Excalibur [Endgame]


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Post Post #17 (isolation #0) » Sun Nov 25, 2018 12:09 pm

Post by DVa »

Firebringer meant to say that DVa is Arthur
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Post Post #19 (isolation #1) » Sun Nov 25, 2018 12:11 pm

Post by DVa »

We should do unlimited hurt tags and have whoever gets a majority of hurt tags to duel the second most hurt player.

ie HURT: Elsa
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Post Post #22 (isolation #2) » Sun Nov 25, 2018 12:20 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 21, Elsa Jay wrote:Because your plan requires atleast one of them to be a willing participant to challenge the other.
It sure does, but if town agrees that having top scumreads duel each other is preferable to having people yolo duel then maybe it will discourage people from yolo dueling.

Most games with this mechanic are lost or become frustrating/boring for town because of yolo dueling. So there needs to be a clear town position that yolo dueling will result in losing the duel.
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Post Post #26 (isolation #3) » Sun Nov 25, 2018 12:29 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 15, Firebringer wrote:If you don’t know what I mean I am saying we all soft Merlin role and claim a person to be Arthur.
In case Merlin is night killed/lynched by accident we have our cleared townie.

Let me begin:
Varsoon is Arthur
Yeah if everyone hardclaims a merlin target then people have a 4/17 chance of being wrong, basically 1/4, which means that scum will narrow down the real merlin and Arthur by nearly half the player list.
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Post Post #51 (isolation #4) » Sun Nov 25, 2018 1:43 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 47, Auro wrote:Town should probably vote for a consensus scumread to claim Excalibur, for maximum benefit. If they're scum they can't claim and we get a confirmation in the night. If they're not scum and claim we know they're IC -- they're gonna either contribute the next day and kill themselves, or Merlin confirms they're Arthur and we move on.
I agree, if we can get the two top scumreads to gladiate each other, then the winner of the gladiation can claim the sword.
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Post Post #59 (isolation #5) » Sun Nov 25, 2018 1:50 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 53, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:Why are you people so convinced you can convince two scum to gladiate each other?
We make it clear that if they gladiate a bad target they get lynched.
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Post Post #60 (isolation #6) » Sun Nov 25, 2018 1:51 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 55, Auro wrote:Cool. If this IS a good strategy, we need to figure out a consensus forming mechanism to decide the top two scumreads.
Unlimited hurt tags.

Everyone can hurt as many players as they want, and when there's a 'hammer' (simple majority) on one, they gladiate the next highest.
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Post Post #66 (isolation #7) » Sun Nov 25, 2018 1:54 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 62, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:So the claimant gets to be bulletproof? So, then whomever is Merlin, should ideally claim the sword, right?
Merlin is already a unique named role, we get more value by having scumreads try to claim excalibur.
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Post Post #68 (isolation #8) » Sun Nov 25, 2018 1:57 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 67, Varsoon wrote:Honestly, we get more value from having a strong town leader claim the sword rather than using it as a jank cop on bad town that no one wants to keep around anyway.
Well, the jank town can then test if they're Arthur or not the next night phase, thus giving us another cop action the next night.
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Post Post #73 (isolation #9) » Sun Nov 25, 2018 1:58 pm

Post by DVa »

Also I don't really agree that having a single strong town leader dramatically helps us here, it nearly cost us Witches Ball. Scum knowing who the one IC is makes it too easy for them to play around that slot. Consistently pushing PoE wins more often.
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Post Post #101 (isolation #10) » Sun Nov 25, 2018 2:20 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 94, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:we make them gladiate the following day and lose and so on and so on and so on, until we kill all but one scum and if the vig is actually successful, then Merlin kind of becomes irrelevant anyway.
uh, no, the person who has claimed the sword does not gladiate the next day lol. This is because it's revealed that the sword has been claimed, so if only one person claims to have claimed the sword, that person is town.

Merlin is someone who can avoid a gladiation by claiming his role, although it does guarantee he dies shortly afterward.
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Post Post #103 (isolation #11) » Sun Nov 25, 2018 2:21 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 99, Auro wrote:Merlin can't prove he is Merlin then though
scum never counterclaim merlin in this setup unless it's lylo or something
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Post Post #146 (isolation #12) » Sun Nov 25, 2018 3:18 pm

Post by DVa »

Dude Merlin doesn't claim the sword, that's mechanical redundancy and strictly anti-town

We want two ICs not one, wtf, you're better than this people
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Post Post #189 (isolation #13) » Sun Nov 25, 2018 4:05 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 181, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:Oh okay then. So anyone - other than Merlin - should do this, if they’re convinced they’ve found scum. Got it.
Not unless they want to be lynched

Yolodueling is precisely what made town lose in BoR
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Post Post #198 (isolation #14) » Sun Nov 25, 2018 4:11 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 191, SirCakez wrote:useless fights are gonna be more useful in the scumhunting game though
I'm blown away that you think useless fights won't kill player interest but 7 pages of opening discussion will

Gladiations immediately limit town scumhunting potential and lock the dayphase into two people. That will nuke *my* interest in the game if people start doing it, which is precisely why I want town to be aware that yolo-dueling will result in the yoloing player getting lynched every time. There is nothing more boring to me than seeing two townreads gladiate each other because one had a momentary fleeting thought that the other was scum.

Town doing shitty gladiates on other town is pretty much the foundation of the scum wincon here because the gladiation mechanic will mean that until the lynch goes through they don't have to commit to any other read on any other player and can coast--and town will want to coast too. Basically gladiations force the town to come to standstill until someone dies.
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Post Post #236 (isolation #15) » Sun Nov 25, 2018 4:34 pm

Post by DVa »

How is there more value in having a pointless stealth IC than there is in townclearing the next day's lynch or mislynch?

And you are ignoring the possibility that the *next consensus scumread is scum* in which case we get a GUILTY and the sword is unclaimed and then we get to use the test again.

Do you not get that?

You guys are not playing toward best case scenario.

Best case scenario:
We force top two scumreads to gladiate
The winner is forced to claim sword
But they're scum so they don't and it remains unclaimed
Then we lynch them and rinse, repeat the next day

Like you all are thinking only of sword giving us an IC but it's *way more valuable* as having the potential to give us guilties

Effectively it gives us the chance to have a public daycop and a lynch each day phase

So no, "everyone claims the sword" is a shit plan
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Post Post #242 (isolation #16) » Sun Nov 25, 2018 4:36 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 222, Untrod Tripod wrote:
In post 216, Varsoon wrote:Everyone tries to claim sword N1.
Whoever gets it enjoys being BP and can claim if they need to confirm as IC if dueled.
If Merlin survives to D2,
Merlin claims to become IC
and, if he knows Arthur has the sword, he says so and Arthur keeps their mouth shut or
if he knows Arthur doesn't have the sword then he claims who Arthur is and boom
T
Image
Considering 216 is an awful plan, I'm going to go ahead and HURT: Tripod
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Post Post #252 (isolation #17) » Sun Nov 25, 2018 4:41 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 243, Varsoon wrote:216's a great plan and the only one that accounts for all of town not being on the goddamn ball.
You're basically saying "town don't even try for cohesion"
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Post Post #257 (isolation #18) » Sun Nov 25, 2018 4:46 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 254, Varsoon wrote:@DVa: Or more realistically understanding that it's fucking hard to reign in 13 other jackasses and not hinging an entire plan around it.
Stop shading me with that ish.
You're asking me to stop telling you that your plan sucks?

You want Merlin to fucking claim day 2 and you want town to attempt 0% cohesion and waste the only investigative tool we have.
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Post Post #260 (isolation #19) » Sun Nov 25, 2018 4:50 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 254, Varsoon wrote:@Dunn: Except it fuckin' confirms them as ICs what don't you understand about how IC works
Do YOU not understand the value of a stealth IC?

You think everything about the setup is obvious but literally no part of your plan reflects critical thought about how to play the setup

Pedit: OK well that's nice that you're capable of engaging with criticism
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Post Post #272 (isolation #20) » Sun Nov 25, 2018 5:00 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 266, Auro wrote:The problems Varsoon and I have posed haven't been answered -- that plan is reliant on amazing town cohesion which is far fetched.
Having everyone claim the sword n1 provides the town with the least conceivable information d2.

