Micro 831: Great Idea Mafia (Game Over)

[Micc]

Guys this game is usually a lot easier if you roll good roles not negative utility.

VOTE: shortaru

[Micc]

I'm starting to think I misjudged that situation

Do tell more.

I’m not sure if we’re legit waiting for a mod scene or if you were bluffing.

[Micc]

I wouldn't call compulsive child killer verifiable at all. And post 8 pretty antitown in mindset. I say we wagon shortaru.

predit: you might want to read it again. that's not how compulsive child killer is meant to work afaik

[Micc]

does your role PM indicate how people fake revealing as IC are handled? 45 seems to indicate you would still day vig them.

[Micc]

I wouldn't call compulsive child killer verifiable at all. And post 8 pretty antitown in mindset. I say we wagon shortaru.

Wait, do you really think he accidentally showed his true face for a moment?

It's possible that he's scum pretending to be town messing around, but I'm not feeling that either.

idk maybe. I know my first thought would have been "I hope he's reaction testing" not "I hope he just got himself killed cause he deserves it". I think its more worthy of a wagon than anything else I've seen so far.

I wouldn't call compulsive child killer verifiable at all. And post 8 pretty antitown in mindset. I say we wagon shortaru.

predit: you might want to read it again. that's not how compulsive child killer is meant to work afaik

What happens if an IC is revealed later on and they immediately get dayvigged by shortaru? Would that not be verification?

That's the one way to verify the child killer that I can think of without killing them. I don't think it's a particularly good solution for obvious reasons. I also don't know what a mafia day vig has to do with anything.

does your role PM indicate how people fake revealing as IC are handled? 45 seems to indicate you would still day vig them.

It does not, but that's a strange assumption.

I mean, that's how I took your post 45 so I'm glad you see why I though it was strange.

[Micc]

do those day vig shots mean you are retracting your earlier claim?

[Micc]

I guess that's the real question then. What are you trying to do?

[Micc]

no I was just actually lost.

the purpose of bob's post 54 went completely over my head specifically because I know how childkiller works and the idea of a mafia day vig using it as a fake claim after they actively shoot an IC claim never crossed my mind. I didn't even realize the dayvig shots were by request and not of his own making.

i'll be back tomorrow. I need sleep.

[Micc]

UNVOTE:

I can't understand anything tazaro is writing and it's already annoying. maruchan reading and commenting on only half the thread to then come back 20 minutes later and answer a brand new question is ehh. gamma purposefully talking in riddles is also rather annoying.

[Micc]

well if I had a good read on that id be voting.

[Micc]

Gamma has a writing style. I don't remember gamma having a writing style. This feels genuinely paranoid, though:

I guess that logic works. Don’t think I’m gonna let that go forever, though, see? I’ll keep it in mind.

but idk

I'm leaning town on maru for discussing contentious stuff without having had the opportunity to read everything.
Taz and Simeon are the easy lynches
kitten seems alright for now

VOTE: jay

Is 'jay' "biceph bob speak" for gamma (emerald)?

This concerns me because later he's talking about how he's read the thread enough but he doesn't know there's a player in the game named Jay. The interaction you and simeon talked about is equally weird. and like I said, 118 to 123, I don't even understand what he's trying to say so I'd appreciate some clarification there.

predit: well I sat down to read the thread 10 minutes ago so how about you just let me go through my process. also add 129 to the list of posts I dont' understand.

[Micc]

yeah. that didn't stop me from figuring it out in less than 30 seconds.

lets talk about your push on simeon. You're voting him because he wouldn't explain his push or something else?

[Micc]

Who give a s*** about his push on Simeon when he clearly says it's for developing reads, not necessarily a consequence of scum radar.

I care. I don't have a good feel for what direction to scum hunt atm moment. he seems like he does and I was getting town pings from his post so I want to give him a chance to say what he's thinking. If you don't care then don't listen. If I'm asking a specific question to him you don't have to answer and in a lot of cases id prefer you just don't answer.

lets talk about your push on simeon. You're voting him because he wouldn't explain his push or something else?

That, and 84 in general was a crap post.

I don't have a problem with him calling maruchan out for those things. I felt pretty similarly myself to be honest.

[Micc]

long day at work tonight. I'll check in tomorrow morning.

[Micc]

im surprised there havent been more responses from some of you (cough MICC) to my post.

