Open 738: Purgatory | LA FIN

[Eragon]

interesting

[Keyser Söze]

WHO WANTS GUACAMOLE?

[Eragon]

WHO WANTS GUACAMOLE?

[volxen]

WHO WANTS GUACAMOLE?

Is that our reward if we correctly gamesolve and win the game?

[Keyser Söze]

Eragon, I need to town-case you.

Are there any posts in your ISO that you think I should pay extra attention to?


Yours sincerely, Capitan Keyser

[Keyser Söze]

WHO WANTS GUACAMOLE?

Is that our reward if we correctly gamesolve and win the game?

Immortality in Heaven awaits the victors in this game.


TAKE IT! IT’S YOURS!

[Eragon]

Eragon, I need to town-case you.

Are there any posts in your ISO that you think I should pay extra attention to?


Yours sincerely, Capitan Keyser

all of them except the memes :3

and you can even talk about the memes if you want,

DONT LEAVE ANYTHING OUT!!!

EVERYTHING MUST BE READ

EVERYTHING

but legit, just read whatever you want/what is AI

[volxen]

Interesting thing here I noticed. Here are the first five posts I made in the game:

Post #1: 307:

Did you know?

Lions and tigers can crossbreed to create a species known as Ligers..

Votecount 1.03

the worst (3) - LabRat01, Keyser Soze, Irrelephant

Keyser Söze (2) - Lefty, Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde
Carmen (1) - LabRat01,
Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde (1) - Carmen
LabRat01 (1) - the worst
Not Voting - Creature, volxen,

Time till end of hell phase 1: (expired on 2018-11-15 17:00:00)

I'm pretty sure there is at least one scum among [TW, Rat, Keyser, and Rel]. I don't think it's that likely that TW, as town, would get up to L-2 so quickly on the second day of day one with no scum involvement.

I don't think TW and Rat are scum together, with them cross voting each other, and with TW's detailed casing of Rat. It seems really unnecessary for them to try to mutually distance themselves and start wagons against each other this early on day one if they are scumbuddies.

I do wish TW would case Keyser to the same degree that he has cased Rat, but he seems to want to hold back on this for some reason.

Out of [TW, Rat], Rat definitely has far more scum equity in my opinion. TW's casing of Rat felt genuine, whereas Rat's interactions with others came off as scummy to me. For example:

wanna check it for me?

Nah, it's not there.

VOTE: Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde

aww, that's a shame VOTE: carmen
I'm p sure some form of it should be there though, cuz the bracket thingy is written in my RC
wanna check it again? or are you lying in order for someone to notice this "contradiction" and derp you as town?

ugh, I was talking about the town RC if it wasn't obvious

I was re-reading the thread and noticed that my post could be understood as a disgusting joke
that vote was half-serious, it was not pure RvS, so read it as so

and c'mon, someone write sth
it's boring being here alone

I don't think Rat really had a good reason for "seriously" voting Carmen here, and she did say that the vote was "half-serious".

how do you read Key's entrance to the thread btw? I wanna try and sort him as quickly as possible so I can comfortably resume quoting The Usual Suspects and burninating scum.

Was the “I wanna try to sort Key as quick as possible” supposed to be an excuse for asking Left to post reads?

No?
but it def feels that way

OR it feels like your question to Lefty was just an excuse to show off your great town motivations.

Which one do you pick?

I don’t like the previous post either (the one I joked about). It’s prob not directly scum motivated, but it feels a really safe and non-personal way of questioning someone.

Why did Rat make such a big deal about this? All TW did was ask Lefty what he thought of Keyser's entrance -- I don't see how that's really LAMIST, which is what Rat seems to be implying here. Yes everyone should be sorting players and coming up with their own reads, but there is nothing wrong with asking player X what they think about player Y, as long as you are still sorting everyone else in addition to that. Rat seems to be suggesting that TW want's other people to sort Keyser for him so he doesn't have to do the work of sorting Keyser himself, which I don't think is accurate at all. She is also suggesting here that TW's motivation in asking the question was to appear LAMIST, as opposed to him actually wanting to know what Lefty thought of Keyser's entrance.

What’s your take on Soze so far? Is the ‘I thought it was just two goons’ and then the break down of DrJ/Rat following that line of thought something you think they’d do/are capable of as scum?

You know, sth like that could prob be faked by a 5-year old.
Possibly younger

It kinda feels like you didn't want to appear useless so decided to write

anything

that might appear helpful without actually considering if it makes sense to ask about that.