It is not just a bad plan, it is the worst plan.

216 is not a strategy, it is an anti-strategy.
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Post Post #277 (isolation #21) » Sun Nov 25, 2018 5:07 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 274, Auro wrote:@DVa: Present a plan that doesn't go whack if two/three town don't stick to it.
Why don't you present a better plan than 216?
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Post Post #421 (isolation #22) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:03 pm

Post by DVa »

Gamma when did you change your pronoun to "It"? Should I stop referring to you as "He"?

Like the new avi btw :)
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Post Post #423 (isolation #23) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:05 pm

Post by DVa »

Nope
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Post Post #425 (isolation #24) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:06 pm

Post by DVa »

I don't know but probably not?
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Post Post #427 (isolation #25) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:08 pm

Post by DVa »

Are we talking game day or rl day?
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Post Post #430 (isolation #26) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:11 pm

Post by DVa »

Why's that?
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Post Post #432 (isolation #27) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:13 pm

Post by DVa »

Okie dokie.

Is there anyone in this list you would say you can correctly read consistently?
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Post Post #439 (isolation #28) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 12:30 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 436, Gamma Emerald wrote:Could’ve picked She but It felt more in line with my avatar character
I waffle around on whether I want to use my preferred pronoun or play the “match the flavor” game
Yeah but do I actually call you "It" or not? :P

Is your avi not Link?
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Post Post #465 (isolation #29) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:07 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 461, Auro wrote:Looks like a scumslip, does Firebringer usually say these sorta things?
Did you miss him claiming scum the first time?
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Post Post #473 (isolation #30) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:11 pm

Post by DVa »

UT what do you think of LLD?
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Post Post #477 (isolation #31) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:16 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 475, Auro wrote:I actually weakly think UT is town.
why?
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Post Post #489 (isolation #32) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:24 pm

Post by DVa »

Gamma Emerald -- probable town
Varsoon -- possible town
MariaR -- possible town
Dunnstral -- possible town

Something_Smart -- null
VeridianCleric -- null
SirCakez -- null
Ariane -- null
Nancy Drew 39 -- null
Frozen Angel -- MIA

Auro -- possible scum
Elsa Jay -- possible scum
Firebringer -- claimed scum
Untrod Tripod -- possible scum
Lady Lambdadelta -- possible scum
Kokichi Oma -- possible scum

only 4 scum so need to sort the town out of my possible scums at some point.
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Post Post #493 (isolation #33) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:26 pm

Post by DVa »

Guess thinking about it I should do this even though it's just gut right now

HURT: Kokichi
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Post Post #502 (isolation #34) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:32 pm

Post by DVa »

To be clear, I'm still playing by "unlimited hurt tags" so I am currently voting Kokichi, Tripod, and Elsa.

As I said, primarily gut, but also I'd say he seems way more aggressive here than he did in Witches Ball.
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Post Post #517 (isolation #35) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:39 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 509, Gamma Emerald wrote:This is town holy shit
Why?
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Post Post #521 (isolation #36) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:41 pm

Post by DVa »

Spoiler:
In post 117, Kokichi Oma wrote:LLD flipped scum again it's looking like
In post 409, Kokichi Oma wrote:
In post 121, Gamma Emerald wrote:
In post 117, Kokichi Oma wrote:LLD flipped scum again it's looking like
Not feeling this
HURT: Auro btw
Why? Do you know she flipped town?
In post 412, Kokichi Oma wrote:
In post 173, Auro wrote:Also, is talking heavily about mechanics anti-town in your opinion, or is it because you think scum's trying to hide behind the veil of mechanic discussion and achieve towncred through it?

Which part of step 3?
I STRONGLY feel that if Arthur has the sword, Merlin should confirm it. NOT confirming that is anti-town.
And if non-Arthur has the sword, Merlin shouldn't say anything. Coming out is anti-town.
Bad logic.
In post 413, Kokichi Oma wrote:But I kinda feel auro is town.
In post 445, Kokichi Oma wrote:gamma scummy

HURT: gamma


Compared to Witches Ball this is "aggressive"

I know compared to Varsoon it's like lying in a meadow of flowers but I'm going by how he usually sounds as town
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Post Post #525 (isolation #37) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:42 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 518, Auro wrote:Best general scumplay ATM is probably to troll around and distract from town beginning to work together, and try to draw them into gladiating at worst.
ok who specifically is trolling and do you therefore think they're scum?
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Post Post #535 (isolation #38) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:47 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 530, Auro wrote:Got those vibes from Kokichi, she did this in early game too if I remember right.
I mean, Kokichi is scummy, but I don't see how he can be characterized as trolling here
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Post Post #541 (isolation #39) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:49 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 533, Gamma Emerald wrote:there’s a 1/4 chance we get a dead mafia n1.
There's 0% chance scum claim the sword Gamma don't shake my read on you
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Post Post #544 (isolation #40) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:51 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 533, Gamma Emerald wrote:LLD is concerned about paranoia right?
LLD is scummy, so I'm not opposed to her claiming the sword, but I don't see why you would be concerned with LLD's paranoia as a force for the town's collective night actions. She's acting as though people are scumreading her based on BoP when literally no one is doing that rn.
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Post Post #546 (isolation #41) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 4:52 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 543, Auro wrote:He said in his next sentence, "Of course this crumbles if Maf don't go for it, which is the probable case"
Yeah it's just weird seeing Gamma spew out a weird theory only to immediately dismiss it tbh
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Post Post #563 (isolation #42) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:08 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 549, Elsa Jay wrote:532 basically makes me want to follow this man willingly. I like when people put effort into their stuff like that.

On another note, Firebringer roasting Lady and keeping calm doesn't earn town points, but gets respect.
Elsa why does every post you make strike me as scummy this game
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Post Post #567 (isolation #43) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:09 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 552, VeridianCleric wrote:do you (DvA) think that perhaps that those two are working together more than we anticipate?
No, I don't think Gamma entertaining a shitty idea makes [it] a great teammate for Varsoon, at the moment I still think Varsoon is town who presented a bad idea in earnest and Gamma is town entertaining a bad idea in an awkward way
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Post Post #568 (isolation #44) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:10 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 565, Firebringer wrote:i don't find anything elsa posted to be scummy.
in case anyone was wondering.
Do you find Elsa's posts townie?
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Post Post #574 (isolation #45) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:13 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 569, Dunnstral wrote:How about we let Varsoon, UT, and LLD go for the sword? They've all already volunteered their intentions to go for the sword, and they seemed pretty bent on going for it
Yeah, I'd prefer a third other than Varsoon personally, but I'm also not going to bother trying to stop him. I'd rather Elsa, if we must have a third
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Post Post #576 (isolation #46) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:14 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 570, Elsa Jay wrote:Because I cant wait until day 4 this game to get mislynched like last time we battled.
are you mei or mercy this game?
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Post Post #580 (isolation #47) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:18 pm

Post by DVa »

Well you didn't literally claim scum again so I guess that's a good sign
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Post Post #583 (isolation #48) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:20 pm

Post by DVa »

No, they won't be town leader, they'll be innocent child

It's not the same thing

We don't need a town leader and someone being unclaimed sword-holder will not make them 'town leader' when the reason we let them claim in the first place was them being scummy

and if UT gets the sword the issue self-resolves anyway, so stop worrying about it Auro wtf
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Post Post #588 (isolation #49) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:24 pm

Post by DVa »

Elsa what do you think of LLD and UT rn?
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Post Post #595 (isolation #50) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:26 pm

Post by DVa »

Veridian, who is scum?
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Post Post #598 (isolation #51) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:27 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 596, Elsa Jay wrote:Like how we lynched BEF for floundering super hard.
no "we" with me, I wasn't on that wagon :P
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Post Post #607 (isolation #52) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:33 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 600, Varsoon wrote:@Gamma: I think you horribly misunderstand the rules. The sword doesn't cycle. Once a townie gets it, they're BP. They'll never be lynched either, because they can just claim sword-holder and so long as Merlin is alive, Merlin can confirm.

the cycling of the sword referred to probably meant non-arthurs taking shots and dying, thus making the sword available again
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Post Post #612 (isolation #53) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:34 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 605, Firebringer wrote:ughhh

lets drop it.
this is a dumb argument.
Dunn is this a town tell for Fire in your opinion? does he drop dumb arguments as scum? I don't remember anything like this in Witches Ball
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Post Post #618 (isolation #54) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:36 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 608, Elsa Jay wrote:Let's say Lady gets the sword and the first thing she does is challenge me day 2 so town will never get the option to do anything. You lynch me because I'm not the sword wielder. Lady gets her way.

