overwhelmed with the volume of the game so far, but right now her ISO just seems really off. I'd also support a policy lynch for lurking, no matter what reasons she may have.- Thor665
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I have such a reverse opinion of all of that from what you do.In post 1307, Jingle wrote:Eh. TPFKAPOSOJGNKDL or whatever the name is seems more town from what's in ISO than NR. Also, possible towntell.
What in that ISO is town seeming to you?
They are not.In post 1307, Jingle wrote:Why start counterwagoning there instead of on someone who is pushing one lurker over another? Are all such people above suspicion?
One of them, for example, is TPFKAP.
So...
Vote RR and I'll move back, I was lonely and it was going nowhere so it wasn't doing me a lot of good.In post 1307, Jingle wrote:Agreed on the RR front. He has many mouthnoises, but nothing to suggest alignment from what I recall. I liked your presence on his wagon for your alignment a lot better than your presence on NR's.
Stop half wagon analyzing.
1. Are you kidding me?In post 1314, Flicker wrote:1) Where did TFPKAP Beetlejuice into the thread? I haven't interpreted any of her appearances like that.
2) I also wouldn't characterize her as an active lurker, at least not yet. Even if it was a case of active lurker vs non-active lurker, there's still slightly more in TFPKAP's ISO I like (post 738 and a general gut feeling).
3) I don't agree Nico's a likely flake out, just that it's a possibility.
viewtopic.php?p=10477815#p10477815
viewtopic.php?p=10477883#p10477883
That is 66% of his posting today, prior to that he acted like multiball was a confusing and new concept to place a meaningless vote, yet he's following enough of today to know instantly when he's voted? How do you define Beetlejuice exactly?
2. I can't argue with 'gut feeling' and I'll agree you noted his best post by far. If there had been any follow up on that or his stated reads in 962 or even just anything at all resembling that he gives a damn to find scum I'd be on board with you. But that is an empty and super shallow ISO despite being much larger than other ISOs.
3. Sounds like a po-tay-to po-tah-to to me. Want to make a wager on it? If the slot flakes you promise to sheep me the rest of the day, and if it doesn't I'll agree with your gut read on TKASAGSP? I'm game if you are.- Thor665
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1. Do you disagree with me that it's odd that he is posting with confusion about multiball but apparently hanging around and active reading what's happening? You don't see any suspicion with that as a playstyle choice?
3. True, but I like sheep- Thor665
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Trying to equate his playstyle to mine is really weird - I clearly am not playing like him, nor have I advocated not understanding the game.In post 1321, Flicker wrote:
Any problem I have with this playstyle is connected to the lack of backreading, which I find confusing. I'm not sure what people gain out of engaging with people that makes it so good for scumhunting they don't need to also catch up on everything that's happened. But apparently that's not AI, since some people just don't backread (including you this game, apparently)?In post 1319, Thor665 wrote:1. Do you disagree with me that it's odd that he is posting with confusion about multiball but apparently hanging around and active reading what's happening? You don't see any suspicion with that as a playstyle choice?
if you agree with me that his timing and confusion paired with keeping up on some things, but not all things is questionable - why are you arguing so hard that he's town off gut?- Thor665
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1. I didn't call his lurking scummy in any way at all - so...redefine your case on me to what I actually said and did, yeah?In post 1324, Nancy Drew Shogunate wrote:porkens' lurking is straight up NAI and he didn't display any confusion about multiball, he just apparently didn't know who was talking about it first.
I called him as active lurking and faking not knowing what's going on in an attempt to avoid doing anything, and noted that he wasn't trying to game solve.
Why do you think i wouldn't find that scummy? It's not from anything I've ever said in any game ever, so...?
2. Are we playing word games? Okay, fine, I clarify my comment of "confused about multiball" to "confused about who instigated multiball discussion and deciding it was a valid scumtell to vote Elsa over" Feel free to explain how that changes anything now that I've used more words to make more specifically clear what he pretended to be confused about.- Thor665
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1. So he doesn't feel like he's showing up and posting nothing? Even though anyone can look at his ISO, see at most 3 scumhunting posts, and blatantly be able to recognize that he never follows up on anything? How would you like to describe his posting if not active lurk? I'kk use other words - but it has to be clear to you he's not actually advancing the game, yeah?In post 1334, Nancy Drew Shogunate wrote:1. he doesn't feel like he is active lurking at all.
2. you're still using the word "confusion" to give porkens' posting some characteristic that isn't there. not knowing who talked about multiball first isn't being confused by it. it's not like porkens suggested someone else did it first, is it?