Do not do it like that. If you want to do sth, you can comment on the stuff:
-I wrote about duck,
-keyser wrote about me&DrJ,
-DrJ wrote about me/keiser
-or w/e.
Just pick a wagon and go with it, there’s no need to be wary here

Again, here Rat is criticizing someone for asking a question regarding Keyser. I don't think her criticism of Lefty was really warranted here -- he asks a question about Keyser, and she insinuates that his reason for asking the question was to appear like he was doing something, as opposed to it being a question he genuinely wanted answered. In other words, she is again suggesting that the motivation behind the question was to purposefully appear LAMIST, as opposed to it just being a question that Lefty wanted answered. It's just odd that on two different occasions, two different people ask a question about Keyser, and Rat attacks (unreasonably IMO) both TW and Lefty for asking their respective questions about Keyser. I would think town!Rat would understand that this game isn't just about everyone forming their own reads in isolation and then presenting their readslist to the rest of the group, but it's largely a game that involves interacting with everyone else to understand their motivations, which includes asking players questions such as, "what did you think about X from player Y?" The fact that Rat's initial reaction to both questions about Keyser was to immediately label them as attempts to be LAMIST rather than as genuine questions that were asked to gather information to help gamesolve, seems much more likely to come from scum than town.

VOTE: LabRat01

Post #2: 344

actually
VOTE: Creature

lynch this today for 11/10 guaranteed scumflip
send Dr. J to heaven tomorrow

if Lab/Keyser are town they can prove it

Why do you think Creature is scum, and why is he a better lynch than Rat?

Post #3: 349

@volxen putting associations, VCA and scum partner theories aside, are you t/reading the worst independently?

I don't feel comfortable giving TW a townread yet, no. I do think he made a good case against Rat, especially in post 297, and I do find Rat to have the most scum equity at the moment, but I'm not ready to write off TW as town yet either.

Where I am currently at is I find Dr. J to be the most towny player and Rat to be the most scummy player. I'm still kind of unsure on everyone else.

@Keyser, I am starting to get concerned that if Rat is scum, you could be one of her partners. As I pointed out earlier, it was just odd how quick she was to attack two different people for asking, in my opinion, completely legitimate questions about your slot. If she is scum it's possible that she is simply buddying/defending town!Keyser, but the way she wanted to shut down both questions about Keyser's slot could be indicative of SvS interactions. Keyser, if Rat is scum, why is TW more likely to be one of her partners than you?

But in any case, do you really think TW would gambit as scum and try to get his one of his scumbuddies sent to hell on day one? I would consider that quite a risky gambit because if he does that, then the only way he could win as scum is if both he and his remaining scumbuddy get sent to Heaven. So unless he's convinced that both he and his other scumbuddy could get a lot of towncredit for busing Rat, it seems like quite a risky play to open on day one by busing one of his partners in a game mode that, in my opinion, heavily discourages busing.

Post #4: 351

You think scum-labrat is chainsaw defending scum-me on PAGE ONE against TWO PLAYERS?

I don't think it's too far-fetched that scum!Rat would chainsaw defend one of her scumbuddies against two players. And her two posts where she attacked both TW and Lefty for asking a question about your slot were on pages three and four, not on page one:

how do you read Key's entrance to the thread btw? I wanna try and sort him as quickly as possible so I can comfortably resume quoting The Usual Suspects and burninating scum.

Was the “I wanna try to sort Key as quick as possible” supposed to be an excuse for asking Left to post reads?

No?
but it def feels that way
OR it feels like your question to Lefty was just an excuse to show off your great town motivations.
Which one do you pick?

I don’t like the previous post either (the one I joked about). It’s prob not directly scum motivated, but it feels a really safe and non-personal way of questioning someone.

This was at the bottom of page three.

What’s your take on Soze so far? Is the ‘I thought it was just two goons’ and then the break down of DrJ/Rat following that line of thought something you think they’d do/are capable of as scum?

You know, sth like that could prob be faked by a 5-year old.
Possibly younger

It kinda feels like you didn't want to appear useless so decided to write

anything

that might appear helpful without actually considering if it makes sense to ask about that.
Do not do it like that. If you want to do sth, you can comment on the stuff:
-I wrote about duck,
-keyser wrote about me&DrJ,
-DrJ wrote about me/keiser
-or w/e.
Just pick a wagon and go with it, there’s no need to be wary here

And this was as the top of page four.

And both posts were written within seven minutes of each other, which makes it even more odd.