Lady does the same thing day 3, and again, she wins since she has the sword. Day 4, guess what, she does the same thing.

I will forever hang a shitty town if it means the rest of the player base has fun.
lol you must think LLD really is RC
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Post Post #623 (isolation #55) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:37 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 620, Gamma Emerald wrote:Fucking read further instead of knee-jerking
Why did you write a paragraph of "oh yeah but scum never does this" anyway
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Post Post #625 (isolation #56) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:39 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 621, Gamma Emerald wrote:That’s not my weird theory for fucks sake
was that paragraph sarcasm?
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Post Post #629 (isolation #57) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:41 pm

Post by DVa »

Like LLD is high strung but I don't at present think she'd yolo gladiate people if she had the sword, she's not an idiot and knows that would be awful for town information
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Post Post #631 (isolation #58) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:41 pm

Post by DVa »

I'm inclined to agree with Fire, Auro you're saying some wild shit this game
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Post Post #633 (isolation #59) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:42 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 631, DVa wrote:I'm inclined to agree with Fire, Auro you're saying some wild shit this game
ebwop -- this was re the hurt in 628
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Post Post #640 (isolation #60) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:44 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 627, Auro wrote:This is a valid concern - Gladiation mechanics means the holder may force us to kills, if town never lynches the holder.
like this seems like fearmongering

We are not playing around the assumption that the sword holder plays like garbage.
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Post Post #645 (isolation #61) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:47 pm

Post by DVa »

So you think UT or Varsoon would?
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Post Post #648 (isolation #62) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:48 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 643, Auro wrote:it's a non-negligible possibility, and we should be prepared to deal with it if it happens.
WHO DO YOU IMAGINE DOING THIS THOUGH?

Why is it actually a non-negligible possibility and why is it worth talking about right now when it is so remote?
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Post Post #650 (isolation #63) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:49 pm

Post by DVa »

Here you go Fire chan
Spoiler:


Don't know if you're into this genre yet tho so let me know
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Post Post #653 (isolation #64) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:51 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 646, Varsoon wrote:We can have civil discussions but you framing it like I'm the problem here when it's clear you haven't read my posts is troubling.
You haven't fully explained why the mass claim would need to be d2 though. By your logic it seems as though mass claim should be d1. Why not day 3? Why is the math best on d2 specifically?
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Post Post #656 (isolation #65) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:52 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 651, Elsa Jay wrote:I actually find it funny I'm the one who brings it up but Auro is the one getting shit on for agreeing with me.
Yeah cause I'm already hurting you so it's nothing new from you, also BoP is higher for Auro
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Post Post #658 (isolation #66) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 5:53 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 655, Auro wrote:I can imagine UT doing this (set the vig apart), he literally said "just gladiate your scumreads".
if you think UT is this bad of a liability as town why not just have him lynched today?
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Post Post #681 (isolation #67) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:08 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 674, Dunnstral wrote:Oro should I be scouting the playerlist for 'good at both town and scum, that is both hard to read and very strong to have as a town leader.' myself?
so Maria?
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Post Post #697 (isolation #68) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:21 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 690, Dunnstral wrote:@DVa what do you think of this

you're right, he's a bit more aggressive than I remember, but I still feel like he's a bit scummy off gut here tbh
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Post Post #698 (isolation #69) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:21 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 696, Dunnstral wrote:What is the threshold for a lol gladiate being turned into an ethical certified town ap proved gladiate?
9 hurts
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Post Post #714 (isolation #70) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:31 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 709, MariaR wrote:Ms Dva how did you reach these 3 as scum? They're people that are murky and I would like more input on. With all these posts and how you play 'just gut' isn't all I expect you to have

Tripod for agreeing with Varsoon's post while obviously processing 0% of it seemed scummy AF

Elsa just doesn't read as authentic in his posts so far
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Post Post #717 (isolation #71) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:37 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 715, Auro wrote:It's pretty clear that he agreed with the "Let's shut up and play" part of the post, not necessarily the strategy parts. I hope this alone is not why you're scumreading him.
Is that pretty clear?
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Post Post #726 (isolation #72) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:53 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 722, Auro wrote:Also,
FoS: DVa. She's a lot more chatty as town, and finds it difficult to emulate that as scum.
She has had not a *single* non-serious post this game, excepting 650, a (seemingly half-hearted) response to Firebringer asking her for vids/GIFs.
DVa, do you think my meta evaluation of you is fair?

Did you read Witches Ball?
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Post Post #727 (isolation #73) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:54 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 725, MariaR wrote:If I had my way right now:
Smart/LLD would be dueling
winner goes for the sword along with Dva or UT.
Does this mean you're scumreading me Maria?
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Post Post #728 (isolation #74) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:56 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 718, MariaR wrote:If only you knew this during witches ball. Oh well soldiers live and learn with experience
I mean, yeah? I'm very much thinking of Witches Ball here and RC nearly throwing that game makes me pretty suspicious of the value of 'town leaders'.
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Post Post #734 (isolation #75) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:04 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 729, Auro wrote:I might have, in the past. If you're referring to the post where you actually recognize that self-meta, I did read it before.
FYPOV why is my meta evaluation of you wrong?
Your experience with me is from:
One newbie game as town
One Mini Normal as town
One newbie game as scum

In the Mini Normal, I joked tanks briefly in RVS and then was serious for pretty much the rest of the game
In the town newbie, I provoked the new players with nicknames
In the scum newbie, I played seriously

So while I think I can see where you'd come up with that, you are ignoring the Mini Normal, and you have not read Witches Ball, which is the closer analogue to how I'd interact with this list. In Witches Ball I for the most part was pretty serious

So I would say you're being selective in your meta analysis, yes, unless the Mini Normal left less of an impact because you were dead
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Post Post #738 (isolation #76) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:18 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 736, Auro wrote:Mini Normal 2040 doesn't easily fit here because you did start getting serious at the A50-NM policy no-lynch, which happened before my death. Till that point you were chummy here and there, so fits the pattern.
True but that was only like a few posts? We're past RVS here. If you're scumreading me because I'm not posting memes at post 70 then your use of meta is rather weak my friend
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Post Post #739 (isolation #77) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:20 pm

Post by DVa »

Maybe you feel like I'm scummy because I'm less jokey with you in particular given that I'm not locking you as town as quickly as I did in the newbie game? Have you considered the possibility your read of me is warped because you are not used to me scumreading you?
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Post Post #744 (isolation #78) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:34 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 743, Auro wrote:Your complete lack of chummy/teasing posts (Don't have to be memes, you'd often just insert this kinda stuff into posts) increases the likelihood of your being scum, doesn't it?

You're also ignoring that:
a) everyone complained about it in the newbie game (even if it helped my win)
and
b) the reason I was doing it (its success in BoR) was proven to be a total failure in 2040

Basically Elsa ruined my memes.
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Post Post #749 (isolation #79) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:41 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 745, Auro wrote:It's just your style -- You do it because you like doing it, not for some scumhunting advantage.
This is actually where you're wrong
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Post Post #751 (isolation #80) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:48 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 750, Auro wrote:@DVa:
If you're saying your chumminess is strictly as a scumhunting tool, I don't trust you on that.
If you're trying to imply that you'd discard all chumminess because of those factors in 744, then I definitely don't trust you on that.
You were pretty excited to join this game, and I doubt you'd approach it throughout with the dead-serious attitude you've been carrying the entire game.

OK

Are you joking as much?

Why are you tryharding so much?

I thought you wanted to channel your inner Not_Mafia?