It's almost as though a number of you skimmed/didn't read it

I don't have much more to say than what I said in 125. I'm sorry you think my page 1 RVS vote was opportunistic or that my comment was any more serious then general ribbing about the unfortunate circumstances of potentially having multiple negative utility roles. I'm sorry that you didn't like the shitty case I pushed to help move the game out of RSV. I'm sorry that I got confused as fuck the discussion of day vigs because I was posting at work while barely reading the predits. I'm sorry that you decided to go to bed before reading my explanation or chose to ignore it. I'm sorry that you think my name being green makes me any different than anyone else.

[Micc]

and yeah I'm in for this wagon. I've got other stuffs to do but I'll be back later tonight.

VOTE: Tazaro

[Micc]

yeah pop corn mass claim is probably correct. I thinking kittenlicks or maruchan going first but idk to be honest. I haven't spent any time thinking about this game in like 4 days.

[Micc]

or I guess if anyone thinks they have a guilty we start there instead of mass claim. any 1v1 is better if the rest of the players are unclaimed as opposed to claimed imo.

[Micc]

I'd like to see some reads developed and stated before massclaim. With such a broad range of roles to choose from, almost any claim could be fake. It's too easy to let scum get by with a believable claim. And too easy to WIFOM a trueclaimed role away. In fact while writing this I'm starting to lean toward massclaim being a bad idea, because it only adds noise and gives scum targets given the situation.

yeah this is fair. I was thinking the discussion of who popcorns first was a good way to accomplish this while leading into the mass claim...and then a third of the playerlist claimed unprompted so idk where to head from here.

I'm a Town FBI Agent, and I checked Gamma, with the logic that getting a result of "Serial Killer" confirms Gamma as not an Alien, Werewolf or Mafia, which is way more useful than just knowing someone isn't an SK. I was feeling ever so clever with myself, until some jerk went and killed him, ruining everything.

This is actually a pretty neat interaction. town points for you.

[Micc]

I'd like Maruchan to respond to my post 178. seems like as good of a place to start as any.

[Micc]

Then what's up with post 148? You seemed pretty eager to have this discussion then, or were you just throwing shade at me?

[Micc]

Giving the post numbers and not linking or quoting them isn't helping.
Not sure what more Maruchan wants after this.

Yeah that’s a bad habit of mine. Sorry.

I don’t know what he wants either. He was proud enough of his case to throw shade at me for ignoring it, but in my mind the case was so obviously contrived from nothing that a response from me wasn’t really warranted - hence the passive aggressive answers when I finally did respond. I guess I could reword my post to be less dickish, but my answers aren’t going to change. But if this line of conversation is his one contribution to the game so far and he doesn’t even want to continue it, I can’t help wonder how he thinks he’s going to find scum.

[Micc]

I'm leaning toward KittenLicks reaction to the lynch being a possible partner.
I have to get up early in the morning and can't do much except run the workshop all day, so hoping to see some discussion on this by the time I'm back.

I had this thought briefly but KittenLicks being unsure of supersaint mechanics lead me away from it. If your partner is a supersaint you probably look that up before he’s claiming in the game thread and it would be an impressively wierd thing to fake. Similarly investigating the universal Miller is not an interaction that I think a scum player thinks of. I’m leaning pretty strongly towards town on KittenLicks right now.

[Micc]

The combination of no guarantee of balance along with so many factions does make speculating on scum(teams) difficult. I’m of the opinion that any case based primarily on those types of interactions is a bad case in this setup.

You should try looking at Maruchan’s ISO for some direction. He’s my pick for scum at this point mostly by POE, but there really isn’t anything there that gives me Town vibes.

[Micc]

I’m a psychiatrist and I targeted gamma emerald. Maruchan next.

[Micc]

Speaking of which, we haven't discussed this (possibly because people are taking strategy as something everyone knows) but

should

we actually lynch today? If we knew we were at 2 scum vs 4 townies it'd be obvious not to lynch, right? Or are we scared of the possibility of two kills?

Not lynch would be a high risk plan with very little payoff. I’m strongly against it unless a clear breaking strategy were to emerge from the mass claim.

[Micc]

He seemed as likely to be a serial killer as anyone one else with the added benefit of probably not being nightkilled. and then he got nightkilled...I feel your frustration.