Post #5: 371

Out of [TW, Rat], Rat definitely has far more scum equity in my opinion. TW's casing of Rat felt genuine, whereas Rat's interactions with others came off as scummy to me. For example:
[quote="In post 307, volxen]

wanna check it for me?

Nah, it's not there.

VOTE: Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde

aww, that's a shame VOTE: carmen
I'm p sure some form of it should be there though, cuz the bracket thingy is written in my RC
wanna check it again? or are you lying in order for someone to notice this "contradiction" and derp you as town?

ugh, I was talking about the town RC if it wasn't obvious

I was re-reading the thread and noticed that my post could be understood as a disgusting joke
that vote was half-serious, it was not pure RvS, so read it as so

and c'mon, someone write sth
it's boring being here alone

I don't think Rat really had a good reason for "seriously" voting Carmen here, and she did say that the vote was "half-serious".

First off, volx seems to have read the thread till duck’s posts, so he should have also been aware of the whole conversation between me and korina. I don’t feel like going all over it again and this argument is

exactly

the same one I’ve been arguing with Korina about.

If he does fully understand why I pushed Carmen, I find it off that he’d find it important enough to mention here.
and if he disagreed to my answers to Korina’s pushes, he should have quoted those posts, not this one.

Him not doing that and including the exact same reasoning kinda feels like he made the argument just “to make the read look more townie/impressive” and doesn’t actually care to think about it seriously

how do you read Key's entrance to the thread btw? I wanna try and sort him as quickly as possible so I can comfortably resume quoting The Usual Suspects and burninating scum.

Was the “I wanna try to sort Key as quick as possible” supposed to be an excuse for asking Left to post reads?

No?
but it def feels that way

OR it feels like your question to Lefty was just an excuse to show off your great town motivations.

Which one do you pick?

I don’t like the previous post either (the one I joked about). It’s prob not directly scum motivated, but it feels a really safe and non-personal way of questioning someone.

Why did Rat make such a big deal about this? All TW did was ask Lefty what he thought of Keyser's entrance -- I don't see how that's really LAMIST, which is what Rat seems to be implying here.
Yes everyone should be sorting players and coming up with their own reads, but there is nothing wrong with asking player X what they think about player Y, as long as you are still sorting everyone else in addition to that.
Rat seems to be suggesting that TW wants other people to sort Keyser for him so he doesn't have to do the work of sorting Keyser himself, which I don't think is accurate at all.
She is also suggesting here that TW's motivation in asking the question was to appear LAMIST, as opposed to him actually wanting to know what Lefty thought of Keyser's entrance.

This one is actually fair, except the “why did rat make such a big deal of this?” part.
This is nearly the same thing as in the last part of the quote, but it’s more visible in the quote there, so just read it there, but it feels kinda fake to me that a player who’s capable of writing an elaborate analysis like this one would base his reads on reasons that are just so obviously wrong.

And the way he defended TW was funny imo. Prob too daring to be SvS, but I don’t think I can say anything more about that

What’s your take on Soze so far? Is the ‘I thought it was just two goons’ and then the break down of DrJ/Rat following that line of thought something you think they’d do/are capable of as scum?

You know, sth like that could prob be faked by a 5-year old.
Possibly younger

It kinda feels like you didn't want to appear useless so decided to write

anything

that might appear helpful without actually considering if it makes sense to ask about that.

Do not do it like that. If you want to do sth, you can comment on the stuff:
-I wrote about duck,
-keyser wrote about me&DrJ,
-DrJ wrote about me/keiser
-or w/e.
Just pick a wagon and go with it, there’s no need to be wary here

Again, here Rat is criticizing someone for asking a question regarding Keyser. I don't think her criticism of Lefty was really warranted here -- he asks a question about Keyser, and she insinuates that his reason for asking the question was to appear like he was doing something, as opposed to it being a question he genuinely wanted answered. In other words, she is again suggesting that the motivation behind the question was to purposefully appear LAMIST, as opposed to it just being a question that Lefty wanted answered.
It's just odd that on two different occasions, two different people ask a question about Keyser, and Rat attacks (unreasonably IMO) both TW and Lefty for asking their respective questions about Keyser.

Yes, I think Lefty’s post was lamist. I don’t think it’s necessarily scum indicative though, because awkwardness and not knowing what to write early in the game is not really scummy. Both town and scum can feel that way and even though his question/post wasn’t sincere imo, both alignments could have had their reasons for doing it.
The read was kind of a push, but it was also a suggestion to do sth else, because even if they’re town, their motivation isn’t difficult to notice and it’s gonna get them lynched if they keep doing that for a long time.

