Open 738: Purgatory | LA FIN

[the worst]

wrt "townread but not sending to heaven" we only have one scum left in the game. their entire agenda is to either get sent to heaven, or get through to judgement day against someone who they will not be lynched over

so either decide now if you want me, an obvious townie in heaven, or whether you want me alive in Judgement day so the townies in heaven don't even need to think about the lynch

hint: me in heaven is better :p

[the worst]

sorry but that logic more or less expires when there's only one scum left

[the worst]

So first thought is eragon's ISO is nearly as padded with fluff as it was in WW, and I feel like that's really obvious. Second thought is, where does his scumread on me come from?

Starting at the end of D2 for speed:
1410 - "I wish Irrelphant had double the posts for us to chew on." - Keyser
"hard agree with irrel"

1494 - "do you not think irrel is scum?"

1533 wherein he says "undereager to solve? No, I read Creature right! and also, I have more activity than you" (the second of which is objectively true but certainly not indicative of my alignment, given I was v/la until right before that post)

1550
-"on top of not liking their posts this game" (no clue what this is a reference to, except 1533)
-"they do not have the same form of transparant towni-ness that they were fond of in WW.
Like, did anyone ever even scumread them in WW?
they were extremly obvious through thoughts, reads, wagons, etc... and even from a scum perspective i knew that was always going to be town" (lol this is "I knew he was town as scum last game, and I don't think he's town this game!" which is honestly just silly, but more importantly, what is really being said here? This whole thing amounts to "I scumread him because I scumread him". Also yes, I played better in WW than here, which I readily admit, but I'm usually scumread more as town than as scum. Most of the time I'm lynchbait as town, actually, which Shoshin will vouch for)

1632 he just kind of says "no" to all of my points responding to 1550

eh we cant really take the risk of having someone flip town today.

VOTE: Irrelephant


i think we need to solve TW/kesyer, but voting them today
if we lynch the scum, then its GG for us
if we lynch the town, then is basically GG for scum.

tl;dr its a lot riskier

no real reason here

1689 - "hot take: 3 of the doc J voters were scum", meh this is a reason I guess

I admit there's more here than I remembered, but it mostly amounts to "this is not as strong of play as in WW, and you're not really around"
I also still think eragon offering to vote creature D1 while later insisting his correct townread on creature is a read to townread him is scummy, as was the way he pushed Dr J's Heaven lynch lightly throughout without ever committing to getting on wagon

Ausuka

I haven't checked how distanced/aligned they feel, but vca says she's the most likely partner, unless Doc J was the only scum on the D2 wagon or something

idk maybe ausuka can be town, my read there was mostly based on vca. fmpov one of volxen/ausuka has to be scum I think? but this can just be something useful post-my-flip

g2g, lynch eragon next hell phase if not this one

@Era do you see why I'm nervous about you?

[Eragon]

no actually i dont?

[the worst]

do you think Irrelephant unironically thought he could successfully get you wagoned?

[Eragon]

VOTE: The Worst

fine, ill let you have it your way



all i ask is bragging rights if you somehow actually flip scum(i doubt it so im not worried-well okay i am worried- but you know what i mean. im confident enough to vote you to heaven, but im getting a lingering feeling in my tummy)

[Eragon]

do you think Irrelephant unironically thought he could successfully get you wagoned?

i believe he was trying to self-pres

and one sec

[Eragon]

I'd rather let Era respond to Rel's case b

ut I can be persuaded to flashwagon era

as a worst case scenario

Rel lynch is the best currently I'll just feel garbo if he greens

proves there was some motivation there

do you think im wrong?

[the worst]

yeah gimme a sec

[the worst]

I mean let's start at [being on both mislynch wagons], which I know is a reason people are scumreading me but I have the advantage of knowing I'm town

pedit: I said before and I'll say it again, scum!me would be having way more fun this game. I don't have much WIM right now tbh, I mostly just feel obligated to share my reads in full before deadline because there won't be a twilight

pedit: I actually have to go afk for the last time before deadline in 5 minutes but reading that now

