Open 738: Purgatory | LA FIN

[the worst]

Just floating through your ISO and god you're good
okay one question: why did you never vote rel until you L-1'd him?

[Keyser Söze]

Updated:

-------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't know why this is here but I want to see it in my ISO:

Creature

(5) -

Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde

, volxen, Ausuka, the worst,

Irrelephant

Keyser

(2) - LabRat01,

Creature

Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde

(1) - Eragon
Eragon (1) -

Keyser Söze

Not Voting -

Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde

(5) -

Keyser Söze

, volxen, Ausuka,

Irrelephant

,

Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde

volxen (1) - the worst
Not Voting - LabRat01, Eragon

Irrelephant

(4) - Eragon, the worst, volxen, LabRat01
Eragon (1) - Irrelephant
Not Voting - Ausuka,

Keyser Söze

[the worst]

Off wagon wolf is usually Eragon

Keysssss you should selfvote

[the worst]

fyi high key protown to self vote @ l-1
L-1'd wolf is an instant win so

[Keyser Söze]

fyi high key protown to self vote @ l-1
L-1'd wolf is an instant win so

I'm unlikely to vote today again.

[the worst]

fyi high key protown to self vote @ l-1
L-1'd wolf is an instant win so

I'm unlikely to vote today again.

sigh....... only because ily

[Keyser Söze]

Off wagon wolf is usually Eragon

I have a gut feeling I shouldn't trust Eragon, but then I look at all the reasons I've posted why I town read him.
Please can we look at him one more time.

[Keyser Söze]

ily2

[Keyser Söze]

I just skimmed eragon's ISO

Someone else said they saw a strong start. I didn't see that, all I saw was basically a lot of fluff there. Without knowing any meta of him I can't really draw substantial conclusions as to his alignment from that. I like the tone of his posts, but that's about it. I also noticed in his post on creatures iso, there was a lot of IIOA. I think town will tend to do that actually day 1, since it's about all the scumhunting they can do at that period. Wheras scum, especially newscum doesn't have to scumhunt with the benefit of foreknowledge so they will probably just fluff around not doing much - at least, that's what I did end up doing in my other two games. When you see someone posting a case with IIOA maybe later on that's more scummy imo. Basically what I'm saying, IIOA at this stage would be evident of genuine effort which I think scum probably won't do at that stage

I'm putting that down as slight town based on that

Thoughts...

[Keyser Söze]

Also, quick readslist:
{DrJ}
{Volxen, Eragon}
{Irrel, Ausuka, TW}
{} - Null
{Lab(?), Soze(?)}
{Creature}
{}

Isn't it said 'always keep your teammate around null'?

[the worst]

Off wagon wolf is usually Eragon

I have a gut feeling I shouldn't trust Eragon, but then I look at all the reasons I've posted why I town read him.
Please can we look at him one more time.

I don't disagree with regular reevaluation darling but we have two lynches left... who are they?

[the worst]

Also, quick readslist:
{DrJ}
{Volxen, Eragon}
{Irrel, Ausuka, TW}
{} - Null
{Lab(?), Soze(?)}
{Creature}
{}

Isn't it said 'always keep your teammate around null'?

But in practice it's pretty rare to see both teammates in the same tier

[the worst]

I'd be happy to lose if you're the last wolf but I do prefer winning... x
Self vote for me?

[Keyser Söze]

Can anyone please tell me if any of my reasons below to town read Eragon are bulls**t, reachy or unsupported:

Spoiler:

I've played with scum-Eragon before, and in that game it was evident he knew who were town, who were scum, and built strong reads and certain associations off of it (

even trying to connect me to his scum partner, to misslynch me. In that game, I incorrectly read his behaviour as town-play via WIFOM.

)

However, in this game, he doesn't show that same unnerving/suspicious conviction. He simply doesn't know who is who, and who to trust. Even with his D1 reads and town case on Creature he was proud of he was convinced/bullied to ignore it and

wander alone in a wilderness of frustration and confusion

instead, leading into today.





It is

Eragon's very search for truth

this game why I am kinda banking on him being town here, here is why:

Chapter 1: the read that best reveals town!Eragon

We have to back to the beginning.

i do have a gut TR on you through skim, but its nothing strong and i know i shouldn't rush a read on any of you lmao, and i dont have time to dive rn

Here we see Eragon express a gentle tentative take on players he knows. No chainsaw, no extreme read and no dramatic buddy attempt. Eragon is here to scumhunt and not scumgambit.