2. What word would you like me to use? Unawareness? Lack of understanding? Proof/faking of not reading and then acting like it is a scumtell which is nonsensical? I feel like these are all valid and hold to my point?
You didn't explain why you made up meta about me yet either.
As I said to your other head - change it to whatever you like, it's proof he either does (or is faking) lack or awareness/lack of reading/lack of jbowing what's going on even though he's clearly actively following the game but Flicker was backed into a corner by me about that and then fled and everyone is still wasting time on me and will probably town read Flicker, RR, and everyone else about this because as far as I can tell everyone is now using a different rulebook for what qualifies as being "helpful to town in any way at all" and I never got the memo.In post 1335, Nancy Drew Shogunate wrote:how is that faking confusion about anything? I don't see it.
-tor
Like, does this post highlight TPFKAP knowing...anything? Scumhunting anything? What the hell about this pleases you at all? Describe the pro-town plan to me and I'll happily go away, but why are you trying to definition debate me and then acting surprised I find your play trash this game?- Thor665
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I am very frustrated by this response.In post 1336, Flicker wrote:
I'm not. I feel like these points are misrepresentations of what I've said, but I'm tired and my team got shut out today, so with all due respect, I'm done with this conversation.In post 1332, Thor665 wrote:Trying to equate his playstyle to mine is really weird - I clearly am not playing like him, nor have I advocated not understanding the game.
if you agree with me that his timing and confusion paired with keeping up on some things, but not all things is questionable - why are you arguing so hard that he's town off gut?- Thor665
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A) Yes, and?In post 1349, Nancy Drew Shogunate wrote:I can’t speak for Tor but A) you first tell me that you’re scumreading our slot, then demand I “blindly sheep” you on a slot I think could be town. B) I’m not tr Porkens/TPFKAP but as scum, she usually tries to derail in some way, so no blatantly obvious scumtells from her slot yet. You’d be making a mistake, if you think I’m locked in on your wagon. Convince me I’m wrong here. What am I not seeing?
B) How solid is that as a Porkens scumtell for you?
(unlabled) C) How about everything I already pointed out, and that you presented as an issue with me made up meta that I asked you why you believed and you haven't talked to me about but then asked me to talk about your read on me?- Thor665
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You're bringing up pushes that went literally nowhere as evidence that he's not trying to ruffle feathers - if he had advanced any of those reads an inch I might agree with you, but what ruffling are you seeing here?In post 1385, Jingle wrote:Other than the not-a-townslip that we resolved, the reads being specifically on who they were on (RC, CT, Tora) doesn't particularly strike me as scum trying not to ruffle feathers. The NR vote seems more like doesn't give a Smurf than optimistic (NAI) and the beetlejuicing seems more snippy than concerned, which makes that less likely to be of alignment significance imo.
Then you defend not giving a hoot and being snippy as more theoretically pro town than being opportunistic and concerned.
Seriously, I feel like you're desperate grabbing at straws here when Ockham's Razor is sitting right there going 'yo, whassp?'
A very casual look at the posting from that slot over the past week suggests that if it is a scumtell then they're only a scum player in all their games at the moment. :shrug: I don't want to defend the play (unlike your back bend above) but let's at least be honest that if Nico is scummy (and I agree, they're a perfectly acceptable lynch option) than so are some other slots. However other slots are getting weird pushback, which bothers me. Why isn't it pinging you and why are you doing it?In post 1385, Jingle wrote:On the other hand, NR strikes me as aggressively doing Smurfall, especially given that she appears to be posting once every other day. I'm totes down to drown that in a fire, pending a meta dive to determine if that is a town or scum indicative move. You know, after I'm done hitting beehives with a stick to see if anything tasty drops out.
You brought it up, I'd already moved off the wagon.In post 1385, Jingle wrote:Voting RR right now seems like a waste of both of our time. The wagon died, and I don't particularly want it back at the moment, despite the use it had a few days ago. I've seen what RR does under pressure this game, and now I want to let them have their space and see how that changes the things. I'll get back to you if I decide resurrecting the dead wagon is useful, but I'm quite satisfied with the three wagons we have at the moment for now.
The wagon on me is meh for reads because it's still pretty small, it might be derp town and an oportunistic scum, or it might be all town going for reactions. That it petered out at three while Nico remains relatively strong doesn't make it feel particularly scumdriven. I'd wager one at most and Tora would be my bet.In post 1385, Jingle wrote:Speaking of which, what do you think of the votes on you? What are your experience levels with the CT and the members of the Shogunate, or possibly more relevant their experience levels with you?