Irrelephant's case on you was exceptionally wolfy and he was not pushing for your lynch (re-read and tell me if you disagree; it was about 80 levels lower than his usual scumhunting ability which is hard to tell from a bad wolfy post or scum theatre unfortunately. but realistically he was never swinging that lynch before EoD and I think he knew that)

none of his reasons for wolfreading Ausuka are actually wolf indicative either tbf so I guess I can reconsider that heavy read

idk maybe ausuka can be town, my read there was mostly based on vca. fmpov one of volxen/ausuka has to be scum I think? but this can just be something useful post-my-flip

g2g, lynch eragon next hell phase if not this one

he badcases you then leaves for EoD saying to flip you next hell phase. at this point he probably knows like 80% of the time he's eating the lynch and flipping red; this doesn't get town!you mislynched

what would keyser söze do

signalling I was still there and not flashwagoning

you're fine Labby. be safe. <3

ditto

im gay haha

lmao relatable

[the worst]

he's either turned on you at EoD because at a level 2 wolf level he needs to rapidly distance from his buddy, or at a level 3 level he wants to create WIFOM via a last minute false associative with a towny

I'm pretty sure this game gets a lot easier by removing that WIFOM before judgement day, I'm sorry if you're town

[the worst]

but liek, it was never a wolf 1 ploy to get you lynched in his stead. there wasn't enough time and he didn't really seem to fall for my offer to flashwagon you.

[the worst]

but liek, it was never a wolf 1 ploy to get you lynched in his stead. there wasn't enough time and he didn't really seem to fall for my offer to flashwagon you.

actually maybe he did
I have no idea how to read scumrelephant's mind and I'm circular logicking myself into oblivion

[the worst]

Heaven: meeee
Hell: volxen
Heaven: Keyser
Hell: Eragon

that should end the game and if it doesn't it's sudden death between Labby-slot/Ausuka which I think the lovely Keyser and I can solve on judgement day

I think this probably never comes to that tho

just to hop back here I'm gonna keep thinking on this plan but we basically wanna nuke WIFOM slots that are gonna be a trainwreck to solve in F2

we want to heaven obvtown slots at this point, just avoid any slot with scum equity.

if we can reach a duo that can be organically read by the martyrs we'll be in a way better situation than random lynching for a 50% chance of winning because we can't engage with those slots anymore

[the worst]

starting to think it's better to leave volxen for judgement as well tbh, I think rel's early play on him is somewhat pocket indicative and his float towards the gravity of Keyser's case on me d2 probably still comes from town as well as scum

I trust my townread on him quite a lot less but that doesn't mean he's a wolf just means I need to effort this more

This is making me trust ausuka more

[Keyser Söze]

I agree that we shouldn’t be self-voting/wagoning here.

It simply gives me Dr J vibes. I rather the whys and how’s be presented by each player.

[the worst]

the worst

- duh

Keyser Söze

- reads heavily unaligned with both flipped scum. the more i'm thinking about it: if irrelephant planned to look like he was pocketing him d1 and then he decided to openwolf like an absolute scumlord to blast his partner into heaven d2 then he basically deserves the game, the rapid transitions in the quality and integrity of his scumplay would be absolutely masterful and i'm not sure my paranoia actually extends this far :/ he's probably just town like 90% of the time here.

Ausuka

- i think there's a worst case scenario where ausuka is a wolf but it's a worst case scenario. it probably relies on irrelephant doing nothing to position his partner as town; relying on me to do it for him; missing my case on her and attempting to position her as scum very close to his own lynch before flying off and trying to hardcase her perceived scumbuddy instead. actually this is less bizarrely unlikely than i originally thought and i'm gonna re-sort this readslist after i'm done with this sorting of it

LabRat01

- every time i ISO dive labby i come back to town. like i said yday her worst position on my read list has been wolf via POE and i think per the last few days' posting + rep-out her internal struggle between trying to solve this game and telling us all to gtfo is probably coming from a feeling of being crippled by the POE gamestate more than being correctly POE'd wolf.

Eragon

- asdfghjkl;' same as labby i keep feeling bad every time i scumread eragon in a vacuum but irrelephant's antispew makes me want this slot flipped before judgement day

volxen

- needs to come play more and i need to re-evaluate this
i think some d1/d2 stuff is probably still highly town indicative i guess

ok flip labby and ausuka in this list

[the worst]

I agree that we shouldn’t be self-voting/wagoning here.

