Micro 834 : Vanilla 8-Ball : Game Over

[pinturicchio]

And that's not even mentioning the prize money: the winner of this contest will be entitled to

ONE CRISP HIGH FIVE FROM THE WORST!!

OMG I NEED TO WIN THIS

[pinturicchio]

also voting me is always a scumclaim

VOTE: NSG

[pinturicchio]

Oh no I fucked up

[pinturicchio]

also voting me is always a townclaim

There, now is correct

[pinturicchio]

Good vote; stay right where you are

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lol pintu do you have a read on nsg yet

Of course not; do you?

[pinturicchio]

Wait, do you actually have a read on me??

[pinturicchio]

you and saudade are competing for my scummiest read (which is to say, you're both more likely town than scum, but you're also more likely scum than the other active players)

[pinturicchio]

Have you played with nsg before?

Yeah, but either I was scum and she was town, or we had Mathdino to solve her slot so I've never worried too much about reading her correctly. She's been always town in those games tho, so if I can see something different I'll jump in, but right now I haven't been serious and I don't know if you have noticed that

[pinturicchio]

No I noticed it but I wanted to pressure it and see what happened

Fine by me, I see where you are coming from

[pinturicchio]

Sweet, we did it NSG.

We convinced relly we're both town. Now we just need to convince him to lead all the mislynches one by one and this game is in the bag.

easy!

oops, meant to post this in scumchat.

I didn't know this was a multiball

[pinturicchio]

I knew it!

By the way, what's up with Frozen Angel and Vivi? I'm townreading everyone who has posted so I think we got this in the bag

[pinturicchio]

I didn’t know the original black mage had a name

Me neither, I learned that when someone else called him Vivi in this place and I was like "who the hell is vivi" and now you learned it because of me so it's like a full circle for me I'm so happy

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hi

This is town vivi guys

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Pintu do you actually have a townread on ceejay?

You will a have a bad time with me. I'll take shit seriously from now on

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ceejay, my awkwardness is literally consensus (I agree myself). Anything original you'd like to share?

Kinda wanna vote pintu too. His posts don't look town enough to me.

I haven't said anything serious in the whole game

[pinturicchio]

I like Frozen Angel's entrance, gave the game some fuel. Vivi's vote on Irrelephant was jumpy, but I don't wanna vote for him 'cause he's the perfect 8-ball

[pinturicchio]

ceejay, my awkwardness is literally consensus (I agree myself). Anything original you'd like to share?

Kinda wanna vote pintu too. His posts don't look town enough to me.

I haven't said anything serious in the whole game

Exactly!

What I mean is that of course my posts don't look town. Are you implying that, at this point, I should have been already posted something serious?

[pinturicchio]

I like Frozen Angel's entrance, gave the game some fuel. Vivi's vote on Irrelephant was jumpy, but I don't wanna vote for him 'cause he's the perfect 8-ball

why do you think that about vivi?

'Cause I don't believe his reason for voting Irrelephant:

I'm getting awkward tones off irrelephant on the first two pages

VOTE: irrelephant

He talked about awkwardness in the first two pages, when there was a lot more content to see after that. Feels like vivi thought it was a good moment to place a vote there since Jingle and NSG were both suspecting Irrelephant. The timing and the lack of a good reason to vote makes me believe he has ulterior motives to place that vote there. Specially after being told by Irrelephant that his awkwardness is NAI, not only he doesn't unvote, but he tells him that he wants to vote for me too; it seems to me that that post was made to have an excuse to jump on an eventual wagon on me without backlash. So yeah, vivi feels jumpy to me.

[pinturicchio]

ceejay, my awkwardness is literally consensus (I agree myself). Anything original you'd like to share?

Kinda wanna vote pintu too. His posts don't look town enough to me.

I haven't said anything serious in the whole game

Exactly!

What I mean is that of course my posts don't look town. Are you implying that, at this point, I should have been already posted something serious?

uh kinda?