Should I meta you as scum because you're not joking enough?
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Post Post #753 (isolation #81) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:50 pm

Post by DVa »

btw, doing a d1 meta argument is shitty in the first place. Now if I wanted to actually joke because the mechanics discussion was over you'd be overreading into it which means you're basically provoking me into being less funny which is not helping my wim in a game that already has kinda pissed me off
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Post Post #754 (isolation #82) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:52 pm

Post by DVa »

HURT: Auro

Here's what I think of your case on me.
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Post Post #757 (isolation #83) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:01 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 755, Auro wrote:I generally don't joke/play with a chummy attitude off the bat, I get comfortable with the playerlist first.
OK, and I'm already familiar with the vast majority of this player list. So maybe I'm not being as "chummy" because I have already used most of my opening jokes with half the players in this game, and the ones I'm unfamiliar with haven't really inspired me to be funny

So you yourself admit that your level of chumminess varies based on your familiarity with a player list. In that case, why would you think that I would be the same amount of chummy with a playerlist that I'm already familiar with as a playerlist that I'm meeting for the first time?

You're acting as though I would play this like a newbie game where I literally know one person, instead of a game composed of like 20 people I literally just completed a game with.
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Post Post #758 (isolation #84) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:03 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 756, Auro wrote:Where has this game pissed you off already?

Are you being intentionally dense? Maybe the part where Varsoon told me to die because he didn't like my plan?

Sure wish you rolled town here but I don't think you're changing my read based on how shitty this push is.
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Post Post #759 (isolation #85) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:07 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 756, Auro wrote:(FWIW, in the current gamestate scum!me would have attempted to pocket you by now)
In post 202, Auro wrote:Early townread on DVa as well.
You were evaluating me as town based on play earlier but now have decided to flip your read for reachy meta reasons, shortly after I indicate I'm not townreading you.

You were trying to pocket me and now when you saw it was backfiring you're trying to push.

Sorry you rolled scum Auro.
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Post Post #762 (isolation #86) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:16 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 761, Auro wrote:cos I did not.
Where's your "I'm lying when I say I am" response? Why so serious Auro?
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Post Post #765 (isolation #87) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:19 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 761, Auro wrote:I don't think you'd get as pissed off at the game because of that
To be clear, you think that someone telling me TO DIE in a game I play for FUN would not make me less interested in being jokey?

I do know Varsoon, as scum he was very pleasant. As town he's obnoxious. So yeah, at the moment that makes me even more annoyed, because if he claims the sword I'm dealing with a game where the most obnoxious person is going to get the sword and never use it. So no, this game has not been as fun so far as I was anticipating. So now the game is disappointing and you're trying to push a scumcase on me because this game isn't as fun as I thought it'd be.

Keep pushing it Auro. Keep pushing it and see where it gets you.
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Post Post #767 (isolation #88) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:22 pm

Post by DVa »

So who do you want to gladiate Auro? Would you prefer LLD or UT?
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Post Post #768 (isolation #89) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:28 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 767, DVa wrote:So who do you want to gladiate Auro? Would you prefer LLD or UT?
You should start thinking about this because you're gladiating today and then you're going to killed with a sword.
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Post Post #770 (isolation #90) » Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:29 pm

Post by DVa »

HEAL: All
HURT: Auro

You're now my only priority.
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Post Post #881 (isolation #91) » Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:50 pm

Post by DVa »

UT, as people have observed, this is in some ways a toned down version of BoR. BoR was a disaster for town precisely because people yolo dueled every dayphase which nuked the chance for town to develop reads or really sort before hammers were thrown out. Also, while you say that "this is what makes the setup unique" that doesn't mean that's how it actually is played toward a town wincon. In fact, FakeGod observed that townies treating the mechanic as a hero shot *went against how he imagined it playing out*. In fact I think the reason this looks so much like BoR is because he saw BoR as a kind of failure and wanted to put in a bit more of a buffer so that town at least have a chance to sort and have a bit more of a guaranteed length to the dayphase instead of letting individuals immediately end day because they had a read.
In post 1050, FakeGod wrote:The setup didn't play out the way I envisioned because town treated the desperados as hero shots (or really a selfish way to get "infinite" votes and decide the day immediately), rather than a mechanic to clear two people with each lynch. I thought if I included a heavy penalty for desperado shots (which was any death = end the day), town would show more hesitance with their desperado shots. I was wrong and players hip-fired every day.
So you saying people who want some amount of coordination are "not playing the setup as it's designed" suggests to me you think FakeGod created a "yoloduel" game when that is not what he actually does and is not how many of us are going into this game.
In post 880, Untrod Tripod wrote:a number of people have said "omg you want to hurt TOWN COHESION" but all I saw in that plan (the one of "omg only duel if everyone agrees to it") is a way for scum to hide slash direct town to mislynches. I'm guessing the fantasy is that you'll somehow convince scum to duel each other, but I don't think that ever really happens. Otherwise my experience tells me that it's not materially any better than someone just dueling a strong scumread.
I have basically been saying hurt tags are votes so I don't see why you thought they were anything else. I don't see why you'd think it's any more of a way for scum to hide than normal voting is when basically what we're doing is voting on the people we want to see gladiate, which is effectively the same thing as lynching them, the key *difference from normal voting that the person who doesn't get lynched might become an innocent child if they claim the sword*. The setup is different.

But treating this game as a "yolo duel" fest will turn it into another scum win disaster like BoR which is why some of us started off this game a) making sure people understood that yolo dueling would result in a lynch on them and not their scumread and b) making sure people still tried to maintain some basic modicum of town coordination. I know you weren't in BoR so you were not coming from that trainwreck so your context here is different but I also don't get why you felt the need to make it seem like the setup was obvious in its design when how we play dayphases is actually quite open to interpretation.
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Post Post #882 (isolation #92) » Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:51 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 876, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:Why? Have you read any of my scumgames on this site? I’m guessing no.
Which of your scumgames do you think are most informative for reads on you Nancy?
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Post Post #883 (isolation #93) » Tue Nov 27, 2018 1:56 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 875, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:Holy shit, he sounds very similar here. Can someone link me to an Auro town game for comparison purposes?
Since Auro has apparently decided that if I don't play every game like Newbie 1899 I'm therefore scum, you should probably take a glance at it since it also gives a sense of how he approaches an almost entirely new playerlist as town: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=77730

I did at first get his read on me because I do sound very different here than I did there, so I get he doesn't understand that I entered this game playing it to avoid a town gamethrow like BoR, which the mod clearly wanted to learn some lessons from. But he's still scum because pushing a "you're not funny" meta case on me when he's townreading me based on play suggests that he has an agenda and is beneath his townplay frankly. He would consider a lot more scenarios than the one's he's been willing to entertain here; his cases as scum tend to read a lot weaker and his attempts to pocket me earlier today are also why I wasn't townreading him earlier.
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Post Post #891 (isolation #94) » Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:15 pm

Post by DVa »

Auro wrote: I've played alongside scum!DVa before, and "seriousness" is a part of her scum meta -- just check her games. What makes this stronger is that she won't deny that she *finds it harder* to be chummy as scum. Just ask her that.
You've played alongside scum!me *replacing in to a townread slot in an already winning position on day 2* where I was under absolutely no obligation or expectation to 'chum it up' and where I *was not in RVS*. So again, you are saying I wouldn't be jokey in RVS as scum when your only example there is *a game where I was scumread from pregame and nearly lynched in RVS* and a game *where I was not in RVS*. Like, your meta argument *is shit* because you are comparing games where I have been *jokey in RVS as town* to games where either *I was not in RVS* or games *where there IS NO RVS* and the whole fucking point of my mechanics discussion here was to get to the point that we could *have meaningful votes at all and not just yolo duel*

>Town!DVa is jokey in RVS
>Scum!DVa has never been in RVS where she wasn't already getting lynched
>This game had no RVS

-->making an argument about how many JOKES I would make in a PHASE OF THE GAME THAT DID NOT OCCUR THIS GAME is LUDICROUS

Get gladiated so I can lynch you kthxbai
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Post Post #892 (isolation #95) » Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:18 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 890, Auro wrote:DVa is posing it like it was the unfamiliarity with the playerbase in 2040 that made me play differently, I object
I am arguing that you making reachy, bullshit arguments that reflect a large number of baseless assumptions is ABSOLUTELY scum indicative for you
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Post Post #895 (isolation #96) » Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:33 pm

Post by DVa »

Your case is that I'm unfunny this game.