It simply gives me Dr J vibes. I rather the whys and how’s be presented by each player.

it probably shouldn't give you Dr. J vibes man
we're at the boiling point and we can't afford to resort to lazy plays the way we did on d2. we need bold plays and bold wagons (just shouldn't L-1 anyone unless they're selfvoting, which I was hoping you'd identify with my opening play here >:c)

we also need to spook the shit out of slots we feel are scum

wrt eragon:-
1. thoughts on irrelephant's eod push on him? which was incredibly obviously wolfy
2. thoughts on eragon's immediate surrender to pressure + vote on me today?

incidentally i also wonder why he stopped posting when i raised the possibility of him being s/s with rel but eh, that's not a conversation point so much as a curiosity

[the worst]

we're at the boiling point

on this as well: nobody outside of you and I should be lynched for heaven today.
i love taking risks as much as the next person, but Hell phases are for risk-taking at this point.

[volxen]

VOTE: Keyser Soze

[the worst]

VOTE: Keyser Söze

what's on your mind volxy

[volxen]

VOTE: Keyser Söze

what's on your mind volxy

I'm disappointed you think I'm scum now, but admittedly I haven't been as active as I should be lately. I'll try to post more tomorrow, but I still think Keyser is town, and I guess I'm no longer strong town to you, so I'm voting for Keyser.

[the worst]

That's OK, net of all things I'm kinda predisposed towards townreading you here (that's a problem in itself which I think you can probably appreciate zzzz) it's just there's a lot of spice following the fact we nailed and lynched Irrelephant who is Good Scum

does you not being heavy town to me impact your read on my alignment? => why/why not?

[volxen]

That's OK, net of all things I'm kinda predisposed towards townreading you here (that's a problem in itself which I think you can probably appreciate zzzz) it's just there's a lot of spice following the fact we nailed and lynched Irrelephant who is Good Scum

does you not being heavy town to me impact your read on my alignment? => why/why not?

@TW, in this post I pointed out how both you and Irrelephant give me an "easy" townread after I made my first five posts in the game. Irrelephant gave me the townread before you did:

Interesting thing here I noticed. Here are the first five posts I made in the game:

Post #1: 307:

Did you know?

Lions and tigers can crossbreed to create a species known as Ligers..

Votecount 1.03

the worst (3) - LabRat01, Keyser Soze, Irrelephant

Keyser Söze (2) - Lefty, Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde
Carmen (1) - LabRat01,
Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde (1) - Carmen
LabRat01 (1) - the worst
Not Voting - Creature, volxen,

Time till end of hell phase 1: (expired on 2018-11-15 17:00:00)

I'm pretty sure there is at least one scum among [TW, Rat, Keyser, and Rel]. I don't think it's that likely that TW, as town, would get up to L-2 so quickly on the second day of day one with no scum involvement.

I don't think TW and Rat are scum together, with them cross voting each other, and with TW's detailed casing of Rat. It seems really unnecessary for them to try to mutually distance themselves and start wagons against each other this early on day one if they are scumbuddies.

I do wish TW would case Keyser to the same degree that he has cased Rat, but he seems to want to hold back on this for some reason.

Out of [TW, Rat], Rat definitely has far more scum equity in my opinion. TW's casing of Rat felt genuine, whereas Rat's interactions with others came off as scummy to me. For example:

wanna check it for me?

Nah, it's not there.

VOTE: Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde

aww, that's a shame VOTE: carmen
I'm p sure some form of it should be there though, cuz the bracket thingy is written in my RC
wanna check it again? or are you lying in order for someone to notice this "contradiction" and derp you as town?

ugh, I was talking about the town RC if it wasn't obvious

I was re-reading the thread and noticed that my post could be understood as a disgusting joke
that vote was half-serious, it was not pure RvS, so read it as so

and c'mon, someone write sth
it's boring being here alone

I don't think Rat really had a good reason for "seriously" voting Carmen here, and she did say that the vote was "half-serious".

how do you read Key's entrance to the thread btw? I wanna try and sort him as quickly as possible so I can comfortably resume quoting The Usual Suspects and burninating scum.

Was the “I wanna try to sort Key as quick as possible” supposed to be an excuse for asking Left to post reads?

No?
but it def feels that way

OR it feels like your question to Lefty was just an excuse to show off your great town motivations.

Which one do you pick?

I don’t like the previous post either (the one I joked about). It’s prob not directly scum motivated, but it feels a really safe and non-personal way of questioning someone.