I mean, we are past rvs right

I don't take things seriously until everything is here, 'cause coming to a game to post for the first time and see that everyone started without you is rude. Also, in case that the player who hasn't posted is scum, getting serious without them posting gives them some space to make effortless content when he/she arrives. Jingle/NSG/Irrelephant all felt town from the begining, so I had to wait for you and Frozen Angel to confirm if those slots were townier than both of you. You look scummier to me than them, Frozen Angel feels townie. In small games, PoE is the best tool to get things right.
So yeah, I wouldn't post anything serious until you and Frozen posted something

[pinturicchio]

EBWOP until everyone* is here, not everything

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Oh, nobody told me we were going to vote like shit! Let me see:

VOTE: Frozen Angel

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I expect more from you, NSG. You usually have good early reads, and you should know better. It's too early to vote you because of BoP, but continue pushing me and I'm telling my parents about you. Believe me, you don't want that. Spooky.

[pinturicchio]

Vivi, on the other hand, did exactly what I said he would do.

VOTE: ceejayvinoya

[pinturicchio]

I expect more from you, NSG. You usually have good early reads, and you should know better. It's too early to vote you because of BoP, but continue pushing me and I'm telling my parents about you. Believe me, you don't want that. Spooky.

why are you town? what about your play this game is your towngame as opposed to your scumgame? if you're going to say that you expect better from me, i can't just be wrong, i have to be going off of poor reasoning. after all, just like i said to JJH in 728, if someone played to what seemed like a theoretical scumgame even if they were town, it would still be reasonable to vote that person.

are you serious about voting me because of burden of proof? you seem to already be taking it that i'm town, so that seems kind of a hollow threat. why do you townread me already? you said earlier that you don't really have experience with reading me and questioned irrelephant's read on me, but later said that "[nsg] felt town from the beginning". when did you start townreading me?

why do you think frozen angel would be at terrible vote?

I think that the game got a little more pace when FA posted; the game has been stagnating at times, so I FA's effort felt refreshing. That, in my opinion, comes from town. At this moment, it's the only townread I have. So to answer your other questions:
1. Why am I NOT town? I think that's my point, I haven't had the opportunity to express myself, and an early push doesn't help me to town it up. I think of myself as a pretty obvious town when I get the chance to do my thing, so an early push is a good way to take me out and not give me that opportunity.
2. That being said, I think I haven't showed anything at all, either my towngame or my scumgame. That's my bad. But if I haven't shown anything, why do you assume that's my scumgame? You have seen me as scum: not showing effort is not a scumtell of mine.
3. I am serious about the BoP; I'm not townreading you. I was at the begining, but it was a superficial read. I still can't sort you out easily, and I really don't want you to be scum 'cause I think you're better at this than me. That's where the BoP thing comes: maybe I expect more than you 'cause I have a good image of town!NSG, and I have evidence of you having great early reads. I'm not used to being pushed so early.

In the end, I would not push a wagon on you on D1. Not even a chance of doing that. Maybe I expected the same treat since I'm a good town player; maybe not at catching scum, but by being obv!town and relying on PoE.

[pinturicchio]

1. I'm asking you why not showing effort this early means I'm scum, when being effortless is not common on me either as town or scum. If you think I should already have shown my towniness, you're right, and that's on me. But I do the same as scum, or I try to, since I know I'm a good early townread for the rest. So I'm saying that my effort here is NAI, and I'm asking you to give me the chance to show my townside instead of forming a wagon on me.

2. In 154 I said you felt town in the beginning, FELT as the keyword. I never said I was townreading you. Also, in 154 I said it was at the begining, not that I kept thinking that. As I said, the only good townread I have right now is FA and I want more, 'cause PoE is the way to win this game. And I'm not scumreading you either; I insist, I'm not Mathdino, I don't know how to read you, never did the effort to do it 'cause Dino was always there, and I haven't seen you as scum before.

[pinturicchio]

-shrug-

if you're town then it's not like my votes on you are stopping you from doing other things.

most people read me through activity and through my depth of thought.

That's my problem: I've seen you more active here than in the other games we've played together, but your depth of thought is good. So what the fuck!

Yeah, but vivi the jumpy guy and Jingle his white knight are on me now too, and I'm one vote away of being L-1, and the deadline is close. So I was hoping to get a better wagon than me right now.

Scumreading vivi for being jumpy is not a thing of this game only; he does that as scum. He engages more with his votes as town. His votes on Relly and me are awful.

[pinturicchio]

What I meant is that your activity feels different, but your depth of thought doesn't. So I can't townread you, but I can't scumread you either.