That is reachy bullshit and not even remotely scum indicative, in addition to being simply lowkey insulting considering the game barely fucking began, and apparently you're now a fucking expert on how "chummy" I am at a baseline and also an expert on when people are saying and doing stupid things in a game that pisses me off. Every other argument you're making seems like it's meant to piss me off more than advance the game and it's sure as shit working. Your townplay isn't this fucking passive aggressive or manipulative.

I know you're capable of less shitty cases than this as scum but I also don't think I'm your planned mislynch for today, I think you wanted towncred for a shitty push on someone you have existing meta with. Either that or you've simply decided to make the douchiest possible day 1 meta case of me, in which case, you made a serious fucking mistake because I am rapidly losing interest in entertaining arguments you're town.

Get gladiated.
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Post Post #897 (isolation #97) » Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:37 pm

Post by DVa »

Yes, I *both* thought that we needed to avoid a shitty gladiation and *also* thought my existing jokes were overused. I had *both* positive incentive to talk about mechanics and reign in the incentive for yolo gladiations and *negative incentive* to do my usual schtick. This is not hard to understand and once again you are presenting things that are *not* contradictions as contradictions, i.e., REACHY BULLSHIT
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Post Post #904 (isolation #98) » Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:48 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 902, Auro wrote:Except for her own admission that she finds it a lot harder as scum to be non-serious.
Except this is literally something I have never said
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Post Post #907 (isolation #99) » Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:52 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 905, Varsoon wrote:There's literally nothing keeping you from being the one doing the gladiating other than some sense of self-preservation that you shouldn't even care about because if you're town you can just claim sword.
I would prefer for the town to be convinced by my case, hurt Auro, and then have him gladiate another scumread. Gladiating him myself gives me nothing to find his buddies
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Post Post #908 (isolation #100) » Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:53 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 906, Auro wrote:Okay, so do you *deny* it?
Or would you say such a thing?
Do I deny saying the thing I never said? I sure do

Would I say something that is untrue about my self meta? Probably, most people don't describe their self meta at all because having people argue about their self meta is unfun and stupid
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Post Post #910 (isolation #101) » Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:54 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 905, Varsoon wrote:You keep saying that but you keep not dueling.
There's literally nothing keeping you from being the one doing the gladiating other than some sense of self-preservation that you shouldn't even care about because if you're town you can just claim sword.
btw, this right here is precisely why I began this game by arguing against yolo dueling. Because even though *I would gladiate Auro rn* doing so would be harmful to town's endgame and sorting process.
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Post Post #913 (isolation #102) » Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:01 pm

Post by DVa »

I first needed to establish that you were lying about things I said in my self meta. You have wasted like two pages of thread space arguing I have said I am not chummy when I'm scum when I have literally never said that. You are filling space in the thread pointlessly provoking me with reachy bullshit. Argument after argument of meta crap that is either baseless or not pertinent to this game. Even if true, it wouldn't be scum indicative here, and it *isn't even true*.

So tell us Auro, why did you decide to make multiple arguments that all hinge on me saying something I have never actually said? Are you only trying to provoke me? Are you trying to pollute the thread with a facile and meritless argument? Or are you simply trying to inflate your post count and come off as engaged? Because I see literally no possible town motivation in *pretending I said shit I never said and then using that to scum case me*
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Post Post #922 (isolation #103) » Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:10 pm

Post by DVa »

@Auro, Do you really fucking think I'm going to give you more self-meta bullshit to misremember and misrepresent? If you're unable to interpret what I have already said why would I give you more? You haven't earned it.

@Varsoon, You're not thinking in the longer term. D1 two scum reads gladiate, one is mislynched, the other gets the sword if they're town (or maybe someone else gets it if they're scum). If they don't get the sword and they gladiate again, and flip scum, then we can more usefully look back at the previous votes and see which were more likely to be busses or informed and which were more likely lost town. The point isn't for a single wagon to be game-winning it's for each dayphase to maximize information so that as we move toward lylo the living players have more useful information to evaluate.
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Post Post #928 (isolation #104) » Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:17 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 919, Auro wrote:Because you've said it elsewhere, I've read it before.
Prove it or accept that you have either been misrepresenting me or lying.
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Post Post #929 (isolation #105) » Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:18 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 927, Varsoon wrote:I'll also be honest that I am not following and have no clue what this meta case between Auro and D.Va even is founded on.
Auro decided to make up things and attribute to me
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Post Post #930 (isolation #106) » Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:19 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 926, Varsoon wrote:@D.VA: I don't see how the cross-gladiate maximizes info versus people just gladiating their biggest scumreads, though.
If a widely townread player gladiates a widely scumread player then it is incredibly difficult to separate busses from actual votes
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Post Post #931 (isolation #107) » Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:21 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 925, Auro wrote:I won't interpret, let town do that.
I don't think town cares, I think only you do, and you're not town so far.

Or do you expect me to believe you have gone into a 1v1 with me for multiple pages but never bothered to find a quote where I say the thing that is the entire basis of your case on me?
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Post Post #950 (isolation #108) » Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:34 pm

Post by DVa »

@Auro, So just to be clear, you cannot, in fact, find anything resembling the quote in question, but you based an entire meta argument of me and started a 1v1 based on something you cannot actually attribute to me. i.e., you made up a quote, attributed it to me, and used it to advance a scum case on me.

If you remember right, and this is the important part, I said that your case on me is reachy bullshit.

So I would now like you to admit that your case on me is reachy bullshit.

And then, I'll ask again, who would you like to gladiate today?
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Post Post #951 (isolation #109) » Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:35 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 948, Firebringer wrote:you know we could potentially have three confirmed town. (i don't know if anyone pointed that out)
merlin confirms arthur.
and sword holder is town.

someone might have said that and i am just not invested in the mechanic talk to read it.
Varsoon just rolled his eyes
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Post Post #961 (isolation #110) » Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:13 pm

Post by DVa »

Perhaps "I have never said that" wasn't a big enough fucking hint for you?
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Post Post #963 (isolation #111) » Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:15 pm

Post by DVa »

OK

So, you cannot find said quote

You want to scumcase me based on a non-existent statement

and you want me to directly refute things that you think might have been from an ongoing game

so either you

a) are misrepresenting something I said in a completed game (i.e., you are scummy)
or
b) are misrepresenting something I said in an ongoing game (i.e., you should be force replaced)

which do you prefer?
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Post Post #968 (isolation #112) » Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:21 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 961, DVa wrote:Perhaps "I have never said that" wasn't a big enough fucking hint for you?
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Post Post #981 (isolation #113) » Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:37 pm

Post by DVa »

The fact that you're trying to scumcase me based on a) something I never said, b) something I never would say, c) something that if I said something similar to and you were misrepresenting it, would require me to break site rules, and d) something that the rest of the thread cannot evaluate and thus is totally boring and purely speculative to them

*the centerpiece of your argument both does not exist, and your misrepresentation of whatever I did say cannot be addressed*

Your entire fucking argument is a mean-spirited farce based on the premise that me being unfunny is scum indicative based on something you *misremember me saying off site, or in an ongoing game*.

If you were town you would have conceded the point ages ago
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Post Post #1112 (isolation #114) » Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:09 pm

Post by DVa »

Elsa's arguments here have me thinking about some strategic questions.

First, how we use the dayphase optimally, i.e. how much time we should reserve for the duel phase. Since so much of the town is resistant or lazy with the hurt tags, we could conceivably go off a plurality hurt rather than a majority hurt for resolving duels.

Unfortunately, this would still be off-protocol, but Elsa and Lady both have at least some hurts. I personally am not strongly opposed to an Elsa/LLD gladiation.

Still, my primary concern is that once the gladiation begins, we will stop having significant read developments from many players. I can't guarantee that we'll get *stellar* material beforehand, but I personally would prefer something more like 5-day pre-gladiate, 3-day gladiate.

So, Elsa, what do you think about adding 24 hours to your gladiate clock so we have 5-day pre-gladiate, 3-day gladiate?

Town, what do you think of having a plurality-gladiation at the end of the first 5 days of the day cycle if a majority is not achieved?

Ideally, we will not actually have a plurality gladiation, but knowing that the 5-day deadline will actually be acted on might help encourage people to be more forthcoming with reads and hurt tags.
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Post Post #1113 (isolation #115) » Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:10 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 1112, DVa wrote:for resolving duels.
i.e. for resolving who is gladiated in the pre-duel phase
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Post Post #1115 (isolation #116) » Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:14 pm

Post by DVa »

Because I think the pre-gladiation phase will be more interesting for almost everyone tbh

I would almost go 6-day pre-gladiate, 2-day gladiation except I think that's risky in case the 2-day falls on a weekend and people are v/la or whatever
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Post Post #1122 (isolation #117) » Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:42 pm

Post by DVa »

Ok 12 hours is fine then.

