A Story Revisited (Anything uPick): Day 6

[Nero Cain]

Well, I understand your paranoia. But actually, I'm just trying to get a better grasp on the game, and I do a lot better when I can talk through my thinking with someone I trust.

We already had a confirmed town in Steiner. Why didn't you try to talk to him earlier?

[Gamma Emerald]

Adelbert is awol wut

[Gamma Emerald]

Btw MEME MEN: how closely were you following the game during night 4?

[Nero Cain]

Adelbert is awol wut

The point was weeb, that Shoshin is trying to talk with Fire who is conftown. I'm just saying that we had a conftown before Fire and she never reached out to him. Yes, he prob site flaked and should be force replaced but his status doesn't make my question invalid.

[Gamma Emerald]

Okay then
Why the need to be condescending, normie?

[THE MEME MEN]

LH reviewed a bit after the flip. I started the night wanting to do Ari for the second parity action and LH said to do Nico instead and I thought that was fine too. We've both wanted something on NSG for a while.

(Not really sure I get the argument that she's strong town to people like Sho, but given that Nico looks a bit worse I'm willing to roll with it for now).

I personally didn't really do a big review, since I wasn't 100% sure we'd be alive given using our double vote for both Varsoon and Mastina. To be honest the start of this dayphase with our parity guilty and mastina dead is the first time I've actually cared about this game since early October.

-rh

[Gamma Emerald]

Ok so here’s why I asked
If you were engaged, don’t you think a better use for your role existed? A way to get a 100% certain read on someone?

[THE MEME MEN]

I mean, maybe. But not really. We already have two mechanical semi-clears and we wanted to lynch in {NSG, Nico} anyway. So {Same alignment} would have given us two guilties over one (although not 'confirmed guilty'), so the risk of getting {unaligned} and having to do some sorting seemed fine if we were wrong on one of the two. In retrospect, we might have played suboptimally, but I can't say I'm 100% sure I would actually have done it differently even now

-rh

[THE MEME MEN]

Gamma, do you have experience with NSG? I have heard the conventional wisdom is that if she is trying she is town and if she is not she is scum; do you feel like she has been trying over this game, and do you think that conventional wisdom is accurate for her?

-RH

[Vecna]

i don't know, i think i need more to be convinced. sell me on it?

Why would you be asking scum (FYPOV) to sell you on an idea? Or do you think Meme is lying?

[Vecna]

So Mr parity cop, why is there only 1 result? And how come you were unaware that there have been 4 nights so far?

Our ability only became available after someone fixed our pinball machine

we chose NSG+Nico because having a "same alignment" on both had the potential of giving us a second guilty if we flipped the first, this way we have to settle for a townclear after we flip red

-rh

Right, the pinball machine thing

[Gamma Emerald]

I mean, maybe. But not really. We already have two mechanical semi-clears and we wanted to lynch in {NSG, Nico} anyway. So {Same alignment} would have given us two guilties over one (although not 'confirmed guilty'), so the risk of getting {unaligned} and having to do some sorting seemed fine if we were wrong on one of the two. In retrospect, we might have played suboptimally, but I can't say I'm 100% sure I would actually have done it differently even now

-rh

So I left this vague on purpose to test you, don’t feel too good about your response. Now the FULL question: why didn’t you consider checking Fire/Adelbert and an unknown? I’d rather use that power as straight up alignment cop if I had the chance.
About NSG: apparently she is in town as town? Problem is, no one has ever told me anything beyond that so I have little to work with on the meta front. I might try to see if I can’t get to a reliable read rate on NSG by myself.

[Vecna]

Pork's strong town because I just played with him as scum and this is NOT his scum game. Not even close. As scum, he's blatantly pro-scum. He doesn't bus. He defends his partners blatantly and pushes lynches on town blatantly. He doesn't seem to care enough about the game as either alignment to actually try hiding his alignment as scum. He's also sort of trollish enough that he can actually get away with this as scum. But trust me, Pork is town. And anyone else who was in that recent scum game of Pork's (Gamma, NSG, Creature) can speak to this as well. If any of those three aren't townreading Pork (something to check), then I'd say there's a problem with one of those three before I ever suspect Pork here.