Why did Rat make such a big deal about this? All TW did was ask Lefty what he thought of Keyser's entrance -- I don't see how that's really LAMIST, which is what Rat seems to be implying here. Yes everyone should be sorting players and coming up with their own reads, but there is nothing wrong with asking player X what they think about player Y, as long as you are still sorting everyone else in addition to that. Rat seems to be suggesting that TW want's other people to sort Keyser for him so he doesn't have to do the work of sorting Keyser himself, which I don't think is accurate at all. She is also suggesting here that TW's motivation in asking the question was to appear LAMIST, as opposed to him actually wanting to know what Lefty thought of Keyser's entrance.

What’s your take on Soze so far? Is the ‘I thought it was just two goons’ and then the break down of DrJ/Rat following that line of thought something you think they’d do/are capable of as scum?

You know, sth like that could prob be faked by a 5-year old.
Possibly younger

It kinda feels like you didn't want to appear useless so decided to write

anything

that might appear helpful without actually considering if it makes sense to ask about that.

Do not do it like that. If you want to do sth, you can comment on the stuff:
-I wrote about duck,
-keyser wrote about me&DrJ,
-DrJ wrote about me/keiser
-or w/e.
Just pick a wagon and go with it, there’s no need to be wary here

Again, here Rat is criticizing someone for asking a question regarding Keyser. I don't think her criticism of Lefty was really warranted here -- he asks a question about Keyser, and she insinuates that his reason for asking the question was to appear like he was doing something, as opposed to it being a question he genuinely wanted answered. In other words, she is again suggesting that the motivation behind the question was to purposefully appear LAMIST, as opposed to it just being a question that Lefty wanted answered. It's just odd that on two different occasions, two different people ask a question about Keyser, and Rat attacks (unreasonably IMO) both TW and Lefty for asking their respective questions about Keyser. I would think town!Rat would understand that this game isn't just about everyone forming their own reads in isolation and then presenting their readslist to the rest of the group, but it's largely a game that involves interacting with everyone else to understand their motivations, which includes asking players questions such as, "what did you think about X from player Y?" The fact that Rat's initial reaction to both questions about Keyser was to immediately label them as attempts to be LAMIST rather than as genuine questions that were asked to gather information to help gamesolve, seems much more likely to come from scum than town.

VOTE: LabRat01

Post #2: 344

actually
VOTE: Creature

lynch this today for 11/10 guaranteed scumflip
send Dr. J to heaven tomorrow

if Lab/Keyser are town they can prove it

Why do you think Creature is scum, and why is he a better lynch than Rat?

Post #3: 349

@volxen putting associations, VCA and scum partner theories aside, are you t/reading the worst independently?

I don't feel comfortable giving TW a townread yet, no. I do think he made a good case against Rat, especially in post 297, and I do find Rat to have the most scum equity at the moment, but I'm not ready to write off TW as town yet either.

Where I am currently at is I find Dr. J to be the most towny player and Rat to be the most scummy player. I'm still kind of unsure on everyone else.

@Keyser, I am starting to get concerned that if Rat is scum, you could be one of her partners. As I pointed out earlier, it was just odd how quick she was to attack two different people for asking, in my opinion, completely legitimate questions about your slot. If she is scum it's possible that she is simply buddying/defending town!Keyser, but the way she wanted to shut down both questions about Keyser's slot could be indicative of SvS interactions. Keyser, if Rat is scum, why is TW more likely to be one of her partners than you?

But in any case, do you really think TW would gambit as scum and try to get his one of his scumbuddies sent to hell on day one? I would consider that quite a risky gambit because if he does that, then the only way he could win as scum is if both he and his remaining scumbuddy get sent to Heaven. So unless he's convinced that both he and his other scumbuddy could get a lot of towncredit for busing Rat, it seems like quite a risky play to open on day one by busing one of his partners in a game mode that, in my opinion, heavily discourages busing.

Post #4: 351

You think scum-labrat is chainsaw defending scum-me on PAGE ONE against TWO PLAYERS?

I don't think it's too far-fetched that scum!Rat would chainsaw defend one of her scumbuddies against two players. And her two posts where she attacked both TW and Lefty for asking a question about your slot were on pages three and four, not on page one:

how do you read Key's entrance to the thread btw? I wanna try and sort him as quickly as possible so I can comfortably resume quoting The Usual Suspects and burninating scum.

Was the “I wanna try to sort Key as quick as possible” supposed to be an excuse for asking Left to post reads?

No?
but it def feels that way
OR it feels like your question to Lefty was just an excuse to show off your great town motivations.
Which one do you pick?

I don’t like the previous post either (the one I joked about). It’s prob not directly scum motivated, but it feels a really safe and non-personal way of questioning someone.