I would think town!Rat would understand that this game isn't just about everyone forming their own reads in isolation and then presenting their readslist to the rest of the group, but it's largely a game that involves interacting with everyone else to understand their motivations, which includes asking players questions such as, "what did you think about X from player Y?" The fact that Rat's initial reaction to both questions about Keyser was to immediately label them as attempts to be LAMIST rather than as genuine questions that were asked to gather information to help gamesolve, seems much more likely to come from scum than town.

VOTE: LabRat01

Here he pushes me for pushing others instead of asking for their motivations, which I find funny coming from someone with such a high game-count.
Even regardless of how many games he played, I find it hard to believe that a player who’s capable of writing such an elaborate analysis of my posts would be unaware that “pushing people” “allows you to read them better” and progresses the game, which is necessary at any point of the game.
Like, c’mon, he did play a lot of games on the site so he should have realized that if people ask questions, they’re most likely gonna get calm, composed answers, which aren’t really gonna help you do anything. Of course some people might just not like pushing others without a reason, but it doesn’t mean others can’t do that and everyone who pushes people early is scum.

Like, I really don’t want to believe that he’s being serious here. Him pushing me for that feels like he was just forcing himself to find a looong, non-sheepy reason for me being scum, without actually caring if it actually makes sense or not.
This post is long and I’ll give him credit for saying that the reasons behind my pushes were bad (even though they weren't), but the main part of it is just terribly empty.

And I don’t like how he disappeared right after writing that. Except the short VCA reasoning and TR on duck, he hasn’t done anything to progress the game, not even asking questions which he was pushing me for.
That’s just incredibly lazy

P.Edit…
Which just changed, so ignore that part.

If you are town, you are really misunderstanding why I am scumreading you -- or you are deliberately trying to misrepresent me if you are scum. I am not against aggressively pressuring and pushing people. I do it myself all the time, and I have even put someone at L-1 on page one of a newbie game as town (see: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=77453) precisely because I wanted to pressure that person. The last thing I am against is pressuring people to see how they react.

No, my problem is that you tried to

shut down/discourage

legitimate questions from both TW and Lefty, both of which were questions about Keyser's slot. In your post you seem to be setting up this false dichotomy where a choice has to be made between questioning someone vs pressuring someone. Why does it have to be either or? You can certainly ask people legitimate questions while simultaneously pressuring them. You want to push TW and Lefty to see how they react? Fine, but you shouldn't be trying to shut down and discourage the legitimate questions they asked about Keyser's slot.

THAT

is what I have a problem with -- you could have pressured Lefty and TW without trying to shutdown their questions about Keyser.

I'm struggling to see the town motivation in trying to shutdown both of their respective questions about Keyser. I mean, if TW and Lefty are both town, think about it from their perspective. If they are both town, and they find one another to be townie, doesn't it make sense for them to talk to one another about Keyser, especially if they are both trying to get an accurate read on Keyser? I mean this is a team game after all, so it makes sense to discuss your reads and other slots with people you find to be towny. So they ask legitimate questions of each other about Keyser's slot, and then you come along and within seven minutes, write two back-to-back posts where you basically call both of them LAMIST, and tell both of them that they are wasting time by asking each other questions about Keyser's slot. But why call it a waste of time -- why assume the questions they were asking each other wouldn't help both of them get a better read on Keyser? Because if getting answers to their questions would help them to better sort Keyser, then it would be a pretty good usage of time, no?

Again the problem isn't that you were aggressive towards TW and Lefty, it's that you tried to "redirect" them away from talking about Keyser and questioning each other about Keyser, when I don't believe you had a legitimate reason for doing so. So yes, for now I am quite skeptical of your motivations.

So those were my first five posts. Then Irrelephant posts this in 377:

Mod I’m always v/la saturday & sunday

My one thought without fully catching up is this seems like a towny volxen, unless he’s trying very very hard to improve his scumgame (no nuance there)

And TW posts this in 410:

@volxen putting associations, VCA and scum partner theories aside, are you t/reading the worst independently?

I don't feel comfortable giving TW a townread yet, no. I do think he made a good case against Rat, especially in post 297, and I do find Rat to have the most scum equity at the moment, but I'm not ready to write off TW as town yet either.

Where I am currently at is I find Dr. J to be the most towny player and Rat to be the most scummy player. I'm still kind of unsure on everyone else.