As for Lady Angel, I think her play around Mastina and analysis of the wagon afterwards feels very townie. I didn't like her play earlier in the game, but there's actually a lot of depth to her thought process that I don't think is easy for scum to fake. I don't know her that well, but my impression is that she wouldn't be strong enough to fake this level of thought as scum. I could be wrong on her, though. My weakest townread by far.

I strongly disagree with all reasoning provided here on Porkens btw, and in -my- last scumgame with Porkens he played exactly as how he has been playing this game.

Check the autobots vs Dinobots game. Im surprised Creature hasnt been bringing this up. But then again, this creature role just feels all kinds of made up, in a scum strategy kind of way.

[Vecna]

What are your reads on the other players?

i pretty much agree with all ur other townreads.

kind of think ari is scum here also. he keeps doing his cheerful happy face but i think he is just trying his best to keep it what he thinks is natural which makes it look awkward.

Also sort of agree on this. This game has way too many scummy slots.

[Vecna]

I also think the majority of scum bussed Mastina, since they needed her out of the game to have any fighting chance at winning this. Most the players who weren't voting Mastina are likely town.

Like, the gladiate was resolved in such a fast manner that I really wouldnt stoop so dumb as try to do vote analysis on it in such a manner.

Id say im pretty damn active this game, but I wasnt around for any of it.

[Vecna]

I'd lynch Meme before I lynched NSG.

Can you explain this strong read on NSG some more?

[Vecna]

I'm a protective role, actually. A bodyguard.

And this matters how?

I dunno if it matters. But upon reflection, I think the right play as bodyguard is to claim it. Because I think it messes with scum's night actions in a way that benefits town.

Theres apparently a roleblocker out there though.

I feel like im pretty damn behind on all the claims by now. There is such a shitton of stuff floating around there.

Jingle, can you do some more busywork, and put all these claims in a nice thingy maybe?

[Vecna]

I also heavily doubt that town has three protective roles and would advise looking in there after we sort the Meme Men/Nico/NSG situation out.

Why?

So far, all we've seen from scum is a role that is blatantly only useful for town and a role that forces a lynch, which backfired. While this can obviously be proven false the more scum roles we've seen, none of the claimed roles or roles we've heard about so far really would balance out town having three protective roles yet.

I think you are vastly underestimating that role that Varsoon had when used properly.

[Vecna]

I also heavily doubt that town has three protective roles and would advise looking in there after we sort the Meme Men/Nico/NSG situation out.

Why?

So far, all we've seen from scum is a role that is blatantly only useful for town and a role that forces a lynch, which backfired. While this can obviously be proven false the more scum roles we've seen, none of the claimed roles or roles we've heard about so far really would balance out town having three protective roles yet.

For your point on the protectives, dont forget all of them have drawbacks.

My role was a trap that was supposed to be lynched on D1 (and almost was).

The bodyguard doesnt actually save a town from dying since it dies itself

The loud babysitter allows scum to do a double kill if it ever visits scum (or have the weird outcome of killing themselves along with the babysitter).

But ill happily agree we shouldnt automatically assume theyre all town.

[Gamma Emerald]

I also heavily doubt that town has three protective roles and would advise looking in there after we sort the Meme Men/Nico/NSG situation out.

Why?

So far, all we've seen from scum is a role that is blatantly only useful for town and a role that forces a lynch, which backfired. While this can obviously be proven false the more scum roles we've seen, none of the claimed roles or roles we've heard about so far really would balance out town having three protective roles yet.

For your point on the protectives, dont forget all of them have drawbacks.

My role was a trap that was supposed to be lynched on D1 (and almost was).