Then we have Eragon's town-case on Creature. It demonstrates all the tells of a townie naturally coming to a read:
- the look for tonal / naturalness over content (I always believe scum just can't help but reach for the low hanging fruit, and bite on the playstyle that just doesn't fit in to town site-meta. I have been a victim of this a lot on mafiascum.)
- expresses just enough town paranoia on Creature bestowing a town read on their slot's single RVS post, and demonstrates towny affection: to be fond of irrational posts).
- Eragon is self reflective on the strength of their own read and observation
- identifies with Creature's position of being natural and not forcing out reads (see Eragon is looking past Creature's unconventional behaviour and seeing town motivation. THAT is the balance and discernment you need to judge a player like Creature who will never power-town.)
- Eragon consistently keeps measuring up town motivation vs scum motivation
- Eragon correctly identifies Creature's fluff as NAI.
- Eragon realises Creature is being consistent.
- Eragon exercising inner turmoil: Eragon can understand Creature's frustration but not his conclusion, here is Eragon reaching out hoping to understand Creature's perspective. Thus, Eragon accepts even though Creature's actions cannot be explained from their perspective ('the bad stuff' at the time), this does not overpower the genuine town pings he has felt ('the good stuff', as explanations can always be added later). Eragon had every chance to jump ship here, but this natural read feels real.
- Eragon didn't give into the propaganda saying Creature was lurking. Eragon correctly identified he was actually one of the highest posters.
- Eragon isn't nose-diving into a strong town read or a strong scum read, they are exploring each side of the coin.

This is Eragon making a step-by-step solve of Creature's alignment. It doesn't feel like he's started with a read first and worked backwards. This natural flow of the ISO dive doesn't feel agenda-driven: Creature HAS NOT presented a

'Creature is town, and those scum reading him are scum'

case. Eragon has looked underneath the rocks, beneath the sea, through the vines and long grass. Eragon has scrutinised both sides of Creature to come to his read. Eragon's whole approach on Creature

drips with town

.

[

We will return to how Eragon's town case on Creature was discredited on D1 tomorrow

].

'Chapter 2: Eragon is genuinely weirded out by me', follows....

Few further thoughts on Eragon...

i think im confident enough calling TW/Keyser TvS, never SvS, and if they are both TvT i am fucking up somewhere, so i think thats good for me.

I think Eragon's association theory regarding me and TW was rational on D2. If I were to look from the outside in, there is nothing reachy about that conclusion given mine and Ducky's intense 12 round bout.

Who is the only person(other than maybe keyser?) That correctly read creature
Who actually MADE A CASE on volxen being town that’s not “Oh ThEiR fIrSt FiVe PoStS mAkE tHeM oBv ToWn On MeTa”
Who has been reconsidering reads
Who has 40 more posts than you and joined at the end of D1
Who has acually been in thread for the majority of time active?

Self-commendation: Eragon sharing a list of all the positive/pro-town play he thinks he deserves credit for. This righteous indignation expressed towards Relly is pretty believeable as coming from town!Eragon. This is also 1 post of 2 that Eragon kills probable-scum!Irrelephant.

im akshully very confident in an Irrel!scum here.
they do not have the same form of transparant towni-ness that they were fond of in WW.
Like, did anyone ever even scumread them in WW?
they were extremly obvious through thoughts, reads, wagons, etc... and even from a scum perspective i knew that was always going to be town

Death by meta: Post 2 of 2 of Eragon killing Irrelephant. I can't help but agree with Eragon's observations here.

@TW, i know you have said you can't see yourself being TvT, but is it possible to re-revaluate? When you feel up to it of course.

@keyser, same question to you.

The peace maker: Interesting... Eragon was a strong advocate of there being one scum in me and TW on D2. But here is Eragon now trying to encourage TW and I to re-evaluate our stances on eachother. (

There is possible TW-Eragon scum connection here, but I don't scum-read either slot, so that association is a red-herring

) I do personally like this change of read from Eragon, as the same damn thing was going through my head early D3 after Dr J's flip.



Bottom line:

I'm finding it really hard trying to see Eragon's read development as manufactured/scum motivated.