Don't worry, I know what to do to town it up, but that doesn't change the fact that vivi is probably one of the scum in this game.

[pinturicchio]

Oh sure, don't take on consideration the rest of what I said

[pinturicchio]

Tonewise, I think Gamma is town here, but not convinced. So as you said, I think you got one scum on each group.

I'll give more in depth comments in a minute.

[pinturicchio]

Vivi, on the other hand, did exactly what I said he would do.

VOTE: ceejayvinoya

What is it you said he would do again?

This, bolded specially:

He talked about awkwardness in the first two pages, when there was a lot more content to see after that. Feels like vivi thought it was a good moment to place a vote there since Jingle and NSG were both suspecting Irrelephant. The timing and the lack of a good reason to vote makes me believe he has ulterior motives to place that vote there. Specially after being told by Irrelephant that his awkwardness is NAI, not only he doesn't unvote, but he tells him that he wants to vote for me too;

it seems to me that that post was made to have an excuse to jump on an eventual wagon on me without backlash

. So yeah, vivi feels jumpy to me.

After saying this, NSG voted me and surprise surprise:

VOTE: pintu

Vivi has given no reasons for voting me else than "I haven't seen town posts from him", something really vague if you ask me.

[pinturicchio]

I like Frozen Angel's entrance, gave the game some fuel. Vivi's vote on Irrelephant was jumpy, but I don't wanna vote for him 'cause he's the perfect 8-ball

Has your thought on 8-ball changed or the worry disappeared? Or ceejay is now that strong of a scumread for you? Or something else? This concern seems to have dissipated as quickly as it arrived

What I meant is that your activity feels different, but your depth of thought doesn't. So I can't townread you, but I can't scumread you either.

Don't worry, I know what to do to town it up, but that doesn't change the fact that vivi is probably one of the scum in this game.

High activity and deep thought are both towntells for nsg. Now do you townread her?

1. Vivi doing what I thought he would do changed my mind. I don't know what scum decided to do before starting the game, but if I were scum, I would've chosen vivi and I would certainly get a mislynch there. I know I can. The thing is, I read the thread again and I didn't see no one pushing vivi before me, so I have three information pieces to process: one, I already believe that vivi is mislynchable and it's a good pick for 8-ball; two, nobody talked about vivi before me; and three, he's doing what I expect to see coming from scum!vivi. So my conclusion is that vivi was not chosen as the 8-ball ('cause if the scumteam chose him, I believe they would have at list said something about vivi not being in the thread), and that I can push him freely since I believe he's scum. The only one doing what I expected scum would do about vivi is me, and I know I'm not scum, so...

2. In my experience, I have never seen high activity coming from town!NSG; that's why I'm so confused about that slot. I'm inclined to believe she's town, but there are some details that makes {NSG, vivi} a feasible scumteam. But as I said, I would not push a wagon on NSG at D1 and without having vivi's flip before, I don't want to talk about that scumteam possibility now.

[pinturicchio]

You see, I agreed with me lacking towniness at some point, but after my conversation with NSG and my answer to you, now I think that I don't deserve the "lack of towniness" label when there are other players who have contributed much less than me. I've towned it up enough at this point

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@Relly he has been pretty conservative about giving reads. What I remember about scum!Gamma is that he usually gives some "thoughtful" reads at the begining. In here, he sticked with his plan of hunting with the daytalk thing, and gave a townread on you after that (if I understood that correctly). Having you as his only explicit townread is something I don't see scum!Gamma doing here.

That being said, I've never been reliable at reading Gamma (not because I don't get it right, but because I don't trust myself as much as I do with other players), but that's what I think about it.

[pinturicchio]

can you summarize your scumread on pintu soon?

Vote on CJ immediately after speccing CJ 8-ball = gross. 184 is also really slayer's gambity.
Trusting in the NSG read.
Shade on me for WK-ing was very meh.
Argument that no one is voting the person he thinks is mislynch bait and therefore he's town for doing so is so LAMIST it hurts.

1. So I can't change my perspective about someone? Do I have to believe until the end of the game that CJ was chosen as the 8-ball on D1? I already explained my point of view about that.
2. Fair, but not enough.
3. I don't know what WK is so meh.
4. You got that absolutely wrong. I said that SCUM would be doing that if they chose him as the 8-ball, but the only person pushing CJ is me, so I believe that CJ is indeed scum.