This was at the bottom of page three.

What’s your take on Soze so far? Is the ‘I thought it was just two goons’ and then the break down of DrJ/Rat following that line of thought something you think they’d do/are capable of as scum?

You know, sth like that could prob be faked by a 5-year old.
Possibly younger

It kinda feels like you didn't want to appear useless so decided to write

anything

that might appear helpful without actually considering if it makes sense to ask about that.
Do not do it like that. If you want to do sth, you can comment on the stuff:
-I wrote about duck,
-keyser wrote about me&DrJ,
-DrJ wrote about me/keiser
-or w/e.
Just pick a wagon and go with it, there’s no need to be wary here

And this was as the top of page four.

And both posts were written within seven minutes of each other, which makes it even more odd.

Post #5: 371

Out of [TW, Rat], Rat definitely has far more scum equity in my opinion. TW's casing of Rat felt genuine, whereas Rat's interactions with others came off as scummy to me. For example:
[quote="In post 307, volxen]

wanna check it for me?

Nah, it's not there.

VOTE: Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde

aww, that's a shame VOTE: carmen
I'm p sure some form of it should be there though, cuz the bracket thingy is written in my RC
wanna check it again? or are you lying in order for someone to notice this "contradiction" and derp you as town?

ugh, I was talking about the town RC if it wasn't obvious

I was re-reading the thread and noticed that my post could be understood as a disgusting joke
that vote was half-serious, it was not pure RvS, so read it as so

and c'mon, someone write sth
it's boring being here alone

I don't think Rat really had a good reason for "seriously" voting Carmen here, and she did say that the vote was "half-serious".

First off, volx seems to have read the thread till duck’s posts, so he should have also been aware of the whole conversation between me and korina. I don’t feel like going all over it again and this argument is

exactly

the same one I’ve been arguing with Korina about.

If he does fully understand why I pushed Carmen, I find it off that he’d find it important enough to mention here.
and if he disagreed to my answers to Korina’s pushes, he should have quoted those posts, not this one.

Him not doing that and including the exact same reasoning kinda feels like he made the argument just “to make the read look more townie/impressive” and doesn’t actually care to think about it seriously

how do you read Key's entrance to the thread btw? I wanna try and sort him as quickly as possible so I can comfortably resume quoting The Usual Suspects and burninating scum.

Was the “I wanna try to sort Key as quick as possible” supposed to be an excuse for asking Left to post reads?

No?
but it def feels that way

OR it feels like your question to Lefty was just an excuse to show off your great town motivations.

Which one do you pick?

I don’t like the previous post either (the one I joked about). It’s prob not directly scum motivated, but it feels a really safe and non-personal way of questioning someone.

Why did Rat make such a big deal about this? All TW did was ask Lefty what he thought of Keyser's entrance -- I don't see how that's really LAMIST, which is what Rat seems to be implying here.
Yes everyone should be sorting players and coming up with their own reads, but there is nothing wrong with asking player X what they think about player Y, as long as you are still sorting everyone else in addition to that.
Rat seems to be suggesting that TW wants other people to sort Keyser for him so he doesn't have to do the work of sorting Keyser himself, which I don't think is accurate at all.
She is also suggesting here that TW's motivation in asking the question was to appear LAMIST, as opposed to him actually wanting to know what Lefty thought of Keyser's entrance.

This one is actually fair, except the “why did rat make such a big deal of this?” part.
This is nearly the same thing as in the last part of the quote, but it’s more visible in the quote there, so just read it there, but it feels kinda fake to me that a player who’s capable of writing an elaborate analysis like this one would base his reads on reasons that are just so obviously wrong.

And the way he defended TW was funny imo. Prob too daring to be SvS, but I don’t think I can say anything more about that

What’s your take on Soze so far? Is the ‘I thought it was just two goons’ and then the break down of DrJ/Rat following that line of thought something you think they’d do/are capable of as scum?

You know, sth like that could prob be faked by a 5-year old.
Possibly younger

It kinda feels like you didn't want to appear useless so decided to write

anything

that might appear helpful without actually considering if it makes sense to ask about that.