I support these:

HURT: Auro
LLD
Ariane


Curious if anyone else had a negative reaction to ?
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Post Post #1151 (isolation #118) » Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:11 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 918, MariaR wrote:Dva LLD sword
is the implication here that in LLD vs Elsa you'd side with Elsa?
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Post Post #1161 (isolation #119) » Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:21 pm

Post by DVa »

Like, I kinda don't get the people complaining that scum would kill the scummy person claiming the sword

that would keep the sword unclaimed

which is what we want, because then the next night we could force them to kill another scummy player

what part of this is bad--we still *eventually* can get an IC through the sword, it doesn't have to be n1. If we want we can have literally everyone claim the sword on like n3 if scum killed our preferred target n1.

which is precisely why scum would not kill our preferred target n1, they actually want the claim to resolve I think

but I've also just kinda accepted that I'm not getting my way on this so idgaf, don't even know why people are still going on, if Varsoon is going to be a child about it then that's on him
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Post Post #1162 (isolation #120) » Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:22 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 1159, Something_Smart wrote:If you try to use tells "just from this game" on them, you'll fail to get anything useful the vast majority of the time.
not sure this is scummy but this is pretty weak reasoning regardless of alignment SS
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Post Post #1178 (isolation #121) » Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:52 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 1166, Kokichi Oma wrote:who would be mad if i went for the sword tonight
if you got it would you try to use it the next night?
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Post Post #1231 (isolation #122) » Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:51 pm

Post by DVa »

Wait why Maria?
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Post Post #1236 (isolation #123) » Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:52 pm

Post by DVa »

Elsa are you back to people calling you Jay ?
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Post Post #1250 (isolation #124) » Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:58 pm

Post by DVa »

LLD is at L-6

Maria is at L-8

Please do reminders if anyone is brought to L2+
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Post Post #1257 (isolation #125) » Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:01 pm

Post by DVa »

VOTE: LLD - L-5

Maria joins pool of claimants tonight I guess
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Post Post #1275 (isolation #126) » Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:11 pm

Post by DVa »

For some reason I forgot there were guns in Full Metal Alchemist
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Post Post #1282 (isolation #127) » Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:14 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 1274, MariaR wrote:Oh boy am I gonna have to fight this obv as hell fake ate. It's like LLD is sitting behind her comp going. "what best fits here to get people to vote with me given I have no good arguments to use vs maria"
pedit: But I don't have an album of gifs for Riza yet
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Post Post #1284 (isolation #128) » Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:14 pm

Post by DVa »

LLD who is your gif stand-in?
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Post Post #1292 (isolation #129) » Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:18 pm

Post by DVa »

Your avi is a red bird so closest I can think of is like a red bird pokemon but having a hard time finding good gifs for them

maybe moltres?
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Post Post #1303 (isolation #130) » Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:23 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 1270, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:You're lucky my morals don't let me game throw, because it's posts like this that make me want to just vote for myself and refuse to give any reads or even try for town.

So if you're scum good job on demoralizing me. If you're town, good job on potentially ruining any value this lynch has.
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still hard to find phoenix gifs that quite capture the tone here tho
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Post Post #1321 (isolation #131) » Wed Nov 28, 2018 6:39 pm

Post by DVa »

BTW Maria are you feeling better now? You were sick for a bit right?
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Post Post #1336 (isolation #132) » Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:11 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 1335, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:
In post 1212, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:
Gladiate MariaR
Why have people been making HURT tags, if they’re just going to be ignored? Didn’t you say we should kill EJ for doing this? :facepalm:
I mean, I do think it's more informative to see which reads the gladiators choose to ignore. And I think town is still better off in future dayphases by seeing how reads developed clearly today
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Post Post #1338 (isolation #133) » Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:29 pm

Post by DVa »

Nancy has post 1337 so she gets to be townread tomorrow

winky face
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Post Post #1353 (isolation #134) » Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:10 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 1347, Gamma Emerald wrote:Alright you wanna play hardball we’ll play hardball. I posted that I realized I was wrong, but you decided to discredit me by attacking my working towards catching up. I’m gladiating you tomorrow.
mmm spicy

Where were you hiding this Gamma during Witches Ball?
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Post Post #1357 (isolation #135) » Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:12 pm

Post by DVa »

You don't think Dunn would bus d1?
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Post Post #1385 (isolation #136) » Thu Nov 29, 2018 6:20 am

Post by DVa »

That would still be my preference but I gave up trying to convince Varsoon and UT ages ago
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Post Post #1425 (isolation #137) » Thu Nov 29, 2018 3:40 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 1418, MariaR wrote:I think LLD picked me in the hope people would....not fear but paranoia lynch me because "oh my god maria is a great scumplayer"
but we don't have to worry about that, either you get the sword or scum nightkill you

if people can... follow the plan... 0.o o.0 0.o o.0

(this is the sound of me not holding my breath)

mostly though I kinda townread you here and I want to be right on you for the first time since BoR
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Post Post #1432 (isolation #138) » Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:08 pm

Post by DVa »

the plan is maria try get sword
>if she town, and she get sword, IC maria
>if she town, and she get killed, LLD's top fos dead, we get to use sword tomorrow and we know for tomorrow's gladiation that today was {LLDvT} -- we still have plenny time to have someone claim sword for ic status before anything resembling lylo
>if she scum, she no get sword, scum maria gets lunched

these are different possibilities but none of them are bad possibilities imo
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Post Post #1435 (isolation #139) » Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:15 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 1433, Firebringer wrote:VOTE: LLD
psa: this was the hammer
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Post Post #1438 (isolation #140) » Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:18 pm

Post by DVa »

don't quote yourself it's gross
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Post Post #1440 (isolation #141) » Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:25 pm

Post by DVa »

so then we get a confirmed town tomorrow night instead why is this so hard to understand

scum killing scumread n1 > scumread getting sword n1 and suiciding n2

the scum want town to get the sword so they don't have to worry about being asked to claim it
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Post Post #1442 (isolation #142) » Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:27 pm

Post by DVa »

like if scum just kill our scumreads every day this just turns into double day

that's not a bad scenario, it basically means we *turn the scum into our arthur vig kill*

we don't even need arthur if scum just start killing scumread players going for the sword lol
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Post Post #1452 (isolation #143) » Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:42 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 1448, Varsoon wrote:The whole point is to get a BP IC into the game
no, the point is to get a BP IC *at the point where it will maximize town information and win chances*

that does not have to be n1

we WILL get a BP IC, there is no question
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Post Post #1456 (isolation #144) » Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:55 pm

Post by DVa »

But the sword is an at-will IC, it doesn't go away if it is not resolved N1. The smaller the pool of players, the more useful the IC functionality becomes. Scum do not kill the claimant because they want the IC status resolved sooner rather than later

It is not a matter of "infinitely better" -- we get the IC. The question is, is having an extra IC better on D2, or turning the scum kill into a vig kill n2 + an IC better on d3?

Each night the sword is not resolved, if scum do not want it resolved, they turn their nightkill into our vig kill.

The player in question is resolved either way whether they claim the sword or not. If a scumread player is not claiming the sword, then scum kill a townread player.

We're going in circles now though and I still have no control over you choosing the sword or not, only my annoyance if a readable town player chooses to IC themselves despite the plan.