CT and Toranaga have experience with me, don't think I've ever played with Toranaga's partner (y'know, the one who made a meta claim on me and keeps ducking the question about where they came up with this concept of why I'd play that way, even when they have a partner who does know my playstyle...just saying). I think Cheeky is playing fine. I have issues and doubts on the Toranaaga slot (and that he's half jabbing at me while acting paranoid about his partner being interrogated while she keeps digging a hole triggers me even more on the slot).- Thor665
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Why have the word accurate there?In post 1410, Jingle wrote:And if I could have 10 accurate non null reads this early into my process I’d be way better at this game.- Thor665
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Yeah, just saying accurate feels weird - like, basically even a good player's odds of accurate are only slightly better than random chance would dictate - so why is that even a concern. I'd just call it 'reads' or 'solid reads' or 'confident reads' not 'accurate reads'.In post 1415, Jingle wrote:Eh, I’m pretty sure on 6 town/3p players at the moment and I have a decent scumread. Also, only five players in my null pile, one of which I never plan to directly sort. There’s lots to go on right now.
The language choice seems odd.
The answer sounds like sanity - but doesn't quite explain the word choice for me.- Thor665
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I'm glad people have explained to me that TPFKAP isn't active lurking, otherwise I would get the wrong impression from his play.- Thor665
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7 days left.
9 to lynch.
The biggest wagon is currently a three way tie with three votes each.
People should step up.
We should have got a claim or something this weekend, frankly.- Thor665
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My biggest issue with him is how he's twisting to defend TPFKAP.
I don't town read him.- Thor665
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When did I say that?In post 1482, Elsa Jay wrote:Thor wants to hammer.
In post 1495, Nancy Drew Shogunate wrote:
I don’t know. My strongest scumreads are offwagon. *shrug*In post 1492, CheekyTeeky wrote:If flicker is town, then who is scum on this wagon?
~N
It's like there was the possibility of insight, and then it was stamped upon brutally.
Tor continues to be trash and continues to avoid me.
Him white knighting this wagon makes me think he's statistically more likely to be right about the potential alignment flip. This is based on me thinking he's primary groupscum, natch.- Thor665
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Yeah, that's absolutely a claim that I will hammer randomlyIn post 1498, Elsa Jay wrote:In post 479, Thor665 wrote:1 day and 20 pages?
Yeah - I'm skipping all of that.
Off of Page 1 I liked Elsa and Toranaga.
Is anyone in quickMjolnir range yet?
That and your second post made me slightly cautious. Just saying.
So your saying Tora is scum defending town here? Nani?!
Yes, I am saying exactly that - why is it confusing to you as an idea?
Flicker's claim is early enough to be 'meh' but since it got me a TPFKAP vote as well I'll admit to just deciding 'town enough' and riding this rampage train a bit further.
I'd also do Toranaga. The absolute avoidance of me is triggering me to high heaven, and I'm going to keep mentioning it until other people notice and wagon him up.- Thor665
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So now you claim you don't know how to read me when before you were claiming my comments proved I was scum?In post 1509, Nancy Drew Shogunate wrote:we talked, your opinions are Smurf, IDK how to parse you out and you're confusing me with my hydra partner and not making sense
Magical.
And I'm sorry for "confusing" you with your hydra partner who made up meta on me and you apparently are down with her ducking explaining that while letting her advance that little gem into the discussion
Also, we didn't talk. i talked, you loudly proclaimed me as scum and then started running silent. Even your answer here shows an awareness that you're lying because now you're coming up with this "IDK how to parse Thor" spiel to justify how you weren't interacting with me. Don't spit on my head and tell me it's raining.
Let's say we 100% prove Flicker is a Priest?In post 1510, Elsa Jay wrote:Thor, help Flicker prove her claim. Vote to let her try to self-Hammer.
What does that get us exactly alignment wise?
PEDIT - apparently your goal is to create an IC. Having lack of ability to hammer oneself doesn't make one an IC - but if you feel this way feel free to protect Flicker. I decided not to vote him prior to the claim, and I don't vote town reads because that's not how the game is played.
Fascinating.In post 1512, Nancy Drew Shogunate wrote:"flicker's claim is early enough to be "meh"" from thor is all kinds of puke
Why?- Thor665
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I'm being more forceful than my town play?In post 1517, Nancy Drew Shogunate wrote:you're being a lot more forceful and a very Smurf which is different than the towngames you played with me. IDK if that makes you scum and I said a couple of times I'm not in position to parse you out because my experience with you is limited. this is the first time you make me cringe in a game though, and you're doing it a lot.