[Micc]

because day 1 was a bucket full of null, and I needed a name, and the only person I felt had done anything of note was Micc pushing a policy on a role, so i investigated him

No part of me pushing shortaru was policy on his role. Stop acting like it was. I went from RVS voting him to making an admittedly shitty page 1 push that helped bring us out of RVS to correctly town reading him.

[Micc]

can someone compile a list of the current claims? I'm unsure who all claimed

And how hard is it to actually read and follow the game? Maybe the reason you’re rather bad at finding scum is that you aren’t even trying?

[Micc]

Isn't Lylo better than Mylo?

Not realy? If the game is mod confirmed to have a single scum team a case can be made for lylo having better odds than mylo. My expierence is that the player who everyone agrees is Town dies and nothing really changes.

Now if you consider that this game could have multiple scum teams the no lynch looks real risky. Consider that a two person scum team wins tonight with two deaths that aren’t them. Wouldn’t you feel silly not taking your shot to lynch them today?

[Micc]

If he doesn't want to claim, I'm cool with that. He's last in order anyway, so fakeclaiming would be pretty simple.

Agreeing with this.

I'm hesitant to vote because potential mylo, but consider me voting Maruchan. Not moving it until he gives some kind of indication of who he's scum reading or where his head is at.

[Micc]

ya'll a big basket full of null and the only person I'm towny reading is simeon for his push of me because i did something uber stupid last night.

oh hey that's progress. What are your thoughts on the reasoning I laid out for Kittenlicks being town in post 242?

[Micc]

Any tell based on anything is fakeable tho right? I feel like at some point you have to admit you won't know for sure until there's a flip and just go with what you believe. I happen to believe kittenlicks didn't fake those things so that explains my read.

I don't really have a problem with you thinking that particular point is null, but at some point you've got to actively do something to sort your pile of null reads and I'm annoyed that you refuse to.

[Micc]

I see where you guys are coming from with respect to Maruchan being possible lynchbait. But I’ve made a pretty reasonable attempt to engage him over this entire day 2 and he clearly doesn’t anything to do with it. We lynched Tazaro for similar things and he also looked like lynchbait, but that worked ok. /shrug.

KittenLicks, care to expand on your Bob/Simeon town reads?

[Micc]

Sure those things are possible. Anything’s possible. I’m just here trying to make reads based off what I think is most likely to be true. Youre not actually playing a game of mafia if you read everything as null right?

How about you offer your read on KittenLicks and back it up with evidence?

[Micc]

I was originally against a Simeon lynch due to being provably a fruit vendor, but I double checked the cards and, at least, mathematically, being a fruit vendor makes you more likely to be non-town, not less. So oops, my bad there. I will say that Simeon was a large part of the Taz lynch, so that speaks to his scumhunting abilities, if not his alignment.

It's 50/50 right? Town or Mafia.

I agree Simeon's involvement in Taz lynch is a good indication he's not a werewolf because it didn't look like busing. But we already know that he's either Town or Mafia because those are the only fruit vendors. I don't think him leading the wagon is a good thing to be basing a read off here.

[Micc]

VOTE: Maruchan

[Micc]

My push is basically a policy lynch. It feels off to me too.

I’m open to hearing other cases, and have been asking for them this whole day phase. I just see things I can call town from everyone but Maruchan. That’s a case that’s worked for me in the past so I’m begrudgingly going with it here.

[Micc]

Well that was shitty. I think I’ll be able to do a full read through tonight and go from there. Feeling the need to start fresh.

[Micc]

Sorry guys. I’m traveling this weekend and have spent most of my free time this week getting ready. Sitting down to look things over now. My instincts say that the tree stump claim indicates bob is Town and that this is between Simeon and davesaz.

[Micc]

So first things first I think we refrain from having Bob treestump today, and we do lynch. If there's disagreement with that I'm willing to argue my opinion but otherwise its trivial.

The 30 minute reread has me leaning towards davesaz being scum. His involvement on both the tazaro and maruchan wagons was basically "I think this person is scum and the wagon has support so I'll vote there". Simeon's involvement has been stronger as much of his interactions are him actively engaging people in order to form reads. davesaz actually just straight up ignored my attempt to engage him regarding kittenlicks in post 294 in favor of hammering maruchan to end the day. I didn't realize it until reading back.

I targeted simeon last night so baring unusual circumstances he's not a serial killer. I'm not exactly sure I'm ready to write off Bob as being town with his claim being the biggest reason cause that should really be NAI, but it's where I'm at.

