Open 738: Purgatory | LA FIN

[the worst]

also asking people to produced detailed reads puts them on the spot which is gr8 for getting AI content

[the worst]

so like for example fmpov

heaven: keyser
hell: volxen
heaven: tw
hell: lab/era
judgement day: {Ausuka + Lab/Era}

wins the game nearly every time
what are your thoughts on how we press on from here?

[volxen]

So I searched Dr. J's ISO for the "{" character and this was his only reads list:

there's a character limit of 3 million

I think it's 300,000 but still

It is, I can't count.

there's a character limit of 3 million, which I broke, by a lot.

asdfghjjkl;

what

Exactly.

Also, I'm not gonna bother doing catchup atm, since it took me two hours and was a bitch to post, so, while I'm here for 30ish min, ama.

Also, quick readslist:
{DrJ}
{Volxen, Eragon}
{

Irrel, Ausuka, TW

}
{} - Null
{Lab(?), Soze(?)}
{Creature}
{}

This was based on me reading back and my initial thoughts from it.
lmk if you want me to explain any.

-Kor

Dr. J put you, Ausuka, and Irrelephant at the same tier in his single reads list.

While Dr. J was alive, Irrelephant was consistent about putting both Dr. J and I at the same tier in his first two reads lists. In Irrelephant's first reads list he also put you in the same tier as Dr. J, and in his second reads list he put Ausuka at the same tier as Dr. J.

So how much stock do you put in your theory that scum would not put both of their partners in the same tier in their reads lists? Because if that's the case then you, Ausuka, and I are all very unlikely to be scum.

[the worst]

So how much stock do you put in your theory that scum would not put both of their partners in the same tier in their reads lists? Because if that's the case then you, Ausuka, and I are all very unlikely to be scum.

like 5% lmao
it's more an interesting wiki tell than anything I'd lean on

[volxen]

sorry dude I need you to find scum not towncase yourself

the { bracket tell is also a really broad tell and isn't like, something that's particularly reliable in practice. the moment scum know not to do it they start doing it etc. it's less common than putting all your buddies in different brackets but that absolutely doesn't mean I can afford to townread someone exclusively off their position in someone's read list

I'm markedly more interesting in hearing who you think reds here and how we use our last two mislynches. but while we're on the subject do you think there were exchanges between you and rel which are highly unlikely to come from scumbuddies?

I find it interesting that you would state that it's "pretty rare" when Keyser quoted Dr. J's reads list showing you in the same tier as Irrelephant, but when I show two reads lists from Irrelephant where I'm listed in the same tier as Dr. J it's meaningless? You don't get to have it both ways TW. Don't be hypocritical because I will call you out on it.

I mean either it's "pretty rare" for scum to list both of their partners in the same tier or it isn't. If isn't something that's reliable, then why did you even say that in response to Keyser quoting Dr. J's reads list showing you in the same tier as Irrelephant?

[volxen]

Why can't town!TW come up with any other explanation besides "this is scum!Volxen being coached by Irrelephant?"

[the worst]

volxen
you're flailing and chainsawing me to defend yourself
why should I ever townread this? I have an objective answer to why I think you're howling rn

[the worst]

slipped onto a pc

so at this point town's win condition is to correctly lynch town to heaven (stick with obvious town; we have exactly two heaven phases left which means two heavily-townread players gets us to judgement day even if we don't lynch scum).

scum's win condition is now one of two things:
1) if they're outside of the PoE, get themselves into heaven. if a wolf is outside the PoE it's literally Keyser and i'm ok with that being a town loss 99% of the time
2) if they're within the PoE, they need to look enough like town to survive until judgement day and hope like shit that they're not sent to hell. secondary agenda here is to throw shade at the more communally townread players.

your play right now is betraying an agenda. you are not interested in determining who a wolf is. you're interested in discrediting scumreads on you, positioning a more heavily townread player (me : D) as having malicious intentions, and trying to look town.

=> you're currently playing to a scum wincon.

hell 1 your posting was a lot closer to your town meta. that's either you organically being town or rel (who has a decent idea of what i look for from town!you) is coaching you; that's fine. rel was also pretty quick to feathersoft defend you on the basis of meta which as much as i agreed with it earlier in the game, is partner indicative. if ballsy.

heaven 1 you were pretty much fine

hell 2 you lurked hard.

and now here we are and you look exactly like a wolf who's in trouble

[the worst]

so if you're town and i'm misreading you, own the fact i am clearly town and am misreading you. take a step back and look at your play here and fill in the following form with some reasoning so we can get crackin' on winning this sucker

Heaven 2:

{player here}

Hell 3:

{player here}

Heaven 3:

{player here}

Hell 4:

{player here}

Judgement Day:

{player} vs. {player}


just swinging back to WW for a sec, if you can accept that you do look like a wolf rn it's okay to suggest yourself in the hell / judgement day brackets

[volxen]

slipped onto a pc

so at this point town's win condition is to correctly lynch town to heaven (stick with obvious town; we have exactly two heaven phases left which means two heavily-townread players gets us to judgement day even if we don't lynch scum).

scum's win condition is now one of two things:
1) if they're outside of the PoE, get themselves into heaven. if a wolf is outside the PoE it's literally Keyser and i'm ok with that being a town loss 99% of the time
2) if they're within the PoE, they need to look enough like town to survive until judgement day and hope like shit that they're not sent to hell. secondary agenda here is to throw shade at the more communally townread players.

your play right now is betraying an agenda. you are not interested in determining who a wolf is. you're interested in discrediting scumreads on you, positioning a more heavily townread player (me : D) as having malicious intentions, and trying to look town.