@Keyser, I am starting to get concerned that if Rat is scum, you could be one of her partners. As I pointed out earlier, it was just odd how quick she was to attack two different people for asking, in my opinion, completely legitimate questions about your slot. If she is scum it's possible that she is simply buddying/defending town!Keyser, but the way she wanted to shut down both questions about Keyser's slot could be indicative of SvS interactions. Keyser, if Rat is scum, why is TW more likely to be one of her partners than you?

But in any case, do you really think TW would gambit as scum and try to get his one of his scumbuddies sent to hell on day one? I would consider that quite a risky gambit because if he does that, then the only way he could win as scum is if both he and his remaining scumbuddy get sent to Heaven. So unless he's convinced that both he and his other scumbuddy could get a lot of towncredit for busing Rat, it seems like quite a risky play to open on day one by busing one of his partners in a game mode that, in my opinion, heavily discourages busing.

This post is so so towny
god if I'm misreading volxen here I'm going to feel dumb as shit postgame

So after my first five posts, they both basically come to the exact same conclusion that I am obvious town in this game. And both of their respective townreads of me have to do with the fact that since I had no nuance with my fake reads as scum in Watcher Wanted, that that in and of itself proves that I am town in this game, since my reads are more nuanced in this game. But I was the first person lynched in Watcher Wanted, over two months ago in early September. As Ausuka pointed out, why would they believe that if I were scum in this game, that my play would be exactly the same as it was in Watcher Wanted? I'ts been over two months since that game ended for me, and I have played numerous games in that time. And beyond that, I've played with town!Irrelephant very recently (In Newbie 1894), and town!TW less recently (in Newbie 1888). In both of those games, neither of them pegged me as obvious town right off of the bat. In newbie 1888, TW hard scumread me on day 1 and pushed for my lynch, and only came around to townreading me on day 2. And in Newbie 1894, Irrelephant was skeptical of my slot all the way until lylo, when my lack of quickhammering proved that I was town. And I don't think I am more super obvious town in this game compared to either of those other games, so something doesn't add up here because the town!TW and town!Irrelephant that I know don't give out such strong townreads so easily and so early on in the game.

Keyser's skepticism towards my slot, which eventually lead to a townread but only after several real-time interactions between us, feels very natural and towny.

[volxen]

labrat is probably town, too
way too many words to be scum for like 80% of players
I'll double-check this before sending them to heaven but not interested in a labrat lynch atm

This again seems like way too easy of a townread and doesn't seem like the town!Irrelephant that I have played with before. Why would the length of Labrat's posts be indicative of her being more likely town than scum? Scum can certainly write very lengthy and analytical posts just as town can.

[Eragon]

As a side note this is probably one of my last games on MS that i’ll Join, but I will take PbR(play by request) so is there an MS discord that I could join?

repeating

don't make me post sad cat pictures

[volxen]

@Keyser, I think we should Eragon to Heaven on day 4, if you are OK with that. I think you and I should stick around to endgame.

[ManateeDude]

Also @mod: Keyser & Keyser Söze are the same lol

Oops! Fixing

[ManateeDude]

Did you know?

Manatee's nipples are loacted in their armpits

Votecount 2.04

volxen (3) - Irrelephant, Eragon, the worst
Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde (2) - Keyser Söze, volxen
Keyser (2) - Ausuka, Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde
Not Voting - LabRat0

Time till end of heaven phase 1: (expired on 2018-11-22 15:30:00)

[LabRat01]

After all, unlike Watcher Wanted this game setup can potentially be very punishing of busing, since 2/3 scum have to make it to Heaven for them to win. So if Keyser and Creature are scum together, Keyser may simply be unwilling to bus here.

First off, you can’t assume that mafia will automatically buddy each other even if the setup heavily punishes bussing. High risk is often correlated with high benefits, so do not just simply believe in that and you’ll be fine imo
Like, it most prob depends on the scums’ personalities and on how confident they feel at the moment

I feel like players don't actually think I'm scum anymore but just wants my flip because I am the more informative

No, it was not
And no, you were just scummy, not the more informative one

[LabRat01]

I don’t think I should be the D1 lynch guys.
But if I’m your strongest scum read, then ok then. My playstyle doesn’t work on this site anymore.

Bye guys been fun last few games. See you in couple years

Sorry if I was rude or if my read offended you in any way. I didn’t mean it to be like that :/
Could you answer my read on you though?

Fck, just noticed that there’s less than a day left xd

VOTE: Keyser

I want to lynch him today. I still don’t like his interactions with Creature and the way he was going about TW the whole game was just weird imo.