Why do you want to vote micc, simeon?

Simply because I townread dave more than micc

I don't think this opinion is meaningful without you giving reasons for town reading davesaz.

[Micc]

I know it's not anyone here's fault but letting the consensus town read hammer the claimed supersaint was terrible and we're paying for it now.

[Micc]

I targeted simeon last night so baring unusual circumstances he's not a serial killer.

I'm confirmed fruit vendor why did you even do this lols

Yeah not a great choice in hindsight. I feel pretty stupid.

[Micc]

Just as a heads up: While he didn't explicitly announce it in-thread, I'm treating Micc as V/LA until Monday because he mentioned he was traveling this weekend.

Thanks for this. I didn’t really plan to go mia for the weekend but my phone was dead all day Saturday and today was pretty busy.

[Micc]

Right now my top scum candidate is Micc. He should have targeted me as top priority, especially if he thinks I'm scum.

While I agree that my night action choice was horrendous, I’m not following why you think it makes me scum.

[Micc]

I could climb up on a pedestal and say I'm actually trying to solve and so I should be obv, but y'all should see that anyway.Micc is a little sketch for trying to use my votes as evidence. VCA is pretty useless in a setup that's more likely to be MB than not.

Are you really trying to solve tho?

You've made votes and you've said you think I'm scum here but you haven't put any reasoning down for any of it. You called me sketch for giving my opinion and presenting things that happened as evidence. You misrepresent my evidence as being VCA when that's not what it is. You ignored my attempts to engage regarding kittenlicks during day 2 and you again decided not to engage me about why my blundered night action makes me scum.

I feel like I'm the one trying to engage and solve here not any of you. Kind of crazy to think considering I've been regretfully mia for big stretches of this game.

[Micc]

Spoiler:

I'm leaning toward KittenLicks reaction to the lynch being a possible partner.
I have to get up early in the morning and can't do much except run the workshop all day, so hoping to see some discussion on this by the time I'm back.

I had this thought briefly but KittenLicks being unsure of supersaint mechanics lead me away from it. If your partner is a supersaint you probably look that up before he’s claiming in the game thread and it would be an impressively wierd thing to fake. Similarly investigating the universal Miller is not an interaction that I think a scum player thinks of. I’m leaning pretty strongly towards town on KittenLicks right now.

Might a scum player fake that as a way to appear not scum? Or be worried about a watcher so claim a plausible visit?

Sure those things are possible. Anything’s possible. I’m just here trying to make reads based off what I think is most likely to be true. Youre not actually playing a game of mafia if you read everything as null right?

How about you offer your read on KittenLicks and back it up with evidence?

Here's the extent of the conversation. It starts with you asking for discussion on the point you presented. I respond with my opinion which you immediately challenge by calling wifom. I rebuttal while trying to move the conversation back towards productivity, and then you don't respond. I don't see any indication you had a real interest in having a open minded discussion about the topic.

I clearly didn't think my night action through regardless of my alignment tho right? I didn't just decide as scum that claiming a bonehead action was the right play to make. If you're saying town me is more likely to take the action seriously then I guess my counter is that scum me has a lot more to lose because its clearly an easy way to get caught. I can honestly say as town that it doesn't feel like my night action in this game matters at all so I didn't put much thinking into what the best play was. I know that's pretty ugly and I'm not happy to admit it, but it's what happened.

[Micc]

I'm not exactly sure I'm ready to write off Bob as being town with his claim being the biggest reason cause that should really be NAI, but it's where I'm at.

I haven't moved much from this opinion. davesaz, if you're actually interesting in interacting lets make this the topic. Do you think my opinion is reasonable or not?

[Micc]

I looked when someone brought it up earlier and just looked again. there is one treestump and it's town. Where are you finding a second?

I'm also curious to what you think the pro town approach is in his position?

[Micc]

I posed this as a question: Is town better off in a 2v1 with a stumped advisor, or a 3v1 where we don't have anyone confirmed? In the 3v1, all 3 town need to agree on who is scum, or we no-lynch and scum get to choose whom to remove for the LYLO. In a 2(+1) v1 we get a classic LYLO with an added voice. Numbers wise stumping "seems" better.

Yeah I get this. But if the consensus is that Bob's town, and Bob knows he's town, then stumping him has no upside and only downside.