You're just voting me 'cause you have nothing better, and that's on you, not me.


p-edit: It clearly says "at least say something about vivi's absence", never said they would vote him; there are other ways to make people remember that one slot exists, like an inception way to do it.

[pinturicchio]

I said I have done anything at all. You're pretty much misrepping me, since I already explained about the CJ being eightball thing, and making bad interpretations of the rest. You have nothing on me.

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Having you as his only explicit townread is something I don't see scum!Gamma doing here.

why not?

Am I right in saying that your townread of Gamma comes mostly from thinking scum!him would do something other than what he has been doing, and not from anything specific he has done so far?

I think scum!Gamma has more reads at this point of the game, specially at least one scumlean he shades a little bit. I mean, this is a Micro, so I don't think he would be like "I got two scumreads, we got this", but having only one townread, that's more likely town!Gamma.

[pinturicchio]

1. So I can't change my perspective about someone? Do I have to believe until the end of the game that CJ was chosen as the 8-ball on D1? I already explained my point of view about that.

2. Fair, but not enough.

3. I don't know what WK is so meh.

4. You got that absolutely wrong. I said that SCUM would be doing that if they chose him as the 8-ball, but

the only person pushing CJ is me

, so I believe that CJ is indeed scum.

You're just voting me 'cause you have nothing better, and that's on you, not me.

p-edit: It clearly says "at least say something about vivi's absence",

never said they would vote him

; there are other ways to make people remember that one slot exists, like an inception way to do it.

You can change opinions. I can find those opinion changes scummy.

White Knighting. You accused me of white knighting CJ when I voted you.

Bold:

I am just voting for you because none of my other scumleads are stronger. Congratulations! Are you saying that I should be scumreading someone else particularly strongly at this point?

Oh right, I did said you were WKing. I still think that.

I'm saying that you're giving reasons to Relly on why you are voting me, but the only real reason you should say is "I'm not scumreading anyone else", and that's your problem, not mine, because I have given enough reasons to stop being scumread.

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Jingle idk what your point is there. We both speculated about 8-balls...?

I'm saying that it's pretty weird he's saying that CJ is a probable 8 ball target, but has no paranoia about voting there because of it because no one is pushing the slot when you already specced that scum would avoid pushing their 8 ball choice. Regardless of the truth of both guesses, it's at least something that's been brought up, so I would expect town pint to think about it if he really did think CJ was a good 8ball target.

I did think it, and that's why I said I wouldn't vote for him at first. Then I explained my thought process on why I changed my mind.

This is the third time you ignore that statement.

[pinturicchio]

What do you think of Relly's thought that scum would try to stay away from the 8 ball on D1 pint?

I don't agree. I mean I wouldn't try to be very vocal about it, but lynching the 8-ball on D1 es very important for scum. If there's a mislynch on D1 that's not the 8ball, you get a lot of info out of that lynch that could be pretty menacing for scum on D2, and you secure that there will be a D3, since on D2 you would be at a 5t/2s situation, leaving you with the worst scenario to be a 3t/2s if the 8ball is lynched on D2. That LyLo would have enough info to get the next lynch right, leaving you with a 3t/1s situation where, if the remaining scum can't make the lynch on the 8ball, there would be one more day with a 2t/1s situation. If town doesn't get the remaining scum lynched by that time, either scum deserves the win or town deserves to lose.

Instead, if the 8ball is mislynched on D1, we go automatically to a situation where, if the second 8ball is mislynched, town lose, so in comparison with what I explained above, D3 is not secured, and there would be much more pressure on town to vote with discression.

So I think that an optimal strategy for scum is to push a wagon on the 8ball as soon as they can, and that's why I think CJ is not the 8ball.

[pinturicchio]

do you expect early wagons to always go through?

if that's your viewpoint, who

do

you think the 8-ball is?

In a game with a short deadline, combined with low effort and content? Yes, I expect an early wagon to go through. By that, I think Relly is the 8-ball. I don't think I'll be lynched today, this is just a facade to jump on Relly whenever the time is right. And I know a certain player who would jump on Relly without a doubt

[pinturicchio]

The other player who has been discussed is you, Relly. I think the wheel would steer back to you. And the last thing was some free shading towards vivi for being jumpy, nothing else

[pinturicchio]

Who is planning to jump on my wagon?