-tor
How do you define forceful?
Because it robbed town of getting complete wagon info and hammer intent to mine.In post 1519, Nancy Drew Shogunate wrote:
just how is it "meh"?In post 1516, Thor665 wrote:
Fascinating.In post 1512, Nancy Drew Shogunate wrote:"flicker's claim is early enough to be "meh"" from thor is all kinds of puke
Why?
-tor
How is my opinion "puke"?
You ducked that question really hard.- Thor665
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You either remember wrong or are using really dated references.In post 1526, Nancy Drew Shogunate wrote:you don't push any of these things as hard when town from what I remember of your d1s.
1. It's not changing the definition, and he is doing it.In post 1526, Nancy Drew Shogunate wrote:saying porkens is "active lurking" instead of just not being around is made up. it's changing what "active lurking" means. I'm the towniest slot in the game and you're pushing me cause, afaict, I'm ignoring you and I'm right about stuff, which is nitpicky and playing to cheeky's paranoia if nothing else.
2. I disagree that you're the towniest slot, and even if everyone else agrees with you it is still important I point out issues with that read if I have them.
In post 1526, Nancy Drew Shogunate wrote:"it robbed town of getting complete wagon info" so what you're calling "meh" isn't shading flicker's action. I can see how it did rob town of getting wagon info. I thought you were shading flicker.
-tor
So it was "puke" because you assumed I was attacking someone I'd already indicated I didn't want to lynch.
Wouldn't that just be scummy?
@RR -- Thor665
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@RR
@Elsa
I'm confirmed innocent.
As long as you're taking this tack with my comments.- Thor665
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1. So you're able to sort me again now (albeit doing a really aggressive leap..which might explain why I'm calling your play trash, even though you feel like I'm being terrible and attacking the towniest player in the game...just saying, reality appears to be aligning with me)?In post 1538, Nancy Drew Shogunate wrote:puke is scummy
you are changing the definition. active lurking means porkens clicks the thread, reads, and doesn't post. there's nothing in his posting that points to it, other than you trying to interpret that elsa vote as something that's actually not there.
I'm using that game with mulch, which is an year ago so it is dated, but also some stupid game I had to replace out d1 cause everyone was aids.
-tor
2. Active lurking also has as part of its description doing empty posting to appear active and to avoid prods. Incidentally, have you looked at TPFKAP's ISO at all?
3. A year ago I was assuredly just as aggressive as I am now - feel free to bring up samples from that game to showcase how different I am.- Thor665
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As far as I'm aware they're assigning a town read to me based off fluidity of reads, not aggressiveness unless you're equating the two?In post 1546, Reasonably Rational wrote:Thor, do you expect Cheeky to be aware of 3? If so, what are your thoughts on them assigning a town read to you based on that behavior?
Cheeky has certainly seen me as aggressive town in recent memory, so I would expect him to be aware that I play town aggressively, I'm not sure how aware he is of it as a long term or short term playstyle.
1. I agree you are generically claiming all my posting here is different from how I normally play town while also claiming you can't sort me (whereas what you're saying *sounds* like you should be screaming that I'm scum and trying to get my lynched) I also find that choice to be scummy on your part and valid proof of my claim you're avoiding me.In post 1547, Nancy Drew Shogunate wrote:1. I'm not saying I can sort you. I'm using the games I played with you to say this is different cause your posting here sucks.
2. porkens isn't appearing active at all. and yes I checked his ISO.
3. viewtopic.php?t=73273&f=53&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go read your own d1 here.
2. I agree he isn't active now, that doesn't mean he hasn't, at the time I cited him for active lurking, been active. I haven't called his lurking evidence he is scum or town, only his active lurking. Learn2play?
3. Okay, so it's totally different but you need me to self-meta myself? On a skim I see myself walling, defending people who develop fast and aggressive reads, accusing people of wasting air, calling plans derp, and mocking you for being daft enough to have me as a scum read when basic logic suggests you shouldn't have.
Looks like my usual town play, which is how I would also describe my play this game.
Spending a lot of effort to say nothing is different from theory talk and flavor talk.In post 1577, Chara wrote:Thor's another slot i'm interested in.
offhandedly: knowing that Rational is a poster who rarely gives reads, especially day 1, and is both a highly mechanical and methodical player, and one who likes talking about flavour and theory, why is the description "spending a lot of effort to say nothing" a scummy one? assuming he's aware of that fact, and it's possible he isn't because it seems he hasn't read much of the thread.
there's pribably other things, i just don't find him towny.