What is scummy about my interactions with Creature? Is it because you think we're scum partners?

The way you defended him when people were SRing him based on his meta felt off to me.
You you didn’t seem to know creat’s scum meta, yet you seemed really confident that pushes like: “he’s even worse as scum” or “he’s an easy read when you know how he plays” being wrong and creat being absolutely unreadable.

It did ping me as a possible SvS and you defending your scummate, but I wouldn’t be surprised if scum!you did this because you knew that creature is town and that all of those meta arguments were wrong anyways.

Yeah, you did make a post later in which you “threw your meta-read in the bin” after TW made that long post about creat’s scum meta, but it doesn’t really change anything imo.

I find the way Keyser pushed TW during the game to be really off. He was perfectly able to TR me based on my emotional postings and he’s absolutely refusing to notice the same thing in TW’s posts, even though there’s way more of it and it’s way more obvious.

I've seen scum-TW express a full array of emotions, so I couldn't hold up your emotional parameters against him and judge you by the same measuring stick.

Could you link me to a scum game like that? And could you comment on the emotional tells I’m TRing TW for? I could quote them for you if you want to

VOTE: Ausuka

PoE is a good place to vote right now.

POE, MY ASS, NO IT’S NOT
You’ll have to try hard to make me believe that you wouldn’t be able to get decent reads to push after the whole day has passed. What the heck are you even doing
And you don’t even have a TR on creature while a lot of people do SR him, so why did you even think of the idea to “PoE-lynch”?

VOTE: Eragon

There’s gotta be scum in the Watchmen :giggle:

Imagine if it’s The Watchman Wanted vs Mafia :cool:

Is it a joke?

No, seriously, it feels like you’re either getting desperate and trying to think of bullshit that would save you and creat from getting lynched, or you’re trying to fake defending creat, so that you’ll look better if he flips town
Seriously, this is awful, those are not posts you should be making just before EoD
explain it please

Now the question is: would Keyser make this towncase on a townie as scum? I think most of my scumread of Keyser came from lack of nuance/mutual scumread with at first/buddying vibes
If Keyser is scum here he feels confident that buddying with the right people will save his team, or he's scum with DrJ...

Maybe it's just eragon/creature/lefty

Of course he freaking would
Nearly everyone has been TRing DrJ before Keyser did it rn, so him changing his opinion rn is of absolutely no value

I didn't change my read from scum to town on Dr J. He went from a low end town lean, to a top end town lean. There is no operatic scum motivation for me to do that. There was a developing/gradual change of read after a re-read and chat with Irrelephant.

I don’t really care about that tbh. The read wasn’t bad, but I don’t think you should be town-read for it
It was a post addressed to irre btw

but actually his case on DrJ was the first time this game he's been objectively very much like his town self, imo
reminds me of his Presidents play, finally
Not sure it's enough for anything resembling a strong townread but I think we already agreed not to lynch him today

And I really don’t like that change

I tend to change my reads a lot. New information is supplied every page and after every flip. Get used to it.

Same here, it was addressed to irre.

And actually, now that I read it, you answering the posts which were clearly meant for irrelephant to answer feels kind of lamist

[LabRat01]

VOTE: Ausuka

PoE is a good place to vote right now.

POE, MY ASS, NO IT’S NOT
You’ll have to try hard to make me believe that you wouldn’t be able to get decent reads to push after the whole day has passed. What the heck are you even doing
And you don’t even have a TR on creature while a lot of people do SR him, so why did you even think of the idea to “PoE-lynch”?

Like yeah Keyser's vote there wasn't the best but from what he said afterwards it seems likely that he was townreading Creature there hence why he doesn't want that lynch - with less than a day left a compromise lynch does make some sense.

First off, you should prob catch up fully first

Do you remember Keyser writing anything about creature being town other than his early-game meta defense (which got discarded later on because of TW’s meta-case)?
No?
Neither do I tbh

If he really was TRing creature, why didn’t he try to do anything about it before creat got lynched?
Even if his read wasn’t strong, not saying anything feels like a shitty way to save his own ass

VOTE: Ausuka

PoE is a good place to vote right now.

And as I said before, I got really bad vibes from the way Keyser changed his votes later on. He ignored all scum-cases made against creature and everything else AI, which happened during the day just for the sake of “lynching for PoE”.

That makes absolutely no sense from town PoV.