I already answered you.

[pinturicchio]

you get a lot of info out of that lynch

What information is that?

Assume for the moment that I am the D1 lynch and not the 8-ball. What would that tell you?

That lynch as any lynch gives you info, who was on the wagon, who wasn't, etc. If you were lynched and you weren't the 8-ball, it would depend on who was being wagoned before you. For scum, ideal lynch is 8-ball>any other town>scum, so if you get lynched, it could be either the 8-ball was playing good, maybe you were a counter wagon, who voted you, who didn't...

If you're asking for specific information, there's only Saudade voting you right now, so I don't know what else I could say about that.

[pinturicchio]

I'm gonna stop defending myself, I have enough of it. I don't think the scumteam would have the guts to choose me as the 8ball so my lynch is not as bad as a Relly lynch. @Jingle and @NSG, if you still think I'm the scummiest player after all I have done at this point, you're as wrong as it gets, since there are at least 4 players who are active lurking. I'm getting surgery tomorrow and will be on the hospital until Thursday, so I don't have more time to do anything else to avoid this mislynch.

For everyone, if my lynch is done, consider everything I said about vivi, look out for Jingle and NSG, and trust Relly and FA. Bye bye

[pinturicchio]

The other player who has been discussed is you, Relly. I think the wheel would steer back to you. And the last thing was some free shading towards vivi for being jumpy, nothing else

oh I misread this. Do you actually think I'm the 8-ball, though?

Why would I lie about what I think when the pressure's on me? Yes, I do think you're the 8-ball, I think scum was planning to get some attention on you an then try to lynch you near the deadline. So by saying this, I'm practically assuring you won't be lynched, making my statement even more believable (I'm protecting who I believe the 8ball is).

[pinturicchio]

i don't think it's correct to view you as townier simply because you're being more active than other people and i would be surprised if you held that same consistent viewpoint in how you scumhunted as town.

Did I say I was townier for being more active compared to others?

[pinturicchio]

I already did my best to avoid a mislynch on me. I played bad at the begining for personal reasons, and the blame would've been on me if I was mislynched. Now, it's not.

[pinturicchio]

if you still think I'm the scummiest player after all I have done at this point, you're as wrong as it gets, since there are at least 4 players who are active lurking.

this seems pretty exactly like that, yeah

Two different statements, but ok, I get your point. I meant to say that I have towned myself not because of effort or activeness but because of content.

[pinturicchio]

Not doing that much? Ok

[pinturicchio]

I'm pretty sure that I'm the one who has dedicated the most to this game in order to avoid the lynch, engaging with the other active players, telling them my points of view on everything I can say in this low activity game. What a fucking waste of time

[pinturicchio]

Yes, and will still be until D2, unless someone scumclaims or something. I have nothing on Saudade, a lot of paranoia on Jingle and NSG, a townread on FA and you, and a townlean on Gamma. The other player I would vote is Jingle, 'cause I wouldn't vote NSG in any case. But I have a better read on CJ, so that's it.

[pinturicchio]

alright alright, I'll let you AtE me for a bit

you shouldn't

I don't believe that qualifies as AtE, by the way. He reduced what I've done in this game to almost nothing, when I have clearly contributed much more.

[pinturicchio]

Welp. As I said, I did my best to avoid the mislynch. I won't be here for the deadline, so parking my vote on vivi. If anyone of the active lurkers wants to defend my case, I'll be very thankful. If not, good luck to town! You'll clearly need it.

[pinturicchio]

mod, I'll be on V/LA until Thursday/Friday since I'm having cirgury tomorrow morning

Good luck guys! For the rest of town: by not making more effort, you're making yourself an easy 8-ball target. That's for you, Gamma, and whoever else identifies with this.

[pinturicchio]

Yay, we won! Good job everyone for solving it, after muy lynch I thought y'all wouldn't come to an agreement, but Penguin was solid af with his Jingle push.

NSG shame on you, I trusted you :'(

I also think that Gamma's lynch was weird, but hey, a win is a win