Do not do it like that. If you want to do sth, you can comment on the stuff:
-I wrote about duck,
-keyser wrote about me&DrJ,
-DrJ wrote about me/keiser
-or w/e.
Just pick a wagon and go with it, there’s no need to be wary here

Again, here Rat is criticizing someone for asking a question regarding Keyser. I don't think her criticism of Lefty was really warranted here -- he asks a question about Keyser, and she insinuates that his reason for asking the question was to appear like he was doing something, as opposed to it being a question he genuinely wanted answered. In other words, she is again suggesting that the motivation behind the question was to purposefully appear LAMIST, as opposed to it just being a question that Lefty wanted answered.
It's just odd that on two different occasions, two different people ask a question about Keyser, and Rat attacks (unreasonably IMO) both TW and Lefty for asking their respective questions about Keyser.

Yes, I think Lefty’s post was lamist. I don’t think it’s necessarily scum indicative though, because awkwardness and not knowing what to write early in the game is not really scummy. Both town and scum can feel that way and even though his question/post wasn’t sincere imo, both alignments could have had their reasons for doing it.
The read was kind of a push, but it was also a suggestion to do sth else, because even if they’re town, their motivation isn’t difficult to notice and it’s gonna get them lynched if they keep doing that for a long time.

I would think town!Rat would understand that this game isn't just about everyone forming their own reads in isolation and then presenting their readslist to the rest of the group, but it's largely a game that involves interacting with everyone else to understand their motivations, which includes asking players questions such as, "what did you think about X from player Y?" The fact that Rat's initial reaction to both questions about Keyser was to immediately label them as attempts to be LAMIST rather than as genuine questions that were asked to gather information to help gamesolve, seems much more likely to come from scum than town.

VOTE: LabRat01

Here he pushes me for pushing others instead of asking for their motivations, which I find funny coming from someone with such a high game-count.
Even regardless of how many games he played, I find it hard to believe that a player who’s capable of writing such an elaborate analysis of my posts would be unaware that “pushing people” “allows you to read them better” and progresses the game, which is necessary at any point of the game.
Like, c’mon, he did play a lot of games on the site so he should have realized that if people ask questions, they’re most likely gonna get calm, composed answers, which aren’t really gonna help you do anything. Of course some people might just not like pushing others without a reason, but it doesn’t mean others can’t do that and everyone who pushes people early is scum.

Like, I really don’t want to believe that he’s being serious here. Him pushing me for that feels like he was just forcing himself to find a looong, non-sheepy reason for me being scum, without actually caring if it actually makes sense or not.
This post is long and I’ll give him credit for saying that the reasons behind my pushes were bad (even though they weren't), but the main part of it is just terribly empty.

And I don’t like how he disappeared right after writing that. Except the short VCA reasoning and TR on duck, he hasn’t done anything to progress the game, not even asking questions which he was pushing me for.
That’s just incredibly lazy

P.Edit…
Which just changed, so ignore that part.

If you are town, you are really misunderstanding why I am scumreading you -- or you are deliberately trying to misrepresent me if you are scum. I am not against aggressively pressuring and pushing people. I do it myself all the time, and I have even put someone at L-1 on page one of a newbie game as town (see: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=77453) precisely because I wanted to pressure that person. The last thing I am against is pressuring people to see how they react.

No, my problem is that you tried to

shut down/discourage

legitimate questions from both TW and Lefty, both of which were questions about Keyser's slot. In your post you seem to be setting up this false dichotomy where a choice has to be made between questioning someone vs pressuring someone. Why does it have to be either or? You can certainly ask people legitimate questions while simultaneously pressuring them. You want to push TW and Lefty to see how they react? Fine, but you shouldn't be trying to shut down and discourage the legitimate questions they asked about Keyser's slot.

THAT

is what I have a problem with -- you could have pressured Lefty and TW without trying to shutdown their questions about Keyser.

I'm struggling to see the town motivation in trying to shutdown both of their respective questions about Keyser. I mean, if TW and Lefty are both town, think about it from their perspective. If they are both town, and they find one another to be townie, doesn't it make sense for them to talk to one another about Keyser, especially if they are both trying to get an accurate read on Keyser? I mean this is a team game after all, so it makes sense to discuss your reads and other slots with people you find to be towny. So they ask legitimate questions of each other about Keyser's slot, and then you come along and within seven minutes, write two back-to-back posts where you basically call both of them LAMIST, and tell both of them that they are wasting time by asking each other questions about Keyser's slot. But why call it a waste of time -- why assume the questions they were asking each other wouldn't help both of them get a better read on Keyser? Because if getting answers to their questions would help them to better sort Keyser, then it would be a pretty good usage of time, no?