VOTE: Eragon

There’s gotta be scum in the Watchmen :giggle:

Imagine if it’s The Watchman Wanted vs Mafia :cool:

The next posts, with the vote explained by a joke

His attitude there felt awful to me. It felt as if he didn’t actually care what happens to the wagon on creature or to his new pushes, and was just shitting around, waiting for stuff to happen
This attitude never comes from town imo

Town!he should at least care about what people say about Asuka/eragon/creature. Like, care to progress the game or sth
His votes and the lack of any kind explanation or serious attitude made me feel that he wasn't sincere about trying to distract the lynch from creature and didn't honestly want that to happen

The votes felt like they were made for the purpose of
a) looking more townie after creature’s lynch
or
b) just for the sake of being off the wagon so that the wagon is smaller and people feel free to place their votes there so that if anything shitty happens later, he’s still able to re-vote and save his own ass

OR W/E, I don’t really care about the reason tbh,

that was a vote that NEVER comes from town imo

That just makes no damn sense

[LabRat01]

VOTE: Eragon

There’s gotta be scum in the Watchmen :giggle:

Imagine if it’s The Watchman Wanted vs Mafia :cool:

Is it a joke?

No, seriously, it feels like you’re either getting desperate and trying to think of bullshit that would save you and creat from getting lynched, or you’re trying to fake defending creat, so that you’ll look better if he flips town
Seriously, this is awful, those are not posts you should be making just before EoD
explain it please

And like 991 was a joke and I really don't think it's scum indicative at all.

refer to what I said above

[LabRat01]

wrt/ 954 I haven't exactly read the entire game but just because town emotion seems obvious to you doesn't mean every townie is going to interpret it in the same way - I do think TW is capable of faking emotions as scum and a fluid train of thought, and looking at 429 honestly I don't even see why scum can't fake that.

Yeah, he prob would be able to fake one thing, but I doubt he’d be able to lie about everything he’s done on the thread so far. Besides his early game thoughts about RvS, TW’s thought progression on every player was incredibly clear

I liked the way his reads changed on me early in the game, the flip-flops on creature later on and the way he felt bad after writing his meta-read on Keyser.
Besides, I think the way he flip-flopped on nearly all of his strong reads D1 was really town-indicative.
Would he flip-flop that much as scum?
Would he be able to make all of it look natural?
I mean, there’s a really big chance that scum!TW would have to SR at least one of their teammates during the game
Trying to fake all of that at the same time would have just made him and all of his scummates stressed out and more likely to screw up because of the constant pressure

Like, there’s a lot of town-tells imo and I was expecting that if keyser does tend to read people based on emotions, he should have noticed at least

some

of those in TW’s posts.

Him not even considering anything like that felt like he didn’t really care about it at all and just wanted to have an and easy read on TW

Like, c’mon just look at any of keyser’s reads on TW, there was so much more he could have written and most of the time, despite talking about TW on various subjects and having varying opinions on A LOT of stuff, Keyser ignored that, just to read TW for activity and his “bad” read on me
That’s just not enough

[LabRat01]

I think it is very rare to be "salty that (somebody) SRd you right" and I also don't get the impression Keyser is that kind of person.

• At the beginning of the game TW scum-read me and keyser for some shitty reasons
  
• Keyser got a scum-read on TW thanks to that (because he thought that TWs scum-read on me was bad)
  
• Later on TW started changing his reads and acting uncertain about them, while he still scum-read keyser and was still refusing to explain the meta-reasons for doing so.
  
• Keyser, on the other hand, started acting in a way that was weird to me. He still pushed TW for scum-reading me, while ignoring the other stuff that might have been AI in TW’s posts. As I said before, it felt like he treated TW as a town leader when discussing reads and completely ignored those conversations and his previous townie attitude when making pushes

It felt like he was treating and talking to TW as to a townie, yet still SRing him occasionally in his “read-posts”, which felt kinda contradictory

Actually, I agree that it might not have necessarily been a salt reaction. I think I went a bit too deeply into their interactions, when it was kind of a stretch and there wasn’t even a need for that :/

Basically, keyser’s case on TW felt fake to me. It felt like he knew TW is town, which is why he interacted with him as with a townie when discussing reads, yet SR him later just to get the "towncreed push"

[LabRat01]

And again you interpreting those posts as town tells really does not mean that everybody has to.

I think he should. I would expect that from town!him tbh, especially if they're used to playing together

[LabRat01]

Fck, just noticed that there’s less than a day left xd

VOTE: Keyser

I want to lynch him today. I still don’t like his interactions with Creature and the way he was going about TW the whole game was just weird imo.