There doesn't seem to be consensus that Bob's slot is town. I could see forcing them to stump in that case. I guess I'll put a little more effort into to reading him in the earlier days tonight. I still want to say that no solo scum player decides to claim treestump as the last person in mass claim, but I don't know if I'm willing to gamble the game away on that.

Looking forward to hearing from the replace in's. Hopefully in a timely manor. I'll be pretty busy all week with holiday stuff after tomorrow night.

[Micc]

Yo Persivul. Long time no see

When can we except a post with your thoughts on the game?

[Micc]

Shortaru died because he hammered a supersaint not because of a day vig.

[Micc]

Sortaru and I had expressed scumreads and Simeon was already voting Tazaro so I'd say there was support for the wagon before davesaz replaced in. At least as much support as any other wagon had at that point in the game.

I realize I didn't get back to the thread to explain my tazaro vote and that it looks pretty bad. I almost replaced out over that weekend but thankfully the night phase was enough of a break to get me through. Despite this I don't think davesaz's vote was any stronger than mine and yet no one is willing to consider that.

We're headed in the direction of losing this game by mislynching me out of default and I don't know what I can do about that.

[Micc]

Simeon, davesaz and Bob have all posted that I'm their scum read in some form or another without being willing to expand or engage me on it.

Now it's mylo and two of them got replaced and the third is on his way. not to mention bulbazoor's been in this game for over 48 hours without making a meaningful contribution. I know I've been somewhat apathetic about this game at times, but I'm here now and it will be really disappointing if we lose this game because "ehh whatever. let's just lynch Micc".

[Micc]

Sortaru and I had expressed scumreads and Simeon was already voting Tazaro so I'd say there was support for the wagon before davesaz replaced in. At least as much support as any other wagon had at that point in the game.

Expressing a scum read but not voting, only to vote once the wagon gains traction, is scummy AF.

That’s not even true. Mural agreement on a scum read that leads to a wagon and eventual scum flip is just good townblocking. Like, we’re taking about the heart of day 1 here. It’s the single most reasonable point in the game to be openly interacting and exchanging opinions. Once I realized my opinion was lining up with some people I loosely Town read I voted.

1. davesaz gave a partial reads list upon placing in. I give that a lot of credit.

2. So, same situation - if you think it's scummy, why aren't you pushing him? Making weak suggestions in hope that someone else picks up the case and pushes it is a scum move.

That reads list wasn’t rooted in anything. He could have pulled it from anywhere. Are you going to tell me you like bulbazoor too simply because he gave a partial read list?

I’ve said I’m leaning that direction the whole day and was pretty vocally not satisfied with his responses to me trying to wngage him. I’m not sure why you’d think I’m doing anything but pushing him. He’s scum with the game already wrapped up. I doubt we’ll see anything but a vote from him for the rest of the phase.

[Micc]

VOTE: davesaz

[Micc]

I’m traveling home now. Will post when I get back

[Micc]

We're back to the same place deadline wise. Someone wanna talk?

It’s time for you to put a vote down tbh. I don’t know if that was supposed to be a case for why you intend to vote bulbazoor or if you’re still waffling between me and him. I’ll go through and offer my thoughts on the things you pulled out in a sec but the tldr is that I’m not convinced.

I don’t intend to move my vote here which I guess means we’re no lynching?

[Micc]

Micc, saying that I'm not engaging you is a lie. You may not like the answers I'm giving, but we are having conversations. I'm the type of person who stops talking when I don't see anything new to add, maybe that bothers you? If you're "not satisfied" you could be a little more open about what you're not satisfied with.
This is not the point in the game where an OMGUS is acceptable. Pushing you on bad night actions is a sign of town, not scum.

I guess my problem is that you don't have anything new to add then. We can have all the conversations in the world but if you're not willing to put you're foot down and state what you believe to be true it doesn't mean any thing to me. All the while you think the conversations are over and was meaningful.

I don't know if you're pushing me for scum or if all these posts pushing simeon mean you're pushing him. You didn't make a vote but also didn't specifically ask anyone to comment the push. We got a two day extension and are once again up against the deadline. It's time for you to vote.

But I don't want to put words in your mouth. Can you honestly say that you look at my posts and you don't think I'm solving? If you go beyond being wrong on a few things (and several/most of us have been wrong on something), point to something that's illogical or manipulative. Please do. And if you can't, please admit you can't.