Also, RC was fine giving reads this game, very hard and very fast ones.
My digging was just looking at Nico's posting concurrent with this game.In post 1604, Jingle wrote:I done did some digging, and this is not the extent of what I'd expect from town NR.
Look at Blazblue. NR was useless in the thread, but useless more along the lines of TPFKAP here, not the same degree of useless as NR here. Moreover, she was actively gamesolving and obvtowning in her neighborhood. Posting well, in fact.
Further a casual look told me she is lurkery, but not apt to literally doing nothing. I would fully expect a level of engagement like the Porkens slot, not a complete lack of everything ever.
She is derp failing in all conversations pretty much across the forum so I'm not sure why that would make her more likely to be scum here.
I'm fine with scumspecting the slot, it's a garbage fire of a slot, but I just don't think the poor posting is singularly scummy at this point in time - it's a general lurk case.- Thor665
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Tor popped out his meta on me by just linking the game and not actually describing differences he saw.
I dismissed it heartily and with a few notes.
He avoided responding.
Much like how the Nancy Drew head claimed meta awareness of me, was challenged on it, and then avoided me.
Does anyone actually townread the slot?
If so - can you justify this behavior in a pro town manner? They're basically claiming meta and defending it like gut without being honest enough to admit it's a gut read.
Makes me think it's a strategic read.- Thor665
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I'm still very happy people have explained to me how townish TPFKAP is - otherwise I would still be finding evrything they do to scream 'scummy' and 'optimal lynch target'.- Thor665
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At least he's not active lurking because he's posting - thank heavens someone explained that new definition to me while acting like my play is questionable this game while they hard defend that slot.- Thor665
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Both cases are decent enough - people should pick one.- Thor665
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Holy cow, someone who doesn't assess a joke by assuming it's hard truth and that I'm a raging nutball who doesn't know how to play the game, and maybe glanced at my wiki or any newbie I've ever ICed or any game where I had hammer chance.In post 1760, Jingle wrote:
FWIW Thor is a fan of quickwagoning, not lolhammering ime. He (as town) is more than capable of respecting the L-1 -> intent -> claim -> evaluate claim modus operandi. If he chose to hammer preclaim and didn't have a good reason for it, I'd be down to lynch him for BoP.In post 1530, Reasonably Rational wrote:Thor, unfortunately every wagon this game while you're alive is going to be robbed of that info, because you entered the game seemingly eager to quickhammer someone. I will *never* put someone at L-1 without being okay with them getting lynched without even getting to claim because of that. There will always be similar concern that we not only have to worry about scum lolhammering and trying to get away with it, but also someone of unknown alignnment who has publicly expressed an interest in doing that.
Refreshing
<3 Jingle
Well, for starters;In post 1790, BuJaber wrote:
This is scummy too.. the case on me isn't decent at all and if you did think so why wouldn't you join my wagon if it's closer to getting lynched than TFP's?In post 1754, Thor665 wrote:Both cases are decent enough - people should pick one.
1. I started the wagon you are currently the counterwagon to.
2. My wagon has been doing a good job staying competitive with yours.
3. Me considering it a decent case (which it is) does not mean I actually fully agree with the case.
So why are you spewing this nonsense at me?- Thor665
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Yes, I asked people to pick *one* of them.
Congrats - you spotted how I followed my own request?
Brilliant work - glad we had this conversation?
Are you trying to argue for your lynch? This is a very strange conversation and really oddball attack.- Thor665
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Is the theory you're town, TPFKAP is town, and I'm scum utterly indifferent to the wagons?
In that case, wouldn't I be perfectly happy to move if I was indifferent?
So at that point then I'm scum and have a preference to lynch TPFKAP - which would suggest you're my scumpartner, something I'm guessing you're not arguing.
So then we go to you're still both town, but I'm scum who is scared to be on a town lynch wagon and am quietly trying to shove it through - which considering how loud and proud I've been about TPFKAP's wagon (and, frankly, even two minutes spent looking at any scum game I've ever been in) will suggest I'm not scared to be on a town lynch wagon nor to spearhead one.
So...then that leaves us with...what?
I don't get this.
What are you actually accusing me of other than showing that you aren't paying attention to my stated beliefs and are generically against anyone thinking the case on you is (terror of terrors) "decent". - Thor665
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