Again the problem isn't that you were aggressive towards TW and Lefty, it's that you tried to "redirect" them away from talking about Keyser and questioning each other about Keyser, when I don't believe you had a legitimate reason for doing so. So yes, for now I am quite skeptical of your motivations.

So those were my first five posts. Then Irrelephant posts this in 377:

Mod I’m always v/la saturday & sunday

My one thought without fully catching up is this seems like a towny volxen, unless he’s trying very very hard to improve his scumgame (no nuance there)

And TW posts this in 410:

@volxen putting associations, VCA and scum partner theories aside, are you t/reading the worst independently?

I don't feel comfortable giving TW a townread yet, no. I do think he made a good case against Rat, especially in post 297, and I do find Rat to have the most scum equity at the moment, but I'm not ready to write off TW as town yet either.

Where I am currently at is I find Dr. J to be the most towny player and Rat to be the most scummy player. I'm still kind of unsure on everyone else.

@Keyser, I am starting to get concerned that if Rat is scum, you could be one of her partners. As I pointed out earlier, it was just odd how quick she was to attack two different people for asking, in my opinion, completely legitimate questions about your slot. If she is scum it's possible that she is simply buddying/defending town!Keyser, but the way she wanted to shut down both questions about Keyser's slot could be indicative of SvS interactions. Keyser, if Rat is scum, why is TW more likely to be one of her partners than you?

But in any case, do you really think TW would gambit as scum and try to get his one of his scumbuddies sent to hell on day one? I would consider that quite a risky gambit because if he does that, then the only way he could win as scum is if both he and his remaining scumbuddy get sent to Heaven. So unless he's convinced that both he and his other scumbuddy could get a lot of towncredit for busing Rat, it seems like quite a risky play to open on day one by busing one of his partners in a game mode that, in my opinion, heavily discourages busing.

This post is so so towny
god if I'm misreading volxen here I'm going to feel dumb as shit postgame

So after my first five posts, they both basically come to the exact same conclusion that I am obvious town in this game. And both of their respective townreads of me have to do with the fact that since I had no nuance with my fake reads as scum in Watcher Wanted, that that in and of itself proves that I am town in this game, since my reads are more nuanced in this game. But I was the first person lynched in Watcher Wanted, over two months ago in early September. As Ausuka pointed out, why would they believe that if I were scum in this game, that my play would be exactly the same as it was in Watcher Wanted? I'ts been over two months since that game ended for me, and I have played numerous games in that time. And beyond that, I've played with town!Irrelephant very recently (In Newbie 1894), and town!TW less recently (in Newbie 1888). In both of those games, neither of them pegged me as obvious town right off of the bat. In newbie 1888, TW hard scumread me on day 1 and pushed for my lynch, and only came around to townreading me on day 2. And in Newbie 1894, Irrelephant was skeptical of my slot all the way until lylo, when my lack of quickhammering proved that I was town. And I don't think I am more super obvious town in this game compared to either of those other games, so something doesn't add up here because the town!TW and town!Irrelephant that I know don't give out such strong townreads so easily and so early on in the game.

Keyser's skepticism towards my slot, which eventually lead to a townread but only after several real-time interactions between us, feels very natural and towny.

Do you think Irrelephant is more likely to give me an "easy" townread like that If I am scum or town? I known I'm town, and it came across to me like he chose me to be one of his townreads beforehand because he knew it would be easy for him to justify his townread of me. I found it suspicious -- even more suspicious than your initial "easy" townread of me -- because his only previous experience with me was Watcher Wanted (where I was scum) and Newbie 1894 (where I was town). Whereas you and I have played together in Newbie 1885 (where I was town), Newbie 1888 (where I was town), Watcher Wanted (where I was scum), and Newbie 1894 (where I was town). You have a lot more experience playing with me (especially with playing with

town me

) than Irrelephant does, which is why your "easy" townread of me is more believable than Irrelephant's. You've seen town!me in three different games, Irrelephant has only seen it in one, and yet he almost instantly declared me as town in this game.

Do you really think Irrelephants treatment of my slot is more likely SvS rather than TvS/buddying?

[the worst]

That's exactly the mind melt phase I'm in right now. his read of you was either TMI or partner indicative but one thing I really liked from you in retrospect was your bite back. But the more I think about it that's something scum!rrelephant could have easily coached you through to come off as anti-aligned