I don't think you're solving. Sure you've looked at the game, you've pulled stuff out, you've said stuff, but you haven't translated that into a solution. You weren't even willing to commit to Bob's slot being town. You're not looking for a solution, you were biding time until you could hammer my wagon for the win and now that bulba's afk you're testing the waters to see if that's a viable path to victory.

Spoiler:

One-liner percentage might be off a bit. I'll do this in batches of posts which have "content".

Didnt read the past 10 posts but mic is being opportunistic on page 2

How do ya even skip 10 measly posts?

Because it was nearly 1am and I was in bed and falling asleep and had to be up at 5 am for work. Will read when I have time

Oh cool. You read page 2, determine there that he was being opportunistic, ignore the rest, and then post.

This looks bad tbh

Page 3 nitpicking, and I'm generally against the practice of ignoring RL issues.

Tazaro has been dull so far. It feels like he's just posting to look town.

Like his posts are mostly comments and don't really stick to anything.

This does express a read, but remember the setup has high multiball probability so at this point in the game scum!anyone would be hunting. Notice though, it's stated very vaguely.

UNVOTE: Maruchan

@Maruchan what do you think of Micc's post 69?

VOTE: Tazaro

X, what do you think of Y, vote Z is a pattern that seems more scum than town to me. Additionally, it's an unvote without a stated reason. I'd need to look at context to see if there is an unstated one.

BTW, lest you try to claim anything about why I'm active now -- I'm not prepping food / running all over town / doing door buster shopping today.

*Not going to spend more time than necessary formatting here. Each of my sections is a response to each of your sections*
I don't think one-liner percentage is a viable scum hunting tool. Plenty of players are consistently successful with that type of posting style regardless of alignment.

What you call page 3 nitpicking is what Maruchan called being opportunistic on page two. I think they are both examples of early scumhunting.

Yup that's a read. You can call it vague, but I think it's more direct than the reads you've given at this stage.

You're welcome to think that pattern is more likely as scum than town, but without giving your reasoning and without you being willing go back and look at the context this means nothing to me.

I'm not in a place to complain about anyone's activity (except maybe bulbazoor) with how I've played this game so don't worry about that.

*gunna break this post up here and come back with responses to the rest in a sec*

[Micc]

Spoiler:

Tazaro has been dull so far. It feels like he's just posting to look town.

Like his posts are mostly comments and don't really stick to anything.

I am a one liner kind of guy; and this is like a preemptive criticism^ of me before switching off from who U were briefly "sticking" to before (maruchan) and then sticking to me for who knows what length of stint.
Stint away, but make good cases justifying Urself before you end up switching off and on.

Terrible post.

You do understand that Maruchan posted before i switched my vote to you?

I'm not voting you because you're a one liner kind of guy, I'm voting you because your one liners don't really look like they were made to help you sort who's town or who's scum. It look like they were made just to say something.

This one's kinda towny but it isn't material that is hard to fake. Plus the target is rather low hanging fruit, it isn't like anyone had to work especially hard for that scumread.

If you help me lynch him now and he flips red, I don't have to wonder if you're bussing.

Do you think I'm scum?

I have not done a meta dive, but I have noticed a lot of scum in general like to ask who is scumreading them. The post itself isn't game advancing.

gamma purposefully talking in riddles is also rather annoying.

I think Gamma's posts have been clear so far tbh

Information, no analysis. (I had the exact same thought, but don't remember thinking it was worth a post. If I did post I would expect I said it's NAI. I don't feel like opening another tab to check lol)

@Kitten no thoughts on me?

Again, scum ask this way more than town IMO.

Finally

@shortaru there is now support for the Tazaro wagon lols. Will you join?

Kinda manipulative, yet leaving it vague, not pressing a case at all.

Your comment on post 111 is a another good example of you not actually pursuing a solution. You make a read, but go back on it, and then never come to a solution. This is all white noise to me.

Your response to 114 and 157 need some more support for why you think they are viable tells because I'm strongly NAI on both. 141 is irronic because I don't know why you bothered to comment on the post that you're wondering why simeon bothered to comment on.

183 isn't manipulative. It's townblocking at it's finest. Asking mutual townreads to vote with you is just good play.

Spoiler:

because day 1 was a bucket full of null, and I needed a name, and the only person I felt had done anything of note was Micc pushing a policy on a role, so i investigated him

wtf. Shouldn't you have checked the ones not on the Tazaro wagon? since Tazaro flipped wolf?