What is scummy about my interactions with Creature? Is it because you think we're scum partners?

The way you defended him when people were SRing him based on his meta felt off to me.
You you didn’t seem to know creat’s scum meta, yet you seemed really confident that pushes like: “he’s even worse as scum” or “he’s an easy read when you know how he plays” being wrong and creat being absolutely unreadable.

It did ping me as a possible SvS and you defending your scummate, but I wouldn’t be surprised if scum!you did this because you knew that creature is town and that all of those meta arguments were wrong anyways.

Yeah, you did make a post later in which you “threw your meta-read in the bin” after TW made that long post about creat’s scum meta, but it doesn’t really change anything imo.

wrt/ 1047; you don't need to be an extensive expert to know about Creature's meta; you can simply look at recent games in which he blurred the line. And a lot of people are just strongly against meta in general without any background knowledge of the player being discussed.

Again, you’re defending keyser without knowing what you’re talking about.

At the beginning TW and the others strongly meta-scum-read Creature for active lurking

Keyser and I chatted a bit that

neither of us know Creat’s scum meta

, but we’ve got bad experiences with SRing creat as town

There were more posts (mainly from TW) that Creat’s scum-meta is

even worse

than his town meta and that it’s

often rather easy to discern

And Keyser answered that by explaining Creature’s TOWN meta and trying to make the point that

Creature is unreadable by meta

, which felt just TMI to me.

If everyone was saying that Creat “is even worse as scum than as town” and Keyser knew only about Creat’s town meta, how did he even know that people were over-relying on creat’s scum meta?

[LabRat01]

ew keyser what
what is the AtE on this and last page
do you *want* to get lynched
honestly right now the case labrat is making on keyser is all basically true about eragon except eragon has basically none of the towny moments keyser has, and I think there are worlds here where keyser is town
feels like eragon is only itt when asked, and hoping to just gather little enough attention to survive the day phase.
idk keyser is not my strongest scumread and if lab+creature are the wagon I think I'll probably pass for now
creature has done next to nothing all day, still fine with his lynch

DrJ where's your head at
Ausuka you should place a vote

Eww
IF you think my case on keyser makes sense, then why not answer it instead of placing it on another player? Why not talk about keyser with me? I mean, you did say that my read does make sense, but for another player, right?
C’mon, you’re not the type to avoid conversation like this.
I really doubt that I’m wrong about keyser rn, but unless I am, I’d like you to get lynched next.

And nice shade there :) You weren’t even SRing me, so how is me being on the wagon influencing your choice of not wanting to vote keyser?
Do you disagree with my read on keyser?
No?
if so, then wtf was that about

Don’t say that creature being on the wagon JUST TO SAVE HIS OWN ASS AND BECAUSE I ASKED HIM TO DO IT, influenced your read on keyser in any way
Do you think he wouldn’t bus there?
Why?
Like, c’mon, I remembered you as more thoughtful than that. That argument makes no sense and rn it kind of feels like you just wanted to have as many arguments as possible NOT to lynch your scummate. Like, c'mon it's just bad

[LabRat01]

I don't get why he would pretend he was lynched as scum when that's obviously not the case? I really think that's just a joke honestly.

Legit question, how much do you know about AtE and how often do you analyze the emotions in the players’ posts?

Ouch ok.

Unless I get a reason to vote elsewhere will likely vote heaven in {Jekyll, Keyser}

Why the fuck do you want to lynch keyser to heaven?

Yeah Keyser wagon for heaven probably isn't happening but whatever.

Pedit: Why can't we sort him now?

Scroll up to my scum case on him

[LabRat01]

I don’t think I should be the D1 lynch guys.

But if I’m your strongest scum read, then ok then. My playstyle doesn’t work on this site anymore.


Bye guys been fun last few games. See you in couple years

Let’s counter

VOTE: Dr J

I’m really, really tempted to read this as a town-spew.

A lot of keyser’s next posts feel like he’s honestly trying to change the townies’ opinions on him, so that he doesn’t get lynched in the next hell phase.
There’s no way scum!Keyser would pick his teammate as the heaven push in a situation like that imo.
If keyser is scum (I'm really confident he is), DrJ should be town

[LabRat01]

Gonna park my vote there for now and look at LabRat. Didn’t like where their focus was in the latter part of D1 (they kept pressure on Creature and me). They began D1 as an easy town read, but ended it in my PoE - now I gotta take off my OMGUS glasses.

hey, what do you think was scummy about my case on you?
and if you didn't like it, why didn't you push me or it?