=> you're currently playing to a scum wincon.

hell 1 your posting was a lot closer to your town meta. that's either you organically being town or rel (who has a decent idea of what i look for from town!you) is coaching you; that's fine. rel was also pretty quick to feathersoft defend you on the basis of meta which as much as i agreed with it earlier in the game, is partner indicative. if ballsy.

heaven 1 you were pretty much fine

hell 2 you lurked hard.

and now here we are and you look exactly like a wolf who's in trouble

You aren't obvtown to me, and I know I'm town. So yeah, I don't agree with me being lynched in the next Hell phase and you being lynched in the next Heaven phase after this one. Fmpov, how is that me not playing to the town win condition? I know I'm town, and therefore don't want to be lynched during the Hell phase. I'm not convinced that you are town, and therefore don't want you to be lynched in the next Heaven phase. Why is that an unreasonable stance for town!Volxen to have?

We do agree on lynching Keyser in this Heaven phase. Besides me, who else would you be willing to lynch in the next Hell phase? And besides yourself, who else would you be willing to send in the next Heaven phase after this one?

[volxen]

so if you're town and i'm misreading you, own the fact i am clearly town and am misreading you. take a step back and look at your play here and fill in the following form with some reasoning so we can get crackin' on winning this sucker

Heaven 2:

{player here}

Hell 3:

{player here}

Heaven 3:

{player here}

Hell 4:

{player here}

Judgement Day:

{player} vs. {player}


just swinging back to WW for a sec, if you can accept that you do look like a wolf rn it's okay to suggest yourself in the hell / judgement day brackets

I'm not sure yet if this is literally day 1 of Newbie 1888 all over again and you are just misreading me, or if this is scum!TW. It does seem odd that you heavily townread me while Irrelephant was alive, but now that's hes been lynched and is confirmed scum you have a strong scumread of me that revolves around the theory that everything I've been doing in this game has been coached by Irrelephant. It seems like your scumread of me is contingent specifically on the idea that I am being coached on what to do by Irrelephant, as opposed to me making my own plays. At this point in time I don't think you should be immune from Hell.

And also, why does the coaching theory only apply to Irrelephant and not Dr. J? Sure I've never played with either of Korina or LCPL before, but they are pretty good at scum, and they would arguably be able to coach me just as Irrelephant could. I'm just not understanding how I went from "obvtown" to you to "he's scum being coached by Irrelephant". Would you be scumreading me if Irrelephant were still alive?

For Heaven 3 me or Eragon.

[volxen]

@TW, if I get lynched in the Hell phase and flip green, do you still think you deserve to be sent to Heaven in Heaven 3?

[volxen]

If I get lynched in the Hell phase, then TW absolutely should not be sent to Heaven in Heaven 3 upon seeing my green flip.

[the worst]

Your entire basis for even suggesting I'm scum is based on burden of proficiency... I'm actually thinking this might be too wolfy to be decisively wolf indicative. you were a lot less decisive in WW. tbh I'm fine with not being sent to heaven in the next heaven phase but I want a decent substitute.

but like... what's your solve?

[the worst]

you need to give a bracket of like 3 ot 4 players which contains the scum, all I can see you doing is shading me and buddying Keyser

I can see why this potentially comes from town!volx in like, ways? but overfocusing on this exchange just makes me want to lynch you more. who do we lynch in your stead? who goes to heaven in my stead?

[volxen]

Your entire basis for even suggesting I'm scum is based on burden of proficiency... I'm actually thinking this might be too wolfy to be decisively wolf indicative. you were a lot less decisive in WW. tbh I'm fine with not being sent to heaven in the next heaven phase but I want a decent substitute.

but like... what's your solve?

I feel like I need to figure your slot out, which is not necessarily easy. I've seen both your town game and and your scum game, but I'm still not sure about you. I mean you did push me and tunnel me pretty aggressively in Newbie 1888, so you tunneling me in and of itself is not necessarily AI for you. It's not so much you scumreading me in and of itself that's making me worried about your slot, it's that your scumread of me seems to be contingent on Irrelephant's red flip..... and the fact that me being scum was the only explanation that you were offering.

I think I should start with sorting your slot.... because you and I both have a history of misreading each other. I need to know if this is town!TW I am dealing with, so I'll start by looking through your ISO and interactions with Dr. J and Irrelephant.

Are you absolutely convinced my flip will help guarantee town wins? If I flip green during the next Hell phase, what then? Who do you lynch in the following Hell phase? When I flip green and your scumread of me is proven wrong, how do you move forward?

[the worst]

I mean part of my wincon is accounting for the possibility that any of my reads are wrong... basically except those I'm sending to heaven. we have that flexibility since we managed to nuke Relly's scum rump

[the worst]

skip over sorting me for now; let's just not heaven me today. we can sort each other in hell 3 pretty easily.

how do you feel about Eragon Ausuka and Labby?

[volxen]

skip over sorting me for now; let's just not heaven me today. we can sort each other in hell 3 pretty easily.

how do you feel about Eragon Ausuka and Labby?

OK, I'll start with those 3. I had Eragon and Keyser as strong townreads on day 2, but I'll take another look at Eragon. Then I'll look at Ausuka next and Labrat last.

[the worst]

perfect. I'll be here for a fair while yet.

[Keyser Söze]

Why can't town!TW come up with any other explanation besides "this is scum!Volxen being coached by Irrelephant?"

I do agree here with Volx - you’ve presented many reasons why Volx is town on D1-D3, but is all that now outweighed by your ‘coached by Irrellephant’ theory?


Perhaps go through each post you gave them town points...

[the worst]

KEYSER STOP PICKING ON ME I'M WORKING MY MAGIC

[Keyser Söze]

Everyone is coming under scrutiny today. Including me.

[the worst]

ye but I'm busy bullying volxen so he produces lots of content and we can tell his alignment :> so I can't really intricately case volxen

[Keyser Söze]

What was happening with LabRat btw?