Multi ball. Wagon analysis is useless this game buddy

Really? Multi ball doesn't mean you always wagon your partner, right?

multi ball means there might not BE any partners. We could have 3 1 man scum teams.

mafia/werewolf/replecant/alien/serial killer/cult.

How would knowing who lynched the werewolf matter if there is only one werewolf and there is also an alien and a mafia? by VCA reasoning the alien and the mafia could appear perfectly towny, and lynch the werewolf with the town, thinking he was town.

VCA is useless in great/er/est/grand idea

You're confusing the issue. You say you are a SEER. It's supposed to be your job then to look for another werewolf.

Other alignments don't matter right now let's ignore them for a bit.

It is true that town have no ideas on the scumteams, town could possibly be against a one man werewolf team and other non town-aligned roles, but your role as a seer is to look for another werewolf.

so I'm asking why did you investigate the guy who voted out the werewolf yesterday?

This is a good point, and it was a major contributing factor to my (incorrect) Maru scumread.
Picking on an obvious blunder isn't AI. Town and competing scum both have an interest in eliminating someone whose claim doesn't check out.

Spoiler: for micc

Yes I'm aware that that last sentence applies to me picking on your NA blunder.[.spoiler]

Again I'm left wondering why you felt the need to comment on this and what conclusion you reached from it.

Spoiler:

Kind of agree with Micc tbh. I badly want to vote somewhere else but Maru is the only one pinging me bad

VOTE: Maru

The timing of this vote

may

be important. Simeon made a very good case for Maru scum, then may have waited to see if someone else would vote there first. I don't see any evidence of Simeon scumreading anyone else, other than perhaps Micc. If he badly wanted to vote somewhere else, it almost has to be Micc he wanted to vote for. Why wouldn't town pursue that if they're getting cold feet on the presumptive lynch for the day? Scum might want to avoid annoying their MYLO/LYLO target prematurely.

Maruchan: Micc, Bicephalous Bob, Simeon, davesaz (4)

On my previous site we had the "3rd on the wagon" tell. I don't actually agree with that being accurate, but the guy who tried to make a strong case waited to vote it until the vote created a L-1.

396 is fine although I think it's more likely that simeon felt as I did. Maruchan was his biggest scum read, but he wasn't very sure about it. You not believing in the tell you're bringing up is pretty par for the course tho.

[Micc]

The point was to find someone who made at least one clearly town decision. If you're eliminated the decision becomes easy for me.

the point of what exactly? You've ruled me out now>

I'm not following at all.

[Micc]

now turn that thought around and ask yourself who

has

been open to lynching just anybody today...

[Micc]

davesaz

[Micc]

davesaz

You mean the guy who DIDN'T join me in voting you?

He sure wanted to. notice how he changed direction once bulba expressed having a mild town read on me?

[Micc]

Checked dave's ISO again, I don't see that you can reasonably conclude that he sure wanted to vote you. He complained that you chose a bad night action target. That's about it.

That's part of the problem tho. He doesn't come out and explicitly say I'm his lynch target, but he's clearly on that trajectory.

Spoiler:

Micc should have something more to say.
Bob what’s your take on how to use your role?

@MOD: Hypothetically if there were a treestump would stumping reset the deadline?

This is something we have to know. If the answer is no then we could get into lylo with no time left.

Micc target is horrible! Either alternative is better.
Simeon can be scum and fruit vendor but not sk.
Bob claim could be fake, and there is a scum stump.
My claim could be fake and there is a scum lover card.
I can’t imagine an experienced player making that targeting mistake.
OTOH why would an experienced player admit to it?
Wifom?

Town stump can turn mylo into lylo and continue to speak to help town so Bob’s answer is slightly fishy too.

If I am not in danger of being lynched, what should be the upsides of stumping from my point of view?

I already said what I think. I'm not sure it's an upside -- it might be a downside or it might not matter at all. My issue is that you didn't say anything either way regarding the outcomes (yes you mentioned risks but that's not the same), which makes me think you aren't thinking about the possible outcomes, which could mean you already know...

Right now my top scum candidate is Micc. He should have targeted me as top priority, especially if he thinks I'm scum.

Hmm, I was kinda hoping the answer on multiple actions would be no. Though yes was the expected answer TBH.
That means nobody is mechanically clear.
I could climb up on a pedestal and say I'm actually trying to solve and so I should be obv, but y'all

should

see that anyway.
Micc is a little sketch for trying to use my votes as evidence. VCA is pretty useless in a setup that's more likely to be MB than not.