The bodyguard doesnt actually save a town from dying since it dies itself

The loud babysitter

allows scum to do a double kill if it ever visits scum

(or have the weird outcome of killing themselves along with the babysitter).

But ill happily agree we shouldnt automatically assume theyre all town.

Huh???
It looks like you mixed up something but the stuff in parentheses says otherwise. Wtf is the meaning of the bolded?

[Vecna]

I mean, maybe. But not really. We already have two mechanical semi-clears and we wanted to lynch in {NSG, Nico} anyway. So {Same alignment} would have given us two guilties over one (although not 'confirmed guilty'), so the risk of getting {unaligned} and having to do some sorting seemed fine if we were wrong on one of the two. In retrospect, we might have played suboptimally, but I can't say I'm 100% sure I would actually have done it differently even now

-rh

The question is a trap, your play was obviously optimal.

[Vecna]

Gamma, do you have experience with NSG? I have heard the conventional wisdom is that if she is trying she is town and if she is not she is scum; do you feel like she has been trying over this game, and do you think that conventional wisdom is accurate for her?

-RH

This conventional wisdom is bullcrap, she didnt really do much the last two games I was in with her, and she flipped town in both as well.

I dont really think NSG is the type of player that will ever be easy to read, no real meta to use and her play always seems eerily similar (to me).

[Vecna]

I also heavily doubt that town has three protective roles and would advise looking in there after we sort the Meme Men/Nico/NSG situation out.

Why?

So far, all we've seen from scum is a role that is blatantly only useful for town and a role that forces a lynch, which backfired. While this can obviously be proven false the more scum roles we've seen, none of the claimed roles or roles we've heard about so far really would balance out town having three protective roles yet.

For your point on the protectives, dont forget all of them have drawbacks.

My role was a trap that was supposed to be lynched on D1 (and almost was).

The bodyguard doesnt actually save a town from dying since it dies itself

The loud babysitter

allows scum to do a double kill if it ever visits scum

(or have the weird outcome of killing themselves along with the babysitter).

But ill happily agree we shouldnt automatically assume theyre all town.

Huh???
It looks like you mixed up something but the stuff in parentheses says otherwise. Wtf is the meaning of the bolded?

If scum nightkills the babysitter, it kills both the babysitter and the baby. If the babysitter ever visits scum, due to the loud modifier, the scum can kill her + her baby the next night.

[Gamma Emerald]

Optimal how?
MEME MEN target 2 unknowns: we get a result that requires one to flip to be useful, and allows scum to snipe any town that are cleared by the result in the next night before town gets the boon of their guidance
MEME MEN targets a known and unknown: we get a result that is foolproof and has instant meaning, and let’s a town confirmed by this contribute for that day without being suspected

[Gamma Emerald]

I also heavily doubt that town has three protective roles and would advise looking in there after we sort the Meme Men/Nico/NSG situation out.

Why?

So far, all we've seen from scum is a role that is blatantly only useful for town and a role that forces a lynch, which backfired. While this can obviously be proven false the more scum roles we've seen, none of the claimed roles or roles we've heard about so far really would balance out town having three protective roles yet.

For your point on the protectives, dont forget all of them have drawbacks.

My role was a trap that was supposed to be lynched on D1 (and almost was).

The bodyguard doesnt actually save a town from dying since it dies itself

The loud babysitter

allows scum to do a double kill if it ever visits scum

(or have the weird outcome of killing themselves along with the babysitter).

But ill happily agree we shouldnt automatically assume theyre all town.

Huh???
It looks like you mixed up something but the stuff in parentheses says otherwise. Wtf is the meaning of the bolded?

If scum nightkills the babysitter, it kills both the babysitter and the baby. If the babysitter ever visits scum, due to the loud modifier, the scum can kill her + her baby the next night.

That’s not bad thinking, but it’s wrong. Why would Jingle play around it like he did if the person who did it was outright stated? I assume that assumption of the babysitter’s exact ID being revealed is influencing your analysis.