The conclusions they've expressed all make sense. Please can Eragon just be town here. Otherwise, f**k this game.

RE: Eragon - I did like some of the meta points he raised (can you personally see a difference in your energy/WIM/game solving pointedness between this game our previous games together?)

[the worst]

but keys... who's teh scumz

[Keyser Söze]

[Ok, I understand the risk of me hammering as last-wolf.]
VOTE: Keyser

[the worst]

for the record I agree. in an easier solve, eragon is always town. but WHO THE HELL IS THE LAST SCUM

pedit: you have never been more beautiful to me than at this moment omg

[Keyser Söze]

[Ok, I understand the risk of me hammering as last-wolf.]
VOTE: Keyser

Can you please unvote though TW.

[the worst]

mechanically only[
UNVOTE:

[Keyser Söze]

but keys... who's teh scumz

I'm working on it.

I'm trying to reset all my reads today and work from there...

[the worst]

mechanically only[
UNVOTE:

yeah same

thing is in a vacuum I can townread everyone alive rn but assuming we are indeedy TvT there's 2 lynches left

[the worst]

sorry for bad quotes drunkposting

[Keyser Söze]

thing is in a vacuum I can townread everyone alive rn but assuming we are indeedy TvT there's 2 lynches left

Yes, I just tried to put together a D3 readslist, but after a few revisions I had pretty much everyone on the same line

I want to scrutinize every player and read I have (starting with Eragon and LabRat).

[the worst]

yeah it's a mighty awkward feel when everyone looks technically towny and you're like "ah... where did I go wrong......."

[Ausuka]

tw and I agree the scum chat is very sad without you

:thinkign:

Is Irrelephant the kind of person who would vote his two scumbuddies successively at the beginning of the game?

In post 649, the worst wrote:
wild, I don't mind those reads

how do you feel about
Hell: Creature
Heaven: DrJ
Hell: Keyser
Heaven: Volxen

Confession I'm not 100% sure when the win is triggered but I think this just gets us there

also I feel mmmm pretty good about this?

if this wins Irrele the game I think him supporting it makes a lot of sense?

Okay

To start, volxen and I just finished a newbie game together tvt.
One of the biggest differences I saw in his play in the newbie vs in Watchmen Wanted was in how he formed reads. In WW his reads were something like "This player is pushing someone I think is town, therefore scum" and "lurking is scummy". That's about as deep as he ever got (read: so shallow they're not even in the water, even as he wrote walls to say it all)
In the newbie, his reads were "This player's suggestions help a pro-scum agenda, therefore scum" and "This player's play would be extremely risky and likely to fail if scum, therefore town". The first of the two reads I'm describing here (scumread on varsoon) was wrong, but he
a) clearly believed it
2) was considering other players' motivations in both cases, which showed much deeper thinking about "why" someone's play is scummy, rather than leaning on caricatures of scummy play to make other players more mislynchable.

From his 307 - "I would think town!Rat would understand that this game isn't just about everyone forming their own reads in isolation and then presenting their readslist to the rest of the group, but it's largely a game that involves interacting with everyone else to understand their motivations, which includes asking players questions such as, "what did you think about X from player Y?" The fact that Rat's initial reaction to both questions about Keyser was to immediately label them as attempts to be LAMIST rather than as genuine questions that were asked to gather information to help gamesolve, seems much more likely to come from scum than town."
This paragraph alone is halfway to townclearing for volxen imo. It reminds me of his push on Varsoon - probably wrong (if I'm right about labrat), but he believes it and is taking into account more than surface-level scum traits. He's really trying to find another player's motivations.

I won't say volxen HAS to be town here, because I will take into account his tryhard-ness and comments he's made about wanting to improve his scumgame, but I think his similarities to his play in the newbie and the difference between this and WW is notable and obvious - not to mention he is game solving mostly un-prompted so far, whereas a lot of the development of his reads in WW came after he was wagoned

the fact that tw also meta-townreads volxen helps confirm, as I think regardless of tw's alignment he'd probably agree that this is very different from the weak scumgame we've seen from volxen, and is very similar to town!volxen as seen elsewhere

How do you read him?

Super meh.

So I haven't finished reading yet but from what I've gathered so far I plan to vote keyser today.