Town should never quickhammer

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Post Post #0  (isolation #0)  » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:09 am

(Note: The topic title has been changed, it was initially "Quickhammering should be a bannable offence")

I have enough of games being destroyed by quickhammering. Sorry but I feel the need for a call for a ban on these.

First of all, I should define quickhammering. What I call quickhammering is hammering with no prior warning. It doesn't necessarily mean an intent to hammer, but can also include things like people on the wagon calling for a hammer. Also a chance for the hammeree to react to the intent must be given: an intent followed by a hammer 5 minutes later is still quickhammering.

Secondly, I don't think quickhammering is bad in all situations. I certainly don't have a problem with scum quickhammering to secure a win in LyLo, and in certain situations town can also quickhammer to secure a win. It may be necessary to quickhammer at deadline to avoid a No Lynch. Finally, sometimes accidents do happen and while this still hurts the game, it isn't entirely the player's fault.

But in normal situations, quickhammers should be viewed as a form of trolling. Why? This will be unexpected to many players. There will be people who still want to discuss things. This is especially true for the lynchee, who should be always given the final chance to say things like a claim and final reads in any situation, but also applies for people who are likely to be nightkilled. Overall, this decreases the chances for people to play the game altogether, which is really cheating the players and the mod of part of a game experience.

Here is an extreme example of the effects of quickhammering. Someone decided it'll be funny to randomly hammer a guy at L-1 early game. It turned out the guy he hammered was a key power role to the game which unlocked important information for mechanics to the game, and after that most people started to become apathetic to the game. This led to the game being player abandoned as a result. So not only were the players robbed of a fun game, the mod's effort into preparing the game was wasted, which is a huge insult to players and the mod.

"But if I don't quickhammer, people will start unvoting and I will not be able to lynch them again"
This sounds like you have an ego problem. If you want to lynch him use your voice to convince the crowds, and if you are unable to restart the wagon you probably shouldn't deserve to lynch them anyway.

tl;dr Quickhammering is a form of trolling and ruins games, and needs to be looked into as an offence.
Last edited by BulletNLynchproof on Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Post #22  (isolation #1)  » Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:54 pm

It’s not just accidental quickhammers though. A lot of people like to quickhammer now just for the lolz.
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Post Post #46  (isolation #2)  » Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:00 am

I have been thinking of some anti-quickhammer voting mechanics myself.

One of them is, as said, that there is a grace period where people can unvote after the hammer to cancel the lynch.

There's another one which I have thought of and am polishing
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Post Post #75  (isolation #3)  » Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:30 am

In post 74, Zachrulez wrote:Sure, but my philosophy has been not to depend on power roles to win games. It's really easy to allow scum to get away with fakeclaims when you take that approach.

Scum being able to fakeclaim is not an excuse for not giving players a chance to claim
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Post Post #77  (isolation #4)  » Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:03 am

In post 76, Irrelephant11 wrote:There are times where a townie quickhammering another player is pro-town.

Give some examples because I'm not convinced they exist
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Post Post #82  (isolation #5)  » Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:46 pm

In post 78, Irrelephant11 wrote:https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=10530755#p10530755

Just because the Townie randomly quickhammered scum there, mean that the quick hammer was pro-town
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Post Post #83  (isolation #6)  » Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:59 pm

Also what’s up with the terrible arguments that “If I let him defend himself, he may escape the lynch”?

Like that is hugely egoistic play that only comes from a player who is deathtunnelled on someone and I seriously cannot accept that as a valid argument.

Isn’t the reason that you let players defend themselves because you might be wrong on them? And if you are not convinced by their defence, just lynch them anyway?
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Post Post #91  (isolation #7)  » Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:50 am

I have to admit that I was on a rage when I made the topic, and I have changed the topic title to something more in the direction of what I want to discuss.
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Post Post #92  (isolation #8)  » Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:59 am

But yeah I still really hate quickhammers

Btw I don't think town should never quickhammer, like in Irrelephants example yeah town should get that Mafia Dayvig out of play ASAP. I just don't want to make the title "Town should almost never quickhammer" or the like, because people will think that their excuses for quickhammering are legit when they aren't.

I think the problems with quickhammering are really similar to the ones with fakeclaiming as town: sometimes it works out and wins the game for town, but most of the time it doesn't, and when it doesn't everyone gets mad at you. But now I agree that such trash play doesn't need to get a site ban, it's just a bad and selfish play but is a way of playing the game.

The only quickhammers that need to be banned are the ones that are trolling, like the one I linked in the OP. The problem isn't that it was a quickhammer but that quickhammer was a form of trolling.
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Post Post #93  (isolation #9)  » Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:06 am

In post 7, BBmolla wrote:What if a dude saw a 100% scumtell for that player and used it to hammer the player before he argued his way out of the wagon?

Like this is another terrible argument in the thread. Claiming you have a 100% scumtell for a player is a fallacy in the first place because statistically there is no such thing as a 100% scumtell.

I quote this in particular because I know many people believe they have 100% scumtells against other players or are just hugely egoistic.
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