You ignored my attempts to engage regarding kittenlicks during day 2

Umm, I'm fairly certain we had a conversation. You may not have been satisfied with it, and it's true that I didn't reply back to your last post on the subject, but I don't think it's fair to refer to it as not engaging. I also asked KittenLicks some things, and was satisfied with the answers. The point of that whole sequence was to challenge what seemed to be townreads both from and to her which were too easy.

I have the same problem with your night actions, in particular N2, as I had generally with Maru. I feel like a town role would know 100% what they should do with it. Or at least not do something 100% wrong. Especially after you had pointed out to KittenLicks that Simeon's role was 50/50 town or mafia -- if your role is what you claimed, it's hard to believe that you could point out the percentages to someone else and then forget them within a couple RL days (going by memory on that). There are plausible reasons you might have ignored the percentages and made that same play anyway, but you don't raise them as a defense.

It's pretty weak. Everything this game is weak. Dinner is ready so I need to stop typing.

I like Persivul so far, but I didn't quite tr bob. Micc seems genuine atm

I don't TR any of you. Might as well put it on the table.

Micc, saying that I'm not engaging you is a lie. You may not like the answers I'm giving, but we are having conversations. I'm the type of person who stops talking when I don't see anything new to add, maybe that bothers you? If you're "not satisfied" you could be a little more open about what you're not satisfied with.
This is not the point in the game where an OMGUS is acceptable. Pushing you on bad night actions is a sign of town, not scum.

But I don't want to put words in your mouth. Can you honestly say that you look at my posts and you don't think I'm solving? If you go beyond being wrong on a few things (and several/most of us have been wrong on something), point to something that's illogical or manipulative. Please do. And if you can't, please admit you can't.

Have you bothered to look at Simeon's ISO? I'm wondering if you see any original thought there. I looked before writing this post to see if my memory was right, and it's about 75% one liners. I can tell that you don't like my approach of testing whether people are genuine by asking them if they see what I see. Fine, I can show first, in another post.

Persivul seems much more town than Bob did.

That's davesaz's day 3 iso with any post where he's either pushing someone or stating a read up until he goes into the simeon case. There's a lot of pushing me, a little bit of pushing your slot (for what I still feel is completely unreasonable things), and absolutely nothing on simeon/bulba. Note how he finally chooses a direction once bulbazoor gives indication of his reads. It's natural scum instinct to want to be the last one to move and that's what I see when I look at his day 3 iso.

[Micc]

bob/persivul are town because scum doesn't claim treestump ever, much less as the last person in mass claim. persivul's replace in was strong also.
simeon is town because of his early game play was decent and also poe with you being scum. bulba i'm ignoring at this point.

[Micc]

Thinking about compiling a list of "scum don't do x ever" statements to use those tactics when I'm scum. People are so closed minded here.

You cleared me literally hours ago with the reasoning that I wouldn’t keep pushing the same wagon if I was scum. I think this is a tad over dramatic tbh.

If I’m game throwing here then I’ll apologize, look back and try to learn from it, but I’ve punted away enough lylo’s by not following my gut that I’m not going to do it again. I feel like I was pretty open minded to hearing your opinions up until I made my decision, so your claims of tunneling don’t feel all that reasonable either.

[Micc]

Intent to vote davesaz.

[Micc]

VOTE: bulbazoor

sorry

[Micc]

It had been so long since I played as scum that I forgot how much I hate it.

This was a roller coaster the whole way for me. I went back and forth from thinking I had a chance to nearly giving up multiple times.

[Micc]

You managed to do enough that looked town motivated, like not switching to my preferred Lynch.
Were you worried that one of them was another scum faction?

I was worried about an Alien shot but decided to play as if I was the only scum left. Simeon was confirmed town to me and I couldn't find much of a compelling case to push on anyone else so it made sense that the rest of the players were town.

Persivul's post about me being caught scum was completely true. My last ditch effort was to put my foot down and play as if I was convinced you were scum. Having something to focus on helped me loosen up and better mimic my town game. I like to think that I have a purpose for every post I make as town but as scum I was posting just because I knew I needed to post. I feel pretty lucky that it was enough to make you think I was town. I imagine bulbazoor's lack of looking town played a part as well.

[Micc]