And for the record, I honestly don't give a fuck if U/T grabs the sword and shoots n2, so if you really insist on there being at least two claimants, I'd rather it be someone that has committed to shooting with it. I'm not strongly opposed to Maria+U/T, but I *do* think *only maria* is mechanically better by a significant margin.
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Post Post #1480 (isolation #145) » Sat Dec 01, 2018 7:28 pm

Post by DVa »

Hypo might be okay so long as no one tries to use it to determine lynches or discuss it at all after it's complete

The obvious risk is that on average scum eliminates 4 possible merlins bringing their potential real merlin pool to 7, making their average rate of hitting merlin tonight 1/7.

with no hypo they have 1/11 chance of hitting merlin

number goes dramatically up when they look for movement on reads; i.e. flipping a read on a hypoclaimed target effectively tells scum it's fake, which means people would need to be pretty settled on a top townread

longer game goes their likelihood of hitting merlin goes up as more potential pairings are eliminated. But since merlin claims if arthur is at risk of being gladiated... meh

I think the damage discussing mechanics more could do to dayphase time is probably higher than the increased risk of scum hitting merlin

So I'd say we can do hypo today but let's give everyone time to settle on a top townread first if that's okay, that way hopefully there will be less movement later on.
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Post Post #1502 (isolation #146) » Sun Dec 02, 2018 9:47 am

Post by DVa »

Dunn is Arthur
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Post Post #1507 (isolation #147) » Sun Dec 02, 2018 11:46 am

Post by DVa »

Elsa Jay is Mei
Dunnstal is Reinhardt
Gamma Emerald is Roadhog
Firebringer is Ana
Nancy is Tracer
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Post Post #1516 (isolation #148) » Sun Dec 02, 2018 3:02 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 1514, Elsa Jay wrote:They made an entire song about why you SHOULDN'T be Tracer.
can you link me?
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Post Post #1575 (isolation #149) » Sun Dec 02, 2018 7:13 pm

Post by DVa »

I mean, ultimately a gladiation will happen. LLD basically had the most hurt tags and she chose to go for someone that she knew she was unlikely to win against but who she heavily suspected. While it'd be nice if we could stick to the plan, I do think it's a bit less informative for town if the gladiation is too one-sided.

But I also can't make a top hurt player not gladiate their top scumread, I can simply give advise not to do it.
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Post Post #1606 (isolation #150) » Sun Dec 02, 2018 8:31 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 1605, MariaR wrote:Prob UT
can you expand on this some more?
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Post Post #1632 (isolation #151) » Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:55 pm

Post by DVa »

I want to hurt the slot but I wanted to see what Penguin would say on his own

but I kinda feel like he's just going to pop in, say something like "catching up" and then we won't hear from him for two more days

so I guess why not

HURT: Penguin
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Post Post #1645 (isolation #152) » Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:49 pm

Post by DVa »

Wonder why we can't get a replacement for frozen angel, wide open game under 100 pages

Like enough people seem plausibly town that I think there is likely scum in one of the mia slots

Mechanically since both penguin and fa slot probably did not take sword they are decent gladiate candidates that would not reveal much to scum

I know LAL is lazy reasoning and these arent evem lurkers theyre full mia but they would still be decent poes we dont want in endgame unless fa replacement really towns up

Mostly thinking out loud here, at least ariane had s single very slightly pingy post.

Auro vs penguin would perhaps be the most hilarious matchup I can think of

It's also throwing me a bit that cakez is so much more confident here than in witches but I dunno if that makes him scum
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Post Post #1651 (isolation #153) » Tue Dec 04, 2018 4:22 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 1649, PenguinPower wrote:Hey...I'm catching up. I'll be back in two days.
Post would have been better with a gif
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Post Post #1725 (isolation #154) » Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:58 pm

Post by DVa »

The problem here is that in a game with a 4 man scum team, there are 3 MIA slots: FA slot, VeridianCleric, and Penguin. Veridian seemed very slightly townie but not enough to solidify, Ariane seemed slightly scummy but I would have liked more, and FA slot was straight null. For all we know there's 2 scum in there, and statistically it's very likely there's at least one.

It also creates a problem wherein it is difficult to find associatives when a full 20% of the list is just basically not here.

The risk with gladiating a full MIA slot is that if they were Merlin we would have no way for them to claim.

I'd almost rather we get a replacement and then have the replacement gladiate Penguin, I just don't know how long that will take given the vacuum of replacements lately.
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Post Post #1727 (isolation #155) » Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:58 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 1724, Dunnstral wrote:HURT: Kokichi Oma
can you expand on this?
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Post Post #1731 (isolation #156) » Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:12 pm

Post by DVa »

I'd be ok with Koki vs. Penguin

Koki you wanna be a gladiator today?
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Post Post #1746 (isolation #157) » Wed Dec 05, 2018 6:54 pm

Post by DVa »

Was this peak Linkin Park?

Spoiler:
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Post Post #1758 (isolation #158) » Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:08 am

Post by DVa »

If you're serious I'm reasonably confident you just claim your arthur since otherwise you get nightkilled tonight and we lose the extra IC
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Post Post #1797 (isolation #159) » Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:53 am

Post by DVa »

Now would be a good time to confirm that you did not in fact grab the sword last night Maria
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Post Post #1800 (isolation #160) » Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:54 am

Post by DVa »

In post 1785, MariaR wrote:[SirCakez Gamma Emerald]
[Kokichi Oma Varsoon Elsa Jay]
[PenguinPower]
[Frozen Angel VeridianCleric]
[Auro Firebringer Nancy Drew 39]
[Dva Untrod Tripod]
Pedit: That's not the point. People are waiting for a gladiate period no matter if I made a case on every person in this game it wouldn't help because no one is doing shit.
Few questions here:

Do you disbelieve Koki? Confused why you'd put him at tier 2

Why is PP above FA/Veridian?

Why is Cakez a top townread? Why is Elsa?

Also, why is Nancy a leanscum?
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Post Post #1801 (isolation #161) » Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:56 am

Post by DVa »

In post 1799, MariaR wrote:Shouldn't we see where people want to vote before we answer questions like that.
Sure I suppose

VOTE: Maria
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Post Post #1803 (isolation #162) » Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:59 am

Post by DVa »

In post 1802, MariaR wrote:2) PP is here and doing something compared to the nothing reads.
being annoyed at Dunn is "doing something"?
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Post Post #1806 (isolation #163) » Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:01 am

Post by DVa »

In post 1802, MariaR wrote:pedit: and why am I scum.
This is probably TvT again tbh, but a flip on you will help me sort Dunn and will remove wifom around LLD's accusations

Also I think no lynch is suboptimal given Koki's claim

So it's not that you're scum, it's that I'm not lynching Ana today
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Post Post #1808 (isolation #164) » Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:03 am

Post by DVa »

In post 1807, Kokichi Oma wrote:Maria isnt being lynched today
Why not?
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Post Post #1810 (isolation #165) » Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:05 am

Post by DVa »

No thanks
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Post Post #1844 (isolation #166) » Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:34 am

Post by DVa »

UNVOTE:

Still not lynching Ana

y'all have fun
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Post Post #1850 (isolation #167) » Thu Dec 06, 2018 8:46 am

Post by DVa »

VOTE: No Lynch
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Post Post #1855 (isolation #168) » Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:49 am

Post by DVa »

Image
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Post Post #1928 (isolation #169) » Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:33 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 1918, MariaR wrote:Because I'm shooting Dva tonight.
Can I just say that I take this as a really high compliment. Thank you so much for seeing this game as within my scum range :)

I hope you do shoot me because that would mean you're Arthur and I would have absolute confidence that you can roll scum this game!

I believe in you Maria! Shoot me tonight :)
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Post Post #1929 (isolation #170) » Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:35 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 1871, Dunnstral wrote:DVa pointing to a reads list I'm not even in in 1800 then saying to flip Maria to "sort me better" is off
First, Dunn-chan, you don't need Maria's reads list to know that you two have been having one of your little tiffs, so cute! :3

But beyond that, that was all just wifom for the scum since secretly I'm Merlin and I know you're Arthur!

winky face
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Post Post #1930 (isolation #171) » Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:37 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 1921, Nancy Drew 39 wrote:
In post 1852, Elsa Jay wrote:Unfortunately for Maria and whoever the fuck the real Merlin is, I'm actually the one who pulled the sword.

VOTE: Maria

Was hoping you could somehow survive 2 gladiates in a row, gal. A lie is a lie, though, and you gotta perish for it.
I believe you.

VOTE: Maria

Maria’s swordclaim makes 0 sense with her EOD 1 posts.
This might be an odd question but why? I don't know why but for some reason tonally I have a really hard time taking Elsa seriously here. Like I don't even know if it makes Jay scum, but I kinda just don't know, given the context and the rampant fakeclaiming going on right now, that Elsa is even seriously counter-claiming or would, by necessity, be scum on a town Maria flip.

Then again, this game has gotten very silly so maybe we do at some point need to start saying 'if you claim something town will be forced to take it serious'?
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Post Post #1934 (isolation #172) » Thu Dec 06, 2018 2:55 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 1933, Dunnstral wrote:So me pushing Maria = I'm scum if Maria is town?
No, it was more if Maria was scum I would be more confident that you're town, which I already know since you're Arthur :)

It was a wifomy post, you're right
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Post Post #1969 (isolation #173) » Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:27 pm

Post by DVa »

I mean, I was thinking you were just fucking around Jay. It's still really hard to take you seriously here for some reason. But you are 'for real' claiming that you have the sword? If so, why did you decide to claim it last night? Walk us through your thought process on that front
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Post Post #1971 (isolation #174) » Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:44 pm

Post by DVa »

Who did you think would be a megalomaniacal dictator?
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Post Post #1973 (isolation #175) » Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:46 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 1854, Elsa Jay wrote:Jeez, that's very harsh for attempting to play the game our way.
also what did you mean by this then? I think this was one of the reasons I was having a hard time taking you seriously here, it seems like you're complaining for being blacklisted for fakeclaiming in a way and I'm not sure what it means if it's not that
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Post Post #1977 (isolation #176) » Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:02 pm

Post by DVa »

I more meant what did you mean by "our way"? What does it mean to "play the game our way"? Because when I read that I took that as "play the game by fakeclaiming"? Like that just doesn't sound like what you write when you're ccing someone and they're now confirmed scum to you. It sounds like you're kinda fucking with her and pissed that she's not cool with it
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Post Post #1979 (isolation #177) » Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:07 pm

Post by DVa »

So --- real talk --- you are *really* claiming you have the sword and you understand that if Maria flips town here you are getting dunked tomorrow?

Like if you're town fakeclaiming just cause you feel like getting Maria lynched I would agree with Maria that's a really shitty thing to do here because I really don't see how you don't get lynched tomorrow in that scenario
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Post Post #1980 (isolation #178) » Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:07 pm

Post by DVa »

Like Maria claiming to have the sword as scum when she doesn't have the sword just does not really sound like a thing that happens so I'm having a really hard time buying this CC ngl
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Post Post #1983 (isolation #179) » Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:15 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 1981, Auro wrote:Why not? Fishing for the sword holder?
Because that is something that opens Maria up to a hard CC. Basically that would require her to assume she was losing the gladiate, which only happens if she really bought NN15's claim that Fire was Arthur. So unless Maria really thought she was going down, I don't think she puts herself in that position, she's quite capable as scum and would probably try to wiggle out of it.
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Post Post #1989 (isolation #180) » Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:57 pm

Post by DVa »

So you want to lynch Ana for the shitty gladiate then? I know Fire does some wacky shit as scum but this is like ridiculous even for him
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Post Post #1991 (isolation #181) » Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:12 pm

Post by DVa »

I mean you did suicide in our last game together as scum, I think that qualifies as "wacky shit" :P

and tbh your gladiate here was pretty bad, I mean there was a non zero chance that Maria had the sword, I think today would have been much better with something like a NN15 gladiate tbh
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Post Post #1998 (isolation #182) » Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:18 pm

Post by DVa »

I mean I kinda think Fire as scum would recognize it's a real possibility? He's silly, he's not actually bad at the game. Like, when he suicided in witches ball it had a motivation (his pairing was going down anyway probably), whereas here... he was basically committing suicide for no reason (if you think he thought it was likely maria had the sword)

Maybe I just give Fire more credit for his scumgame... idk. Fire is not bad at this game. He is funny, he makes unusual plays, but this seems more likely to come from his towngame imo
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Post Post #1999 (isolation #183) » Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:19 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 1995, Firebringer wrote:ive done way more wacky shit than this.
well my experience with you is not infinite :P

fire if you're town how do you not get mislynched here?
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Post Post #2010 (isolation #184) » Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:26 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 2006, Firebringer wrote:also Dva i kind of feel this defense of me is weird.
and makes me think ur trying to save me from a mislynch, but don't bother.
if ur scum just join in on it.

no one will blame u for it.
I mean I like you and I also think you're town here and this game was already kinda dragging so if we're forced to mislynch you my desire to complete this game is going to tank a bit
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Post Post #2018 (isolation #185) » Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:36 pm

Post by DVa »

Yeah Dunn's gambit would have been a lot better if there was anyone else in this town who said they could actually consistently read Maria

like Dunn's case was garbage *except that it was Dunn saying it*

also there was nothing else going on and I was basically defaulting to LAL from a paucity of scumreads

so like it's really easy for me to see Fire's play here coming from bored, misguided town, and it's way easier for me to see that than opportunistic scum

this is one of those games where scum isn't saying jack shit and town is just eating itself apart because they're the ones who happen to be posting
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Post Post #2030 (isolation #186) » Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:57 pm

Post by DVa »

In post 2029, Firebringer wrote:Dva do you play sc2?
Not melee, but I play in the arcade on occasion
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Post Post #2158 (isolation #187) » Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:05 am

Post by DVa »

VOTE: Maria
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Post Post #2162 (isolation #188) » Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:10 am

Post by DVa »

If we lynch Maria the sword can be claimed tonight, so if we accept that Fire is a mislynch, and Maria is not Arthur and plans to suicide anyway, then the mechnically superior option is to lynch her and let someone else claim the sword tonight. If town refuses to no lynch, and Fire is town, we should lynch Maria. Otherwise all we're doing is wasting a cycle with the sword.
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Post Post #2167 (isolation #189) » Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:13 am

Post by DVa »

OK, so Maria doesn't have the sword but fakeclaimed having the sword to avoid getting lynched or to force a counter-claim, in which case she should be lynched.
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Post Post #2171 (isolation #190) » Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:14 am

Post by DVa »

In post 2165, Dunnstral wrote:Also advocating to lynch the person with the sword is not a good plan
I was saying to no lynch but if town is going to disagree, then I will push the best lynch option, which is Maria.
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Post Post #2175 (isolation #191) » Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:16 am

Post by DVa »

In post 2169, Dunnstral wrote:I feel like I kind of forced her into continuing the fake claim when I claimed she had the sword
Would you prefer to be lynched before or after Kokichi?
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Post Post #2179 (isolation #192) » Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:17 am

Post by DVa »

"Fire is bad" -- Maria

"Also I fakedclaimed and got Dunn to fakeclaim on my behalf thus outing the entire power structure of the town" -- also Maria
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Post Post #2183 (isolation #193) » Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:18 am

Post by DVa »

Maria is either scum or gamethrowing.

I think she should be WotC'd next game personally.
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Post Post #2194 (isolation #194) » Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:23 am

Post by DVa »

In post 2193, Gamma Emerald wrote:No one has seriously claimed that Fire was anything important so I’m doing this because no one thinks critically here
vs. Maria who suddenly everyone wants to fakeclaim to protect?

Do you think Fire is scum or are you just compromising on a 'safe mislynch'?
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Post Post #2198 (isolation #195) » Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:26 am

Post by DVa »

In post 2197, Gamma Emerald wrote:I was voting no lynch but no one wants the ACTUALLY safer option so I’m taking to damage control option
Damage control is lynching Maria

Lynch Fire + Maria suicides = 2 dead town, sword unusable another day

Lynch maria = 1 dead town, sword claimed tonight, we get another inno tomorrow and can actually confirm the merlin claim
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Post Post #2202 (isolation #196) » Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:27 am

Post by DVa »

In post 2200, MariaR wrote:I'm not retracting that I have the sword so I don't know where Dva got the whole 'I fake claimed' part.
Dunn was saying you don't have the sword, so I was addressing that load of BS
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Post Post #2205 (isolation #197) » Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:28 am

Post by DVa »

In post 2203, Dunnstral wrote:Once again, Maria doesn't have the sword

Is she fake claiming or does she have the sword, actually? You're arguing both points
She's saying she has it and you're saying she doesn't, and I am saying she should be lynched in either scenario
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Post Post #2206 (isolation #198) » Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:28 am

Post by DVa »

In post 2204, Dunnstral wrote:DVa you just said people were fake claiming to protect her
Which is objectively true
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Post Post #2208 (isolation #199) » Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:30 am

Post by DVa »

Kokichi is getting lynched tomorrow, and then Dunn maybe the day after that, but today we're lynching Maria
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